Re: [AFMUG] Interesting (to me)

[Trey Scarborough]

Nothing like some youtubers uneducated emotional opinion and oh you can 
save by using my code...


On 5/6/24 12:59 PM, Robert wrote:
I've watched her for years and she has, occasionally, some good 
stuff.  But on the whole she has gotten so into promoting what she was 
paid for and in a few cases gotten caught promoting bad products.


 She major league jumped on board a cell internet reseller and 
promoted a really dishonest company because she didn't wait long 
enough for the bad to come out.  Then claimed innocence...


 Well here she was again.  T-Mobile just chomped down on those people 
using T-mobile home service away from home.   If you want to do what 
she is promoting, it's now $160/month


 On _any_ cellular internet service, I say wait 1.5 years to find out 
if the provider is really going to support it or is it a bait and 
switch.   ATT did exactly that 4 years ago, even promoting the service 
with mobile users just to pull it all away after usage became too high 
in just over a year.


On 5/6/24 10:16 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

https://youtu.be/XcofyNWDyao?si=0ulY_LiFcb2HlnaY




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Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees

[Trey Scarborough]

I have always found one of the best ways is to provide better 
benifits/perks. As others have said 401k match is a good one, but if 
that's not something most your employees would be interested in. Fully 
paid health insurance can be one, also send them to training or a 
tradeshow. Even welders like to go to a tradeshow and gawk at all the 
new equipment...


One of the best I found was catered lunches. We would have a day or two 
a week we would bring in food from a good restaurant or order some good 
steaks and grill them. It was also good as it got everyone together.


Another thing is give them a budget to go and buy whatever 
tools/equipment/etc that you can write off and let them keep it 
personally. Works great for labor workers and IT staff. The more 
mechanical inclined typically went out and buy nice tools and the others 
typically would get a laptop, or build a gaming rig.



On 1/28/24 12:16 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
My latest pivot a couple of years ago to microtrenching blades, adding 
grout machines, then microtrenching saw attachments and now to a 
specialized type of vacuum excavator has gone extremely well.  Almost 
no software involved.  Just a little in a motion control PCB in the 
grout machine to control the hydrostatic transmission.  This is by far 
my most profitable season I have ever had in 50 years of running some 
kind of hustle.  And those years of the stinger and other related 
antennas and hardware were not bad at all.  I am a bit more confident 
that these new “durable products” have more legs than the antennas 
that were radio specific.
But having been through wax and wane of business, economy and product 
cycles for many decades, I am always reticent to ratchet up pay.  I do 
give bonuses.  I will always live in fear of not meeting payroll.  
Only happened once about 30 years ago, but that is a bad deal.  And 
actually nobody was unpaid but I had to layoff everyone.  But I digress.
What would y’all suggest as a way to reward employees when things are 
going well?  I give COLA plus modest merit increases every 6 months.  
I could give substantial merit increases but that plays into my phobia 
of things getting tight again.  Maybe that is totally unfounded.  I 
know when things started going well for Henry Ford he doubled pay and 
things got even better for him.
I would like to do bonuses based on my bottom line income (I think), 
but how to distribute that evenly?  Should everyone get the same 
amount?  And how to relate that the size of the bonus is tied directly 
to how well the company is doing?  Or should I just give really nice 
raises this go around?  Or both?  I guess if things slow down we can 
always trim staff or let attrition do it for us.  I think you all can 
understand the reluctance to give raises as it is a one way street.  
You really cannot cut pay.
I want employees to prosper and do better personally.  I wonder if my 
fears are justified.  I know some of you have worked for large 
companies at certain points in your life, how did they accomplish 
this.  I know some of you have really prospered with your WISP/ISP, 
curious how you approached the whole sharing the wealth thing.

Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com
www.terabitnetworks.com

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Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

[Trey Scarborough]

Depends on your definition or "Low-Cost"...


Ufispace S9510-28DC is a well priced switch that can do 400G Openzr.

Juniper ACX7100, but you will need to buy there optics or they charge 
you a license fee for using Openzr.


Nokia 7250 IXR-e2


Yes they should work with just about any passive system. They supposedly 
work on 50ghz channels, but Ive never tried, and I no it limits your 
speeds down to 100 or 200g. I have used it with 75ghz and 100ghz 
passive  systems. Most have around a 28db link budget so probably a 
little better than any 80k 10G solutions you are currently using. Also 
its a coherent signal so you don't have to worry about dispersion.




On 1/26/24 8:17 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

What are some low-cost switches that support the 400G OpenZR optics?

Can you get 400G OpenZR optics in a passive mux-friendly channel plan?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
----
*From: *"Trey Scarborough" 
*To: *af@af.afmug.com
*Sent: *Thursday, January 25, 2024 5:00:58 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

Ive done a lot of these 100G 80k links and its not likely dispersion 
causing your problem. Its more likely the opposite. If you have 
segments of NZ fiber "Non-zero dispersion-shifted fiber" you can have 
issues. After looking at your OTDR it looks to be a mix of different 
fiber types thats how you get the negative loss splices. If it is a 
mix of NZ and smf28 fiber your probably not going to be able to get it 
to work. The NZ fiber causes issues with the 1200-1300 signals on 
those optics. I have had spans of 50k that 80k optics would not work 
on due to this. I would have them run an OTDR at 1310 and see what it 
shows you are likely to get a very different looking result. If that's 
the case there aren't too many good options. Your best is if your 
switch has 400g ports get some OpenZR 400G optics and use them. 
Surprisingly that aren't incredibly more expensive than the 100G 80ks.


I would have the fiber provider give you a 1310 OTDR and also request 
fiber type information for the span. We build these things all the 
time so if you need some help feel free to email me and I can see 
about finding a solution that will work for you.


On 1/24/24 6:40 PM, Zach Underwood wrote:

Ok we got the report back from the fiber supplier. This is new to
me so anyone can offer insight into it?

PDF

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KeIuWHFsiKZHxcmpPiY8PX_-PABl55Sz/view?usp=sharing


On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 6:00 PM Daniel Pautz via AF
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

Dispersion compensation module -
https://www.fs.com/products/65783.html

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2024 3:53 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

I spent a few minutes searching on the term DCM and came up
with “chirped fiber Bragg grating”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_Bragg_grating

OK, I’m out of my depth now.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Daniel Pautz
via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2024 4:40 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Cc:* Daniel Pautz mailto:d...@webnx.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

Perhaps pick up a used cheap DCM and see if it helps, 
adjustable  preferred if not as close to the fiber distance.  
Our newest 100G dwdm build (dozen 100G optics) very much
needed a DCM on it.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2024 3:36 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

Gotta think of the Fourier series of the pulse.  Yes group
velocities or group delay of the whole enchalada.  It is all
kinda the same thing.  They were doing some kind of soliton
   

Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

[Trey Scarborough]

you can bond 4x25g dwdm optics, but you would need amps and filters and 
eveything it would probably come out to more than a couple openzr400G 
optics. Most are good to 120k bare fiber. If you don't have 400g ports 
you can always use a 4x100 muxponder.



4k for 100g 80k optics isn't a bad price unless your buying 100s of them.

On 1/26/2024 6:03 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:

On Friday, January 26, 2024 Chuck McCown wrote:

Could he bond dwm multiples at lower rates?

   Yes. Needs a muxponder or do a breakout at both ends to do it transparently. 
Just bonding the links is obviously also an option.

On Tuesday, January 23, 2024 Zach Underwood wrote:

My sample size is small due to the optices costing $4k each

   My suggestion is that you immediately change suppliers at prices like that.

   FYI, I never got the original post to the list. Is the list somehow broken? 
It's been awfully quiet lately in either case.


- Jared




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Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

[Trey Scarborough]

Ive done a lot of these 100G 80k links and its not likely dispersion 
causing your problem. Its more likely the opposite. If you have segments 
of NZ fiber "Non-zero dispersion-shifted fiber" you can have issues. 
After looking at your OTDR it looks to be a mix of different fiber types 
thats how you get the negative loss splices. If it is a mix of NZ and 
smf28 fiber your probably not going to be able to get it to work. The NZ 
fiber causes issues with the 1200-1300 signals on those optics. I have 
had spans of 50k that 80k optics would not work on due to this. I would 
have them run an OTDR at 1310 and see what it shows you are likely to 
get a very different looking result. If that's the case there aren't too 
many good options. Your best is if your switch has 400g ports get some 
OpenZR 400G optics and use them. Surprisingly that aren't incredibly 
more expensive than the 100G 80ks.


I would have the fiber provider give you a 1310 OTDR and also request 
fiber type information for the span. We build these things all the time 
so if you need some help feel free to email me and I can see about 
finding a solution that will work for you.


On 1/24/24 6:40 PM, Zach Underwood wrote:
Ok we got the report back from the fiber supplier. This is new to me 
so anyone can offer insight into it?


PDF 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KeIuWHFsiKZHxcmpPiY8PX_-PABl55Sz/view?usp=sharing 



On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 6:00 PM Daniel Pautz via AF > wrote:


Dispersion compensation module -
https://www.fs.com/products/65783.html

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2024 3:53 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

I spent a few minutes searching on the term DCM and came up with
“chirped fiber Bragg grating”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_Bragg_grating

OK, I’m out of my depth now.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Daniel Pautz via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2024 4:40 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Cc:* Daniel Pautz mailto:d...@webnx.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

Perhaps pick up a used cheap DCM and see if it helps, adjustable 
preferred if not as close to the fiber distance.   Our newest 100G
dwdm build (dozen 100G optics) very much needed a DCM on it.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2024 3:36 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

Gotta think of the Fourier series of the pulse.  Yes group
velocities or group delay of the whole enchalada.  It is all kinda
the same thing. They were doing some kind of soliton fiber
development.  Haven’t heard much for some time about that.  No
idea how frequency pure/coherent the tx is.  I imagine phase
coherency is a big deal.

*From:*Ken Hohhof

*Sent:*Wednesday, January 24, 2024 4:12 PM

*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

Looks like different wavelengths have different group velocities,
so compensation is possible (but probably not cheap?).

Is this because the transmitter doesn’t generate literally a
single wavelength?  Or is this a WDM issue?  Chuck says the pulses
get smeared out in time, that sounds like the first one.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2024 3:56 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

Yeah, the pulses tend to get smeared out in time if there is too
much dispersion. Similar to trying to use too high level of QAM
with SNR issues.

*From:*Josh Luthman

*Sent:*Wednesday, January 24, 2024 12:26 PM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

Even if the RX level is good?

> rx was within 0.3dBm on all 4 lanes on both sides

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 1:22 PM Daniel Pautz via AF
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

Yeah makes me think the two paths have different loss.   We
have had that on mirrored paths, or even single paths with
crappy splices on one of the strands.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2024 11:12 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

Re: [AFMUG] WDM transceivers

[Trey Scarborough]

Yes it will work just need to make sure your not on one of the DWDM 
channels towards the edge of the filter. It will more than likely work 
just they tend to have more loss. Choose a channel in the middle for 
best results. Its actually the least expensive way of adding WDM into a 
network. CWDM filters are typically cheaper than DWDM and DWDM optics 
are less expensive than WDM because there more widely used.


Optical filters are just like RF filters as long as you are operating in 
the range of the filters channel it will work. You just have to be 
careful about power levels and adjacent channel interference as WDM 
optics tend to have highr TX power and less sensitive receivers.


Trey

On 12/20/23 4:36 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:


Dumb question of the week:

Could I run a pair of DWDM transceivers through a CWDM multiplexer and 
expect it to work?  I’d only be using a small slice of the channel, 
but if the DWDM wavelength is encompassed by the larger CWDM 
wavelength then that light should still reach the intended 
destination, right?



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Re: [AFMUG] RedHawk-P250i-Solid-Oxide-Fuel-Cells-GEN4-WEB.pdf

[Trey Scarborough]

One of the models does 250, it also states and/or I wonder which it is 
and or or.


my question more so is what are you going to do with only 250w. Thats 
really not much to power anything and charge batteries. 1/4lb an hr for 
250 watts. I really don't do well with measuring propane, but I would 
think a standard generator is probably more efficient.



On 12/11/23 11:54 PM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:

What are you supposed to do with this when it only lasts 10 start/stop cycles? 
Even 300 cycles isn't that much.


- Jared


Sent: Monday, December 11, 2023 at 5:17 PM
From: "Chuck McCown via AF" 
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: [AFMUG] RedHawk-P250i-Solid-Oxide-Fuel-Cells-GEN4-WEB.pdf

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Re: [AFMUG] dumb OTDR question

[Trey Scarborough]

As Adam originally wrote "Attached trace is a splitter"

On 9/29/23 2:25 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Probably not a splitter.  It gets very confused shooting past it (both 
our cheap China & the demo Veex).


On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 3:24 PM Trey Scarborough <mailto:t...@3dsc.co>> wrote:


Could be a bad splice, but if it is a splitter it could just be an
artifact of that. It all depends on the type of splitter you are
using and what wavelength the OTDR is. It also depends what is on
the other ends of the splitter. If that is a splitter with nothing
spliced to one of the ends you  can get a reflection off of a dead
end.

On 9/28/23 8:32 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Can you have return loss (i.e. reflections) on bad fusion splices?

Attached trace is a splitter showing return loss.  It's supposed
to be fusion spliced, not connectorized.  There are several of
these on this project.  Trying to figure out if contractor snuck
in some incorrect parts or if he's got issues with his fusion
splicer.  I'd assume it's bad splices, but maybe coincidentally
the reflectance just happens to be about right for UPC connectors.

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Re: [AFMUG] dumb OTDR question

[Trey Scarborough]

Could be a bad splice, but if it is a splitter it could just be an 
artifact of that. It all depends on the type of splitter you are using 
and what wavelength the OTDR is. It also depends what is on the other 
ends of the splitter. If that is a splitter with nothing spliced to one 
of the ends you  can get a reflection off of a dead end.


On 9/28/23 8:32 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Can you have return loss (i.e. reflections) on bad fusion splices?

Attached trace is a splitter showing return loss.  It's supposed to be 
fusion spliced, not connectorized.  There are several of these on this 
project.  Trying to figure out if contractor snuck in some incorrect 
parts or if he's got issues with his fusion splicer.  I'd assume it's 
bad splices, but maybe coincidentally the reflectance just happens to 
be about right for UPC connectors.


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Re: [AFMUG] OTU4 equipment?

[Trey Scarborough]

TJ,

   The big issue with what I am reading from you is that the carrier is 
going to hand you an OTU4 with the waves muxed on to it. Your best luck 
would be to use the same equipment they are using on the other end. At 
the very least you need to know what it is and what timeslot 
configuration it uses to make certain what you are using is compatible. 
Not all equipment uses the same standard. Your best luck would be the 
ribbon or the ciena more than likely. Getting ciena is hard right now so 
pricing can be steep even for grey market gear. Id say ballpark 
greymarket for a 7 slot chassis and cards 10-15k.


Least expensive way would be if you could convince them to hand them to 
you as colored channels on a passive MUX. I haven't had too much luck 
with that except with carriers I have a people I know in the engineering 
departments.



Trey


On 9/12/23 2:37 PM, TJ Trout wrote:

Trey,

Any sense on the least expensive way to do it? Even a ballpark?

Tnx,

TJ

On Tue, Sep 12, 2023 at 12:17 PM Trey Scarborough <mailto:t...@3dsc.co>> wrote:


Its pretty easy however most Ethernet switches won't accept OTU4.
Some exceptions like nokia 7250 IXR-10/6. However just about every
DWDM vendor has hardware that will do it.  I Don't think
fiberstore has 100G muxponders.

Ribbon - 9904X and 9608D
ciena 6500 with a 100g transport and 10x 10g card
ekinops with a pm_100G-agg card


On 9/9/23 10:56 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com
<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:



https://www.fs.com/c/100g-qsfp28-1159?c_site=community_ctype=knowledge_from=wordlink_cat=BMCS220033-100G_Modules-Wiki_rel=21493&_gl=1%2aqf87kv%2a_gcl_au%2aMjIyODM1NzExLjE2OTI2Mjc0OTk.

I haven’t done it….but my impression is a dual mode QSFP28 such
as the above can connect OTU4 to an ethernet switch.  There are
cheaper ones out there than FS.  There’s now a Mikrotik with
QSFP28 ports…..and probably other low cost vendors are getting
into it as well.

So I believe you could get one of these dual mode transceivers
into a switch or router of choice and then use SFP+ for your 10g
paths.

Again, haven’t actually encountered OTU4 in the wild, I hope some
smart guy will correct me if I’m mistaken.

-Adam

*From:* AF 
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
*Sent:* Friday, September 08, 2023 11:24 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OTU4 equipment?

What are some of the more 'inexpensive' ways to break a OTU4
carrier down to multiple 10g ethernet? Looking at aggregating a
bunch of 10g waves back to our DC on a single XC using OTU4
provided by the carrier?

TJ


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--
Thank you,

TJ Trout
Volt Broadband
209.480.3122 Cell

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Re: [AFMUG] OTU4 equipment?

[Trey Scarborough]

Its pretty easy however most Ethernet switches won't accept OTU4. Some 
exceptions like nokia 7250 IXR-10/6. However just about every DWDM 
vendor has hardware that will do it.  I Don't think fiberstore has 100G 
muxponders.


Ribbon - 9904X and 9608D
ciena 6500 with a 100g transport and 10x 10g card
ekinops with a pm_100G-agg card


On 9/9/23 10:56 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:


https://www.fs.com/c/100g-qsfp28-1159?c_site=community_ctype=knowledge_from=wordlink_cat=BMCS220033-100G_Modules-Wiki_rel=21493&_gl=1%2aqf87kv%2a_gcl_au%2aMjIyODM1NzExLjE2OTI2Mjc0OTk.

I haven’t done it….but my impression is a dual mode QSFP28 such as the 
above can connect OTU4 to an ethernet switch.  There are cheaper ones 
out there than FS. There’s now a Mikrotik with QSFP28 ports…..and 
probably other low cost vendors are getting into it as well.


So I believe you could get one of these dual mode transceivers into a 
switch or router of choice and then use SFP+ for your 10g paths.


Again, haven’t actually encountered OTU4 in the wild, I hope some 
smart guy will correct me if I’m mistaken.


-Adam

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
*Sent:* Friday, September 08, 2023 11:24 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OTU4 equipment?

What are some of the more 'inexpensive' ways to break a OTU4 carrier 
down to multiple 10g ethernet? Looking at aggregating a bunch of 10g 
waves back to our DC on a single XC using OTU4 provided by the carrier?


TJ


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Re: [AFMUG] Are you reliant on searching?

[Trey Scarborough]

Hey I loose my mouse all the time too, but I'm going to go with He isn't 
using 2+ computers on multiple 4k displays.


Its the one thing I wish Synergy would come with a feature of a hot key 
to find what monitor my pointer is on and some idea general area. It 
would be nice if there was a hotkey that would turn the screen your on 
with a red tint and leave a couple inch round circle where the pointer 
is. I find myself clicking and then doing a couple alt tabs to find my 
mouse.


On 8/1/23 9:13 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I guess I'm just becoming a curmudgeon.  Just watching him do things, 
I'm like 'It's 2 clicks to get to the setting you want' instead, he 
clicks the search button, has to move to the keyboard to type, then 
back to the mouse to select the setting it's returned.  I guess that's 
better than watching the boss who continually loses his mouse on the 
screen and can't figure out where he's clicking.


On 7/31/2023 8:37 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:


My windows search feature has also been periodically crashing.  
Having to use start menu.  Wish they would fix w an update.


- Reply message -
From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" 
Subject: [AFMUG] Are you reliant on searching?
Date: Mon, Jul 31, 2023 5:46 PM

A few weeks ago the Windows search box was broken for me, but I was in the
middle of something where I couldn't restart my computer.  That was the
first time I'd used the Start Menu to open applications in 4 or 5 years.  I
only use Start to find the "shutdown" button.  Yes, it's faster to search by
the name of the application than to click through the Start Menu for it.  I
also use it for the Control Panel items I open most often.  For example I
start typing "ethernet" and then click "ethernet settings" as soon as it
appears and I type "device" and click on "device manager".

I don't generally search for settings in a device.  Maybe I'll try it.




-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2023 4:38 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Are you reliant on searching?

We've got a new employee in his 20's.  He never browses for programs off his
start menu, but uses the windows search box for everything.

Anything that has a search box, he types into that.  I didn't even know that
the Grandstream UCM's had a search function, but he only uses that to find
settings to change.  Is this normal behavior now? Is it actually faster?

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Re: [AFMUG] Solar

[Trey Scarborough]

Wow I'm going to have to check these guys out there just down the street 
from me. I actually almost moved in to that complex when I was looking 
for my new office.


On 7/31/23 6:28 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Beene Brothers Ventures LLC
2090 Fm157 Mansfield, TX 76063 US
beenebrothe...@gmail.com
https://beenebrothers.com

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 31, 2023, at 5:26 PM, Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
 wrote:



Not bad. Where did you order from?

Thanks,
Jim



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22+ 5G, an AT 5G smartphone



 Original message 
From: Chuck McCown via AF 
Date: 7/31/23 6:20 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: [AFMUG] Solar

Just bought a pallet of new 490 watt panels for 40 cents per watt.

Sent from my iPhone


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Re: [AFMUG] Are you reliant on searching?

[Trey Scarborough]

I run most of my machines on MX linux and I do the same thing. Most 
things I frequent are pined on my task bar, and anything else is 
super/windows key is bound to a search bar. If not that I just run the 
program from a terminal window type the first part and tab complete. I 
don't actually use the mouse that much at all.


On 7/31/23 3:38 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
We've got a new employee in his 20's.  He never browses for programs 
off his start menu, but uses the windows search box for everything.


Anything that has a search box, he types into that.  I didn't even 
know that the Grandstream UCM's had a search function, but he only 
uses that to find settings to change.  Is this normal behavior now? Is 
it actually faster?




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Re: [AFMUG] wispa

[Trey Scarborough]

What I don't get is who is this the event coordinator company or is 
someone going out and buying spots and reselling them. How do they 
proffit off of this spam or is it a scam?


I do know that unfortunately the convention industry is just as bad as 
credit card companies with selling your information. Every vendor up and 
down the chain Cvent, GES, Freeman, ChirpE, etc all collect and sell 
your data and/or the organizations as well. You agree to it when you 
sign up as the organization hosting the event and by the individual 
attendee. It makes me wish you could generate a virtual identity for 
attending trade shows. Just like you do with credit cards for suspect 
online orders.


On 7/14/2023 10:06 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

I wonder if wispa sanctions this spam?
*From:* Alicia Paul
*Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2023 8:59 AM
*To:* sa...@go-mtc.com
*Subject:* Go-Mtc

Hi,

Just wanted to do a quick follow-up on my below email.

Please review my below email and let me know your interest.

May I send quote/pricing details for decision-making?

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Alicia



*From:*Alicia Paul
*Sent: *Thursdy, July 13, 2023, 10:53 AM
*To:* sa...@go-mtc.com
*Subject:* Go-Mtc


Hi,

We are happy to let you know that the pre-registered attendance list 
for the “WISPAPALOOZA 2023” is now available to buy at the best 
possible price.


Attendees: WISP Industry Professionals | Industry Experts | 
Decision-Makers in the ISP Industry | Service Providers | Leading 
Suppliers in the Fixed Wireless Internet Industry and many more…


Please let me know your views, so that I can share the counts and 
pricing details.


I look forward to your response.

Regards,
Alicia Paul | Event Database Coordinator.

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[AFMUG] Juniper Help

[Trey Scarborough]

Hey anyone here ever configure a Juniper MX to do a dhcp relay with /32 
address assignments using an unnumbered Ethernet interface. If so you 
have an example configuration and is this something that you can only do 
if you are running BNG. I have done this on cisco, nokia, and mikrotik, 
but never on a juniper and cant seem to find any documentation on how to.



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Re: [AFMUG] Air vac

[Trey Scarborough]

Did you look at using a used turbo and blow compressor air in one side 
and use the boost side as a vac? probably could get some better results 
that way I would think.


On 5/21/23 5:11 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
I'm having better luck with the prototype than a shop vac already, 
just trying to improve the lift. Toting a generator isnt really an 
option.
I also just have a shop vac hose, if theres moisture the dirt collects 
on the sides with a shop vac and loses lift. That's how I've always 
dug post holes.


On Sun, May 21, 2023, 3:53 PM Chuck McCown via AF > wrote:


I think you would have better luck with a strong shop vac and a 30
gallon drum.  I have seen guys do that and it worked OK.  Air
powered vacuum producers work but I don’t know how well. Sometimes
they are called eductors or ejectors.
Take a look at this one:

https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/2-in-line-vac-only-aluminum?infoParam.campaignId=T9F=CjwKCAjwgqejBhBAEiwAuWHioM68tuz0PVLcvHFy4CRspRtvhy5gEQQryMrUkOoNv4MVeUTRSWTkvxoCrv8QAvD_BwE
Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com 
www.microtrench.pro 
www.terabitnetworks.com 
*From:* Steve Jones
*Sent:* Sunday, May 21, 2023 11:56 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Air vac
I need advice from you nerds.
I'm a broke joke, so hydrovac isnt in my budget. Besides, I want
dry spoils to put back in the hole.
This revision works for venturi. I have multiple size reducer but
right now I'm just doing 3/4 to to inch. The 3/4 to 1 then 1 to
half back to 1.5 for the venturi side seemed to have the best
lift, but the hardware store didnt have everything, so it's all in
2 inch right now
I'll dump to a 2000lb peanut sack if I can find one, but for now
I'll just use a 30 gallon drum and dump on the mega movers.
This is for use in conjunction with the airspade I did have some
coin to get.
Venturi math gets complicated and I'm full retard so I need to
find he best ways to increase negative pressure and where to drill
the ports.
I also wonder if theres an option to recapture the exhaust into
the airspade.
I need you nerds to go full geek.
If I can get valves correct I'll have the local machinist make me
a couple that are pressure rated.
This is to mimic the airvac I also cant afford.
This proof of concept has the lift to clear potholes and
handholes,  but I need to clean it up and get more efficiency.
A side discovery is that this setup is perfect for blowing straw
and seed with glue


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Re: [AFMUG] BGP Question

[Trey Scarborough]

You can prevent this by having a backup default route. The other thing 
is if you are n a physical interface or aggregated interface with a vlan 
on your upstream's router. If its physical it should stop routing 
traffic when it sees the interface down. If not it may keep trying to 
send traffic down that interface. BFD can help with this. It will Also 
depend on how your provider handles the traffic when the  the session 
with you terminates. If it will forward it on to your other providers or 
not. If your alternate providers are connected closely to you it 
shouldn't take to long, but it can take 10-20min for the loss of the 
peer to propagate across all global routing tables.


On 4/19/23 9:47 AM, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:

We have two circuits coming into our NOC.  We peer with 3 different providers 
on each circuit.  If a circuit fails, BGP will do it's magic and traffic will 
start flowing though the surviving circuit.

However, we seemed to get about 5 - 10 minutes of unstable Internet while this 
is happening.  Is this normal? If not, what can I do to speed up the process?  
Is it a function of my routers having to rebuild routes?  Will new faster 
routers help?  Is it a function of timers?  Keep-Alive is 30s and hold is at 
90s.  Should I investigate BFD?

How fast could I expect to get this fail-over to work under best conditions?

Thanks,
  Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Communications
www.Myakka.com




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Re: [AFMUG] Progress...

[Trey Scarborough]

What labels are those for the cables?

On 4/11/2023 8:59 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
Finally got relays!!  We should have it wrapped by tomorrow before 
noon...we have tested all the connections from PLC to terminal 
blocks...we will fire it  tomorrow before we take to job site and land 
it in enclosure...electricians will hook up power and then we can 
start landing wires from devices and levels...

Huge lift station6 VFDs and 6 large motors..



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Re: [AFMUG] Tik 1072 watchdog reboot bug

[Trey Scarborough]

Its a known hardware issue with connection tracking enabled and hardware 
offload. It has a hard limit to the number of connections it supports 
that is pretty low. Its high enough you won't notice till you get 
significant traffic, but low enough it is a common issue. The fix is to 
turn off connection tracking I know this isn't the best solution, but 
its the only one that works. This and the hardware availability of the 
processor are the reason they are discontinued. The good news is that 
moving over to the newer generation seems to resolve this, but comes 
with a handful of version 7 quirks.


On 4/11/2023 5:55 PM, Alex Kessler wrote:


Been experiencing this bug for years while running NAT and connection 
tracking.  Rebooting every few months while running v6 latest.  Does 
v7 have any known fixes to resolve these watchdog reboots?






---




From: "Colin Stanners" < cstanners at gmail.com >
To: "af" < af at af.afmug.com >
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 12:59:09 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik 1072 Frustrations

This last year, I've seen a MikroTik CCR1072 switch from long being 
rock-solid to now having occasional random reboots (from watchdog) or 
100% CPU usage, which strangles the BGP process. In the latter case, 
tools->profile would show the firewall taking 100% of CPU, even after 
temporarily disabling all firewall filter and NAT rules and connection 
tracking. Not fun.


MT tech support did not seem super helpful or interested, mostly 
recommending to disable watchdog (unacceptable on a production router) 
or to upgrade firmware (without specifying the suspected cause of the 
problem or nature of the fix).


Tried 1 update, that didn't seem to help, have now tried another...

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 11:38 PM Steven Kenney < steve at wavedirect.org 
> wrote:
MIkrotik has been rock solid for me for years. Until this year and the 
1072's. Random reboots set off by watchdog timer on all of my 1072's. 
Some more than others. Threads in the forum all discuss the same 
problem exactly. Its a connection tracking issue.. however I need 
connection tracking on one particular router. I've adjusted everything 
I could. Firmware and board firmware all up to date etc. Happens 
randomly with low levels of traffic, high levels of traffic, sometimes 
a couple times a day, sometimes weeks. No DDOS evidence at all from 
upstream routers. Configs checked and rechecked by third party 
experts. I graph everything about the Mikrotik and there are no clues 
or anything abnormal happening before the crash. Plenty of memory, 
disk space, CPU etc. Replaces all the trannies, power cables and such. 
Not running BGP only OSPF on the one that is giving me the most trouble.


Even have a serial console cable plugged into them to my opengear and 
set it to log pretty much everything to console including the kernel 
and nothing. A hard freeze.


Then there is Mikrotik support... I've never needed their support 
before until now. So I put a ticket in and the shitty attitude I'm 
getting from them seems like they KNOW there is something wrong with 
the hardware and they are intentionally not being helpful. It is 
pretty clear to see with all the people reporting this issue that 
there IS an issue.


If this is any indication of how things are going to go with Mikrotik 
on the newer hardware going forware I think its time to jump to an 
enterprise level system. Juniper most likely. Shame because they are 
just about keeping up with the demands with their hardware. Getting 
closer to 100Gbps etc and ROS7 ... but at their current pace I think 
we've outgrew them.


All the threads discussing this issue has been absolutely quiet when 
it comes to Mikrotik jumping in to mention or try to help 
troubleshoot. I think they know they had bad hardware out there and do 
not want to honor warranties. I've heard rumors of bad batches of 1072's.


Anyone else encounter this?


--

*Alex*
Alex Kessler/TECHNICAL OPERATIONS CENTER
*O (Ohio)*740.212.3773/*O (All other 
markets)*888.966.5690/ 145 Columbus Rd, Athens, OH 45701 
/point-broadband.com 


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Re: [AFMUG] Yo yo

[Trey Scarborough]

Great thanks Chuck I looked it up now I have to have one

On 4/10/2023 5:28 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

I just bought a capacitive discharge stud welder.
On a back panel, you can put any size stud you want anywhere you want.
Should have done this years ago.  No drilling.
Just zap and secure whatever it is you are putting on the panel.
*From:* Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Monday, April 10, 2023 4:07 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Yo yo
Busy...we check alignment before we continue..
On Mon, Apr 3, 2023, 5:44 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
 wrote:


Y'all out there ?  Awful quiet
- Reply message -
From: "TJ Trout" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: [AFMUG] FS: EZ RJ45s  Crimpers
Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2023 10:00 AM
I ordered a ton of connectors and crimpers during the shortage and
I'm a bit overstocked now but luckily we got a volume discount if
anyone needs any. We have used tens of thousands in our network
and sold many more.
Passthru/EZ, 50 micron gold with ground wire lug. The crimpers are
really nice!
1000 utp cat5e ez $300
1000 ftp cat5e ez esd $400
1000 ftp cat6 ez esd staggered conductor $500
Every 1,000 ordered includes 3 crimpers and 21 blades
Free shipping if you pay via Zelle to t...@voltbb.com or +$25 for
PayPal to t...@pcguys.us
Include your shipping information in the payment memo
-TJ
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Re: [AFMUG] Yo yo

[Trey Scarborough]

I would never install one of those in falling distance of my house. I 
would probably give it 2x or 3x the distance needed. I've seen them 
loose it in high winds and when the blade explodes its not pretty.


On 4/4/23 9:24 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

As FYI, this is not the proper place for a windmill:


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Re: [AFMUG] SFP+ cage extender

[Trey Scarborough]

No I was using airfiber, and SAEI.


I would be cautious of planning on having availability of Tibit moving 
forward. It's likely Ciena will lock it to using there hardware in the 
future.


On 3/6/2023 2:37 PM, Carl Peterson wrote:

Thanks Trey!  Were you also testing Siklu -> Tibit?

On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 2:35 PM Trey Scarborough  wrote:

Carl I am pretty sure that is the same cable I used to test a Tbit
to radio connection and I didn't have any issues. Also I know they
work in the  CRS305-1G-4S+IN.

On 3/3/2023 9:49 AM, Carl Peterson wrote:

I'm not doing liquid cooling.  See the pics I posted above.  Just
need to extend the SFP+ cage out of a Siklu radio.  The
alternative is to add another little switch but that adds
complexity to what is a simple design.  PON hanging off a Siklu
for a small apartment building.  Only thing active is the Siklu
and the "SFP".  One cyber power 48V battery backup to power the
silku.  If you add a switch, how are you powering it, where is it
mounted, etc.

On the note of adding a switch.  Has anyone used
the CRS305-1G-4S+IN?  Anyone have a contact at Mikrotiik who
could find out the SFP+ port's power budget?

On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 9:32 AM  wrote:

I’m curious what Carl Peterson is doing too.

The description on the linked item says it’s so you can put
your electronics into immersed liquid cooling without
exposing your optics to the liquid. Pretty esoteric stuff.

Not understanding the use case, but assuming there’s a reason
you can’t extend the fiber a few feet with a jumper and
mating sleeve, then how about use a DAC to reach another switch?

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Zach
Underwood
*Sent:* Friday, March 03, 2023 9:58 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SFP+ cage extender

I am curious what the application is that a longer cable
would not address? I have never heard of such a device.

On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 9:56 AM Carl Peterson
 wrote:

I have an application where I need to extend a SFP+ cage
a foot or two but need 3.5W peak and 2.7W
continuous power.  The existing device supports the power
but the only SFP+ cage extender I can find is only rated
at 2.5W.  Can you passively just extend the cage pins or
is this something that requires electronics?  Anyone know
of a higher power SFP extension cable?


https://www.sfpcables.com/sfp-to-sfp-cage-with-3m-flat-cable-in-nylon-jacket-20cm-and-55cm-length-3256-5454

-- 


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*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

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*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707


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Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

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Re: [AFMUG] SFP+ cage extender

[Trey Scarborough]

Carl I am pretty sure that is the same cable I used to test a Tbit to 
radio connection and I didn't have any issues. Also I know they work in 
the  CRS305-1G-4S+IN.


On 3/3/2023 9:49 AM, Carl Peterson wrote:
I'm not doing liquid cooling.  See the pics I posted above.  Just need 
to extend the SFP+ cage out of a Siklu radio.  The alternative is to 
add another little switch but that adds complexity to what is a simple 
design.  PON hanging off a Siklu for a small apartment building.  Only 
thing active is the Siklu and the "SFP".  One cyber power 48V battery 
backup to power the silku.  If you add a switch, how are you powering 
it, where is it mounted, etc.


On the note of adding a switch.  Has anyone used the CRS305-1G-4S+IN?  
Anyone have a contact at Mikrotiik who could find out the SFP+ 
port's power budget?


On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 9:32 AM  wrote:

I’m curious what Carl Peterson is doing too.

The description on the linked item says it’s so you can put your
electronics into immersed liquid cooling without exposing your
optics to the liquid.  Pretty esoteric stuff.

Not understanding the use case, but assuming there’s a reason you
can’t extend the fiber a few feet with a jumper and mating sleeve,
then how about use a DAC to reach another switch?

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Zach Underwood
*Sent:* Friday, March 03, 2023 9:58 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SFP+ cage extender

I am curious what the application is that a longer cable would not
address? I have never heard of such a device.

On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 9:56 AM Carl Peterson
 wrote:

I have an application where I need to extend a SFP+ cage a
foot or two but need 3.5W peak and 2.7W continuous power.  The
existing device supports the power but the only SFP+ cage
extender I can find is only rated at 2.5W.  Can you passively
just extend the cage pins or is this something that requires
electronics?  Anyone know of a higher power SFP extension cable?


https://www.sfpcables.com/sfp-to-sfp-cage-with-3m-flat-cable-in-nylon-jacket-20cm-and-55cm-length-3256-5454

-- 


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*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

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advance-networking.com 

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Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

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Re: [AFMUG] OT breakfast

[Trey Scarborough]

YEah they got some weird undies as well and take offense when I ask 
where I can get a pair.


On 2/20/2023 2:53 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

And they dress funny there as well..


On Mon, Feb 20, 2023, 11:53 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

Runny eggs? Homophobic? Language is different in Utah.


bp


On 2/20/2023 10:14 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Guac is great, love it.
Runny eggs?
Too homophobic to even attempt...
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, February 20, 2023 11:00 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT breakfast

If you don't like straight avocado, how do you feel about guacamole?

This is toast topped with guacamole and then topped with a couple
of fried eggs (over easy in this case). I do the guac fairly
simple, but you can jazz it up any way you like.

Some people call it avocado toast.

Real yummy IMO.

bp

On 2/16/2023 12:25 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

im partial to the garlic or the jalapeno, never tried with
almonds. i did get them unpitted once, those suck
On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 2:08 PM Bill Prince
 wrote:

One of my favorite snacks. Like green olives with almonds too.

bp


On 2/16/2023 11:23 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

that was one of the worst days of my life, I had grabbed a
jar of garlic stuffed olives at the store. On the way home
I opened it and popped one in my mouth. It turned out I had
gotten bleu cheese stuffed ones by mistake. i considered
just driving into oncoming traffic hoping to get that taste
out of my mouth.
On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 12:55 PM Bill Prince
 wrote:

I used to think something like that about blue cheese.

bp


On 2/16/2023 10:39 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

avocado tastes like an unwashed sweaty snatch
On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 12:35 PM Bill Prince
 wrote:

OK. I'll get it going. I had an "everything" bagel
with cream cheese and avocado. Might have been
better if I'd had a little jalapeno.

bp


On 2/16/2023 7:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Wonder what Jaime had for breakfast this morning …

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Re: [AFMUG] Coherent 100G in QSFP28 form factor

[Trey Scarborough]

Ill believe it when I have  them in my hands. Adva told us about these 
months ago and have been waiting for them as long... Enet and Precision 
have said they will have the same thing for almost a year now.


On 2/13/2023 8:37 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:

Looks like long-haul 100G is on the menu, boys!

To date transporting 100G over longer distances has required separate and 
expensive optical transport systems or platforms with CFP interfaces.

That's about to change as regular QSFP28 form factor optics for long-haul 100G 
are coming to market.

The new optics will use coherent lasers and DSPs to enable transmission 
distances of 120 km without amplification and 300 km with amps. Previously this 
wasn't possible since vendors could not fit all that inside the QSFP28 5 watt 
power envelope. That's the real breakthrough, all the nice things like tunable 
optics and flexible DWDM grids are just icing on the cake.

This is the first vendor to announce:

https://www.adva.com/en/products/open-optical-transport/pluggables-and-subsystems/coherent-100zr

... more are likely to follow.

- Jared



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Re: [AFMUG] Missed me by that much

[Trey Scarborough]

We had a problem with this used large bolders and the city made us move 
them after someone nearly died hitting them... we put in 3 times as many 
smaller ones.


On 2/3/2023 11:19 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Yeah, sonotube filled with a rebar cage.  Make a picket fence of 
them.  Cheaper than a cutover to a new building.  I have 576 strands 
feeding this shelter.  Or maybe I beam hammered in with a pile driver.

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com
*From:* TJ Trout
*Sent:* Friday, February 3, 2023 10:08 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Missed me by that much
I'm sure you could design some bollards that wouldn't allow a tractor 
trailer through your fence 

On Fri, Feb 3, 2023, 8:34 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

I think we are going to install a larger shelter, farther away
from the I-80 ROW fence. Second crash right there.  First to come
through the fence.  Car landed on our back up generator after
wiping out our fiber splicing trailer, dump trailer and really
nice powered reel trailer.
Hope the kid had insurance.  No seat belt.  Head wound but
apparently no broken bones.
*From:* Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:* Friday, February 3, 2023 7:27 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Missed me by that much
I don’t see the brown stain marking where you were standing before
the car arrived.
Mark
Mark Radabaugh
Amplex
22690 Pemberville Rd
Luckey, OH 43443
419-837-5015 x 1021
419-261-5996 cell
m...@amplex.net


On Feb 3, 2023, at 7:55 AM, Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:








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Re: [AFMUG] HDD per foot cost

[Trey Scarborough]

for that type of project in that area I would say you are probably 
looking at $20 a ft mainly do to it being a small gig so your pricing 
will be  higher. If you had several Jobs like this you may be able to 
get  the pricing down some, or you catch it being close to other work 
they have.


On 12/22/22 9:23 AM, Carl Peterson wrote:


What is the going rate per foot for HDD drilling and pullback of two 
SDR11 ducts and a trace wire?  Very sandy soil in the FL panhandle.  
All materials provided?  Around 4-5K' split into three or four runs.


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*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707


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Re: [AFMUG] MUX Monitor port

[Trey Scarborough]

typically unless you have a roadm or something that will be causing the 
individual channels to change or you can remotely attenuate them a 
permanently installed monitor isn't necessary. If its just a static 
filters at each end I would recommend just purchasing a channel checker 
or simple OSA.


channel checker like this
https://www.fiberinstrumentsales.com/jdsu-channel-checker.html

OSA I would recommend picking up a used JDSU 6000 and a OSA-110M they 
can be picked up for descent prices.


https://www.trsrentelco.com/products/viavi-solutions-inc-osa-110m


On 12/5/22 10:29 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:


Well they’re certainly not giving those away.

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Daniel Pautz via AF
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2022 11:20 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
*Cc:* Daniel Pautz 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] MUX Monitor port

If you find something that is fairly cheap let me know as we have a 
few 50-80KM runs that could use one on each side.   You are looking at 
something like this  - https://www.fs.com/products/71586.html


*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> 
*On Behalf Of *dmmoff...@gmail.com 

*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2022 8:57 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' >

*Subject:* [AFMUG] MUX Monitor port

Fiber multiplexers usually have a monitor port and 1%-5% of the light 
is sent to the monitor port so you can know the status of each wave.


That’s all well and good, but what device can I plug into the monitor 
port if I actually want to monitor them?  I have an OPM of course, but 
is there a network managed, SNMP capable device that I can get for this?


It must exist, but my Google Fu is not working.


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Re: [AFMUG] USF removal on P2P links?

[Trey Scarborough]

Dan If its that much money your paying. I would just start filling FCC 
499 forms with a not owing anything. Then provide your 499 filer number 
to them with a USF exepmt form.


On 11/29/22 3:51 PM, Daniel Pautz via AF wrote:


I know some of you guys are also using p2p links for peering and 
such,  I recall seeing someone’s advertisement saying “order a p2p 
with us and stop paying the USF”.  Digging into it more it looks like 
if you can confirm its internet traffic USF wouldn’t apply to the links.


Hopefully someone on the list has more info.  We have likely wasted a 
hundred grand + over the years and as we bump all of our links to 100G 
its only going to sky rocket.


Thanks!


Dan


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Re: [AFMUG] The Hartford claims

[Trey Scarborough]

I would say good luck with the Hartford. I never had any claims with 
them luckily, but I was billed for 2 years of service after I 
discontinued my policy from them jacking my rates up over 500%. They 
they tried to bully the money out of me and told me I had to prove to 
them I had service during that time. After I provided that they still 
sent it to some shady collection companies months later that did all 
kinds of illegal collection attempts like calling my wife's business. I 
wouldn't touch that company ever. I couldn't even imagine what they 
would do if I had filed claim with them.


On 11/25/22 6:19 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
Inland marine is on the 2023 agenda, I'm not a rich utah mormon like 
you where everything is made of gold, so I had to take baby steps.


That,of course depends on how many more of these "hey you damaged" 
emails I get before then.


I do feel bad for this guy, water apparently got bumped a few months 
back, just enough to crack a fitting. It puked this week. So water got 
shut off Wednesday and repaired today. I'm hoping he didnt host 
Thanksgiving. I'm going there tommorrow to verify it was us. I cant 
see that it wasnt based on what appears to be the pipe we put in in 
the pictures. Invoice lists overtime, so I assume its holiday weekend pay

That made the bill so high

On Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 5:34 PM Chuck McCown via AF > wrote:


I filed 2-3 claims, all on our Inland Marine Policy.  We had a
reel trailer get stolen, we backed over our Underground Magnetics
locator.  Both large claims.  The policy did not increase afterwards.
And we have had the odd workers comp claim now and then.
And on our GL policy we had workers hit peoples parked cars a few
times.  Nothing major.  And I don’t recall the premium ever
increasing for any of them. But I have had many years of coverage
so a pretty good record.  I highly recommend Inland Marine if you
can afford it.  It covers people stealing from the back of your
truck.  It covers the machines on the trailers if they get stolen
or damaged during a wreck.  Your regular auto insurance will not
do that.
*From:* Steve Jones
*Sent:* Friday, November 25, 2022 3:30 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The Hartford claims
When I was starting up, its was hard to get anyone to respond or
get a quote out because of all the variables. Hartford was
recomended so i went with them. But it seems you dont have an
actual agent to talk to.
I've never had a claim before so I dont know the consequenses of
filing one.
On Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 3:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

I don’t use them.  I have always used an independent insurance
agent that shop all the companies.  My agent works for me and
tries to save me money.  So there is never a risk to visit
about things.  He also personally visits every single time
there is some change in policies.  On the very few occasions I
have filed claims he fights for my case with whoever is
underwriting the claim.
*From:* Steve Jones
*Sent:* Friday, November 25, 2022 12:26 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* [AFMUG] The Hartford claims
Any of you fine gents use the Hartford for general liability?
Is there some method to talk to an agent with these guys
without filing a claim? Calling just circles me to claims
agents, and they wont tell me anything.
Im just trying to find out what the impact of a small claim is
with these guys and whether its best to just pay out of pocket
if the liability does fall on me.
I dont want to save a couple grand out of pocket to have my
rates skyrocket or coverage cancelled since its a new account,
but then again, I pay for more coverage than I need for what I
do so its kind of a waste to not use it.
If any of you guys have filed a claim with them, how smooth is
the process?


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Re: [AFMUG] OSPF Pulling my hair out

[Trey Scarborough]

check and make sure you don't have BFD enabled also check your interface 
types ptp or broadcast. If its a PTP link make it PTP. If it is 
broadcast you have to make sure the radios will pass it and not filter 
it out.  I'm not sure about the epmp ptp links if it has the setting, 
but on ubnt and some others its listed as multicast enhancement or 
broadcast filter.


On 10/4/2022 1:58 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
I have a site with a RB4011 connected via an old M5 Powerbridge, and 
an EPMP PTP425.  The 4011 is running ROSv7, everything else is on 
ROSv6.  Connecting to a CCR1036 and CCR1009 on the other ends of the 
radios.


Everything was working perfectly for several months until a storm came 
through, and now the F425 OSPF Session will not stay stable. The OSPF 
Weights are set to prefer the F425 link.  The OSPF neighbor never goes 
down, Adjacency/state never change, but the RB4011 will update it's 
entire routing table about every 5 seconds and flap back and forth 
between the Powerbridge and the F425.  The remote routers never update 
the route to the 4011, it is stable over the F425.  If I disable the 
F425 neighbor, everything is stable over the powerbridge.  If I 
disable the Powerbridge neighbor, the router will lose connectivity 
for a second every 10 or 15 seconds, like it loses it's routing table.


There is no packet loss across the F425 link, and it will Tik to Tik 
bw test at 100MB sync no problem and no packet loss.  I've even tried 
changing ports on the 4011, plugging the F425 into a completely 
separate OSPF router on the remote end.  I've also put the traffic 
through a VLAN on the F425 to see if the F425 was doing something 
weird with the packets.  The F425 radios on both ends have been power 
cycled.  I've also updated ROS to the latest 7beta, and no change.


I'd think this is an issue with ROSv7/6 since the routing table keeps 
updating, but the powerbridge link is always fine, so it feels like 
something with the F425.  Especially since it happened after a storm. 
But at the same time, how could a failure of the F425 be affecting 
OSPF?  When I do OSPF Logging on the 4011, nothing is looking out of 
the ordinary.  I guess I could try physically changing the 4011, but 
I've never had a failure like that before.


Mainly I just want to vent that I'm probably missing something stupid, 
I just haven't been able to figure out what it is yet.





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Re: [AFMUG] WIFI Camera venting

[Trey Scarborough]

A lot of these run off battery too. Yes once a month or more you have to 
bring it down plug it in and charge the battery...


On 9/20/2022 9:38 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:
Because MOST consumer based security cameras are WiFi based. Any 
camera running off ethernet/PoE is going to an NVR and they don't 
typically sell camera systems like this at Bestbuy or Target. It's 
Nest, Arlo, Ring, etc. as that's what's easy for most people.


Finding a power outlet to plug into is easier than running ethernet to 
cameras back to a central location.


We too have enough calls of people expecting WiFi cameras to work 
hundreds of feet away from their router. Or we install WiFi inside a 
shed but they don't tell us they want to install cameras OUTSIDE 
through steel siding and then call us when the cameras won't connect 
and we see a -90 signal to the managed router.


On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 3:29 PM Josh Luthman 
 wrote:


RJ45 ends scare people, you can't use a screwdriver.

On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 1:20 PM Jason McKemie
 wrote:

I don't get the wifi camera thing, you're already running
power, so why not take the time to wire the cameras up correctly?

On Tuesday, September 20, 2022, Nate Burke
 wrote:

Usually the incidents are not this close, but when they're
on top of each other it just makes me angry.  Just because
you refuse to understand it, doesn't make it magic.

Rural customer wants our internet. ok, no problem, we do
that all the time.  The ONLY reason they want the
connection from us, is so they can put RING cameras in
their steel barn 300' away from the house, and the kid at
best buy told them it would be fine because you just plug
them in and they connect to the wifi.

One of our property managers who we have several
connections to her buildings wants to put 30 cameras in at
2 MDU buildings in an office park.  Both their camera
vendor and Comcast assured her that it would only require
a connection in one of the FACP rooms, and that the other
building 400' away, with the FACP Room on the opposite end
of the building would be able to 'ping off it' just fine. 
I know comcast advertises their new wifi as Magic, but I
don't think even it could do that.


Am I the bad guy for dashing their hopes and dreams?  I
consider it 'managing expectations'  like 'If your
computer can't print to your printer, getting our
connection instead of a hotspot isn't going to help that'



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--
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Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi
Like us on Facebook 
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC service

[Trey Scarborough]

Yeah, but this is kind of unheard of they didn't even require this type 
of information back when they were doing all of this for phone lines. 
Its too late now but if as a whole everyone would have said no we are 
not doing this. If a majority of small ISPs didn't they would have a 
hard time enforcing the 15k fines. That would leave a spoltlight on VZ, 
ATT, Windstream, etc and there is no way their information is going to 
be accurate either. Then it would have been made more apparent that the 
data they are providing is garbage. When the underlying element of 
address fabric is flawwed and not accurate especially in rural areas. I 
really don't understand how they can expect the RF propagation and 
everything else to be accurate.



On 8/25/22 2:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Not filing is a bad decision.

On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 2:55 PM Cameron Crum > wrote:


cheat has a special section for this . Look at the bottom left.
You have to build your speed tier to signal strength mappings so
they can export polygons for your speed tiers. It's a bit
different from just the regular runs. If you have cheat polygons,
we can prep your stuff pretty quickly as we don't have to do all
the analysis. It's basically your contact info, what services you
are filing for and then your polygon and fabric uploads.

Cameron

On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 1:45 PM Steve Jones
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

The companies doing the BDC filings
What data, specifically are they going to need from us to do
the filing?
Im trying to get the export out of CnHeat, but I still need to
get more sites into it and I havent even started the whole
subscription side
Anybody just not filing?
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Re: [AFMUG] wispa list

[Trey Scarborough]

As having some incite in on the trade-show world because that's the 
business my wife is in. I can tell you the companies that run the 
tradeshows/venues and apps for tradeshows are always pulling off the 
customer lists and either selling them or have horrible security and 
they get mined.


On 8/23/2022 3:33 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
With a domain called exhibitionsleads, perhaps he has insiders in the 
venues that funnel out info on the various trade shows.  Could 
happen.  All those people that print up the name badges all have some 
kind of access to the list. Be fun to salt some bogus names and emails 
to see if it could be tracked.

*From:* Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 23, 2022 12:56 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] wispa list
I saw it.  I wonder if he really has the wispa list and if so how did 
he get it.

On Tue, Aug 23, 2022 at 12:11 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

I'll sell you my copy of the AFMUG list.




*From: *"Steve Jones" 
Anybody else get this with subject "WISPA B2B Leads"
from Franklin Joseph 
<

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Did we actually lose Jaime back in May?

[Trey Scarborough]

Liberal Texans are easy to find. I'm looking out my window at a couple 
riding bikes in the park with masks on, but no helmets in 95+ deg heat. 
You can especially find them in El Paso, Dallas, and can't forget San 
Austintonio. Everything is bigger in Texas even the nutjobs on both ends 
of the political spectrum.


On 8/16/22 4:10 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


Hey, did Jaime actually unsubscribe back in May when we were having 
the mass shooting/Lent discussion?


That would be a shame. A liberal Texan is kind of a rare commodity.


bp





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Re: [AFMUG] OT: extra-small 10/100 ethernet switch/repeater

[Trey Scarborough]

or a gpen21 its a 3 port switch with one being an SFP

I also often use the TP-LINK TL-SG105 I'm pretty sure they are about 
4"4"x1" and there under $20 I pick a couple up every time I'm at 
microcenter.



On 8/16/22 9:26 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
Lookup the MikroTik hAP mini, even without case, or the 2-port mAP. I 
don't think that you can get smaller without extreme engineering.


On Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 8:35 PM Robert, > wrote:


get a tempest

On 8/16/22 12:36 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> We have this Davis Vantage Pro 2 weather station. We've had it
for at
> least 12 or 14 years. For quite some time, we had it in our utility
> room where it was out of the way. Because the utility room was
kind of
> central to the main part of the house, we also had our WiFi AP
located
> in that room, and they both ran off a small (Netgear) 5-port
switch,
> which relayed to our router at the far end of the house. Never
had a
> problem with it.
>
> We recently started refreshing the utility room. Nothing
drastic, just
> fresh floor, paint, and trim. In the process we moved the WAP to a
> place we call "the alcove", which is still fairly centrally
located,
> but has better clearance to the outside/deck area. So we moved the
> switch there and put our VoIP phones on the switch with the WAP.
>
> So the weather station is now on a dedicated ethernet connection
back
> to the router. Suddenly the weather station "stalls out" after a
bunch
> of "excessive collision/speed mismatch" errors. Sometimes it
runs for
> 4 or 5 hours, sometimes it runs a day or two, but always gets to
the
> stalling out phase after a bunch of ethernet errors.
>
> So I started looking into the ethernet interface on the weather
> station. Turns out, it's an obsolete data logger contraption that
> Davis no longer makes, and it runs 10Base-T half duplex. Erg. I got
> into the router and set the port that it's on to 10/half dux,
and it
> actually seems to run longer this way, but still gets to the too
many
> errors condition after a while.
>
> I think I've come to the conclusion that the funky little data
logger
> goober on the weather station is just not very robust. I think if I
> put another switch or ethernet repeater co-located with the weather
> station, I can get it back to the state of mostly working (or at
least
> with a stall rate that is measured in months/years instead of
> hours/days).
>
> So what I'm looking for is the smallest/tiniest ethernet switch (or
> maybe just a repeater) that can be installed on the wall next to
the
> weather station console as possible. This may be difficult, as the
> Netgear fast switch we had there is only 4x4 inches. Just
wondering if
> there was something even smaller?
>
> The other option is (maybe) a Raspberry Pi that has two ethernet
ports
> on it? We run the weather station with a Raspberry Pi 3 that is
> located elsewhere on the LAN, but it only has 1 ethernet port. If
> there was one with two, I could just plop the pi next to the
weather
> station.
>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Paranoid

[Trey Scarborough]

Yes but where is the email hosted for the person you sent the email to.

On 8/12/22 9:42 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Ours is our own domain and our own email server.

Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 12, 2022, at 5:42 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:



Gmail? I think it’s understood that gmail is crawling your email for 
targeted ad purposes. Why else would it be free?


I read recently that one of the data points leading to the spooky 
seeming ads is the proximity to other people’s phones.  You’re 
talking about  with someone and an hour later see an ad for 
.  Spooky.  Except it’s because the person you were near has 
been googling for  and they know you were near him.


I’d been getting ads for holsters and body armor; which I thought was 
super weird.  Then I read that little factoid about proximity to 
other people’s phones and remembered that one of my co-workers is in 
a militia.  So I think that checks out.


-Adam

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2022 6:44 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Paranoid

Lately, I have been getting spam that is pushing products that I just 
talked about in emails.


Coincidence?

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com 
www.microtrench-blades.com 
www.terabitnetworks.com 



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Re: [AFMUG] Cogent

[Trey Scarborough]

I would post a copy of the email on the NANOG list with any sensitive 
information redacted. That would probably get them some nice feedback.


On 8/4/2022 12:24 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:


So we just got a email from cogent, we have told them time and time 
again to stop calling and stop emailing.  We tell them are good on 
bandwidth and we don’t need any of their services.. They then sent us 
a e-mail stating that they saw us coming though one of their customers 
networks from Link Technologies, Inc, and figured we would want to buy 
direct instead of going though one of their customers. Yes COGENT 
stated this; well at least one of their sales reps.  Sounds 
underhanded, shady, and unethical to me.    Just figured I would post 
about it; see if I am making a mountain out of a mole hill 


*LTI-Full_175px*

*Dennis Burgess*

*
Mikrotik : **Trainer, Network Associate, Routing Engineer, Wireless 
Engineer, Traffic Control Engineer, Inter-Networking Engineer, 
Security Engineer, Enterprise Wireless Engineer*


*Hurricane Electric: **IPv6 Sage Level***

*Cambium: **ePMP***

**

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”

*Link Technologies, Inc*-- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services

*Office*: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net 



Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 



Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net 



*How did we do today?*

Gold Star 
Green 
Light 
Yellow 
Light 
Red 
Light 



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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik CCR PoE Input

[Trey Scarborough]

Those are great If you can find them, but then again CCRs are a 
little hard to come by too.


On 8/2/2022 9:03 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Why don't you just feed it 48vdc?

https://www.neobits.com/mikrotik_pw48v_12v85w_mikrotik_pw48v_12v85w_48v_p14295922.html?atc=gbp=CjwKCAjwlqOXBhBqEiwA-hhitMTJztRW8suwASFjy_t_IzfEQ-OTAHot7sWBxBwTzBybFAFLHVgOxxoCr6MQAvD_BwE 



On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 5:05 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

What variant of CCR? I don't think they all support PoE.

Every MikroTik PoE device I've seen just uses 4,5+/7/8-. I don't
know that you'd need all four pairs, although most gigabit PoE
devices will take power on any combination of pins.

On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 2:50 PM Jason McKemie
 wrote:

Does anyone know what pins work for powering a compatible CCR
unit via DC?  I can't seem to find anything that specs more
than two pairs, I assume I need all 4 pairs for power and
gigabit data. I'd like to power a couple of CCR's using ports
on a rackinjector.

Thanks.
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Re: [AFMUG] Mobile Backhaul

[Trey Scarborough]

If your looking for a L1 DWDM to drop at the site then ekinops has a 
10x10 100G that can drop individual 10Gs at a site. I haven't seen any 
deployments for mobile carriers, but I have been told they have.



Most I have done to this point has been 100G rings using MPLS/EVPN. 
Hardware is typically using Juniper ACX 710, Nokia 7250 IXR-E, or Cisco 
NCS 540. These are using 40 or 80K bidi optics, but in some instances 
PAM4 and hopefully soon single channel dwdm modules that don't require 
outside amplification. I have not found any that you can really use a 
true passive system yet, but hopefully will be testing some soon. I have 
deployed a couple using 1310/1550 splitters and ran DWDM on top of a 
1310 100G channel using 40/80K sfp28s.



Trey


On 7/19/22 10:53 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
I'm looking for referrals to what you've worked with regarding mobile 
backhaul services.


We've poked around at a few vendors and it seems like it's common to 
have products on either side of what I'm looking for. It appears 
common to offer:


1) Just a basic 10x 10G -> 1x 100G muxponder. It seems silly to have a 
rack full of muxponders at the CO.
2) Complicated any color to any color ROADM and 25g -> 400G 
aggregation DWDM systems that don't go down to the speeds the mobile 
operator would want.



It doesn't seem like people have something that offers 1x or 2x 10G 
with 2x 100G for east\west routing in a hardened, small form factor. 
Awesome if those 100G were tunable, so I could plumb them into a 
passive wave system.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





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Re: [AFMUG] used telecom shelters

[Trey Scarborough]

I did that once... If you want it climate controlled by the time you 
insulate it and install a descent floor in it the cost ended up being 
way more than a used shelter at the time. That was when you were still 
able to get some Nextel shelters for free if you payed to have them 
removed from the site. You will probably be able to pick up even more 
now with T-mo and sprint collapsing footprints, but who knows Sprint 
wasn't keen on shelters and T-mo your lucky to have a full cabinet.


I just happened by the one near me I was driving buy and saw rows of 
them lined up in a lot along with portable buildings, and temp 
construction trailers. A good resource would probably be to find out who 
the ATT Turf Vendors are in your area. They will have sold them off to 
someone at some point. You can sometimes give them your information and 
get  a good deal when they get a site demo.



On 7/12/22 8:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

I will probably make one out of a conex.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jul 12, 2022, at 7:32 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:


The market used to be vast. It seems less so now.

I'm certainly open to finding more sources as well.


For lower-strand count lines (say where I have IRUs), I'm really 
trying to avoid just a regular cabinet, but...




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Chuck McCown via AF" 
*To: *af@af.afmug.com
*Cc: *"Chuck McCown" 
*Sent: *Tuesday, July 12, 2022 8:28:55 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] used telecom shelters

I want a larger central office.  The building I installed is nice, 
had 4 roof mounted HVAC units, had an elevated door to make it flood 
resistant, sump pump etc.  Very nice building.  Just too small.
Been looking at the used telecom shelter sites and some of them don’t 
even tell you where the units are.

Anyone have a favorite broker?
Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com
www.terabitnetworks.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Awesome modem training

[Trey Scarborough]

Is it weird that after it was over my mind automatically added a "you've 
got mail!" to the end of it.


On 7/5/22 9:31 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

I like how the touch tones show up when dialing.
*From:* Jan-GAMs
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 5, 2022 1:57 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Awesome modem training

Thanks, brings back memories

On 7/4/22 10:58, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
You can see it shift gears upwards and use more and more frequencies 
for the data.

https://youtu.be/vvr9AMWEU-c



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Re: [AFMUG] Raspberry Pi Shortage

[Trey Scarborough]

I second this these are pretty nice. You can use the RPI locator too 
https://rpilocator.com/?country=US if you can catch it when they drop a 
shipment. I was able to get a couple watching and snagging them soon as 
they are in stock.



On 6/21/22 12:34 PM, Cameron Crum wrote:
Check out the orange pi zero or orange pi 4. Much cheaper, and similar 
specs. If  you aren't sold on having to use raspian, they might do 
what you need. Have to source from China, but that seems to be the 
case for most things these days.


On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 12:09 PM Brian Webster 
mailto:i...@wirelessmapping.com>> wrote:


Might be better off getting a refurb Chromebook. NewEgg is selling
a couple
of models for under $60

Thank you,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com 


-Original Message-
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
] On Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 12:26 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Raspberry Pi Shortage

Any ideas when the shortages on these will stop? Was wanting to order
a few of them for a monitoring project but they're just not available.
I do not want to feed scalpers either.

I guess this relates to the shortages of many things.

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Re: [AFMUG] Netflix

[Trey Scarborough]

I have installed a few of them they will pull down around 4G for about 
6hrs a day. You as well have to direct peer with them before they will 
hand it out.


On 6/10/2022 2:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
why is netflix so stingy with those, arent they just caching servers, 
or does the entire catalog come over?
My kids already watched the new stranger things season like 4 times, 
Id like a consumer version



On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 2:05 PM Zach Underwood  
wrote:


Do you have 5gbps of peak Netflix traffic? if not you
probably would not be able to get an onsite box
https://openconnect.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360034538352

On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 2:55 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

Years ago, getting a Netflix content server was considered a
major feat and definitely something to strive for.
Is this still a thing?  Are they still available?  Still worth
pursuing?
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-- 
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)

My website 
advance-networking.com 
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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: my adventure

[Trey Scarborough]

Those need to by liquid jetted with ranchero sauce, queso, or hatch 
chili verde!


On 5/22/2022 1:38 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
Have you done tests to determine the maximum acceleration a tamale can 
withstand?


If you suck all the air out of the tube you might be able to reach 
such a high velocity that you can have an army of Mexican aunts making 
tamales to order and have them arrive still warm.


Maybe you could get Elon Musk's hyperloop to fund the whole thing as a 
small scale experiment for their whole transport people in tubes thing.


On Sat, May 21, 2022, 9:30 PM Steve Jones  
wrote:


Im slowly gonna sneak in 2 inch duct here and there heading south
til I get to your place. The Texas to Illinois tamale pipeline.
Once people find out about tamale pipelines, the underground
markets gonna explode

On Sat, May 21, 2022 at 10:23 PM Jaime Solorza
 wrote:

You got this Steve..

On Sat, May 21, 2022, 3:24 PM Steve Jones
 wrote:

So for the last three months I've been creating my
company, getting all that stuff in order, spending a shit
ton of money (for me). But the last pieces are falling in
place on monday. I pick my drill back up from vermeer
(12,300 dollar repair quote, but they managed to fix my
strike alert and saved me 3000 bucks). Probably not a good
business decision to put that much into an old drill when
the drill is worth less than the repair, but it gets me in
a drill.
I have a contract that's local for around 2 years work,
fairly low rate per foot compared to what's out there, but
its local and all I can eat when I want to eat it, so I
can keep my fulltime job while I transition. I figure
spend this year and maybe next building experience with my
son, then chase the bigger dough.
The underground industry seems a whole lot like the wisp
industry, where theres a whole bunch of strangers willing
to help strangers succeed with good advice. Theres some
assholes, but same here.
Once I get operational and have the toolset refined with
some experience I'll be heavily pimping to the wisp
degenerates turning fisp, I think theres a good number
that a guy can operate at to be affordable to small
outfits and still get a little money in the wallet.
My kid operated a mini ex for the first time, the video
games actually paid off, he got the feather concept of the
controls down, so he may leave me to go do that after some
experience, dont blame him a bit if he does, equipment
operators get the best cushions in the seats and the best
paychecks.
Just need to hand over the workmans comp certificate when
I have the drill back in hand and I start making the millions.
God is good, even if I'm not.
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Re: [AFMUG] -48vdc site

[Trey Scarborough]

I use the Tycon TP-VRHP-4824 its isolated and I found more mikrotiks 
accept 24v than anything else.


Also they make a PW48V-12V85W powersupply for most the rack mount tiks.

On 5/2/2022 4:37 PM, Christopher Tyler wrote:

Thanks for all the information. We've opted to get some Mwanwell DC-DC 
converters just to be on the safe side.



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Re: [AFMUG] 30V POE high current

[Trey Scarborough]

might be easier to run a 48v POE and then use one of the mikrotik 
RBGPOE-CON-HP 802.3at to 24v converters.


On 4/13/22 11:36 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I was hoping not to.  Had to add a repeater to an existing install for 
the customer to pickup another building.  Cat5 goes through an 
underground conduit and then 150' through a shop building.


On 4/13/2022 11:30 AM, Aeron Wireless wrote:

Powering the Powerbox via a dc cable isn't an option?

On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 12:22 PM Nate Burke > wrote:


I'm trying to run a Mikrotik Powerbox via POE to power a Force300
and an
EPMP1000 GPS Radio.  Given the length of the cable run, the 24V
supply
that comes with the Mikrotik is only 20V at the device, and won't
power
up the 1000 AP.  It's all running with the Cambium 30V POE
injector from
the F300, but I'm afraid if it reboots in the cold, and has to
run the
heaters it won't be enough juice to power up.  I can find 24V
POE's all
day long, but 30V are hard.

I could use a Meanwell PS (MDR seires Spec sheet says it can be
adjusted
to 30V max)  with a MCT POE Injector, but I'm hoping to find
something
cleaner, since the POE is just sitting on the floor in an office now.



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Re: [AFMUG] Reaching a Mikrotik behind NAT

[Trey Scarborough]

in my experience the best reliable way is to use sstp as it uses normal 
http protocol and can traverse most NAT/firewall instances. I have had 
issues with the others wiregaurd is nice , but if all you need is access 
to remotely manage and monitor equipment and there is not much bandwidth 
then the simplicity of sstp has been easier in most instances for me.


On 4/11/22 10:11 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
Before I spend half a day lab'ing the best way, advice on the best way 
to access/monitor a Mikrotik behind a NAT Connection?  I do not have 
the ability to do any port forwarding.  It's possible it may also be 
behind more than 1 NAT layer.


I'd also like a couple of the devices behind the Mikrotik to be 
remotely accessible as well (UPS), but a majority of the devices will 
go straight out the NAT connection and don't need to tunnel.


Looks like PPTP/L2TP or Wireguard?  Is one easier/more reliable?



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Re: [AFMUG] Anyone know this router?

[Trey Scarborough]

I have used them with the ISP management option and it isn't that great 
and is very limited on what you can do. You know things like configuring 
IPV6 isn't available via the management platform.


On 4/6/2022 10:59 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
Personal is free, I don't think there is a limit, I assume the ISP 
option has better management at scale? And I'm sure there are 
recurring fees.


On Wed, Apr 6, 2022, 8:31 AM D. Bernardi  wrote:



Are there additional recurring fees for the cloud based
management/provisioning tool, for individual accounts or the
centralized ISP option?



At 09:15 PM 4/5/2022, you wrote:

yeah the tp-link deco's are solid, I've heard mixed reviews
about the isp option, but you can buy them and deploy on
individual accounts (I actually have quite a few deployed on my
personal deco sign in) cloud managed and work great

On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 4:30 PM Jason McKemie
 wrote:

Interesting, any idea how to find out more about the
centrally managed option? The TP link routers I've used have
seemed decent.

On Tuesday, April 5, 2022, Nate Burke  wrote:

A neighboring WISP uses them and really likes them.  I
guess there's an 'ISP' option you can get from the
factory, and centrally manage all the customer routers
from a dashboard.Â

On 4/5/2022 5:44 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Â
Â
From: Rise Broadband 
Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2022 4:21 PM
To: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Subject: Replace your old router with our newest
Wi-Fi Deco M4 router. Upgrade to Rise Premium Whole
Home Wi-Fi!
Â
CHUCK, Get the family a Mesh Network system today!
To view this email as a web page, go here.



We are excited to share our newest and fastest Wi-Fi
router is now available to all existing Rise
Broadband customers! Our newest routers are able to
accomodate multiple connected devices without the
Wi-Fi strains on your home network from today's high
demand Internet connected devices.

How can you tell if you need to replace your
router?  Here are a few indications it might be
time to upgrade your router:

1. Are you competing for bandwidth with the other
members of your household?
2. Is the router struggling to support all the
connected devices on your home network by buffering
or not connecting new or existing devices?
3. Are your Internet speeds reduced when using Wi-Fi
compared to plugging directly into the Internet source?

If you have noticed any of these, then it might be
time to upgrade your Wi-Fi router. According to Cnet
​​​​experts recommend replacing your router
every 2-5 years depending on if you use a lot of
smart home gadgets or new technology like laptops,
phones and other primary Wi-Fi devices.1
Â


We know how important a strong Wi-Fi signal is to
your family while working and schooling from home.
Rise Broadband wants to make your home Wi-Fi an even
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conference, stream, surf, and online game in every
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providing even faster network speeds and truly
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With Whole Home Wi-Fi from Rise you'll have: 
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  # TP-Link Mesh Technology:

  * With advanced Deco Mesh Technology, units work
together to form a unified network with a single
network name. Devices automatically switch
between units as you move through your home for
the fastest possible speeds**

   

Re: [AFMUG] Solid 5GHz ptp backhaul solutions

[Trey Scarborough]

There is always the cambium PTP550  or radwin 2000-D they are both very 
solid platforms, but at the 2-4k a link for connectorized and dishes you 
get in to the realm of why not just spend the extra on a licensed radio...


On 3/22/2022 2:26 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

I have two AirFiber 5GHz HD links in operation for a water company..
They have been super solid...

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022, 1:18 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

My preferred radios for 5ghz backhauls are the Ubiquiti airfiber
5xHD.

I don't have any personal experience to speak of with Cambium PTP
stuff, other than ePMP for lower capacity links, but PTP670 is
probably the best 5ghz PTP radio out there, but it's pretty
pricey. The PTP 550 and Force 425 look pretty decent too, but I
haven't used either of those or heard a whole lot from people who
have.

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 1:53 PM Jaime Solorza
 wrote:

Two of the local WISPs have asked me what I would recommend in
5GHz to replace their Ubiquiti and Cambium radios for
backhauls...
One of them tried Mimosa and went back to Ubiquiti...
What says the Borg?
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Re: [AFMUG] CWDM vs DWDM, Single Fiber vs Dual fiber

[Trey Scarborough]

In my experience the FS optics seem to have a bit less of a quality 
standard. I have had them fail at a higher rate than any other. I would 
especially recommend against them if they are not being installed in a 
climate controlled environment. If you do make sure you order the 
industrial not commercial rated ones. I go through a massive amount of 
optics when considering the ones I use for myself and all the installs I 
do for my customers. The ones I see the least failures on are the vendor 
specific, Integra, Finisar, Solid these I rarely see DOA and have few 
failures in the field. Next group would Be Precision, FlexOptix, 
eoptolink, OPlink, mikrotik. Might get 1 in 100 fail OTB and another 1-2 
out of 100 fail in the first year. Ones to stay away from are OSI, 
10Gtek, FS, Ubnt these I have received entire shipment or 20+ fail OTB 
and are the ones I see most removed and replaced.


On 1/26/2022 1:36 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

We have used both FS, FlexOptix, and SolidOptics.

All have been good, I just tend not to trust the FS optics as much as 
the others on the more critical links.


Mark


On Jan 26, 2022, at 1:44 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:


I've heard good things about Flex Optix.

I've been doing FS myself (cheaper).  I've had no issues so far.

On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 10:40 AM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:

The manufacturers supply a ‘programmer box’ that usually have a
USB connector, a SFP slot, and some software to reprogram the
SFP’s.   The software usually lets you set how the SFP identifies
itself to the switch / router so that you can work around the
asinine vendors that insist on locking to vendor specific optics,
and to set the frequency on the tunable optics.

https://www.flexoptix.net/en/flexbox.html?395=1357=
 for
example.   They will send one for free if you order optics from them.

Mark


On Jan 26, 2022, at 8:25 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:

How do you tune the tunable optics?  Is it done in the config of
the router, or do you tune it before installing somehow?
*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 25, 2022 9:33 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CWDM vs DWDM, Single Fiber vs Dual fiber
We spare with tunable optics.   Production is channel specific
but spares are tunable to the frequency.   Price is usually 4x
the fixed optics, but as you noted, having to spare every
channel gets pricy.
Mark



On Jan 25, 2022, at 7:57 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
My recollection is the DWDM optics are slightly cheaper, but
the CWDM muxes are cheaper.  I think if you fully populate the
CWDM MUX then the cost was a wash and it didn’t matter which
one you bought.  If you are only ever going to use a few
channels then CWDM is noticeably cheaper.
The biggest hassle IMO is inventory and spares.  If you’re
using 10 different color optics then you need 10 different
spares on the shelf.   If you use 40 colors that cost $400 each
then you need $16,000 in spare optics.  That’s not even a bad
scenario.  Some of the more exotic optics are $2300 from Fiber
Store.  I have a quote in hand for 80km 100G Arista branded
optics from another vendor for over $6000.  If you’re using
multiple colors of those then you may find yourself with a
whole lotta capital tied up in spare parts.
*From:*AF *On Behalf Of*Carl Peterson
*Sent:*Tuesday, January 25, 2022 4:43 PM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:*[AFMUG] CWDM vs DWDM, Single Fiber vs Dual fiber
We are leasing a few new strands of dark to a couple
locations.  On our other paths we have just Done BiDi for our
ring or payload and used another for our routed/management
network.  For these strands, I'm thinking of doing passive WDM.
Any benefit to DWDM vs CWDM if you aren't expecting to scale
it?  Why would you use two strands vs one strand?  We generally
use one strand for everything, either BiDi or GPON so my brain
just sort of assumes that.  What am I missing?
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Re: [AFMUG] CWDM vs DWDM, Single Fiber vs Dual fiber

[Trey Scarborough]

If you are just wanting to have multiple passive channels between two 
locations it doesn't really matter if your talking less than 16 
channels, Cost is about the same either way for equipment if your 
distance isn't that long and won't need amps. With good optics you 
should be able to get about 50km with 80k dwdm optics and a simplex 
filter at each end. I would go with DWDM channels to get the most amount 
of channels either way.


The big difference comes if your adding amps and wanting to pass 
channels. Then you would want to lean more towards a dual fiber set up 
especially if you are wanting 100G. You can still do these things with 
simplex fiber DWDM systems but it adds a bunch of noise and limits the 
range you can go. Also a great deal of 100G transponders don't like 
split channels.


On 1/25/2022 3:43 PM, Carl Peterson wrote:
We are leasing a few new strands of dark to a couple locations.  On 
our other paths we have just Done BiDi for our ring or payload and 
used another for our routed/management network.  For these strands, 
I'm thinking of doing passive WDM.


Any benefit to DWDM vs CWDM if you aren't expecting to scale it?  Why 
would you use two strands vs one strand?  We generally use one strand 
for everything, either BiDi or GPON so my brain just sort of assumes 
that.  What am I missing?


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Re: [AFMUG] Are any of you using these?

[Trey Scarborough]

It uses 900mhz LORA they are not crypto miners in the traditional sense. 
The power draw is minimal no more than a typical AP. Its just a LORA 
radio and a Raspberry pi in most cases.


On 12/29/21 10:36 AM, Robert wrote:
What power levels, channel sizes and frequencies do these use?  What 
kind of bandwidth is a fully in-use one going to consume?


On 12/29/21 7:55 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

i did sign up for the free miner program though, in case im wrong

On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 9:53 AM Steve Jones 
 wrote:


so its like a pyramid scheme where the pyramids more shaped like
an hourglass and the capital gains taxes eat the profit after the
electric bill?

On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 9:39 AM Aeron Wireless
 wrote:

I think the commentator Bill Moore on the Facebook post got
it right:
"
Bill Moore


You need to place it in a non-saturated area. Devices have to
be 900 meters away from one another. Visit
explorer.helium.com


 to
see a map of devices that may be in your area. Only select
vendors are authorized to manufacture the devices. Do your
research. Units are purchased using cryptocurrency USDT
equivalent to $500 U.S. (shipping included). Manufacturers
are about 4 months behind in fulfilling orders due to demand.
The more saturated the area the more rewards are shared among
those in the area, dramatically reducing rewards/profit."

On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 10:35 AM Steve Jones
 wrote:

I cant see it being valuable in non urban areas where
there are large volumes of cows and small volumes of
people who want to use new fangled tech

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 10:31 PM Jason McKemie
 wrote:

Good luck getting a miner, I've had one on order for
months now.

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 8:57 PM Jaime Solorza
 wrote:


https://www.facebook.com/114589700408999/posts/399860581881908/
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Re: [AFMUG] Beehive Dishes and Aviat Radios

[Trey Scarborough]

I believe avait has an adapter or radio that is compatible with remec 
mount. I would email Ken and ask.


On 11/22/2021 5:09 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
Do the 2/3' Beehive dishes have the correct mount holes for an Aviat 
Radio, or are they something special?  I've only used the dishes with 
REMEC mounts before.




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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Soundproof Headphones

[Trey Scarborough]

use a good pair of in ear monitors and then get a good ear-pro headset.

On 11/22/2021 11:44 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I'm trying to do a sound mix for an external feed while I'm live at a 
venue.  Getting the exterior mix right is tough since there's so much 
bleed from the room sound.  Eg, drums and Bass sound so loud in the 
house without my amplification, so I always am mixing them low in the 
external mix.  I don't think 'noise canceling' is the answer, since it 
would be trying to cancel out the same sound that I'm actively trying 
to listen to.  Are there good 'soundproof' monitor headphones?  Maybe 
like you would use to mow the grass, would they be better?  I have a 
pair of full over the ear headphones now, but a lot of exterior sound 
still comes through them.




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Re: [AFMUG] UPC/APC Fiber adapters

[Trey Scarborough]

This can be true, but most manufactures now just produce two tolerances 
that are for low cost and higher cost...


They do make SC APC/UPC Male to Female adapters as well.


On 11/19/2021 8:28 AM, Carl Peterson wrote:
The SCA ones have a higher tolerance then the SCU SM ones which have a 
higher tolerance then the MM ones.  The MM ones will work with a 
plastic sleeve where the APC ones need a ceramic sleeve.  TLDR; green 
ones will work with everything. Blue ones mostly work with APC but 
sometimes not.  Brown ones can be pretty crappy.


On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 6:32 PM Craig Baird  wrote:

So, I just want to verify an assumption I've made. I know the
difference between UPC and APC connectors. You can't use one with
the other and have it work out well. I get that. My question has
to do with adapters (couplers like an SC to SC adapter) that you
would have on, say, a patch panel. Is there any difference between
an APC SC to SC adapter and a UPC SC to SC adapter, other than the
color? My assumption is that they're just sleeves to mate the two
connectors, and they're agnostic as to whether those connectors
are APC or UPC. In other words, I'm thinking they're identical and
the different colors exist solely for easy identification to keep
people from mistakenly plugging in the wrong connector. So my
question comes down to this: Will an actual, functional problem
result from connecting two UPC connectors using an APC (green) SC
to SC adapter?

Craig

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(410) 637-3707

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Re: [AFMUG] Cisco VAR

[Trey Scarborough]

Try Relay Networks. They sell both used and new Cisco gear.

https://www.relaynetworks.com/

On 11/15/2021 8:59 AM, Carl Peterson wrote:



Anyone have a cisco VAR they like?  We have a customer we are doing 
some wireless work for and have been asked if we can add some 
switches to the PO.  Copper River isn't responding to us. Lead time 
isn't critical, just need to have them on order to backstock.



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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Missouri Governor Doesn't Understand Responsible Disclosure

[Trey Scarborough]

So the person who created the site and should be liable for gross 
negligence nothing happens to, but the person who discovers it needs to 
be prosecuted. Yeah makes sense... I guess if your a politician or work 
for one its perfectly reasonable to be incompetent and take no 
responsibility for your mistakes.


On 11/15/2021 7:12 PM, Bill Prince wrote:



Missouri Governor Doesn't Understand Responsible Disclosure

*[2021.10.18]* 
 
The Missouri governor wants to prosecute 
 
the reporter who discovered a security vulnerability in a state’s 
website, and then reported it to the state.


The newspaper agreed to hold off publishing any story while the
department fixed the problem and protected the private information
of teachers around the state.

[...]

According to the Post-Dispatch, one of its reporters discovered
the flaw in a web application allowing the public to search
teacher certifications and credentials. No private information was
publicly visible, but teacher Social Security numbers were
contained in HTML source code of the pages.

The state removed the search tool after being notified of the
issue by the Post-Dispatch. It was unclear how long the Social
Security numbers had been vulnerable.

[...]

Chris Vickery, a California-based data security expert, told The
Independent that it appears the department of education was
“publishing data that it shouldn’t have been publishing.

“That’s not a crime for the journalists discovering it,” he said.
“Putting Social Security numbers within HTML, even if it’s
‘non-display rendering’ HTML, is a stupid thing for the Missouri
website to do and is a type of boneheaded mistake that has been
around since day one of the Internet. No exploit, hacking or
vulnerability is involved here.”

In explaining how he hopes the reporter and news organization will
be prosecuted, [Gov.] Parson pointed to a state statute defining
the crime of tampering with computer data
.
Vickery said that statute wouldn’t work in this instance because
of a recent decision by the U.S. Supreme Court in the case of Van
Buren v. United States.

One hopes that someone will calm the governor down.

Brian Krebs has more 
.


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Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit

[Trey Scarborough]

Water blowing for long runs of fiber is actually quite common especially 
for long runs. Depending on the fiber it tends to float causing less 
drag. In locations like swamps and plowing shallow lakes it is done to 
keep the duct from floating. When complete the duct is left flooded.


I think you would run in to issues with leakage on the corrugated duct 
as it has a tendency to expand and the inside diameter can vary quite a 
bit. You will also have to probably build your own couplers as standard 
ones for corrugated won't hold any pressure. I have tried blowing with 
air through sections of it in the past and its a nightmare. I have 
direct buried it for small runs between buildings etc. I mainly use the 
plenum stuff that is UV rated and the biggest issue you will run in to 
is you can have no medium or large rocks directly on it or they will 
punch a hole or crush it when you fill the trench.


On 11/9/2021 1:07 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

It is rated for 160 but stuff will always do twice what it is rated for.
Normally the pressure sits about 50 PSI unless there is some kind of 
pinch.

*From:* Carl Peterson
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 9, 2021 11:04 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
Can this duct hold 200 psi?
On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:50 AM Chris Fabien  wrote:

Chuck, Interesting idea. Does this scale up to long distances like
blowing does? Water seems like it would have a lot more resistance in
a mile of 1.25" pipe but perhaps with 200psi behind it that's no
issue?

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 3:46 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:
>
> Right, they are always full of water.
> I made a proofing dart with a cup seal at the end.
> 20 GPM 200 PSI moves it along at about 5 feet per second.  The
pump was remarkably cheap to build.
>
> The cable or mule tape is buoyant so that reduces friction and
the water does too.  I have read about this for years but never
tried it.
>
> From: TJ Trout
> Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 1:37 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>
> Underground condit gets filled with water from condensation
anyway, so I'm sure he doesn't clean it out. I'm assuming he's
using a dart and pushing it with water to pull cable in?
>
> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 12:34 PM Bill Prince
 wrote:
>>
>> I don't understand how that works (with water). Seems like it
would be a
>> pain to get it out? or do you just leave it in there?
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 11/8/2021 11:59 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> > Cheap is a selling point for me.  We have started to put
stuff down
>> > conduit with water rather than air.  So far it is much better
than air.
>> >
>> > -Original Message- From: Chris Fabien
>> > Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 10:33 AM
>> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>> >
>> > I would just use normal duct of whatever size is appropriate
. That
>> > just doesn't look as sturdy as solid wall of plastic. Looks
like being
>> > more flexible is the key selling point.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 7:02 PM Chuck McCown via AF

>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> No, not smurf tube.  It is corrugated micro duct.
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >> On Nov 4, 2021, at 4:02 PM, Josh Luthman
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> 
>> >> The cheap stuff from Home Depot?  That sounds like a nightmare.
>> >>
>> >> Josh Luthman
>> >> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> >> 1100 Wayne St
>> >> Suite 1337
>> >> Troy, OH 45373
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 4:08 PM Chuck McCown via AF

>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> There is HDPE versions that are designed for direct burial.
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Bill Prince
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 2:04 PM
>> >>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> That orange stuff? I would not think it is outdoor rated,
nor would
>> >>> it hold up if buried.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> bp
>> >>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> On 11/4/2021 12:56 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Conduit.  Like 1/2” corrugated microduct.
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Bill Prince
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 1:41 PM
>> >>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> You talking about conduit or culvert?
>> >>>
>> >>> We replaced all of our old corrugated (galvanized) 
culvert(s) with
>> >>> the plastic stuff that's corrugated on the outside and
smooth wall
>> >>> on the inside. Way better stuff because it 

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik CCR2004 PSA

[Trey Scarborough]

A bunch of those features aren't available in V6 either so converting 
should not be to big of an issue. unless your running ospf with MPLS. I 
have been running one of the latest RC4 or 3 since it came out. I have 
had no issues with it crashing. I created the config from scratch and 
did not upgrade from a V6. Some of the commands are completely 
different. I wouldn't try to comingle V6 and V6 OSPF network either. The 
ones I have running are only running BGP.


On 10/29/21 5:30 PM, Nate Burke wrote:


There's still a lot of yellow on this page

https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ROS/v7+Routing+Protocol+Status

I just tried to upgrade a test router running simple OSPF from 6.49 to 
7.1rc5 and the OSPF sessions never came back up, so I'm guessing their 
config conversion code isn't working quite right yet.



On 10/29/2021 4:05 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

The new RB5009 is also v7 only.

Does this mean v7 is actually getting to the point that it's usable?

On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 3:26 PM Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:


That's one hell of a PSA!  Thanks.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 12:48 PM Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>> wrote:

I forgot there was more than one CCR2004 model.  I was
specifically talking about the CCR2004-16G-2S+, the
Routerboard Product page for it says V7 only.

On 10/29/2021 11:41 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

None of mine shipped with ROS7.  I have probably 8-10 of
them, all on ROS6.  Guess it must be the newer batch.  I
wonder if ROS7 fixed the issues with them.

On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 12:33 PM Nate Burke
mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>> wrote:

Just got my shipment in, I missed that they come with
ROS7.0.4 and you
can't downgrade them to V6, so if You're not ready to
make the leap to
V7, this isn't the RB for you.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Palo Alto City UUT

[Trey Scarborough]

Is your wifes phone number one that would originate in Palo Alto. I have 
seen this before some taxes are based on the NPA-NXX block I used to 
have 2 phonelines one was in a different area code Dallas and Lubock. 
Even though the billing address was the same I paid different taxes 
based on where the phone number originated from. When I switched 
providers and ported the numbers the issue went away.


On 11/2/21 3:13 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


Here's a curious one. My wife & I have cell service through Verizon. 
It's a simple plan with unlimited text, unlimited talk, and more data 
than we can use. We pay a fee for the service, and we pay a "fixed 
amount" for each phone. So far, so good.


However, for some reason that I've never explored until this week, my 
wife's "fixed amount" is 28 cents more than mine. It's always been 
that way (25+ years now), and I always wondered, but never investigated.


Yesterday I finally investigated. Turns out, the extra 28 cents is in 
the part labeled "fees and government charges". Looking into that a 
little more finds a fee called "Palo Alto City UUT" in the amount of, 
you guessed it, 28 cents.


Now, if I lived in the city of Palo Alto, I might consider that 
normal. However, we don't live in the city of Palo Alto.


In fact, we don't even live in the same county as Palo Alto. While 
Palo Alto is relatively close, it IS in the next county. Is this even 
legal? How can a city in the next county charge my wife's phone (and 
not mine) a utility tax?


Have any of you looked in your Verizon bill lately?




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Re: [AFMUG] SFP questions

[Trey Scarborough]

yes there are several 1/10G optics and several vendors that support it 
both rates in a SFP+ port Mikrotik, Ciena, Juniper, Nokia, etc


On 9/26/2021 4:54 PM, TJ Trout wrote:

Sorry I meant some optics can do both 1g & 10g

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 11:16 AM Trey Scarborough <mailto:t...@3dsc.co>> wrote:


correct

On 9/25/2021 2:53 AM, TJ Trout wrote:

depends if it's 10g or 1g/10g right?

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 10:17 PM Trey Scarborough mailto:t...@3dsc.co>> wrote:

No a SFP+ will power up and might even show RX of light, but
never come up. It works the other way around to if you put a
SFP in a SFP+ they will often come up and even show RX light
at both ends but will not link up. If its not a dual rate
1/10G SFP+ that could cause issues. Some don't care, but many
don't work too well if you try to run them at slower speeds.

On 9/24/2021 6:39 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

All documentation I find says it's only sfp. But if it
doesnt workwouldnt it not ID or power?

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021, 6:22 PM Mathew Howard
mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Will an sfp+ module generally work in an sfp port? I'd
be surprised if the Integra has sfp+

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021, 4:33 PM mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

If you don’t have a ferrule cleaner you can wipe off
the ends of the patch cable with an alcohol wipe,
but I have no idea how you clean the female
connectors without the tool.

-Adam

*From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>>
*Sent:* Friday, September 24, 2021 5:18 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] SFP questions

That “Rx Lose” checkbox at the top on the Mikrotik
means there’s no Rx signal.

The other device shows Rx power of 0

If you know it’s physically connected, but there’s
no Rx signal on either end then I’d wonder if you
need to flip-flip the tx/rx on one end.  …..sounds
like you already tried that though.

Did you clean the connectors?  A spec of invisible
dirt can stop you.


https://www.amazon.com/Cleaning-1-25mm-Ferrule-Connectors-Cleaner/dp/B07Z2ST9GD

<https://www.amazon.com/Cleaning-1-25mm-Ferrule-Connectors-Cleaner/dp/B07Z2ST9GD>

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of
*Steve Jones
*Sent:* Friday, September 24, 2021 5:04 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] SFP questions

Im using my SFPs I have for the Aviat radios to
connect between a SAF integra and a CRS309.

There are two integras 2+0, we lost the original
switch that had the original SFPs in them. So I took
the horizontal radio SFP and paired it in the CRS
and that radio links up fine.

However, the SFPs I have for the Aviats dont seem to
work. At first I figured it was just incompatibility
(I dont recall if the Integra is SFP or SFP+, these
are SFP+)

In the attached image, both units recognize the SFP
and claim to be transmitting light. Even if there
was incompatibility with the SFP, shouldnt there be
an RX? or if they cant negotiate for whatever reason
would it not show an RX?

I did swap the Fiber ends, I havent tried a
different cable, though this was brand new from Aviat.

Would I be correct to assume that if the Devices
populate the info fields, then the SFP should at
least connect, even if the the data channel
doesnt work due to incompatibility with the hardware?

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Re: [AFMUG] SFP questions

[Trey Scarborough]

correct

On 9/25/2021 2:53 AM, TJ Trout wrote:

depends if it's 10g or 1g/10g right?

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 10:17 PM Trey Scarborough <mailto:t...@3dsc.co>> wrote:


No a SFP+ will power up and might even show RX of light, but never
come up. It works the other way around to if you put a SFP in a
SFP+ they will often come up and even show RX light at both ends
but will not link up. If its not a dual rate 1/10G SFP+ that could
cause issues. Some don't care, but many don't work too well if you
try to run them at slower speeds.

On 9/24/2021 6:39 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

All documentation I find says it's only sfp. But if it doesnt
workwouldnt it not ID or power?

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021, 6:22 PM Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Will an sfp+ module generally work in an sfp port? I'd be
surprised if the Integra has sfp+

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021, 4:33 PM mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

If you don’t have a ferrule cleaner you can wipe off the
ends of the patch cable with an alcohol wipe, but I have
no idea how you clean the female connectors without the tool.

-Adam

*From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>>
*Sent:* Friday, September 24, 2021 5:18 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] SFP questions

That “Rx Lose” checkbox at the top on the Mikrotik means
there’s no Rx signal.

The other device shows Rx power of 0

If you know it’s physically connected, but there’s no Rx
signal on either end then I’d wonder if you need to
flip-flip the tx/rx on one end. …..sounds like you
already tried that though.

Did you clean the connectors?  A spec of invisible dirt
can stop you.


https://www.amazon.com/Cleaning-1-25mm-Ferrule-Connectors-Cleaner/dp/B07Z2ST9GD

<https://www.amazon.com/Cleaning-1-25mm-Ferrule-Connectors-Cleaner/dp/B07Z2ST9GD>

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Friday, September 24, 2021 5:04 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] SFP questions

Im using my SFPs I have for the Aviat radios to connect
between a SAF integra and a CRS309.

There are two integras 2+0, we lost the original switch
that had the original SFPs in them. So I took the
horizontal radio SFP and paired it in the CRS and that
radio links up fine.

However, the SFPs I have for the Aviats dont seem to
work. At first I figured it was just incompatibility (I
dont recall if the Integra is SFP or SFP+, these are SFP+)

In the attached image, both units recognize the SFP and
claim to be transmitting light. Even if there was
incompatibility with the SFP, shouldnt there be an RX? or
if they cant negotiate for whatever reason would it not
show an RX?

I did swap the Fiber ends, I havent tried a different
cable, though this was brand new from Aviat.

Would I be correct to assume that if the Devices populate
the info fields, then the SFP should at least connect,
even if the the data channel doesnt work due to
incompatibility with the hardware?

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Re: [AFMUG] SFP questions

[Trey Scarborough]

No a SFP+ will power up and might even show RX of light, but never come 
up. It works the other way around to if you put a SFP in a SFP+ they 
will often come up and even show RX light at both ends but will not link 
up. If its not a dual rate 1/10G SFP+ that could cause issues. Some 
don't care, but many don't work too well if you try to run them at 
slower speeds.


On 9/24/2021 6:39 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
All documentation I find says it's only sfp. But if it doesnt 
workwouldnt it not ID or power?


On Fri, Sep 24, 2021, 6:22 PM Mathew Howard > wrote:


Will an sfp+ module generally work in an sfp port? I'd be
surprised if the Integra has sfp+

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021, 4:33 PM mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

If you don’t have a ferrule cleaner you can wipe off the ends
of the patch cable with an alcohol wipe, but I have no idea
how you clean the female connectors without the tool.

-Adam

*From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>>
*Sent:* Friday, September 24, 2021 5:18 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] SFP questions

That “Rx Lose” checkbox at the top on the Mikrotik means
there’s no Rx signal.

The other device shows Rx power of 0

If you know it’s physically connected, but there’s no Rx
signal on either end then I’d wonder if you need to flip-flip
the tx/rx on one end.  …..sounds like you already tried that
though.

Did you clean the connectors?  A spec of invisible dirt can
stop you.


https://www.amazon.com/Cleaning-1-25mm-Ferrule-Connectors-Cleaner/dp/B07Z2ST9GD



*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Friday, September 24, 2021 5:04 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] SFP questions

Im using my SFPs I have for the Aviat radios to connect
between a SAF integra and a CRS309.

There are two integras 2+0, we lost the original switch that
had the original SFPs in them. So I took the horizontal radio
SFP and paired it in the CRS and that radio links up fine.

However, the SFPs I have for the Aviats dont seem to work. At
first I figured it was just incompatibility (I dont recall if
the Integra is SFP or SFP+, these are SFP+)

In the attached image, both units recognize the SFP and claim
to be transmitting light. Even if there was incompatibility
with the SFP, shouldnt there be an RX? or if they cant
negotiate for whatever reason would it not show an RX?

I did swap the Fiber ends, I havent tried a different cable,
though this was brand new from Aviat.

Would I be correct to assume that if the Devices populate the
info fields, then the SFP should at least connect, even if the
the data channel doesnt work due to incompatibility with the
hardware?

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Re: [AFMUG] OT border control

[Trey Scarborough]

There already are "Guest Worker" at least for agriculture. Migrant 
worker programs that do not required to have a full work visa for 
seasonal work. I don't think it would be hard to change the program to 
be for temporary work.


On 9/22/2021 5:38 PM, Robert wrote:
I just love the politicians everywhere that won't approve such a 
thing, but I think it's self serving.  Make them legit and they can 
actually price themselves what they are worth, illegal they get 1/2..


On 9/22/21 11:26 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


It's reasons like that that make the whole concept of a border wall 
such a fantasy. If there was such a thing as a guest worker program 
(or any of several variations on that concept), I think we could go a 
long way toward fixing he border problem.


bp

On 9/22/2021 11:17 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I would love to see an easy worker visa.  Pass a background check, 
get 6 months.  Renews every 6 months as long as you keep your nose 
clean.
I had to shut down my microtrenching operation due to the fact that 
I could not hire enough to keep it running and making money at the 
same time.
I needed at least 22-25 on a crew and we were chronically at the 
15-18 person level.  Toward the end I would hire anyone that would 
actually show for an interview.  We would have 25 apply and most 
agree to an interview, lucky if one actually showed up and half of 
them were a no call no show the first day of work.  So sick of white 
millennials with no driver’s licenses that have to take off mid week 
for drug court/meeting/testing etc.    I was all for giving them a 
leg up and learning a career but you can’t run a company with 
nothing but that for your hiring pool.
I actually had a Hispanic guy offer to hook me up with a “group” 
that would promise lots of good workers. A small regular 
contribution was required... I turned down that generous offer...
The microtrenching crews that are 100% Mexican or 100% poly are 
kicking butt.

*From:* Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 22, 2021 12:08 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT border control
Humm, I thought the caption was funny.  Did not expect to touch a 
nerve.

*From:* Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 22, 2021 11:06 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT border control
Those are saguaros in the background...so that picture is wrong...on 
so many levels..
Whipping people off horseback is reminiscent of how Texas Rangers 
treated Mexicans and Native Americans into the 1900s...

The folks already across the river are on US soil and have rights.
Biden isn't scoring points...unlike Trumpicans, i call it as i see 
it...you fuck up, i call it... Trumpabbot is a fucking Taliban like 
moron...
Mexico is flying them out of area now to asylum compound south and 
also flying some back to Haiti ...

It's a sad situation...
And to all those so called GOP bible thumpers...not very Christ like...
Bad situation all around..
Fire retardant suit on...
On Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 10:06 AM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:


image
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Re: [AFMUG] extending Calix GPON via RF

[Trey Scarborough]

Not possible on an RF level that I know of but I have done some testing 
with the Tbit SFP+ XGSpon ONT. Waiting on a microwave 80ghz link with a 
10GSFP+ port to test running it directly with a SFP+ DAC extender so it 
doesn't require an additional switch just DC and fiber to the radio.


On 9/8/2021 3:57 PM, Carl Peterson wrote:
I've looked but never found such a beast.  i would love this, even for 
a few hundred meters.  Look into an E3 GPON.  Easier than a full cabinet


On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 2:10 PM Chuck McCown via AF > wrote:


I am sure this has been discussed before but not finding it.
I need to extend service to a small cluster of new homes being
built.  About 18 homes.
Too far to get there with fiber right now.  Maybe in a few years.
So I want to extend my system up to them.  Will take a repeater. 
So need to probably haul a gig up there on point to point.
I would prefer to be able to serve these customers with Calix
GPON.  I could put an E2 system up there and feed it with
ethernet.  But it seems someone has come up with a way to extend
an actual OLT/OIM type of signal via RF and put it back on the
fiber such that the ONU thinks it is talking back to my E7-20
shelf at my C.O.
Does any of this sound familiar?
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*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707


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Re: [AFMUG] affordable splicer

[Trey Scarborough]

They AI-9s are pretty good only issue I have with them is the having to 
have the app installed on a phone for some of the necessary functions. 
The app has some cool functionality, but I tend to like less complicated 
basic stuff. If your not doing any SOCs "Splice on connectors I 
recommend the DVP-740. Its a Chinese clone of a Fugikura you can find 
them on aliexpress for around $800 shipped. If your doing SOCs then the 
Orientek T44 both surprisingly come with descent cleavers. These are 
very basic function splicers.


On 9/7/2021 1:01 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
i was actually looking at that one. I didnt figure a sub 1k splicer 
would be any good. Any issues with it?


On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 12:58 PM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote:


We have 5 of these:

https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Automatic-Intelligent-Optical-Splicing/dp/B07V353SJ7/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1=fusion+splicer=1631037354=8-1-spons=1=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFGRUs5VE1LOURCM1AmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTEwMzE3NzIzNEg2UzdSNTkyM1hCJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAwNzYzNDMzRjRVODJZR1dQQzVCJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==



They are cheap enough that they go in every truck.

Buy a better cleaver.  The splicing is easy if the cleaves are good.


https://www.techtoolsupply.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=INNO-V7P=googleps=Cj0KCQjwm9yJBhDTARIsABKIcGakFTCK6mQ24nnzLApab29qL8ivAjjWVrnPWzr3FsuHB4mQhdIs5N4aAm2mEALw_wcB



That’s not a bad cleaver.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-999-7000
http://www.brazoswifi.com 

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 7, 2021 12:06 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] affordable splicer

what are some decent models that arent 5k+ for a guy with bad eyes
that never remembers to go get his glasses from the doctors office?

I havent done enough splicing to know what im looking for

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Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

[Trey Scarborough]

If its just an EPMP radio and 400' the Tik GPER will work fine. Yes more 
likely to to go dead in a thunderstorm though.


On 9/1/2021 12:26 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
thats what i suggested trying first, customer wanted the extender, 
irritating


he finally has caved now and will be putting a network rack in the 
midpoint and is going to place a managed switch there instead of all 
this other unsupportable cobbling. Sometimes we get a win.


On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 11:55 AM Adam Moffett > wrote:


Maybe a dumb question, but has it already been tried without the
extender?

400ft is beyond 100m, but not by all that much.  It might just
work without any faffing around.


On 9/1/2021 11:16 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

I have a customer fixed on using
https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/GPeRqg_190928.pdf
 to extend
his epmp f300 radio run to 400+ feet.
if im calculating this right there will be about a 10v drop on
the 24guage cat5, taking the 30v down to 20. If it does manage to
keep the radio powered i see it burning out the poe circuit.

hes fighting me on putting the cambium PSU at the midspan point
and using his own POE to power the extender.

Ive been overruled about telling the customer no, so its
happening, but I want to make sure my math is correct
using
https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html

24guage, 30v, .5 amp, 400 feet shows 10v drop. but im not sure
about the resistivity field

this is a guy who runs constant latency monitoring and initiates
tickets on every blip, so i see this radio move just becoming a
nightmare with this midspan extender in play

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Re: [AFMUG] OT commies

[Trey Scarborough]

Its really sad that this has been politicized as much as it has it makes 
it almost next to impossible to find any true data on the topic as each 
side wants to either hide and coverup information that makes ill light 
of their view, or release some meaningless information just to scare 
people in to going their way. Personally as far as vaccinations are 
concerned that's a personal choice and as with masks if you chose to 
wear one or not just don't make a big deal out of it either way. If some 
business wants to require everyone show proof they have skydived in a 
snorkel thats within there rights long as its not discriminatory.


I find it interesting you used the "no shirt no shoes no service" 
analogy and it is spot on the money for this topic. There has never been 
any law or code that enforces the no shirt no shoes policy however. The 
history of this standard policy businesses have implemented in the past 
were to slide under discrimination laws.  After the Civil rights act 
businesses would post these signs to keep poorer people from being able 
to enter their businesses mainly directed at minorities. Then again in 
the 70s to keep the no shirt no shoes long haired hippies out. I find it 
now that the mask mandates have been lifted it is used to keep people of 
certain political beliefs out by either requiring them or by making it 
blatant you don't want to see anyone in one. It's a new interesting age 
we live in were discrimination for race, religion, and sexual behaviors 
have all taken a back seat to the all mighty political view.


On 5/18/2021 11:07 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Yellow fever vaccination is required for entry to many countries.  
Nobody questions that...
Shoes and shirts are required for entry to restaurants. Nobody 
questions that...

*From:* David Coudron
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 18, 2021 9:55 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT commies

I hear what you are saying Bill. Surprising it has become such a 
politically divided topic.  However, I remember when our kids were 
little and we went through the normal course of decisions on 
vaccinations.  Most were no brainers, chicken pox, measles etc.   But 
our daughter hit her teens right as the HPV vaccination was coming 
out.  I remember talking about the risk of HPV and the newness of the 
vaccine with our doctor and with my wife’s sister and brother in law 
who are both doctors.   Based on this we made our own decision for our 
daughter based on risk of disease versus risk of vaccination.   That 
seemed like a good approach at the time.   Our current situation isn’t 
like that since the government is pushing the vaccinations so hard, 
which is why I think folks see this as political topic.  Not looking 
to start a Lent thread, but I suspect the politics of vaccination are 
going to be with us as long as political resources such and governors 
and federal officials are commenting on vaccination and even making 
policy based on vaccination status.


I remember an uncle telling me once, being forced to do something 
makes people feel much differently about doing it.   He said “giving 
money in the collection plate at church is something you know you 
should do, and when you do it on your own, you feel good about it.   
However if someone forces you to do it, whether by taking the money 
from your pocket, or not letting you go to church unless you give at 
the collection plate, you don’t feel the same about it.  It is still 
the right thing to do, but that good thing leaves a bad taste in your 
mouth.  Most people will do the right thing in their own time.”


Regards,

David Coudron

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 18, 2021 10:24 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT commies

I can not for the life of me figure out how getting vaccinated has 
turned into some kind of political discussion.


bp


On 5/18/2021 8:19 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

A local popular restaurant that has survived the last year on take
out orders is opening to in store dining with no social
distancing.  But you have to show your shot card to get in.  I
reduced and laminated mine.  After news broke of this they are
getting death threats and are being accused of being commies.

The posted to facebook the rules and mention that no, you will
have to actually pay for the food as they are not true commies. 
My wife and I plan to be there this week.

We found some red hammer and sickle shirts to wear for the event.

Excellent gumbo, jambalaya and a mix called gumbayala.  Gumbayla
is a heart stopper...

*From:*Steve Jones

*Sent:*Tuesday, May 18, 2021 8:41 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Jaime, look

I think mexico could overtake the US economy if they made a tamale
push and hired Mexican aunts to make tamales full time.

We could flush out all the commies too. Anybody who doesnt like

Re: [AFMUG] OT: New home office

[Trey Scarborough]

wow I love the idea of everything up high. I wish mine was that way 
maybe the next office One of my kids favorite spots is on the Dog 
beds unfortunately I have fluffy shedding dogs and after too many times 
getting fluff all over the cloths that had to stop. Unfortunately I have 
not had the same luck keeping the dogs off the kids furniture.


On 5/18/2021 9:46 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
small 9x10 office in my garage I can control with a small space heater 
and window air conditione


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Re: [AFMUG] 5G Site?

[Trey Scarborough]

5G/4G/26G cant really tell from the picture the equipment is too hard to 
tell. Its small cell they are going up everywhere...


On 5/2/2021 2:53 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

Spotted these downtown yesterday evening.
.they are going up every few blocks on streets like street 
lamps...some have different type antennas but all have three, so i am 
assuming 120° sectored...

Lots of fiber interconnect between them..
What's your thoughts Hobson?

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Re: [AFMUG] GPON through MUX?

[Trey Scarborough]

yes you can do this I have in some areas where I can lease Dark fiber in 
a PON setup from the community fiber provider. However I wouldn't 
recommend it for a standard setup It will require you to put filters at 
every one of you endpoints. You have to filter out all other channels 
going to the customer on most equipment because they don't filter out RX.



On 4/2/21 3:28 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Pretty sure you can just use the right wdm equipment and do this.  I 
know I have seen power points from Calix showing how you layer GPON 
with NGPON, NGPON_2, NGPON-3 etc etc on the same strand.


It would be similar to a diplex filter I would think.

-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, April 2, 2021 2:15 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: [AFMUG] GPON through MUX?

Why isn't there a MUX that carries GPON on one port and then also allows
me a few ethernet paths on other wavelengths?  I feel like this would be
a really useful thing for people leasing dark fiber, so I can't fathom
why it's not a commodity item.





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Re: [AFMUG] Power outages

[Trey Scarborough]

Yep that is the deal most homes are either heat pump or Natural Gas. The 
Natural Gas hs had issues keeping up to causing heaters to run longer 
using more electricity. Yes is gets hot in the summers max though on 
average is 110 deg F if you cool your house to 75 then your only looking 
at a 35 deg temperature deference. So since about 2 am Monday morning at 
my house it has been bellow 10 deg F if you heat your house to 60 then 
that is a 50+ deg temperature differential. Combine that with poorly 
insulated homes most builders build here (code isn't near as strict as 
places up north like NY or Wisconsin) .


I've been keeping my house around 55deg and already had 1/2 my plumping 
freeze up even with the faucets dripping. Mainly because all the pipes 
are in the attic without insulation. Luckily my hot water heaters are in 
between the two furnaces so hopefully they won't freeze up before 
Friday. Told the wife when we bought this house it was built poorly, but 
she thought it looked pretty so guess what we did... Now she always 
complains about the power and gas bills I just bite my lip most times.



On 2/15/2021 8:37 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
A Air Conditioner or Heat Pump nominally provides about 3-5KW of 
cooling or heating for every 1 KW it uses in electricity.   Texas has 
a lot of heat pumps that don’t work well or at all when temperatures 
get into the teens and they switch to a straight electric resistance 
heat.   Electric usage triples (or worse) when the heat pump goes to 
resistance heat.  That never happens with Air Conditioning in the summer.


Mark

On Feb 15, 2021, at 8:56 PM, Steve Jones > wrote:


I dont understand the rolling blackouts. its hot as balls in texas in 
the summer so youd figure peak demand with all the AC then is well 
over what it is in the winter. Whats stepping up the winter demand? 
are you guys mostly electric heat and hot water or something there?


We maybe see some brownout here in peak summer, but winter its never 
an issue other than storm damage outages because we never learn to 
harden anything here


On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 7:07 PM Ron M. > wrote:


My home in Fort Stockton has been out for going on 8 hours now,
and TNMP says repair time is 5pm tomorrow.

I'm in Austin, so won't be back out west until the weekend. At
least I've got someone looking after the house while I'm gone.

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 5:39 PM Jaime Solorza
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

El Paso Electric which serves our area and Southern New
Mexico is not part of the other Texas utilities experiencing
rolling power outages.  Back in 2011 we had power outages and
water pipe damage.  Both utilities took steps to prove
systems with anti-freeze technology and all types of sensors.
We installed several sensors and links for many of these
projects years ago.
As of 6:00pm today only 3,000 customers lost power for five
minutes.
Hope you guys are safe.


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Re: [AFMUG] 8-12 SFP port non-MT switch?

[Trey Scarborough]

Ciena 3930 would fit they are not necessarily fanless, but they are ETR 
rated and I have run them in small boxes.


On 2/3/2021 11:16 AM, Dev wrote:

I have a friend looking for a fanless 8-12 SFP cage switch/router, preferrably 
with a single 10G SFP uplink interface, something smaller than rack mount and 
not Mikrotik to mount in remote cabinets where he needs more fiber out of a 
single backhaul strand. Any suggestions? He’s looking at Juniper, etc. but 
hasn’t found a match.



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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik 1072 Frustrations

[Trey Scarborough]

I run all of mine that are mission critical in a dual set up so that at 
any time they will automatically or can manually be switched to the 
secondary. I do this not only with Mikrotik, but any platform that 
doesn't have redundant controllers/switch fabric.


Richard,

    I have recently reviewed both Juniper and Nokia BNG "Broadband 
Network Gateway" router platforms. They are rather expensive to get in 
to but for massive CGNAT and subscriber management I don't think 
anything else comes close. The Nokia of course is the priciest, but it 
is ridiculous what they can do I've been working on them for years for 
metro Ethernet, but just recently tried out the BNG feature set and 
hands down the best. The Juniper is much easier to get in to as well as 
possible in a smaller form factor.


Trey

On 12/21/2020 10:22 AM, Richard Strittmatter wrote:


Yup.. we have several 1072s passing 10+GB that reboot randomly.. we’ve 
had to distribute traffic across several to keep the load down to 7-8, 
and then they don’t..


Replaced them, upgraded, went through the MT support same 
recommendations.. no answers.. I have 2 extras sitting on my shelf for 
when they tank.. just a matter of time.


Also whatever you do, don’t torch a 10gb connection.. every time we’ve 
tried, they’ve locked hard..


At this point, we are reviewing options on higher end / different 
hardware for the CG-NAT side of things.


Richard Strittmatter

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Kenney
*Sent:* Sunday, December 20, 2020 11:37 PM
*To:* af 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Mikrotik 1072 Frustrations

MIkrotik has been rock solid for me for years.  Until this year and 
the 1072's.  Random reboots set off by watchdog timer on all of my 
1072's.  Some more than others. Threads in the forum all discuss the 
same problem exactly.  Its a connection tracking issue.. however I 
need connection tracking on one particular router.  I've adjusted 
everything I could.  Firmware and board firmware all up to date etc.  
Happens randomly with low levels of traffic,  high levels of traffic,  
sometimes a couple times a day,  sometimes weeks.  No DDOS evidence at 
all from upstream routers.  Configs checked and rechecked by third 
party experts.  I graph everything about the Mikrotik and there are no 
clues or anything abnormal happening before the crash.  Plenty of 
memory, disk space,  CPU etc.    Replaces all the trannies, power 
cables and such.  Not running BGP only OSPF on the one that is giving 
me the most trouble.


Even have a serial console cable plugged into them to my opengear and 
set it to log pretty much everything to console including the kernel 
and nothing.  A hard freeze.


Then there is Mikrotik support...  I've never needed their support 
before until now.  So I put a ticket in and the shitty attitude I'm 
getting from them seems like they KNOW there is something wrong with 
the hardware and they are intentionally not being helpful.  It is 
pretty clear to see with all the people reporting this issue that 
there IS an issue.


If this is any indication of how things are going to go with Mikrotik 
on the newer hardware going forware I think its time to jump to an 
enterprise level system. Juniper most likely.  Shame because they are 
just about keeping up with the demands with their hardware. Getting 
closer to 100Gbps etc and ROS7 ... but at their current pace I think 
we've outgrew them.


All the threads discussing this issue has been absolutely quiet when 
it comes to Mikrotik jumping in to mention or try to help 
troubleshoot.  I think they know they had bad hardware out there and 
do not want to honor warranties.  I've heard rumors of bad batches of 
1072's.


Anyone else encounter this?

Image removed by sender. logo 

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*STEVEN KENNEY *
*DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL CONNECTIVITY & CONTINUITY **A: 158 Erie St. N | 
Leamington ON

E: st...@wavedirect.org | P: 519-737-9283
W: www.wavedirect.net*


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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik 1072 Frustrations

[Trey Scarborough]

I really haven't seen these issues. I would say its more likely if you 
don't beat them and expect them to do more than they can they will work 
for you well. If you try to beat them in to submission they will just 
fall over and play dead.


On 12/21/2020 10:36 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:

Reading this thread is like listening to somebody in an abusive relationship: "... 
if I treat him right, he won't hit me. The problem is just that I can't figure out that 
sets him off..."
  
You know what the solution to that problem is.


Jared
  
  


Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020
From: "Colin Stanners" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik 1072 Frustrations

This last year, I've seen a MikroTik CCR1072 switch from long being rock-solid to 
now having occasional random reboots (from watchdog) or 100% CPU usage, which 
strangles the BGP process. In the latter case, tools->profile would show the 
firewall taking 100% of CPU, even after temporarily disabling all firewall filter 
and NAT rules and connection tracking. Not fun.
  
MT tech support did not seem super helpful or interested, mostly recommending to disable watchdog (unacceptable on a production router) or to upgrade firmware (without specifying the suspected cause of the problem or nature of the fix).
  
Tried 1 update, that didn't seem to help, have now tried another...


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 11:38 PM Steven Kenney 
mailto:st...@wavedirect.org]> wrote:

MIkrotik has been rock solid for me for years.  Until this year and the 1072's. 
 Random reboots set off by watchdog timer on all of my 1072's.  Some more than 
others.  Threads in the forum all discuss the same problem exactly.  Its a 
connection tracking issue.. however I need connection tracking on one 
particular router.  I've adjusted everything I could.  Firmware and board 
firmware all up to date etc.  Happens randomly with low levels of traffic,  
high levels of traffic,  sometimes a couple times a day,  sometimes weeks.  No 
DDOS evidence at all from upstream routers.  Configs checked and rechecked by 
third party experts.  I graph everything about the Mikrotik and there are no 
clues or anything abnormal happening before the crash.  Plenty of memory, disk 
space,  CPU etc.    Replaces all the trannies, power cables and such.  Not 
running BGP only OSPF on the one that is giving me the most trouble.
  
Even have a serial console cable plugged into them to my opengear and set it to log pretty much everything to console including the kernel and nothing.  A hard freeze.
  
Then there is Mikrotik support...  I've never needed their support before until now.  So I put a ticket in and the shitty attitude I'm getting from them seems like they KNOW there is something wrong with the hardware and they are intentionally not being helpful.  It is pretty clear to see with all the people reporting this issue that there IS an issue.
  
If this is any indication of how things are going to go with Mikrotik on the newer hardware going forware I think its time to jump to an enterprise level system.  Juniper most likely.  Shame because they are just about keeping up with the demands with their hardware.  Getting closer to 100Gbps etc and ROS7 ... but at their current pace I think we've outgrew them.
  
All the threads discussing this issue has been absolutely quiet when it comes to Mikrotik jumping in to mention or try to help troubleshoot.  I think they know they had bad hardware out there and do not want to honor warranties.  I've heard rumors of bad batches of 1072's.
  
Anyone else encounter this?
  
  
  

  
[https://www.wavedirect.net/]

[https://www.facebook.com/ruralhighspeed] 
[https://www.instagram.com/wave.direct/]  
[https://www.linkedin.com/company/wavedirect-telecommunication/]  
[https://twitter.com/wavedirect1]  [https://www.youtube.com/user/WaveDirect]  
STEVEN KENNEY
DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL CONNECTIVITY & CONTINUITY A: 158 Erie St. N | Leamington ON
E: st...@wavedirect.org[mailto:st...@wavedirect.org] | P: 519-737-9283
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Re: [AFMUG] "Long-haul" Fiber DWDM equipment needs

[Trey Scarborough]

Paul

    Try Packetlight, Ekinops, or possibly ADVA I really wouldn't 
recommend a FS DWDM solution for what you are looking at. Especially if 
you don't have a good knowledge of DWDM. It is most all manual balance 
stuff that takes a good amount of test equipment to maintain reliably. 
If you would like some assistance feel free to shoot me an email with 
some of your design and I can give you an idea and maybe work up some 
quotes for you.


Trey


On 10/25/2020 7:10 PM, Paul McCall wrote:


Yikes,  the extra 0 is not in the budget LOL

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Colin Stanners
*Sent:* Sunday, October 25, 2020 8:01 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Long-haul" Fiber DWDM equipment needs

Hi Paul, I think that Ciena is one of the bigger and most respected 
names out there, but you may need to add another zero at the end of 
the price tag compared to the FS solution.


On Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 6:56 PM Paul McCall > wrote:


Hey guys,

We are lighting up right away with a DWDM solution, hopping 3
times about 130 miiles total (2 regen points in the middle)

Have quotes from FS.COM  with their equipment. I
know they are general through of as “cost-effective”, but
wondering if they are the “best” choice

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Paul

*Paul McCall, President *

*Florida Broadband / PDMNet*

*658 Old Dixie Highway*

*Vero Beach, FL 32962*

*772-564-6800*

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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Auto Provisioning

[Trey Scarborough]

standard Zero touch no, one touch yes. I you unbox them and run a 
flashfig and then set them up to use a tr069 server you can do just 
anything you want from there.


On 10/25/2020 7:26 PM, Paul McCall wrote:

What Adam said 

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2020 11:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Auto Provisioning

I saw a Powerpoint presentation describing a setup like that. They had a 
website the customer logged into and they could customize a few specific things 
and that config was pushed down by the API.

Twenty years ago I would have tried that, but I think I've gotten lazier over 
time.  I'd rather buy something where the problems are already figured out and 
solved.  If you wanna go tackle that tiger then you must have eaten your 
Wheaties cuz you're more energetic than I am.


On 10/24/2020 5:02 PM, Jesse DuPont wrote:

For config file management, someone smarter than me could probably
whip something out using Python or PHP to manage config files on an
HTTP server (that fetched connected to) and handle a fixed number of
configurable items (like SSID, etc.). Even doing port forwards this
way wouldn't be that difficult to handle.

I suppose an alternative to having the router go pull its config would
be to use the API to push it - UNIMUS might be more cost
effective/less troublesome in the end.

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Re: [AFMUG] Ciena 3930 Power Question

[Trey Scarborough]

I can confirm as well the Ciena power supplies are isolated I have used 
the same ones on +24 and -48v. I have many of these installed.


On 10/22/2020 9:31 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
A quick check with the multimeter shows the +/- terminals isolated 
from the ground.


Markings on the supply say 20-60VDC.   As long as you get polarity 
correct I believe they don’t care where the ground reference is.




Mark


On Oct 22, 2020, at 9:50 AM, Josh Baird > wrote:


Slim chance, but does anyone know if I can power a 3930 off of 
a +48VDC system?


The spec sheet says:  DC Input: -48, -36, +36, -24, +24 VDC (nominal)

Does it seem odd that it can accept -/+36 and 24, but not 48?

An AT tech installed a 3930 at one of our sites and wired it 
directly to our +48VDC ICT DC system, and it's working, but we don't 
have any other equipment (other than a MT) running off of this bus 
yet.  I'm worried that if we power something that isn't isolated (and 
expects +48VDC), we may release some smoke.


Should I just stick an isolated DC/DC converter in between the Ciena 
and our rectifier just to be safe?

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Re: [AFMUG] arin

[Trey Scarborough]

Ive had to do this before It can be very simple as X company agrees to 
provide 1Gbs internet transit to Y company and have both parties sign 
it. I have also just got the person that was an Arin contact for the 
upstream to confirm the agreement by SWIPing a block of addresses to my 
org.


On 10/15/2020 12:15 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I haven't got one yet.  And since I am partnered with my upstream 
provider I would have to write the agreement.


-Original Message- From: Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 10:55 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] arin

This isn’t something you write - this is a copy of an invoice or 
contract with one of your upstream providers showing you are in the US.


Mark


On Oct 15, 2020, at 12:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I need:

(1) To verify that your organization has connectivity and is 
providing services within the ARIN region, please scan and attach a 
copy of your signed connectivity agreement or current bill with at 
least one of your Internet Service Providers. Please ensure the 
document(s) include the page that indicates the two parties, the page 
indicating a connection is being provisioned, and the signature pages 
of the contract. Everything else can be redacted. You do not have to 
share with us any terms, pricing, etc.


Anyone have any boilerplate connectivity agreements I could use for a 
template?


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Re: [AFMUG] OT - cone of silence

[Trey Scarborough]

I would buy it if it had one way glass and had sound cancellation I 
would wear it on every flight. Well that is if it has a drink hole.


On 9/24/2020 10:58 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Chuck, I know you like the cone of silence from Get Smart.  I keep 
getting ads for this thing:


https://microclimate.com/ 

I can’t decide if it’s goofy or creepy or what.  Maybe it’s a joke but 
looks like it’s a real thing.  Hi there, I’m in my own personal 
bubble, literally.



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Re: [AFMUG] GPON over radio

[Trey Scarborough]

I am going to test using a 80 ghz radio with a 10G sfpp port ant a TiBit 
SFP OLT we will see how well it works. That is the closest solution to 
what I think you are looking for.



On 9/19/2020 10:29 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Anyone ever figured out how to take a gpon on fiber and run it over 
microwave radios/ethernet and back to gpon?


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Re: [AFMUG] Roasted chile from Hatch NM

[Trey Scarborough]

You got me thinking flights to ABQ are only $80 each way Cameron what do 
you say for a day trip so John can pick us up and take us to lunch ;)


On 9/16/20 11:24 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:

Which Golden Pride? Lomas?

On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 9:26 PM John Osmon <mailto:jos...@rigozsaurus.com>> wrote:


I'm sensing a chance at arbitrage.

What will you two bid for me to drive 5 minutes to Golden Pride
and ship
you some rolls?   :-)




On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 01:37:08PM -0500, Cameron Crum wrote:
> ...Frontier Cinnamon Rolls. Now I am drooling.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 3:01 AM Trey Scarborough mailto:t...@3dsc.co>> wrote:
>
> > Yeah it makes up for there lack of cream gravy on chicken
fried steak. Yet
> > you can get green chilies on that too. Man I really could use
that entire
> > drum of green chilies. Twice in my life I have lived in
Albuquerque and I
> > long for good green chilies and frontier cinnamon roles at
least once a
> > week.
> > On 9/13/2020 4:14 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
wrote:
> >
> > I love the fact that you can get hatch chilies on a McD
cheeseburger in
> > New Mexico.
> >
> > *From:* Jaime Solorza
> > *Sent:* Sunday, September 13, 2020 3:07 PM
> > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> > *Subject:* [AFMUG] Roasted chile from Hatch NM
> >
> > Sto
> >
> > --
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> >
> > --
> >
> > Trey Scarborough
> > VP Engineering
> > 3DS Communications LLC
> > p:9729741539
> >
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Re: [AFMUG] Roasted chile from Hatch NM

[Trey Scarborough]

Yeah it makes up for there lack of cream gravy on chicken fried steak. 
Yet you can get green chilies on that too. Man I really could use that 
entire drum of green chilies. Twice in my life I have lived in 
Albuquerque and I long for good green chilies and frontier cinnamon 
roles at least once a week.


On 9/13/2020 4:14 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I love the fact that you can get hatch chilies on a McD cheeseburger 
in New Mexico.

*From:* Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Sunday, September 13, 2020 3:07 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Roasted chile from Hatch NM
Sto


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Re: [AFMUG] LTE vendors

[Trey Scarborough]

0

stuff.   Normally we would add more tower sites for

better coverage, but this project will need to be
done

before the end of the year and building towers
isn’t an

option.   We have good enough spread on the
towers that

we think we can do this with PMP 450 APs, but are

thinking we’d get even better coverage out of
LTE.   Any

opinions on the reliability and the manageability
of the

four vendors above?   Sorry for such an open ended

question, but not sure what to ask to be more

specific.   We know that we will have the LTE
stuff to

deal with like access to an EPC and so on, so not so

much worried about that as more the manufacturers

themselves.   Baicells concerns us as they may get

lumped in with Huawei.





Thoughts?





Regards,





David Coudron









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Re: [AFMUG] VHLP3-11W sources

[Trey Scarborough]

I have a bunch of VHLP-3 Ceragon mount same antenna so if you have the 
aviat mount they will work. Shipping may be a bit to get them from 
texas, but I can let them go at a good price.


On 9/11/2020 4:38 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
Aviat is out of these antennas right now. looking to source 1-3 of 
these, but need to keep the price down on them, so a warehouse in IL 
or Eastern Iowa i or my contractor could maybe drive to pick them up 
from. They have the conversion kits in inventory, but antennas wont be 
in til later this month.


reaching out to our normal vendors but curious if anybody who knows 
more than me knows more than me



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Re: [AFMUG] QB for billing

[Trey Scarborough]

I have in the past integrated automated billing with quickbooks and a 
user management / ticket system. THe API isn't that hard to manage and 
it can be done.


On 8/13/2020 3:25 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Maybe, but I don’t wanting my billing system taking a dollar or two 
bite from every customer every month.  I would rather just buy it and 
own it.  And never have to pay for maint or upgrades...

*From:* Cameron Crum
*Sent:* Thursday, August 13, 2020 2:22 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] QB for billing
What is painless? I think it is less painful or more painless to start 
with something that will scale with the business. I know it isn't 
always fun, but better now than later when you are at a pain point 
that forces you to something else. I always found that people were 
flustered and ill prepared when it got to that point, and it resulted 
in mistakes being made and thus more pain. I'd say bite the bullet and 
go with something talyor made now. You'll be thankful down the road.

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 3:01 PM  wrote:

Has anyone tried to use Quickbooks for customer billing and
automatic ACH/credit card payments?
Looking for something painless to start with.
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Re: [AFMUG] Sports Streaming

[Trey Scarborough]

Well the jokes on them because now it has spread there too. I really 
think that the uptick in real estate is due to summer normal and people 
realizing they don't make enough money to live in what they have after 
loosing an income in there household for some extended period of time.  
In my household it has turned in to I can't buy a $7 hamburger now 
because I need to be saving money to buy the next bigger house because 
she isn't making as much any longer.  I try to explain that a $7 
hamburger a day only amounts to $2,500 a year so it doesn't 
significantly amount to anything. That doesn't go over well though


On 8/7/2020 1:54 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I also notice the real estate market is really hot right now.

I'm not sure if it's low mortgage rates, or people trying to move away from
Covid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umS3XM3xAPk


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, August 7, 2020 1:37 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sports Streaming

Gee, move even farther out from the city and you will have to drill your own
well and put in a septic tank.
Even farther and you will be doing off grid solar and generators.
Even farther you will have to commute with a helicopter.

Never understood folks that move out into the country but expect city type
of infrastructure.

-Original Message-
From: Nate Burke
Sent: Friday, August 7, 2020 12:33 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sports Streaming

I just had a guy this week move out of the city.  'I was getting 350mb for
what you want for 20mb, your price is too high'.  I refused to move.  He
signed up anyway.  Normal user traffic pattern of <5mb/s.

On 8/7/2020 1:23 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

My latest challenge (and the kids aren't even back to school yet) is
people wanting more upstream.  Because 3 people in the house are on
Zoom conferences, stuff like that.  Or they are live streaming events
on Facebook.

The other thing, maybe a trend, I'm getting customers saying this
other WISP is advertising a higher speed or a lower price, and wanting
me to match it.
I think it's similar to Nate's problem, people are wanting to do more
things (like 3 simultaneous Zoom calls) and have more devices and
streaming services, but they don't want to pay more.  So they shop
around, and want your steak to match a competitor's sizzle so they can
get more without paying more or doing any work.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, August 7, 2020 12:49 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sports Streaming

Yep, watched two partial baseball games in the last week.
The Houston/Arizona game had an odd audio artifact.
Sounded like they were broadcasting from inside a culvert.
It might have been a misguided effort to simulate crowd noise but it
was annoying.

No pixilation here.  I love that the computer now not only shows the
strike zone, but sometimes it calls balls and strikes as well as
giving the speed.

-Original Message-
From: Nate Burke
Sent: Friday, August 7, 2020 11:26 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: [AFMUG] Sports Streaming

I've seen a big uptick in traffic over the last 2 or 3 weeks. Aren't
major sports starting up again?  I'm guessing all the people who
switched to streaming only over the summer are now streaming the sports.

I've been dealing with one guy, he is on our lowest plan, and keeps
complaining that his sports are pixelated.  And he's just gotta have
sports and just doesn't understand why it's not working perfect on his
4k TV.  I can see he's maxed the connection 'My speed test is only
0.25mb and nothing in the house is running now, `still maxed traffic`,
well the TV is on'
I'm
guessing that the Variable bitrate codecs takes more for sports than
normal TV.  I told him to upgrade his package, he said he didn't want
to spend any more money on Internet.  He's on Hulu + live TV + Sports,
so that's already costing him more than what he's paying us, probably
close to what satellite costs.  Then He wanted to know what TV to buy
to make it stream better, I told him that wouldn't help.  Then he
wanted to know what WIFI extender to buy to make it stream better, I
told him that wouldn't help.  But he's claims he is on a tight budget
and can't afford any more for internet.  I told him to put up an
Antenna 'But then I can't get the sportsnet channel'
I told him to go find a new provider and stop calling me then.  'But
I don't like Comcast...'  Tough, but I'm not talking to you anymore if
you're complaining about streaming.  Priorities people have

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Re: [AFMUG] Good Switches

[Trey Scarborough]

Yes to all. Except hardware possibly depending on what you are using. A 
good portion of there hardware is just a whitebox with their software. 
EX T-Metro 7224 is a generic broadcom switch that was also used by Alcatel.



On 7/2/2020 12:09 PM, Charles Boening wrote:


Interesting. Appreciate the feedback.  We haven’t used any of their 
gear.  Most of our switching is various Juniper flavors backed by MX 
routers.


Anything in particular on the Telco Systems side that warrants the 
warning?  Bad support?  Bad hardware?  Bad software?  Full of crap! 


Thanks

__

*Charles Boening*

/Network Manager/

800-858-2399 | Office

charl...@calore.net <mailto:charl...@calore.net>

www.cot.net <http://www.cot.net/> | Find us on Facebook 
<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cal-Ore/205066716227707>


__

*Cal-Ore* | /Local. Trusted. Professional./

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Trey Scarborough
*Sent:* Thursday, July 2, 2020 7:55 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Good Switches

EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening attachments, clicking links, 
or sharing sensitive information.


Yeah I will second the run from telco systems.

On 7/1/2020 6:53 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

Run, forrest, run

*Gino**Villarini **
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204

aeronet-logo <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>



inc500 <https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet>



fb-logo <https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/>



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<https://bit.ly/BBoffer1>
www.aeronetpr.com <http://www.aeronetpr.com> | Metro Office Park
#18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968

*From: *AF 
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> on behalf of Charles Boening
 <mailto:charl...@calore.net>
*Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Date: *Wednesday, July 1, 2020 at 6:58 PM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Good Switches

Been looking at these guys. Never used them but pricing seems
competitive.

On the L3 side, they don't have DHCP relay or IPv6 features. They
are "roadmap" items they claim "should" be out by the end of the
year. Those are a deal breaker for us but YMMV. It's definitely a
switch/edge device and not targeted at core routing.

One thing I really like is the smaller form (<14" deep) and dual
-48VDC input. They have AC and 24VDC as well.


https://www.telco.com/products-by-category/ethernet-mpls-aggregation/t-metro-8104


-Original Message-
From: AF 
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 7:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Good Switches

EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening attachments, clicking
links, or sharing sensitive information.


So who's your preferred vendor for carrier switches?

Suppose you want to break away from buggy Latvian switches, who would
you look at today?

Ciena? Adtran? Cisco? Juniper?



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Re: [AFMUG] Error counters on SFP interfaces

[Trey Scarborough]

The switch/router should report the error. The SFP is just a blinky 
light for the most part, until you get into 100g coherent optics. Some 
things that may not report errors would be interface drops, but would be 
reported as a link down. I would really like it if mikrotik would 
implement a hold time/ port flap protection. Also reading more SFP 
detail would be nice so it would now alarm levels for the RX signal.


On 7/1/2020 10:53 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

n something is clearly wrong, why aren't errors reported? Is it:
1) Mikrotik interfaces never report errors to begin with?

2) My cheapo SFP's don't report an error to the host switch/router?

3) An error at the SFP is invisible to the host switch/router?


..and I'm not talking about optical problems because those are 
detectable with an OTDR pretty much 100% of the time. Talking 
specifically about issues with switches and SFP's.


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Re: [AFMUG] Good Switches

[Trey Scarborough]

This depends highly on what your looking for. If you are looking for 
something to use in a datacenter/office that is environmentally friendly 
then most of the juniper/cisco/brocade solutions will work another good 
one is dell.


If you want to retain something that wont die when the temperature gets 
high or loose fans in a dusty environment. If you only need basic L2 
then I would recommend the ciena 3928 they are pretty cost efficient 
with basic L2 license If you need more 10G ports there is the 5160.  If 
you are wanting IP features then I would go with Nokia 7210 MXP or for 
high capacity 10G and 100G 7250 IXR. I know most people would think they 
are crazy expensive, but they are less expensive than cisco with better 
features. They can go crazy on the support contracts if you get the full 
featured management platform NSP, but at the lowest level which would be 
most people its not to bad.



Trey


On 6/30/2020 9:28 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

So who's your preferred vendor for carrier switches?

Suppose you want to break away from buggy Latvian switches, who would 
you look at today?


Ciena? Adtran? Cisco? Juniper?




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Re: [AFMUG] Good Switches

[Trey Scarborough]

Yeah I will second the run from telco systems.

On 7/1/2020 6:53 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:


Run, forrest, run

*GinoVillarini
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
aeronet-logo <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> 	inc500 
<https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet> 	fb-logo 
<https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/> 	insta-logo 
<https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en> 	in-logo 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp> 	tw-logo 
<https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor> 
	yt-logo <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA> 	


<https://bit.ly/BBoffer1>
www.aeronetpr.com <http://www.aeronetpr.com> | Metro Office Park #18 
Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968


*From: *AF  on behalf of Charles Boening 


*Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Date: *Wednesday, July 1, 2020 at 6:58 PM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Good Switches

Been looking at these guys. Never used them but pricing seems competitive.

On the L3 side, they don't have DHCP relay or IPv6 features. They are 
"roadmap" items they claim "should" be out by the end of the year. 
Those are a deal breaker for us but YMMV. It's definitely a 
switch/edge device and not targeted at core routing.


One thing I really like is the smaller form (<14" deep) and dual 
-48VDC input. They have AC and 24VDC as well.


https://www.telco.com/products-by-category/ethernet-mpls-aggregation/t-metro-8104


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 7:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Good Switches

EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening attachments, clicking links, 
or sharing sensitive information.



So who's your preferred vendor for carrier switches?

Suppose you want to break away from buggy Latvian switches, who would
you look at today?

Ciena? Adtran? Cisco? Juniper?



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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Trey Scarborough]

Ive used mikrotik RB922UAGS-5HPacD with sfp and 2.4g R11e-2HPnD inside a 
metal enclosure and external antennas.


On 6/11/2020 4:03 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's 
part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it 
would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.


I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.

<http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/>

Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give 
me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two 
keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are 
that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody 
around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue we could 
track the usage to a particular site rather than just "somewhere in 
the park".



On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections 
and doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   
Don't even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post 
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be 
able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to 
do so.  And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi 
right outside their RV.


of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this 
together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this 
already.









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Re: [AFMUG] Vendors for "long haul" fiber

[Trey Scarborough]

Oh and I have seen better pricing from AFL and Infinera on passive muxes 
than FS. Both are US companies.


On 6/9/2020 1:39 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Passive mux’ is as cheap as you are going to find.  On the other end 
of the spectrum is Ciena, Lucent etc.  Big big dollars.

*From:* Paul McCall
*Sent:* Tuesday, June 9, 2020 12:17 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Vendors for "long haul" fiber

We are connecting to a DC using dark fiber that we need to light up 
with a DWDM solution, with one regen spot and one regular breakout 
spot.  We received quotes from Fiberstore.com and are looking for a 
2^nd quote “just because”.


I know FS is known as a good value, but didn’t know if there is 
another vendor we should be considering.


Paul

*Paul McCall, President *

*Florida Broadband / PDMNet*

*658 Old Dixie Highway*

*Vero Beach, FL 32962*

*772-564-6800*


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Re: [AFMUG] Vendors for "long haul" fiber

[Trey Scarborough]

Try Ekinops or packetlight It all depends on what you are trying to do. 
I have had some success with the fiberstore stuff and some nightmares. 
If you are wanting to move up to 100G+ I would go with another vendor 
just for support reasons. Also buy enough equipment that you have at 
least one spare for everything with FS...


You would be surprised what you might get for 20% more in cost. 
Depending on the number of channels you plan on using may be cheaper for 
a 100/200G with a 10x100G OTU4 card vis 10G per channel optics due to 
not having to have dispersion compensation. They have more of a fix gain 
type amp so make sure you have a full Fiber optic characterization with 
otdr, CMD, and PMD. It would suck to have the wrong equipment installed. 
That is if your looking in to an EDFA if they quoted an OTN system with 
transponders/sfps at each location to regen the signal, then definitely 
go with someone else...


Trey


On 6/9/2020 1:39 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Passive mux’ is as cheap as you are going to find.  On the other end 
of the spectrum is Ciena, Lucent etc.  Big big dollars.

*From:* Paul McCall
*Sent:* Tuesday, June 9, 2020 12:17 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Vendors for "long haul" fiber

We are connecting to a DC using dark fiber that we need to light up 
with a DWDM solution, with one regen spot and one regular breakout 
spot.  We received quotes from Fiberstore.com and are looking for a 
2^nd quote “just because”.


I know FS is known as a good value, but didn’t know if there is 
another vendor we should be considering.


Paul

*Paul McCall, President *

*Florida Broadband / PDMNet*

*658 Old Dixie Highway*

*Vero Beach, FL 32962*

*772-564-6800*


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Re: [AFMUG] OT OTA receivers

[Trey Scarborough]

I have used HDhomerun for years now you can run the recording software 
on a PC or it integrates with most DVR platforms MythTV, Plex, Kodi, etc.




On 5/17/2020 7:39 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I had the tivo for quite some time until it quit working and I didn’t 
want to spend the money for another one.
I switched to airTV and then converted it to Sling.  It is buggy.  
Does not always record what you tell it to, it will not allow fast 
forward on local channels and the audio level is much higher than all 
my other hdmi inputs like Roku.
So looking again for an ATA receiver.  Walmart has a really low cost 
unit that can record if you connect an external drive.  It allows time 
shift etc.
Does not stream over you network, you will have to have it connected 
to your display.  And you will have to feed it an RF TV signal.  But 
the whole streaming over the network by Tivo and Sling/AirTV has not 
exactly been flawless.
Anyone using anything else they really like?  One of my larger spots 
in the house to watch TV has a large monitor with no F connector.  So 
I need something there.  I would like something with a channel guide 
so that is one thing Sling does for me.



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Re: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out

[Trey Scarborough]

AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Up Tower

[Trey Scarborough]

I went down that route and its just easier to run separate fiber and 
power wires. Unless you are getting billed per wire up the tower its 
really not worth the added expense.


On 3/30/2020 4:46 PM, TJ Trout wrote:
I've been thinking of offering hybrid fiber / 12 awg copper 
pre-terminated cables... if anyone has a desire for such a thing, let 
me know the fiber count, connector type and lengths you would want...


On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 2:35 PM Matt <mailto:matt.mailingli...@gmail.com>> wrote:


What is everyone using for fiber up tower? What using for connectors?

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid measures at work

[Trey Scarborough]

I watch his series on speakers really like how he approaches things.

On 3/30/2020 10:15 AM, Robert wrote:

I like this guy, what do you think of him?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLWBG_fbJR0

On 3/30/20 7:47 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
From an MD friend of mine...Mix 1.5 cups everclear with 2/3 cup aloe 
gel. This gets you 62-65% ethanol. At my local liquor store, they had 
plenty of Everclear and it's cheap.




On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 11:52 PM Robert <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:


at 70 percent you better just wave the aloe over it because that
is going to need to be the end concentration to be an effective
solution...

On 3/28/20 9:13 PM, Doug Hass wrote:

Both of my local CVS stores have 70%. The higher percentage
stuff is really difficult to find.

For disinfectants, incidentally, vet supply companies have tons
of supply if you are running short of Lysol/etc. Stericide and
other brands are even still available on Amazon.

El El sáb, mar. 28, 2020 a la(s) 9:50 p. m., Tushar Patel
mailto:tpa...@ecpi.com>> escribió:

I want to know the same.

Tushar



On Mar 28, 2020, at 9:06 PM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:



Where are people finding masks, gloves, and sanitizer gel
or wipes?

Seems like none available online, and I don’t want to drive
to a dozen stores hoping to find some on the shelf.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Chris Fabien
*Sent:* Saturday, March 28, 2020 8:28 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid measures at work

Chuck, we came up with a very similar approach. No shared
trucks, no shared spaces like lunchrooms, our office
building only has 3-4 employees in a 3200 sqft building
with 4 restrooms so we are assigning a restroom to each
person and literally zero contact, call them on the phone
if you need something. OSP guys working solo as much as
possible. We are providing masks, gloves, sanitizer for the
techs with customer contact and avoiding in-home work as
much as possible although some amount is unavoidable. I set
up SMS on our office number so we can ask customers text us
a photo of your router, cords, cable you just cut in the
yard etc.

On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 11:52 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

I have stepped up our response to this at work.

Comments and suggestions are very much welcome.

1) Mechanic will work swing shift.  No overlap with day
shift employees.

2) PCB production stays in their part of the building.

3) Fabrication stay in their part of the building.

4) Avoid the lunchroom.

5) OSP construction one person per truck.

6) Bring lunch from home and eat it alone in the truck.

7) Vac excavators will have to do it with one person.
Much slower but safer.

8) More 2 way radio use to try to enforce the 10 foot rule.

Anything I can add?

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Network
hassd...@gmail.com <mailto:hassd...@gmail.com>
(847) 957-1061



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