I don't think your idea is going to work well too. The problem is,
there are some applications that need to run in the background (and
i'm not talking about the system applications here).
Let's assume you got some kind of scheduler which shall notify a user
when a certain event or time occurs.
Subject: [android-developers] Re: Anything on Android that can do smooth
scrolling?
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com
wrote:
So, we're back then to square 1 - how do we make Android *appear* that
it runs an application exclusively.
This is already something
[mailto:android-develop...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Romain Guy
Sent: 26 March 2009 22:12
To: android-developers@googlegroups.com
Subject: [android-developers] Re: Anything on Android that can do smooth
scrolling?
Have multiple cores :)
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da
@googlegroups.com
Subject: [android-developers] Re: Anything on Android that can do smooth
scrolling?
Yeah... none of them have background apps.
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 2:33 AM, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote:
Ahh so that's how the PSP, DS, and iPhone do it Hold up, that
doesn't
: android-developers@googlegroups.com
[mailto:android-develop...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Romain Guy
Sent: 26 March 2009 22:12
To: android-developers@googlegroups.com
Subject: [android-developers] Re: Anything on Android that can do
smooth scrolling?
Have multiple cores :)
On Thu, Mar 26
To: android-developers@googlegroups.com
Subject: [android-developers] Re: Anything on Android that can do smooth
scrolling?
No, I was not pointing back to this idea.
And the PS3 does that because it's a *video game console.* On which you
usually do *one thing at a time.*
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 2
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote:
I guess it comes down to the choice of do we want high performance games on
Android or not.
At the moment it seems clear that due to the ability of background tasks to
continue running it is next to impossible to
2009 09:47
To: android-developers@googlegroups.com
Subject: [android-developers] Re: Anything on Android that can do smooth
scrolling?
No, I was not pointing back to this idea.
And the PS3 does that because it's a *video game console.* On which you
usually do *one thing at a time.*
On Fri
: [android-developers] Re: Anything on Android that can do smooth
scrolling?
Yep, *exclusively* would not be a good idea. The user still would want
phone-calls to come in and other such tasks.
But wouldn't causing Android to be a bit (a lot) more aggresive in cleaning
up not-so-important processes
Subject: [android-developers] Re: Anything on Android that can do
smooth scrolling?
Yeah... none of them have background apps.
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 2:33 AM, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote:
Ahh so that's how the PSP, DS, and iPhone do it Hold up, that
doesn't sound right
Message-
From: android-developers@googlegroups.com
[mailto:android-develop...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Romain Guy
Sent: 27 March 2009 09:38
To: android-developers@googlegroups.com
Subject: [android-developers] Re: Anything on Android that can do
smooth
scrolling?
Yeah... none
Subject: [android-developers] Re: Anything on Android that can do smooth
scrolling?
No, I was not pointing back to this idea.
And the PS3 does that because it's a *video game console.* On which you
usually do *one thing at a time.*
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 2:44 AM, Al Sutton
@googlegroups.com
Subject: [android-developers] Re: Anything on Android that can do smooth
scrolling?
Have multiple cores :)
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 11:53 PM, Romain Guy romain...@google.com wrote:
Once again it has NOTHING
@googlegroups.com
[mailto:android-develop...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Romain Guy
Sent: 26 March 2009 22:12
To: android-developers@googlegroups.com
Subject: [android-developers] Re: Anything on Android that can do
smooth scrolling?
Have multiple cores :)
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 3:10 PM
I strongly agree with the idea that foreground processes should be
preferred. Currently I develop a game, which - like most games -
relies on a constant high frame rate. At first, the game pretty sloppy
until I realized some background app was draining CPU resources. So I
uninstalled some of them
-developers@googlegroups.com
[mailto:android-develop...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Romain Guy
Sent: 27 March 2009 10:17
To: android-developers@googlegroups.com
Subject: [android-developers] Re: Anything on Android that can do smooth
scrolling?
You are looking at *ONE* use case. Android is trying
I was thinking on the same lines. Maybe have a Gaming Mode where the
user knowingly chooses to turn the device into a games machine for
better performance.
Pd.
Markus Junginger wrote:
I strongly agree with the idea that foreground processes should be
preferred. Currently I develop a game,
: [android-developers] Re: Anything on Android that can do smooth
scrolling?
No, I was not pointing back to this idea.
And the PS3 does that because it's a *video game console.* On which you
usually do *one thing at a time.*
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 2:44 AM, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote
I call hack again. Imagine what the Android haters would say
IMMEDIATELY! Your phone has to have a special mode to handle a simple
display smoothly? BWAHAHAHA etc. etc.
On Mar 27, 7:43 am, Pd lotusscr...@gmail.com wrote:
I was thinking on the same lines. Maybe have a Gaming Mode where the
As you know the technical reasons you would think along those lines.
Consumers don't know the ins and outs of the device so they probably
wouldn't think the same as you or I. Turning a negative into a
positive, a good marketing team would have a field day with this.
Something along the
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Sundog sunns...@gmail.com wrote:
I call hack again. Imagine what the Android haters would say
IMMEDIATELY! Your phone has to have a special mode to handle a simple
display smoothly? BWAHAHAHA etc. etc.
On Mar 27, 7:43 am, Pd lotusscr...@gmail.com wrote:
I think you are doing a disservice to the intelligence of both Android
users and Iphone users... they're more sophisticated than THAT! BWA
HA HA, your little Android has to have a special mode for what
everything else can do out of the box... I don't think people are as
gullible as you do, lol.
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 2:35 AM, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote:
Or an Exclusive app and App that can pause exclusive app pair of
permissions.
If you really want to make this user friendly the settings page could allow
users to select which apps with the App that can pause exclusive
Currently our approach for scheduling is that apps doing background work on
a thread should lower that thread's priority
Whoops. I released an app that didn't do this. It's not obvious, I
think.
We are looking at more strongly enforcing that background applications can
not take too many
[/QUOTE]
I think you are doing a disservice to the intelligence of both Android users
and Iphone users
[/QUOTE]
Copy and Paste :-)
Now that is exciting stuff! lol
Where Google engineers are concerned I have complete and total respect
for them. I know they will do the right thing.
The hack comment is not to say can't do it, users will know it's a
hack, it's more like can't be done, the core team is too good to
throw in a hack. If they're like most programmers I know, they'd quit
before writing code they perceived as a hack. And this WOULD be a hack
of gigantic
On Mar 27, 10:16 am, Romain Guy romain...@google.com wrote:
We know when to cut corners :) Hacks have their own qualities but not
at the API/interaction level. Hacks are fine when it comes to
implementation details.
Heh. I'm Old School (tm)... hacks in the operating system are not OK.
Subject: [android-developers] Re: Anything on Android that can do smooth
scrolling?
You are looking at *ONE* use case. Android is trying to provide an
efficient
system to the users that also allows background apps. I'm not saying it's
an
easy problem to solve, I'm saying that the comparison
It would be really good to get a post in the Android blog regarding this.I
found out about the thread priority when coding my activity.
My twitter app allows you to read stored tweets while it gets the new ones
+ pictures on background.
It was scrolling really bad (like SlideMe) until I
This just emphasises the need for some sort of liason layer between
app developers and the core team that wouldn't cause them so much
irritation that it pushes them into acting unprofessionally.
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are
They are engineers, professionals, programmers. Don't expect them to act
like a technical support guy.
I prefer to read WTF, you are doing it all wrong! from them that crap like
This is not the proper way to achieve that. Please refer to the Developer
Documentation at http://linktodevdocs.com;
@googlegroups.com
[mailto:android-develop...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Romain Guy
Sent: 27 March 2009 09:47
To: android-developers@googlegroups.com
Subject: [android-developers] Re: Anything on Android that can do
smooth scrolling?
No, I was not pointing back to this idea
March 2009 16:40
To: android-developers@googlegroups.com
Subject: [android-developers] Re: Anything on Android that can do smooth
scrolling?
Okay I have to assume at this point that you two are actually trolling.
First, NOBODY has said that it isn't important to be able to do well
performing games
Also, as long as we don't have conditional permissions the user has to take
the game with the optimization always on and cannot opt to still get his
or her tweets/emails/whatever for a smoother scrolling experience.
I feel it very much looks like a hack.
Currently the UI thread and a background
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Romain Guy romain...@google.com wrote:
The trick is simple: avoid any allocation that might trigger a GC.
It's not that simple at all.
In fact, it is *impossible* on Android, or any other mobile OS which
allows background processes.
I've already said this
I've also proposed a solution to this - adding a permission for apps
to request that they run alone, uninterrupted by other processes.
That is, the app can request a permission, demanding that the app can
only be interrupted by an external event, such as phone call, all
other services and
Thanks for the responses guys.
My question was more like how come its smooth in the picture viewer
app despite running multi processes? Its the only 2d app I've found
that does this correctly, but its reassuring to know it DOES work.
Surface views seem good for static surfaces with moving
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 1:47 PM, admin.androidsl...@googlemail.com
admin.androidsl...@googlemail.com wrote:
Thanks for the responses guys.
My question was more like how come its smooth in the picture viewer
app despite running multi processes? Its the only 2d app I've found
that does this
Add my vote for this option/feature: A permission for an app to become
the only app running (except maybe the phone-app and incoming SMS,
etc).
On Mar 26, 7:26 am, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote:
I've also proposed a solution to this - adding a permission for apps
to request that
There are some problems with that approach:
-it's an arms race. You've already identified the need for certain
apps to continue running even when there's an exclusive app running,
which'd have to be protected by a permission. Either that permission
is system-only and we move further away from
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 4:14 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@android.com wrote:
There are some problems with that approach:
-it's an arms race. You've already identified the need for certain
apps to continue running even when there's an exclusive app running,
which'd have to be protected by a
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 7:25 AM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote:
Screw the developer. I'll put myself in the shoes of the user. I have
launched myself a game. I want it to run at full speed.
I could care less that a background service, polling RSS feeds have
just found out that
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@android.com wrote:
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 7:25 AM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote:
Screw the developer. I'll put myself in the shoes of the user. I have
launched myself a game. I want it to run at full speed.
I could care
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@android.com wrote:
I think that we've gone way too far from the original problem. The
original problem as I see it isn't about GCs in other apps, it's about
Of Stoyan Damov
Sent: 26 March 2009 15:40
To: android-developers@googlegroups.com
Subject: [android-developers] Re: Anything on Android that can do smooth
scrolling?
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@android.com
wrote:
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 7:25 AM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote:
Got to say I'd prefer a good user experience to developer orientated
features any day.
Indeed. That's all I ask for! I hope it's not much. This is the *only*
way Android will beat other phones.
What good, if it could run
The problem with your reasoning is that it's far from obvious that
your hypothetical user will clearly understand that launching your
game will prevent their other apps from running (there's plenty of
evidence that users don't understand the consequences of their actions
as well as developers
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@android.com wrote:
The problem with your reasoning is that it's far from obvious that
your hypothetical user will clearly understand that launching your
game will prevent their other apps from running (there's plenty of
evidence that
I've already said this once -- even though your game can be tuned to
the max, nothing prevents *other* apps from triggering GC.
That is, in my game, I *never*, *ever* do any allocation after startup.
However, other background processes do trigger GC, and voila - my game
stutters for a bit
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 6:47 PM, Romain Guy romain...@google.com wrote:
I've already said this once -- even though your game can be tuned to
the max, nothing prevents *other* apps from triggering GC.
That is, in my game, I *never*, *ever* do any allocation after startup.
However, other
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 6:58 AM, Streets Of Boston
flyingdutc...@gmail.comwrote:
Add my vote for this option/feature: A permission for an app to become
the only app running (except maybe the phone-app and incoming SMS,
etc).
No.
We need to do better about scheduling background processes.
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.comwrote:
So, ok, I *admit* other apps can't cause DIRECTLY a GC in my app, but
it doesn't matter to me because other apps can cause the system to
lack memory and perform GC and it would ask my app's process to do GC,
which is
on Android that can do smooth
scrolling?
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 6:58 AM, Streets Of Boston flyingdutc...@gmail.com
wrote:
Add my vote for this option/feature: A permission for an app to become
the only app running (except maybe the phone-app and incoming SMS,
etc).
No.
We need
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote:
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com
wrote:
So, ok, I *admit* other apps can't cause DIRECTLY a GC in my app, but
it doesn't matter to me because other apps can cause the system to
I could understand if you were saying that you can't provide
multi-tasking experience on a single-tasking OS, such as Windows 3.1,
which required cooperative multitasking.
But I find it hard to understand what are the practical and technical
reasons behind your resistance to provide a
On Mar 26, 12:22 pm, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote:
No.
Agreed. A race condition-like situation waiting to happen.
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Android Developers group.
To post to
I see her point, it isn't scalable. What do you do when two apps both
want this, and you want both apps?
No, I agree, this needs addressing but not this way.
On Mar 26, 1:55 pm, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote:
I could understand if you were saying that you can't provide
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Sundog sunns...@gmail.com wrote:
I see her point, it isn't scalable. What do you do when two apps both
want this, and you want both apps?
No, I agree, this needs addressing but not this way.
Michael, it's not about what *apps* want. It's what the *user*
On Mar 26, 2:59 pm, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Sundog sunns...@gmail.com wrote:
Michael, it's not about what *apps* want. It's what the *user* wants.
I am the user, and I want to launch an application, so I run it and It's on
top.
If it
Think of it this way. Imagine the havoc that would ensue if you could
do this in Unix!
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Android Developers group.
To post to this group, send email to
I should have added that this would apply to the phone's *foreground*
application only.
Or at least something that allows the foreground app to get a very
high priority and resource allowance from the operating system to
minimize the influence of non-essential (background) applications.
On Mar
Once again it has NOTHING to do with GC, it's just another app using
the CPU. It could be for any reason, not just GC.
I hope you get it now.
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com
On Mar 26, 3:52 pm, Streets Of Boston flyingdutc...@gmail.com wrote:
I should have added that this would apply to the phone's *foreground*
application only
I knew I shouldn't have compared it to a race situation... bad
analogy!
Here's a better example: Imagine you're running Linux and the
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 11:53 PM, Romain Guy romain...@google.com wrote:
Once again it has NOTHING to do with GC, it's just another app using
the CPU. It could be for any reason, not just GC.
I hope you get it now.
Aaaah, @#$ me. I GET it now!
Thanks Romain, and thanks again for
Have multiple cores :)
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 11:53 PM, Romain Guy romain...@google.com wrote:
Once again it has NOTHING to do with GC, it's just another app using
the CPU. It could be for any reason, not just GC.
LOL!
Why didn't we think of that!
And to be absolutely clear, I shouldn't be blaming Java, this
situation would happen with any multitasking OS. The GC's DO have the
effect of making things unpredictable, though.
On Mar 26, 4:12 pm, Romain Guy romain...@google.com wrote:
Have multiple cores
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 12:12 AM, Romain Guy romain...@google.com wrote:
Have multiple cores :)
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote:
That is, what's the best way to ensure great user experience for
demanding apps, such as games, without pausing all
Speaking of (ahem) C++ (SunDog raised the subject implicitly!), what's
the off-the-record deadline of .so support?
Thanks!
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 12:16 AM, Sundog sunns...@gmail.com wrote:
LOL!
Why didn't we think of that!
And to be absolutely clear, I shouldn't be blaming Java, this
Yep, *exclusively* would not be a good idea. The user still would want
phone-calls to come in and other such tasks.
But wouldn't causing Android to be a bit (a lot) more aggresive in
cleaning up not-so-important processes be something that is possible?
Another (outlandish?) possibility:
A
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Streets Of Boston
flyingdutc...@gmail.com wrote:
Yep, *exclusively* would not be a good idea. The user still would want
phone-calls to come in and other such tasks.
Phone calls per se are not a problem. AFAIK calls are handled on the
2nd core, dedicated
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.comwrote:
So, we're back then to square 1 - how do we make Android *appear* that
it runs an application exclusively.
This is already something that we are investigating, though it isn't yet
scheduled for a release as I said:
Yes, you can think of this feature like the switch in Windows
performance options dialog, processor scheduling:
Adjust for best performance of:
(o) Programs
( ) Background services
In Android it would map to:
(o) Foreground apps
( ) All apps
or something like that (with foreground apps being
The trick is simple: avoid any allocation that might trigger a GC.
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 1:18 PM, admin.androidsl...@googlemail.com
admin.androidsl...@googlemail.com wrote:
Getting a bit disillusioned after spending most of the day trying to
make a smooth scrolling app. I've tried
hi,
have u checked ipingpong 3D on android market .its pais app
check the touch screen event which has got smooth scroll
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 2:32 AM, Romain Guy romain...@google.com wrote:
The trick is simple: avoid any allocation that might trigger a GC.
On Wed, Mar
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