Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Christian here, reply inline, On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 08:07:59 +1000, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: > Luke Yelavich here, reply inline. > > On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 11:18:22PM AEST, Linux for blind general > discussion wrote: >> BTW.: During this discussion many things have been said

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Hello, this is Samuel, Eric Oyen, on mar. 18 avril 2017 08:23:34 -0700, wrote: > here is one thing that might be distro independent: create an > accessibility package set. As mentioned by others in the thread, doing it as a distribution of binaries will lead to a lot of problems. Having it as a

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I'm not as old fashioned as some, but I'll take a forum dedicated to a specific subject over the mega social sites anyday, and I'll leave promotion on the megasocial sites as an exercise for those who enjoy that environment. Outside of these blind-specific lists, I haven't run into very many

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Hi, On Do, Apr 27, 2017 at 12:16:36 +, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: >Thank you for additional information on SBl and the link. Your wellcome :-). >I have no idea how old the version of SBL I'm using is, but as far as >I'm concerned, it has yet to show it's age, and if I had a

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Tony Baechler here. No, I'm talking about attracting as many new users as possible, blind or sighted with a focus on teens and young adults. I'm being very generalized here, but if a blind teen gets really interested in what Linux can do but sees the glaring limitations, they might be willing

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Tony Baechler here. I would say you're not worrying enough. The sighted expect to be understood. They expect the blind to be able to read what they're saying. I know I've missed things because they aren't read. I can usually figure out from the person and context what they mean, but not

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Tony Baechler here. I did this with my DECtalk Express and grub quite a long time ago. Download this file and put it in /etc/default/ on Debian-based systems. Run update-grub and reboot. It should come up talking at the boot prompt before Linux starts. http://batsupport.com/unsupported/grub

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Tony Baechler here. Kyle, Kyle, Kyle. You're still missing the point. You seem to think I'm in love with a kernel-based screen reader and my mind is closed to alternatives. OK, let me try again. On 4/26/2017 2:52 PM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: I myself am completely opposed to

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Tony Baechler here. First, regarding SBL, yes, the .de email would be correct. Here is a generic command to figure out which binaries a Debian (.deb) package installs: dpkg -L sbl | grep bin Regarding boot messages, I usually don't want to hear them either. I silence Speakup as soon as it

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Yes, that's true, and it's why some like the Emacspeak "audio desktop" with its ability of playing media and presenting structured and formatted text which no other interface has come close to yet. Sure, Audacious is nice, and Emacs has no way of dealing with

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

According to John Heim: # Kyle, it is just your opinion that a screen reader should not be in the # kernel. And your reasoning for saying that amounts to that it shouldn't # be in the kernel. I'm sorry you have such a hard time fully reading what I wrote. I did indeed give a fair number of

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Hi, Terminals exclude blind people for the remaining of society. It requieres real computing skills. Rejected by many users who use computer just to work. Terminal is unable to make the user have benefit with modern Web techno. Well, it's a geek interface, amazing but not for everybody. Just for

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

But we're talking about attracting blind users, right? Shells and terminals are more natural for us than GUIs. Instructing the computer is far more intuitive than pretending that it's a two-dimensional surface with pictures on it. Amanda On 4/27/17, Linux for blind general discussion

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Sure, but if eSpeak cannot read Emoji and such, and we want new users to use the web, they’ll quickly see that as "just another thing to file a bug about and hope some one will fix it." Although, people on the audio games forum are getting into Linux, and don’t seem

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Good. Any work with speech dispatcher will go a long way. -- Sent from Discordia using Gnus for Emacs. Email: r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com Long days and pleasant nights! Linux for blind general discussion writes: > On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 02:27:12AM AEST, Linux for blind

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

According to r.d.t.prater: # Otherwise, they’ll turn back to iOS, and Voiceover, # which can speak Emoji and such, pretty quickly. Not quite. I happen to know that Android and Google's speech synthesizer can speak emojis as well, and has had such capability for some time. On my Android

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

#+OPTIONS: latex:t toc:nil H:3 However way we do it, it sure needs doing if we want wide adoption of Linux by the young blind, who /expect/ it to work. -- Sent from Discordia using Gnus for Emacs. Email: r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com Long days and pleasant nights! Linux for blind general

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 02:27:12AM AEST, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: > At this point, speech-dispatcher is not designed to be a text processor, as > correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe it assumes that supported > synthesizers already have built in text processing capabilities.

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Linux for blind general discussion writes: > Sure, let synthesizers handle ASCII text, but give synthesizers the > textual pronunciation of Unicode characters, such as smiling face. Chris Brannon here. This works fine if you assume that everyone wants English and

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Kyle, it is just your opinion that a screen reader should not be in the kernel. And your reasoning for saying that amounts to that it shouldn't be in the kernel. You are making a meaningless distinction between a serial console and a screen reader. What difference does it make if there is a

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Then we'd better get eSpeak supporting Unicode pronunciation before I can confidently recommend anything besides Emacspeak to younger generations. Otherwise, they’ll turn back to iOS, and Voiceover, which can speak Emoji and such, pretty quickly. I know, I’m not a

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

At this point, speech-dispatcher is not designed to be a text processor, as correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe it assumes that supported synthesizers already have built in text processing capabilities. Any pronunciation handling in either speech-dispatcher or a screen reader should

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

well, the fact is, Speech Dispatcher is what Orca currently uses, so that Orca doesn’t have to keep up with changes to eSpeak’s functions. After all, having many communications between synthesizers is why Emacspeak’s eSpeak support is so bad in the first place,

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Aall the money IAVIT has ever gotten has come from knowing someone. Most corporate foundations don't even take unsolicited grant applications. You have to get a sponsor in the company who can write the application for you. And you kind of have to allow them to drive the project. There may be

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Saying a serial console is not kernel dependent is inaccurate and misleading. The part that displays the kernel boot messages is absolutely kernel dependent. I think you mean that you can get messages even earlier by, as a seperate step, configuring a serial console in the boot loader, right?

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Sure, let synthesizers handle ASCII text, but give synthesizers the textual pronunciation of Unicode characters, such as smiling face. -- Sent from Discordia using Gnus for Emacs. Email: r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com Long days and pleasant nights! Linux for blind general discussion

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I would argue that the pronunciation of symbols should most certainly be handled by the synthesizer rather than any intermediate layer. Letting the intermediate layers handle symbol pronunciation will only cause lots of problems similar to the "tiflda" problem we have in Speakup to this day.

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

As of four years ago the Carrol Center was teaching only windows. I know this as a Friend came in as did many others from different countries. The goal was to learn what to teach blind folks in the country they came from. Am I correct in thinking that Carrol center is all funded from Washington

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Hmm. Facebook groups? Perhaps? I could handle that, if it please ya. Linux for the blind. Grant stuff, though, I’ll probably have to leave for those who know about petitioning and such. However, NVDA got plenty of grant money from Mozilla and Adobe, so we could

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I agree with you, but when you say schools, you mean the government. They provide the majority of funding schools use for that sort of thing. I did not think of a grant writer. That sounds like a good place to start. --Kelly Prescott On Thu, 27 Apr 2017, Linux for blind general discussion

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Tony Baechler here. Your comments again emphasize the need for a nonprofit organization. I wouldn't worry too much about the money. Funding will happen once the word gets out. Oh, it takes time and it won't be immediate, but it can and will happen. What we need is a grant writer. The

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Oh wow thanks for the link to the SBL source! I wasn't aware it still existed anywhere other than old OpenSUSE and Knoppix. Hopefully I can get this working on Arch and possibly Fedora as well. If it works, there should be no objections on technical grounds for getting it packaged for many

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I clearly recall stating that the serial console is *not* kernel dependent. I clearly stated that I can get *boot loader* messages using my computer's serial console, which are printed to the output device long before the kernel starts. If my kernel fails to start for any reason, I know it,

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

But, again, Kyle, the serial console is also kernel dependent. You're simply depending on a different set of developers. You could switch to a user space screen reader once the host is done booting just as you switch to a getty once the boot is done. -- John Heim On 04/26/2017 04:52 PM, Linux

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Eric Oyen here… looks like some good points all around on this posting. For the most part, a kernel level speech interface can be a good thing, except when it isn't. What I wouldn't mind seeing is the addition of a speak up type module for EFI. The reason for this as that I might need to be

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Tony, If you found bash scripts, rather than sbl, you probably found the Adrienne[spelling] menu system. SBL is the screen reader that should be running as a daemon before the menu system starts, although I can't say I'm well versed on the subject, as I found the Adrienne menu system to be

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Tony and all, I myself am completely opposed to a screen reader being locked into a kernel, and have been for many years, for very good, technical, non-political reasons. Text mode is exactly this: text mode. The layout of the entire screen is available as plain text and some other character

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

#+OPTIONS: latex:t toc:nil H:3 So, if Debian is all we have, pretty much, who cares about accessibility, what is there for those who want a clean, but up-to-date system other than Arch? As a user, of Emacs with Emacspeak and Voxin mostly, I find Arch stable enough to

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Addendum to my previous post: Regarding boot messages, even back when I could see, assuming whichever distro I was using didn't cover them with a splash screen, I can't say they were ever all that useful when things went wrong to the point of things not booting. In most cases, I usually used such

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Tony Baechler here. I totally agree about the blind community. You forgot the third group. We have the ACB, NFB and those who don't care and won't join either. I'm seeing more of those. However, no, F12 isn't the standard. Window-Eyes uses Insert+T. Should Insert+T read the title as with NVDA

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Tony Baechler here. Thanks for the Fenrir link. I'll go get it. I've looked at the SBL source, or what I could find of it. No, it doesn't need a kernel module. The problem is it's tied into Knoppix, so I think would be difficult to package. It's mostly bash scripts which I guess are a talking

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Tony Baechler here. Kyle, first, from a different post, I have no feelings about Arch. I don't know if they care about accessibility or not. I would think if they do, they would make Talking Arch official, but there are probably technical issues. Why they can't do like Slackware, Debian and

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Tony Baechler here. You make my point, exactly! All of the BSDs, Windows, and who knows what else ship Gnome. Orca is part of Gnome. Therefore, they all ship Orca if they ship a complete Gnome environment. That doesn't mean they care about accessibility. That means they ship Orca because it's

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Nobody said anything about all blind people agreeing about anything. The issue is whether we are hurting ourselves with our inability to cooperate. Even if you don't believe that the infighting in the blind community is worse than it is in the general public, that's no reason to just accept

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I agree with this post. Sure it would be great if all blind people agreed with one another, especially when it came to issues concerning the blind, but I think this is unrealistic. In this sense, the blind are no different then the general public, and as nice as it would be if the blind were

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I just don't understand how you can fail to see how judgemental you are being. My hardware speech synth is not obsolete as proven by the very fact that I use it all the time and the speakup code is being actively developed as we speak. It's just a different choice I made. I have very good

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I know next to nothing about the NFB and ACB, and I could've sworn there was an AFB in there somewhere, but unless one organization is hoarding resources for their own members, refuse to let members be part of other organizations, or abuse IP law to the point only those willing to jump through

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

But the world doesn't have a problem with too much unity. You say, "unity behind the wrong philosophy very well might give us a worse world, not a better one." But it's not as if that has been a huge problem for the blind community, developers of accessibility software, or the combination of

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Is there a set of instructions for doing this? Al On 04/24/2017 04:46 PM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: This is Luke Yelavich, reply below. On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 09:23:19PM AEST, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: Screen readers cannot give boot messages anyways, with

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

All of this criticicism of Speakup, however valid, avoids the fact that Speakup has nonetheless been available as a staging module with Debian, for example, as well as Arch, if I'm not mistaken. It is not available with Fedora. It then became unavailable even from rpmfusion, and I've not

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

That's what I've thought. Also, it seems to me as a matter of equal access that we should have speech and Braille access as close to the time as possible when sighted folks can see action on their monitors. If that requires that our speech/Braille output software be in kernel space, then it

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

So you are asserting that users would prefer insert+t to F12? Suppose I were to provide you with evidence that that is untrue. Would that make any difference to you? Suppose I were to show you that the majority of users would prefer there to be a standard set of shortcut keys for the most

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Sometimes that slogan about the perfect being the enemy of the good is useful, sometimes not. In this instance, I'm inclined to think it's not. Sighted people as a group disagree on a great many things, and vary a great deal on the willingness to compromise. It's the same with blind folks,

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I see this a lot too. I happen to be a member of both the ACB and NFB. Yeah, I know, its rare. I use both orgs as tools to get what I need done. Now, what I have found among the blind is that a lot of us are very anal retentive. It may have a lot to do with the fact that we have to be super

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Actually a screen reader using f12 to tell the time does make it a standard probably unique to that screen reader. Standards are loved by many because there are so many standards from which to choose. There is a huge difference between a standard and the standard; those multiple standards

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I don't think nerds or blind nerds are unique in this sense at all. In fact, since the blind suffer so much from prejudice, I'm always surprised by how prejudiced the blind themselves can be about the blind, although I shouldn't be, since I think that's just human nature. Anyone who thinks the

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

It's not that I don't care about new users coming to Linux from Windows. It's more that I care about the new computer user who's starting with Linux. Why shouldn't they have the most intuitive set of key bindings possible? What about those that have been using Orca all along? How about those

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I don't think it's fair to say that Windows users just went right along with giving up the start menu. There was a major out cry and MS reintroduced the start menu. -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail On 24/04/17 19:06, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: Windows users have had to

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Dan Rossi here. WOW, what a thread. The vehemence surrounding a silly little thing like F-12 verses insert-t is amazing. In JAWS, insert-t is for the title of the window I am in. Title, T. There are only 26 letters in the alphabet and a few modifier keys, so some things are going to get

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

The serial terminal is indeed built into the kernel, but the difference is that it isn't stuck in staging with no hope of ever getting out into the main tree. In fact, the serial terminal has been a part of the base kernel for many many years. And what in the world is wrong with using a cable

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Windows users have had to learn and relearn basic functionality of their own precious OS for years now, as Microsoft itself periodically changes the way things work just for the sake of making a change. I see nothing new here, except that the benefits of Linux far outweigh any changes in key

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

F12 is completely arbitrary and has no meaning outside of stupid Jaws. And to answer the question of people who speak different languages using different mnemonics, this is completely fair, but should be addressed by maybe having different default mnemonics for different languages, not by

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

This is Luke Yelavich, reply below. On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 09:23:19PM AEST, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: > Screen readers cannot give boot messages anyways, with software speech. Actually, with things set up correctly to allow the screen reader to come up as early as possible,

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Regardless of the method used, I'm not sure boot messages are all that important to the average user or even the average power user. The functionality might be useful to some sysadmins, but I'm not convinced the convenience kernel integration provides to these few is worth the extra hassle

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Well, the serial terminal is also built into the kernel. you're just depending a a different set of maintainers. A serial terminal is no where near as usable as speakup is at boot time. You talk about a serial terminal needing only another machine like an RP but that's not entirely true. You

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Okay, lets just make this perfectly clear. You don't care that a new user trying to switch from Windows to linux would be confused by having to learn all new shortcut keys, right? You are saying that in your opinion insert+t just makes so much more sense than F12 that it is more important than

Re: blinux list Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I wouldn't mind moving to a new list. -- Sent from Discordia using Gnus for Emacs. Email: r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com Long days and pleasant nights! Linux for blind general discussion writes: > It's not true that Red Hat did what they could do as quickly as they > could do

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I use Emacs, with Boodler, as a Talking Clock. There is a sound scape that speaks time every 15 minutes. -- Sent from Discordia using Gnus for Emacs. Email: r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com Long days and pleasant nights! Linux for blind general discussion writes: > For

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

My God! No one is /making/ you use it! It, is, a, choice, damn it! Just because one person wants it one way doesn’t mean it’s how it /has/ to be! -- Sent from Discordia using Gnus for Emacs. Email: r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com Long days and pleasant nights! Linux for blind general

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Screen readers cannot give boot messages anyways, with software speech. -- Sent from Discordia using Gnus for Emacs. Email: r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com Long days and pleasant nights! Linux for blind general discussion writes: > Boot messages can be sent out via a serial

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

For reading, if I can't read it in Firefox, I usually convert it to plain text and read it in nano. Gmail's view as HTML function works for most attached documents, and the following command line utilities are all useful: catdoc for .doc and I believe .rtf(and I believe catdoc also includes

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

F12 isn't stupid. It's a perfectly reasonable choice. Someone else might argue that orca+t is stupid because to them, t means table. Or tab. Or maybe they speak swahili and their word for time starts with a q or an x. -- John Heim On 04/24/2017 05:49 AM, Linux for blind general discussion

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Boot messages can be sent out via a serial console, without the help of a screen reader locked into the kernel, where it is harder to fix bugs and harder to keep it updated, as the whole kernel has to be updated along with it. I know the serial console works, as I have a uart header on my

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

No. F12 does not mean time in any language. F12 may be a Jaws thing, and it may even be an NVDA thing, but it's far from a standard. Last I checked, time wasn't spelled with an f anything. Therefore, f12 telling me the time is stupid and illogical at best. I want my t damn it. T for time, t

Re: IAVIT - Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Email me off list at j...@iavit.org. Our server is more of a meeting place than a development environment. We can save you the cost of hosting and a domain name. We can give you space to host your downloads, the email list, plus a blog or a wiki for documentation. On 04/24/2017 05:34 AM,

blinux list Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

It's not true that Red Hat did what they could do as quickly as they could do it. The spam problem went on for months before some of us finally started to make an issue of it. Even then it tooke a couple of weeks before anything was done. Secondly, they should have removed the spammer from the

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

The reason it is important for the screen reader to not be in user space is that you might need it to gett boot messages. -- John Heim On 04/24/2017 07:40 AM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: Tony, I said absolutely nothing of Red Hat hosting Orca. I said they ship it with the

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

gt; > -Original Message- > From: blinux-list-boun...@redhat.com > [mailto:blinux-list-boun...@redhat.com] On Behalf Of Linux for blind > general discussion > Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 8:47 PM > To: blinux-list@redhat.com > Subject: Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux &g

RE: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

reflect those of the Library of Congress, NLS. -Original Message- From: blinux-list-boun...@redhat.com [mailto:blinux-list-boun...@redhat.com] On Behalf Of Linux for blind general discussion Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 8:47 PM To: blinux-list@redhat.com Subject: Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I haven't ever found the SBL source code, although I did want to try to package it for Arch at one point. That said, I'm not sure whether or not anyone is even still maintaining it now, and not having seen the source or the package dependencies, I'm not entirely sure it doesn't rely on a

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I haven't tried Fenrir and wouldn't know where to start with trying it, but I've tried speakup both on x86 Debian(both 32- and 64-bit) and on a Raspberry Pi(via piespeakup) and except for not needing screen review to play classic infocom games under Frotz, found it vastly inferior to SBL, the text

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Tony, I said absolutely nothing of Red Hat hosting Orca. I said they ship it with the distribution, which they are not at all obligated to do, as proven by the fact that Linux Mint didn't come with Orca in the live environment for a very long time. As for Speakup, it has never been fully

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Le 24/04/2017 à 02:29, Linux for blind general discussion a écrit : > *Does quick test* At least on my system, using ctrl+left square > bracket to go back a page in Firefox puts focus on the link that took > me forward, though I'll admit behavior isn't always consistent. > > As for key

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Le 24/04/2017 à 02:24, Linux for blind general discussion a écrit : > Orca only *seems* slightly slower than NVDA to some because it works > directly with the browser. I'll take that any day over a page taking > twice as long to load because it first has to be loaded into the > browser, and then

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Kelly Prescott here. This is only my $0.02 worth as a developer, but here I go. I can program, in several languages in fact. Here is the problem. Most people that write for Linux and free software in general do it on there own time. Yes, there are a small group of highly paid developers that

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I'm Tony Baechler. Umm, Kyle, no. Anyone can host any project without caring about accessibility. As you surely know, anyone can dump files on a public server and anyone can host a git repo. No, RH doesn't host Orca. The Gnome Foundation (gnome.org) hosts Orca. Their server is in Sweden. Joanie

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Tony, First of all, as far as I've been able to deduce over the years, everyone *cares* about accessibility. The problem is that no one *knows how* to best address any issues with it. Red Hat certainly does care. If they didn't care, they wouldn't ship Orca, or they wouldn't implement the

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

No. Long-time Jaws and NVDA users can figure out that t stands for time and use that instead, just like all the rest of us who used something else before we got to Orca. And if they really want something as stupid as f12, they can configure it in Orca's keybindings tab. ~Kyle

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I'm Tony Baechler. See below. On 4/23/2017 3:49 PM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: Granted, I could be wrong and the only reason there isn't a .deb for NVDA or an install.exe for Orca is because no one's tried compiling them outside their native environments, but if it was that

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I'm Tony Baechler. See below. On 4/23/2017 3:11 PM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: Absolutely. For a number of years now, I've thought it would be nice to have an umbrella foundation to help accessibility related projects. I don't know where it would get its funding, and I don't

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I'm Tony Baechler. Probably others will comment, but having looked at the NVDA git repo and following the Orca list, I would like to clarify some things. On 4/23/2017 2:54 PM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: And even if the NV association had any interest in branching out, I suspect

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

My name is Tony Baechler. Since names aren't showing up, it makes it very hard to track discussions. If no one objects, I think I'll create a new list very soon. I've looked at groups.io and they look good enough. Besides, as I stated before, Red Hat has shown many times that they don't care

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I'm not saying you would want it, but long-time NVDA and Jaws users would. -- Sent from Discordia using Gnus for Emacs. Email: r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com Long days and pleasant nights! Linux for blind general discussion writes: > Why do I want insert+f12 to tell me the time

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Why do I want insert+f12 to tell me the time when insert+t, (t for time), can do that for me just fine and more intuitively? How is f12 better than t, which stands for time? No, that's simply not a logical keybinding, and I don't want it in Orca. BTDubs, holding in the insert Orca key and

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Well, I'd love for this resource to be used. I would if I knew anything about how all that works. There was a guy on the Orca list, the creator of Liblouis, which asked if anything needed to be done with Orca development. We told him Braille support, but so far,

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Okay, I agree with that. But let's look at Brailleback for a good example of why different isn’t always better. With note takers, braille displays, all that, they all use the same set of logical commands for editing text, whereas braille back has these awkward, hard

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

The windows version thing is mostly smoke and mirrors. Until Windows 10, the version stayed at 6.x for a long time... Even in 10, there are not many changes, they are mostly cosmetic. NVDA works surprisingly well in Windows. The thing is, I need 3 different screen readers: JAWS, NVDA, and Window

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Orca only *seems* slightly slower than NVDA to some because it works directly with the browser. I'll take that any day over a page taking twice as long to load because it first has to be loaded into the browser, and then it has to be loaded yet again into NVDA's virtual buffer. And forget

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Kyle, you are showing exactly the attitude that drives so many normal users crazy. Now, I defended the idea of developers creating a distro just for the blind. A lot of people don't even approve of that. But you could at least recognize that a lot of people would benefit if screen reader

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Le 24/04/2017 à 01:07, Linux for blind general discussion a écrit : > # A couple of years ago, I suggested the nvda and the orca developers > # create a inter-operability panel to make the 2 screen readers as similar > # as possible. I still think it is a good idea. > Some things are already

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