[backstage] Freeview HD Question
Does anyone have details on how the process for getting the necessary details to officially obtain the tables/information to decode the encoded EPG data? I have seen somewhere that the stipulation was that this should be royalty free, but that doesn't exclude administration costs, and obviously there are likely to be restrictions imposed upon subsequent recording, etc by virtue of the contract the licensee has to agree to. Is any of this known or publicly available? [I know such information doesn't help for open source projects, but it would be interesting to know the level of the monetary/contractual bar to people wanting to do things officially, and what effect doing so has on their products] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Question
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 09:57, Stuart Clark stuart.cl...@jahingo.com wrote: [I know such information doesn't help for open source projects, but it would be interesting to know the level of the monetary/contractual bar to people wanting to do things officially, and what effect doing so has on their products] If they did it right then it would be a help (of sorts) to Open Source projects and everybody would be happy. All that's needed is a website where there's a form that includes an all import I agree to the terms and conditions tick box and then everyone who uses an open source project could individually get their own tables. This would be pretty much identical to how a lot of Open Source projects that connect to Web Services that need a developer API key work. Scot - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Question
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 09:57, Stuart Clark stuart.cl...@jahingo.com wrote: [I know such information doesn't help for open source projects, but it would be interesting to know the level of the monetary/contractual bar to people wanting to do things officially, and what effect doing so has on their products] If they did it right then it would be a help (of sorts) to Open Source projects and everybody would be happy. All that's needed is a website where there's a form that includes an all import I agree to the terms and conditions tick box and then everyone who uses an open source project could individually get their own tables. This would be pretty much identical to how a lot of Open Source projects that connect to Web Services that need a developer API key work. Equally depending on any costs/restrictions a company could offer a closed binary plugin for some OS projects [depending on licensing restrictions on plugins] which can be sold to the public - for example how some non-open audio/video codecs are. But that of course would only work if the costs were reasonable (it isn't going to work if it would cost £1 million a year as the market for OS sales would never cover that cost) and the restrictions are compatible (if the license for the tables/info has requirements which would be impossible to implement as a plugin for video player X) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Question
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:29, Scot McSweeney-Roberts bbc_backst...@mcsweeney-roberts.co.uk wrote: ... and then everyone who uses an open source project could individually get their own tables. only for those people who *actively* use open source. doesn't help at all with open source stacks embedded in consumer-facing products. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Question
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:29, Scot McSweeney-Roberts bbc_backst...@mcsweeney-roberts.co.uk wrote: ... and then everyone who uses an open source project could individually get their own tables. only for those people who *actively* use open source. doesn't help at all with open source stacks embedded in consumer-facing products. Presumably those are more likely to be created/sponsored by a company (ie the hardware manufacturer) who could go along the closed/open mix method (if the OS software allowed it and the BBC license allowed it too) The costs would be interesting though - for a small company interested in starting in the market a few hundred pounds would be fine (but that would probably exclude most home users), but tens of thousands would be a much bigger problem. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Question
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:42, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: only for those people who *actively* use open source. doesn't help at all with open source stacks embedded in consumer-facing products. I doubt it would matter much with embedded systems. I can think of three cases - 1) The company involved doesn't release the source, even though they're obligated to (which is still worryingly common) - then they just include the tables in their product (so no different from a closed source system) 2) The company release their OS components, but the 'secret sauce' is a closed source app - again, they just include the include the tables in their product like a closed source system. 3) The company's embedded system is entirely open source - on the device they include the tables, in the source tarball they don't but include instructions along the lines of Download the tables from the the BBC website and unzip them into /src/resources/epg-tables. Scot - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Question
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:12, Scot McSweeney-Roberts bbc_backst...@mcsweeney-roberts.co.uk wrote: 2) The company release their OS components, but the 'secret sauce' is a closed source app - again, they just include the include the tables in their product like a closed source system. actually, that's not a bad approach with respect to the tables themselves: /tmp/eit-decoder.sock the snag is in what conditions the tables are licensed under - because we're not just talking about a license for the tables themselves, but conditions which apply to the whole device which must be adhered to in order to use those tables (enforceable or not, I know not - but who wants to take the risk?) if they say no user-modification of the device shall be permitted, but the license for the software includes anti-TiVoisation clauses, then that's a problem - irrespective of whether the tables or the decoder app are open or closed. without seeing what the terms say in full, it's impossible to know whether there's a workable solution. there are lots of this might be okay if you work around it in *this* manner or this might cause serious legal problems, but there are very few sureties (except for the fact that somebody has to do the legwork to figure all of this stuff out, which comes at a nonzero cost). - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Question
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Scot McSweeney-Roberts bbc_backst...@mcsweeney-roberts.co.uk wrote: If they did it right then it would be a help (of sorts) to Open Source projects and everybody would be happy. All that's needed is a website where there's a form that includes an all import I agree to the terms and conditions tick box and then everyone who uses an open source project could individually get their own tables. This would be pretty much identical to how a lot of Open Source projects that connect to Web Services that need a developer API key work. That's an interesting point, and it's possible that something like that could be done. But the BBC would require as part of the download agreement that you had appropriate content management on the device, wouldn't they? And that's the part that is really a problem - forcing content management into the ecosystem. Adam
Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Question
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:30, Adam Bradley a...@doublegeek.com wrote: But the BBC would require as part of the download agreement that you had appropriate content management on the device, wouldn't they? I would be very surprised if that wasn't part of the T C's, but then it's not much different from how Last.fm's T C's state that you won't use their API to write software that downloads their radio streams. While there's nothing really stopping people from violating the TCs that they agreed to, there's also little to stop people from illicitly cracking the system anyway. If there's a legal way to get the tables then at least there's a way for people to play along with the system as opposed to having to go down the illicit route from the get go. Scot - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Question
Now, if the bbc would consider rolling out a library like this under the LGPL One of these for the epg, but release the source under a bsd-like licence to distro suppliers so they can compile to tgt architectures and release through Partner-type repos... Use that as a proof of concept for a Universal iPlayer Plugin for Totem, VLC, native players... Well, I can dream, can't I... - Original message - On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:30, Adam Bradley a...@doublegeek.com wrote: But the BBC would require as part of the download agreement that you had appropriate content management on the device, wouldn't they? I would be very surprised if that wasn't part of the T C's, but then it's not much different from how Last.fm's T C's state that you won't use their API to write software that downloads their radio streams. While there's nothing really stopping people from violating the TCs that they agreed to, there's also little to stop people from illicitly cracking the system anyway. If there's a legal way to get the tables then at least there's a way for people to play along with the system as opposed to having to go down the illicit route from the get go. Scot - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
