Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing at post 135, i sent you a pm, if you still accept ne peopple's contributions to the project i'd be more then happy to help URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532669/#p532669 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Hi.I think that with initially presenting the game to this comunity thi forum has done it's purpose regarding the game. It brought the game to a bigger audience and extra skype groups, translations and other forums for other comunitys might have picked it up from here and went with it. So, technically speaking, Pragma can lean back and basically give two hoots about what we will do with the game, the playerbase is there and even if the game is not allowed to be published on here, it will reach all the players anyway, at least the AG archive will possibly always keep the latest copy around.Greetings Moritz. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532324/#p532324 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
2020-05-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : Jaidon Of the Caribbean via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing @Nidza, I'm sorry. I meant to say ference. Pragma, I'm sorry for failing to make the distinction URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532122/#p532122 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I can't find anywhere Pragma saying that he has other communities besides English. That is what some of us said on this topic, but not Pragma. And that is true, whether you feel it is a slap or not. Crazy party has a stable players base thanks to largely being translatable, not thanks to being on here. If nothing, the fact that updates are usually posted a few days later on here but yet people still immediately find out is a proof of that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532119/#p532119 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
2020-05-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : Jaidon Of the Caribbean via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing In my opinion, even though its Pragma's game, and his team, I feel like his post is a slap in the face of the English community. I respect him for standing firm on keeping CP an accessible MP, he lost me with the whole uh, we have other communities to stand on. I'm not stopping cp,, it's just my unimportant opinion for Pragma has slipped.But still, we cant force the guy to change his game because of 5 people. It's his choice, and yes, the sounds are apart of the appeal. It evokes the nastaljic feeling. The connections that you built with loved ones remembered and cherished. That's why the sounds are key, Jayde URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532111/#p532111 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I am not complaining about the 30 dollars I spent because I am fortunate enough to have 30 dollars to spend and it not make a huge impact of my current savings. Also I won't complain that I have access to over 63000 non cracked sounds for a whole year, in which I also get to keep even after my subscription has expired. That site has so much for such a little price. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531829/#p531829 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Actually, Liam and Jade were pushing equally as hard for the change, and it was the community that brought this up again and pushed for things to be more consistent.Jade could have done more moderating and less justifying his position it's true, but either way he was going to have to actually enforce the rules somehow.The issue of games in the database wasn't addressed from the start, because I think that the mods felt that doing so would ruin any chance of changing things over time, and the community collectively agreed with that. But eventually it was going to catch up with all of us...Jade is a good punching bag because he makes him self punchable, and doesn't know when to stop. But this is a shared responsibility, from the devs to the players to the mods, and has been since before the new regulations kicked in.You wana be mad at someone? Be mad at those who allowed these laws to pass in their current inconsistent form and those who couldn't be bothered to right a plane English version for the normies. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531822/#p531822 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I only have a couple things to say. As far as I'm concerned the project is over. Sorry to the people that paid for sounds but to be fare, you should have gotten Pragma's blessing before that, which is exactly why I held off my self. At least you can use all those cool sounds for something else if you want!I'm proud of everyone that tried to step up though. And I hope that in the future we might have the chance to help out for real.1. Jade can't be blamed for the mistakes of the past. He wasn't the one who let games with pirated sounds slide, and he can't be expected to recognize all of the stolen sounds by ear or have played every game in the database either. Even if you disagree with the need for doing this, you can't forget that it wasn't just him that decided, it was the whole mod team, so blame them all equally.2. Pragma has multiple communities to think about, not just this one, and while we may be a large portion of the players, it's only a subsection of us that even felt this was necessary. Even if he had agreed to doing a separate soundpack and having us do most of the work, the already almost insurmountable task of finding, editing, and retranslating all of those sounds would have been made doubly as hard by the requirement for them to sync up with the existing soundpack in time and volume. Chances were already high that this project wouldn't be scene to it's conclusion anyway.3. Reporting CP to Nintendo (a famously petty company when it comes to copyright) just to prove a point is a fucked up thing to do to someone else's work and all the players who enjoy it, especially considering that person isn't making any money off of that work. Seems like a good way to shoot your own community in the back while sacrificing a valuable part of it, for a reason that, a month down the line will probably ring pretty hollow in the justification department. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531812/#p531812 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Actually, Liam and Jade were pushing equally as hard for the change, and it was the community that brought this up again and pushed for things to be more consistent.Jade could have done more moderating and less justifying his position it's true, but either way he was going to have to actually enforce the rules somehow.The issue of games in the database wasn't addressed from the start, because I think that the mods felt that doing so would ruin any chance of changing things over time, and the community collectively agreed with that. But eventually it was going to catch up with all of us...Jade is a good punching bag because he makes him self a good punching bag, and doesn't know when to stop. But this is a shared responsibility, from the devs to the players to the mods, and has been since before the new regulations kicked in.You wana be mad at someone? Be mad at those who allowed these laws to pass in their current inconsistent form and those who couldn't be bothered to right a plane English version for the normies. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531822/#p531822 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Actually, Liam and Jade were pushing equally as hard for the change, and it was the community that brought this up again and pushed for things to be more consistent.Jade could have done more moderating and less justifying his position it's true, but either way he was going to have to actually enforce the rules somehow.The issue of games in the database wasn't addressed from the start, because I think that the mods felt that doing so would ruin any chance of changing things over time, and the community collectively agreed with that. But eventually it was going to catch up with all of us... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531822/#p531822 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Actually, Liam and Jade were pushing equally as hard for the change, and it was the community that brought this up again and pushed for things to be more consistent.Jade could have done more moderating and less justifying his position it's true, but either way he was going to have to actually enforce the rules somehow.The issue of games in the database wasn't addressed from the start, because I think that the mods felt that doing so would ruin any chance of changing things over time, and the community went with that. But eventually it was going to catch up with all of us... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531822/#p531822 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Actually, Liam and Jade were pushing equally as hard for the change, and it was the community that brought this up again and pushed for things to be more consistent. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531822/#p531822 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Thumbs up from me defender. However, to Zarvox, I believe that money isn't entirely wasted. You never know when the library you bought might be useful in your future project. To be fair though he didn't complain about that in the firstplace. We are indeed a smaller section of the Crazy party's playerbase. Crazy party has existed for 37 betas before it was translated to English, which is about 2 years. Before that, people in French have enjoyed the game and gave feedback about it. Now that it is in English, even more translations were made. Arabic, Romanian, Spanish, Portuguese, all of these are important communities with probably their own local forums, so the loss if CP was removed from here would be very minimal in my opinion. I can't be disappointed at Pragma either. Why would I say goodbye to a bunch of contributors to satisfy one forum, when these contributors probably helped the game even before it was on that forum. It just seems disrespectful. Better to be told no right at the start than later on. Imagine if you have worked on the project, it was accepted and your sounds were a part of the game. However, after 4 months, you are told sorry, but the majority of our players don't really like the theme of your sounds. It would feel bad, the same way it would feel bad to people who have contributed sounds for probably 2 or more years. Just to be 100 percent clear, I'm not only blaming Jayde for this, it just so happens that Jayde is the only member of the staff actively discussing this with us, so naturally he is getting more blame than anyone else, in addition to the fact he was the one who started pushing for the stricter enforcement of the rule, so people don't have anyone else to blame. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531820/#p531820 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I only have a couple things to say. As far as I'm concerned the project is over. Sorry to the people that paid for sounds but to be fare, you should have gotten Pragma's blessing before that, which is exactly why I held off my self.I'm proud of everyone that tried to step up though. And I hope that in the future we might have the chance to help out for real.1. Jade can't be blamed for the mistakes of the past. He wasn't the one who let games with pirated sounds slide, and he can't be expected to recognize all of the stolen sounds by ear or have played every game in the database either. Even if you disagree with the need for doing this, you can't forget that it wasn't just him that decided, it was the whole mod team, so blame them all equally.2. Pragma has multiple communities to think about, not just this one, and while we may be a large portion of the players, it's only a subsection of us that even felt this was necessary. Even if he had agreed to doing a separate soundpack and having us do most of the work, the already almost insurmountable task of finding, editing, and retranslating all of those sounds would have been made doubly as hard by the requirement for them to sync up with the existing soundpack in time and volume. Chances were already high that this project wouldn't be scene to it's conclusion anyway.3. Reporting CP to Nintendo (a famously petty company when it comes to copyright) just to prove a point is a fucked up thing to do to someone else's work and all the players who enjoy it, especially considering that person isn't making any money off of that work. Seems like a good way to shoot your own community in the back while sacrificing a valuable part of it, for a reason that, a month down the line will probably ring pretty hollow in the justification department. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531812/#p531812 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing lol if everyone is reporting copyright materials then most of the modern audio games we have today shoud be on that list. as many of those sounds were most likely extracted by illegal means. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531803/#p531803 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I'm posting this in both topics to further Jayde's point. I know I had a conflicted view on this before, but I think I understand things a bit more clearly now. Do you guys remember This topic about a game I made using the Sonus GDE? If you've got the time, go through all the sounds and listen to them. Each and every sound in that game is created by me. For the robot speaking, I wrote the text in Balabolka using Robosoft 2 and saved it as an ogg file, so technically I did create those sounds myself. My point behind this is that you really don't need to use the sounds that everyone else is using to make a good game. The fact that you don't have sound effects created in a studio and can't afford to obtain them legally should not affect your ability to make a good game. Crazy Party has no excuses, especially considering how the community was ready to pitch in and help make the game more legal. In fact, it seems as if only a loud-mouthed 10% of the current player base would actually stop playing the game if the sounds were changed. If I'm being honest with you, those people wouldn't be worth it, given how they're probably the same people who rage quit in the middle of a game just because they're not getting their way or because you're trying to talk to them, or they join other peoples games just to troll. Digressing, there was no reason why the sounds could not have been replaced. Quite honestly, I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed that Pragma seemed to not care about the fact that this game could be banned from AGNet, and I'm especially disappointed that he said no even after people spent money to try to bring this project to life. At the end of the day, it's his game and he has full control over whatever he decides to do. Even so, I'm disappointed in him. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531800/#p531800 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I'm not one to argue. But if anything, this post did serve a purpose I think. OP, I'm glad you started this but not for the reasons one may think. It's a shame, really, since I know you were trying to do a good thing here. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531773/#p531773 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing You have one point that I'll acknowledge. You would not be responsible for the issue that causes a game to be problematic in the first place. Obviously, copyrighted assets are not your fault, and a user should not be blamed if they report another user for breaking a rule.What I'm saying is that I don't think you'd be reporting other games in good faith. You're not doing it because you actually care that game A broke rule 3; you'd be doing it because your game broke a rule and got called on it. Spin it how you want, but that's the behaviour I wanted to flag for other users.The "loophole" in rule 3 is not a loophole, and it's not about me.First, I've seen other admins besides myself nail copyright stuff that I didn't catch or didn't get to, so please don't make this about me and about my personal crusade. This is a forum protection issue, and I wasn't the only one to suggest rule 3. If you want the truth, I wasn't even the first, but once I realized the potential mess that could result if we didn't clean things up, I came on board with it. Stop the personal targeting. I'm loud, but that's because I'm one of the more vocal members of the staff team in the first place. I suspected I would be even when I came into the job in 2018.Secondly, pretty much from the get-go, we've been of the opinion that while copyright is important, it's really not within our scope right now - especially not at the moment - to go plugging through all games to winnow out copyrighted assets. You really need to get a firm grasp on the concept of plausible deniability. This database is really big, and our admin base is really small, and the number of people who have used stuff they shouldn't have is probably bigger than any of us would care to admit. We have a responsibility to act on what we know, in my opinion, and to make reasonable efforts to stay abreast of what is breaking our rules. I do think this means a slow and systematic examination of the database, yes, so if you want to help, in the spirit of truly aiding us? Go for it. What it doesn't mean, however, is that when your chosen hobby-horse gets the spotlight, suddenly we're monstrous hypocrites for not axing seventy-seven games on the same day. If this even goes anywhere, it's going to take time, and we're going to be as fair and as gentle about it as we can be. Remember, throughout, that so far, the staff stance is actually to let CP slide; I don't personally agree with it, but I'm outvoted at the moment, so for now, none of you even have anything to worry about. Don't lose sight of that. The point is, however, that this is not a loophole. We've been operating on an "if we see it, we deal with it" basis, a reactionary platform, pretty much as long as I've known the forum. I don't see that changing anytime soon.The TL.DR of my last post in particular is that if you're going to throw other games under the bus after arguing how we shouldn't take CP away from the forum, you're doing it in bad faith and I am not afraid to call it like it is. What I'm not doing is blaming people for bringing legit issues to us because they truly want the issue fixed; that, in fact, is laudable, and I hope you generally continue to do that.I'm done here. This thread may as well be dead. Pragma has said no, so any sound dev seems pointless. This argument is circular, and I'm through justifying myself at this stage. Whatever will happen will happen. If you reply to my last points herein, I won't deign to respond unless a breach of rules is involved. Good day to you. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531746/#p531746 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing You have one point that I'll acknowledge. You would not be responsible for the issue that causes a game to be problematic in the first place. Obviously, copyrighted assets are not your fault, and a user should not be blamed if they report another user for breaking a rule.What I'm saying is that I don't think you'd be reporting other games in good faith. You're not doing it because you actually care that game A broke rule 3; you'd be doing it because your game broke a rule and got called on it. Spin it how you want, but that's the behaviour I wanted to flag for other users.The "loophole" in rule 3 is not a loophole, and it's not about me.First, I've seen other admins besides myself nail copyright stuff that I didn't catch or didn't get to, so please don't make this about me and about my personal crusade. This is a forum protection issue, and I wasn't the only one to suggest rule 3. If you want the truth, I wasn't even the first, but once I realized the potential mess that could result if we didn't clean things up, I came on board with it. Stop the personal targeting. I'm loud, but that's because I'm one of the more vocal members of the staff team in the first place. I suspected I would be even when I came into the job in 2018.Secondly, pretty much from the get-go, we've been of the opinion that while copyright is important, it's really not within our scope right now - especially not at the moment - to go plugging through all games to winnow out copyrighted assets. You really need to get a firm grasp on the concept of plausible deniability. This database is really big, and our admin base is really small, and the number of people who have used stuff they shouldn't have is probably bigger than any of us would care to admit. We have a responsibility to act on what we know, in my opinion, and to make reasonable efforts to stay abreast of what is breaking our rules. I do think this means a slow and systematic examination of the database, yes, so if you want to help, in the spirit of truly aiding us? Go for it. What it doesn't mean, however, is that when your chosen hobby-horse gets the spotlight, suddenly we're monstrous hypocrites for not axing seventy-seven games on the same day. If this even goes anywhere, it's going to take time, and we're going to be as fair and as gentle about it as we can be. Remember, throughout, that so far, the staff stance is actually to let CP slide; I don't personally agree with it, but I'm outvoted at the moment, so for now, none of you even have anything to worry about. Don't lose sight of that. The point is, however, that this is not a loophole. We've been operating on an "if we see it, we deal with it" basis, a reactionary platform, pretty much as long as I've known the forum. I don't see that changing anytime soon.The TL.DR of my last post in particular is that if you're going to throw other games under the bus after arguing how we shouldn't take CP away from the forum, you're doing it in bad faith and I am not afraid to call it like it is. What I'm not doing is blaming people for bringing legit issues to us because they truly want the issue fixed; that, in fact, is laudable, and I hope you generally continue to do that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531746/#p531746 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Sorry. The only reason I was replying here is because pretty much everybody feels that there is nothing else to contribute to the current topic. I won't be discussing this anymore though as whether this is true or not you are completely right. Good luck. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531745/#p531745 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing The arguing in this topic doesn't belong here. Take it else where. There is a topic in the site and forum feedback room currently discussing these matters. This topic is specifically for those who are in support to remaster crazy party's sound design. If you are not here to help, whether you agree with the idea or not, please leave. If you choose not to, I will just ignore the post. I don't care which side you are on, you aren't contributing to the topic. And I hope all the other supporters on this topic make the same decision to ignore as well. I will say it one last time. We don't know the outcome, unless there is an alternative outcome to have. If you want to fight, do it here:https://forum.audiogames.net/topic/3462 … the-forum/ URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531744/#p531744 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Ah, right, so that is how it's going to work. Of course I like Crazy party and that's why I said that. I of course hate all the other audiogames so as a result will report anything else copyrighted. More seriously, sorry, I didn't know we were supposed to accept that a loophole exists in the rule 3 and that if we don't talk about those things anymore it will be fine and stay as it is. However, I rather think you should make up your mind and think what you want to do, then decide and let the forum know. Is it going to be we are dealing with everything, or we are dealing with what Jayde randomly finds and a game he randomly decides to check tomorrow evening? Because that's not how a rule that should be taken seriously works. Of course, it is perfectly unreasonable that you should check the entire database in one go and immediately recognise every single copyrighted sound in a game. But to me this already started to make no sense at all with your last post. And sorry, but I am going to take 0 responsibility for this. What are we doing wrong exactly? Respecting the rule that you are trying to enforce? Let's put it this way. If I report a user who broke rule X, and the user gets banned for that, is it my fault that he was banned or his fault for breaking the rule in the firstplace? Equally by the same logic, if I report a game X for using something that the developer has no rights to use, is that my fault? You know perfectly well it isn't. But keep trying to spin it in whatever way you'd like, we are all used to that already. It is only you to blame and nobody else. You are insisting on the rule, you are as you admit yourself being the loudest about it. For now, the only thing that remains is for all of us to hope that as many audiogames as possible will slip through your radar and it will all be fine. Because whether a game will continue being here depends only on that. This is only unfair and creates a general mess for any developer wanting to release a game right now. I'm only waiting for the moment when people will start to complain how game X was removed, but Y wasn't, and it's bound to happen. Are we then to blame the developer of the game X when the game Y gets removed after the complaint?For the record, just like your posts about Nintendo and reporting CP were hypothetical and were there only to proove a point, same goes for my reporting. If I said yesterday that reporting a developer is the most pathetic thing to do and that I would never do it, my opinion doesn't change overnight. Noone will surely be reported for breaking a nonsensical rule that even you can't properly enforce. In the end, we will see how this turns out. It is my hope that the database editors will do the right thing and continue adding games which are accessible, and not remove stuff that was fine for years. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531739/#p531739 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing You know how sometimes we pounce on a particular breach of copyright right away, while others slide under the radar for awhile? This goes for games and copyrighted assets, VM stuff, audio description, etc. If we see it, we do something about it, but we are not making an active effort to comb through absolutely everything to retroactively update it.That's what has been happening, and will continue to happen.If you want to alert us to known issues of pirated assets, you are forcing those examples into the spotlight. In other words, you are 1. making our lives harder (which is fine, by the way) and 2. also alerting us to potential copyright and piracy-related transgressions. Basically, for every game or asset that's gone unexamined before now that you bring to us, you will be partially responsible when and if we have to stop supporting it. You'll try and blame it on us, but the reality is that if you hadn't gone and dug it up, we might not have bothered processing it. Take Jim Kitchen's stuff, for example; the man has died, and there is no way that he can update his own work, so there is no chance of him being in any way able to comply with a request to update his audio assets.Nidza07, you want to make us look like horrible people for processing hundreds of audio games or whatnot, but if you do what you say you're going to, then it will be you who shares equal responsibility. After all, the forum has historically taken a "don't ask, don't tell" stance on such things, particularly in free titles. If you don't tell us about it, or it isn't super obvious, then we probably don't care yet, and if bad stuff ends up happening (as truly unlikely as that is, I admit) there is plausible deniability. We did not know that resource x had copyrighted assets in it because nobody told us and it is beyond the scope of a small handful of people to process every single game in such a huge database.I'm going to say this with no bark on it, so to speak.If someone reading this legitimately wants to help us clean up copyright issues, that's cool. It's a huge task, it's not something I enjoy doing, but if we want to maintain rule 3, it's something we can't just indefinitely ignore.However, in your case, Nidza07, as well as at least one other person I could name but for now will not, you're clearly not doing this because you want to help the community. You're basically saying that if a game you like gets trashed, then other games should get trashed as well. Not because you actually believe it should happen, but because you can't stand that your game of choice contains literally hundreds of pirated assets and stands so clearly in the spotlight. It's not good will, it's vengeance. And vengeance is no way to try and assist a community. I know a temper tantrum when I see it, bro, and this "I'm going to report everything, see how you like that" definitely counts, because you don't agree with copyright and you don't agree with our support of rule 3.Again, you're trying to bluff. I just want it out here, understood loud and clear, that if you start this process, you're partially responsible for it. If you force us to escalate, then no one is going to pass the buck and blame us.Because the alternative is a free-for-all where copyright is just a suggestion, and owner rights really don't matter unless someone arbitrarily decides they matter. And no, we are not going back to that.So if you want to up the ante, go ahead. But I, for one, won't feel a need to take all the blame for what happens as a result, because every new thing you force us to deal with, instead of letting us stumble onto it on our own, is one more thing the community may lose, in part because of a dev who used copyrighted assets and in part because of you, who couldn't leave an admittedly imperfect system alone and had to try and play for all or nothing.A quick edit, because I just thought of this: even if someone tried to report Jim Kitchen's games, I doubt that would go anywhere. They're just sort of floating around, and the creator is dead. Even if a company got hold of this and didn't like what he did, they're going to have a really difficult time prosecuting a dead man, and knowing this, I don't see them wanting to bother. CP and KitchensInc are in totally different ballparks. And no, that doesn't make using copyrighted sounds okay, but it also doesn't mean they're totally equal either. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531734/#p531734 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing You know how sometimes we pounce on a particular breach of copyright right away, while others slide under the radar for awhile? This goes for games and copyrighted assets, VM stuff, audio description, etc. If we see it, we do something about it, but we are not making an active effort to comb through absolutely everything to retroactively update it.That's what has been happening, and will continue to happen.If you want to alert us to known issues of pirated assets, you are forcing those examples into the spotlight. In other words, you are 1. making our lives harder (which is fine, by the way) and 2. also alerting us to potential copyright and piracy-related transgressions. Basically, for every game or asset that's gone unexamined before now that you bring to us, you will be partially responsible when and if we have to stop supporting it. You'll try and blame it on us, but the reality is that if you hadn't gone and dug it up, we might not have bothered processing it. Take Jim Kitchen's stuff, for example; the man has died, and there is no way that he can update his own work, so there is no chance of him being in any way able to comply with a request to update his audio assets.Nidza07, you want to make us look like horrible people for processing hundreds of audio games or whatnot, but if you do what you say you're going to, then it will be you who shares equal responsibility. After all, the forum has historically taken a "don't ask, don't tell" stance on such things, particularly in free titles. If you don't tell us about it, or it isn't super obvious, then we probably don't care, and if bad stuff ends up happening (as truly unlikely as that is, I admit) there is plausible deniability. We did not know that resource x had copyrighted assets in it because nobody told us and it is beyond the scope of a small handful of people to process every single game in such a huge database.I'm going to say this with no bark on it, so to speak.If someone reading this legitimately wants to help us clean up copyright issues, that's cool. It's a huge task, it's not something I enjoy doing, but if we want to maintain rule 3, it's something we can't just indefinitely ignore.However, in your case, Nidza07, as well as at least one other person I could name but for now will not, you're clearly not doing this because you want to help the community. You're basically saying that if a game you like gets trashed, then other games should get trashed as well. Not because you actually believe it should happen, but because you can't stand that your game of choice contains literally hundreds of pirated assets and stands so clearly in the spotlight. It's not good will, it's vengeance. And vengeance is no way to try and assist a community. I know a temper tantrum when I see it, bro, and this "I'm going to report everything, see how you like that" definitely counts, because you don't agree with copyright and you don't agree with our support of rule 3.Again, you're trying to bluff. I just want it out here, understood loud and clear, that if you start this process, you're partially responsible for it. If you force us to escalate, then no one is going to pass the buck and blame us.Because the alternative is a free-for-all where copyright is just a suggestion, and owner rights really don't matter unless someone arbitrarily decides they matter. And no, we are not going back to that.So if you want to up the ante, go ahead. But I, for one, won't feel a need to take all the blame for what happens as a result, because every new thing you force us to deal with, instead of letting us stumble onto it on our own, is one more thing the community may lose, in part because of a dev who used copyrighted assets and in part because of you, who couldn't leave an admittedly imperfect system alone and had to try and play for all or nothing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531734/#p531734 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing this topic never seems to get old. I believe that its to late to change the sounds as it has been all put together, and pgagma said he wasnt gonna change it. If this project is persued, it would be a waste of time as no changes are gonna be maid. really think about it before you go and throw money around. the dev stands where he stands on his project. keep that in mind. and i don't think he is gonna make the option for changing sound pack with in the game. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531733/#p531733 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Back for two more things then I'll fly out for good. Liam's forum needs some love anyways:1. There are 761 games in the AG data base as of now (counting the web based games along with audio games.)2. If you're gonna go after Crazy Party, go after Mush-Z for Alter Aeon as well.Yall know there's Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy Music in there right? Not even sure why yall even have a DB entry for it now that I think of it...I would love to read what the devs of the major AG companies would say if they saw this "craziness" (pun intended.)Okay, off I go again... Good luck! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531725/#p531725 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Well then, this is a nice mess we have all found Ourselves in. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531729/#p531729 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Pragma is the only one doing a good job defending his side. The rest of you trying to defend his side are sucking at it. So even though your side has potentially good arguements to be made, pragma is the only one making me stop and think. However my position has not changed yet URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531728/#p531728 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Back for two more things then I'll fly out for good. Liam's forum needs some love anyways:1. There are 761 games in the AG data base as of now (counting the web based games along with audio games.)2. If you're gonna go after Crazy Party, go after Mush-Z for Alter Aeon as well.Yall know there's Kingdom Hearts and Fighting Fantasy Music in there right? Not even sure why yall even have a DB entry for it now that I think of it...I would love to read what the devs of the major AG companies would say if they saw this "craziness" (pun intended.)Okay, off I go again... Good luck! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531725/#p531725 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Not fun, but certainly what you deserve. That's how respecting copyrights works. You want it to be easy don't you? Too late to think about winning and losing. You honestly think it will stop once you deal with CP? Because I will certainly tell you it won't. I will definitely be one of the members requesting the exact same treatement to all the other games in the database, nevermind if it is one or 100 sounds. Guess what? The database of games would substantially decrease. I already managed to bring more than 5 examples just at the top of the head, and going through the database you will certainly find a lot more. Once you deal with one, you are required to equally deal with all games. So good luck. Fun isn't it? Thanks for attempting to make a decision that will potentially destroy the work of building the largest database of audiogames on the Internet, the work that was going on for years just because of a potential issue that never happened, but it might now. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531720/#p531720 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing oh yeah what about Jim Kitchen, ? all of the peaple who playd it agree's with me, its filld with coppy writed sounds, and also youtubers when play/stream it try's there best to make it play as les music as pocible URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531718/#p531718 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing so with that being said, shouldn't yall admins go through "every, single, game" in this data base, and look to see if there are copyrighted sounds? GMA Games, PCS, Light Tech Interactive, Jim Kitchen, SwampAprone, USA Games, ESP Softworks/Adora/Draconis Entertainment, Jim Kitchen, Drive from Audio Games proper, BPC Programs, DreamTech Interactive, BSC Games, ... Yall get the idea.Me wonders if this forum needs a history clean up or something... Or the site in general.I am Trenton Matthews, those above are my thoughts, I shall log out now.Good luck. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531717/#p531717 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Carter has already come in here saying that it might be worthwhile to consider reporting CP to Nintendo. This, again, does not mean any decision is being made, so don't take it as such, but I am not the only one who cares about this. I just happen to be the loudest.But you have yourself to thank for this, not me. You toss this game in our faces every time any other copyright issue comes up. You and others, of course; you aren't alone. So in the interest of minimizing hypocrisy, it makes sense that something has to be done. Because if we do something, we're horrible for removing CP or threatening it or whatever. And if we don't, then we're horrible hypocrites who are using personal bias to make decisions. It's lose-lose. Isn't that fun? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531714/#p531714 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Somehow I doubt the database editors will agree to this stupidity, but let's wait and see. In fact, I would say that nobody not named Jayde thinks this is necessary. I don't care either way. If you feel like that is the right thing to do, remove the game from here indeed. But I would like to ask one thing, since this is really curious right now. Sharing decks is fine, but you would ask that the save files be passed privately? What is the logic behind that? So long, old audiogames forum, where you felt free to release a new game. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531710/#p531710 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Unfortunately, if Pragma's not moving on this, then doing the sound work seems kind of pointless now. Obviously I can't stop people and don't want to discourage them. I just don't see a point.Meatbag, just a quick heads-up: casting shade on something and then refusing to try and prove it is a pretty slimy thing to do. It's like, "Hey, take a look at this maybe suspicious thing. Why is it suspicious? Well it may not be but you should look anyway because...well because I said so". No, no, and no. Do you have any indication that Manamon or Manamon 2 have copyrighted assets to which Aaron Baker has no distributive rights? If so, feel free to bring them up. If not, all you're really doing is trying to make Aaron Baker look bad, or take some of the heat off CP, neither of which is helpful. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531707/#p531707 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing This is true. Whether the work is stopped or continued, I feel this topic has given the community a lot to think about. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531708/#p531708 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing This is true. Rather the work is stopped or continued, I feel this topic has given the community a lot to think about. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531708/#p531708 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Unfortunately, if Pragma's not moving on this, then doing the sound work seems kind of pointless now. Obviously I can't stop people and don't want to discourage them. I just don't see a point. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531707/#p531707 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I could keep talking about that, but I feel that my english skills are not enough to express what I want to say properly now, and were going nowhere, so lets, again, come back to the post's original topic, whitch at this moment, if I'm understanding correctly, is that people decided to do the sound work anyway URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531704/#p531704 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing @meatbagIf the game is using copyrighted stuff illegally that they have no right to use, making the game paid is a crime because they have no rights to do so. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531703/#p531703 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing @meatbagIf the game is using copyrighted stuff illegally that they have no right to use, making the game paid is a crime because they have no rights to make money off of the assets being used illegally. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531703/#p531703 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing i'm not aquzeing anyone, I sed to keap manamon in mind, not remove it, and eavin if I sed is true I cant proof my self since I dont know about the song names, and how is making a game paid a crime? that does'nt make sense... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531702/#p531702 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Meatbag, you have still not proven your stance. If Aaron Baker was using copyrighted material illegally then simply charging money for the game is a crime and you are accusing him of doing so. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531699/#p531699 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Again, Meatbag, if you have proof, I'm all ears. You're quite right, of course; just claiming you have permission doesn't actually mean that you have the right to use the asset, especially if it's a paid product you're spreading about.I say it's a slap in the face because what it's literally saying is that the game's merit is not in its playability, it's in its sound design. But while the sound design is undeniably a part of the appeal, I have trouble believing that the -primary reason - that word primary is important, take note, please - that people play CP is for its sound design. If it had terrible mini-games or battle cards, it wouldn't work. If its connectivity was bad, it wouldn't fly. No. It works because it gets players to compete against each other, or in some cases team up with each other. It works because it plays to both the card-battle and Mario Party aesthetic. The sound design is cool, but it's extra. You could remove it, replace it with something else, and CP would still be a very good game. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531701/#p531701 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Meatbag, you have still not proved your stance. If Aaron Baker was using copyrighted material illegally then simply charging money for the game is a crime and you are accusing him of such. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531699/#p531699 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing crediting something does not allow someone to use it as they wish with out buying, lets say, you made a song that's paid, and I come and get it for free, i'll credit you just to make peaple thing its leagle, does it really leagle? not URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531697/#p531697 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing no, it is not a slap, because that escence was made intentionally, pragma is a mario party fan. it is part of the game's escence since it's creation, because it was meant to be like that URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531695/#p531695 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Can you prove that Manamon has stolen those songs? It absolutely does have assets from various places, and the credits will list those places. But to my understanding, everything it's got was either made in house, paid for, or is legally allowed under some sort of use agreement.While I agree that copyrighted assets are never a good thing, I think the reason that CP comes under such heavy fire is because instead of talking about 2-3 assets, we're talking about literally hundreds. As in, the fair majority of its musical assets and probably a fair portion of its sound effects as well. That's pretty unprecedented. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531694/#p531694 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing then, i'm 100% sure that manamon has some coppy writed songs, making it paid wont proof anything, if you're gunna think of CP than put manamon in mind URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531689/#p531689 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I also repudiate utterly the notion that Crazy Party isn't Crazy Party without pirated assets. That's just silly.The game succeeds or fails based on its games, both battle and board. While I admit that the retro feel is cool and all, if your argument boils down to "it's not the same unless we have stolen sounds", then you're tacitly saying that the game isn't really even its own entity. That's a pretty big slap in the face to Pragma, honestly.If the game had had different but similarly retro sound and music from the start, are you trying to tell me it would have failed? Get real. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531688/#p531688 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Please bear in mind that no, this is not an ultimatum. I neither have the authority to issue such a thing, nor the desire to do so without a full staff consult first.What I am saying is that Pragma has decided that it is more important to him to maintain his game's pirated assets than to comply with this community's stance on copyright. Given that this community has been one of the ways that his game has achieved popularity, I personally have a bit of a problem with this stance, but he's free to maintain it if he wishes.That said, we have taken a firmer stance on anti-piracy in the last year or so, and one of the things constantly brought up is that stuff like Crazy Party has gotten a free pass. I'm getting mighty tired of this. You want other things to get a free pass, so you cite that Crazy Party still has community support as a means of saying that other stuff, like the vault, should also have community support. And when it is even gently suggested that we withdraw support for Crazy Party, everybody freaks out.Essentially, Crazy Party is your ace in the hole. It is the one thing you can invoke to try and prove hypocrisy, because you scream too loudly when we talk about not supporting it anymore. That's extremely convenient, and it needs to end because the argument isn't even an argument anymore. it's just a means by which you can supposedly prove incompetence or inconsistency.And you know what? You're right. It's inconsistent. That's what this thread was trying to address. That's why I advocated that we stop supporting the game until or unless it met our standards, which it currently does not. I would far rather see it meet reasonable standards than simply be blacklisted, but I think one or the other should happen, because now the developer has been told that the community would do virtually all of the work for him, and he still refuses.I feel that one of two things should happen at this stage:1. Before anything else, Crazy Party should be brought to the attention of the companies whose assets it is using, and proof of this communication should be provided so that there is no chance that someone simply makes a claim without actually following through. Sad as it is, I could see some folks claiming they contacted Nintendo, only for it later to come out that the supposed email had been a fake. This would, of course, serve as a no-risk means of satisfying this requirement, but under false pretenses, and we can't have that. If reasonable time goes by where these companies do not respond in any way, then the game will receive full community support until such time that definitive legal action is taken against it. In other words, if the big companies truly don't care, or see it as a media horrorshow, this would pretty much guarantee safety for the game in perpetuity and would silence all of the arguments about its legality. license holders would have had a reasonable chance to object and, having not taken it, we could simply continue as before.2. If this option is refused, and if Pragma insists on not allowing the game to have its copyrighted assets removed, then having been given ample chance to right the situation, Crazy Party should lose all audiogames.net community support until such time that its copyrighted assets are removed. This would mean that simply discussing the game is perfectly okay. Passing out links to decks, since they're just text files, would be okay. We'd probably ask you to share save files privately, and we'd ask you not to encourage people to play Crazy Party in public. We'd have to take the DB entry down, and we'd have to enforce rule 3 roughly the same way we're doing with the vault right now.This is my personal stance. I do not speak for the staff team at this point. For those of you asking why we can't just go back to the way it was, and continue providing an exception? Well, you have the folks who use CP as a scapegoat to thank for this. When we have legitimate grounds to remove support for something, I'm tired of having this thrown in our collective faces. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531684/#p531684 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Like I said, CP doesn't need audiogames.net anymore because it has its own fanbase (English Skype group with over 200 participants and many other non-English communities) so this is kinda like a radio station saying that they won't play a particular song anymore if the artist doesn't change its message, which would change the whole song and probably isn't worth it considering streaming services outweigh radio these days anyways. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531686/#p531686 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Like I said, CP doesn't need audiogames.net anymore because it has its own fanbase (English Skype group with over 200 participants and many other non-English communities) so this is kinda like a radio station saying that they won't play a particular song anymore if the artist doesn't change its message, which would change the whole song and probably isn't worth it considering streaming services outweigh radio anyways. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531686/#p531686 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Please bear in mind that no, this is not an ultimatum. I neither have the authority to issue such a thing, nor the desire to do so without a full staff consult first.What I am saying is that Pragma has decided that it is more important to him to maintain his game's pirated assets than to comply with this community's stance on copyright. Given that this community has been one of the ways that his game has achieved popularity, I personally have a bit of a problem with this stance, but he's free to maintain it if he wishes.That said, we have taken a firmer stance on anti-piracy in the last year or so, and one of the things constantly brought up is that stuff like Crazy Party has gotten a free pass. I'm getting mighty tired of this. You want other things to get a free pass, so you cite that Crazy Party still has community support as a means of saying that other stuff, like the vault, should also have community support. And when it is even gently suggested that we withdraw support for Crazy Party, everybody freaks out.Essentially, Crazy Party is your ace in the hole. It is the one thing you can invoke to try and prove hypocrisy, because you scream too loudly when we talk about not supporting it anymore. That's extremely convenient, and it needs to end because the argument isn't even an argument anymore. it's just a means by which you can supposedly prove incompetence or inconsistency.And you know what? You're right. It's inconsistent. That's what this thread was trying to address. That's why I advocated that we stop supporting the game until or unless it met our standards, which it currently does not. I would far rather see it meet reasonable standards than simply be blacklisted, but I think one or the other should happen, because now the developer has been told that the community would do virtually all of the work for him, and he still refuses.This is my personal stance. I do not speak for the staff team at this point. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531684/#p531684 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I have to agrea with firence herethe game is around for years, and now you remember that it should be removed?while I really want the sounds to be changed, but the dev dont wanted them to be and I cant do something as long as its not my game but, if it didint got removed in years, why now you thot about removing it URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531673/#p531673 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing he is giving the option, if the audiogames.net forum decides to do so. You are saying that if he don't agree to remaking the sounds all of that will happen. just leave things as they are just now, the game as been here for 4 years now, and what you're doing is conditionating him with agree with the sound change, or the game will be removed URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531669/#p531669 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Well, unfortunately this sounds as if Pragma would rather have audiogames.net stop supporting his game than have people update his sounds for him.What this would mean is that the game can no longer have a DB entry, can't be linked to, and when new betas come out, they can be talked about but, again, not linked to. Under rule 3, the game will become a lot like the vault. We can't stop you playing it, we can't stop you talking about it entirely, but we can enforce rule 3 if you're trying to encourage people to play it or download it.That is my understanding at present. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531661/#p531661 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Whoever said you need wayback machine to access the mods page,https://audiogames.net/page/modsthe only thing you need is to clikc the sitemap link and there it is. Granted, most links are broken, but Top speed cars seem to work. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531604/#p531604 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Hello!I can understand that Audiogames.net doesn't want to have legal problems due to a game in the database. However, if there isn't any direct download link, it shouldn't be possible for a company to do something against Audiogames.net. It would be just like Wikipedia for example, you can find a presentation of The Pirate Bay or any other website known for its illegal contents, but Wikipedia doesn't have legal problems for its presentation.In addition of the fact that this legal risk is pretty hypothetic, I don't think I'm going to change CP just because of the legal safety of Audiogames.net. Crazy Party doesn't represent the community of the audiogames' players. It's even not a constructed project with a plan or a roadmap. The game is rather developped in a random way, just for fun. It could be compare to a game made with tools like Mugen or RPG Maker, or to a ROM hack. These communities generally doesn't have any problem.So, as I said, I don't think I'm going to change the sounds of CP. I'm sorry for those who have started to collect sounds, maybe they might start to think of making a new audiogame project? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531603/#p531603 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Well in the skype group, he basically said that he doesn't see the point to changing them. So to those who were getting involved in this, better stop before you waste more money and time. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531587/#p531587 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Adding to what Connor said above, I requote part of post 65 (which also was a post of mine):If Crazy Party updates for the original version will not be posted to this forum anymore, I would suggest either a Twitter or GNU Social page, for sharing updates. (Or similar platform that is popular enough for most countries.)So um... Yah, it's all up to Pragma now... PS. At least we now know why the "Game Mods" section of the Audio Games web site doesn't exist anymore...(Link above is thanks to the Way Back Machine. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531581/#p531581 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Adding to what Connor said above, I requote part of post 65 (which also was a post of mine):If Crazy Party updates for the original version will not be posted to this forum anymore, I would suggest either a Twitter or GNU Social page, for sharing updates. (Or similar platform that is popular enough for most countries.)So um... Yah, it's all up to Pragma now... PS. At least we now know why the "Game Mods" section of the Audio Games web site doesn't exist anymore... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531581/#p531581 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Adding to what Connor said above, I requote part of post 65 (which also was a post of mine):If Crazy Party updates for the original version will not be posted to this forum anymore, I would suggest either a Twitter or GNU Social page, for sharing updates. (Or similar platform that is popular enough for most countries.)So um... Yah, it's all up to Pragma now... PS. At least we now know why the "Game Mods" section of the Audio Games web site doesn't exist anymore... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531581/#p531581 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing And what purpose will this serve? Ultimately, it's up the devs whether they want to add in the new sounds or not. What if Pragma decides not to? All that work down the toilet. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531553/#p531553 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing It’s official. project continues. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531507/#p531507 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I'm behind 90 on this one. Let's go. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531477/#p531477 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing @89 you're right. You aren't the group. I am the one in charge! Lol no. Serious face, I payed 30 dollars to do this project, so I'm encouraging we continue it. Also I also believe finishing it may turn out different results. I mean right now, no one is pressured, because this is a ridiculous idea. But if we actually go through with it, we will see people's true thoughts and attitudes. Also if we do continue and gives updates here, we could gain more supporters as the project is actually going somewhere. I do know 100% for a fact that there will not be 2 different sounds packs active for c\CP at once. Because they want to make it completely fair for everybody. Having different sounds for different people gives some an advantage, like a sound looping faster or being louder. We have people that are willing to do this, and we never know the outcome unless there is an alternate one to consider. No one can take this seriously yet, we can change that. let's go! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531474/#p531474 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Heh, modernize the ancient forum software first and then talk about modernizing the community...But anyway I digress.See the problem is that you can't just have 2 separate versions to download, it isn't as simple as that. The reason why sound modifications of any kind aren't allowed is quite simple, and it is due to the online play. So imagine we are playing, you are using the audiogames legal version and I am using the official download. Now, let's focus on battles, since that's where the issue is most noticeable, though there are a few cases in minigames too. Let's imagine you play normalisation, and your normalisation sound lasts 2 seconds, while mine lasts 5. You will have 3 seconds of a sinchronisation issue during which the game won't be doing anything, and the one with the shorter sound will always think that the game is buggy and doesn't work right. In addition to this, it gets quite annoying if such sound differences add up too much. The only solution is if this was a specific version and then only audiogames download can play against each other, but this is in my opinion already very limitting and is already putting me off downloading it in the first place, knowing that I won't be playing any other user who isn't on this forum. In my opinion too much trouble for little benefit. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531471/#p531471 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I can understand his reluctance to radically change the main game on a hunch. Maybe ask him if we could have a separate download with remade sounds then. It would be the communities responsibility to keep it updated, and that's the one that would be linked to on ag.net.If he needs it mirrored, I'm sure a couple people would volunteer their server space as long as their were reasonable limits on download speed and concurrent requests. Otherwise, it can be hosted on a traffic friendly cloud platform such as Sync, one drive, or google drive, with an account just for that purpose. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531466/#p531466 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I personally lean more towards the former option, continue, than the latter. But that's just me, and I'm not the entire group working on the thing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531467/#p531467 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I can understand his reluctance to radically change the main game on a hunch. Maybe ask him if we could have a separate download with remade sounds then. It would be the communities responsibility to keep it updated, and that's the one that would be linked to on ag.net.If he needs it mirrored, I'm sure a couple people would volunteer their server space as long as their were reasonable limits on download speed and concurrent requests. Otherwise, it can be hosted on a traffic friendly cloud platform such as Sync, one drive, or google drive, with an account just for that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531466/#p531466 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I can understand his reluctance. Maybe ask him if we could have a separate download with remade sounds then. It would be the communities responsibility to keep it updated, and that's the one that would be linked too on ag.net.If he needs it mirrored, I'm sure a couple people would volunteer their server space as long as their were reasonable limits on download speed and concurrent requests. Otherwise, it can be hosted on a traffic friendly cloud platform such as Sync, one drive, or google drive, with an account just for that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531466/#p531466 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I can understand his reluctance. Maybe ask him if we could have a separate download with remade sounds then. It would be the communities responsibility to keep it updated, and that's the one that would be linked too on ag.net.If he needs it mirrored, I'm sure a couple people would volunteer their server space as long as their were reasonable limits on download speed and concurrent requests. Otherwise, it can be hosted on a traffic friendly cloud platform such as Sync, one drive, or google drive. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531466/#p531466 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing After seeing 85, I think it might be more worth while. In addition to the time difference between now and this project's completion, a part of modernizing and mainstreaming the audiogames community is bringing things up to legal code. Eventually, people are going to take notice of our little corner of the world. In fact, they must if we want accessibility to be more than that thing that some sabre rattling minority rattles over. If we want to be taken seriously, we must modernize. That means sacrifice. At least if this gets done, we can lessen the blow of the inevitable. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531464/#p531464 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I did write a reply to this but deleted it, just in case anyone saw it, it was written before defender's reply and since I fully agree with him I didn't want this to continue any longer. I don't think there is anything else to say regarding the original topic, but if someone else has anything to add, the topic should now return to it's original purpose.I have one suggestion in fact. Maybe you guys should not cancel this project. Maybe what we should be doing is designing an alternative soundpack for the game. This pack won't be used in the game, but why not keep it just in case something goes wrong and the sounds do need to change due to somehow the game being taken down? So as a sort of backup, alternative pack for Crazy party that might never be used, but perhaps it can be useful at a certain point in case CP gets into trouble. People working on this in this case should of course understand that they are doing it purely for their own enjoyment and that the pack might never be in the game, but if an issue arises they will know they have contributed a part in keeping CP safe. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531457/#p531457 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Just now saw post 83. Part of me wants to go Forward, the other part wonders if it would be a complete waste of time. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531458/#p531458 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing What are we going to do though? We’ve become completely sidetracked from the issue at hand. Pragma is not really convinced and neither is one of the people who supplied some of the assets for him, now what? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531456/#p531456 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I think that raises an issue. Unless pragma is willing to allow us to do this, we really can't do much. To be frank, the dev team would have be willing to flip that switch. I suppose we could go forward and see what pragma's answer is after we complete the project, though. It would take a couple of months to do, after all. And things can change in a couple of months. Plus, it might give all of us practice in recreating a retro atmosphere. What do all of you think? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531455/#p531455 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I thinik that raises an issue. Unless pragma is willing to allow us to do this, we really can't do much. To be frank, the dev team would have be willing to flip that switch. I suppose we could go forward and see what pragma's answer is after we complete the project, though. It would take a couple of months to do, after all. And things can change in a couple of months. Plus, it might give all of us practice in recreating a retro atmosphere. What do all of you think? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531455/#p531455 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing You know what, Defender? You're absolutely right.I tried to let this get back on topic, but did not react well afterword. That much I'll fully own, and I'm sorry. Carry on. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531453/#p531453 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing @Jayde, I just did it. Now what? XD URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531451/#p531451 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Hey guys? Can you take your dumb arguing in circles and proposing conceptual theories shit off the topic where we're actually supposed to be helping to fix the problem? Thanks! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531447/#p531447 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I'm sorry for not possessing the requisite telepathy or telemetry necessary for me to realize that your windows don't open. I didn't mean to exclude people in your predicament, since I'm sure that yelling that you're a hemophilic is something you would otherwise be potentially willing to do. Heh. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531442/#p531442 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Now Jayde. The reason I won't be yelling "I'm a hemophiliac!" out my window is because my windows don't open, and I am hurt and offended that you thought I would have any other reason for not doing so. LOL!!! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531440/#p531440 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing One quick point, though:Do you understand the concept of a thought experiment?Because that's pretty much what this was.People were bound and determined that big companies don't care, but in a hypothetical scenario, when challenged to defend that position, they said it's not worth the risk. To say it isn't worth the risk implies that there -is a risk to begin with.If I challenge you right now to open the nearest window and yell "I'm a hemophiliac!" many people won't bother, but they won't be refusing because they're afraid of harm. They'll be refusing because it's silly, or because they just flat can't be bothered. Know why? Because while yelling "I'm a hemophiliac!" out your window might draw stares and make you sound weird, it also won't constitute a threatening action of any kind. It is a zero-risk action, so refusal will not be based on an assessment of reprisal.Your reaction to my fictitious proposal to report CP to Nintendo, even after I proposed it as an experiment, exposed that there is, in fact, a risk in doing so. In fact, I'd even argue that your vehemence on the subject suggests that you know damn well that the risk is bigger than perhaps you'd like to credit, but it's easier to maintain the fiction that big companies don't care than it is to test that theory. It does not mean I wish to do it (in fact, did I not say that I'd prefer not to?). It does not state that I think it's best. So all your talk of how I'm risking the community for one game just tells me that you missed the point entirely. You were so focused on how dangerous and awful and self-centered and whatever else my actions would be that you failed to note that I have not acted, and do not intend to act, in this capacity at all.Basic psychology at its best. Thank you for demonstrating the efficacy of thought experiments. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531430/#p531430 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I don't think Nintendo would really care about it, but does that mean I'm going to report it? No, because if you get a vindictive agent that reads that report, the game could be fucked. I do believe though that in that scenario, if the media got hold of a story of Nintendo trying to ruin a small audiogame dev, they would run with it and it would not be pretty. But at the end of the day it doesn't really matter either way. CP doesn't even need audiogames.net at this point. It has an established playerbase already, so I think it could be taken down and it wouldn't matter because Pragma obviously isn't in it for professional gain, so it's not like he would lose any money from this. So instead of abiding by Jayde and reporting it just to prove one point or the other, it can just be taken off of the audiogames forum, assuming Pragma is okay with this. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531427/#p531427 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Good, you won, now you can move on from it too.Jees. So hard to understand that reporting a developer is the most pathetic thing you can do regardless of the outcome of the report. It would be like me saying hey Jayde, can I report the audiogames.net website now for allowing these games so we can test if these companies really care about it or not? Then we can know how these rules work and whether we need them in place. But I do not plan to risk anything nor to cause any trouble to a great community which has a huge legacy behind it, so I will surely not attempt anything stupid like that. It does not mean that I personally think big companies care, it means only that I find the act of trying to do anything potentially harmful to a developer disgusting. It's no better than stealing sources or making clones. Even if it's a 0.1 percent risk as I said, no risk should be there. Noone playing audiogames should feel like we should test this theory on a random game we choose and see how it works out. The argument ends here for me, hopefully noone will ruin any game and we can continue playing as we always did. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531425/#p531425 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Nidza07, if you can't be bothered because there's a teeny tiny chance that Nintendo will care, then you are tacitly admitting that big companies sometimes do care about what we get up to. Thank you. You've just proven my point for me. By acknowledging that there's a chance a big cashed-up corporation could cause a lot of headaches for someone who doesn't mean harm, you are accepting indirectly that the "they don't care" argument is busted. Just move on from it. That's my best advice. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531420/#p531420 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Yeah, no thanks, not in the boat of reporting a developer to proove a point. You can feel free to do that, but don't be surprised if we never see the game in English again. I'm sure the French side was perfectly happy with the game and didn't bring non existing issues. If prooving a point on the audiogames.net forum is worth a risk, go ahead, but as I said, make sure you do it to other developers I have listed as well, and countless others you will no doubt find in the audiogames archive. It's a pathetic thing to do in my opinion, and is exactly the reason why we do not deserve free games. Nevermind the outcome of the report, positive or negative. Seeing that there are people supporting this however, that's even worse. @Amerikranian, you have a game using those assets, so make sure you report yourself too while we are at it. I agree fully with the option 2 however, as that is the most sensible thing to do. That is what everyone should be trying in my opinion. I also agree with the option 3, but I most certainly won't be the one to do that, both because I don't have technical equipment to do it and because I feel there are much more capable people for this job. I do hope however that it will eventually be done. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531419/#p531419 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing joining this one later than I'd like. As an occasional CP dev, I don't honestly feel as if my report would be welcome or really justified, plus it'd raise quite a few strange looks and questions along the way. That having been said I would back the effort, assuming of course the explanation was fairly written and drafted to the community beforehand.nidza07 and others who echo the sentiment, I know there are quite a few. As far as I see it, you have a couple options.1. Report the game. You're 100% sure? Great. Why not use the certainty to prove a point.In truth, anyone using unauthorized material runs that risk from the get go. Probably not something they think about every day, but a byproduct nonetheless. I've seen devs reported for less.In my admittedly uneducated evaluation, I find it hard to imagine them going after us in full force. They have bigger fish to fry than a game with a constant playerbase of around a hundred players. It simply isn't practical when larger projects have gotten off scot-free. Not to say they wouldn't care, I think they care, just not enough to pursue it in all likelyhood. Again, my uneducated opinion. Assuming I'm dead wrong, we'd have to remove it from the forum and development may halt for a bit, until new assets are created as was the original intention of this thread. The game would continue to be played though and that won't ever change.2. Contact the site owners. At the end of the day, they are the ones paying for the domain, thus the ones who have ultimate authority here. If you have an issue with a rule admins have put in place, do the logical thing. Take your concern to someone higher up on the chain. I can't honestly say one way or another whether you can count on receiving a response, those guys are quite busy, but at least you can say you tried.3. Create a new forum where this sort of thing is tolerated. Find capable admins and some how move the user base from one to the other. I won't hold my breath as none have managed to last any more than a couple months, including Liam's which some swore would be around for years to come. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531417/#p531417 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing joining this one later than I'd like. As an occasional CP dev, I don't honestly feel as if my report would be welcome or really justified, plus it'd raise quite a few strange looks and questions along the way. That having been said I would back the effort, assuming of course the explanation was fairly written and drafted to the community beforehand.nidza07 and others who echo the sentiment, I know there are quite a few. As far as I see it, you have a couple options.1. Report the game. You're 100% sure? Great. Why not use the certainty to prove a point.In truth, anyone using unauthorized material runs that risk from the get go. Probably not something they think about every day, but a byproduct nonetheless. I've seen devs reported for less.In my admittedly uneducated evaluation, I find it hard to imagine them going after us in full force. They have bigger fish to fry than a game with a constant playerbase of around a hundred players. It simply isn't practical when larger games/devs have gotten off scot-free. Assuming I'm dead wrong, we'd have to remove it from the forum and development may halt for a bit, until new assets are created as was the original intention of this thread. The game would continue to be played though and that won't ever change.2. Contact the site owners. At the end of the day, they are the ones paying for the domain, thus the ones who have ultimate authority here. If you have an issue with a rule admins have put in place, do the logical thing. Take your concern to someone higher up on the chain. I can't honestly say one way or another whether you can count on receiving a response, those guys are quite busy, but at least you can say you tried.3. Create a new forum where this sort of thing is tolerated. Find capable admins and some how move the user base from one to the other. I won't hold my breath as none have managed to last any more than a couple months, including Liam's which some swore would be around for years to come. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531417/#p531417 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing We are walking in circles here.Side A: Large companies won't care if a game uses copyrighted sounds.Side B: You wana prove it to us?Side A: No, because they might care.See the issue here? Nitza, you just proved the point. The companymaycare about this. That is why the administrators behave like they do. Just because there is a 0.1% chance of an event occurring does not mean it won't happen. The moderators are trying to cover their bases here.As a side note, I would report this out of sheer curiosity, just to see who is right. I'm quite sick of the same arguments flying back and forth and would like for them to stop. Reporting will, in one way or another, put an end to this dispute and would at least switch the tune each side sings. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531415/#p531415 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing In reality, our argument is just as true as it always was. Nintendo would not care. There is a huge chance for them ignoring the report. You know why? Because they have much larger copyright issues to deal with all the time, larger than 1000 blind players playing Crazy party and making no money by doing that. It could also potentially bring them very, very bad publicity in media shutting down an audiogame which is doing them no harm. So no, I still stand by the opinion that they could not care less. I Have no reason to risk it to proove a point however, and no intentions of potentially destroying a great audiogame and an even greater developer just to proove a point, even if it is a 0.1 percent chance that it might go wrong. That is where the difference is, and that is where I believe you are taking the purpose of the forum wrongly. Our goal is to promote audiogames, not to proove that my point is right and yours is wrong. Because in the end you, me, or anyone else doesn't matter. The forum will continue to exist, new and even better games will hopefully be created, and new developers will hopefully keep coming. We are supposed to show them they are welcome, not that they have to make sure that in their game with 1000 sounds sound number 674 does not meet all copyright rights of a corporation making billions. This is even more the case with a free game, where a developer is doing all he can to provide a great game in his free time while making no money. Heck, CP does not even have a donation link, so literally Pragma earned 0 cents with Crazy party. Again, when you are making some money off your project, that's an entirely different story and then you have little excuse not to find some good sounds that fit your project. So being that when we were talking about audiovault, Mac VM, whatever else that you don't like you have been saying how our focus is audiogaming, then let's agree on that and drop this stupidity forever. Honestly, I am positively surprised at the way the situation was currently handled and that you have realized that the forum should have an exception for audiogames. However, lately this seems to be brought again as an issue, but as long as it stays the way it is I have nothing to argue about. If it doesn't however, no matter how you try to spin it, the people who say that the forum's purpose was destroyed were completely right. The purpose is promotion of audiogames, and that's the end of the story. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531410/#p531410 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Nidza07,Please go back and very, very carefully read my post.It is a challenge to those people who say that large companies don't care. It is manifestly -not me making a threat or claiming that I actually believe that large companies don't care. In fact, I feel that the opposite is true. My statement that I am willing to reach out to Nintendo is merely an indication that I would be willing to test the theory. That said, I would really rather not, and have no immediate intention of doing so. Given my anti-capitalist personal feelings, I hope that's clear enough for you.Because the likely outcome of this is that nobody will take this challenge because they know the truth. That very likely CP would bring at least some sort of trouble for Pragma if Nintendo got wind. I might be wrong, of course - that's true now, and it's true of anyone, anytime - but that's my view on it.My challenge was meant to silence the "big companies don't care" argument. Some care more than others, to be sure, but most companies don't like it when folks use hundreds of their copyrighted assets. It tends to upset them, and I think arguing otherwise is (yup, here it comes) an argument made in bad faith.Let me put this another way.I think most of you making that argument know damn well that Nintendo might cause Pragma some grief, so I thought it high time to call your bluff. It's really only that simple.The best thing, I think, is for us to generally accept that there's a strong likelihood that if word of CP hit the wrong ears, there might be trouble. Let's dispense with the fiction that big companies don't care. Even if I, personally, don't believe that they really should in a case like this. As has been pointed out, the measurable harm done by projects like this is minimal enough that trying to crush it might not be worthwhile, and might represent poor PR. Believe me, I hear that.Now, I recommend we bring this back to its intended topic. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531401/#p531401 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Nidza07,Please go back and very, very carefully read my post.It is a challenge to those people who say that large companies don't care. It is manifestly -not me making a threat or claiming that I actually believe that large companies don't care. In fact, I feel that the opposite is true. My statement that I am willing to reach out to Nintendo is merely an indication that I would be willing to test the theory. That said, I would really rather not, and have no immediate intention of doing so. Given my anti-capitalist personal feelings, I hope that's clear enough for you.Because the likely outcome of this is that nobody will take this challenge because they know the truth. That very likely CP would bring at least some sort of trouble for Pragma if Nintendo got wind. I might be wrong, of course - that's true now, and it's true of anyone, anytime - but that's my view on it.My challenge was meant to silence the "big companies don't care" argument. Some care more than others, to be sure, but most companies don't like it when folks use hundreds of their copyrighted assets. It tends to upset them, and I think arguing otherwise is (yup, here it comes) an argument made in bad faith.Let me put this another way.I think most of you making that argument know damn well that Nintendo might cause Pragma some grief, so I thought it high time to call your bluff. It's really only that simple.So stop trying to make this about me. Stop trying to claim that I'm killing the forum, because I'm clearly not. Stop trying to justify yourself at every turn, because I'm sorry, but it's really not working.Now, I recommend we bring this back to its intended topic. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531401/#p531401 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing So far, this hasn't happened. Once a paid game does this, then we can say no excuses, you should change your sounds. It looks unprofessional and stupid, but is only an assumption for now. 5 years ago isn't a lot different from now, and I would say not at all different in context of crazy party. Same assets then, same assets now. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531396/#p531396 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing 5 years ago is a lot different from now. On one side of the coin, the game was created way before this copyright crackdown started, but at the same time, that doesn't mean we should ignore the assets. I think we should encourage the dev to use legal assets. I guess we don't have any right to complain whether or not it happens with crazy party, because it is completely free. However, bad practices as well as good practices influence everything around it. If free games used cracked assets, it wouldn't be shocking to see them in a payed product. Because the devs on here are not business majors. They don't know the criteria for a free vs commercial game. Also this would extend to sound productions and music, not just audio games. Everything you do has influence, and it shows. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531394/#p531394 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Just one thing, time for someone to create a new forum. I'm getting tired of this. Jayde's last post is the best one he posted so far, and it totally shows he means no harm to any developer or to any game on here. We are an audio gaming forum, not a let's proove that big companies don't care forum. You can contact whoever you wish about CP, but before you go ahead and do that, I suggest you first go and contact other big companies too. Let's start to count here: Clash of lightsabers, totally violating Starwars copyrights. Jim Kitchen's games, a lot of copyrighted voice clips and sounds, yes please go ahead and destroy this amazing legacy of a guy who passed away for unknown reasons to anyone. The developers behind Final fantasy, for the soundtracks used in Sable alpha. Starting to get the point here? I'm sure Jayde isn't regardless so it isn't really important to him.Just a few hours ago people were joking in the Skype group how the only one who could bring this to Nintendo's attention was Jayde, and it was only pure sarcasm that noone believed as real, until I saw this last post. Speechless.Yes, I am 100 percent sure that they won't care. They won't care to bother looking up audiogames on their own, nor will they ever find our tiny little corner known as the audiogames forum. Noone in their right mind would care to risk destroying an audiogame whatever it is to proove a point, and possibly bringing a developer financial troubles for that. Or at least, that was my belief. That we are primarily supporting audiogame developers, not huge corporations. Never did I think a day would come where we would have to argue whether some huge company cares about our audiogame, and that someone will say let's contact them to proove a point. As I said, only leaves me speechless. Better remove CP than trying to proove your points please. At least it will finally cause someone to create another competing forum, and then we'll see how much support this one will be getting which you are successfully killing day by day. Not killing as in literally destroying it, but changing it's purpose. Warm greetings from me, and please respect copyright. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531388/#p531388 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Trenton here.Two things I wish to share:1. If Crazy Party updates for the original version will not be posted to this forum anymore, I would suggest either a Twitter or GNU Social page, for sharing updates. (Or similar platform that is popular enough for most countries.)2. You may have never heard of Self-made Island before... Feel free to go and take a look at said YouTube channel some time.Bonus:I wonder why no one went after GMA/PCS Games with the music copyright thing. Same goes for ESP Softworks.#JustSayingHave a good one folks.PS. Yes, PCS and GMA Games did credit the people for said music. Can't say if Crazy Party gave credit or not.Also, there were other Mario Brothers audio games before Crazy Party. Two other ones at least... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531377/#p531377 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Trenton here.Two things I wish to share:1. If Crazy Party updates for the original version will not be posted to this forum anymore, I would suggest either a Twitter or GNU Social page, for sharing updates. (Or similar platform that is popular enough for most countries.)2. You may have never heard of Self-made Island before... Feel free to go and take a look at said YouTube channel some time.Bonus:I wonder why no one went after GMA/PCS Games with the music copyright thing. Same goes for ESP Softworks.#JustSayingHave a good one folks.PS. Yes, PCS and GMA Games did credit the people for said music. Can't say if Crazy Party gave credit or not. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531377/#p531377 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
