Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

I've been skimming the Another Approach thread, as I haven't had time to really process it, though I look forward to examining the ideas, internalizing concepts, and using it. But, on the point of having different ways to say things, YES! When I'm dancing, I never try to teach in the walk

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

You raise a good point. It took a long time for someone to impress upon me that, although I have no problem with positional calling, many people do. Different people have different strengths. When calling for a group of beginners, I've found that things go more smoothly if I know several ways to

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

On Tue, Jun 02, 2015, Andrea Nettleton via Callers wrote: > > English callers and dancers clearly have no trouble saying or > understanding these terms. If they were that awkward, they would long > since have been replaced. I think we see positions as roles purely > from habit. If I taught a

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

On Wed, Jun 03, 2015, Jim Hemphill via Callers wrote: > > I realize that it is much easier on callers to just substitute a label for > ladies and gents on their calling cards. It shifts the burden onto the > dancers who haven't grown up in a genderless dance environment as their > brains

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

l confusion. >>> >>> I wonder what the impact of this would be on chaos contra with the >>> additional position or role swappring mid dance. Of course, that’s the >>> dancers’ conundrum, not the callers. J >>> >>> Thanx, >>> Ri

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

weight.net<mailto:call...@sharedweight.net>" <call...@sharedweight.net<mailto:call...@sharedweight.net>> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2015 2:31 AM Subject: Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling Hey Michael, I think you mean that those who began the dance as first cor

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

the callers. J > > Thanx, > Ric Goldman > > From: Callers [mailto:callers-boun...@lists.sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of > Perry Shafran via Callers > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 7:42 AM > To: Andrea Nettleton > Cc: call...@sharedweight.net > Subject: Re: [Callers]

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

Aahz suggested Purrple and Green. I think Aahz should be minding P's and Q's rather than P's and G's  Michael Fuerst      802 N Broadway      Urbana IL 61801  217 239 5844 "Whenever Dan Savage and Miss Manners agree, take their advice!" --Sigrid Ellis

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

I agree with your point on obscurity with newer dancers, Michael. I also feel some of the names (and I hope this is taken well) de-humanizes the roles. Jets, Rubys, corners are references to things or positions rather than people. I know this does not solve the problem at hand and may not be

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

Andea asked, "I would love to hear from those who have danced Morris or other single gender sets in hands four whether they use numbered corners or some other designation." Most Cotswold Morris is six men - two lines of three. And, yes, we say First Corners for the long right diagonal (what ECD

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

Cc: Caller's discussion list <call...@sharedweight.net>; Andrea Nettleton >> <twirly-g...@bellsouth.net> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2015 8:45 AM >> >> Subject: Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling >> >> If you want to redefine "c

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

On Tue, Jun 02, 2015, Maia McCormick via Callers wrote: > > I think Ron's point is that with this set of terms (i.e. 1st/2nd corner > refers to the person rather than the position), if we're in an improper > context, we've basically circled back around to labeling the roles, only > these role

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

@yahoo.com> >> *Cc:* Caller's discussion list <call...@sharedweight.net>; Andrea >> Nettleton <twirly-g...@bellsouth.net> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 2, 2015 8:45 AM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling >> >>

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

bellsouth.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2015 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling If you want to redefine "corner" as a person, not a position...On Jun 2, 2015 10:41 AM, "Perry Shafran via Callers" <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

ur choreography with "second corner" and "ladies" with "first >> corner". >> >> Perry >> >> -- >> *From:* Andrea Nettleton via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> >> *To:* Michael F

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

allers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> > *To:* Michael Fuerst <mjerryfue...@yahoo.com> > *Cc:* "call...@sharedweight.net" <call...@sharedweight.net> > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 2, 2015 2:31 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calli

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

From: Andrea Nettleton via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> To: Michael Fuerst <mjerryfue...@yahoo.com> Cc: "call...@sharedweight.net" <call...@sharedweight.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2015 2:31 AM Subject: Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling Hey

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

While I still see the appeal of corners in principle, this is a ton of explanation for those of us who already are well versed in dance. For the objections stated, I don't see using corners is feasible replacement terms. And I don't see restricting dances to ones not requiring role/position terms

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

On Mon, Jun 01, 2015, Bob Stein via Callers wrote: > > This discussion of ECD just made me realize that the one move that is > usually specifically gender related -- Ladies Chain -- is actually 2nd > corners chain. If the idea of first and second corners is introduced > to contra dancers than

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

Actually Alan, because we dance improper most frequently, and becket almost as much, I think I really don't want the labels applied to people so they stick. I'm just using the word corner the way Brooke and Chris use diagonal. In contra, we already have a use for the word diagonal, meaning

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

An approach to subtle gender free calling is to choose choreographies where both members of the couple do the same thing. Really traditional contra dances often have this feature, as well as lots of English dances which were not composed with that in mind. Chorus Jigg is one of those

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

I'm not Andrea but as someone who's appreciated the value of global calling since Chris and Brooke proselytized our West Coast English caller self improvement group about it in 2000 and who regularly uses it even in not gender free English as well as for gender free English I think I can

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

I can think of two ways to tell which corner is which at any given time during a teach. When facing Across IN ANY GIVEN HANDS FOUR, if you have a R diagonal person you are at first corner, L diagonal- second corner. Likewise WITHIN a hands four, facing up and down (like at the beginning of a

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

Michael, Partners neighbors and shadows have not changed. Corners as accurately designates which two dancers must allemande as any other designation, with the bonus that they don't even have to be the same role. You could put the N you intend to swing on the diagonal by making the dance

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

I'm feeling really thick in the head in reading these discussion thread.  How do you explain to the dancers who is a first corner and who is second corner.  How do you explain swinging and who should end in which spot?Isn't 1st corner and 2nd corner the way you are using them just another

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

.net Subject: Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling List-Post: callers@lists.sharedweight.net Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2015 21:30:48 -0400 This discussion of ECD just made me realize that the one move that is usually specifically gender related -- Ladies Chain -- is actually 2nd c

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

This discussion of ECD just made me realize that the one move that is usually specifically gender related -- Ladies Chain -- is actually 2nd corners chain. If the idea of first and second corners is introduced to contra dancers than there would be no problem with most of the moves: chains,

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

Jim, I think this approach is great for adding more dances with choice. ... but at some point, people want advanced dances and/or medleys, and limiting the move-set I don't find an acceptable compromise. -Ron On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 7:22 PM, Jim Hemphill wrote: > Proper

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

Proper Dance, gender free yet not too simple A1 Neighbor allemande left 1 1/2 1st corners allemande right 1 1/2 A2 Scoop your partner as you go by, star promenade then butterfly 2nd corners swing in the center, then separate B1 Partner balance and swing B2 Take hands in a ring, balance

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

How can one simply, consistently  and clearly designate two persons to participate in an allemande ? Michael Fuerst      802 N Broadway      Urbana IL 61801  217 239 5844 On Monday, June 1, 2015 5:41 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers wrote: RE:

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

RE: Dave: Clockwise / counterclockwise - too wordy, and some people have trouble with this regardless. Hey: What about on the left diagonal? Along the set? I also really don't like the blaming of the dance if it's not 100% intuitive. Plenty of dances flow great but have a counter-intuitive

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

On 6/1/2015 10:23 AM, Dave Casserly via Callers wrote: Also with regard to Ron's questions, numbers 2 and 3 (who-leads-whom and who-walks-forward) can be handled by using the terms "clockwise" and "counterclockwise." As to 4 (who passes whom for a hey), I agree with Bob that if the dance is

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

ntra dance with 1st and 2nd corners (Centennial Reel) recently.   Perry From: Bob Morgan via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> To: Ron Blechner <contra...@gmail.com> Cc: Caller's discussion list <call...@sharedweight.net> Sent: Monday, June 1, 2015 10:41 AM S

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

Andrea, how would you handle the following: 1. Lines of one role/position to the center to a wavy line, as in Trip to Lambertville, et all? 2. Indication of who walks forward / backs up in a gypsy star? 3. Indication of who-leads-who, such as in Ramsay Chase, Pedal Pushers, Jurassic Redheads,

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

In previous discussions here, on FB, and privately with organizers at Hampshire over the last two years, I have discussed the possible use of global terminology for gender free contra. I would contend that if used, everyone would become more aware of the structure of dances. Only the most

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

Jim, thank you for testing this! It is precisely what I was trying to describe in my previous email--dances which are themselves gender-free both in their teaching and base pattern without need for term changes. They don't have to be custom-created (as I kind of suggested previously), but they

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

A friend told me about Brooke Friendly's style of calling ECD and that was part of the inspiration for this contra program. Jim On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 9:24 AM, Roger Hayes wrote: > Check out Brooke Friendly and Chris Sackett's English Country dances - > they use

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

Check out Brooke Friendly and Chris Sackett's English Country dances - they use "geographic" terms, and structure the dances without gender roles. It's different, but the dance does keep changing, it's a live art. http://www.brookefriendlydance.com/ Aside from Mr. Hemphill's effort recently here

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

This is a relatively common thing to do in ECD, called global terminology . I attended an open calling event on Saturday night that was billed as gender-free, and there were two dances that used no role identifiers at all, if I recall right. It works well

Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

Jim - I don't think I am alone in wondering how you managed this without telling the dancers. I take that to mean you didn't make it gender free by the terminology you used (jets or whatever) but by the kinds of dances you chose. I'd love to read more details about what this entailed. Please

[Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

The recent discussions on this topic inspired me to try an experiment in gender free calling. Last night I called the contra dance in St. Louis using gender free calling without telling anyone.The experiment was a great success. I received lots of positive feedback on the evenings dance.