Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @97The version you linked, should be the second unless you found a third unrelated one. Everything I pulled to pick on I pulled from that.He's clearly angry, his anger is justified, but he's trying to argue against science with personal experience, has dismissed the mainstream media because it's not saying what he thinks is true, and is cherry-picking the facts he wants to cherry-pick. Don't get me wrong, the mainstream media is political and sensational--I'm not saying it's not--but he had bad personal experiences and is extrapolating them to everyone everywhere and trying to use them to say the science should be disregarded.If we actually lived in this 18-month lockdown until vaccine but o by the way the models turned out not to be accurate and were sensational to get people react world he'd have points, but people are actively trying to get things open again on a days-to-weeks timeline and even the people he blames for the problems he's pointing out are aware and dreading those problems and trying to get things working again as fast as possible, plus the model he decides to pick on has already proven more than true.At the end of the day I really think this entire thing comes down to this. You either understand exponential curves or you don't. If you do understand exponential curves then a few hundred covid cases somewhere are scary because you intuitively get how the math works and you know that's hundreds of thousands in a few months without restrictions. If you don't, then a few hundred covid cases are nothing because that's only a few thousand in 6 months. And since the U.S. does a completely terrible job with math and science education, more people don't understand this than do and we end up with "But people are starving and suicidal" arguments where the person making the argument isn't properly estimating because they're comparing apples to oranges w.r.t. the curves. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524837/#p524837 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @96, have you watched the second video? Or just the first? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524803/#p524803 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read I have watched the video in it's entirety in order to say that I argue fairly and he gets a lot of basic things wrong because he's too angry.The U.S. is already over 6 deaths. His point about that is wrong: the models are a range, that's the lower end. The media may be reporting them sensationally, but the people producing them are doing responsible science and not throwing bullshit numbers around for the hell of it, and we are already beyond the lower end of that model and still going.No one is proposing that we stay under lockdown until there's a vaccine. No one ever has been. The only point of the lockdown is to get to the point where the hospitals aren't going to be overloaded, and it looks like we are fortunately almost there.The initial point of the lockdowns in China were in fact to try to get rid of Covid forever. That has worked before. Until it left China there was every chance that we would have been able to kill it permanently.Immunocompromised people can take vaccines. Not all of them, but as an immunocompromised person who is specifically told that I had better get a flu shot every year and has heard that from every doctor I've ever had, yeah, we can. If you're immunocompromised to a really severe degree that may not be true, but it is true for some of us.Chloroquine might be effective against Covid, but it has lots and lots of side effects and the studies on it are, as far as I'm aware, inconclusive and contradictory.Going for herd immunity was tried by Sweden. Sweden is now beginning to have the problems that everyone warned would happen if lockdowns weren't done. Also going for herd immunity stresses the hospitals to the breaking point, ergo no hospitals if you do that.Most places with lockdowns (possibly all of them) still allow you to go out in the sun. You can go for a walk, you can often still go to the park. You have to observe social distancing but it's not like you're literally locked in your house like a jail cell.How long you are immune from covid is being questioned currently. If you get it once, you might be able to get it again. We don't know if you're immune for months, years, or forever. So "yeah I got covid, I'm all good now" is not necessarily accurate and we need to wait on more conclusive data.The 1918 Spanish flu was so deadly because we didn't have mechanisms to stop it spreading, the first version went through everyone, then it mutated because of field hospitals in World War I. The worst case scenario of everyone gets Covid and that gives it lots of chances to mutate and then we have something deadlier, though not much talked about, has literally already happened. The "no lockdowns" approach to this has a not insignificant chance that we end up with something worse than what's on our hands now. In fact that's how coronaviruses work in the first place--we get them because a harmless form mutated into something we can catch.I get why he's angry believe it or not. I myself have weird mental health issues to some extent at this point. It sucks. But he should start by getting basic facts right. Perhaps the video is old at this point. Also, don't get angry about the lockdown. Get angry about the government not doing more when they could be and should have been. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524801/#p524801 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read The first link is an angry rant, of sorts; the second link is a much more polite delivery of the first. That second video is https://youtu.be/PGBOP5ZjNco URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524790/#p524790 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @93 those two links seem to be broken. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524740/#p524740 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read I really think people should watch these 2 videos talking about Covid and the lockdown. If you choose not to or you stop listening to the guy before he even finishes, you're just proving his point as well as my own. He put a lot of time into these videos, and he made some pretty damn good points. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524678/#p524678 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read Huh, experts aren't spreading doom and gloom for the sake of doom and gloom. Experts are suggesting that there's doom and gloom if we collectively screw up as a nation on this. Their point is to try to limit the spread of the virus so it can go away, reduce strain on hospitals, and maybe suggest ways to ease the burden on Americans while Kovid sadly stares at the empty roads as it withers away. The alternative is experts determining the number of deaths inbound from everyone being out and how hospitals can best determine on who take in and who to let die, also known as the Italy way of things. The fact we already have a real world example of a country reaching the worst possible case "during" a quarantine should already explain why we need to take things seriously. The United State's health care system cannot support a concurrent caseload heading over a million if this gets out of hand. And people need hospitals for way mor than just Kovid 19. The last thing we need is to reach a situation where hospitals are trying to determine what people to turn away and let die. Also yes, the fact we reached lockdown mode is a bit of a condemnation of the current president, who is given special powers to invoke action without Congress' approval in this situation. He literally had unlimited power and, has, not really done anything with it. He put up a travel ban, but so what? Other countries have done that, and done much more. He's been glacially slow to use his ability to direct production to expand the number of masks and other health necessities to better guard his citizens. Congress literally has no input, it's all Trump's responsibility. And as expected, when he has no one to hide behind to both handle the situation and blame when things go wrong, he does what is expected considering his many past bankruptcy failures when taking the lead on business projects. That being awful. In fact, despite a lot of powers being laid at his feet, he's mostly focusing on pointing his finger at governors, and governmental agencies for failing to stop the deaths, despite lacking his vastly expanded authority. ...There's a reason why the board of directors literally gave Trump an executive position with little or no power outside of branding in his own company at one point. When he's responsible for decision making, things fail, hard. Now, we went from business decisions to health decisions of a country, and he's equally as bad. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524446/#p524446 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read Huh, experts aren't spreading doom and gloom for the sake of doom and gloom. Experts are suggesting that there's doom and gloom if we collectively screw up as a nation on this. Their point is to try to limit the spread of the virus so it can go away, reduce strain on hospitals, and maybe suggest ways to ease the burden on Americans while Kovid sadly stares at the empty roads as it withers away. The alternative is experts determining the number of deaths inbound from everyone being out and how hospitals can best determine on who take in and who to let die, also known as the Italy way of things. The fact we already have a real world example of a country reaching the worst possible case "during" a quarantine should already explain why we need to take things seriously. The United State's health care system cannot support a concurrent caseload heading over a million if this gets out of hand. And people need hospitals for way mor than just Kovid 19. The last thing we need is to reach a situation where hospitals are trying to determine what people to turn away and let die. Also yes, the fact we reached lockdown mode is a bit of a condemnation of the current president, who is given special powers to invoke action without Congress' approval in this situation. He literally had unlimited power and, has, not really done anything with it. He put up a travel ban, but so what? Other countries have done that, and done much more. He's been glacially slow to use his ability to direct production to expand the number of masks and other health necessities to better guard his citizens. Congress literally has no input, it's all Trump's responsibility. And as expected, when he has no one to hide behind to both handle the situation and blame when things go wrong, he does what is expected considering his many past bankrupsy failures when taking the lead on business projects. That being awful. In fact, despite a lot of powers being laid at his feet, he's mostly focusing on pointing his finger at governors, and governmental agencies for failing to stop the deaths, despite lacking his vastly expanded authority. ...There's a reason why the board of directors literally gave Trump an executive position with little or no power outside of branding in his own company at one point. When he's responsible for decision making, things fail, hard. Now, we went from business decisions to health decisions of a country, and he's equally as bad. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524446/#p524446 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @89I know what you're talking about. I forget what it's called, but it's not just a fee. You also have to fly a certain amount before you qualify. I think the idea is that if you have a good history with flying, they're willing to assume you'll continue doing so.@90They had just introduced those air puff machines that only one person can fit inside of at once, it was mandatory for everyone, and my brother was still in early elementary school. I was nervous myself because I was also young then, plus had never seen one of those things before, but telling a kid in first or second grade "sorry but you have to leave mommy and go through the loud scary machine with the clueless airport people"well that was the general theme of that day. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524427/#p524427 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @88 and @89: interesting! I guess things are finally changing once people caught on. Most of the non-Muslims I know though didn't know about the swabbing and were shocked when I told them it's happened to me 100% of the time over the last three years. It's a small sample size and I do acknowledge that, but I'm hard-pressed to believe in coincidences on this one given the propaganda to keep support for the war effort overseas strong here in the US.@88: LOL, that must have been a circus. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524336/#p524336 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read Can confirm. I'm a Caucasian dude who's also been hand-swabbed several times. They're courteous about it, but pretty thorough. I thought it funny when I heard you could pay a fee and essentially get passed over for "random" checks like that, or at the least, have it much less likely. I guess this is because this fee gets them to process an extra-thorough background check. You know, the sort of thing that should be standard and isn't for some reason? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524322/#p524322 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @87Interesting; I'm white, and the last 6 or 7 times I've traveled they've done the hand swabbing thing to me as well, as well as everyone else in the line. I take your points and agree with them (indeed I have had two Asian friends with similar concerns at one point or another) but it surprises me that people don't know this is a thing now because I thought it was standard everywhere.If you want extra airport fun, though, get routed through Washington DC in 2002 or so with your blind brother, you're both kids, and the only adult is mom. That was quite the experience. No one involved knew what to do about the two blind kids in the slightest because mom can't help us through, o no.But the worst part about the airport thing is that people have smuggled fake bombs and other stuff through anyway to test security and TSA doesn't actually stop it. So in exchange for the hell on earth that is airline security in the U.S., we get basically nothing. Yay! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524295/#p524295 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read Camlorn wrote:so meh. I'll just be disappointed that there's yet another person who can think positive things about someone who calls an entire nationality rapists and criminals to win an election, I guess.In addition to calling law-abiding, tax-paying Muslim American citizens terrorists... Yeah, we should really trust and believe Trump here (sarcasm.) When he slams a community I belong to and calls many of the countries we originated from "shitholes," we see where his priorities are. I'm disgusted to be paying this man's salary.The amount of non-Muslims who don't know about hand-swabbing for explosive residue at airports astounds me. Yup, totally random. Sure.They've even started swabbing my shoes now... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524282/#p524282 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read Camlorn wrote:so meh. I'll just be disappointed that there's yet another person who can think positive things about someone who calls an entire nationality rapists and criminals to win an election, I guess.In addition to calling law-abiding, tax-paying Muslim American citizens terrorists... Yeah, we should really trust and believe Trump here (sarcasm.) When he slams a community I belong to and calls many of the countries we originated from "shitholes," we see where his priorities are. I'm disgusted to be paying this man's salary.The amount of non-Muslims who don't know about hand-swabbing for explosive residue at airports astounds me. Yup, totally random. Sure. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524282/#p524282 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read Camlorn wrote:so meh. I'll just be disappointed that there's yet another person who can think positive things about someone who calls an entire nationality rapists and criminals to win an election, I guess.In addition to calling law-abiding, tax-paying Muslim American citizens terrorists... Yeah, we should really trust and believe Trump here (sarcasm.) When he slams a community I belong to and calls many of the countries we originated from "shitholes," we see where his priorities are. I'm disgusted to be paying this man's salary. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524282/#p524282 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read my personal opinion on this one, and don't get mad at me, my health first, then, money second. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524253/#p524253 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read Interpret it how you like, but I never once claimed to be anything, especially an expert. It's the experts that keep putting forth predictions of gloom and doom here, and that's not what I am promoting at all. Yes, I am going to go on with my life despite this pandemic because the only other alternative is just to sit and do absolutely nothing. Were it possible, I'd go back to work right now, but until we are told to think it's okay to do so I'll just keep waiting on the next stimulus check, assuming that congress doesn't screw it up. Regardless, we're all in agreement that it will be good to get back to something resembling normal again. The best thing I can recommend is just go about this in the best way you can, and don't let others do your thinking for you. You all possess common sense, so you know how to properly take care of yourselves in a time such as this. As for the post that started this whole discussion, there were some very good points there that should be taken into consideration as well, and I thank the one who started this topic for having shared that.Now, though this is a bit off-topic, I did want to drop in a quick note here. I know many of you were asking for a Manamon 2 guide of some kind. It will take some considerable time, but I am going to attempt to try and put one together on my next play-through. If all goes well, I'll let you know and will see to it that I get it posted for you folks who might be interested. I don't know if it will measure up to jade's walkthrough of the first game in the series, but I'm certainly willing to give it try. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524218/#p524218 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @82Please, please become informed. Trump literally suggested that maybe we can treat Covid with bleach on live TV. Just perhaps that's a sign that when a lot of us say that he didn't take this seriously maybe you should listen, because the kind of person who can suggest maybe we should try treating it with bleach on live TV is the kind of person who wouldn't take it seriously. There was a hell of a lot that Trump could have personally done this time, things like making sure we had face masks, and he did none of it. Congress couldn't have stopped him, in fact congress would have applauded him, and he still did none of it. It's not like you can say that there was no law put in front of him: he has the power to mobilize the army, to order factories to produce the things we need in an emergency, etc. all without involving congress. And. Nothing. In fact if you watch the news you can even see the week or so where he went from downplaying it to realizing that actually this is a problem and he should have been preparing instead.So yes, the lockdowns are his fault. So is the stock market crash. And this time it's actually *his* fault. Personally his fault.But honestly you lose a lot of points in my eyes, and probably in the eyes of many others, if you are blind and supporting Trump. That's seriously voting directly against your best interest in a myriad of demonstrable ways. I'd argue with you, but you don't seem to be arguing in good faith, so meh. I'll just be disappointed that there's yet another person who can think positive things about someone who calls an entire nationality rapists and criminals to win an election, I guess. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524194/#p524194 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read We can definitely agree that this mess will be better when it's over and done with. That kind of stands to reason.But Trump's travel restrictions, while not a terrible idea, weren't enough, and he ignored other restrictions which would've done far more. Interesting fact: the first American to die of Covid-19 reputedly had never been to China.Now, I'm gonna cut through the bullshit and backhanded self-defense for a second, and say something you're not going to like, Accman.You say "I refuse to live in fear".Most of us hear, "I refuse to be limited anymore."You say "It's time we reopened things".We hear, "The experts don't matter. The economy needs to survive more than people do."You say, "It's basically like the flu, and we can handle that fine."We hear, "I'm a self-proclaimed expert whose personal liberty matters more than thousands of deaths."To put it really, really baldly, bro, what you're basically saying comes out like this: "I know this thing can kill people, but it's really not that dangerous. I'm not an expert, but I know what I know. And I'm tired of living in lockdown so I think I'm going to go become a new disease vector. If other people die, that'll kinda suck, but at least I'll be a free American, damn it." URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524190/#p524190 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read I've been following all the briefings since they started and have seen where some reporters really tried to make it look like Trump dropped the ball. Actually, he didn't because, if you remember, it was quite early on when he began putting travel restrictions in place. As a result of action like that we have between 45,000 and 50,000 dead. If he hadn't done what he did when he did it, then I believe he is right to say that we could have been facing many, many more deaths. No death is good, but I'd rather the smaller number then what we might have had if he'd delayed further with those restrictions on travel to, and from, the United States. Now, I know some of you do not support our president, and I respect that as it is your right and you have the freedom to your opinion. Just to be clear, I am not looking for a drawn out debate over that issue. I've been there before on another forum, and it got really nasty. Let's not do that here if at all possible. I think we can all agree on the fact that it'll be great once this mess is over and done with. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524168/#p524168 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @accmanEveryone knows that the deaths don't add up. Trump ignored it for weeks, then the FDA decided to make an American-specific test that was broken for stupid reasons. We aren't testing everyone who needs to be tested because Trump specifically dropped the ball and tried to ignore this, then dropped the ball and didn't start using the Defense Production Act. Every part of this saga has been in mainstream media and none of it is being disputed by anyone anywhere, and the reason we are even doing country-wide lockdowns right now is because of this. We could have had the testing capacity we needed in February or early March if Trump hadn't been ignoring things, and we could have had the testing capacity by April 1 if the FDA hadn't been fucking up because America-specific testing kits and stupid legal bureaucracy. None of that is really disputed by anyone either, even in the mainstream media, and all of it was openly reported in the mainstream media as well.We wouldn't have house arrest style citations if people were actually obeying lockdowns consistently. People are getting questioned because of people such as yourself with a live-my-life attitude. It's yet another case of why we can't have nice things. Some of us ruin it for all of us by going out for non-essential reasons, then they have to question everyone because this is too important to fuck around with.I feel like you're looking to find a conspiracy theory or something here. There isn't one and all the fuck-ups are entirely public and easy to find. The ideal world was no lockdown and we do targeted quarantines, and the slightly less ideal world is we entirely shut down a few cities and close the borders until it blows over. But because of the above Covid is out of the bottle and it's too late to put it back in, so now we have to wait for systems that take a long time to ramp up or for there to be some sort of miracle treatment that comes out of left field. But there's nothing more to it than that, and we just have to wait this out now. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524149/#p524149 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read note that that 2000 dollars a month bill is just a proposal now. That would undoubtadily be a much better solution than the current check. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524102/#p524102 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read No problem! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524092/#p524092 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read Very interesting, but I think you're probably right given how congress tend to be nowadays. If they saw fit to do it, then I wouldn't complain as there would go the student loan, finally. Thanks for providing that link. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524090/#p524090 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read There is talk about "a certain group of people) getting $2000 a month for the next 6 months:https://www.khou.com/article/news/healt … 41a7b8a80f, though just like with most things here in the USA, it may not happen. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524087/#p524087 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read 75, that mentality is dangerous. We should compare apples to apples here, and compare the payouts of the other developed nations to their citizens. It is frankly really shameful that congress only saw people fit to receive 1200 dollars, where many countries instituted monthly payouts. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524083/#p524083 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read I'll agree, we could have been given more, and we should have been given more. However, what we got was better than getting nothing, and I am very thankful for it. It might not go far, but it does help. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524073/#p524073 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read 73, no covid is not an inevitable fact of life. The only reason there are so many deaths, is that a political choice was made by those in power to downplay and ignore this problem and hope it went away.You say stimulus checks and money doesn't grow on trees. Well, money may not grow on trees, but the government could've done much much bbetter, only when talk comes to giving people money do people start talking about the cost. People got a measly 1200 dollars, but congress had no problem giving up to 5.5 trillion in interest free lones to corperations. What people got wasn't even crumbs of that package. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524070/#p524070 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read I understand the purpose of the lock-down and the stay at home orders. I also understand that people are beginning to have trouble paying their bills and keeping their businesses open because of the financial burden these mandates are causing. In my state, we have heard of instances where people have been sited by police for merely going out for a drive like the woman in the following article.https://triblive.com/news/pennsylvania/ … amid-stay-This woman was out for a drive on her own, clearly not in a position where she would have infected anyone, and this is what she got for it. This is why I refer to these regulations as house arrest. It's crazy, and we don't need overzealous authority figures defining for us what constitutes essential and nonessential reasons for being out of the house for a short time. I've heard that the lady is planning to fight this citation and I hope she wins that one.I also was not contradicting myself when I mentioned the exaggerated numbers of deaths due to this virus. The head Coroner had stated that there were several deaths blamed on the virus that had not been officially reported, and our governor was called out on that. There's just a great deal about all of this that does not add up, and I, as do many other Americans and people throughout the world, want honest answers.As I have stated, I totally sympathize with those of you who have lost loved ones or friends. That's a horrible thing for anyone to have to endure, and I hate it. However, virus or no virus, we're going to have to get things moving here again soon. Stimulus checks are not going to keep coming as there just isn't that kind of money growing on a tree somewhere. I know that this may mean the possibility of more people getting sick because of this, and that concern is so noted. Illness is a fact of life, and we're all going to deal with it, or have dealt with it to some degree. I, for one, have had enough of all of it, and will not continue to live my life in fear of getting infected or accidentally infecting someone else. That would be like not wanting to go to a public place for fear that you might bump into, or step on, someone. It happens, and there's only so much one can do to prevent it. I only wonder, if this continues or if another similar situation comes about, what rights are we going to be ready and willing to sacrifice next time. It's something to consider. In the meantime, I hope all of you remain well. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524065/#p524065 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @69You seem to be contradicting yourself. Are the deaths supposedly lower or supposedly higher? I don't understand how a coroner would need to be explaining anything at all if the deaths were lower, since coroners don't go do autopsies on people who are alive. And if the deaths are higher, that supports the keep things closed side, not yours.@71I think the plan at the moment is to just get us to a point where the hospitals aren't being overwhelmed. I've seen a lot of people talk about i.e. cyclical lockdowns. We don't need a vaccine as such but currently there are zero treatments, you get it and either you die or you don't. Sure you might be on a ventilator and that helps but the best treatment does permanently bad things to your lungs and we need hundreds of times more machines for it than we have sooo...As the lockdowns proceed people recover, and the number of people you transmit it to on average goes lower as well. All the reputable stuff I've seen is basically that we're trying to get the testing infrastructure for contact tracing in place, then we're going to try to open up slowly and see how bad it's getting. The heavy-handed measures are because we couldn't do targeted quarantines where if you get Covid you and all your friends go into isolation for 2 weeks instead of the whole city, but hopefully that's going to be in place soon which will also give us a lot of options. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524025/#p524025 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read My only comment is that for the people who say we shouldn't reopen until a vaccine is developed and available, we'd better hope this isn't another case similar to Sars or MERS... because as far as I know, we actually don't have a vaccine for either of those yet, technically. So if we wait for a vaccine to be ready, and if one is not found, we're in trouble if that is the condition governments hold to lift physical distancing mesures. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524002/#p524002 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read Righto, here's my take on this.Re: outrage and anger. I mostly agree, but we shouldn't be telling forum users to go fuck themselves. That's personal attack territory. Tear their arguments apart. Get angry doing it if you want to. But please try not to attack them.Accman: Camlorn said it best when he said that these measures aren't in place to protect you, that you shouldn't uphold them to protect you. If it was just about me, if I knew I might get sick but knew for a fact that I couldn't hurt anyone else, I might well take more risks, and others might do the same. But I worry that I might make someone else sick, or kill them. We've got at least one user who's had family die because of this. If that doesn't make it personal, I don't know what does. Reopening things will happen, but as for when it should happen, the answer isn't "when we get tired of living in fear". That's never, ever a good enough answer. If it is for you, then you really aren't considering averything from every angle, and shouldn't falsely represent yourself as possessing a balanced perspective, because you don't.Fun fact: I'm a Canadian, and I'd be appalled at the idea of putting my country first. We're all human beings. To imply that I care more about Canadians in a situation like this implies that on some level I view Canadians as better than people in other countries. If we're at war with another country, then yeah, okay, maybe I make choices there. But until such time that this happens, we're all human beings who are experiencing this pandemic together. Data from one country can impact the reactions of others. We aren't in our own little bubbles here, and don't have to be. Countries have been trying to help each other out where they can, sharing research and stats and goodness knows what else. In Covid-19, we're all equals. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523999/#p523999 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read Those numbers I am talking about were reported by the head coroner of Pennsylvania. These deaths, and there were several hundreds were never reported to the Pennsylvania Coroners' Association, and he, at first, couldn't figure out what was going on. So, no I am not making any of this up. And, even if I did provide evidence, it still wouldn't be good enough. I had a similar experience a few years back on a forum where no matter how much factual evidence I provided it wasn't taken seriously. So, the best I can tell you is to do what I did and go search it out. These, of course, are facts that you won't get from NBC, CNN, and so on. As I said, I've been following this thing since the beginning, and have been doing so from every possible angle. I encourage everyone to please do your own research, and don't just take the media's narrative as the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Yes, it means you'll have to take the time and do that, but if you're better informed as a result that can only be a good thing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523965/#p523965 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read I believe the virus is as bad as people are claiming. I actually had a cousin that didn't take the initial warnings while In New York seriously. They spent a lot of their time outside and ignoring the manditory lockdown orders. They wanted to live their lives with their friends, who they were separated from and gathered in a large group. Now, that cousin and about 90% of his initial family have been cremated. And he was the only one to head out and got yelled at by his family for doing that. And he took out his parents, one grandparent and one of his siblings for living his life. that's not counting who else not in our family he had contact with. We also had another incident involving a wedding where a ton of people got violently ill. We lost two people from that event as well. Right now, it seems a nearby family has their second floor serving as a makeshift resting area as a bunch of people contracted kovid 19. What all of these incidents have in common? All it takes is one or two people to roam about infected to start the 1d50 rolls all around, and one's are something that can come up. And those are the lucky ones not rolling a 1d5 for critical existance failures. When you increase the number of people that can get exposed to Kovid 19, you increase the unfortunate number of people gets wiped out. And as someone mentioned, this causes problems for hospitals getting swamped, and being unable to take in other medical cases lethal to existance, illness prevention and other necessary services. meh, just like a good number of people in my family, people won't learn that this should be taken seriously until the virus reaches a level its indirectly affecting people who aren't sick of the virus. When hospitals get full, friends no longer being around, and funeral invites litter one's inbox. When waits to get into a hospital can extend to weeks, and when one finally gets sick and begin to worry that they could be the next add-on to the statistical data of Kovid 19 deaths. When it's far too late to do much other than damage control, then we'll take it seriously. Or not, it starting to seems just like many things in this country, epedemic preventio has became a political struggle with people doggedly taking a side to the very end. Also, it's possible to have viral prevention and live one's life properly. Unfortunately, we missed the mark on starting the preventative measures early enough to severely batter back the spread. Other nations who took up arms early have managed to get to a level where they can return to work and socialize. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523951/#p523951 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read guys, why don't you just calm down a little bit URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523913/#p523913 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @65If you want to claim numbers are exaggerated, please provide evidence. Otherwise this is baseless. For one thing, China was going out of their way to claim totals were lower than they were. And the U.S. doesn't even have enough tests to test everyone who's sick from it, let alone everyone who might have it.Also learn about exponential curves, please. We're only at a few million people but this doubles every month and that's while things are under lockdowns.I do actually understand your frustration, but we aren't doing lockdowns because people are afraid. We're doing lockdowns because we literally want to be able to have functional hospitals and if we don't do lockdowns then we won't have functional hospitals. Italy has had to make tough choices in that regard, about who does and doesn't get hospital beds, and your attitude is what will cause the U.S. to have to start making those decisions as well should enough people share it. Covid doesn't just kill/harm people with Covid, it kills/harms anyone else who might need a hospital at the same time as Covid is going on because there isn't enough hospital to go around.And if we did reopen and everyone such as yourself lived their lives, by the time it is proven to your satisfaction that it is as bad as people claim, by the time you're going "holy shit, I guess everyone was right about those lockdowns" and you regret the live-my-life attitude, it will be too late because you can't treat it in any way and it got out of control and now millions to tens of millions are dead in just the U.S. depending on how bad it proves to be.And that's before we even discuss that coronaviruses like to mutate and that the more people it's in the more likely that is to happen, or that we're starting to get data back on the treatment options that are currently in clinical trial and it looks like none of them do much of anything, or that we're starting to link Covid to non-Covid related death like strokes and blood clotting for reasons we don't understand.Frankly this isn't about your fear. We don't participate in the lockdowns for ourselves. We participate in the lockdowns to protect those who are vulnerable, and to prevent the deaths of others. You always have the right to take whatever risks you want, but you do not have the right to put others at risk. Just living your life puts others at risk, for example if you bring it into your apartment building and get it on the elevator panel. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523866/#p523866 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read I am aware of the cases here in the US. I've been following this thing from the beginning, and things regarding these numbers are not adding up. First of all, there are countries that were hit far worse than the United States. Second, as I previously said, we have instances here, and I am sure it is happening elsewhere, in which numbers of the dead and the ill are being exaggerated. I won't dispute that there are those who have died because of this thing, but I am not willing to put my life on hold because people died of a sickness. I am sorry for them, and those that lost loved ones. However, life can't come to a dead stop just because of that. This is all I am saying. For those that want to live under fear, then I won't stop you. However, don't expect me to join in on it because time is a currency that you can't earn back, and I intend to make the most of what time I have. That having been said, I do hope that all of you are well. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523860/#p523860 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @59yes, but the thing is. There's no alternative for those of us targeted by Trump. Civil discussion has been tried for well over 4 years by the Democrats. It lost them the senate, the house, a presidency, and a supreme court seat. The only reason ground has even been held at all, the only reason things like the ACA are even still around, is that people stopped civil discussion and started protests and things like that.If you want to understand Bernie Sanders, what you have to understand is that even the Democrats aren't representing people like me now. The Democrat strategy is let's compromise and hold out an olive branch. The Republican strategy is we see a way to win forever, or at least for a really long time, so let's crush our enemies. Compromise, civil discussion, all of that really only works in a world where the strategy of both sides is compromise and solving problems. In a world where one side has an ideology, isn't willing to look at evidence or to change their mind, and is out for blood, that won't work anymore.I'm not surprised that Sanders lost the nomination, and I'm even kind of glad. I think Biden has the best chance of beating Trump, because Sanders is scary to a large section of democrats and independent voters, and at this point all I care about is that Trump doesn't get a second term. But the thing is that Sanders was the only one saying he'd actually fight for something. Everyone else, even Warren really, would have tried to continue the current strategy, and the current platform is basically return to normalcy. That'll get a Democrat to the presidency probably, especially with Trump seriously fucking up Covid.But all it's really worth is that now the government is representing African American suburban dad with an extra dose of political correctness, as opposed to white suburban dad who doesn't like immigrants stealing our jobs. It won't actually get anything the Democrats like to promise: the Republicans were too unopposed for too long, and have managed to get control of a lot of things that are lifetime appointments. Either the Republicans have to suddenly realize that playing fair actually matters, or the Democrats have to get a Trump. Otherwise this country is going to stay on the slow train to right wing religious theocracy. I don't believe we'll actually become one because that sort of move makes Democrat Trump more and more likely, but we are slowly moving in that direction, and it is concerning.Sanders probably won't run again if I had to guess, but I honestly think there's going to be a Sanders equivalent in 2024 or 2028. And I do think that by then things will be broken enough, and young people will be grown up enough, that the Sanders equivalent will win then.But my main point is this. Whether you like it or not, we are at a point where loud screaming is the only strategy because everything else is being a pushover to people who don't really care about anything but ideology. Trump is very close to a cult, not in a human sacrifice way but in a social dynamics way. You don't win against cults by arguing politely. You win by breaking their ranks or taking down the head by any means necessary or preferably both. All the major wins against the Republicans in the current administration have only happened because of something like that.And to anyone else who might be reading this who's blind and supporting Trump, I'm just old enough to remember the days when my parents were afraid that they'd not be able to get us on their healthcare plan because my brother and I were both blind, and back then insurance companies were allowed to turn you away. So though I can't stop you, or force you to see my points, do consider that in the end Trump and the GOP are trying to roll things back to the 90s when blind people had trouble getting access to doctors if the insurance companies decided not to like you. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523824/#p523824 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read 62, if you are so concerned of the state of things in the US, then surely opening prematurely, and the huge number of cases, vastly more than anywhere in the world should also concern you? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523725/#p523725 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read I've read some of the posts in response to the one I wrote the other day, that having been post 25. All I can say is, to those of you who attacked me, how very typical and how very predictable. All I tried to do was to encourage people to not live in fear, and that was what you came back with. Well, that's your right, and I would never stop you from voicing your opinion. However, for future reference, if you're going to be that aggressive then I'd strongly suggest a bit of self-control, and perhaps something to back up your position. Someone insinuated that I didn't seem to care what happened in other countries, and that's a flat-out lie. I care very much what happens in the rest of the nations of the world, but I am American and thus put my home nation first as any patriot would. I do hope that those of you in other countries are doing well as I know this is not easy. Things are starting to open up here in the states a bit, but it will be interesting to see how long these regulations stay in place regarding social distancing. I know here in Pennsylvania, things like golf courses and camp grounds are supposed to open back up at the end of the week from what I've heard. Have any of you seen anything similar beginning to happen or heard about anything like that where ever you're from? If so, it would be great to hear something positive like that and I don't think I'm the only one who would think that. Here's to hoping things will pick up and get better soon, regardless of what country we're talking about. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523715/#p523715 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read 57, thanks for clerifieing about the term overcoming. Makes alot more sense now. I assumed mistakenly you were using NFB terminology of overcoming, in essence saying my blindness and all the issues and problems it has don't exist anymore. Though I must add, it doesn't all come down to saying "I am employed and will live alone". I still felt the huge disadvantage of blindness when applying for employment, despite having a masters degree from a very prestigious institution, I still got turned down several times when applying for positions only recent graduates etc could apply to so. as for trump, lets add more to those on your list shall we?He publically and openly called several countries "shitholes" in a white house press briefing, which is encredibly racist to say the least. Lets fuck up net neutrality, so that companies can charge whatever the fuck they want for certain content, and can introduce fast lanes if they feel like it. Oh, did I mention trump's putting people at danger by promoting cloroquin? People actually died from taking fish medicine containing cloroquin. And after his idiotic comments about injecting people with disinfectant, several people actually tried that, and several states saw a spike in emergency visits for snorting, or injecting or swallowing of detergents or cleaning chemicals. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523701/#p523701 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @40. heres the thing. @25 doesn't care about people around him. He is basically saying, "I want to go to work now. lets reopen the country! Too bad that people are dying from this unknown disease. I just want to work now!" Don't get me wrong, I want to go out and eat and hangout with my friends again. but you know why I'm not complaining? because I have empathy. I feel for those people who have suffered and has lost someone from this covid19. I feel for the health workers who are under paid and over worked and who don't even have the proper protection. What I don't have sympathy for? is your president and people who expresses no sympathy and want to just line their pockets. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523649/#p523649 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @57And that's the thing. From what you explained, I understand your side of how you feel about the current situation within the presidency. And the fact is, you laid the facts out, clean and simply. I just wish everyone else did that.Same goes for Trump. He does the same things that he accuses the left of doing. It's all a matter of perception, in the grand scheme of things. People are ignorant. That's a fact. I'd like to say that I'm not ignorant, but that could very well not be true. And that's the thing. Even if we may not agree about the same things, we can still have a civil discussion. I just wish that people remembered that more often. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523644/#p523644 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @40, no, sorry, but posts like 26 and 28 hit the nail on the head here. You don't play nice with people who don't understand the seriousness of the current situation. I very easily could have lost one of the most important people in my life a few weeks ago. Forgive me, and others, for feeling raw about the brutal reality of it all. I am fortunate that nothing worse happened, because, if it had, and I'd seen this topic, I'd have zero fucks to give about ripping anyone to shreds who voiced such opinions as the idiot who wrote that Facebook post. To be fair, though, had anything truly awful happened, I would have been in no condition to look at stuff like this forum anyway. I'm barely containing my rage as it is. So, I'm going to end this post here, remind myself why it was best that I take a break from this site, and try to regroup. This place, in addition to several other things in my life, are no good for my mental health at this time. That's about the only good thing that came of my current situation, besides the obvious, of course. The fact that I realized how much I was taking people for granted, and how much I was putting them through by constantly engaging in negative behavior patterns for God only knows what reason. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523630/#p523630 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @54Overcoming your blindness is, like, something to the effect of "I can live alone and will have a job". I don't use it in the delightfully unhelpful NFB way where overcoming your blindness is now you're a surgeon fighter pilot superhero. I exaggerate but I'm sure you know what I mean. Just, being employed or even employable, and able to live alone, is so far beyond what most blind people will ever manage. So it's overcoming, to some extent. If you can get that far you've done as well as most sighted people even.@55So I will put this how I did to my dad, when he didn't understand why some of us hate Trump and he couldn't understand why I was really mad when he voted for Trump, because he did get it after. The republicans kind of want me to just go away and not exist. Observe:I'm blind and with other health issues. Trumpism republicans: let's get rid of the ACA, which protects preexisting conditions and makes it possible for me to have a chance in hell of having healthcare (yes, they are still trying; there's an ongoing lawsuit that will get in front of the supreme court sometime this year, last I saw the status). Trumpism republicans: Let's cut social security. Trumpism republicans: who really likes the ADA?I'm gay. I have lots of gay and trans friends. Trumpism republicans: gay marriage was a mistake, let's roll that back if we can. Any sort of protection is a mistake, of course you can discriminate on religious grounds. Never mind that some places mean that without those protections the only doctor in town might refuse to see you, if they have their way we'll just roll it all back because religious freedom.I'm young. Trumpism republicans: climate change is a hoax and we will ban even talking about it (Florida did actually try). most reputable scientists agree that it's really bad and that if nothing is done there will be mass famine among other things by the time I'm 50. Trumpism republicans: let's protect coal and oil, carbon taxes hahaha no.But at least I'm white. If I were Mexican, I'd have gotten to enjoy being literally called a rapist by our president on the campaign trail.It's very, very easy to say "well the right has points too" until it's suddenly very, very personal. It doesn't matter how you slice it. Trump got to the white house by being loudly, publicly, and proudly hateful toward anyone who isn't a white suburban dad. If the republicans wanted to keep any sort of credibility with me, they needed to tell Trump no, but they haven't yet done that on much of anything, not even vote-by-mail voting (see also: republicans force Wisconsin to hold in person election during Covid and don't allow extension even though they couldn't get all the vote by mail ballots that were requested out). source, if you want one.I'm relatively tame as these things go. But what are all the minorities being targeted supposed to do in your world of less insults, sit back and take it? it's one thing when it's a disagreement about something where both sides want the same thing, but a president who can call people rapists because of their nationality, that's a different world. Frankly the republicans used the stupid e-mail server to discredit Hillary, but now that we've got a president who suggests whether we can use bleach as a medication on live TV and who probably colluded with Russia, not a peep from that side of the table. The Democrats have actually been taking it and avoiding the sort of escalation you don't want to see as far as congress goes for a very long time now, and that lost a supreme court seat and is just continuing to lose ground the longer this goes on (democrats: let's not change the rules for nominations, that would be unfair. Republicans: let's change the rules for nominations, the democrats aren't playing nice. Just to name one really blatant example).This politics thing where we all get along and government gets done only works if one side doesn't get angry and smash the board, and sorry, but one side very definitely got angry and smashed the board here. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523619/#p523619 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read It's a misconception to say that money taken from the rich to the government takes away from donations to charities that do good. What the rich think the world needs, and what the average person thinks they need are two vastly different perceptions. However, I cannot fault anyone in that position to giving to a cause they feel needs strong support, and surely these charities appreciate the assistance. As well, non-profits who reach out to foundations for grants enjoy the support these foundations give and develop strong relationships that have done a lot of good. However, should it really be the decision of one small collective of people or board to decide what issue gets funded and how society is shaped? People complain that they're afraid of government fully taking over their lives, but freely allow the upper class to shape their existence as they please and do what they want with their existences, views and beliefs. Reach out to these rich families to throw scraps of their wealth to one's direction if it fits their views of the world, and realize how many do not. ...Awkward that I say this as I used to do grant writing for non-profit clients, but it's a perspective one develops when in the field. At the moment, we just need to navigate the current system to get projects funded until things change, and work is still done to improve things, but far slower than if the number of grants from government were greater than from foundations. As well, a good portion of money doesn't go to the type of charities you think. There are charities in cities that focus on arts development and community development. As well as donations to schools. The part I omitted here are that these development projects are in the same rich cities and communities these individuals live in. So an endowment of hundreds of thousands of dollars going to a prestigious university, the construction of a new museum in the elite quarter of a city, or buying a new set of laptops for an expensive high school who still has last year's models functioning. Essentially the rich giving to the rich, and wealth being retained in the limited upper brackets of society. but again, it's government that's the dangerous force wanting to control our lives and turn us into drones while keeping all our monies. It's not like the United States hasn't had a history of the 1% attempting to usurp the Federal government, install a puppet president and make it impossible for anyone else to reach the American dream as an autocracy is formed. And that a fatal flu of their chosen president stopped their plans and launched the largest anti-trust suit to shatter their stranglehold on various industries.., allowing for small businesses to break into these fields and help shape the country away from the singular views of a few wealthy business owners ...The late 1800's and early 1900's were a blast now that I think of it. In the sense of observing how things worked and failed. And then depressing when you realize people are wanting to revert back to such a time government and regulation wise. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523584/#p523584 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read Honestly it just disappoints me to see the insults thrown from both sides of the political line. I understand that you don't agree with certain things (like what Trump says/does, or the left's response to it), but saying "go screw yourself" is never the option.I do admit that I probably lean more right than left, but I'd like to consider myself mostly in the center. However, the pure vitriol and slander from both sides (and indirectly shown by that posts in this topic) just saddens me. I understand that what some of you think Trump is doing is wrong, but jumping on every "wrong" thing that you believe he says and dragging him through the ground is below human decency. And same to the Alt right. Saying ignorant things about how the economy should come first is seriously saddening, as it is the people who drive the economy. If you think about it, the more people die, the less people you would have to sell to.I wish, especially now, that people could just stop bickering along political lines like little children. It's honestly depressing how this situation has devolved into even more vitriol in politics. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523575/#p523575 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read 53, A few things.I didn't overcome my blindness. That phrase is used so much I have no idea it means anymore. Does my blindness not exist now because I get a job? I would say absolutely not. I think battling or fighting with blindness is a more accurate term, as it is an ongoing process. I never thought that blind people collecting SSI and SSDI are people being lazy or anything. I really think blindness is one of the top 5 most severe disabilities one can be born with or acquire, and any disability coming on top of blindness shrinks it into the top 3 easily, and I am glad the system appears to recognize that. When faced with a choice with minimum wage rehab and benefits, I probably would take the benefits too, like you would. There is a third option, take the benefits, and move abroad where they will be worth more, and you can still get them that way.As for the rich, I am not implying that taxing more will magically make the situation disappear overnight or it will solve other problems. It will however, raise substantially more money for the government, allow a single payer healthcare system, a stronger social safety net, hopefully! better pandemic preparidness, infrastructure developments and improvements etc. And they should own probably less wealth they would now if those rates were raised. This isn't about taking away peoples' wealth, it is demanding that people contribute to society the way they are most able. Moreover, I agree with the need for a better healthcare system, am mostly in favor of single payer, but this means more taxes too, even though a majority of the middle class and lower income groups will save more. So even though it wouldn't stop the rich from being rich, higher percentages and closing tax loopholes would allow possibly better healthcare infrastructure etc. But if you see the OECD average for income tax, you will see the US is much lower down in the scale than most of the developed countries there. Finally, taxing noncitizens in the States, and taxing citizens outside the states is very clearly theft. in the first instance noncitezens pay payroll taxes even though they will never be eligible for the benefits. In the second instance, you are taxing a person even though they don't reside in the country, and moreover on top of any taxes that country might impose. This type of person pays taxes solely by virtue of being a citizen with very little to no benefit to themselves, at a significant time and monitary expense, as foreign taxes can quickly get very complex. Moreover due to the reporting requirements for foreign banks, many in Europe are flat out refusing to do business with citizens in order to not have to deal with the IRS. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523569/#p523569 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @50I'm sorry that you had a bad experience. As I said I think that current politicians are money-to-the-rich types. But like many, I must say that I think you are failing to understand two important factors.First, I'm glad that you're fortunate enough to have overcome blindness and to be employed etc. I have too. But most haven't, and in all honesty most won't. And if you go blind later, you aren't going to be able to just go back to your old profession without years and years of rehab at best, and at worst you're never going to recover from it. It's not like people *want* to sit at home on SSDI, but when the choice is between making minimum wage or less at some shitty job that the rehab agency got you, quite possibly working in the rehab agency, or being on SSDI and having a life, I know which I'd choose, and even if I chose employment I'd still be looking at using it for 5 to 10 years minimum to get to that point. At the end of the day most blind people will end up on benefits at some point in their lives, and a really, really large percent will stay there for lack of good options to do otherwise. Though beside the point, I personally believe in a universal basic income, so I don't see any moral problem with that--safety nets should be there for a reason, and though we like to tell ourselves otherwise, blindness is honestly a hell of a reason.Second, no level of tax penalties to the rich are going to satisfy you because the nature of percent gains is that the rich will always win. You can raise the taxes on the rich all you want, but you'll still be living in a world where the rich seemingly get a bunch of tax breaks that you don't have by investing in things that give you a percent return instead of a flat salary. In all honesty I'd be willing to bet most rich people don't care about whether you decide to tax the rich, because anything short of "we the government hereby declare that you aren't allowed to have over a million dollars" or something will still make the investments return percents instead of fixed dollars, and as long as you have that your growth is exponential.And once you've done that you quickly find out that the amount of money you can extract from the rich is still way, way too little to do all the things people think it'll let us do. Will it help sure, but there's hundreds and hundreds of times more money to be had by figuring out better tax structures for the rest of us, or reallocating things, or etc.If someone came out tomorrow and said "I am the magic king of taxes and I will now be taxing the rich an extra 40% a year" or something I'd be for it. But it'd get us one of the enumerable projects we might want to use the money for. It's an improvement. But the rich are still basically the same amount of rich afterwords, we've only got the one project of many, and frankly to some extent all that did is redirect money from charities to the government who will redistribute it, possibly to do less good less efficiently than those charities. So I don't think it's so clear cut as all that, just throwing some extra taxes on it, because to some extent you're just saying that you're going to redistribute money from people like the Gates Foundation or fighting malaria or whatever to the government under the hope that the government can do better. I land on the side of taxing the rich, sure, and some years ago I was as vehemently for it as you, but when you look into it it just isn't really solving anything much in the grand scheme. There's a hell of a lot of other inefficiencies you could tackle, like making it easier to get drugs approved, or making it possible for doctors to function without having to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for liability insurance per year each, or doing government-sponsored healthcare, or reforming copyright and patent law to stop giant monopolies like the drug companies from existing, or I could go on for a while.I'm not saying that I think we efficiently allocate tax money. I'm not saying that you don't have the right to be mad that things like scholarships can get taxed. I'm not saying that you should be taxed for living in the U.S. as a noncitizen, or that as a citizen you should be taxed if you're not contributing to the U.S. economy, or anything else along those lines. I don't even know for sure what my opinion is on all those issues. I'm only saying that you're blaming the wrong thing for the wealth disparity What I blame is this: we didn't tie the minimum wage to inflation, we didn't keep the real estate market under control, we didn't keep the healthcare market under control. My father was able to get a giant house with a yard nearish downtown on the salary of a teacher in the early 90s. Nowadays an apartment costs what their mortgage did, roughly. We went from 10% to 20% of your money being spent on housing to 30+%. Medical care costs have been rising exponentially f
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read well, I was able to claim it just fine, it is a 1600 or so deduction, and you answer yes to are you blind question? If you are married, it is lowered by 300 or so. You also lose that if you itimize your return rather than take the standard deduction. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523553/#p523553 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @50: Nope. Many posts here are horribly spelled and I don't remember which ones now. That's why I didn't single out one person.I'd like to add to your last post in addition to what you've written, the tax credit used to be a mere $200 USD. Within the last three years, that has vanished also. My tax bill for 2019 was well over $3,000, so no, to whoever said we pay much less than nondisabled people, I don't see it. By the way, this is how much I owed *after* my standard payroll tax. I stopped counting but I've most likely paid over 10 grand in taxes for 2019 alone. So as other disabled people will tell you, we don't get tax breaks here. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523548/#p523548 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read 48, that tax deduction is actually 1600 dollars, comes with a marriage penalty, and is literally a joke compared to the tax break aforded to blind people, in many developed countries. Keep in mind that I am comparing developed countries, where there is some sort of substantial deduction. Again, this was the case until the reagan tax cuts. Also, the idea that we get alot of it back isn't true for most people, the only reason someone would go on SSI is if they didn't work enough to take SSDI, and the only reason someone would take SSDI would be developing additional disabilities or not being able to maintain their current job, not many other reasons exist. And I do think some politicians think hard on how they can screw over poor and middle class people and give their rich donors tax cuts. There can be no other explanation when you see some of the stuff passed and originally proposed by the republicans, for example trying to tax tuition waivers as actual income, shooting up the tax bills of students by thousands of dollars. Regular scholarships are already taxed at ordinary income rates now, I was actually blessed, or cursed? to attend a prestigious institution with a generous scholarship abroad. But the US is the only country in the world probably that taxes this type of payment, and definately is the only country that has a citizenship as opposed to residency based tax system, so I ended up having to pay a massive aprox 1700 dollar tax bill due to that money being counted as income, and despite not residing in country for thee duration of the programs. Moreover, as the money was in GBP, converting it to dollars for tax purposes was manditory and artificially inflated amounts, despite that money being worth less in GBP than it would've been in dollars in the states. The loopholes I was mentioning aren't for regular retirement accounts or IRAs, but are definately there, for the mega rich I mean, who can open investment accounts, and hold stock, and let it massively increase in value, while paying nothing, and only paying a much lower capital gains tax when selling it. Also property while taxed by the states isn't taxed by the federal government iether, so they can hold that and pay very little, still only paying capital gains when selling it after the first 250k.49, if that was directed at me, I am not currently writing a thesis, scientific paper, or assignment, therefore I do not take as much care with my punctuation or spelling as I normally would. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523540/#p523540 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read 48, that tax deduction is actually 1600 dollars, comes with a marriage penalty, and is literally a joke compared to the tax break aforded to blind people, in many developed countries. Keep in mind that I am comparing developed countries, where there is some sort of substantial deduction. Again, this was the case until the reagan tax cuts. Also, the idea that we get alot of it back isn't true for most people, the only reason someone would go on SSI is if they didn't work enough to take SSDI, and the only reason someone would take SSDI would be developing additional disabilities or not being able to maintain their current job, not many other reasons exist. And I do think some politicians think hard on how they can screw over poor and middle class people and give their rich donors tax cuts. There can be no other explanation when you see some of the stuff passed and originally proposed by the republicans, for example trying to tax tuition waivers as actual income, shooting up the tax bills of students by thousands of dollars. Regular scholarships are already taxed at ordinary income rates now, I was actually blessed, or cursed? to attend a prestigious institution with a generous scholarship abroad. But the US is the only country in the world probably that taxes this type of payment, and definately is the only country that has a citizenship as opposed to residency based tax system, so I ended up having to pay a massive aprox 1700 dollar tax bill due to that money being counted as income, and despite not residing in country for thee duration of the programs. Moreover, as the money was in GBP, converting it to dollars for tax purposes was manditory and artificially inflated amounts, despite that money being worth less in GBP than it would've been in dollars in the states. The loopholes I was mentioning aren't for regular retirement accounts or IRAs, but are definately there, for the mega rich I mean, who can open investment accounts, and hold stock, and let it massively increase in value, while paying nothing, and only paying a much lower capital gains tax when selling it. Also property while taxed by the states isn't taxed by the federal government iether, so they can hold that and pay very little, still only paying capital gains when selling it after the first 250k. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523540/#p523540 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read I'm thoroughly enjoying reading this topic on my Braille display. The misspellings are amazing . URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523528/#p523528 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @47The loans could have been better handled, and you're right that a lot of it is going to people who don't need it. But don't forget that unemployment is funded by taxes, and at least a good bit of the loans--maybe even the majority--have made it to small businesses.Blind people don't pay the same amount of taxes in the U.S. You get an additional deduction of around $1000, and the 70% of blind people who are receiving money from the government don't pay taxes at all--indeed they benefit from taxes. So better to say that employed blind people who can afford to pay taxes pay around the same amount of taxes but not if your income is low enough that $1000 is a significant chunk of change. You might pay the same amount of taxes, but if you sum up the taxes paid by blind people and subtract the benefits blind people get back from the system you will find that we do pay less as a whole, possibly enough that that sum is negative. Also it is my understanding that various employment programs--the vending machine/restaurant stuff--provide very significant tax breaks, while also allowing you to collect SSDI to some extent (not SSI, SSDI is $25000/year or so and has much higher income limits). Plus of course SSDI itself is a good point: if you worked and then went blind, you can get better than the minimum wage for doing nothing.The property taxes are more than you think as well, since they go up with the value of the property irregardless of what you paid for it, and the capital gains taxes are problematic because you can't cash out until retirement and have to maintain a good bit of risk exposure. Also, the vast majority of people can save in an IRA or 401K, and will find that the maximum amounts for those are actually above what they can manage to save--it's only when you have more than $2 or so extra a year that capital gains comes into play. If you're self-employed you can get something on the order of the 401K limits as well, by establishing a SEP-IRA. I'm not rich, but I make enough that I looked into all the loopholes and things, and they're honestly not as good as people like to think, if they even exist at all.So: yeah we could handle it better. Yeah, I support taxing the mega-rich. But this idea that we don't do anything at all is false. Yeah, the poor get fucked over, but it's not that someone is sitting there figuring out how to give the rich more money all the time or something. Sure some politicians do, especially these days, but in my opinion that's more of a function of people (particularly minorities) becoming very politically inactive until after things got far enough that Trump could happen, not something flawed with government. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523485/#p523485 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read 43, taxes do benefit the wealthy and corperations, I am looking at that massive trillions of dollars in interest free lones to the banks, and airlines, as well as the bailouts of the 2008 economical crisis. I think it is safe to assume that that money didn't fall from the sky, or come out of thin air. And, what pisses people out that in a just system, taxes should be based on an ability to pay. But now, it is skewed the other way, where rich people and corperations have many tax credits, in effect where their actual rate is much lower, than the middle class or people with less income. Moreover, blind people pretty much pay the same amount of taxes, despite cost of living being higher substantially. Meanwhile while billionaires and corperations can pay literally 0 in taxes, things like academic prizes and scholarships, and other less common and minor types of income which typically aren't taxed around the world are taxed.44, I forgot to add on some more details. The reason and method where rich people can pay less taxes is things like stocks. Only salaries are subject to income taxes, plus the payroll or faica tax. Rich people hold things like stocks, property, etc that increase in value, but they don't have to pay anything for these until they sell them for the most part. And when they do sell them, they pay the capital gains tax, which is like 15% or 20% as opposed to the 37% top tax bracket. So I don't think the UK has a capital gains tax for stuff like homes. So to tax the wealth of the ultra rich, you would need to tax these things. Actually ironically Bill Gates calls for that type of tax. That 40% tax bracket would apply to salaries, and people making alot like CEOs would pay it. But still, the company could give stock compensation in place of alot of salary to let them get around that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523468/#p523468 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
2020-04-27
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Jaidon Of the Caribbean via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read And stupid-19 sounds like something that Donald would say. Hmm. I wonder if you're him in disguise? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523444/#p523444 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
2020-04-27
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Jaidon Of the Caribbean via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read You know what's bugging me with this entire Corona Virus, or, "Stupid-19" situation? At least here in Trinidad, its people's tendency to overreact, now that the virus is on our doorstep. Many years ago, I developed a kind of germophobic outlook on life. I still have it, washing my hands 35 second, begging my mom to walk with a wet wipe to wipe up the traly when we went to the grocery, etc. People saw me as accessive. Crazy, wasteful, etc. Now, my friends in school, are looking down on me because I don't wash my hands every second, or use an accessive amount of sanitiser on my hand. Heck. People are wwearing face masks in their own private vehicles, with nobody else on the road, with the windows rolled up, plus fresh air! My stupid grandmother, works as a domestic worker, meaning she stays in with people, and clean up their houses. She left us in San Fernando, to go all the way to Siparia to stay in with a family, even though we begged her to stay home with us. Now the old man has died, and is suspected to have contracted the corona virus, as he was in the hospital as someone who had the virus was being tested. Now, the stupid thing is, she sleeps in the house with the people, eat food with the people, yet still in the car she has on her face mask. I looked at how she was wearing her mask in a video call, and the mask wasn't even covering her nose. My neighbour, insists on wearing his mask in the truck, however when he comes to my mom's store he doesn't wear his mask. When he's working nextdoor with a bunch of Spanish randos who doesn't even live in the neighbourhood, he doesn't wear his mask. Can you understand it?The other day, my mom told me something that pissed me off. I always hought that the TT government was handling the situation quite nicely, preventing the virus to spiral out of control. we have about a hundred and nine cases, with people being discharged everyday. They insist on keeping everyone home, closing down businesses. OK cool. But they're saying, they'll open the economy by May tenth, and here's the really fucky thing, they want to open the borders to international arrivals. Stupid, right? Our health minister keeps yapping on about the second wave, and the second wave, and yadadadadadadadah. However, he doesn't think that opening the fucking borders to bloody American and European arrivals won't cause a Second wave? And this time, the wave will actually affect us here. In my opinion, our politicians are not thinking about Trinidad and Tobago, but about the US. About seventy percent of the cases here or even more, came from foreign transport, about seventy people infected with the virus were on a cruise ship, and the first case, aka patient zero came back from doing business in good ole, neutral Switzerland. To my knowledge, which, is the knowledge I'm gathering from the press conferences the MOH, Chief Medical Officer, and Prime Minister are having, they've quarintined everyone suspected of having the virus. So my question is, if they've done that, how the hell could we get a second wave if they keep our borders closed? Its not adding up. As I was telling my stepfather, whose really paranoid about this whole ordeal, it would make more sense to open back the Trinidadian Economy, than it will be to Reopen the American one. The virus doesn't really have a threat to us here, thank god, so as long as we take a Japanist approach we should be fine. To the rest of you, stay home. This isn't really the time to be telling people fuck you and dadadadadaaddadadah. I've always been told that its better to try your best to teach someone something, or try to let the person understand your point of view, than it is to force your opinions on the person. Guys, if you keep it up, yule end up like Sky Guardian. Stay safe, and use your own common sense for me please. Don't listen to what the politicians have to say, because at the end of the day, they only want votes, or to look like they're actually right, when they're actually wrong. cough, cough, cough, Trump, cough cough cough. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523442/#p523442 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @enes, thanks for that long post. Really, there should be more of them explaining, rather than shorter ones that don't explain as much, or, definitely, the ones that attack a person for the ideas they *currently* hold. Because people are complex. I try to be centrist, instead of too far right or too far left. Sometimes I don't achieve that, because politics is complicated, and keeping everything in my small mind at once, including the things I take for granted, is hard. But I'm pleasantly surprised that rich people in the UK aren't too rich, and that Sanders and all the other politicians who are rich may be trying to use their power for good.@camlorn, I don't have an answer for this. I myself benefit from these things the government does. Shoot, I just wish there wasn't so much corruption, and that politics wasn't embedded in just about everything nowadays, and that the world wasn't so divided and people could look up and across to the other side and at least try to understand why there are opposing views, and why someone would have them. That's what I'm trying to do, and yes, some leftist ideas make sense. People should be able to live comfortably, and blind people should have a way to be equal with everyone else. But my biggest concern is power that government and yes, corporations, can have and misuse. Maybe I am being just pessimistic. I have a tendency to be that way. Maybe the world is better than I always think. But I do know that all this is very complicated, and I don't think that either side has all the answers. The best thing to do is calm discourse, finding out what does work and what doesn't. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523430/#p523430 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @35I've got news. The kind of tracking you fear is already happening. Unfortunately I don't have the better article where a reporter doing a story on this went out of his way to try to track himself from one of these datasets, and succeeded.People aren't talking about collecting new data. They're only talking about using data we already collect for Covid19 contract tracing, and you can already buy that data if you're a big enough company with the right connections. Apple isn't even involved as such: the people sending this data around are people like Uber and dating apps, which have in their terms and conditions that they can sell your data for any purpose (except in Europe, with the GDPR, and California, with a GDPR equivalent--but even then they can sell it, they just have to be more transparent).Also blind people don't really have any right as a whole to be mad about big government or taxes: that's where SSI comes from, that's where the things that fund college come from, that's where the ADA comes from. Big government is why employers can't fire you for being blind, among many other things. Despite what people like Trump try to claim, the money the government collects from taxes doesn't go to the rich, it goes to the light rail system or medical research or feeding the hungry or quite a number of other programs and public services you don't even think about because they're so expected that you take them for granted. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523412/#p523412 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read 40, a strong response, is definately to be expected when people show open destain towards the livelyhood of others, and show their greed in wanting to line their pockets, and do whatever the hell they want with no regard to anyone or the consequences. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523411/#p523411 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read Accman wrote:People die on a daily basis, and that's just reality. We lost over 200,000 people this past flu season and was there a state of panic over that? No, there wasn't.you are implying that deaths are every day, yes, maybe,just maybe one or two. Here at the current rate at least your so beloved country, which has the smartest president in the history telling people to go intoxicate themselves by drinking disinfectant to get rid of the stupid 19 as you call it, you are now climbing into the thousands, if not more, daily. And that is just your little, tiny part of the world--remember, there is more, out there, such as italy, spain, and so on. Current registered (because there can be more, unregistered) deaths right now is at around 208 thousand deaths, about 150 more times than just your country and that will go up. Oh! guess what, this number is even bigger than the case you gave us to look at and study. But no worries, you still got at least a year that will bring more deaths to all of the world, its just reality.Please read the first 11 posts or so of this thread and come back with a better, more informed opinion, because we all wish it was just a simple common cold, because we at least know what that is like. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523396/#p523396 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read One of the things that bothers me about this whole ordeal is peoples willingness to say "Fuck you" to people who are merely stating their opinion, even after Jayde issued a general caution telling people NOT to do this. Nobody is cursing you out, so for the love of all things holy can we at least TRY to keep this conversation civil? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523393/#p523393 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read 35, for data tracking, there will and should be an outcry if apple continues to use this. That will very likely be resolved. Those celebrities are rich in Europe, but the system blunts it, and there isn't as bad as an inequality difference. For example, If I recall correctly, the UK top tax bracket is higher than 40%. Turkey recently also raised the top tax bracket from 40% to 50%. The UK also does not give people a standard deduction or standard allowance as it is called there, if they make over a certain amount.For the dstribution of wealth, I think I can outline a good system. Firstly, regardless of someone's work, or ability to work, they should have enough money to meet basic needs, food, shelter, and standard amounts of utilities, and healthcare, meaning the minimum wage should be a livable wage, not a poverty wage. For people with disabilities, payments should be made, regardless on how much they make to cover disability specific costs, as money allows a disabled person to do less compared to the sighted person with the same amount. For example, say you made 6 dollars a year in your job. Compared to a sighted person making the same amount, it is safe to say the money would be worth less to you, as you would have disability specific manditory expenses, such as canes, food/grocery orders, etc that a sighted person does not have. The UK is good in this, as there is a disability independence payment paid out weekly regardless of income. An alternative or an additional measure should be a very substantial tax credit or deduction aforded to people based on disability. There are two reasons behind this. First, as I stated above, the living costs of having a disability is much higher compared to a regular person. second, people with disabilities do not benefit nearly as much from public services, due to barriers with access and several other reasons. There actually was such a credit, which was around 2600 dollars in 1936's money which was adjusted for income until Reagan cut the disability tax deduction substantially in the 1980s. Turkey has this, where unles you make an outragously high amount, you practically pay no income tax if you are totally blind. This reduces the gap of income between disabled and non-disabled people.For social security disability insurance, payments should allow someone to live with dignity and comfortably at their current state. A disability should not be measured soley whether someone can work or not, but what type of work they are capable of, and what they are doing now due to their disabilities. For example, lets say Mr. X worked as a manager, making 14 dollars a year, and has a graduate degree. But he had additional disabilities, that came up later, and his condition worsened. So he quit his job, and started working filing papers for 27000 dollars. Now, this man should be considered disabled, as the income of people with comparable education and experience far exceeds the money he is making, and it is obviously seen that his condition affects the type of work he can do, even though he is still able to work at some capacity. People in this situation should still be entitled to compensation and disability payments.Well sorry about the long post, it has grown quite alot. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523380/#p523380 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read I understand people's frustration, but at the end of the day, we're better safe than sorry.And people ask if you'd shelter in place because of a new strand of flu? Flu is different from this virus because we know what Flu is and how to treat it. With COVID19, although treatments are under development and people have recovered from it, we don't have any form of vaccination to completely mitigate it URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523363/#p523363 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @25. this is the most ignorant thing I've heard all day. your just as stupid and ignorant as trump. fuck you. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523355/#p523355 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read Bernie Sanders was (and still is) advocating for democratic socialist policy. I fail to see why he is being demonized, even indirectly, just because he is wealthy. It sounds more like he's trying to recognize the power he has and use it for good. Stephen King, albeit not a politician, is in a similar boat. He has said more than once that he is willing to pay far more tax than he does if it means others like him also have to do the same, and if it means that folks who truly need the help get what they require.Devin, your talk of apple or google not ceasing their tracking when this is said and done...I'm just not sure the purpose you're trying to serve. I mean yes, it's possible they won't stop. But perhaps folks will try and hold them accountable? Or perhaps data is already being tracked, and people only want a new hobby-horse to kick. Let's be real here. If you look at all closely, just as one example, it's stupidly easy to track who watches what TV, right down to the average age of viewers. Movie theaters do this too. No one seems to mind. Data is another tool. It can be misused, just as any tool can, but I feel like flagging this cell-phone tracking thing as potentially problematic before it is actually problematic is just done in bad faith. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523352/#p523352 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read I try not to take sides, and you're right, the celebrities we all love, the rich, are all very powerful for no great reason. But have we seen a good system of wealth distribution? Have we seen a good system where good comes of a few being rich? I'm sure there are plenty in Europe who are just as rich as American celebrities. And really, I don't care about the rich, they almost always forget about the common person and live in their 2+ houses, like the mainstream media, Berny Sanders, all of them are just rich people that want more wealth that they'll tax from us to fund the big government. Yes, perhaps its good that the government can keep us all on lockdown for the moment, but what I'm saying is, what about when it's over? Yes, its probably for the best that Apple and google can track us to see who has come into contact with Covid carriers. But do you think they'll stop tracking when its over? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523346/#p523346 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read 32, this is exactly the problem. Trump downplaying the virus, and waiting to take action until it spread all around the world. The us almost has a million infections, and will likely have more now, with republican governers opening up states before the numbers even started decreasing. If I am not mistaken, you also have a universal insurance in Austria that covers the population, so you don't have issues with people accessing care, that is another aspect lowering the death tole. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523243/#p523243 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read 31, well right now, we need is more government by a longshot, not less. Look how well less government worked out, budget cuts to give more tax cuts to billionaires and corperations who don't need them got rid of the pandemic preparidness team, not to mention the fact that the CDC neeeds a hell of a lot more personell to do proper contact tracing. While you say you take no sides, the idea that more government control would lead to communist China is distinctly radically right wing. As for so called wealth redistribution, noone is saying that that having more wealth than the general population is evil, or bad to be compensated if you have more skills in a certain area or more education. What democratic socialists are pissed off is that while some people in the world live on less than $2 a day,, while large numbers of people in the US live below poverty, and can't aford health insurance, and and live on social security money, which is a joke compared to the average in developed countries, others have hundreds of billions of dollars, and keep increasing their wealth through no efort, or no contribution to society. Moreover, these people also don't contribute as they don't pay the same level of taxes that people of a lower income pay percentage wise. If right wingers should be believed, we should get rid of the income tax entirely for these people, and put all the tax burdin on the middle class, through outragously high payroll taxes and outragously high sales taxes, and these people should increase their wealth unchecked until they control all the wealth on the planet. For most people, the opposition isn't to the fact they make more money, but the stupidly high amounts they do compared to the general population. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523241/#p523241 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read I'm going to bring my side of the story to this discussion. @25 and others who think similarly, please educate yourselves on what is happening in some countries other than the US. In Austria, we didn't wait until we had 1 infected. We successively closed public venues, schools, and stores, and how many cases did we have back then? 200. And for two-four weeks after the country was closed down, our infection numbers still increased, the highest amount of active cases we had at one time was about 1. But these numbers have been consistently going down over the past weeks, we're now down to about 2000 currently infected, over 12000 have recovered and we have fixed plans for what, when and how aspects of the economy will begin to work again. IN europe, we're one of the fastest recovering countries, if the covid 19 stats tracker is accurate. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523237/#p523237 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read You know, as long as government doesn't keep us under lockdown longer than needed, and if they don't freaking Blair the Divergent sirens because gotta make people scared, I may be able to believe that our government is good for something other than controlling everything they can. Luckily, plenty of people are just doing what the government says, even though this could have started sooner. You know, that bad Flue season? Wonder how much of that was Covid? So I've been at home for a month, just about two months in fact, with quite cool air so bacteria is killed, wearing my jacket just about all the time, making food last until someone can go to Walmart again. So if this results in the government having even more power, then I'll be even more frustrated at them. for those of you who want some form of government to rule us completely, or rule our means of production, shoot, who says a scientist could be better than Trump? Who says a scientist wouldn't just eliminate religion and have people solve advanced calculous in order to reproduce? Cause you know, we don't want dumb patriots roaming around, do we? I mean, they're all rebellious against the new world order, why give people the chance to spawn such Neanderthals?However, there is the chance that some states will resolves such power. I'm not saying that New York, California, and Michigan will become dystopian brave new worlds after Covid-19, but once certain types of people latch on to the scent of power, they won't give it up so easily. Why would they? Keep the people scared, keep them enflamed with videos of preachers out defying the rules, out acting stupid, and definitely keep them self righteous that their side is right, true, just, real, human; and the other is not.Now, I don't really affiliate with the right or left. Too far left, and you need power because anything greater than the common man is evil and must be destroyed and money must be distributed to those who believe that they know best. Too far right and corporations rule, and that's not any better. Can't we be in the center, or somewhere near that? But no, we just have to divide, and devide, until we're all isolated and alone and think everyone is beneath human for having divergent beliefs, and yet we must work together or the earth ends in 10 years, but no one will listen because they're all Trump supporters.Oh, and "social distance" is an awful phrase, and whoever created it knew exactly what that means. They could have used physical distancing. They could have used pandemic personal bubble. But no, social distancing. Being socially distant, socially isolated. Maybe that's a stretch, and no one thinks of it like that, but goodness words matter, right? Words mean things, right? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523136/#p523136 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read Moderation:I'm going to go ahead and issue a general caution here. Some pretty incendiary things are being discussed here. That's fine. But I think we need to stop short of personal attacks, folks. Tear someone's opinion into tiny pieces if you want to. But please try not to attack them directly. I don't want to have to start giving out warnings. The only reason I haven't is that I don't want to be heavy-handed, but if I'm forced, I'll go that route. Folks like Stirlock, I'm looking at you.Okay, moderation hat off now.Munawar, I'm thinking of it in an even bigger picture sense. Personal freedom only equates to money because capitalism says it should. But we're finding out that this does not, in fact, actually have to be true. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523119/#p523119 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read the spanish Flu honestly should be a great case study on why we should be sheltering ourselves. As someone mentioned, governments actually tried to hide the fact there was a pandemic that was so deadly. Especially since there was already a great war wrapping up that killed millions of people. therefore, options to try to limit the spread of the Spanish Flu were minimal, and it essentially had its way with the population until someone raised the alarm about it. here, the same post is trying to do the same thing, downplay the danger this virus can cause for people who fall under the vulnerability populations, or who roll a 1 out of a d50 with the 2% chance of death. Honestly, for most people, this isn't a virus that is too dangerous. It's only a threat to young people, old people, people with auto-immune diseases, and issues with immune systems in general. however, may I be the first person to tell you that if this is your outlook on things, please go fuck yourself. Some of the language I've seen from people about letting those people sacriice themselves to allow corporate fat cats to keep the money flowing and not dipping into their savings is just disgusting. There are people with legitimate fears of catching this virus, which will spell either a death sentence or severe complications once they recover. Also, the reason Kovid 19 hasn't slaughterred more people is because we're taking steps not to let a virus ravage us. Let's think about this. The flu, only having a 0.2% death rate results in 200k+ deaths, even with vaccines. This is in a non-quantine senario. Now, what would happen if something with 10 times the death rate, and no vaccine were to be in the same environment? Just goes to show that the scientific method and critical thinking courses should be stressed a lot harder to make people consider every aspect of statistical data coming in. Of course Kovid has less deaths right now. kovid doesn't have the same free reign as the flu right now. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523102/#p523102 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read "Are you going to shelter in place every time a new strand of the flu happens?"This person needs to put their mask and gloves on, go outside, find the nearest plant and apologize to it profusely for wasting the oxygen that it has to work so hard to produce.COVID-19 is not the flu, you can't go out tomorrow and get inoculated against whatever mutation of the virus that just so happens to be the cool kid at that particular time. We still don't know if you can develop an immunity to the virus.People always go on about how much of a nothingburger Y2K was, completely ignorant of just how many people busted their asses to make it so. This corona virus denial/downplaying? It's just more of the same bullshit where people are suddenly fucking experts and know everything because they watched the news.Heard immunity? The UK pissed about with that strategy, because we're all supposed to be British bulldogs with the hearts of lions that ward off death and disease by singing a rousing chorus of god save the queen every morning or something, but you can see how well that worked out for us.Yet so many complete fucking mouth breathers insist that that's the only way forward, that we just have to not be pussies, open everything back up and take it on the jaw because it's just a flu bro! Also while we're at it burn everything that looks like radio communications gear, because that 5G shit is the spawn of Satan.The entire situation only seems like not such a big deal (relatively speaking) because we're all busting ass and getting cabin fever to buy time until a group of actual experts (not Karren on Facebook) can come up with a solution that will stop this virus from murdering a sizable chunk of us.Numbers that already shouldn't be so high in certain countries would be so... so much worse if we'd listened to the it's just a flu bro crowd and kept everything open and functioning as normal. A virus that we have bugger all immunity to spreading completely unchecked through the population doesn't even bare thinking about, but scientists had to, and that's why we're here today. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523082/#p523082 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read "Are you going to shelter in place every time a new strand of the flu happens?"This person needs to put their mask and gloves on, go outside, find the nearest plant and apologize to it profusely for wasting the oxygen that it has to work so hard to produce.COVID-19 is not the flu, you can't go out tomorrow and get inoculated against whatever mutation of the virus that just so happens to be the cool kid at that particular time. We still don't know if you can develop an immunity to the virus.People always go on about how much of a nothingburger Y2K was, completely ignorant of just how many people busted their asses to make it so. This corona virus denial/downplaying? It's just more of the same bullshit where people are suddenly fucking experts and know everything because they watched the news.Heard immunity? The UK pissed about with that strategy, because we're all supposed to be British bulldogs with the hearts of lions that ward off death and disease by singing a rousing chorus of god save the queen every morning or something, but you can see how well that worked out for us.Yet so many complete fucking mouth breathers insist that that's the only way forward, that we just have to not be pussies, open everything back up and take it on the jaw because it's just a flu bro! Also while we're at it burn everything that looks like radio communications gear, because that 5G shit is the spawn of Satan.The entire situation only seems like not such a big deal (relatively speaking) because we're all busting ass and getting cabin fever to buy time until a group of actual experts (not Karren on Facebook) can come up with a solution that will stop this virus from murdering a sizable chunk of us. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523082/#p523082 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @26 chill man chill, he's just stating his opinion like yours, no need to attack him URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523076/#p523076 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read 25Fuck you. That is all. Just, fuck you. That is the most ignorant shit I have ever heard in my life. It killed millions of people because 1. It was a hundred years ago, and medicine was nowhere near advanced as it is today and 2. The governments actively hid the fact that there was a pandemic going on at first. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523064/#p523064 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read The FaceBook post we're all talking about here is a breath of fresh air. Thank God someone finally gets it. There was no need to lock down the entire country over this. Take a look back at the Spanish Flu, or as we know of it in history, the Forgotten Pandemic. That thing took out over 50,000,000 People. In comparison, what we're dealing with is nothing. Am I sorry for those who have fallen ill, or died, because of this Corona Virus? Most certainly I am. However, we can't stop living just because others died. People die on a daily basis, and that's just reality. We lost over 200,000 people this past flu season and was there a state of panic over that? No, there wasn't. Here in Pennsylvania, we've got a governor who is hell0bent on seeing to it that we all live in fear, to the extent that deaths due to this virus were greatly exaggerated. He was called out on it, thus he and his administration had to make that correction. Is this a serious situation? Yes it is, but we can't go around living in fear because of it. For anyone who wants to, then fine, be my guest. However, I, and a lot of folks who are getting sick and tired of having our rights taken from us, intend to live life the way it was intended. I am sorry if that sounds harsh, but this virus, which I am now officially calling Stupid19 is really starting to get on my nerves, and those of a lot of others who just want to get back to making an honest living. To the original poster that started this thread, thanks so much for sharing that FaceBook post. It seems so good to see common sense still does exist. And, for those of you who have either been effected by this virus yourselves or know of those who have been sick or died because of it, I am sorry and feel for you for sure. However, it's time to start living again. I only hope our state leaders see this the same way. I know ours here in PA certainly doesn't seem to get it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/523057/#p523057 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read I didn't write that in post 8 (I wrote the first sentence and then quoted something I'd seen on FB). Just saying. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522977/#p522977 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read i am out of topic, why most of you hate facebook so much, i just curious. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522957/#p522957 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read i am out of topic why most of you do not like facebook in any way, is it sort of, controlled by government? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522955/#p522955 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @Jayde: To play devil's advocate here, personal freedom does equal money to a lot of people. It's easy for a lot of us to say money isn't freedom, but remember that the grass always appears greener on the other side. Those that are less fortunate than us will look at money and be like "Wow, if only I had that much." Those of us that have it can say that it doesn't amount to freedom because we've been there.I'm for keeping things locked down for as long as it takes, for the record. Only want to consider the other side on this one. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522942/#p522942 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read 16, You misunderstood me entirely. I was not implying that it is a good thing for this to spread and people to die. Tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands have already died in the world, at this point, I don't think it is a good idea for us to pick where we left off, without gaining any lessons from this situation, and not making legal changes, such as the social safety net etc, which should've been done years ago. So I do think some sort of change in our lives, both posetive and negative will exist when things settle down. But that doesn't make this situation any less bad or tragic. It might be the only posetive that can be gotten out of a situation. Think about it, if there had been a single payer healthcare system, better pandemic preparedness, and a better social safety net and unemployment benefits for a situation like this, do you think the financial hardship people are facing would be as bad as it is now?18, while people advocating for opening up all might not be billionaires I would say more than 90% of them are, or people buying into the propaganda and misinformation spewed by them or media under their control. The truth of the matter is the United States is not in a situation to consider reopening. This is what the experts are saying. There isn't sufficient contact testing, and testing itself to determine the sick and to seperate them and determine their contacts. The people seeking to open, want to make a few more bucks by propping up their stocks while completely disregarding what such an action would do to people. In fact, some, like the Texas leutennent governer, even say that money, is more important than human life, and that lives can be sacrificed for it.and 14, lol I guess then that the government giving out a measly 1200 dollarswhile handing out more than 5.5 trillion dollars to airlines, and big companies in interest free lones isn't tyranny. I guess the government taxing the poor more percentage wise, while including many loopholes for the rich to get away with paying alot less of a percentage isn't tyranny iether. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522824/#p522824 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read The fact is, we aren't equipped.Even the experts, who have been studying this with far more knowledge than we've got, aren't quite sure what they're doing.It behooves us to defer to experts where possible. No amount of personal outrage is going to substitute for that level of common sense. No matter how angry you are, that doesn't mean you get to ignore those who have made this field of study their life's work. There is no level of anger or hauteur that suddenly makes bucking the advice that's still being given a good idea.I'm not of the mindset that anyone wanting to open back up is a greedy one-percenter, although many of those types exist and many of them are advocating to do things which will ostensibly help them financially. The thing is, that word "ostensibly" is in place for a reason. Because one thing a lot of experts do say is that if we jump the gun, things will get worse. Potentially far worse. As such, it pays, quite literally in some cases, to be cautious. We don't need things getting any worse.It would be lovely to have fewer restrictions. I hear that. But when you get right down to it, any reasons for reopening come down to money. Not well-being. Not personal freedom. Money. And no, personal well-being and money aren't the same thing, so let's dispense with that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522814/#p522814 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read Okay. So, here's my understanding. Those who want to keep the lockdown are evil governmental dictators who want to keep all the sheeple under there control, and those who want to reopen everything are moneygrubbing billionaires who want more money to keep the sheeple under there control. Neither side cares about human lives and only care for their own interests.So far, both sides have mounted to bad faith arguments that have only succeeding in making the argument that we should just remove humanity entirely. That being said, let's take a step back and think from the perspective of someone you disagree with. To be honest, I don't envy the leadership hear. No matter what decision they make, there will be blood. Either starvation, virus, or both. Indeed, 6 made an interesting point that I hadn't considered as I am a more we should be taking more steps to reopen kind of person. Arguing based on proper merits allows us to make arguments that could change people's minds. Bare in mind, not everyone advocating to reopen are greedy horrible people, in fact I'd go as far to say few to none of them are. Same to those who want to keep the system closed. I think assuming the worst about a person giving a certain argument is quite destructive. This is a descussion that needs to be had. It really is important. We as humans have to decide what kind of society we want to live in. Due to the selfish nature of humanity, the best we can do is bring our own, honest interests to the table and make a choice. It's because of this selfish nature that we must work together from our own respective points of view rather than have a king or emperor make these decisions. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522812/#p522812 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read hahaha. and this is why I don't go to facebook anymore. agreed with Ethin. So you want to go out to go somewhere? won't you spread it to someone vonerable? don't you feel bad about that? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522808/#p522808 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read @15No. No no no. If we get to the point where someone with asymptomatic covid goes out to the bar a couple times and 5 people die from it, that is not worth a stronger social safety net. That is what literally kills entire cities, grinds the economy to a halt, kills more people than died in World War II.In the end, even if we can't vaccinate, we will probably be able to treat it. But come on. What you're saying here is really not thought out at all. That's like "sorry your dog died and also your house burned down and god has personally cursed you forever. But here, have a slice of cake". URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522807/#p522807 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read 13, I don't think that change isn't a bad thing though, if it is for the better. For example, strengthening the social safety nets, providing manditory paid sick leave etc. If this virus leads tto such changes, I would argue those changes would be very benefitial and benefit society.and another thing that is so idiotic about that facebook post in 1 is how covid is compared to the flue, and the likelyhood of dieing it from it the same as being struck by lightning. That is a a moronic comparison to say the least. Being infected by covid is a much much higher possibility than being struck by lightning, and catching the flue usually isn't more than minor for most people, while people with covid have been developing strange blood clotting issues which can't be explained, as well as infections in the brain. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522806/#p522806 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read you will see the rise of tyrants.Amazing. I guess the government hording *our* money and struggling to give us only $1,200 of it is not tyranny. I guess people illegitimately becoming president is not tyranny. I guess the 1% is not tyranny. I guess the system actively working to keep poor people poor with bank overdraft/insufficient funds fees is not tyranny. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522803/#p522803 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read It's also mildly concerning that people are testing positive after recovering, enough so that the WHO and many other people are starting to become concerned that the whole immunity passport thing might not be such a great idea. The jury is still out on that and my money is currently on "we produced the tests too fast and they're faulty".But some basic naive math suggests that if you can be reinfected and we stop social distancing now, the projected death rates of the U.S. alone immediately shoot into the millions, and anyone with it basically becomes some sort of walking murderbot that kills multiple people every time they go out.So, here's hoping this doesn't prove to literally permanently change all of society. It's possible that it could. HIV did in the 80s. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522801/#p522801 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read If it was only just one person wanting to go out, one person wanting to visit a friend, I can empathize.But the problem is, we're a group. A huge, huge group that could do a lot of damage if we began acting inappropriately.The socially proper thing to do is to be cautious. This doesn't mean hiding indoors for four years and only going out in a hazard suit. But it doesn't mean howling about your liberties either.The facebook quote from post 1 just makes me shake my head and roll my eyes. It's wishful thinking, and yes, it's selfish as hell. Because while feeling sorry for yourself for a little bit, or frustrated, or even scared, is perfectly well and good, deciding that these reactions should mean that you can do whatever it takes to alleviate that state of mind, regardless of the cost to others, is the height of folly. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522773/#p522773 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read 1, that fb post is so bone headed. Coming in while sick is not only irrosponsible and selfish, but you could be a murderer too. If you have a coleague who has an autoemune condition taking emunosuppresants, you could actually kill them with, "only! the flue!". Individual freedoms should not ever superseed the public's right to safety. The reason right winggers are pushing to open the country today, with no regard to safety is their stock portfolios. They want to continue to make profits, regardless of the cost to society or human suffering. The fact of the matter is, that opening should only! be considered when, you have sufficient staff to perform contact testing and quarantine the sick and when the number of cases has a consistant decline, and when the burdin on hospitals is substantially reduced. In this regard, very surprisingly, the Trump reopening guidelines are reasonable. Not that some states actually follow them. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522770/#p522770 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read Ethin is right. I see the situation with a little more clarity now. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522725/#p522725 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read pointless URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522721/#p522721 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read I think another FBer put it a lot better:My timeline is a disaster right now. To those of you who feel like we should take this quarantine more seriously - I hear you. People are dying.To those of you who feel like we should go back to business as usual - I hear you, too. Our livelihoods are dying.But the truth is that no one really knows exactly when we should start to open this thing back up again. The experts don't really know. They're doing the best they can, but the honest ones will say they're not 100% sure.Hear me here. Experts - people with doctorate degrees in this stuff - aren't 100% sure. They have access to all of the data and all the history and all of the models. They're watching what's happening around the world and trying to make the best decisions they can with the economy AND human lives in the balance.You aren't an expert. I'm not an expert. We don't have access to all the information they do. And even if we did, we wouldn't know what to make of it. Our role is just to do what we have to do to survive, help each other out, and be cool.So quit it with the drama. Right-wingers, we're not re-opening the state today. Left-wingers, we're not all going to die if your neighbor goes to Lowes. Be cool. We're going to be okay.I know it's not fun. I miss being on stage. I miss traveling. I miss hugging people. I know my friends are watching their businesses crumble. I know people are dying. It sucks. It all sucks.But throughout history and around the world, people have been through a lot worse with a lot less complaining. We're not really showing a whole lot of toughness here. For all the bluster about greatness, a lot of us are revealing ourselves to be whiners who think we're entitled to a risk-free, pain-free existence.2020 is going to be a big chapter in the history books. Our kids are going to ask us what we did. Don't have to tell them you were a conspiracy theorist or a panic monkey or a whiner. Be able to tell them that you did what you had to do and we made it. Be able to tell them that, if you were able, you helped people - and if you needed help, you took it with dignity. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522717/#p522717 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read And this is why I don't trust some random facebook post to tell me how I should be feeling about this whole mess. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522700/#p522700 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read None of that changes the math. If we lift the lockdown before the virus is contained, it will spread like wildfire and strain the medical system to the breaking point. People will die. The Public will instinctively react to protect themselves anyway from infection and the risk of a death sentence, industries: domestic, imports, exports, will be impacted. Make no mistake, this is hard on everyone, but it'll be hard no matter what we do. The virus doesn't care about borders, what you want, or who you are. Either we risk an economic collapse trying to contain it, or we kill people. The more people who die, the more economies will struggle to recover, be quarantined by other nations, and risk a deeper, longer lasting collapse. We're already screwed, at this point its a question of how screwed and running damage control to make sure we at least have a way out by minimizing casualties. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522699/#p522699 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read i’ll pass on accidentally spreading the virus to any of my familly members, one of whom has a very good reason to be concerned, thank you very much. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522693/#p522693 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read
2020-04-25
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Jaidon Of the Caribbean via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Covid Fearers, Please Read hahah. In the end, we're all entitled? Aren't we? And I personally see nothing wrong with wanting freedom, or to keep people safe. So actually, both sides to the coin are just hypocritical wanna be influencers. And the sad thing is, there're sheeple who are willing to eat the dry, shitty grass that the influencers toss for them to eat. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/522685/#p522685 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
