Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

[Chuck McCown]

OH, I still have the MOSFET book and all my tab books.  It is just the books 
full of transistor and chip data sheets that I tossed.  

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 10:30 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

There are a few that I have that I haven't been able to find electronically and 
still refer to.   For example, the MOSFET data book I could never find 
anywhere, and I still occasionally will refer back to the wonderful discussion 
of MOSFET operation when needed (although it's been a while since I've needed 
to).   The archive I pointed toward has that one and I think the majority of 
the books I have. 

I also have a few old tab electronics books with cool old projects.  Haven't 
found those anywhere either.   

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 10:25 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  I tossed mine years ago, once I was sure they were available on CD.  

  The law firm I use still has a large law library.  
  It is where people go for some quiet or to eat lunch.  

  From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
  Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 10:20 PM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

  I've got a good collection still here in boxes, haven't had a chance to go 
through them yet.

  I think the plan will be to verify I have a .pdf copy of the ones I care of 
and then sell/discard/donate to the cause as appropriate.   

  On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 10:17 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Oh man!  I had forgotten how many different data manuals there were and I 
had most of them too.  
Wow

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 10:12 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

Chuck,

I'm sorry for the timesink I'm about to introduce you to:

http://www.bitsavers.org/components/motorola/_dataBooks/

http://www.bitsavers.org/components/ti/_dataBooks/

http://www.bitsavers.org/components/national/_dataBooks/


Or you can just go to www.bitsavers.org for even more time consumption.



On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Back in the day, I was a bona-fide SLIC expert.  Subscriber Line 
Interface Circuit.  I designed and built crap that interfaced with POTS lines.  
So I knew just about everything having to do with dial tone circuits.  Much of 
the stuff was learned by reading data manuals.  I had hundreds of them  Blue 
and brown from Motorola.  Yellow from Texas Instruments.  Gray from Maxim.  
Navy blue from National.  etc etc Good bed time readin’

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 9:19 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

  Out of curiousity, i learn this nonsense from folks in the know. Where do 
folks in the know learn this shit? Is it that they were involved in the day 
when people in the service industry knew what they were doing, or prior to 
mailing lists was there some analog solution center? Like did you old folks 
hang out near your telegraph listening to everybodies conversations? Does it 
boil down to some old chinese guy sending out coded messages or what? 
  Was at a customers joint the other day, an issue with ms rdp, end of the 
day, it boiled down to remote connectivity, had to disable a tertiary networks 
gpo printer and disable bitmap caching. I got this from google. Seperate 
threads and a brain connection that this was the second remote joint via vpn, 
and the two remote joints couldnt communicate.
  Customer noted the google use, i told him its cause we dont have manuals 
now.
  Is the truth that some chinese guy just answers all our google queries 
now and we are just corporate puppets?

  Is there only one really old rice eating fellow that actually knows the 
answers? What if he dies?
  Are we fucked if the chinaman dies?

  On Nov 9, 2017 4:46 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
 wrote:

If you have call waiting, you'll often hear the caller id 'data burp' 
after the first 'call is waiting' beep...

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Lewis Bergman  
wrote:

  Remember, the signal comes between rings. Unless you are listening on 
a butt set in line or watching the info pass through a switch you wouldn't see 
or hear it. The only reason I remembered between first and second is sitting at 
a class 5 switch trying to figure out why caller ID was failing on a feature 
group D trunk group and seeing them come through after one ringy dingy.

  On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 3:46 PM Adam Moffett  
wrote:

Is it at an inaudible frequency?  If so, then it wouldn't make it 
through 2600hz bandpass filters would it?  Or maybe it's audible, but so short 
you don't notice it? I'm fuzzy on this.

I probably shouldn't ask.  I don't need to know 

Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

There are a few that I have that I haven't been able to find electronically
and still refer to.   For example, the MOSFET data book I could never find
anywhere, and I still occasionally will refer back to the wonderful
discussion of MOSFET operation when needed (although it's been a while
since I've needed to).   The archive I pointed toward has that one and I
think the majority of the books I have.

I also have a few old tab electronics books with cool old projects.
Haven't found those anywhere either.

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 10:25 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I tossed mine years ago, once I was sure they were available on CD.
>
> The law firm I use still has a large law library.
> It is where people go for some quiet or to eat lunch.
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 09, 2017 10:20 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>
> I've got a good collection still here in boxes, haven't had a chance to go
> through them yet.
>
> I think the plan will be to verify I have a .pdf copy of the ones I care
> of and then sell/discard/donate to the cause as appropriate.
>
> On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 10:17 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Oh man!  I had forgotten how many different data manuals there were and I
>> had most of them too.
>> Wow
>>
>> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 09, 2017 10:12 PM
>> *To:* af
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> I'm sorry for the timesink I'm about to introduce you to:
>>
>> http://www.bitsavers.org/components/motorola/_dataBooks/
>> http://www.bitsavers.org/components/ti/_dataBooks/
>> http://www.bitsavers.org/components/national/_dataBooks/
>>
>> Or you can just go to www.bitsavers.org for even more time consumption.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> Back in the day, I was a bona-fide SLIC expert.  Subscriber Line
>>> Interface Circuit.  I designed and built crap that interfaced with POTS
>>> lines.  So I knew just about everything having to do with dial tone
>>> circuits.  Much of the stuff was learned by reading data manuals.  I had
>>> hundreds of them  Blue and brown from Motorola.  Yellow from Texas
>>> Instruments.  Gray from Maxim.  Navy blue from National.  etc etc Good
>>> bed time readin’
>>>
>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 09, 2017 9:19 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>>>
>>> Out of curiousity, i learn this nonsense from folks in the know. Where
>>> do folks in the know learn this shit? Is it that they were involved in the
>>> day when people in the service industry knew what they were doing, or prior
>>> to mailing lists was there some analog solution center? Like did you old
>>> folks hang out near your telegraph listening to everybodies conversations?
>>> Does it boil down to some old chinese guy sending out coded messages or
>>> what?
>>> Was at a customers joint the other day, an issue with ms rdp, end of the
>>> day, it boiled down to remote connectivity, had to disable a tertiary
>>> networks gpo printer and disable bitmap caching. I got this from google.
>>> Seperate threads and a brain connection that this was the second remote
>>> joint via vpn, and the two remote joints couldnt communicate.
>>> Customer noted the google use, i told him its cause we dont have manuals
>>> now.
>>> Is the truth that some chinese guy just answers all our google queries
>>> now and we are just corporate puppets?
>>>
>>> Is there only one really old rice eating fellow that actually knows the
>>> answers? What if he dies?
>>> Are we fucked if the chinaman dies?
>>>
>>> On Nov 9, 2017 4:46 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
>>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> If you have call waiting, you'll often hear the caller id 'data burp'
>>> after the first 'call is waiting' beep...
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Lewis Bergman 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Remember, the signal comes between rings. Unless you are listening on a
 butt set in line or watching the info pass through a switch you wouldn't
 see or hear it. The only reason I remembered between first and second is
 sitting at a class 5 switch trying to figure out why caller ID was failing
 on a feature group D trunk group and seeing them come through after one
 ringy dingy.

 On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 3:46 PM Adam Moffett 
 wrote:

> Is it at an inaudible frequency?  If so, then it wouldn't make it
> through 2600hz bandpass filters would it?  Or maybe it's audible, but so
> short you don't notice it? I'm fuzzy on this.
>
> I probably shouldn't ask.  I don't need to know that much about POTS
> anymore.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Lewis Bergman" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 11/9/2017 

Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

[Chuck McCown]

I tossed mine years ago, once I was sure they were available on CD.  

The law firm I use still has a large law library.  
It is where people go for some quiet or to eat lunch.  

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 10:20 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

I've got a good collection still here in boxes, haven't had a chance to go 
through them yet.

I think the plan will be to verify I have a .pdf copy of the ones I care of and 
then sell/discard/donate to the cause as appropriate.   

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 10:17 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Oh man!  I had forgotten how many different data manuals there were and I had 
most of them too.  
  Wow

  From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
  Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 10:12 PM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

  Chuck,

  I'm sorry for the timesink I'm about to introduce you to:

  http://www.bitsavers.org/components/motorola/_dataBooks/

  http://www.bitsavers.org/components/ti/_dataBooks/

  http://www.bitsavers.org/components/national/_dataBooks/


  Or you can just go to www.bitsavers.org for even more time consumption.



  On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Back in the day, I was a bona-fide SLIC expert.  Subscriber Line Interface 
Circuit.  I designed and built crap that interfaced with POTS lines.  So I knew 
just about everything having to do with dial tone circuits.  Much of the stuff 
was learned by reading data manuals.  I had hundreds of them  Blue and brown 
from Motorola.  Yellow from Texas Instruments.  Gray from Maxim.  Navy blue 
from National.  etc etc Good bed time readin’

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 9:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

Out of curiousity, i learn this nonsense from folks in the know. Where do 
folks in the know learn this shit? Is it that they were involved in the day 
when people in the service industry knew what they were doing, or prior to 
mailing lists was there some analog solution center? Like did you old folks 
hang out near your telegraph listening to everybodies conversations? Does it 
boil down to some old chinese guy sending out coded messages or what? 
Was at a customers joint the other day, an issue with ms rdp, end of the 
day, it boiled down to remote connectivity, had to disable a tertiary networks 
gpo printer and disable bitmap caching. I got this from google. Seperate 
threads and a brain connection that this was the second remote joint via vpn, 
and the two remote joints couldnt communicate.
Customer noted the google use, i told him its cause we dont have manuals 
now.
Is the truth that some chinese guy just answers all our google queries now 
and we are just corporate puppets?

Is there only one really old rice eating fellow that actually knows the 
answers? What if he dies?
Are we fucked if the chinaman dies?

On Nov 9, 2017 4:46 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
 wrote:

  If you have call waiting, you'll often hear the caller id 'data burp' 
after the first 'call is waiting' beep...

  On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Lewis Bergman  
wrote:

Remember, the signal comes between rings. Unless you are listening on a 
butt set in line or watching the info pass through a switch you wouldn't see or 
hear it. The only reason I remembered between first and second is sitting at a 
class 5 switch trying to figure out why caller ID was failing on a feature 
group D trunk group and seeing them come through after one ringy dingy.

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 3:46 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  Is it at an inaudible frequency?  If so, then it wouldn't make it 
through 2600hz bandpass filters would it?  Or maybe it's audible, but so short 
you don't notice it? I'm fuzzy on this.

  I probably shouldn't ask.  I don't need to know that much about POTS 
anymore.


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Lewis Bergman" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 11/9/2017 4:40:57 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

More info than anyone probably wants to know. I found this about 
the original question: 
Caller-ID Signaling
According to Telcordia specifications, CND signaling starts as 
early as 300 mS after the first ring burst and ends at least 475 mS before the 
second ring burst

From here: http://www.tech-faq.com/caller-id.html



On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 9:29 PM Adam Moffett  
wrote:

  I did not know that tone contained modulated data.  I just 
thought it
  was a noise you wouldn't ignore.

  That's a fun fact to have.


  -- Original Message --
  

Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I've got a good collection still here in boxes, haven't had a chance to go
through them yet.

I think the plan will be to verify I have a .pdf copy of the ones I care of
and then sell/discard/donate to the cause as appropriate.

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 10:17 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Oh man!  I had forgotten how many different data manuals there were and I
> had most of them too.
> Wow
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 09, 2017 10:12 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>
> Chuck,
>
> I'm sorry for the timesink I'm about to introduce you to:
>
> http://www.bitsavers.org/components/motorola/_dataBooks/
> http://www.bitsavers.org/components/ti/_dataBooks/
> http://www.bitsavers.org/components/national/_dataBooks/
>
> Or you can just go to www.bitsavers.org for even more time consumption.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Back in the day, I was a bona-fide SLIC expert.  Subscriber Line
>> Interface Circuit.  I designed and built crap that interfaced with POTS
>> lines.  So I knew just about everything having to do with dial tone
>> circuits.  Much of the stuff was learned by reading data manuals.  I had
>> hundreds of them  Blue and brown from Motorola.  Yellow from Texas
>> Instruments.  Gray from Maxim.  Navy blue from National.  etc etc Good
>> bed time readin’
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 09, 2017 9:19 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>>
>> Out of curiousity, i learn this nonsense from folks in the know. Where do
>> folks in the know learn this shit? Is it that they were involved in the day
>> when people in the service industry knew what they were doing, or prior to
>> mailing lists was there some analog solution center? Like did you old folks
>> hang out near your telegraph listening to everybodies conversations? Does
>> it boil down to some old chinese guy sending out coded messages or what?
>> Was at a customers joint the other day, an issue with ms rdp, end of the
>> day, it boiled down to remote connectivity, had to disable a tertiary
>> networks gpo printer and disable bitmap caching. I got this from google.
>> Seperate threads and a brain connection that this was the second remote
>> joint via vpn, and the two remote joints couldnt communicate.
>> Customer noted the google use, i told him its cause we dont have manuals
>> now.
>> Is the truth that some chinese guy just answers all our google queries
>> now and we are just corporate puppets?
>>
>> Is there only one really old rice eating fellow that actually knows the
>> answers? What if he dies?
>> Are we fucked if the chinaman dies?
>>
>> On Nov 9, 2017 4:46 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>> If you have call waiting, you'll often hear the caller id 'data burp'
>> after the first 'call is waiting' beep...
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Lewis Bergman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Remember, the signal comes between rings. Unless you are listening on a
>>> butt set in line or watching the info pass through a switch you wouldn't
>>> see or hear it. The only reason I remembered between first and second is
>>> sitting at a class 5 switch trying to figure out why caller ID was failing
>>> on a feature group D trunk group and seeing them come through after one
>>> ringy dingy.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 3:46 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>>
 Is it at an inaudible frequency?  If so, then it wouldn't make it
 through 2600hz bandpass filters would it?  Or maybe it's audible, but so
 short you don't notice it? I'm fuzzy on this.

 I probably shouldn't ask.  I don't need to know that much about POTS
 anymore.


 -- Original Message --
 From: "Lewis Bergman" 
 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: 11/9/2017 4:40:57 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question


 More info than anyone probably wants to know. I found this about the
 original question:
 Caller-ID Signaling

 According to Telcordia specifications, CND signaling starts as early as
 300 mS after the first ring burst and ends at least 475 mS before the
 second ring burst

 From here: http://www.tech-faq.com/caller-id.html

 On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 9:29 PM Adam Moffett 
 wrote:

 I did not know that tone contained modulated data.  I just thought it
> was a noise you wouldn't ignore.
>
> That's a fun fact to have.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 11/7/2017 4:39:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>
> >Monitor the line for the data burst.  It is the exact same modulation
> >method as the emergency alert system you hear squawking on the TV
> 

Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

[Chuck McCown]

Oh man!  I had forgotten how many different data manuals there were and I had 
most of them too.  
Wow

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 10:12 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

Chuck,

I'm sorry for the timesink I'm about to introduce you to:

http://www.bitsavers.org/components/motorola/_dataBooks/

http://www.bitsavers.org/components/ti/_dataBooks/

http://www.bitsavers.org/components/national/_dataBooks/


Or you can just go to www.bitsavers.org for even more time consumption.



On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Back in the day, I was a bona-fide SLIC expert.  Subscriber Line Interface 
Circuit.  I designed and built crap that interfaced with POTS lines.  So I knew 
just about everything having to do with dial tone circuits.  Much of the stuff 
was learned by reading data manuals.  I had hundreds of them  Blue and brown 
from Motorola.  Yellow from Texas Instruments.  Gray from Maxim.  Navy blue 
from National.  etc etc Good bed time readin’

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 9:19 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

  Out of curiousity, i learn this nonsense from folks in the know. Where do 
folks in the know learn this shit? Is it that they were involved in the day 
when people in the service industry knew what they were doing, or prior to 
mailing lists was there some analog solution center? Like did you old folks 
hang out near your telegraph listening to everybodies conversations? Does it 
boil down to some old chinese guy sending out coded messages or what? 
  Was at a customers joint the other day, an issue with ms rdp, end of the day, 
it boiled down to remote connectivity, had to disable a tertiary networks gpo 
printer and disable bitmap caching. I got this from google. Seperate threads 
and a brain connection that this was the second remote joint via vpn, and the 
two remote joints couldnt communicate.
  Customer noted the google use, i told him its cause we dont have manuals now.
  Is the truth that some chinese guy just answers all our google queries now 
and we are just corporate puppets?

  Is there only one really old rice eating fellow that actually knows the 
answers? What if he dies?
  Are we fucked if the chinaman dies?

  On Nov 9, 2017 4:46 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
 wrote:

If you have call waiting, you'll often hear the caller id 'data burp' after 
the first 'call is waiting' beep...

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Lewis Bergman  
wrote:

  Remember, the signal comes between rings. Unless you are listening on a 
butt set in line or watching the info pass through a switch you wouldn't see or 
hear it. The only reason I remembered between first and second is sitting at a 
class 5 switch trying to figure out why caller ID was failing on a feature 
group D trunk group and seeing them come through after one ringy dingy.

  On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 3:46 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

Is it at an inaudible frequency?  If so, then it wouldn't make it 
through 2600hz bandpass filters would it?  Or maybe it's audible, but so short 
you don't notice it? I'm fuzzy on this.

I probably shouldn't ask.  I don't need to know that much about POTS 
anymore.


-- Original Message --
From: "Lewis Bergman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/9/2017 4:40:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

  More info than anyone probably wants to know. I found this about the 
original question: 
  Caller-ID Signaling
  According to Telcordia specifications, CND signaling starts as early 
as 300 mS after the first ring burst and ends at least 475 mS before the second 
ring burst

  From here: http://www.tech-faq.com/caller-id.html



  On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 9:29 PM Adam Moffett  
wrote:

I did not know that tone contained modulated data.  I just thought 
it
was a noise you wouldn't ignore.

That's a fun fact to have.


-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/7/2017 4:39:27 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

>Monitor the line for the data burst.  It is the exact same 
modulation
>method as the emergency alert system you hear squawking on the TV
>before the beep and thunderstorm warning.
>
>I think it comes before the first ring or right after the first 
ring.
>Some of the original display units rectified and stored ring 
voltage
>for power so it may need the ring first to power the display box 
then
>the data.
>
>In any event, you can hear it if you 

Re: [AFMUG] Class B Ip space

[Robert]

That's what I am telling him.   It's going to be a cliff function where 
the price goes up and up and then falls off a cliff, get monetize it now 
where it's worth something



On 11/9/17 9:06 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

How many years before V4 space is worthless?
*From:* Justin Wilson
*Sent:* Thursday, November 09, 2017 10:04 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Class B Ip space
$150 a month for a Class C is below what we are seeing.  Most of the 
time it is in the $200 range and if you are leasing them from a 
carrier I have seen $1 an ip be the cheap end.

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net
www.mtin.net 
www.midwest-ix.com 


On Nov 9, 2017, at 8:19 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
Some guy came around and offered me $150/month per Class C.  I told 
him he was crazy.


On the other hand if your friend leased the whole Class B at that 
rate, he wouldn't have to work anymore.  I can't answer the leasing 
agent question, but I can send you the contact info of the person who 
approached me offlist if you want.



-- Original Message --
From: "Robert Andrews" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/9/2017 6:53:12 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Class B Ip space

I am posting for a friend who has a class b address space.   He is 
interested in leasing it out but doesn't want to do the 
administration of the leasing himself, rather going through a 
leasing agent.  Is there anyone in particular that people think 
highly of?


Robert

Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

[Chuck McCown]

Do they have the thomas register too?

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 10:12 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

Chuck,

I'm sorry for the timesink I'm about to introduce you to:

http://www.bitsavers.org/components/motorola/_dataBooks/

http://www.bitsavers.org/components/ti/_dataBooks/

http://www.bitsavers.org/components/national/_dataBooks/


Or you can just go to www.bitsavers.org for even more time consumption.



On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Back in the day, I was a bona-fide SLIC expert.  Subscriber Line Interface 
Circuit.  I designed and built crap that interfaced with POTS lines.  So I knew 
just about everything having to do with dial tone circuits.  Much of the stuff 
was learned by reading data manuals.  I had hundreds of them  Blue and brown 
from Motorola.  Yellow from Texas Instruments.  Gray from Maxim.  Navy blue 
from National.  etc etc Good bed time readin’

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 9:19 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

  Out of curiousity, i learn this nonsense from folks in the know. Where do 
folks in the know learn this shit? Is it that they were involved in the day 
when people in the service industry knew what they were doing, or prior to 
mailing lists was there some analog solution center? Like did you old folks 
hang out near your telegraph listening to everybodies conversations? Does it 
boil down to some old chinese guy sending out coded messages or what? 
  Was at a customers joint the other day, an issue with ms rdp, end of the day, 
it boiled down to remote connectivity, had to disable a tertiary networks gpo 
printer and disable bitmap caching. I got this from google. Seperate threads 
and a brain connection that this was the second remote joint via vpn, and the 
two remote joints couldnt communicate.
  Customer noted the google use, i told him its cause we dont have manuals now.
  Is the truth that some chinese guy just answers all our google queries now 
and we are just corporate puppets?

  Is there only one really old rice eating fellow that actually knows the 
answers? What if he dies?
  Are we fucked if the chinaman dies?

  On Nov 9, 2017 4:46 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
 wrote:

If you have call waiting, you'll often hear the caller id 'data burp' after 
the first 'call is waiting' beep...

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Lewis Bergman  
wrote:

  Remember, the signal comes between rings. Unless you are listening on a 
butt set in line or watching the info pass through a switch you wouldn't see or 
hear it. The only reason I remembered between first and second is sitting at a 
class 5 switch trying to figure out why caller ID was failing on a feature 
group D trunk group and seeing them come through after one ringy dingy.

  On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 3:46 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

Is it at an inaudible frequency?  If so, then it wouldn't make it 
through 2600hz bandpass filters would it?  Or maybe it's audible, but so short 
you don't notice it? I'm fuzzy on this.

I probably shouldn't ask.  I don't need to know that much about POTS 
anymore.


-- Original Message --
From: "Lewis Bergman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/9/2017 4:40:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

  More info than anyone probably wants to know. I found this about the 
original question: 
  Caller-ID Signaling
  According to Telcordia specifications, CND signaling starts as early 
as 300 mS after the first ring burst and ends at least 475 mS before the second 
ring burst

  From here: http://www.tech-faq.com/caller-id.html



  On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 9:29 PM Adam Moffett  
wrote:

I did not know that tone contained modulated data.  I just thought 
it
was a noise you wouldn't ignore.

That's a fun fact to have.


-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/7/2017 4:39:27 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

>Monitor the line for the data burst.  It is the exact same 
modulation
>method as the emergency alert system you hear squawking on the TV
>before the beep and thunderstorm warning.
>
>I think it comes before the first ring or right after the first 
ring.
>Some of the original display units rectified and stored ring 
voltage
>for power so it may need the ring first to power the display box 
then
>the data.
>
>In any event, you can hear it if you have a butt sett with line 
monitor
>mode.

Re: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...

[George Skorup]

I've seen licensed PTP gear rated -36 to -72. I think that's a little 
bit generous. Probably -40 to -60 would be OK. But maybe -65 or so for 
very aggressive rectifiers wouldn't be a bad idea either.


On 11/9/2017 2:03 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
33.6 top equalize for 24 v   62.4 top equalize for 48 v.   I would 
have expected the bottom to be more like 22v...


On 11/09/2017 11:37 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

I'm looking at a 48V Meanwell RSD with an input range of 33.6 - 62.4V.
Seems strangely specific.

-- Original Message --
From: "Robert Andrews" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/9/2017 2:32:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...


-62 for Battery conditioning ( equalize )... with surges...

On 11/09/2017 11:20 AM, Carl Peterson wrote:
It should support something like -42 to -60.  The topside is 
normally something like -56 but -60 gives a little margin.


On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Adam Moffett > wrote:


   __
   I don't recall ever seeing anything other than -48. Personally if
   you accept the range from "dead battery" to "fast charging 
battery",

   and do something non-destructive when voltage is out of range, then
   I'll be happy as a clam.


   -- Original Message --
   From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" >
   To: "af" >
   Sent: 11/9/2017 2:04:48 PM
   Subject: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...


   I'm working on some support for -48VDC in various products.

   I'm wondering if anyone has encountered a different negative
   voltage than -48VDC in the wild, say -24VDC or similar.    The
   main reason why I ask is that it is looking like I'm not going to
   be able to support as wide of range of voltages on the negative
   side as I do for the positive side (12-60VDC), and wondering if I
   really only need to support something along the lines of 32-60VDC
   on the negative side.

   -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
   Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT
   59602
 


forre...@imach.com  |
http://www.packetflux.com 
   
    






--
Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Chuck,

I'm sorry for the timesink I'm about to introduce you to:

http://www.bitsavers.org/components/motorola/_dataBooks/
http://www.bitsavers.org/components/ti/_dataBooks/
http://www.bitsavers.org/components/national/_dataBooks/

Or you can just go to www.bitsavers.org for even more time consumption.



On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Back in the day, I was a bona-fide SLIC expert.  Subscriber Line Interface
> Circuit.  I designed and built crap that interfaced with POTS lines.  So I
> knew just about everything having to do with dial tone circuits.  Much of
> the stuff was learned by reading data manuals.  I had hundreds of them
> Blue and brown from Motorola.  Yellow from Texas Instruments.  Gray from
> Maxim.  Navy blue from National.  etc etc Good bed time readin’
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 09, 2017 9:19 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>
> Out of curiousity, i learn this nonsense from folks in the know. Where do
> folks in the know learn this shit? Is it that they were involved in the day
> when people in the service industry knew what they were doing, or prior to
> mailing lists was there some analog solution center? Like did you old folks
> hang out near your telegraph listening to everybodies conversations? Does
> it boil down to some old chinese guy sending out coded messages or what?
> Was at a customers joint the other day, an issue with ms rdp, end of the
> day, it boiled down to remote connectivity, had to disable a tertiary
> networks gpo printer and disable bitmap caching. I got this from google.
> Seperate threads and a brain connection that this was the second remote
> joint via vpn, and the two remote joints couldnt communicate.
> Customer noted the google use, i told him its cause we dont have manuals
> now.
> Is the truth that some chinese guy just answers all our google queries now
> and we are just corporate puppets?
>
> Is there only one really old rice eating fellow that actually knows the
> answers? What if he dies?
> Are we fucked if the chinaman dies?
>
> On Nov 9, 2017 4:46 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
> If you have call waiting, you'll often hear the caller id 'data burp'
> after the first 'call is waiting' beep...
>
> On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> Remember, the signal comes between rings. Unless you are listening on a
>> butt set in line or watching the info pass through a switch you wouldn't
>> see or hear it. The only reason I remembered between first and second is
>> sitting at a class 5 switch trying to figure out why caller ID was failing
>> on a feature group D trunk group and seeing them come through after one
>> ringy dingy.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 3:46 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>>> Is it at an inaudible frequency?  If so, then it wouldn't make it
>>> through 2600hz bandpass filters would it?  Or maybe it's audible, but so
>>> short you don't notice it? I'm fuzzy on this.
>>>
>>> I probably shouldn't ask.  I don't need to know that much about POTS
>>> anymore.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Lewis Bergman" 
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 11/9/2017 4:40:57 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>>>
>>>
>>> More info than anyone probably wants to know. I found this about the
>>> original question:
>>> Caller-ID Signaling
>>>
>>> According to Telcordia specifications, CND signaling starts as early as
>>> 300 mS after the first ring burst and ends at least 475 mS before the
>>> second ring burst
>>>
>>> From here: http://www.tech-faq.com/caller-id.html
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 9:29 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>>
>>> I did not know that tone contained modulated data.  I just thought it
 was a noise you wouldn't ignore.

 That's a fun fact to have.


 -- Original Message --
 From: ch...@wbmfg.com
 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: 11/7/2017 4:39:27 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

 >Monitor the line for the data burst.  It is the exact same modulation
 >method as the emergency alert system you hear squawking on the TV
 >before the beep and thunderstorm warning.
 >
 >I think it comes before the first ring or right after the first ring.
 >Some of the original display units rectified and stored ring voltage
 >for power so it may need the ring first to power the display box then
 >the data.
 >
 >In any event, you can hear it if you have a butt sett with line monitor
 >mode.
 >Bell 202 is correct.
 >
 >-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
 >Sent: Tuesday, November 7, 2017 1:58 PM
 >To: Animal Farm
 >Subject: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
 >
 >At a customer, I just hooked up a Cisco SPA122 into an Ancient Lucent
 >PBX 

Re: [AFMUG] Class B Ip space

[Chuck McCown]

How many years before V4 space is worthless?

From: Justin Wilson 
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 10:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Class B Ip space

$150 a month for a Class C is below what we are seeing.  Most of the time it is 
in the $200 range and if you are leasing them from a carrier I have seen $1 an 
ip be the cheap end. 

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

www.mtin.net
www.midwest-ix.com


  On Nov 9, 2017, at 8:19 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

  Some guy came around and offered me $150/month per Class C.  I told him he 
was crazy.

  On the other hand if your friend leased the whole Class B at that rate, he 
wouldn't have to work anymore.  I can't answer the leasing agent question, but 
I can send you the contact info of the person who approached me offlist if you 
want.


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Robert Andrews" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 11/9/2017 6:53:12 PM
  Subject: [AFMUG] Class B Ip space


I am posting for a friend who has a class b address space.   He is 
interested in leasing it out but doesn't want to do the administration of the 
leasing himself, rather going through a leasing agent.  Is there anyone in 
particular that people think highly of?

Robert

Re: [AFMUG] Class B Ip space

[Justin Wilson]

$150 a month for a Class C is below what we are seeing.  Most of the time it is 
in the $200 range and if you are leasing them from a carrier I have seen $1 an 
ip be the cheap end.

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

www.mtin.net
www.midwest-ix.com

> On Nov 9, 2017, at 8:19 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> Some guy came around and offered me $150/month per Class C.  I told him he 
> was crazy.
> 
> On the other hand if your friend leased the whole Class B at that rate, he 
> wouldn't have to work anymore.  I can't answer the leasing agent question, 
> but I can send you the contact info of the person who approached me offlist 
> if you want.
> 
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Robert Andrews" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 11/9/2017 6:53:12 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Class B Ip space
> 
>> I am posting for a friend who has a class b address space.   He is 
>> interested in leasing it out but doesn't want to do the administration of 
>> the leasing himself, rather going through a leasing agent.  Is there anyone 
>> in particular that people think highly of?
>> 
>> Robert
> 

Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

[Chuck McCown]

Back in the day, I was a bona-fide SLIC expert.  Subscriber Line Interface 
Circuit.  I designed and built crap that interfaced with POTS lines.  So I knew 
just about everything having to do with dial tone circuits.  Much of the stuff 
was learned by reading data manuals.  I had hundreds of them  Blue and brown 
from Motorola.  Yellow from Texas Instruments.  Gray from Maxim.  Navy blue 
from National.  etc etc Good bed time readin’

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 9:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

Out of curiousity, i learn this nonsense from folks in the know. Where do folks 
in the know learn this shit? Is it that they were involved in the day when 
people in the service industry knew what they were doing, or prior to mailing 
lists was there some analog solution center? Like did you old folks hang out 
near your telegraph listening to everybodies conversations? Does it boil down 
to some old chinese guy sending out coded messages or what? 
Was at a customers joint the other day, an issue with ms rdp, end of the day, 
it boiled down to remote connectivity, had to disable a tertiary networks gpo 
printer and disable bitmap caching. I got this from google. Seperate threads 
and a brain connection that this was the second remote joint via vpn, and the 
two remote joints couldnt communicate.
Customer noted the google use, i told him its cause we dont have manuals now.
Is the truth that some chinese guy just answers all our google queries now and 
we are just corporate puppets?

Is there only one really old rice eating fellow that actually knows the 
answers? What if he dies?
Are we fucked if the chinaman dies?

On Nov 9, 2017 4:46 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
 wrote:

  If you have call waiting, you'll often hear the caller id 'data burp' after 
the first 'call is waiting' beep...

  On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Lewis Bergman  wrote:

Remember, the signal comes between rings. Unless you are listening on a 
butt set in line or watching the info pass through a switch you wouldn't see or 
hear it. The only reason I remembered between first and second is sitting at a 
class 5 switch trying to figure out why caller ID was failing on a feature 
group D trunk group and seeing them come through after one ringy dingy.

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 3:46 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  Is it at an inaudible frequency?  If so, then it wouldn't make it through 
2600hz bandpass filters would it?  Or maybe it's audible, but so short you 
don't notice it? I'm fuzzy on this.

  I probably shouldn't ask.  I don't need to know that much about POTS 
anymore.


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Lewis Bergman" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 11/9/2017 4:40:57 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

More info than anyone probably wants to know. I found this about the 
original question: 
Caller-ID Signaling
According to Telcordia specifications, CND signaling starts as early as 
300 mS after the first ring burst and ends at least 475 mS before the second 
ring burst

From here: http://www.tech-faq.com/caller-id.html



On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 9:29 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  I did not know that tone contained modulated data.  I just thought it
  was a noise you wouldn't ignore.

  That's a fun fact to have.


  -- Original Message --
  From: ch...@wbmfg.com
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 11/7/2017 4:39:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

  >Monitor the line for the data burst.  It is the exact same modulation
  >method as the emergency alert system you hear squawking on the TV
  >before the beep and thunderstorm warning.
  >
  >I think it comes before the first ring or right after the first ring.
  >Some of the original display units rectified and stored ring voltage
  >for power so it may need the ring first to power the display box then
  >the data.
  >
  >In any event, you can hear it if you have a butt sett with line 
monitor
  >mode.
  >Bell 202 is correct.
  >
  >-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
  >Sent: Tuesday, November 7, 2017 1:58 PM
  >To: Animal Farm
  >Subject: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
  >
  >At a customer, I just hooked up a Cisco SPA122 into an Ancient Lucent
  >PBX system.  The customer says that caller ID is not coming through,
  >but
  >it used to work with his old AT Lines, and it appears to be hitting
  >the ATA Properly.   Is there a setting on the ATA that needs to be 
set
  >that older systems may be looking for?
  >
  >The only settings I see 

Re: [AFMUG] Class B Ip space

[Chuck McCown]

We have been paying about $10/ip on a /24 basis.  

-Original Message- 
From: Robert 
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 7:13 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Class B Ip space 

$150/month for 255 addresses?  less than the going rate from the majors 
to subs?  or per IP?   BTW this guy doesn't need to work already... 
Part of why he has a /16 personally...


On 11/9/17 5:19 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
Some guy came around and offered me $150/month per Class C.  I told him 
he was crazy.


On the other hand if your friend leased the whole Class B at that rate, 
he wouldn't have to work anymore.  I can't answer the leasing agent 
question, but I can send you the contact info of the person who 
approached me offlist if you want.



-- Original Message --
From: "Robert Andrews" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/9/2017 6:53:12 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Class B Ip space

I am posting for a friend who has a class b address space.   He is 
interested in leasing it out but doesn't want to do the administration 
of the leasing himself, rather going through a leasing agent.  Is 
there anyone in particular that people think highly of?


Robert

Re: [AFMUG] Class B Ip space

[Steve Jones]

Tell him to subscribe to the nanog list.
Ask him a month later if he wants anything to do with leases space

On Nov 9, 2017 8:13 PM, "Robert"  wrote:

> $150/month for 255 addresses?  less than the going rate from the majors to
> subs?  or per IP?   BTW this guy doesn't need to work already... Part of
> why he has a /16 personally...
>
> On 11/9/17 5:19 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
>> Some guy came around and offered me $150/month per Class C.  I told him
>> he was crazy.
>>
>> On the other hand if your friend leased the whole Class B at that rate,
>> he wouldn't have to work anymore.  I can't answer the leasing agent
>> question, but I can send you the contact info of the person who approached
>> me offlist if you want.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Robert Andrews" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 11/9/2017 6:53:12 PM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Class B Ip space
>>
>> I am posting for a friend who has a class b address space.   He is
>>> interested in leasing it out but doesn't want to do the administration of
>>> the leasing himself, rather going through a leasing agent.  Is there anyone
>>> in particular that people think highly of?
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Raspberry pi reliability

[Steve Jones]

Im changing my pi settings on my kodi cache. If it lasts a year with
caching everything, i will assume pi came from jesus.
Im expecting to trash an sd card


On Nov 9, 2017 9:33 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz"  wrote:

> I ate my Raspberry Pie with Ice cream.. putting an end to the debate..
>
> next is Apple Pie !
>
> :)
>
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net
>
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <(305)%20663-5518>
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email:
> supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
> *To: *"af" 
> *Sent: *Thursday, November 9, 2017 10:30:43 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Raspberry pi reliability
>
> I know some of you are using rasberry pi's in your network for various
> functions.   We're having a bit of debate here about the long term
> reliability of the pi hardware.
> I was wondering what everyone's experience is in relation to this?
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> 
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>   
>   
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

[Steve Jones]

Out of curiousity, i learn this nonsense from folks in the know. Where do
folks in the know learn this shit? Is it that they were involved in the day
when people in the service industry knew what they were doing, or prior to
mailing lists was there some analog solution center? Like did you old folks
hang out near your telegraph listening to everybodies conversations? Does
it boil down to some old chinese guy sending out coded messages or what?
Was at a customers joint the other day, an issue with ms rdp, end of the
day, it boiled down to remote connectivity, had to disable a tertiary
networks gpo printer and disable bitmap caching. I got this from google.
Seperate threads and a brain connection that this was the second remote
joint via vpn, and the two remote joints couldnt communicate.
Customer noted the google use, i told him its cause we dont have manuals
now.
Is the truth that some chinese guy just answers all our google queries now
and we are just corporate puppets?

Is there only one really old rice eating fellow that actually knows the
answers? What if he dies?
Are we fucked if the chinaman dies?

On Nov 9, 2017 4:46 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

If you have call waiting, you'll often hear the caller id 'data burp' after
the first 'call is waiting' beep...

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> Remember, the signal comes between rings. Unless you are listening on a
> butt set in line or watching the info pass through a switch you wouldn't
> see or hear it. The only reason I remembered between first and second is
> sitting at a class 5 switch trying to figure out why caller ID was failing
> on a feature group D trunk group and seeing them come through after one
> ringy dingy.
>
> On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 3:46 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> Is it at an inaudible frequency?  If so, then it wouldn't make it through
>> 2600hz bandpass filters would it?  Or maybe it's audible, but so short you
>> don't notice it? I'm fuzzy on this.
>>
>> I probably shouldn't ask.  I don't need to know that much about POTS
>> anymore.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Lewis Bergman" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 11/9/2017 4:40:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>>
>> More info than anyone probably wants to know. I found this about the
>> original question:
>> Caller-ID Signaling
>>
>> According to Telcordia specifications, CND signaling starts as early as
>> 300 mS after the first ring burst and ends at least 475 mS before the
>> second ring burst
>>
>> From here: http://www.tech-faq.com/caller-id.html
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 9:29 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>> I did not know that tone contained modulated data.  I just thought it
>>> was a noise you wouldn't ignore.
>>>
>>> That's a fun fact to have.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 11/7/2017 4:39:27 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>>>
>>> >Monitor the line for the data burst.  It is the exact same modulation
>>> >method as the emergency alert system you hear squawking on the TV
>>> >before the beep and thunderstorm warning.
>>> >
>>> >I think it comes before the first ring or right after the first ring.
>>> >Some of the original display units rectified and stored ring voltage
>>> >for power so it may need the ring first to power the display box then
>>> >the data.
>>> >
>>> >In any event, you can hear it if you have a butt sett with line monitor
>>> >mode.
>>> >Bell 202 is correct.
>>> >
>>> >-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
>>> >Sent: Tuesday, November 7, 2017 1:58 PM
>>> >To: Animal Farm
>>> >Subject: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>>> >
>>> >At a customer, I just hooked up a Cisco SPA122 into an Ancient Lucent
>>> >PBX system.  The customer says that caller ID is not coming through,
>>> >but
>>> >it used to work with his old AT Lines, and it appears to be hitting
>>> >the ATA Properly.   Is there a setting on the ATA that needs to be set
>>> >that older systems may be looking for?
>>> >
>>> >The only settings I see for Caller ID in the ATA are Caller ID Method,
>>> >currently set to 'Bellcore(N.Amer,China)' and Caller ID FSK Standard,
>>> >set to 'Bell 202'  I've never had to mess with those settings before.
>>> >
>>> >Nate
>>>
>>>


-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602

forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] Raspberry pi reliability

[Faisal Imtiaz]

I ate my Raspberry Pie with Ice cream.. putting an end to the debate.. 

next is Apple Pie ! 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
> To: "af" 
> Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 10:30:43 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Raspberry pi reliability

> I know some of you are using rasberry pi's in your network for various
> functions. We're having a bit of debate here about the long term reliability 
> of
> the pi hardware.
> I was wondering what everyone's experience is in relation to this?

> --
> Forrest Christian CEO , PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com

[AFMUG] Raspberry pi reliability

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I know some of you are using rasberry pi's in your network for various
functions.   We're having a bit of debate here about the long term
reliability of the pi hardware.

I was wondering what everyone's experience is in relation to this?

-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] Will a Mimosa B5C fit in this rfarmor rear box?

[Faisal Imtiaz]

short answer is .. NO 
C5c is longer in length.. 
Having said that.. you can use the same hardware to test.. 
when you have a c5 in place, remove the bottom plate / side and don't put the 
cover on... 
(It is not needed, the C5c is very well shielded, as compared to the UBNT 
Rocket Radios) 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Eric Kuhnke" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 6:57:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Will a Mimosa B5C fit in this rfarmor rear box?

> Ugh, typo, that should have been C5C.

> On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote:

>> https://www.rfarmor.com/dish-kits/uds5g30-s45.html

>> I have a "test" set of the 30dB slant 45 dishes with rear box and radome,
>> currently holding a pair of AF5X. Would like to re-use the same dish hardware
>> for B5C testing.

Re: [AFMUG] Class B Ip space

[Robert]

$150/month for 255 addresses?  less than the going rate from the majors 
to subs?  or per IP?   BTW this guy doesn't need to work already... 
Part of why he has a /16 personally...


On 11/9/17 5:19 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
Some guy came around and offered me $150/month per Class C.  I told him 
he was crazy.


On the other hand if your friend leased the whole Class B at that rate, 
he wouldn't have to work anymore.  I can't answer the leasing agent 
question, but I can send you the contact info of the person who 
approached me offlist if you want.



-- Original Message --
From: "Robert Andrews" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/9/2017 6:53:12 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Class B Ip space

I am posting for a friend who has a class b address space.   He is 
interested in leasing it out but doesn't want to do the administration 
of the leasing himself, rather going through a leasing agent.  Is 
there anyone in particular that people think highly of?


Robert

Re: [AFMUG] Class B Ip space

[Lewis Bergman]

If he was a spammer your ip's would be worthless in a few months and he
would likely ditch you right after that.

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017, 7:19 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Some guy came around and offered me $150/month per Class C.  I told him
> he was crazy.
>
> On the other hand if your friend leased the whole Class B at that rate,
> he wouldn't have to work anymore.  I can't answer the leasing agent
> question, but I can send you the contact info of the person who
> approached me offlist if you want.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Robert Andrews" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 11/9/2017 6:53:12 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Class B Ip space
>
> >I am posting for a friend who has a class b address space.   He is
> >interested in leasing it out but doesn't want to do the administration
> >of the leasing himself, rather going through a leasing agent.  Is there
> >anyone in particular that people think highly of?
> >
> >Robert
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Class B Ip space

[Adam Moffett]

Some guy came around and offered me $150/month per Class C.  I told him 
he was crazy.


On the other hand if your friend leased the whole Class B at that rate, 
he wouldn't have to work anymore.  I can't answer the leasing agent 
question, but I can send you the contact info of the person who 
approached me offlist if you want.



-- Original Message --
From: "Robert Andrews" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/9/2017 6:53:12 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Class B Ip space

I am posting for a friend who has a class b address space.   He is 
interested in leasing it out but doesn't want to do the administration 
of the leasing himself, rather going through a leasing agent.  Is there 
anyone in particular that people think highly of?


Robert

Re: [AFMUG] Will a Mimosa B5C fit in this rfarmor rear box?

[Eric Kuhnke]

Ugh, typo, that should have been C5C.



On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> https://www.rfarmor.com/dish-kits/uds5g30-s45.html
>
>
> I have a "test" set of the 30dB slant 45 dishes with rear box and radome,
> currently holding a pair of AF5X. Would like to re-use the same dish
> hardware for B5C testing.
>
>
>

[AFMUG] Will a Mimosa B5C fit in this rfarmor rear box?

[Eric Kuhnke]

https://www.rfarmor.com/dish-kits/uds5g30-s45.html


I have a "test" set of the 30dB slant 45 dishes with rear box and radome,
currently holding a pair of AF5X. Would like to re-use the same dish
hardware for B5C testing.

[AFMUG] Class B Ip space

[Robert Andrews]

I am posting for a friend who has a class b address space.   He is 
interested in leasing it out but doesn't want to do the administration 
of the leasing himself, rather going through a leasing agent.  Is there 
anyone in particular that people think highly of?


Robert

Re: [AFMUG] SOHO router QOS

[Josh Luthman]

Isn't this what Procera is intended to fix?  From what I've heard people
solved this problem that way.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 3:41 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:

> I've been getting more and more calls lately where a game download is
> killing a customers connection.  Especially with the P2P nature of game
> delivery now.  Looking on the internet, it seems like the Netgear Nighthawk
> routers have QOS Built into them.  Does it actually work to keep a single
> device from pegging the connection? Is it easy to setup?  I'm really not
> excited to get into Customers (residential) internal networks when I don't
> have to.  So if I could refer them to a device they can go out and buy (and
> then I don't have to support) that would be great.  It's the 1% of
> customers where once you touch their internal network, they then have you
> on speed dial because 'when I go into this 1 room, I only have 3 bars of
> WIFI' or 'I can't print to my wireless printer'  that make the 99% of
> profitable customers not worth it.
>

Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

If you have call waiting, you'll often hear the caller id 'data burp' after
the first 'call is waiting' beep...

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> Remember, the signal comes between rings. Unless you are listening on a
> butt set in line or watching the info pass through a switch you wouldn't
> see or hear it. The only reason I remembered between first and second is
> sitting at a class 5 switch trying to figure out why caller ID was failing
> on a feature group D trunk group and seeing them come through after one
> ringy dingy.
>
> On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 3:46 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> Is it at an inaudible frequency?  If so, then it wouldn't make it through
>> 2600hz bandpass filters would it?  Or maybe it's audible, but so short you
>> don't notice it? I'm fuzzy on this.
>>
>> I probably shouldn't ask.  I don't need to know that much about POTS
>> anymore.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Lewis Bergman" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 11/9/2017 4:40:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>>
>> More info than anyone probably wants to know. I found this about the
>> original question:
>> Caller-ID Signaling
>>
>> According to Telcordia specifications, CND signaling starts as early as
>> 300 mS after the first ring burst and ends at least 475 mS before the
>> second ring burst
>>
>> From here: http://www.tech-faq.com/caller-id.html
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 9:29 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>> I did not know that tone contained modulated data.  I just thought it
>>> was a noise you wouldn't ignore.
>>>
>>> That's a fun fact to have.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 11/7/2017 4:39:27 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>>>
>>> >Monitor the line for the data burst.  It is the exact same modulation
>>> >method as the emergency alert system you hear squawking on the TV
>>> >before the beep and thunderstorm warning.
>>> >
>>> >I think it comes before the first ring or right after the first ring.
>>> >Some of the original display units rectified and stored ring voltage
>>> >for power so it may need the ring first to power the display box then
>>> >the data.
>>> >
>>> >In any event, you can hear it if you have a butt sett with line monitor
>>> >mode.
>>> >Bell 202 is correct.
>>> >
>>> >-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
>>> >Sent: Tuesday, November 7, 2017 1:58 PM
>>> >To: Animal Farm
>>> >Subject: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>>> >
>>> >At a customer, I just hooked up a Cisco SPA122 into an Ancient Lucent
>>> >PBX system.  The customer says that caller ID is not coming through,
>>> >but
>>> >it used to work with his old AT Lines, and it appears to be hitting
>>> >the ATA Properly.   Is there a setting on the ATA that needs to be set
>>> >that older systems may be looking for?
>>> >
>>> >The only settings I see for Caller ID in the ATA are Caller ID Method,
>>> >currently set to 'Bellcore(N.Amer,China)' and Caller ID FSK Standard,
>>> >set to 'Bell 202'  I've never had to mess with those settings before.
>>> >
>>> >Nate
>>>
>>>


-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] SOHO router QOS

[Adam Moffett]

I'd buy one for my own house if you find it :)


-- Original Message --
From: "Nate Burke" 
To: "Animal Farm" 
Sent: 11/9/2017 3:41:44 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] SOHO router QOS

I've been getting more and more calls lately where a game download is 
killing a customers connection.  Especially with the P2P nature of game 
delivery now.  Looking on the internet, it seems like the Netgear 
Nighthawk routers have QOS Built into them.  Does it actually work to 
keep a single device from pegging the connection? Is it easy to setup?  
I'm really not excited to get into Customers (residential) internal 
networks when I don't have to.  So if I could refer them to a device 
they can go out and buy (and then I don't have to support) that would 
be great.  It's the 1% of customers where once you touch their internal 
network, they then have you on speed dial because 'when I go into this 
1 room, I only have 3 bars of WIFI' or 'I can't print to my wireless 
printer'  that make the 99% of profitable customers not worth it.

Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

[chuck]

1200 and 2200 hz I think (bell 202 FSK).  You can certainly hear it.  It is the 
same as the data burst during the emergency broadcast system.  EAS system.  
Very annoying.  

Ring frequency is normally 20 Hz 90 VAC.  You can hear it but it is more of 
sensation to your ear that you feel than hear.  
You can certainly feel it if you put your fingers across the line.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 2:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

Is it at an inaudible frequency?  If so, then it wouldn't make it through 
2600hz bandpass filters would it?  Or maybe it's audible, but so short you 
don't notice it? I'm fuzzy on this.

I probably shouldn't ask.  I don't need to know that much about POTS anymore.


-- Original Message --
From: "Lewis Bergman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/9/2017 4:40:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

  More info than anyone probably wants to know. I found this about the original 
question: 
  Caller-ID Signaling
  According to Telcordia specifications, CND signaling starts as early as 300 
mS after the first ring burst and ends at least 475 mS before the second ring 
burst

  From here: http://www.tech-faq.com/caller-id.html


  On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 9:29 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

I did not know that tone contained modulated data.  I just thought it
was a noise you wouldn't ignore.

That's a fun fact to have.


-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/7/2017 4:39:27 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

>Monitor the line for the data burst.  It is the exact same modulation
>method as the emergency alert system you hear squawking on the TV
>before the beep and thunderstorm warning.
>
>I think it comes before the first ring or right after the first ring.
>Some of the original display units rectified and stored ring voltage
>for power so it may need the ring first to power the display box then
>the data.
>
>In any event, you can hear it if you have a butt sett with line monitor
>mode.
>Bell 202 is correct.
>
>-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
>Sent: Tuesday, November 7, 2017 1:58 PM
>To: Animal Farm
>Subject: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>
>At a customer, I just hooked up a Cisco SPA122 into an Ancient Lucent
>PBX system.  The customer says that caller ID is not coming through,
>but
>it used to work with his old AT Lines, and it appears to be hitting
>the ATA Properly.   Is there a setting on the ATA that needs to be set
>that older systems may be looking for?
>
>The only settings I see for Caller ID in the ATA are Caller ID Method,
>currently set to 'Bellcore(N.Amer,China)' and Caller ID FSK Standard,
>set to 'Bell 202'  I've never had to mess with those settings before.
>
>Nate

Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

[Adam Moffett]

Oh rightI haven't picked up the phone yet so there's nothing to 
hear.
Sorry.  I haven't actually used one of these telephone thingys in a long 
time.



-- Original Message --
From: "Lewis Bergman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/9/2017 4:52:46 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

Remember, the signal comes between rings. Unless you are listening on a 
butt set in line or watching the info pass through a switch you 
wouldn't see or hear it. The only reason I remembered between first and 
second is sitting at a class 5 switch trying to figure out why caller 
ID was failing on a feature group D trunk group and seeing them come 
through after one ringy dingy.


On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 3:46 PM Adam Moffett  
wrote:
Is it at an inaudible frequency?  If so, then it wouldn't make it 
through 2600hz bandpass filters would it?  Or maybe it's audible, but 
so short you don't notice it? I'm fuzzy on this.


I probably shouldn't ask.  I don't need to know that much about POTS 
anymore.



-- Original Message --
From: "Lewis Bergman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/9/2017 4:40:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

More info than anyone probably wants to know. I found this about the 
original question:

Caller-ID Signaling
According to Telcordia specifications, CND signaling starts as early 
as 300 mS after the first ring burst and ends at least 475 mS before 
the second ring burst


From here: http://www.tech-faq.com/caller-id.html


On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 9:29 PM Adam Moffett  
wrote:
I did not know that tone contained modulated data.  I just thought 
it

was a noise you wouldn't ignore.

That's a fun fact to have.


-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/7/2017 4:39:27 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

>Monitor the line for the data burst.  It is the exact same 
modulation

>method as the emergency alert system you hear squawking on the TV
>before the beep and thunderstorm warning.
>
>I think it comes before the first ring or right after the first 
ring.
>Some of the original display units rectified and stored ring 
voltage
>for power so it may need the ring first to power the display box 
then

>the data.
>
>In any event, you can hear it if you have a butt sett with line 
monitor

>mode.
>Bell 202 is correct.
>
>-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
>Sent: Tuesday, November 7, 2017 1:58 PM
>To: Animal Farm
>Subject: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>
>At a customer, I just hooked up a Cisco SPA122 into an Ancient 
Lucent
>PBX system.  The customer says that caller ID is not coming 
through,

>but
>it used to work with his old AT Lines, and it appears to be 
hitting
>the ATA Properly.   Is there a setting on the ATA that needs to be 
set

>that older systems may be looking for?
>
>The only settings I see for Caller ID in the ATA are Caller ID 
Method,
>currently set to 'Bellcore(N.Amer,China)' and Caller ID FSK 
Standard,
>set to 'Bell 202'  I've never had to mess with those settings 
before.

>
>Nate

Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

[Lewis Bergman]

Remember, the signal comes between rings. Unless you are listening on a
butt set in line or watching the info pass through a switch you wouldn't
see or hear it. The only reason I remembered between first and second is
sitting at a class 5 switch trying to figure out why caller ID was failing
on a feature group D trunk group and seeing them come through after one
ringy dingy.

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 3:46 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Is it at an inaudible frequency?  If so, then it wouldn't make it through
> 2600hz bandpass filters would it?  Or maybe it's audible, but so short you
> don't notice it? I'm fuzzy on this.
>
> I probably shouldn't ask.  I don't need to know that much about POTS
> anymore.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Lewis Bergman" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 11/9/2017 4:40:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>
> More info than anyone probably wants to know. I found this about the
> original question:
> Caller-ID Signaling
>
> According to Telcordia specifications, CND signaling starts as early as
> 300 mS after the first ring burst and ends at least 475 mS before the
> second ring burst
>
> From here: http://www.tech-faq.com/caller-id.html
>
> On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 9:29 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> I did not know that tone contained modulated data.  I just thought it
>> was a noise you wouldn't ignore.
>>
>> That's a fun fact to have.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 11/7/2017 4:39:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>>
>> >Monitor the line for the data burst.  It is the exact same modulation
>> >method as the emergency alert system you hear squawking on the TV
>> >before the beep and thunderstorm warning.
>> >
>> >I think it comes before the first ring or right after the first ring.
>> >Some of the original display units rectified and stored ring voltage
>> >for power so it may need the ring first to power the display box then
>> >the data.
>> >
>> >In any event, you can hear it if you have a butt sett with line monitor
>> >mode.
>> >Bell 202 is correct.
>> >
>> >-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
>> >Sent: Tuesday, November 7, 2017 1:58 PM
>> >To: Animal Farm
>> >Subject: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>> >
>> >At a customer, I just hooked up a Cisco SPA122 into an Ancient Lucent
>> >PBX system.  The customer says that caller ID is not coming through,
>> >but
>> >it used to work with his old AT Lines, and it appears to be hitting
>> >the ATA Properly.   Is there a setting on the ATA that needs to be set
>> >that older systems may be looking for?
>> >
>> >The only settings I see for Caller ID in the ATA are Caller ID Method,
>> >currently set to 'Bellcore(N.Amer,China)' and Caller ID FSK Standard,
>> >set to 'Bell 202'  I've never had to mess with those settings before.
>> >
>> >Nate
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

[Adam Moffett]

Is it at an inaudible frequency?  If so, then it wouldn't make it 
through 2600hz bandpass filters would it?  Or maybe it's audible, but so 
short you don't notice it? I'm fuzzy on this.


I probably shouldn't ask.  I don't need to know that much about POTS 
anymore.



-- Original Message --
From: "Lewis Bergman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/9/2017 4:40:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

More info than anyone probably wants to know. I found this about the 
original question:

Caller-ID Signaling
According to Telcordia specifications, CND signaling starts as early as 
300 mS after the first ring burst and ends at least 475 mS before the 
second ring burst


From here: http://www.tech-faq.com/caller-id.html


On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 9:29 PM Adam Moffett  
wrote:

I did not know that tone contained modulated data.  I just thought it
was a noise you wouldn't ignore.

That's a fun fact to have.


-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/7/2017 4:39:27 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

>Monitor the line for the data burst.  It is the exact same modulation
>method as the emergency alert system you hear squawking on the TV
>before the beep and thunderstorm warning.
>
>I think it comes before the first ring or right after the first ring.
>Some of the original display units rectified and stored ring voltage
>for power so it may need the ring first to power the display box then
>the data.
>
>In any event, you can hear it if you have a butt sett with line 
monitor

>mode.
>Bell 202 is correct.
>
>-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
>Sent: Tuesday, November 7, 2017 1:58 PM
>To: Animal Farm
>Subject: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>
>At a customer, I just hooked up a Cisco SPA122 into an Ancient Lucent
>PBX system.  The customer says that caller ID is not coming through,
>but
>it used to work with his old AT Lines, and it appears to be hitting
>the ATA Properly.   Is there a setting on the ATA that needs to be 
set

>that older systems may be looking for?
>
>The only settings I see for Caller ID in the ATA are Caller ID 
Method,

>currently set to 'Bellcore(N.Amer,China)' and Caller ID FSK Standard,
>set to 'Bell 202'  I've never had to mess with those settings before.
>
>Nate

Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question

[Lewis Bergman]

More info than anyone probably wants to know. I found this about the
original question:
Caller-ID Signaling

According to Telcordia specifications, CND signaling starts as early as 300
mS after the first ring burst and ends at least 475 mS before the second
ring burst

>From here: http://www.tech-faq.com/caller-id.html

On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 9:29 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I did not know that tone contained modulated data.  I just thought it
> was a noise you wouldn't ignore.
>
> That's a fun fact to have.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 11/7/2017 4:39:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
>
> >Monitor the line for the data burst.  It is the exact same modulation
> >method as the emergency alert system you hear squawking on the TV
> >before the beep and thunderstorm warning.
> >
> >I think it comes before the first ring or right after the first ring.
> >Some of the original display units rectified and stored ring voltage
> >for power so it may need the ring first to power the display box then
> >the data.
> >
> >In any event, you can hear it if you have a butt sett with line monitor
> >mode.
> >Bell 202 is correct.
> >
> >-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
> >Sent: Tuesday, November 7, 2017 1:58 PM
> >To: Animal Farm
> >Subject: [AFMUG] ATA CallerID question
> >
> >At a customer, I just hooked up a Cisco SPA122 into an Ancient Lucent
> >PBX system.  The customer says that caller ID is not coming through,
> >but
> >it used to work with his old AT Lines, and it appears to be hitting
> >the ATA Properly.   Is there a setting on the ATA that needs to be set
> >that older systems may be looking for?
> >
> >The only settings I see for Caller ID in the ATA are Caller ID Method,
> >currently set to 'Bellcore(N.Amer,China)' and Caller ID FSK Standard,
> >set to 'Bell 202'  I've never had to mess with those settings before.
> >
> >Nate
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] SOHO router QOS

[Lewis Bergman]

Wow...you're lucky. My customers were always the flip of that percentage.

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 2:41 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I've been getting more and more calls lately where a game download is
> killing a customers connection.  Especially with the P2P nature of game
> delivery now.  Looking on the internet, it seems like the Netgear
> Nighthawk routers have QOS Built into them.  Does it actually work to
> keep a single device from pegging the connection? Is it easy to setup?
> I'm really not excited to get into Customers (residential) internal
> networks when I don't have to.  So if I could refer them to a device
> they can go out and buy (and then I don't have to support) that would be
> great.  It's the 1% of customers where once you touch their internal
> network, they then have you on speed dial because 'when I go into this 1
> room, I only have 3 bars of WIFI' or 'I can't print to my wireless
> printer'  that make the 99% of profitable customers not worth it.
>

[AFMUG] SOHO router QOS

[Nate Burke]

I've been getting more and more calls lately where a game download is 
killing a customers connection.  Especially with the P2P nature of game 
delivery now.  Looking on the internet, it seems like the Netgear 
Nighthawk routers have QOS Built into them.  Does it actually work to 
keep a single device from pegging the connection? Is it easy to setup?  
I'm really not excited to get into Customers (residential) internal 
networks when I don't have to.  So if I could refer them to a device 
they can go out and buy (and then I don't have to support) that would be 
great.  It's the 1% of customers where once you touch their internal 
network, they then have you on speed dial because 'when I go into this 1 
room, I only have 3 bars of WIFI' or 'I can't print to my wireless 
printer'  that make the 99% of profitable customers not worth it.

Re: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...

[Robert Andrews]

33.6 top equalize for 24 v   62.4 top equalize for 48 v.   I would have 
expected the bottom to be more like 22v...


On 11/09/2017 11:37 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

I'm looking at a 48V Meanwell RSD with an input range of 33.6 - 62.4V.
Seems strangely specific.

-- Original Message --
From: "Robert Andrews" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/9/2017 2:32:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...


-62 for Battery conditioning ( equalize )... with surges...

On 11/09/2017 11:20 AM, Carl Peterson wrote:
It should support something like -42 to -60.  The topside is normally 
something like -56 but -60 gives a little margin.


On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Adam Moffett > wrote:


   __
   I don't recall ever seeing anything other than -48.  Personally if
   you accept the range from "dead battery" to "fast charging battery",
   and do something non-destructive when voltage is out of range, then
   I'll be happy as a clam.


   -- Original Message --
   From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" >
   To: "af" >
   Sent: 11/9/2017 2:04:48 PM
   Subject: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...


   I'm working on some support for -48VDC in various products.

   I'm wondering if anyone has encountered a different negative
   voltage than -48VDC in the wild, say -24VDC or similar.The
   main reason why I ask is that it is looking like I'm not going to
   be able to support as wide of range of voltages on the negative
   side as I do for the positive side (12-60VDC), and wondering if I
   really only need to support something along the lines of 32-60VDC
   on the negative side.

   -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
   Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT
   59602
 


forre...@imach.com  |
http://www.packetflux.com 
   
    






--
Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

Re: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...

[Robert Andrews]

Probably mostly plating with FE as there seems to be a lot of that around...

On 11/09/2017 11:51 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
The only negative voltage I have ever ran into in telecom has been the 
–48 VDC.

Of course you used to have +/- 15 for RS-232.
Some –5 on the old PC power supplies, no idea where it was used.
I have never seen any other negative voltage used outside the chassis of 
equipment.
Telecom originally was +48 volts until they started using underground 
and buried cables.
With the ring side of the line grounded at the C.O. and the tip side of 
the line powered with +48 any fault in the insulation of an underground 
or buried cable allowed copper ions to leave the wire as electrons were 
entering.  It would corrode the wire into nothingness and copper plate 
the surrounding dirt.
So they swapped polarity grounding the tip side and putting –48 on the 
ring side.  The ions would then transport from the environment to the 
wire thus plating it with who knows what, but the copper was still intact.

*From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
*Sent:* Thursday, November 09, 2017 12:04 PM
*To:* af
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...
I'm working on some support for -48VDC in various products.
I'm wondering if anyone has encountered a different negative voltage 
than -48VDC in the wild, say -24VDC or similar.The main reason why I 
ask is that it is looking like I'm not going to be able to support as 
wide of range of voltages on the negative side as I do for the positive 
side (12-60VDC), and wondering if I really only need to support 
something along the lines of 32-60VDC on the negative side.

--
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com 
 
 

Re: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...

[Chuck McCown]

The only negative voltage I have ever ran into in telecom has been the –48 VDC.

Of course you used to have +/- 15 for RS-232.
Some –5 on the old PC power supplies, no idea where it was used.
I have never seen any other negative voltage used outside the chassis of 
equipment.  

Telecom originally was +48 volts until they started using underground and 
buried cables.

With the ring side of the line grounded at the C.O. and the tip side of the 
line powered with +48 any fault in the insulation of an underground or buried 
cable allowed copper ions to leave the wire as electrons were entering.  It 
would corrode the wire into nothingness and copper plate the surrounding dirt.  

So they swapped polarity grounding the tip side and putting –48 on the ring 
side.  The ions would then transport from the environment to the wire thus 
plating it with who knows what, but the copper was still intact.  

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 12:04 PM
To: af 
Subject: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...

I'm working on some support for -48VDC in various products. 

I'm wondering if anyone has encountered a different negative voltage than 
-48VDC in the wild, say -24VDC or similar.The main reason why I ask is that 
it is looking like I'm not going to be able to support as wide of range of 
voltages on the negative side as I do for the positive side (12-60VDC), and 
wondering if I really only need to support something along the lines of 
32-60VDC on the negative side.


-- 

  Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.

  Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
  forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com

 

Re: [AFMUG] OT slightly political.

[Chuck McCown]

Cooperate and graduate.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 11:00 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT slightly political.

I'm a libertarian and my wife is a democratic socialist.  It's been jokingly 
said that we should just not vote because our votes will cancel each other 
anyway.

Even she doesn't buy into all the crap.  There were points in her sociology 
class where she gave the correct answer even though it logically made no sense.


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/9/2017 11:50:13 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT slightly political.

  My youngest daughter is coming out of a social justice warrior phase she has 
been in for the past few years.  She is 21 and now has a very steady boyfriend 
that I hope she marries.  I have been lectured by her about some of the issues 
in this article.  

  I understand the kids becoming idealistic.  Not the faculty.  

  From: Jason McKemie 
  Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 9:45 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT slightly political.

  I don't think there is much in the way of politics there, stifling free 
speech is a problem no matter what side of the aisle you're sitting on. 
Polarization is another huge issue, centrists are going the way of the middle 
class.

  On Thursday, November 9, 2017, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Not trying to start any kind of argument here, and as I recall it is still 
Lent.

But this is one of the best articles I have read for a long time.  
I wanted it to be hi rez as possible.  Thus the rotation.  
(There is a pdf attachment.  Sometimes some of you don’t get pdf 
attachments on this list.)

Re: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...

[Chuck McCown]

pretty fond of 3.1415 VDC, it fits into round wires quite well

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 12:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...

i want 31.5 and 60.3

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

  I'm working on some support for -48VDC in various products. 

  I'm wondering if anyone has encountered a different negative voltage than 
-48VDC in the wild, say -24VDC or similar.The main reason why I ask is that 
it is looking like I'm not going to be able to support as wide of range of 
voltages on the negative side as I do for the positive side (12-60VDC), and 
wondering if I really only need to support something along the lines of 
32-60VDC on the negative side.


  -- 

Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com

   

Re: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...

[Adam Moffett]

I'm looking at a 48V Meanwell RSD with an input range of 33.6 - 62.4V.
Seems strangely specific.

-- Original Message --
From: "Robert Andrews" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/9/2017 2:32:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...


-62 for Battery conditioning ( equalize )... with surges...

On 11/09/2017 11:20 AM, Carl Peterson wrote:
It should support something like -42 to -60.  The topside is normally 
something like -56 but -60 gives a little margin.


On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Adam Moffett > wrote:


   __
   I don't recall ever seeing anything other than -48.  Personally if
   you accept the range from "dead battery" to "fast charging 
battery",

   and do something non-destructive when voltage is out of range, then
   I'll be happy as a clam.


   -- Original Message --
   From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" >
   To: "af" >
   Sent: 11/9/2017 2:04:48 PM
   Subject: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...


   I'm working on some support for -48VDC in various products.

   I'm wondering if anyone has encountered a different negative
   voltage than -48VDC in the wild, say -24VDC or similar.The
   main reason why I ask is that it is looking like I'm not going to
   be able to support as wide of range of voltages on the negative
   side as I do for the positive side (12-60VDC), and wondering if I
   really only need to support something along the lines of 32-60VDC
   on the negative side.

   -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
   Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT
   59602
   


forre...@imach.com  |
http://www.packetflux.com 
   
    






--
Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

Re: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...

[Robert Andrews]

-62 for Battery conditioning ( equalize )... with surges...

On 11/09/2017 11:20 AM, Carl Peterson wrote:
It should support something like -42 to -60.  The topside is normally 
something like -56 but -60 gives a little margin.


On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Adam Moffett > wrote:


__
I don't recall ever seeing anything other than -48.  Personally if
you accept the range from "dead battery" to "fast charging battery",
and do something non-destructive when voltage is out of range, then
I'll be happy as a clam.


-- Original Message --
From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" >
To: "af" >
Sent: 11/9/2017 2:04:48 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...


I'm working on some support for -48VDC in various products.

I'm wondering if anyone has encountered a different negative
voltage than -48VDC in the wild, say -24VDC or similar.The
main reason why I ask is that it is looking like I'm not going to
be able to support as wide of range of voltages on the negative
side as I do for the positive side (12-60VDC), and wondering if I
really only need to support something along the lines of 32-60VDC
on the negative side.

-- 
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT
59602


forre...@imach.com  |
http://www.packetflux.com 

 






--

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

Re: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...

[Carl Peterson]

It should support something like -42 to -60.  The topside is normally
something like -56 but -60 gives a little margin.

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I don't recall ever seeing anything other than -48.  Personally if you
> accept the range from "dead battery" to "fast charging battery", and do
> something non-destructive when voltage is out of range, then I'll be happy
> as a clam.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
> To: "af" 
> Sent: 11/9/2017 2:04:48 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...
>
> I'm working on some support for -48VDC in various products.
>
> I'm wondering if anyone has encountered a different negative voltage than
> -48VDC in the wild, say -24VDC or similar.The main reason why I ask is
> that it is looking like I'm not going to be able to support as wide of
> range of voltages on the negative side as I do for the positive side
> (12-60VDC), and wondering if I really only need to support something along
> the lines of 32-60VDC on the negative side.
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> 
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>   
>   
>
>


-- 

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

Re: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...

[Adam Moffett]

I don't recall ever seeing anything other than -48.  Personally if you 
accept the range from "dead battery" to "fast charging battery", and do 
something non-destructive when voltage is out of range, then I'll be 
happy as a clam.



-- Original Message --
From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
To: "af" 
Sent: 11/9/2017 2:04:48 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...


I'm working on some support for -48VDC in various products.

I'm wondering if anyone has encountered a different negative voltage 
than -48VDC in the wild, say -24VDC or similar.The main reason why 
I ask is that it is looking like I'm not going to be able to support as 
wide of range of voltages on the negative side as I do for the positive 
side (12-60VDC), and wondering if I really only need to support 
something along the lines of 32-60VDC on the negative side.


--
Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com 

  
  

Re: [AFMUG] Negative Voltages...

[Steve Jones]

i want 31.5 and 60.3

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> I'm working on some support for -48VDC in various products.
>
> I'm wondering if anyone has encountered a different negative voltage than
> -48VDC in the wild, say -24VDC or similar.The main reason why I ask is
> that it is looking like I'm not going to be able to support as wide of
> range of voltages on the negative side as I do for the positive side
> (12-60VDC), and wondering if I really only need to support something along
> the lines of 32-60VDC on the negative side.
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> 
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>   
>   
>
>

[AFMUG] Negative Voltages...

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I'm working on some support for -48VDC in various products.

I'm wondering if anyone has encountered a different negative voltage than
-48VDC in the wild, say -24VDC or similar.The main reason why I ask is
that it is looking like I'm not going to be able to support as wide of
range of voltages on the negative side as I do for the positive side
(12-60VDC), and wondering if I really only need to support something along
the lines of 32-60VDC on the negative side.

-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] OT slightly political.

[Jaime Solorza]

I am a Tecate drinker y que?

On Nov 9, 2017 11:01 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> I'm a libertarian and my wife is a democratic socialist.  It's been
> jokingly said that we should just not vote because our votes will cancel
> each other anyway.
>
> Even she doesn't buy into all the crap.  There were points in her
> sociology class where she gave the correct answer even though it logically
> made no sense.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 11/9/2017 11:50:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT slightly political.
>
> My youngest daughter is coming out of a social justice warrior phase she
> has been in for the past few years.  She is 21 and now has a very steady
> boyfriend that I hope she marries.  I have been lectured by her about some
> of the issues in this article.
>
> I understand the kids becoming idealistic.  Not the faculty.
>
> *From:* Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 09, 2017 9:45 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT slightly political.
>
> I don't think there is much in the way of politics there, stifling free
> speech is a problem no matter what side of the aisle you're sitting on.
> Polarization is another huge issue, centrists are going the way of the
> middle class.
>
> On Thursday, November 9, 2017, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Not trying to start any kind of argument here, and as I recall it is
>> still Lent.
>>
>> But this is one of the best articles I have read for a long time.
>> I wanted it to be hi rez as possible.  Thus the rotation.
>>
>> (There is a pdf attachment.  Sometimes some of you don’t get pdf
>> attachments on this list.)
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

[Jaime Solorza]

Ha...reminds me of Hyperlink in the 90s..we ordered a custom designed 5
watt amp for WaveLAN 900MHz 85 mile link in Hermosillo area... paid with
Amex and no amp for almost a month... Matt ,my salesman, called to tell me
Peter had used payment to make payroll and had to wait to get more sales to
order parts for this amp.  A phone call from Peter would have made all the
difference...I never bought Hyperlink products ever again.   We almost lost
the project due to delay...it was for Brandy Presidente owners hunting
ranch in mountains...

On Nov 9, 2017 11:10 AM, "Sterling Jacobson"  wrote:

Similar case with me which I kind of already pointed out.



They couldn’t figure out a BGP issue and wanted to virtualize and put in a
lab and spend hours on top of hours analyzing.



I stopped them right there and said no thanks to that.



Then I called Dennis and he took a few minutes, found out it likely wasn’t
my problem, and worked with my upstream provider to fix it.



And it was fixed after some emails back and forth between all of us.



I asked IPArchitechs to refund me since they had charged me hundreds of
dollars to get nowhere.

One of their sales guys made out a personal check to me for some reason,
claiming his reputation was on the line or something like that.

I think it was a shady play at emotions, but I don’t have many emotions, so
it didn’t work with me, lol!



I took whatever little money they could refund me, however they wanted to
refund and ‘play’ that.

Then they gave me credit which I still have, to use.



Likely I’ll not be doing BGP stuff with them, but maybe they will do
something more benign, like standard server work.



*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *
can...@believewireless.net
*Sent:* Thursday, November 9, 2017 10:01 AM

*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs



We used them once and we weren't happy. I wanted to give them a try to see
how they compared to others.

What I thought was a simple BGP issue that could have been handled with a
15-30 minute phone call ended

up taking over two weeks. They "needed" to get our router configs and
virtualize them in their network. Then

figure out which interfaces were backhaul links, etc.



They then came up with a crazy network design that, to me, made no sense.
After them burning a lot of hours

on that, a simple call at the end of that process amounted to just creating
a single EoIP tunnel to fix the issue.



So my thought is they want to burn hours whenever they can.



On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

So, IPArchitechsis there a current consensus on whether they are
worth investing time with?   We are looking to layer BGP within (or upon)
our OSPF network to better control traffic between towers, subnets, etc.

IPA talked a good game, but we didn't roll out with them.

Any thoughts?

Paul

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 1:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

We are always here :)


Dennis Burgess - Network Solution Engineer - Consultant MikroTik Certified
Trainer/Consultant - MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE

For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net Radio Frequency
Coverages: www.towercoverage.com
Office: 314-735-0270
E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 12:45 PM
To: 'af@afmug.com' 
Subject: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

That company was a bust.

So I'm looking again for a professional team/company that can
professionally handle my network contracting needs in a reasonable time
frame.

Dennis, I'll be asking for your help again in the meantime as soon as I get
refunded from IPArchitechs.

Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

[Sterling Jacobson]

Similar case with me which I kind of already pointed out.

They couldn’t figure out a BGP issue and wanted to virtualize and put in a lab 
and spend hours on top of hours analyzing.

I stopped them right there and said no thanks to that.

Then I called Dennis and he took a few minutes, found out it likely wasn’t my 
problem, and worked with my upstream provider to fix it.

And it was fixed after some emails back and forth between all of us.

I asked IPArchitechs to refund me since they had charged me hundreds of dollars 
to get nowhere.
One of their sales guys made out a personal check to me for some reason, 
claiming his reputation was on the line or something like that.
I think it was a shady play at emotions, but I don’t have many emotions, so it 
didn’t work with me, lol!

I took whatever little money they could refund me, however they wanted to 
refund and ‘play’ that.
Then they gave me credit which I still have, to use.

Likely I’ll not be doing BGP stuff with them, but maybe they will do something 
more benign, like standard server work.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of can...@believewireless.net
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 10:01 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

We used them once and we weren't happy. I wanted to give them a try to see how 
they compared to others.
What I thought was a simple BGP issue that could have been handled with a 15-30 
minute phone call ended
up taking over two weeks. They "needed" to get our router configs and 
virtualize them in their network. Then
figure out which interfaces were backhaul links, etc.

They then came up with a crazy network design that, to me, made no sense. After 
them burning a lot of hours
on that, a simple call at the end of that process amounted to just creating a 
single EoIP tunnel to fix the issue.

So my thought is they want to burn hours whenever they can.

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Paul McCall 
> wrote:
So, IPArchitechsis there a current consensus on whether they are worth 
investing time with?   We are looking to layer BGP within (or upon) our OSPF 
network to better control traffic between towers, subnets, etc.

IPA talked a good game, but we didn't roll out with them.

Any thoughts?

Paul

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Dennis Burgess
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 1:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

We are always here :)


Dennis Burgess - Network Solution Engineer - Consultant MikroTik Certified 
Trainer/Consultant - MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE

For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net 
Radio Frequency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com
Office: 314-735-0270
E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 12:45 PM
To: 'af@afmug.com' >
Subject: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs
That company was a bust.

So I'm looking again for a professional team/company that can professionally 
handle my network contracting needs in a reasonable time frame.

Dennis, I'll be asking for your help again in the meantime as soon as I get 
refunded from IPArchitechs.

Re: [AFMUG] OT slightly political.

[Adam Moffett]

I'm a libertarian and my wife is a democratic socialist.  It's been 
jokingly said that we should just not vote because our votes will cancel 
each other anyway.


Even she doesn't buy into all the crap.  There were points in her 
sociology class where she gave the correct answer even though it 
logically made no sense.



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/9/2017 11:50:13 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT slightly political.

My youngest daughter is coming out of a social justice warrior phase 
she has been in for the past few years.  She is 21 and now has a very 
steady boyfriend that I hope she marries.  I have been lectured by her 
about some of the issues in this article.


I understand the kids becoming idealistic.  Not the faculty.

From:Jason McKemie
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 9:45 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT slightly political.

I don't think there is much in the way of politics there, stifling free 
speech is a problem no matter what side of the aisle you're sitting on. 
Polarization is another huge issue, centrists are going the way of the 
middle class.


On Thursday, November 9, 2017, Chuck McCown  wrote:
Not trying to start any kind of argument here, and as I recall it is 
still Lent.


But this is one of the best articles I have read for a long time.
I wanted it to be hi rez as possible.  Thus the rotation.

(There is a pdf attachment.  Sometimes some of you don’t get pdf 
attachments on this list.)

Re: [AFMUG] OT slightly political.

[Jason McKemie]

Idealism is one thing, but attempting to suppress the speech of someone
just because you disagree with them is about as "un-american" as it gets.

On Thursday, November 9, 2017, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> My youngest daughter is coming out of a social justice warrior phase she
> has been in for the past few years.  She is 21 and now has a very steady
> boyfriend that I hope she marries.  I have been lectured by her about some
> of the issues in this article.
>
> I understand the kids becoming idealistic.  Not the faculty.
>
> *From:* Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 09, 2017 9:45 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT slightly political.
>
> I don't think there is much in the way of politics there, stifling free
> speech is a problem no matter what side of the aisle you're sitting on.
> Polarization is another huge issue, centrists are going the way of the
> middle class.
>
> On Thursday, November 9, 2017, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Not trying to start any kind of argument here, and as I recall it is
>> still Lent.
>>
>> But this is one of the best articles I have read for a long time.
>> I wanted it to be hi rez as possible.  Thus the rotation.
>>
>> (There is a pdf attachment.  Sometimes some of you don’t get pdf
>> attachments on this list.)
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

[can...@believewireless.net]

We used them once and we weren't happy. I wanted to give them a try to see
how they compared to others.
What I thought was a simple BGP issue that could have been handled with a
15-30 minute phone call ended
up taking over two weeks. They "needed" to get our router configs and
virtualize them in their network. Then
figure out which interfaces were backhaul links, etc.

They then came up with a crazy network design that, to me, made no sense.
After them burning a lot of hours
on that, a simple call at the end of that process amounted to just creating
a single EoIP tunnel to fix the issue.

So my thought is they want to burn hours whenever they can.

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> So, IPArchitechsis there a current consensus on whether they are
> worth investing time with?   We are looking to layer BGP within (or upon)
> our OSPF network to better control traffic between towers, subnets, etc.
>
> IPA talked a good game, but we didn't roll out with them.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Paul
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
> Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 1:47 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs
>
> We are always here :)
>
>
> Dennis Burgess - Network Solution Engineer - Consultant MikroTik Certified
> Trainer/Consultant - MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE
>
> For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net Radio Frequency
> Coverages: www.towercoverage.com
> Office: 314-735-0270
> E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
> Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 12:45 PM
> To: 'af@afmug.com' 
> Subject: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs
>
> That company was a bust.
>
> So I'm looking again for a professional team/company that can
> professionally handle my network contracting needs in a reasonable time
> frame.
>
> Dennis, I'll be asking for your help again in the meantime as soon as I
> get refunded from IPArchitechs.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] android gps app

[Jaime Solorza]

Stick with me...soon you will be part of the Pharaohsapologies to
American Graffiti...

On Nov 9, 2017 9:43 AM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

> Im digging this GPS Status, The Pitch/Roll actually seems pretty spot on
>
> On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 1:19 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> I've been using GPS Essentials. The Satellites feature shows
>> visible/tracking satellites on a compass grid.
>>
>> As Chuck says, you need to just evaluate visible sky. Metal & concrete be
>> bad. Blue sky (cyan actually) be good.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 11/7/2017 9:37 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>>> Anybody have a decent app for android to verify GPS visibility for
>>> syncpipe placement? have some contractors hanging gear this weekend and
>>> need them to verify where theyre putting it without having to login to the
>>> gear
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT slightly political.

[Chuck McCown]

My youngest daughter is coming out of a social justice warrior phase she has 
been in for the past few years.  She is 21 and now has a very steady boyfriend 
that I hope she marries.  I have been lectured by her about some of the issues 
in this article.  

I understand the kids becoming idealistic.  Not the faculty.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 9:45 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT slightly political.

I don't think there is much in the way of politics there, stifling free speech 
is a problem no matter what side of the aisle you're sitting on. Polarization 
is another huge issue, centrists are going the way of the middle class.

On Thursday, November 9, 2017, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Not trying to start any kind of argument here, and as I recall it is still 
Lent.

  But this is one of the best articles I have read for a long time.  
  I wanted it to be hi rez as possible.  Thus the rotation.  
  (There is a pdf attachment.  Sometimes some of you don’t get pdf attachments 
on this list.)

Re: [AFMUG] OT slightly political.

[Jason McKemie]

I don't think there is much in the way of politics there, stifling free
speech is a problem no matter what side of the aisle you're sitting on.
Polarization is another huge issue, centrists are going the way of the
middle class.

On Thursday, November 9, 2017, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Not trying to start any kind of argument here, and as I recall it is still
> Lent.
>
> But this is one of the best articles I have read for a long time.
> I wanted it to be hi rez as possible.  Thus the rotation.
>
> (There is a pdf attachment.  Sometimes some of you don’t get pdf
> attachments on this list.)
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] android gps app

[Steve Jones]

Im digging this GPS Status, The Pitch/Roll actually seems pretty spot on

On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 1:19 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> I've been using GPS Essentials. The Satellites feature shows
> visible/tracking satellites on a compass grid.
>
> As Chuck says, you need to just evaluate visible sky. Metal & concrete be
> bad. Blue sky (cyan actually) be good.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 11/7/2017 9:37 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
>> Anybody have a decent app for android to verify GPS visibility for
>> syncpipe placement? have some contractors hanging gear this weekend and
>> need them to verify where theyre putting it without having to login to the
>> gear
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Radomes...

[Chuck McCown]

The material, thickness and placement all affect radome loss.
Fiberglass is normally the best, the thinner the better.
There is a factor called the loss tangent for most materials used.  The 
lower the better.


But it also has to be spaced such that it is placed in a null in the 
nearfield electrical field.
If it is spaced wrong it can create a bunch of loss.  Spaced right and it 
becomes invisible to the signal.


I would say less than a dB and if done right, less than a half dB.

-Original Message- 
From: Robert Andrews

Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 8:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Radomes...

What do you folks out there see for signal loss when putting a radome on
a 5 Ghz link?   I was testing today thinking I might see 1db loss and
was surprised to see more like 2-3 db!   I also had that link go from
doing 80mb/s in testing to around 70mb/s with the radome...

Best,
Robert 

Re: [AFMUG] Aluminum foil can actually improve your wireless signal

[Jaime Solorza]

Yep

On Nov 9, 2017 7:52 AM, "Cameron Crum"  wrote:

This part was funny, "The idea is to eventually create an object that can
actually change shape if the room's layout changes."

Ummmwouldn't just a double or triple thick sheet of aluminum foil do
this without the 3-D printer? I can fold foil pretty easily and not have to
waste time on the printer.

On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 10:13 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> More here than article mentions...
>
>
> https://www.engadget.com/amp/2017/11/08/research-aluminum-fo
> il-improves-wifi/
>

Re: [AFMUG] Radomes...

[Jaime Solorza]

Quality is suspect?  The higher the frequency the more critical precise
measurement is required...

On Nov 9, 2017 8:30 AM, "Robert"  wrote:

> Ubiquiti 2 foot...   I tried some radomes from amazon..   bt
>
> On 11/9/17 7:20 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
>> 0-1 is more like it.
>> What model of dish is that?
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Robert Andrews" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 11/8/2017 10:30:11 PM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Radomes...
>>
>> What do you folks out there see for signal loss when putting a radome on
>>> a 5 Ghz link?   I was testing today thinking I might see 1db loss and was
>>> surprised to see more like 2-3 db!   I also had that link go from doing
>>> 80mb/s in testing to around 70mb/s with the radome...
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Robert
>>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Small 5 Ghz dual pol for use with Mimosa C5c

[Mathew Howard]

I'm not sure exactly how the price compares, but after you add in the cost
of even a cheap antenna, you'll probably be ahead... and it simplifies
things a bit.

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> Ahhh,, that makes sense.   For some reason, I was thinking they were more
> money.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 9, 2017 10:27 AM
> *To:* af 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small 5 Ghz dual pol for use with Mimosa C5c
>
>
>
> Why not just use B5 lites?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:02 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
>
> We are doing a short hop with Mimosa C5C (0.7 miles) and need to use the
> smallest footprint antennas that will give us Maximum throughput.
>
>
>
> suggestions
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
> 
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
> 
>
> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Please take our money

[Seth Mattinen]

On 11/9/17 7:53 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I'm trying to upgrade bandwidth on an existing circuit and can't get a 
call back.  I'll never understand why some people aren't willing to take 
more money of our money.






The bigger the company the less individual customers matter. There are 
some exceptions, of course.

Re: [AFMUG] Please take our money

[John Seaman]

I’ll take some Adam ;-)

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 7:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Please take our money

I'm trying to upgrade bandwidth on an existing circuit and can't get a call 
back.  I'll never understand why some people aren't willing to take more money 
of our money.

Re: [AFMUG] Small 5 Ghz dual pol for use with Mimosa C5c

[Paul McCall]

Ahhh,, that makes sense.   For some reason, I was thinking they were more money.

Paul

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 10:27 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Small 5 Ghz dual pol for use with Mimosa C5c

Why not just use B5 lites?

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:02 AM, Paul McCall 
> wrote:
We are doing a short hop with Mimosa C5C (0.7 miles) and need to use the 
smallest footprint antennas that will give us Maximum throughput.

suggestions

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie 
Highway
Vero Beach, FL 
32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com

[AFMUG] Please take our money

[Adam Moffett]

I'm trying to upgrade bandwidth on an existing circuit and can't get a 
call back.  I'll never understand why some people aren't willing to take 
more money of our money.

Re: [AFMUG] voip

[Lewis Bergman]

If any of you have business customers that want a new phone system, Can
handle any cabling requirements locally, and would like a one time
commission, you could send them my way. I like business VoIP. I found it
brought more business to my WISP than my WISP brought to VoIP. Of course
YMMV. Of course, most WISP believe their network is VoIP ready but few are.

On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 3:35 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> I started doing VoIP which led me to the WISP.
>
> I sold the VoIP and did even more WISP.
>
> It was the right decision a billion times over.  Did you see the thread
> recently about the caller ID issue? XD
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> 
> Suite 1337
> 
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>
> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 3:12 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/11/fcc-tries-to-help-cable-companies-avoid-state-consumer-protection-rules/
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 12:23 PM,  wrote:
>>
> In Utah, Xmission has a great VOIP product that can port in the customers
>>> numbers.
>>>
>>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 8, 2017 11:06 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] voip
>>>
>>>
>>> I don’t have staff for that, so I don’t do it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We did have good success with it years ago having it in house, but we
>>> also had larger business clients with 100’s of phone lines on it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 8, 2017 7:30 AM
>>> *To:* Animal Farm 
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] voip
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Big question here.
>>> Is it worth it to be a voip provider? With all the paperwork and 911
>>> stuff?
>>> How is everyone doing this?
>>> If your paying for hosted what end user rates do you charge?
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Radomes...

[Robert]

Ubiquiti 2 foot...   I tried some radomes from amazon..   bt

On 11/9/17 7:20 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

0-1 is more like it.
What model of dish is that?


-- Original Message --
From: "Robert Andrews" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/8/2017 10:30:11 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Radomes...

What do you folks out there see for signal loss when putting a radome 
on a 5 Ghz link?   I was testing today thinking I might see 1db loss 
and was surprised to see more like 2-3 db!   I also had that link go 
from doing 80mb/s in testing to around 70mb/s with the radome...


Best,
Robert

Re: [AFMUG] Small 5 Ghz dual pol for use with Mimosa C5c

[Jaime Fink]

Folks have been liking the new MTI dual-pol panel that has a custom 
mount/holder and built-in jumpers for the C5c. It’s the smallest at around 24 
dBi I believe, but the B5-Lite is the smallest but is integrated.

Jaime Fink • Mimosa • CPO & Co-Founder

From: Af  on behalf of Paul McCall 
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 10:02 AM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: [AFMUG] Small 5 Ghz dual pol for use with Mimosa C5c

We are doing a short hop with Mimosa C5C (0.7 miles) and need to use the 
smallest footprint antennas that will give us Maximum throughput.

suggestions

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] Small 5 Ghz dual pol for use with Mimosa C5c

[Mathew Howard]

Why not just use B5 lites?

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:02 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> We are doing a short hop with Mimosa C5C (0.7 miles) and need to use the
> smallest footprint antennas that will give us Maximum throughput.
>
>
>
> suggestions
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
> 
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
> 
>
> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Radomes...

[Adam Moffett]

0-1 is more like it.
What model of dish is that?


-- Original Message --
From: "Robert Andrews" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/8/2017 10:30:11 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Radomes...

What do you folks out there see for signal loss when putting a radome 
on a 5 Ghz link?   I was testing today thinking I might see 1db loss 
and was surprised to see more like 2-3 db!   I also had that link go 
from doing 80mb/s in testing to around 70mb/s with the radome...


Best,
Robert

Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

[Paul McCall]

So, IPArchitechsis there a current consensus on whether they are worth 
investing time with?   We are looking to layer BGP within (or upon) our OSPF 
network to better control traffic between towers, subnets, etc.

IPA talked a good game, but we didn't roll out with them.  

Any thoughts?

Paul

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 1:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

We are always here :)  


Dennis Burgess - Network Solution Engineer - Consultant MikroTik Certified 
Trainer/Consultant - MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE

For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net Radio Frequency 
Coverages: www.towercoverage.com
Office: 314-735-0270
E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net 


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 12:45 PM
To: 'af@afmug.com' 
Subject: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

That company was a bust.

So I'm looking again for a professional team/company that can professionally 
handle my network contracting needs in a reasonable time frame.

Dennis, I'll be asking for your help again in the meantime as soon as I get 
refunded from IPArchitechs.

[AFMUG] Small 5 Ghz dual pol for use with Mimosa C5c

[Paul McCall]

We are doing a short hop with Mimosa C5C (0.7 miles) and need to use the 
smallest footprint antennas that will give us Maximum throughput.

suggestions

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] Aluminum foil can actually improve your wireless signal

[Cameron Crum]

This part was funny, "The idea is to eventually create an object that can
actually change shape if the room's layout changes."

Ummmwouldn't just a double or triple thick sheet of aluminum foil do
this without the 3-D printer? I can fold foil pretty easily and not have to
waste time on the printer.

On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 10:13 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> More here than article mentions...
>
>
> https://www.engadget.com/amp/2017/11/08/research-aluminum-
> foil-improves-wifi/
>