On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 01:14:41 -0400, Keith Henson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 05:05 PM 26/07/04 -0700, you wrote:
Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[Snip everything for the sake of a tangent]
The question going through my mind is : Are genetic
imperatives rational?
Not at
From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Terrorism too close to home...
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 18:07:48 -0500
genetic imperatives have been around for at least a billion years.
You're
- Original Message -
From: Travis Edmunds [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: Terrorism too close to home...
From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion
From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Terrorism too close to home...
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 16:58:21 -0500
- Original Message -
From: Travis Edmunds [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL
At 08:30 PM 7/26/04, Dan Minette wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: Terrorism too close to home...
Humans, being social animals, created ethics/morality
Going back a while to answer parts of a post, as I've promised.
- Original Message -
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: Terrorism too close to home...
I saw the smiley, but I think you
On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 03:41:12PM -0500, Dan Minette wrote:
I read Gary far differently than you did. I read him as speaking of
relative priorities. Its not that he disagrees with the idea that, in
principal, paying kidnappers is a bad idea. Its not that he thinks he
has an inherent right
- Original Message -
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: Terrorism too close to home...
On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 03:41:12PM -0500, Dan Minette wrote:
I read Gary far differently than you did
On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:32:43 -0500, Dan Minette
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: Terrorism too close to home...
On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 03
- Original Message -
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: Terrorism too close to home...
- Original Message -
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL
Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[Snip everything for the sake of a tangent]
The question going through my mind is : Are genetic
imperatives rational?
Not at all. Just look at how insane MAD war is/was,
although in caveman days it made genetic sense to wipe
out a competing tribe
I wrote:
Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
The question going through my mind is : Are
genetic imperatives rational?
Not at all.
snip!
Whoops, meant to put in a funny about answering a
rhetorical questionoh, well, I guess you knew that
anyway!
Debbi
Engage Brain *Before*
Dan wrote
major snippage
We could ask Gary what he meant; I certainly don't always
read posts the way the author intends them to be written.
But I'd be happy to bet a beer, a buck, etc. that my
interpretation is closer to his meaning than yours. A literal
interpretation of the
On 27 Jul 2004, at 1:13 am, Deborah Harrell wrote:
Engage Brain *Before* Pressing Send Maru
It would be a very dull list if we all did that!
--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
INTEL INSIDE
It's not a marketing
On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 08:25:04PM -0400, Gary Nunn wrote:
Wow! I can't believe that this topic came back to life!
There you go again with the irrationality! :-)
Let me make a few clarifications for those that took the original post
much too literally...
On the other hand, isn't more likely
- Original Message -
From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: Terrorism too close to home...
Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[Snip everything for the sake of a tangent
- Original Message -
From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: Terrorism too close to home...
Humans, being social animals, created ethics/morality to enhance our
ability to co-operate
- Original Message -
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: Terrorism too close to home...
- Original Message -
From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL
In a message dated 7/26/2004 7:08:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
But from a genetic point of view I think the answers are very
different. Once you have reproduced, a parents sole (in terms of
genetics) purpose in life is to protect ones offspring. (And/or to
produce
- Original Message -
From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: Terrorism too close to home...
I'm just guessing, but I would think that language, ethics/morality,
and bigger brains developed
At 05:05 PM 26/07/04 -0700, you wrote:
Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[Snip everything for the sake of a tangent]
The question going through my mind is : Are genetic
imperatives rational?
Not at all. Just look at how insane MAD war is/was,
although in caveman days it made genetic
At 10:17 PM 26/07/04 -0400, you wrote:
In a message dated 7/26/2004 7:08:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
But from a genetic point of view I think the answers are very
different. Once you have reproduced, a parents sole (in terms of
genetics) purpose in life is to protect
On 22 Jun 2004, at 4:39 am, Julia Thompson wrote:
William T Goodall wrote:
That sounds like a good reason not to have children. I don't fancy my
brain getting messed about that much.
Well, then, whatever you do, don't get pregnant -- that *really* messes
with your brain. Breastfeeding afterwards
On Sun, Jun 20, 2004 at 11:19:37PM -0500, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
In the scenario being discussed, this rule of law has already
violated quite spectacularly by the kidnapper. And while two wrongs
do not make a right, in many situations the available options do not
include a choice between
From: Erik Reuter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yes, you are wrong, again. Since I am capable of abstract thought
(hypothetical, whatever you wish to call it), it is irrelevant
whether
I have children or not to how I think about a situation. Certainly
my
judgement about what I would do in
On 21 Jun 2004, at 4:01 pm, Horn, John wrote:
From: Erik Reuter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yes, you are wrong, again. Since I am capable of abstract thought
(hypothetical, whatever you wish to call it), it is irrelevant
whether
I have children or not to how I think about a situation. Certainly
my
On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 10:01:53AM -0500, Horn, John wrote:
I think this may be one of those cases where if you aren't in the
situtation, you can't judge how you'd react.
Wrong again. I can predict what my actions would be.
A few years before I had children, I was having a discussion with 4
On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 11:32:55AM -0500, Horn, John wrote:
To underscore this point: In the same conversation I mentioned in my
last post*, my brothers all said that they found it amazing that there
were no bodily fluids or wastes that could come out of their children
that they couldn't
William T Goodall wrote:
On 21 Jun 2004, at 4:01 pm, Horn, John wrote:
From: Erik Reuter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yes, you are wrong, again. Since I am capable of abstract thought
(hypothetical, whatever you wish to call it), it is irrelevant
whether
I have children or not to how
Horn, John wrote:
From: Dan Minette [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Parenting is the most life changing experience I have gone
through. There
are a number of things I didn't think that I would do, that I
ended up
doing. The main reason for this is that I didn't have as full an
- Original Message -
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 7:03 AM
Subject: Re: Terrorism too close to home...
On Fri, Jun 18, 2004 at 08:32:14PM -0400, Gary Nunn wrote:
Erik, I was not being condescending
On Sun, Jun 20, 2004 at 12:46:55AM -0500, Dan Minette wrote:
Ever since then, I have a fear of my kids and heights. I can take
heights quite well, I just can't stand seeing my kids at the edge.
So, I get nervous when they are at a second story railing, even though
I can at the same time,
Erik wrote:
Unless a very large super-majority agrees with you, you would be wrong
to do so. You would be taking something that you do not have the right
to take. Besides being unjust, it is also likely to be inefficient --
wasting your time on short-term, trivial matters instead of applying
On Sun, Jun 20, 2004 at 11:59:46AM -0700, Doug Pensinger wrote:
Lincoln imposed a number of restrictions on rights during the Civil
War including the suspension of Habius Corpus. Considering the
situation, do you think they were justified?
Since I suspect you are more familiar with that
At 01:28 PM 6/20/04, Erik Reuter wrote:
1) No one has the right to take (sacrifice, destroy, etc.) something
that does not belong to them, no matter how much they may want to (this
is more or less the rule of law upon which much of our civilization
depends)
Fodder for thought . . .
In the
On Fri, Jun 18, 2004 at 08:32:14PM -0400, Gary Nunn wrote:
Erik, I was not being condescending or belittling you in any way when
Yes, you were, even if you didn't realize it. Also, your comment about
the discussion going down hill while you were gone. Ha! That's not what
happened. You made
Gary Nunn wrote:
On Tue, Jun 15, 2004 at 10:50:50PM -0400, Gary Nunn wrote:
Would I pay all the money in a bank to ransom my children
or sacrifice
someone else to save my children from imminent death? Yes I
would.
Erik wrote
No you would not. IT IS NOT YOUR
From: Erik Reuter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, Jun 15, 2004 at 10:50:50PM -0400, Gary Nunn wrote:
Would I pay all the money in a bank to ransom my children
or sacrifice
someone else to save my children from imminent death? Yes I
would.
No you would not. IT IS NOT YOUR MONEY TO
On Thu, Jun 17, 2004 at 11:51:18AM -0500, Horn, John wrote:
He didn't say that he COULD. Only that he would.
As would I.
I don't give a fuck what mental masturbation you want to engage in. Keep
it to yourself.
--
Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Terrorism too close to home...
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:56:14 -0400
On Thu, Jun 17, 2004 at 11:51:18AM -0500, Horn, John wrote:
He didn't say that he
At 01:22 AM 6/16/2004 -0400 JDG wrote:
At 11:17 AM 6/15/2004 -0500 Gary Denton wrote:
I don't know, I am a couple miles from a petrochemical plant and never
think about terrorists attacking it.
Then again, you've probably never watched an airplane crash into an office
building ten miles away from
Julia Thompson wrote:
As far as sacrificing someone else to save my kids, I might very well.
Killing someone in defense of my children is something I would do if I
had to.
/me too, I would easily trade half of Earth - say, the useless and evil
northern hemisphere - for any of my kids. But it
On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 00:23:33 -0400, JDG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Welcome to the Club, Gary
I can definitely sympathize with how it feels to think that there may be
terrorists on your doorstep - say targetting your train into work or the
very large Train Station next door to your
Gary Denton wrote
I don't know, I am a couple miles from a petrochemical plant
and never think about terrorists attacking it.
Some people just seem much more concerned with their own
safety, more willing to trade liberties for safety.
Just out of curiosity, do you have children?
Gary Nunn wrote:
Since the attacks on Sept 11, I have found consistently, that I am
infinitely more fearful of my children's safety than I am of my own.
Would I give up some liberties to ensure their safety? Absolutely.
Do you mean absolutely yes or absolutely no?
serious
I can think of
On Tue, Jun 15, 2004 at 06:57:18PM -0400, Gary Nunn wrote:
Would I give up some liberties to ensure their safety? Absolutely.
But you do not have the right to give up OTHERS liberties for your (or
your children's) sake. Other's liberties are not yours to give up.
That's like saying you would
- Original Message -
From: Gary Nunn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 5:57 PM
Subject: RE: Terrorism too close to home...
Gary Denton wrote
I don't know, I am a couple miles from a petrochemical plant
and never think
- Original Message -
From: Gary Nunn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 5:57 PM
Subject: RE: Terrorism too close to home...
Gary Denton wrote
I don't know, I am a couple miles from a petrochemical plant
and never think
- Original Message -
From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: Terrorism too close to home...
Would I give up some liberties to ensure their safety? Absolutely.
Not me.
I
Erik wrote
I want my liberties. Don't you go giving them away without my
permission.
Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/
OK, I know better than to post a non-specific remark like what I wrote
originally to this list.
The question of giving up liberties for safety is much like
- Original Message -
From: Gary Nunn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 9:50 PM
Subject: RE: Terrorism too close to home...
Conscientia non oboedientia honor est.
Honor is conscience, not obedience.
Actually, honor
On Tue, Jun 15, 2004 at 10:50:50PM -0400, Gary Nunn wrote:
Would I pay all the money in a bank to ransom my children or sacrifice
someone else to save my children from imminent death? Yes I would.
No you would not. IT IS NOT YOUR MONEY TO GIVE AWAY.
--
Erik Reuter
On Tue, Jun 15, 2004 at 10:50:50PM -0400, Gary Nunn wrote:
Would I pay all the money in a bank to ransom my children
or sacrifice
someone else to save my children from imminent death? Yes I would.
Erik wrote
No you would not. IT IS NOT YOUR MONEY TO GIVE AWAY.
Just a guess,
On Tue, Jun 15, 2004 at 11:42:48PM -0400, Gary Nunn wrote:
On Tue, Jun 15, 2004 at 10:50:50PM -0400, Gary Nunn wrote:
Would I pay all the money in a bank to ransom my children
or sacrifice
someone else to save my children from imminent death? Yes I would.
Erik wrote
No
Gary Nunn wrote:
On Tue, Jun 15, 2004 at 10:50:50PM -0400, Gary Nunn wrote:
Would I pay all the money in a bank to ransom my children
or sacrifice
someone else to save my children from imminent death? Yes I would.
Erik wrote
No you would not. IT IS NOT YOUR MONEY TO GIVE
At 11:17 AM 6/15/2004 -0500 Gary Denton wrote:
I don't know, I am a couple miles from a petrochemical plant and never
think about terrorists attacking it.
Then again, you've probably never watched an airplane crash into an office
building ten miles away from your present location on TV, and then
Gary wrote:
Of course this threat is no different that any other terrorist threat,
it's just a little closer to home for me. I have always said that the
best way to create true terror would be the random bombing or
destruction of small town targets that have no strategic value.
Aye, look at the
Welcome to the Club, Gary
I can definitely sympathize with how it feels to think that there may be
terrorists on your doorstep - say targetting your train into work or the
very large Train Station next door to your office
JDG - We Will Prevail, Maru
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