Re: DIS: Grey Land and the Fountain V2

[Corona]

This would undo EFDoA; you should to update the asset generation rule text
in your proposal to reflect that it was amended by EFDoA:

replace the first item on the list with the following two items,
renumbering the other items
appropriately:

  1. if the facility is built on unconserved Public Land, none.

  2. if the facility is built on preserved Public Land and less than four
days
  have passed since assets were created in the facility most recently, e
must
  not have taken any assets from the inventory of another facility located
on
  a preserved Land Unit within this Agoran week.

~Corona

On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 3:08 AM, Kenyon Prater  wrote:

> Title: Gray Land and the Fountain
> Co-authors: Aris, Cuddle Beam, Gaelan, Trigon
> AI: 2.0
> Contents: {
>
> Amend "Land Types" (Power=2.0):
> Replace "whose values are "Black", "White", and "Aether"", with the
> text "whose values are "Black", "White", "Gray", and "Aether""
>
> Create a new rule "Facility Categories", (Power=2.0):
> A facility's Category is a switch whose possible values are
> “Production”, “Processing”, “Monument”, and “Miscellaneous”.  An “x
> facility”, where x is a Category, refers to a facility that has
> Category switch set to x.
>
> Amend "Asset Generation with Facilities" (Power=2.0) to read the following:
> When an Production or Processing facility creates assets, the assets
> are added to the facility's possession. The rule that creates an
> Production or Processing facility CAN specify a carrying capacity for
> assets. If, at any time, the amount of an asset in the possession of an
> Production or Processing facility exceeds that asset's carrying
> capacity, an amount of that asset is destroyed until the amount of that
> asset in the possession of the facility is equal to its carrying
> capacity.
>
> At the end of every Agoran Week, Agora creates a number of assets in a
> Production facility specified by the rule which creates the facility.
>
> At the end of every Agoran Week, Agora destroys any refinable assets in
> the possession of each Processing facility that that facility can
> change into refined assets and replaces them with a corresponding
> number of refined assets to be specified by the rule that creates the
> facility.
>
>  A player can take a number of assets from an Production or Processing
>  facility's inventory by announcement if eir location is the same as
>  the facility's and the following criteria are met:
>  1. if the facility is built on Public Land, none.
>  2. if the facility is built on Communal Land, e must be a party to
>  that contract and the text of the contract must permit em to do so.
>  3. if the facility is built on Private Land, e must own the facility,
>  or the owner must have consented.
>
> Amend "Facility Ranks" (Power=2.0) to read the following:
> Rank is a facility switch tracked by the Cartographor defaulting to 1.
> Its possible values include all integers between 1 and 5, inclusive.
>
> If a facility specifies upgrade costs, a player CAN increase the rank
> of a facility e owns that is at eir location by exactly 1 by
> announcement by paying any upgrade costs of the facility for that
> specific rank. If no upgrade costs are specified for a facility, a
> player CANNOT increase the rank of that facility unless specified in
> other rules.
>
> Create a new rule "Facility Colors" (Power=2.0):
> A facility's Allowed Land Types is a switch with allowed values of a
> list of allowed values of the Land Type switch, with a default value of
> {"Black", "White"}. A facility may not have a Parent Land Unit whose
> Land Type is not an element of their Allowed Land Types. If an action
> or set of actions would cause a facility to be created with a Parent
> Land Unit whose Land Type is not an element of its Allowed Land Types,
> that action or set of actions fails. If a facility's Parent Land Unit's
> Land Type is flipped to a color that is not in that facility's Allowed
> Land Types, that facility is destroyed.
>
> An “x facility”, where x is a Land Type or list of Land Types, refers
> to a facility that has the Allowed Land Types switch set to x.
>
> Create a new rule "Gray Land" (Power=2.0):
> Gray Land is preserved and owned by Agora. If Land becomes Gray Land,
> it, along with any facilities with it as their Parent Land Unit, is
> transferred to Agora.
>
> Amend “Actions in Arcadia” (Power=1.0) by replacing the first two element
> in the list with:
> 1. 1 apple to move from one Land Unit to an adjacent Unit if their Land
> Types are the same or one of them is gray, and the destination is not
> Aether;
>
> 2. 2 apples to move from one Land Unit to an adjacent Unit if their
> Land Types differ, neither is gray, and the destination is not Aether;
>
> Create 

DIS: Grey Land and the Fountain V2

[Kenyon Prater]

Title: Gray Land and the Fountain
Co-authors: Aris, Cuddle Beam, Gaelan, Trigon
AI: 2.0
Contents: {

Amend "Land Types" (Power=2.0):
Replace "whose values are "Black", "White", and "Aether"", with the
text "whose values are "Black", "White", "Gray", and "Aether""

Create a new rule "Facility Categories", (Power=2.0):
A facility's Category is a switch whose possible values are
“Production”, “Processing”, “Monument”, and “Miscellaneous”.  An “x
facility”, where x is a Category, refers to a facility that has
Category switch set to x.

Amend "Asset Generation with Facilities" (Power=2.0) to read the following:
When an Production or Processing facility creates assets, the assets
are added to the facility's possession. The rule that creates an
Production or Processing facility CAN specify a carrying capacity for
assets. If, at any time, the amount of an asset in the possession of an
Production or Processing facility exceeds that asset's carrying
capacity, an amount of that asset is destroyed until the amount of that
asset in the possession of the facility is equal to its carrying
capacity.

At the end of every Agoran Week, Agora creates a number of assets in a
Production facility specified by the rule which creates the facility.

At the end of every Agoran Week, Agora destroys any refinable assets in
the possession of each Processing facility that that facility can
change into refined assets and replaces them with a corresponding
number of refined assets to be specified by the rule that creates the
facility.

 A player can take a number of assets from an Production or Processing
 facility's inventory by announcement if eir location is the same as
 the facility's and the following criteria are met:
 1. if the facility is built on Public Land, none.
 2. if the facility is built on Communal Land, e must be a party to
 that contract and the text of the contract must permit em to do so.
 3. if the facility is built on Private Land, e must own the facility,
 or the owner must have consented.

Amend "Facility Ranks" (Power=2.0) to read the following:
Rank is a facility switch tracked by the Cartographor defaulting to 1.
Its possible values include all integers between 1 and 5, inclusive.

If a facility specifies upgrade costs, a player CAN increase the rank
of a facility e owns that is at eir location by exactly 1 by
announcement by paying any upgrade costs of the facility for that
specific rank. If no upgrade costs are specified for a facility, a
player CANNOT increase the rank of that facility unless specified in
other rules.

Create a new rule "Facility Colors" (Power=2.0):
A facility's Allowed Land Types is a switch with allowed values of a
list of allowed values of the Land Type switch, with a default value of
{"Black", "White"}. A facility may not have a Parent Land Unit whose
Land Type is not an element of their Allowed Land Types. If an action
or set of actions would cause a facility to be created with a Parent
Land Unit whose Land Type is not an element of its Allowed Land Types,
that action or set of actions fails. If a facility's Parent Land Unit's
Land Type is flipped to a color that is not in that facility's Allowed
Land Types, that facility is destroyed.

An “x facility”, where x is a Land Type or list of Land Types, refers
to a facility that has the Allowed Land Types switch set to x.

Create a new rule "Gray Land" (Power=2.0):
Gray Land is preserved and owned by Agora. If Land becomes Gray Land,
it, along with any facilities with it as their Parent Land Unit, is
transferred to Agora.

Amend “Actions in Arcadia” (Power=1.0) by replacing the first two element
in the list with:
1. 1 apple to move from one Land Unit to an adjacent Unit if their Land
Types are the same or one of them is gray, and the destination is not
Aether;

2. 2 apples to move from one Land Unit to an adjacent Unit if their
Land Types differ, neither is gray, and the destination is not Aether;

Create a new rule "Monument Facilities" (Power=1.0):
For each type of Monument facility, there may only be one instance of
that facility in existence at any one time. An action CANNOT cause an
Monument facility to exist while another Monument facility of the same
type is already in existence.

Create a new rule "The Fountain" (Power=1.0):
A fountain is a Gray Monument facility. A fountain has no upkeep cost.

Create a new rule "Wishing Fountain", (Power=1.0):
If a player's location is the same as a fountain, e CAN destroy a coin
to Throw A Coin into the fountain. This does nothing, unless specified
in another Rule. A player MAY announce what e wishes for when e Throws
A Coin.

Set (0, 0)'s Land Type to "Gray".
Create a fountain at (0, 0) belonging to Agora.
}

Major changes from last time: 

Re: DIS: Grey Land and the Fountain

[Cuddle Beam]

I derped lol. But yeah, I agree with an "other" category.

On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 7:05 PM, Kenyon Prater  wrote:

> Agreed with Gaelan re teleporters and ornaments, unless I'm misreading what
> you're saying, Cuddle Beam.
>
> An example of two categories would be a unique (Agoran Monument) production
> facility like a wonder in Civ. You can imagine a race to build it/steal it
> from other players, with whoever has it having an advantage but having to
> work to defend their claim.
>
> Or, imagine you had facilities that could pollute the environment, defining
> a Polluter category and then simply adding all the facilities that caused
> pollution to that category, without having to copy the same rule across
> many locations.
>
> I do think that this is maybe a case of premature optimization and that one
> category would work just as well. I'd be happy to change it if people are
> unconvinced and want the simple version.
>
> Kenyon
>
> On Mar 3, 2018 8:36 AM, "Gaelan Steele"  wrote:
>
> Ornaments and teleporters would both fit in an "other" category—they
> wouldn't need to be both production and processing.
>
> Gaelan
>
> > On Mar 3, 2018, at 3:37 AM, Cuddle Beam  wrote:
> >
> > I suggest adding an example along that extensibility to market the idea
> of
> > it better. Swag purely aesthetics ornaments, walls and teleporters,
> > perhaps? (Not entirely necessary though, it just makes it look better
> > because it has a purpose instead of being blank)
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 8:44 AM, Aris Merchant <
> > thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I'm happy to admit that I may have been wrong on this one. However,
> >> extensibility is important. I was hoping we could do it in a short
> >> paragraph, not a whole rule. What do you guys think?
> >>
> >> -Aris
> >>
> >>> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 9:05 PM Gaelan Steele  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Sorry I forgot to bring this up earlier, but I think unless we have a
> use
> >>> case for facilities with multiple types, we should just have a simple
> >>> production/processing/{monument,other} option. This is well-written,
> but
> >>> until we need it I think it would be better to avoid the complexity.
> >>>
> >>> Gaelan
> >>>
>  On Mar 2, 2018, at 1:37 PM, Kenyon Prater 
> >> wrote:
> 
>  Gray Land and Fountain Draft 1 {
> 
>  Amend rule 1995/0 "Land Types" (Power=2.0):
>    Replace "whose values are "Black", "White", and "Aether"", with the
>    text "whose values are "Black", "White", "Gray", and "Aether""
> 
>  Create a new rule "Facility Categories", (Power=2.0):
>    A Category is an entity specified as such by the rule that creates
> >> it.
>    A facility's Categories may be defined in the rule that creates it,
> >>> and
>    may be any set of Categories defined in the rules. If no Categories
> >>> are
>    defined in the facility's creating rules, the facility's Categories
> >> is
>    the null set.
> 
>    A facility belongs to [Category] if that Category is an element in
> >> its
>    Categories. A [Category] facility refers to a facility that belong
> >> to
>    [Category]. A Pure-[Category] facility refers to a facility that
> >>> belong
>    to [Category] and no others.
> 
>  Amend "Asset Generation with Facilities" (Power=2.0) to read the
> >>> following:
>    Asset Generator is a Category of facilities. When an Asset Generator
>    facility creates assets, the assets are added to the facility's
>    possession. The rule that creates an Asset Generator facility CAN
>    specify a carrying capacity for assets. If, at any time, the amount
> >> of
>    an asset in the possession of an Asset Generator facility exceeds
> >> that
>    asset's carrying capacity, an amount of that asset is destroyed
> >> until
>    the amount of that asset in the possession of the facility is equal
> >> to
>    its carrying capacity.
> 
>    Production is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a
> >>> Production
>    facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
>    Agoran Week, Agora creates a number of assets in a Production
> >> facility
>    specified by the rule which creates the facility.
> 
>    Processing is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a
> >>> Processing
>    facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
>    Agoran Week, Agora destroys any refinable assets in the possession
> >> of
>    each processing facility that that facility can change into refined
>    assets and replaces them with a corresponding number of refined
> >> assets
>    to be specified by the rule that creates the facility.
> 
>    A player can take a number of assets from an Asset Generator
> >>> facility's
>    inventory by announcement if eir location is the 

Re: DIS: Grey Land and the Fountain

[Kenyon Prater]

Agreed with Gaelan re teleporters and ornaments, unless I'm misreading what
you're saying, Cuddle Beam.

An example of two categories would be a unique (Agoran Monument) production
facility like a wonder in Civ. You can imagine a race to build it/steal it
from other players, with whoever has it having an advantage but having to
work to defend their claim.

Or, imagine you had facilities that could pollute the environment, defining
a Polluter category and then simply adding all the facilities that caused
pollution to that category, without having to copy the same rule across
many locations.

I do think that this is maybe a case of premature optimization and that one
category would work just as well. I'd be happy to change it if people are
unconvinced and want the simple version.

Kenyon

On Mar 3, 2018 8:36 AM, "Gaelan Steele"  wrote:

Ornaments and teleporters would both fit in an "other" category—they
wouldn't need to be both production and processing.

Gaelan

> On Mar 3, 2018, at 3:37 AM, Cuddle Beam  wrote:
>
> I suggest adding an example along that extensibility to market the idea of
> it better. Swag purely aesthetics ornaments, walls and teleporters,
> perhaps? (Not entirely necessary though, it just makes it look better
> because it has a purpose instead of being blank)
>
> On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 8:44 AM, Aris Merchant <
> thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm happy to admit that I may have been wrong on this one. However,
>> extensibility is important. I was hoping we could do it in a short
>> paragraph, not a whole rule. What do you guys think?
>>
>> -Aris
>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 9:05 PM Gaelan Steele  wrote:
>>>
>>> Sorry I forgot to bring this up earlier, but I think unless we have a
use
>>> case for facilities with multiple types, we should just have a simple
>>> production/processing/{monument,other} option. This is well-written, but
>>> until we need it I think it would be better to avoid the complexity.
>>>
>>> Gaelan
>>>
 On Mar 2, 2018, at 1:37 PM, Kenyon Prater 
>> wrote:

 Gray Land and Fountain Draft 1 {

 Amend rule 1995/0 "Land Types" (Power=2.0):
   Replace "whose values are "Black", "White", and "Aether"", with the
   text "whose values are "Black", "White", "Gray", and "Aether""

 Create a new rule "Facility Categories", (Power=2.0):
   A Category is an entity specified as such by the rule that creates
>> it.
   A facility's Categories may be defined in the rule that creates it,
>>> and
   may be any set of Categories defined in the rules. If no Categories
>>> are
   defined in the facility's creating rules, the facility's Categories
>> is
   the null set.

   A facility belongs to [Category] if that Category is an element in
>> its
   Categories. A [Category] facility refers to a facility that belong
>> to
   [Category]. A Pure-[Category] facility refers to a facility that
>>> belong
   to [Category] and no others.

 Amend "Asset Generation with Facilities" (Power=2.0) to read the
>>> following:
   Asset Generator is a Category of facilities. When an Asset Generator
   facility creates assets, the assets are added to the facility's
   possession. The rule that creates an Asset Generator facility CAN
   specify a carrying capacity for assets. If, at any time, the amount
>> of
   an asset in the possession of an Asset Generator facility exceeds
>> that
   asset's carrying capacity, an amount of that asset is destroyed
>> until
   the amount of that asset in the possession of the facility is equal
>> to
   its carrying capacity.

   Production is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a
>>> Production
   facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
   Agoran Week, Agora creates a number of assets in a Production
>> facility
   specified by the rule which creates the facility.

   Processing is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a
>>> Processing
   facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
   Agoran Week, Agora destroys any refinable assets in the possession
>> of
   each processing facility that that facility can change into refined
   assets and replaces them with a corresponding number of refined
>> assets
   to be specified by the rule that creates the facility.

   A player can take a number of assets from an Asset Generator
>>> facility's
   inventory by announcement if eir location is the same as the
>>> facility's
   and the following criteria are met:

   1. if the facility is built on Public Land, none.

   2. if the facility is built on Communal Land, e must be a party to
  that contract and the text of the contract must permit em to do
  so.

   3. if the facility is built on Private Land, e must 

Re: DIS: Grey Land and the Fountain

[Gaelan Steele]

Ornaments and teleporters would both fit in an "other" category—they wouldn't 
need to be both production and processing. 

Gaelan 

> On Mar 3, 2018, at 3:37 AM, Cuddle Beam  wrote:
> 
> I suggest adding an example along that extensibility to market the idea of
> it better. Swag purely aesthetics ornaments, walls and teleporters,
> perhaps? (Not entirely necessary though, it just makes it look better
> because it has a purpose instead of being blank)
> 
> On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 8:44 AM, Aris Merchant <
> thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I'm happy to admit that I may have been wrong on this one. However,
>> extensibility is important. I was hoping we could do it in a short
>> paragraph, not a whole rule. What do you guys think?
>> 
>> -Aris
>> 
>>> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 9:05 PM Gaelan Steele  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sorry I forgot to bring this up earlier, but I think unless we have a use
>>> case for facilities with multiple types, we should just have a simple
>>> production/processing/{monument,other} option. This is well-written, but
>>> until we need it I think it would be better to avoid the complexity.
>>> 
>>> Gaelan
>>> 
 On Mar 2, 2018, at 1:37 PM, Kenyon Prater 
>> wrote:
 
 Gray Land and Fountain Draft 1 {
 
 Amend rule 1995/0 "Land Types" (Power=2.0):
   Replace "whose values are "Black", "White", and "Aether"", with the
   text "whose values are "Black", "White", "Gray", and "Aether""
 
 Create a new rule "Facility Categories", (Power=2.0):
   A Category is an entity specified as such by the rule that creates
>> it.
   A facility's Categories may be defined in the rule that creates it,
>>> and
   may be any set of Categories defined in the rules. If no Categories
>>> are
   defined in the facility's creating rules, the facility's Categories
>> is
   the null set.
 
   A facility belongs to [Category] if that Category is an element in
>> its
   Categories. A [Category] facility refers to a facility that belong
>> to
   [Category]. A Pure-[Category] facility refers to a facility that
>>> belong
   to [Category] and no others.
 
 Amend "Asset Generation with Facilities" (Power=2.0) to read the
>>> following:
   Asset Generator is a Category of facilities. When an Asset Generator
   facility creates assets, the assets are added to the facility's
   possession. The rule that creates an Asset Generator facility CAN
   specify a carrying capacity for assets. If, at any time, the amount
>> of
   an asset in the possession of an Asset Generator facility exceeds
>> that
   asset's carrying capacity, an amount of that asset is destroyed
>> until
   the amount of that asset in the possession of the facility is equal
>> to
   its carrying capacity.
 
   Production is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a
>>> Production
   facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
   Agoran Week, Agora creates a number of assets in a Production
>> facility
   specified by the rule which creates the facility.
 
   Processing is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a
>>> Processing
   facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
   Agoran Week, Agora destroys any refinable assets in the possession
>> of
   each processing facility that that facility can change into refined
   assets and replaces them with a corresponding number of refined
>> assets
   to be specified by the rule that creates the facility.
 
   A player can take a number of assets from an Asset Generator
>>> facility's
   inventory by announcement if eir location is the same as the
>>> facility's
   and the following criteria are met:
 
   1. if the facility is built on Public Land, none.
 
   2. if the facility is built on Communal Land, e must be a party to
  that contract and the text of the contract must permit em to do
  so.
 
   3. if the facility is built on Private Land, e must own the
  facility, or the owner must have consented.
 
 Amend "Facility Ranks" (Power=2.0) to read the following:
   Rank is a facility switch tracked by the Cartographor defaulting to
>> 1.
   Its possible values include all integers between 1 and 5, inclusive.
 
   If a facility specifies upgrade costs, a player CAN increase the
>> rank
   of a facility e owns that is at eir location by exactly 1 by
   announcement by paying any upgrade costs of the facility for that
   specific rank. If no upgrade costs are specified for a facility, a
   player CANNOT increase the rank of that facility unless specified in
   other rules.
 
 Create a new rule "Facility Colors" (Power=2.0):
   A facility's Allowed Land Types is a property defined as such,
>> having
   allowable 

Re: DIS: Grey Land and the Fountain

[Cuddle Beam]

I suggest adding an example along that extensibility to market the idea of
it better. Swag purely aesthetics ornaments, walls and teleporters,
perhaps? (Not entirely necessary though, it just makes it look better
because it has a purpose instead of being blank)

On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 8:44 AM, Aris Merchant <
thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm happy to admit that I may have been wrong on this one. However,
> extensibility is important. I was hoping we could do it in a short
> paragraph, not a whole rule. What do you guys think?
>
> -Aris
>
> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 9:05 PM Gaelan Steele  wrote:
>
> > Sorry I forgot to bring this up earlier, but I think unless we have a use
> > case for facilities with multiple types, we should just have a simple
> > production/processing/{monument,other} option. This is well-written, but
> > until we need it I think it would be better to avoid the complexity.
> >
> > Gaelan
> >
> > > On Mar 2, 2018, at 1:37 PM, Kenyon Prater 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Gray Land and Fountain Draft 1 {
> > >
> > > Amend rule 1995/0 "Land Types" (Power=2.0):
> > >Replace "whose values are "Black", "White", and "Aether"", with the
> > >text "whose values are "Black", "White", "Gray", and "Aether""
> > >
> > > Create a new rule "Facility Categories", (Power=2.0):
> > >A Category is an entity specified as such by the rule that creates
> it.
> > >A facility's Categories may be defined in the rule that creates it,
> > and
> > >may be any set of Categories defined in the rules. If no Categories
> > are
> > >defined in the facility's creating rules, the facility's Categories
> is
> > >the null set.
> > >
> > >A facility belongs to [Category] if that Category is an element in
> its
> > >Categories. A [Category] facility refers to a facility that belong
> to
> > >[Category]. A Pure-[Category] facility refers to a facility that
> > belong
> > >to [Category] and no others.
> > >
> > > Amend "Asset Generation with Facilities" (Power=2.0) to read the
> > following:
> > >Asset Generator is a Category of facilities. When an Asset Generator
> > >facility creates assets, the assets are added to the facility's
> > >possession. The rule that creates an Asset Generator facility CAN
> > >specify a carrying capacity for assets. If, at any time, the amount
> of
> > >an asset in the possession of an Asset Generator facility exceeds
> that
> > >asset's carrying capacity, an amount of that asset is destroyed
> until
> > >the amount of that asset in the possession of the facility is equal
> to
> > >its carrying capacity.
> > >
> > >Production is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a
> > Production
> > >facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
> > >Agoran Week, Agora creates a number of assets in a Production
> facility
> > >specified by the rule which creates the facility.
> > >
> > >Processing is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a
> > Processing
> > >facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
> > >Agoran Week, Agora destroys any refinable assets in the possession
> of
> > >each processing facility that that facility can change into refined
> > >assets and replaces them with a corresponding number of refined
> assets
> > >to be specified by the rule that creates the facility.
> > >
> > >A player can take a number of assets from an Asset Generator
> > facility's
> > >inventory by announcement if eir location is the same as the
> > facility's
> > >and the following criteria are met:
> > >
> > >1. if the facility is built on Public Land, none.
> > >
> > >2. if the facility is built on Communal Land, e must be a party to
> > >   that contract and the text of the contract must permit em to do
> > >   so.
> > >
> > >3. if the facility is built on Private Land, e must own the
> > >   facility, or the owner must have consented.
> > >
> > > Amend "Facility Ranks" (Power=2.0) to read the following:
> > >Rank is a facility switch tracked by the Cartographor defaulting to
> 1.
> > >Its possible values include all integers between 1 and 5, inclusive.
> > >
> > >If a facility specifies upgrade costs, a player CAN increase the
> rank
> > >of a facility e owns that is at eir location by exactly 1 by
> > >announcement by paying any upgrade costs of the facility for that
> > >specific rank. If no upgrade costs are specified for a facility, a
> > >player CANNOT increase the rank of that facility unless specified in
> > >other rules.
> > >
> > > Create a new rule "Facility Colors" (Power=2.0):
> > >A facility's Allowed Land Types is a property defined as such,
> having
> > >allowable values of any set of allowed values of the Land Type
> switch,
> > >with a default value of {"Black", "White"}. A facility may not have
> a
> > >   

Re: DIS: Grey Land and the Fountain

[Aris Merchant]

I'm happy to admit that I may have been wrong on this one. However,
extensibility is important. I was hoping we could do it in a short
paragraph, not a whole rule. What do you guys think?

-Aris

On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 9:05 PM Gaelan Steele  wrote:

> Sorry I forgot to bring this up earlier, but I think unless we have a use
> case for facilities with multiple types, we should just have a simple
> production/processing/{monument,other} option. This is well-written, but
> until we need it I think it would be better to avoid the complexity.
>
> Gaelan
>
> > On Mar 2, 2018, at 1:37 PM, Kenyon Prater  wrote:
> >
> > Gray Land and Fountain Draft 1 {
> >
> > Amend rule 1995/0 "Land Types" (Power=2.0):
> >Replace "whose values are "Black", "White", and "Aether"", with the
> >text "whose values are "Black", "White", "Gray", and "Aether""
> >
> > Create a new rule "Facility Categories", (Power=2.0):
> >A Category is an entity specified as such by the rule that creates it.
> >A facility's Categories may be defined in the rule that creates it,
> and
> >may be any set of Categories defined in the rules. If no Categories
> are
> >defined in the facility's creating rules, the facility's Categories is
> >the null set.
> >
> >A facility belongs to [Category] if that Category is an element in its
> >Categories. A [Category] facility refers to a facility that belong to
> >[Category]. A Pure-[Category] facility refers to a facility that
> belong
> >to [Category] and no others.
> >
> > Amend "Asset Generation with Facilities" (Power=2.0) to read the
> following:
> >Asset Generator is a Category of facilities. When an Asset Generator
> >facility creates assets, the assets are added to the facility's
> >possession. The rule that creates an Asset Generator facility CAN
> >specify a carrying capacity for assets. If, at any time, the amount of
> >an asset in the possession of an Asset Generator facility exceeds that
> >asset's carrying capacity, an amount of that asset is destroyed until
> >the amount of that asset in the possession of the facility is equal to
> >its carrying capacity.
> >
> >Production is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a
> Production
> >facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
> >Agoran Week, Agora creates a number of assets in a Production facility
> >specified by the rule which creates the facility.
> >
> >Processing is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a
> Processing
> >facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
> >Agoran Week, Agora destroys any refinable assets in the possession of
> >each processing facility that that facility can change into refined
> >assets and replaces them with a corresponding number of refined assets
> >to be specified by the rule that creates the facility.
> >
> >A player can take a number of assets from an Asset Generator
> facility's
> >inventory by announcement if eir location is the same as the
> facility's
> >and the following criteria are met:
> >
> >1. if the facility is built on Public Land, none.
> >
> >2. if the facility is built on Communal Land, e must be a party to
> >   that contract and the text of the contract must permit em to do
> >   so.
> >
> >3. if the facility is built on Private Land, e must own the
> >   facility, or the owner must have consented.
> >
> > Amend "Facility Ranks" (Power=2.0) to read the following:
> >Rank is a facility switch tracked by the Cartographor defaulting to 1.
> >Its possible values include all integers between 1 and 5, inclusive.
> >
> >If a facility specifies upgrade costs, a player CAN increase the rank
> >of a facility e owns that is at eir location by exactly 1 by
> >announcement by paying any upgrade costs of the facility for that
> >specific rank. If no upgrade costs are specified for a facility, a
> >player CANNOT increase the rank of that facility unless specified in
> >other rules.
> >
> > Create a new rule "Facility Colors" (Power=2.0):
> >A facility's Allowed Land Types is a property defined as such, having
> >allowable values of any set of allowed values of the Land Type switch,
> >with a default value of {"Black", "White"}. A facility may not have a
> >Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not an element of their Allowed
> >Land Types. If an action or set of actions would cause a facility to
> be
> >created with a Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not an element of
> >its Allowed Land Types, that action or set of actions fails. If a
> >facility's Parent Land Unit's Land Type is flipped to a color that is
> >not in that facility's Allowed Land Types, that facility, and anything
> >contained within, is destroyed.
> >
> > Create a new rule "Gray Land" (Power=2.0):
> >Gray Land is Land 

Re: DIS: Grey Land and the Fountain

[Gaelan Steele]

Sorry I forgot to bring this up earlier, but I think unless we have a use case 
for facilities with multiple types, we should just have a simple 
production/processing/{monument,other} option. This is well-written, but until 
we need it I think it would be better to avoid the complexity.

Gaelan 

> On Mar 2, 2018, at 1:37 PM, Kenyon Prater  wrote:
> 
> Gray Land and Fountain Draft 1 {
> 
> Amend rule 1995/0 "Land Types" (Power=2.0):
>Replace "whose values are "Black", "White", and "Aether"", with the
>text "whose values are "Black", "White", "Gray", and "Aether""
> 
> Create a new rule "Facility Categories", (Power=2.0):
>A Category is an entity specified as such by the rule that creates it.
>A facility's Categories may be defined in the rule that creates it, and
>may be any set of Categories defined in the rules. If no Categories are
>defined in the facility's creating rules, the facility's Categories is
>the null set.
> 
>A facility belongs to [Category] if that Category is an element in its
>Categories. A [Category] facility refers to a facility that belong to
>[Category]. A Pure-[Category] facility refers to a facility that belong
>to [Category] and no others.
> 
> Amend "Asset Generation with Facilities" (Power=2.0) to read the following:
>Asset Generator is a Category of facilities. When an Asset Generator
>facility creates assets, the assets are added to the facility's
>possession. The rule that creates an Asset Generator facility CAN
>specify a carrying capacity for assets. If, at any time, the amount of
>an asset in the possession of an Asset Generator facility exceeds that
>asset's carrying capacity, an amount of that asset is destroyed until
>the amount of that asset in the possession of the facility is equal to
>its carrying capacity.
> 
>Production is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a Production
>facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
>Agoran Week, Agora creates a number of assets in a Production facility
>specified by the rule which creates the facility.
> 
>Processing is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a Processing
>facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
>Agoran Week, Agora destroys any refinable assets in the possession of
>each processing facility that that facility can change into refined
>assets and replaces them with a corresponding number of refined assets
>to be specified by the rule that creates the facility.
> 
>A player can take a number of assets from an Asset Generator facility's
>inventory by announcement if eir location is the same as the facility's
>and the following criteria are met:
> 
>1. if the facility is built on Public Land, none.
> 
>2. if the facility is built on Communal Land, e must be a party to
>   that contract and the text of the contract must permit em to do
>   so.
> 
>3. if the facility is built on Private Land, e must own the
>   facility, or the owner must have consented.
> 
> Amend "Facility Ranks" (Power=2.0) to read the following:
>Rank is a facility switch tracked by the Cartographor defaulting to 1.
>Its possible values include all integers between 1 and 5, inclusive.
> 
>If a facility specifies upgrade costs, a player CAN increase the rank
>of a facility e owns that is at eir location by exactly 1 by
>announcement by paying any upgrade costs of the facility for that
>specific rank. If no upgrade costs are specified for a facility, a
>player CANNOT increase the rank of that facility unless specified in
>other rules.
> 
> Create a new rule "Facility Colors" (Power=2.0):
>A facility's Allowed Land Types is a property defined as such, having
>allowable values of any set of allowed values of the Land Type switch,
>with a default value of {"Black", "White"}. A facility may not have a
>Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not an element of their Allowed
>Land Types. If an action or set of actions would cause a facility to be
>created with a Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not an element of
>its Allowed Land Types, that action or set of actions fails. If a
>facility's Parent Land Unit's Land Type is flipped to a color that is
>not in that facility's Allowed Land Types, that facility, and anything
>contained within, is destroyed.
> 
> Create a new rule "Gray Land" (Power=2.0):
>Gray Land is Land whose Land Type switch is set to "Gray". Gray Land
>is preserved and owned by Agora. If Land becomes Gray Land, it, along
>with any facilities with it as their Parent Land Unit, are transfered
>to Agora, and the Land's preservation switch is set to true.
> 
> Create a new rule "Gray Actions" (Power=1.0):
>Players CAN destroy:
> 
>1. 1 apple to move from one Gray Land Unit to an adjacent Unit of any
>   Land Type 

Re: DIS: Grey Land and the Fountain

[Kenyon Prater]

On the use of switches: Is it appropriate to have something be a switch if
there isn't really any case in which its value would change other than a
rule change? I originally had a facility's Categories and Allowed Land
Types as Switches but I couldn't find any examples of them being used like
that. (Where under normal circumstances, nobody can flip them to a
different value except through proposal). The other changes are very
helpful, thanks! And re the MMI, I'll try and fix what I notice. If there's
things I don't fix in the next draft, let me know specifically where they
are, I feel like I might be missing some.

On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 2:35 PM, Reuben Staley 
wrote:

> Comments inline.
>
> On 3/2/2018 2:37 PM, Kenyon Prater wrote:
>
>> Gray Land and Fountain Draft 1 {
>>
>> Amend rule 1995/0 "Land Types" (Power=2.0):
>>  Replace "whose values are "Black", "White", and "Aether"", with the
>>  text "whose values are "Black", "White", "Gray", and "Aether""
>>
>> Create a new rule "Facility Categories", (Power=2.0):
>>  A Category is an entity specified as such by the rule that creates
>> it.
>>
>
> I don't understand what this is supposed to mean. Categories are entities?
> Why?
>
>  A facility's Categories may be defined in the rule that creates it,
>> and
>>  may be any set of Categories defined in the rules. If no Categories
>> are
>>  defined in the facility's creating rules, the facility's Categories
>> is
>>  the null set.
>>
>>  A facility belongs to [Category] if that Category is an element in
>> its
>>  Categories. A [Category] facility refers to a facility that belong to
>>  [Category]. A Pure-[Category] facility refers to a facility that
>> belong
>>  to [Category] and no others.
>>
>
> I'd recommend replacing "[Category]" with a single-letter variable like x
> or n or maybe even c. Not that this is wrong, it's just more Agoran to have
> it the other way.
>
> Amend "Asset Generation with Facilities" (Power=2.0) to read the following:
>>
>
> Rename this rule to something like "Types of Facilities" or smth.
>
>
>  Asset Generator is a Category of facilities. When an Asset Generator
>>  facility creates assets, the assets are added to the facility's
>>  possession. The rule that creates an Asset Generator facility CAN
>>  specify a carrying capacity for assets. If, at any time, the amount
>> of
>>  an asset in the possession of an Asset Generator facility exceeds
>> that
>>  asset's carrying capacity, an amount of that asset is destroyed until
>>  the amount of that asset in the possession of the facility is equal
>> to
>>  its carrying capacity.
>>
>>  Production is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a
>> Production
>>  facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
>>  Agoran Week, Agora creates a number of assets in a Production
>> facility
>>  specified by the rule which creates the facility.
>>
>>  Processing is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a
>> Processing
>>  facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
>>  Agoran Week, Agora destroys any refinable assets in the possession of
>>  each processing facility that that facility can change into refined
>>  assets and replaces them with a corresponding number of refined
>> assets
>>  to be specified by the rule that creates the facility.
>>
>>  A player can take a number of assets from an Asset Generator
>> facility's
>>  inventory by announcement if eir location is the same as the
>> facility's
>>  and the following criteria are met:
>>
>>  1. if the facility is built on Public Land, none.
>>
>>  2. if the facility is built on Communal Land, e must be a party to
>> that contract and the text of the contract must permit em to do
>> so.
>>
>>  3. if the facility is built on Private Land, e must own the
>> facility, or the owner must have consented.
>>
>
> This is a problem with the original PAoaM, not your proposal, but it sure
> looks like players can't transfer assets to facilities. Gaelan, better add
> that to the PAoaM patch proposal.
>
> Amend "Facility Ranks" (Power=2.0) to read the following:
>>  Rank is a facility switch tracked by the Cartographor defaulting to
>> 1.
>>  Its possible values include all integers between 1 and 5, inclusive.
>>
>>  If a facility specifies upgrade costs, a player CAN increase the rank
>>  of a facility e owns that is at eir location by exactly 1 by
>>  announcement by paying any upgrade costs of the facility for that
>>  specific rank. If no upgrade costs are specified for a facility, a
>>  player CANNOT increase the rank of that facility unless specified in
>>  other rules.
>>
>> Create a new rule "Facility Colors" (Power=2.0):
>>  A facility's Allowed Land Types is a property defined as such, having
>>
>
> Make Allowed Land 

Re: DIS: Grey Land and the Fountain

[Reuben Staley]

Comments inline.

On 3/2/2018 2:37 PM, Kenyon Prater wrote:

Gray Land and Fountain Draft 1 {

Amend rule 1995/0 "Land Types" (Power=2.0):
 Replace "whose values are "Black", "White", and "Aether"", with the
 text "whose values are "Black", "White", "Gray", and "Aether""

Create a new rule "Facility Categories", (Power=2.0):
 A Category is an entity specified as such by the rule that creates it.


I don't understand what this is supposed to mean. Categories are 
entities? Why?



 A facility's Categories may be defined in the rule that creates it, and
 may be any set of Categories defined in the rules. If no Categories are
 defined in the facility's creating rules, the facility's Categories is
 the null set.

 A facility belongs to [Category] if that Category is an element in its
 Categories. A [Category] facility refers to a facility that belong to
 [Category]. A Pure-[Category] facility refers to a facility that belong
 to [Category] and no others.


I'd recommend replacing "[Category]" with a single-letter variable like 
x or n or maybe even c. Not that this is wrong, it's just more Agoran to 
have it the other way.



Amend "Asset Generation with Facilities" (Power=2.0) to read the following:


Rename this rule to something like "Types of Facilities" or smth.


 Asset Generator is a Category of facilities. When an Asset Generator
 facility creates assets, the assets are added to the facility's
 possession. The rule that creates an Asset Generator facility CAN
 specify a carrying capacity for assets. If, at any time, the amount of
 an asset in the possession of an Asset Generator facility exceeds that
 asset's carrying capacity, an amount of that asset is destroyed until
 the amount of that asset in the possession of the facility is equal to
 its carrying capacity.

 Production is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a Production
 facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
 Agoran Week, Agora creates a number of assets in a Production facility
 specified by the rule which creates the facility.

 Processing is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a Processing
 facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
 Agoran Week, Agora destroys any refinable assets in the possession of
 each processing facility that that facility can change into refined
 assets and replaces them with a corresponding number of refined assets
 to be specified by the rule that creates the facility.

 A player can take a number of assets from an Asset Generator facility's
 inventory by announcement if eir location is the same as the facility's
 and the following criteria are met:

 1. if the facility is built on Public Land, none.

 2. if the facility is built on Communal Land, e must be a party to
that contract and the text of the contract must permit em to do
so.

 3. if the facility is built on Private Land, e must own the
facility, or the owner must have consented.


This is a problem with the original PAoaM, not your proposal, but it 
sure looks like players can't transfer assets to facilities. Gaelan, 
better add that to the PAoaM patch proposal.



Amend "Facility Ranks" (Power=2.0) to read the following:
 Rank is a facility switch tracked by the Cartographor defaulting to 1.
 Its possible values include all integers between 1 and 5, inclusive.

 If a facility specifies upgrade costs, a player CAN increase the rank
 of a facility e owns that is at eir location by exactly 1 by
 announcement by paying any upgrade costs of the facility for that
 specific rank. If no upgrade costs are specified for a facility, a
 player CANNOT increase the rank of that facility unless specified in
 other rules.

Create a new rule "Facility Colors" (Power=2.0):
 A facility's Allowed Land Types is a property defined as such, having


Make Allowed Land Types a switch with the possible values of a list of 
allowed Land Types. Also, I think to keep consistent with the title, you 
should have it be maybe named the color switch.



 allowable values of any set of allowed values of the Land Type switch,
 with a default value of {"Black", "White"}. A facility may not have a
 Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not an element of their Allowed
 Land Types. If an action or set of actions would cause a facility to be
 created with a Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not an element of
 its Allowed Land Types, that action or set of actions fails. If a
 facility's Parent Land Unit's Land Type is flipped to a color that is
 not in that facility's Allowed Land Types, that facility, and anything
 contained within, is destroyed.


"and anything contained within" is gratuitous. Not saying you have to 
remove it, but it's sort of implied, for future notice.


Also, I still 

Re: DIS: Grey Land and the Fountain

[Kenyon Prater]

Gray Land and Fountain Draft 1 {

Amend rule 1995/0 "Land Types" (Power=2.0):
Replace "whose values are "Black", "White", and "Aether"", with the
text "whose values are "Black", "White", "Gray", and "Aether""

Create a new rule "Facility Categories", (Power=2.0):
A Category is an entity specified as such by the rule that creates it.
A facility's Categories may be defined in the rule that creates it, and
may be any set of Categories defined in the rules. If no Categories are
defined in the facility's creating rules, the facility's Categories is
the null set.

A facility belongs to [Category] if that Category is an element in its
Categories. A [Category] facility refers to a facility that belong to
[Category]. A Pure-[Category] facility refers to a facility that belong
to [Category] and no others.

Amend "Asset Generation with Facilities" (Power=2.0) to read the following:
Asset Generator is a Category of facilities. When an Asset Generator
facility creates assets, the assets are added to the facility's
possession. The rule that creates an Asset Generator facility CAN
specify a carrying capacity for assets. If, at any time, the amount of
an asset in the possession of an Asset Generator facility exceeds that
asset's carrying capacity, an amount of that asset is destroyed until
the amount of that asset in the possession of the facility is equal to
its carrying capacity.

Production is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a Production
facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
Agoran Week, Agora creates a number of assets in a Production facility
specified by the rule which creates the facility.

Processing is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a Processing
facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
Agoran Week, Agora destroys any refinable assets in the possession of
each processing facility that that facility can change into refined
assets and replaces them with a corresponding number of refined assets
to be specified by the rule that creates the facility.

A player can take a number of assets from an Asset Generator facility's
inventory by announcement if eir location is the same as the facility's
and the following criteria are met:

1. if the facility is built on Public Land, none.

2. if the facility is built on Communal Land, e must be a party to
   that contract and the text of the contract must permit em to do
   so.

3. if the facility is built on Private Land, e must own the
   facility, or the owner must have consented.

Amend "Facility Ranks" (Power=2.0) to read the following:
Rank is a facility switch tracked by the Cartographor defaulting to 1.
Its possible values include all integers between 1 and 5, inclusive.

If a facility specifies upgrade costs, a player CAN increase the rank
of a facility e owns that is at eir location by exactly 1 by
announcement by paying any upgrade costs of the facility for that
specific rank. If no upgrade costs are specified for a facility, a
player CANNOT increase the rank of that facility unless specified in
other rules.

Create a new rule "Facility Colors" (Power=2.0):
A facility's Allowed Land Types is a property defined as such, having
allowable values of any set of allowed values of the Land Type switch,
with a default value of {"Black", "White"}. A facility may not have a
Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not an element of their Allowed
Land Types. If an action or set of actions would cause a facility to be
created with a Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not an element of
its Allowed Land Types, that action or set of actions fails. If a
facility's Parent Land Unit's Land Type is flipped to a color that is
not in that facility's Allowed Land Types, that facility, and anything
contained within, is destroyed.

Create a new rule "Gray Land" (Power=2.0):
Gray Land is Land whose Land Type switch is set to "Gray". Gray Land
is preserved and owned by Agora. If Land becomes Gray Land, it, along
with any facilities with it as their Parent Land Unit, are transfered
to Agora, and the Land's preservation switch is set to true.

Create a new rule "Gray Actions" (Power=1.0):
Players CAN destroy:

1. 1 apple to move from one Gray Land Unit to an adjacent Unit of any
   Land Type that is not Aether;

2. 1 apple to move from one Land Unit of any Land Type to an adjacent
   Gray Land Unit.

Players CAN, while performing the above actions, substitute 3
apples for 1 corn. [Maybe need a good way to say that these actions can
be combined with actions described in Actions in Arcadia for the
purposes of spending corn.]

Create a new rule "Agoran Monuments" (Power=1.0):
Agoran Monument is a Category of facilities. For each type of Agoran

Re: DIS: Grey Land and the Fountain

[Cuddle Beam]

I think non-Proc/Prod facilities would be great. Walls or streets for
example would be cool.

On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 1:01 AM, Aris Merchant <
thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'd go with solution 2, but modified. What if we made it so that each
> facility could fit into (0 or more) "categories", and defined Production
> and Processing as categories. That way, we could extend it later without
> dealing with an exponential increase in the number of types. It also leave
> flexibility if we want to do 3 later.
>
> -Aris
>
> On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 2:15 PM Kenyon Prater 
> wrote:
>
> > I ran into a problem that I figured I'd share and ask for input.
> >
> > "Asset Generation with Facilities" specifies that "Each facility is
> either
> > a production facility or processing facility". The draft up there
> specifies
> > that a fountain is a facility, but that it neither produces nor processes
> > anything. There are a couple solutions that I see:
> >
> > 1) A fountain is a production facility that produces nothing, or a
> > processing facility that processes nothing. Easy, kinda a hack, but it'll
> > work.
> > 2) Modify "Asset Generation with Facilities" so facilities can have a
> type
> > of any element in {None, Production, Processing, Production &
> Processing},
> > and fountains are type None.
> > 3) Define "buildings" as a superset/superclass of facilities, move the
> > shared rules to new rules about Buildings, and have fountain and facility
> > be types of buildings with their own specific sub-rules. Easily the most
> > flexible, but requires a fairly significant refactor, so it only really
> > seems worth it if this is going to be a recurring problem. If the
> fountain
> > is the only non-facility-facility we add, we might as well go with 1 or
> 2.
> > If we're adding a ton of non-production buildings (arenas, houses, roads,
> > whatever) then this might be worth it?
> >
> > Not sure if there's a smarter solution here, but I just wanted to get
> > feedback to see if people were OK with 1 or if they thought 2 and 3 were
> > better, or if there's another option I didn't consider.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Kenyon
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Reuben Staley 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Comments inline.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:22 PM, Aris Merchant
> > >  wrote:
> > > > I like this. I'll have more detailed comments when it's typed up in a
> > > > proposal, but I think that this fits with the spirit of what we're
> > going
> > > > for. Certainly it is a good idea to have a neutral spawn point, even
> if
> > > the
> > > > colors don't mean that much yet. I suggest just calling the facility
> > type
> > > > "fountain", and letting people refer to it as "the fountain", because
> > > > there's only one. You could even make it an explicit singleton.
> > Something
> > > > to the effect of "There is a unique facility, know as 'the fountain',
> > and
> > > > (0, 0). It... ." I'd also suggest not referencing
> > > >  Rule 2029 by number (and definitely don't include the revision id).
> > > > Instead, either just say "the town fountain", or let people figure it
> > out
> > > > for themselves (my personal favored option).
> > >
> > > I agree with everything Aris said here.
> > >
> > > > -Aris
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:05 PM Kenyon Prater  >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> A very rough draft for a proposal. I'm going to hold off on writing
> it
> > > up
> > > >> until the current mess is resolved, but I wanted to get feedback on
> > > whether
> > > >> the idea is interesting to people
> > > >>
> > > >> The proposal would: {
> > > >>
> > > >> Create a Land Type of "Gray". Land that has Land Type "Gray" is gray
> > > land.
> > > >>
> > > >> Gray land cannot support any facilities except those specifically
> > > stated to
> > > >> be allowed on gray land. If land becomes gray land, any facilities
> on
> > it
> > > >> are destroyed, except for those specifically stated to be allowed on
> > > gray
> > > >> land.
> > >
> > > Maybe to avoid redundancy, you could term these facilities "gray
> > > facilities". Or even make a rule that says "X facilities" where X is a
> > > land type in case we decide to restrict the land types some facilities
> > > can be on in the future.
> > >
> > > >> Gray land cannot be owned by any entity other than Agora. If land
> > > becomes
> > > >> Gray land, it is transfered to Agora.
> > >
> > > *transferred. Maybe also say that Gray land is always preserved. That
> > > way, no one can modify any of the facilities on the gray land.
> > >
> > > >> Gray land is treated as "the same" as both white and black for the
> > > purposes
> > > >> of movement, ie it only costs one apple to move from any non-aether
> > > land to
> > > >> gray, and only one apple to move from gray to any non-aether land.
> > > >>
> > > >> Set (0, 0) to Gray land.
> > > >>
> > > >> Create a 

Re: DIS: Grey Land and the Fountain

[Aris Merchant]

I'd go with solution 2, but modified. What if we made it so that each
facility could fit into (0 or more) "categories", and defined Production
and Processing as categories. That way, we could extend it later without
dealing with an exponential increase in the number of types. It also leave
flexibility if we want to do 3 later.

-Aris

On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 2:15 PM Kenyon Prater  wrote:

> I ran into a problem that I figured I'd share and ask for input.
>
> "Asset Generation with Facilities" specifies that "Each facility is either
> a production facility or processing facility". The draft up there specifies
> that a fountain is a facility, but that it neither produces nor processes
> anything. There are a couple solutions that I see:
>
> 1) A fountain is a production facility that produces nothing, or a
> processing facility that processes nothing. Easy, kinda a hack, but it'll
> work.
> 2) Modify "Asset Generation with Facilities" so facilities can have a type
> of any element in {None, Production, Processing, Production & Processing},
> and fountains are type None.
> 3) Define "buildings" as a superset/superclass of facilities, move the
> shared rules to new rules about Buildings, and have fountain and facility
> be types of buildings with their own specific sub-rules. Easily the most
> flexible, but requires a fairly significant refactor, so it only really
> seems worth it if this is going to be a recurring problem. If the fountain
> is the only non-facility-facility we add, we might as well go with 1 or 2.
> If we're adding a ton of non-production buildings (arenas, houses, roads,
> whatever) then this might be worth it?
>
> Not sure if there's a smarter solution here, but I just wanted to get
> feedback to see if people were OK with 1 or if they thought 2 and 3 were
> better, or if there's another option I didn't consider.
>
> Thanks,
> Kenyon
>
> On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Reuben Staley 
> wrote:
>
> > Comments inline.
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:22 PM, Aris Merchant
> >  wrote:
> > > I like this. I'll have more detailed comments when it's typed up in a
> > > proposal, but I think that this fits with the spirit of what we're
> going
> > > for. Certainly it is a good idea to have a neutral spawn point, even if
> > the
> > > colors don't mean that much yet. I suggest just calling the facility
> type
> > > "fountain", and letting people refer to it as "the fountain", because
> > > there's only one. You could even make it an explicit singleton.
> Something
> > > to the effect of "There is a unique facility, know as 'the fountain',
> and
> > > (0, 0). It... ." I'd also suggest not referencing
> > >  Rule 2029 by number (and definitely don't include the revision id).
> > > Instead, either just say "the town fountain", or let people figure it
> out
> > > for themselves (my personal favored option).
> >
> > I agree with everything Aris said here.
> >
> > > -Aris
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:05 PM Kenyon Prater 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> A very rough draft for a proposal. I'm going to hold off on writing it
> > up
> > >> until the current mess is resolved, but I wanted to get feedback on
> > whether
> > >> the idea is interesting to people
> > >>
> > >> The proposal would: {
> > >>
> > >> Create a Land Type of "Gray". Land that has Land Type "Gray" is gray
> > land.
> > >>
> > >> Gray land cannot support any facilities except those specifically
> > stated to
> > >> be allowed on gray land. If land becomes gray land, any facilities on
> it
> > >> are destroyed, except for those specifically stated to be allowed on
> > gray
> > >> land.
> >
> > Maybe to avoid redundancy, you could term these facilities "gray
> > facilities". Or even make a rule that says "X facilities" where X is a
> > land type in case we decide to restrict the land types some facilities
> > can be on in the future.
> >
> > >> Gray land cannot be owned by any entity other than Agora. If land
> > becomes
> > >> Gray land, it is transfered to Agora.
> >
> > *transferred. Maybe also say that Gray land is always preserved. That
> > way, no one can modify any of the facilities on the gray land.
> >
> > >> Gray land is treated as "the same" as both white and black for the
> > purposes
> > >> of movement, ie it only costs one apple to move from any non-aether
> > land to
> > >> gray, and only one apple to move from gray to any non-aether land.
> > >>
> > >> Set (0, 0) to Gray land.
> > >>
> > >> Create a new facility type "the fountain". Only one the fountain may
> > exist
> > >> at any one time. The fountain may exist on gray land, and may only
> > exist on
> > >> gray land. Players MAY and SHOULD think of this fountain as referring
> to
> > >> the one depicted in Rule 2029/0 "Town Fountain". The fountain may only
> > be
> > >> owned by Agora. The fountain has no upkeep cost, and neither refines
> nor
> > >> produces 

Re: DIS: Grey Land and the Fountain

[Kenyon Prater]

I ran into a problem that I figured I'd share and ask for input.

"Asset Generation with Facilities" specifies that "Each facility is either
a production facility or processing facility". The draft up there specifies
that a fountain is a facility, but that it neither produces nor processes
anything. There are a couple solutions that I see:

1) A fountain is a production facility that produces nothing, or a
processing facility that processes nothing. Easy, kinda a hack, but it'll
work.
2) Modify "Asset Generation with Facilities" so facilities can have a type
of any element in {None, Production, Processing, Production & Processing},
and fountains are type None.
3) Define "buildings" as a superset/superclass of facilities, move the
shared rules to new rules about Buildings, and have fountain and facility
be types of buildings with their own specific sub-rules. Easily the most
flexible, but requires a fairly significant refactor, so it only really
seems worth it if this is going to be a recurring problem. If the fountain
is the only non-facility-facility we add, we might as well go with 1 or 2.
If we're adding a ton of non-production buildings (arenas, houses, roads,
whatever) then this might be worth it?

Not sure if there's a smarter solution here, but I just wanted to get
feedback to see if people were OK with 1 or if they thought 2 and 3 were
better, or if there's another option I didn't consider.

Thanks,
Kenyon

On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Reuben Staley 
wrote:

> Comments inline.
>
> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:22 PM, Aris Merchant
>  wrote:
> > I like this. I'll have more detailed comments when it's typed up in a
> > proposal, but I think that this fits with the spirit of what we're going
> > for. Certainly it is a good idea to have a neutral spawn point, even if
> the
> > colors don't mean that much yet. I suggest just calling the facility type
> > "fountain", and letting people refer to it as "the fountain", because
> > there's only one. You could even make it an explicit singleton. Something
> > to the effect of "There is a unique facility, know as 'the fountain', and
> > (0, 0). It... ." I'd also suggest not referencing
> >  Rule 2029 by number (and definitely don't include the revision id).
> > Instead, either just say "the town fountain", or let people figure it out
> > for themselves (my personal favored option).
>
> I agree with everything Aris said here.
>
> > -Aris
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:05 PM Kenyon Prater 
> wrote:
> >
> >> A very rough draft for a proposal. I'm going to hold off on writing it
> up
> >> until the current mess is resolved, but I wanted to get feedback on
> whether
> >> the idea is interesting to people
> >>
> >> The proposal would: {
> >>
> >> Create a Land Type of "Gray". Land that has Land Type "Gray" is gray
> land.
> >>
> >> Gray land cannot support any facilities except those specifically
> stated to
> >> be allowed on gray land. If land becomes gray land, any facilities on it
> >> are destroyed, except for those specifically stated to be allowed on
> gray
> >> land.
>
> Maybe to avoid redundancy, you could term these facilities "gray
> facilities". Or even make a rule that says "X facilities" where X is a
> land type in case we decide to restrict the land types some facilities
> can be on in the future.
>
> >> Gray land cannot be owned by any entity other than Agora. If land
> becomes
> >> Gray land, it is transfered to Agora.
>
> *transferred. Maybe also say that Gray land is always preserved. That
> way, no one can modify any of the facilities on the gray land.
>
> >> Gray land is treated as "the same" as both white and black for the
> purposes
> >> of movement, ie it only costs one apple to move from any non-aether
> land to
> >> gray, and only one apple to move from gray to any non-aether land.
> >>
> >> Set (0, 0) to Gray land.
> >>
> >> Create a new facility type "the fountain". Only one the fountain may
> exist
> >> at any one time. The fountain may exist on gray land, and may only
> exist on
> >> gray land. Players MAY and SHOULD think of this fountain as referring to
> >> the one depicted in Rule 2029/0 "Town Fountain". The fountain may only
> be
> >> owned by Agora. The fountain has no upkeep cost, and neither refines nor
> >> produces anything, except as specified in other proposals.
>
> Just "Fountain" please.
>
> >> Create a "the fountain" at (0, 0) belonging to Agora.
> >>
> >> }
> >>
> >> My goal with the draft was to to;
> >> 1) make the number of preserved squares each color had equal.
> >> 2) To ensure that the spawn at (0,0) was neutral to both colors (right
> now,
> >> a player residing on one of the colors has to spend an extra apple to
> move
> >> back home as compared to somebody residing equally far on the other
> color).
> >> 3) To provide a meeting ground for players for future rules to use. One
> >> could imagine a rule specifying that all 

Re: DIS: Grey Land and the Fountain

[Reuben Staley]

Comments inline.

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:22 PM, Aris Merchant
 wrote:
> I like this. I'll have more detailed comments when it's typed up in a
> proposal, but I think that this fits with the spirit of what we're going
> for. Certainly it is a good idea to have a neutral spawn point, even if the
> colors don't mean that much yet. I suggest just calling the facility type
> "fountain", and letting people refer to it as "the fountain", because
> there's only one. You could even make it an explicit singleton. Something
> to the effect of "There is a unique facility, know as 'the fountain', and
> (0, 0). It... ." I'd also suggest not referencing
>  Rule 2029 by number (and definitely don't include the revision id).
> Instead, either just say "the town fountain", or let people figure it out
> for themselves (my personal favored option).

I agree with everything Aris said here.

> -Aris
>
> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:05 PM Kenyon Prater  wrote:
>
>> A very rough draft for a proposal. I'm going to hold off on writing it up
>> until the current mess is resolved, but I wanted to get feedback on whether
>> the idea is interesting to people
>>
>> The proposal would: {
>>
>> Create a Land Type of "Gray". Land that has Land Type "Gray" is gray land.
>>
>> Gray land cannot support any facilities except those specifically stated to
>> be allowed on gray land. If land becomes gray land, any facilities on it
>> are destroyed, except for those specifically stated to be allowed on gray
>> land.

Maybe to avoid redundancy, you could term these facilities "gray
facilities". Or even make a rule that says "X facilities" where X is a
land type in case we decide to restrict the land types some facilities
can be on in the future.

>> Gray land cannot be owned by any entity other than Agora. If land becomes
>> Gray land, it is transfered to Agora.

*transferred. Maybe also say that Gray land is always preserved. That
way, no one can modify any of the facilities on the gray land.

>> Gray land is treated as "the same" as both white and black for the purposes
>> of movement, ie it only costs one apple to move from any non-aether land to
>> gray, and only one apple to move from gray to any non-aether land.
>>
>> Set (0, 0) to Gray land.
>>
>> Create a new facility type "the fountain". Only one the fountain may exist
>> at any one time. The fountain may exist on gray land, and may only exist on
>> gray land. Players MAY and SHOULD think of this fountain as referring to
>> the one depicted in Rule 2029/0 "Town Fountain". The fountain may only be
>> owned by Agora. The fountain has no upkeep cost, and neither refines nor
>> produces anything, except as specified in other proposals.

Just "Fountain" please.

>> Create a "the fountain" at (0, 0) belonging to Agora.
>>
>> }
>>
>> My goal with the draft was to to;
>> 1) make the number of preserved squares each color had equal.
>> 2) To ensure that the spawn at (0,0) was neutral to both colors (right now,
>> a player residing on one of the colors has to spend an extra apple to move
>> back home as compared to somebody residing equally far on the other color).
>> 3) To provide a meeting ground for players for future rules to use. One
>> could imagine a rule specifying that all players at (0,0) on Agora's
>> Birthday CAN [do something]. Or this could be integrated into the justice
>> reform; to rid themselves of weevils/blots/whatever, players must make a
>> pilgrimage to the fountain to give [currency].

Very nice. Perhaps Cuddlebeam's idea for arenas could have a physical
manifestation on a piece of gray land. This also makes it really nice
for future Agora-sponsored activities that take place on a map.

-- 
Trigon

Re: DIS: Grey Land and the Fountain

[Aris Merchant]

I like this. I'll have more detailed comments when it's typed up in a
proposal, but I think that this fits with the spirit of what we're going
for. Certainly it is a good idea to have a neutral spawn point, even if the
colors don't mean that much yet. I suggest just calling the facility type
"fountain", and letting people refer to it as "the fountain", because
there's only one. You could even make it an explicit singleton. Something
to the effect of "There is a unique facility, know as 'the fountain', and
(0, 0). It... ." I'd also suggest not referencing
 Rule 2029 by number (and definitely don't include the revision id).
Instead, either just say "the town fountain", or let people figure it out
for themselves (my personal favored option).

-Aris

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:05 PM Kenyon Prater  wrote:

> A very rough draft for a proposal. I'm going to hold off on writing it up
> until the current mess is resolved, but I wanted to get feedback on whether
> the idea is interesting to people
>
> The proposal would: {
>
> Create a Land Type of "Gray". Land that has Land Type "Gray" is gray land.
>
> Gray land cannot support any facilities except those specifically stated to
> be allowed on gray land. If land becomes gray land, any facilities on it
> are destroyed, except for those specifically stated to be allowed on gray
> land.
>
> Gray land cannot be owned by any entity other than Agora. If land becomes
> Gray land, it is transfered to Agora.
>
> Gray land is treated as "the same" as both white and black for the purposes
> of movement, ie it only costs one apple to move from any non-aether land to
> gray, and only one apple to move from gray to any non-aether land.
>
> Set (0, 0) to Gray land.
>
> Create a new facility type "the fountain". Only one the fountain may exist
> at any one time. The fountain may exist on gray land, and may only exist on
> gray land. Players MAY and SHOULD think of this fountain as referring to
> the one depicted in Rule 2029/0 "Town Fountain". The fountain may only be
> owned by Agora. The fountain has no upkeep cost, and neither refines nor
> produces anything, except as specified in other proposals.
>
> Create a "the fountain" at (0, 0) belonging to Agora.
>
> }
>
> My goal with the draft was to to;
> 1) make the number of preserved squares each color had equal.
> 2) To ensure that the spawn at (0,0) was neutral to both colors (right now,
> a player residing on one of the colors has to spend an extra apple to move
> back home as compared to somebody residing equally far on the other color).
> 3) To provide a meeting ground for players for future rules to use. One
> could imagine a rule specifying that all players at (0,0) on Agora's
> Birthday CAN [do something]. Or this could be integrated into the justice
> reform; to rid themselves of weevils/blots/whatever, players must make a
> pilgrimage to the fountain to give [currency].
>

DIS: Grey Land and the Fountain

[Kenyon Prater]

A very rough draft for a proposal. I'm going to hold off on writing it up
until the current mess is resolved, but I wanted to get feedback on whether
the idea is interesting to people

The proposal would: {

Create a Land Type of "Gray". Land that has Land Type "Gray" is gray land.

Gray land cannot support any facilities except those specifically stated to
be allowed on gray land. If land becomes gray land, any facilities on it
are destroyed, except for those specifically stated to be allowed on gray
land.

Gray land cannot be owned by any entity other than Agora. If land becomes
Gray land, it is transfered to Agora.

Gray land is treated as "the same" as both white and black for the purposes
of movement, ie it only costs one apple to move from any non-aether land to
gray, and only one apple to move from gray to any non-aether land.

Set (0, 0) to Gray land.

Create a new facility type "the fountain". Only one the fountain may exist
at any one time. The fountain may exist on gray land, and may only exist on
gray land. Players MAY and SHOULD think of this fountain as referring to
the one depicted in Rule 2029/0 "Town Fountain". The fountain may only be
owned by Agora. The fountain has no upkeep cost, and neither refines nor
produces anything, except as specified in other proposals.

Create a "the fountain" at (0, 0) belonging to Agora.

}

My goal with the draft was to to;
1) make the number of preserved squares each color had equal.
2) To ensure that the spawn at (0,0) was neutral to both colors (right now,
a player residing on one of the colors has to spend an extra apple to move
back home as compared to somebody residing equally far on the other color).
3) To provide a meeting ground for players for future rules to use. One
could imagine a rule specifying that all players at (0,0) on Agora's
Birthday CAN [do something]. Or this could be integrated into the justice
reform; to rid themselves of weevils/blots/whatever, players must make a
pilgrimage to the fountain to give [currency].