Re: Setting up database for mvc website

2012-07-31 Thread Don
I had to look up 'orthogonal' - And now I'm even more confused! Thanks guys! =) Is this what you are asking? are there any architectural considerations in database design to match what is needed by an MVC architecture? I see that as a legit question as some specific MVC engines/frameworks

Re: Setting up database for mvc website

2012-07-31 Thread Russ Michaels
? are there any architectural considerations in database design to match what is needed by an MVC architecture? I see that as a legit question as some specific MVC engines/frameworks that are by convention, such as CFWheels, prefer certain conventions in, for example, database naming

Re: Setting up database for mvc website

2012-07-29 Thread Matt Quackenbush
over simplifying things here, but the database is the database. It is not part of the MVC architecture. M is Model. V is View. C is Controller. MVC doesn't give a rat's about the database. Hell, MVC doesn't even require a database! The bottom line is that MVC is about the separation of concerns

Re: Setting up database for mvc website

2012-07-29 Thread Andrew Scott
bliss.j...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps it'd help you to check out a framework that does MVC and see how the tables/columns are setup in that DB...? For example: http://cfwheels.org/docs/1-1/chapter/beginner-tutorial-hello-database

Re: Setting up database for mvc website

2012-07-29 Thread Matt Quackenbush
your ORM (Hibernate, Transfer. Reactor, etc.) handle the schema design. Obviously I am over simplifying things here, but the database is the database. It is not part of the MVC architecture. M is Model. V is View. C is Controller. MVC doesn't give a rat's about the database. Hell, MVC doesn't

Re: Setting up database for mvc website

2012-07-29 Thread Gerald Guido
The MVC design pattern is pretty much orthogonal to the design of the database. In fact one of the goals of MVC is to hide the particulars of your model from the rest of your application. Your data could come from a number of different sources (a database, XML, an RSS feed, web service

Re: Setting up database for mvc website

2012-07-29 Thread Cameron Childress
On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 9:04 PM, Don danfar...@hotmail.com wrote: What are some best practices in structuring the website database to accomodate good integration with an MVC model? MVC is really doesn't have anything to do with the database structure. The closest you'd get to anything having

Re: Setting up database for mvc website

2012-07-29 Thread Don
Is this what you are asking? are there any architectural considerations in database design to match what is needed by an MVC architecture? I see that as a legit question as some specific MVC engines/frameworks that are by convention, such as CFWheels, prefer certain conventions

Re: Setting up database for mvc website

2012-07-29 Thread John M Bliss
/113032480415921517411 http://plus.google.com/108193156965451149543 On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 9:37 PM, John M Bliss bliss.j...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps it'd help you to check out a framework that does MVC and see how the tables/columns are setup in that DB...? For example: http://cfwheels.org

Re: Setting up database for mvc website

2012-07-29 Thread Dave Watts
Is this what you are asking? are there any architectural considerations in database design to match what is needed by an MVC architecture? I see that as a legit question as some specific MVC engines/frameworks that are by convention, such as CFWheels, prefer certain conventions

Re: Setting up database for mvc website

2012-07-29 Thread Andrew Scott
@John, Thought that might be the case, just needed to confirm. @Don, I think it is easy to get mixed up with so many things to learn at times, but take a step back for a minute and have a think about if the project your working on already had a database designed. The code is shunky and in need

Re: Setting up database for mvc website

2012-07-28 Thread Don
Speaking from a purist perspective, the database has nothing to do with MVC. Perhaps you should ask more specific questions so folks can have an idea of what you're really after? HTH It doesn't help at all actually. Anyone else

Re: Setting up database for mvc website

2012-07-28 Thread Don
Sounds to me like you didn't understand the question! Speaking from a purist perspective, the database has nothing to do with MVC. Perhaps you should ask more specific questions so folks can have an idea of what you're really after? HTH What are some best practices in structuring

Re: Setting up database for mvc website

2012-07-28 Thread Andrew Scott
Well I am not sure what your looking at achieving either, the question you posed was answered correctly. The thing that you need to take into consideration, that everything you do whether it is MVC or not has nothing to do with the design of a database. The reason behind this is that something

Re: Setting up database for mvc website

2012-07-28 Thread Kym Kovan
On 28/07/2012 5:52 PM, Don wrote: Sounds to me like you didn't understand the question! Is this what you are asking? are there any architectural considerations in database design to match what is needed by an MVC architecture? I see that as a legit question as some specific MVC engines

Re: Setting up database for mvc website

2012-07-28 Thread John M Bliss
Perhaps it'd help you to check out a framework that does MVC and see how the tables/columns are setup in that DB...? For example: http://cfwheels.org/docs/1-1/chapter/beginner-tutorial-hello-database On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 4:54 AM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.auwrote: Well I am

Re: Setting up database for mvc website

2012-07-28 Thread Matt Quackenbush
, etc.) handle the schema design. Obviously I am over simplifying things here, but the database is the database. It is not part of the MVC architecture. M is Model. V is View. C is Controller. MVC doesn't give a rat's about the database. Hell, MVC doesn't even require a database! The bottom line

Setting up database for mvc website

2012-07-27 Thread Don
What are some best practices in structuring the website database to accomodate good integration with an MVC model? ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155

Re: Setting up database for mvc website

2012-07-27 Thread Matt Quackenbush
Speaking from a purist perspective, the database has nothing to do with MVC. Perhaps you should ask more specific questions so folks can have an idea of what you're really after? HTH On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Don danfar...@hotmail.com wrote: What are some best practices

SOT: JavaScript MVC with Ember.js

2012-05-15 Thread andy matthews
Today Devnet released an article that I wrote on a JavaScript MVC framework called Ember.js. http://www.adobe.com/devnet/html5.html If you're familiar with Backbone, Spine, or Angular, then you might be interested in this article. Hope you like it. andy

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-07 Thread Michael Grant
Grant [mailto:mgr...@modus.bz] Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 5:24 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Know it to be true? Nobody knows it except the people at Google. Why risk someone's hunch that's it isn't true? At best what do you gain if you're

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-07 Thread Justin Scott
And when it comes to SEO mojo why risk it? That's a non-argument that I hear from so-called SEO experts all the time with little or no data to back it up. It's a fear-based approach that really has no validity in and of itself. Show me a controlled experiment. Show me a definitive statement

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-07 Thread Mark A. Kruger
I'm not trying to rob you Bilbo... I'm trying to help you. -mk -Original Message- From: Michael Grant [mailto:mgr...@modus.bz] Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 5:25 AM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework I'm not going head to head with anyone. I just

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-07 Thread Dave Watts
So you're reacting to the word mojo? Yeah, I am. Because, in every other area of computing, when you do something you can measure and verify the effects. Once you lose that ability to measure, you don't have anything worth buying. You seem to have a personal axe to grind here. Did you get

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-07 Thread Dave Watts
I'm not going head to head with anyone. I just know I've come to my conclusions about SEO based on personal experience and the opinions of others in this community who I respect. The owner of this list being one of them. I don't really care to argue about. If DW thinks I'm wrong that's the

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-07 Thread Dave Watts
Plus I think he's an Old Milwaukee guy (chi tea? Ouch!) Fortunately, at this stage of my life I can do a bit better than Old Milwaukee! I just went to Belgium recently - now that's some good beer. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-07 Thread David McGraw
Well Dave, I would say in that instance, their Mojo would just be considered their tried and true techniques to get results. Just as all of us developers use tried and true functions, frameworks, etc... which give us advantages, or Mojo, over other development companies. I do agree that it is

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-07 Thread Michael Grant
Just as a point of note. I'm not an SEO expert. I don't call myself an SEO expert. I don't even offer SEO services other than the routine methodology I employ when building a site. These aren't the droids you're looking for. On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Justin Scott

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-07 Thread Mark A. Kruger
On behalf of my friends in Wisconsin... what's wrong with Old Milwaukee? -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com] Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 10:16 AM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Plus I think he's an Old

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-07 Thread Judah McAuley
It's like making love in a canoe. On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 9:42 AM, Mark A. Kruger mkru...@cfwebtools.com wrote: On behalf of my friends in Wisconsin... what's wrong with Old Milwaukee? ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-07 Thread Dave Watts
On behalf of my friends in Wisconsin... what's wrong with Old Milwaukee? If you get full before you get drunk, something's not right. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-07 Thread Mark A. Kruger
You mean not so fun when you do it but a great story to tell later?? -Original Message- From: Judah McAuley [mailto:ju...@wiredotter.com] Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 11:48 AM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework It's like making love in a canoe

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-07 Thread Michael Grant
To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework It's like making love in a canoe. On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 9:42 AM, Mark A. Kruger mkru...@cfwebtools.com wrote: On behalf of my friends in Wisconsin... what's wrong with Old Milwaukee

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-07 Thread Gerald Guido
It's like making love in a canoe. +1 That's not a beer. THIS is a beer: tp:// stickandballguy.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/baltika9.jpg You mean not so fun when you do it but a great story to tell later?? It is F-ing close to water. G! On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Judah McAuley

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-07 Thread Judah McAuley
[mailto:ju...@wiredotter.com] Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 11:48 AM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework It's like making love in a canoe. On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 9:42 AM, Mark A. Kruger mkru...@cfwebtools.com wrote: On behalf of my friends in Wisconsin

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-07 Thread Mark A. Kruger
Well I know I asked for it... but I'm offended all the same (ha). -Original Message- From: Judah McAuley [mailto:ju...@wiredotter.com] Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 12:12 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework No, it's fucking close to water

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-07 Thread Justin Scott
Just as a point of note. I'm not an SEO expert. Nor am I, and I didn't say that you were, just pointing out that your argument is one that I hear people who claim to be. -Justin ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-07 Thread Russ Michaels
I disagree Russ -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com] Sent: 07 January 2011 16:14 To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework I'm not going head to head with anyone. I just know I've come to my conclusions about SEO based

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-06 Thread Scott Brady
I don't think the SEO-unfriendliness of running everything through index.cfm has been an issue for a very long time. They used to have an issue with indexing query strings / dynamic URLs, but not any more. Maybe some of the smaller ones still do, but the major ones definitely do not. Really, if

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-06 Thread Michael Grant
It's not an issue in that Google can't crawl you. It's an issue in that Google will rank this: mysite.com/Cars/BMW/X3 Higher than this: mysite.com?cat=carsmaker=bmwstyle=x3 On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 6:39 AM, Scott Brady dsbr...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think the SEO-unfriendliness of

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-06 Thread Justin Scott
It's not an issue in that Google can't crawl you. It's an issue in that Google will rank this: mysite.com/Cars/BMW/X3 Higher than this: mysite.com?cat=carsmaker=bmwstyle=x3 I realize that is a common belief, but I have never seen any compelling evidence to back up the claim. If there's a

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-06 Thread Mark A. Kruger
, January 06, 2011 8:24 AM To: cf-talk Subject: RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework It's not an issue in that Google can't crawl you. It's an issue in that Google will rank this: mysite.com/Cars/BMW/X3 Higher than this: mysite.com?cat=carsmaker=bmwstyle=x3 I realize

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-06 Thread Russ Michaels
...@cfwebtools.com] Sent: 06 January 2011 14:51 To: cf-talk Subject: RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Justin, I used to be in your camp but I've reversed course. I now believe that having a semantic url actually does matter - as opposed to simply url params. I'm basing this on working

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-06 Thread Dave Watts
I don't think the SEO-unfriendliness of running everything through index.cfm has been an issue for a very long time.  They used to have an issue with indexing query strings / dynamic URLs, but not any more.  Maybe some of the smaller ones still do, but the major ones definitely do not.

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-06 Thread Dave Watts
It's not an issue in that Google can't crawl you. It's an issue in that Google will rank this: mysite.com/Cars/BMW/X3 Higher than this: mysite.com?cat=carsmaker=bmwstyle=x3 I would be a bit surprised if that's true. Both URLs contain obvious, easily-read data. Google is full of smart

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-06 Thread Michael Grant
Well it was an example case. Most url vars aren't as easy to read as my fake example. It would probably be more like mysite.com?id=1345238 On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Dave Watts dwa...@figleaf.com wrote: It's not an issue in that Google can't crawl you. It's an issue in that Google

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-06 Thread Dave Watts
It's not an issue in that Google can't crawl you. It's an issue in that Google will rank this: mysite.com/Cars/BMW/X3 Higher than this: mysite.com?cat=carsmaker=bmwstyle=x3 I would be a bit surprised if that's true. Both URLs contain obvious, easily-read data. Google

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-06 Thread Sean Corfield
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 4:58 AM, Michael Grant mgr...@modus.bz wrote: It's not an issue in that Google can't crawl you. It's an issue in that Google will rank this: mysite.com/Cars/BMW/X3 Higher than this: mysite.com?cat=carsmaker=bmwstyle=x3 Very likely but most frameworks support basic

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-06 Thread Michael Grant
Yes they are. However I believe my original point (minus my supporting argument) is still valid. Well structured urls are better than url vars. Or at least that's what I've always known to be true. And when it comes to SEO mojo why risk it? On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 5:03 PM, Dave Watts

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-06 Thread Dave Watts
Yes they are. However I believe my original point (minus my supporting argument) is still valid. Well structured urls are better than url vars.  Or at least that's what I've always known to be true. And when it comes to SEO mojo why risk it? URL parameters, by themselves, don't prevent a URL

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-06 Thread Michael Grant
Know it to be true? Nobody knows it except the people at Google. Why risk someone's hunch that's it isn't true? At best what do you gain if you're right? Save a few hours dev time? And at worst? You lose search engine rank which can have disastrous effects on a company. To me it's not worth the

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-06 Thread Dave Watts
Know it to be true? Nobody knows it except the people at Google. Why risk someone's hunch that's it isn't true? At best what do you gain if you're right? Save a few hours dev time? And at worst? You lose search engine rank which can have disastrous effects on a company. To me it's not worth

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-06 Thread Michael Grant
So you're reacting to the word mojo? You seem to have a personal axe to grind here. Did you get taken by an SEO guy selling snake oil? On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Dave Watts dwa...@figleaf.com wrote: Know it to be true? Nobody knows it except the people at Google. Why risk someone's

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-06 Thread Russ Michaels
I really don't think Dave has any Axe to grind, they are after all just true facts he has stated,perhaps he may have gone a bit OTT in calling SEO experts snake oil salesmen though. Every field has its experts, so an SEO expert is really no different than a CSS expert or a user interface expert,

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-06 Thread Mark A. Kruger
(MVC) Framework Know it to be true? Nobody knows it except the people at Google. Why risk someone's hunch that's it isn't true? At best what do you gain if you're right? Save a few hours dev time? And at worst? You lose search engine rank which can have disastrous effects on a company. To me it's

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-05 Thread Russ Michaels
Steve, I'm personally not sure if yet another framework is needed, we have quite a few now from simple (cfwheels or FW/1) for all singing all dancing OOP behemoths (ColdBox) but kudos for trying and I hope it works out for you. While I think all these security concerns are valid, and it would be

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-05 Thread Steve Bryant
Russ, Thanks for your comment and encouragement. The scrutiny is certainly valid. I don't think the problem is as serious as it first appeared, but it is with regard to all uploaded files handled by the framework so it is a pretty significant area of concern and definitely something I am

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-05 Thread Russ Michaels
-Original Message- From: Steve Bryant [mailto:st...@bryantwebconsulting.com] Sent: 05 January 2011 17:39 To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Russ, Thanks for your comment and encouragement. The scrutiny is certainly valid. I don't think the problem

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-05 Thread Steve Bryant
Exactly! No need to set up URL rewriting and if you want to edit content for the URL /my-folder/my-file.cfm then just open the file at that location and edit it. If you want to set up some URL rewriting so that the URL is /my-folder/my-file/ (or anything else) instead, nothing in the

Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Steve Bryant
Hello fellow CFers, I just released a beta of a new ColdFusion framework called Neptune and I would love to get some beta testers to help me find bugs or make suggestions on how it could be improved. We have been using it internally for a few years on several projects, so I am curious to see

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Mark A. Kruger
:28 AM To: cf-talk Subject: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Hello fellow CFers, I just released a beta of a new ColdFusion framework called Neptune and I would love to get some beta testers to help me find bugs or make suggestions on how it could be improved. We have been using

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Andrew Scott
:28 AM To: cf-talk Subject: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Hello fellow CFers, I just released a beta of a new ColdFusion framework called Neptune and I would love to get some beta testers to help me find bugs or make suggestions on how it could be improved. We have been

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Eric Cobb
this is configurable. Regards, Andrew Scott http://www.andyscott.id.au/ -Original Message- From: Steve Bryant [mailto:st...@bryantwebconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 5 January 2011 3:28 AM To: cf-talk Subject: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Hello fellow CFers, I just released

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Steve Bryant
Andrew, The default folder for uploading files has a Application.cfm that just contains cfabort to help mitigate that risk. Assuming the uploads themselves limit file types allowed, how serious a risk do you think that is? Also, yes, easy to configure. Just change the UploadPath setting in

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Andrew Scott
://www.andyscott.id.au/ -Original Message- From: Steve Bryant [mailto:st...@bryantwebconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 5 January 2011 7:01 AM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Andrew, The default folder for uploading files has

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Steve Bryant
Andrew, I'll have to ponder that. Right now the following XML would create a table with two file fields, one of which would accept only images and the other would accept only vcard files. table entity=Contact field name=ContactImage Label=Image type=image folder=images / field

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Duane Boudreau
Wouldn't it be sufficient to make the folder write and read only leaving off the public execute privilege? -Original Message- From: Steve Bryant [mailto:st...@bryantwebconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 4:38 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Steve Bryant
Duane, Good question. I would think so, but I am not expert enough on the topic to be confident of that. I believe I have that set already in the folder in the zip as well as in the download created from the generator. If not, I will correct. Anyone know a reason why that would not be

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Andrew Scott
/ -Original Message- From: Steve Bryant [mailto:st...@bryantwebconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 5 January 2011 7:38 AM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Andrew, I'll have to ponder that. Right now the following XML would create a table with two file

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread David McGraw
To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Andrew, I'll have to ponder that. Right now the following XML would create a table with two file fields, one of which would accept only images and the other would accept only vcard files. table entity

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Steve Bryant
Andrew, Correct me if I am mistaken, but I thought that was if the system was checking *only* mime-type. The framework checks both mime-type AND file extension. I did check on that at the time of that exploit and ensured that our framework was protected from that exploit. If I have missed

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Steve Bryant
David, That is certainly another point altogether. As I said, the framework does allow you to configure location and URL path for uploaded files which *should* allow a URL path like /file.cfm?file=. I have added testing that as a relatively high-priority task for my next round of work on the

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread David McGraw
Yeah, I wasn't knocking it... On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 5:15 PM, Steve Bryant st...@bryantwebconsulting.comwrote: David, That is certainly another point altogether. As I said, the framework does allow you to configure location and URL path for uploaded files which *should* allow a URL path

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Andrew Scott
...@bryantwebconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 5 January 2011 9:12 AM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Andrew, Correct me if I am mistaken, but I thought that was if the system was checking *only* mime-type. The framework checks both mime-type

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread David McGraw
Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Andrew, Correct me if I am mistaken, but I thought that was if the system was checking *only* mime-type. The framework checks both mime-type AND file extension. I did check on that at the time of that exploit and ensured

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Andrew Scott
[mailto:david.mcg...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 5 January 2011 9:31 AM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework How would CF server know to process a .cfm file unless you pre-configured your IIS or Apache to tell CF to process and execute PNGs? I'm honestly asking. I

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Ian Skinner
Both mime types and file extensions can be spoofed by a hacker as both are just data that hackers can manipulate on their end of the client-server relationship. Unless you are running code that actually inspects the content of the file to confirm that it matches the file type and the mime

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Steve Bryant
Andrew, You just hit me with a You should know that and a Steve needs to understand I get that you have a headache, but I am not trying to fight you on this. I am really just trying to get a feel for the threat-level so I can decide on the appropriate action(s) to take. It sounds like

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Steve Bryant
Ian, I'm not sure that is exactly accurate. A mime-type can certainly be spoofed, no debate there. A file extension can be *changed*, but (unless I understand incorrectly), the server is going to decide how to handle a file based on the extension. So, for example, you may save a ColdFusion

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Andrew Scott
9:45 AM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Andrew, You just hit me with a You should know that and a Steve needs to understand I get that you have a headache, but I am not trying to fight you on this. I am really just trying to get a feel

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread David McGraw
I think the fear would be if an EXE was uploaded as a CFM file... Regards, David @ Oyova - http://www.oyova.com On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Steve Bryant st...@bryantwebconsulting.comwrote: Ian, I'm not sure that is exactly accurate. A mime-type can certainly be spoofed, no debate

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Andrew Scott
What about *.jsp files, or even aspx or asp files? Regards, Andrew Scott http://www.andyscott.id.au/ -Original Message- From: Steve Bryant [mailto:st...@bryantwebconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 5 January 2011 9:53 AM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread David McGraw
, Andrew Scott http://www.andyscott.id.au/ -Original Message- From: Steve Bryant [mailto:st...@bryantwebconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 5 January 2011 9:53 AM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Ian, Even if it was, Application.cfm

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Steve Bryant
Andrew, Definitely a good point which is why I mentioned modifying the framework to have black-listed file extensions that would have to be explicitly allowed for a field. I do think, however, that I should have a note on the section about uploading files that a list of allowed extensions

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Andrew Scott
To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Andrew, Definitely a good point which is why I mentioned modifying the framework to have black-listed file extensions that would have to be explicitly allowed for a field. I do think, however, that I should have

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Mark A. Kruger
(MVC) Framework David, That is certainly another point altogether. As I said, the framework does allow you to configure location and URL path for uploaded files which *should* allow a URL path like /file.cfm?file=. I have added testing that as a relatively high-priority task for my next round

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Mark A. Kruger
[mailto:st...@bryantwebconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 4:53 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Ian, I'm not sure that is exactly accurate. A mime-type can certainly be spoofed, no debate there. A file extension can be *changed*, but (unless I

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread David McGraw
: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 4:53 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Ian, I'm not sure that is exactly accurate. A mime-type can certainly be spoofed, no debate there. A file extension can be *changed*, but (unless I understand incorrectly), the server

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Sean Corfield
On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 8:27 AM, Steve Bryant st...@bryantwebconsulting.com wrote: I think it is quite a bit unlike any other ColdFusion framework out there. It isn't hub-and-spoke (where all requests are routed through index.cfm, for example). It doesn't require OO. It does, however, provide

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Steve Bryant
Mark, I actually remember reading that blog post when it came out (I always love your blog, by the way). To be honest, I don't remember if I am doing that validation in place or not. Certainly this does demonstrate that it shouldn't be done in place - and I will address that if it is. I am

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Andrew Scott
Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Mark, I actually remember reading that blog post when it came out (I always love your blog, by the way). To be honest, I don't remember if I am doing that validation in place or not. Certainly this does demonstrate that it shouldn't

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Mark A. Kruger
Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Mark, I actually remember reading that blog post when it came out (I always love your blog, by the way). To be honest, I don't remember if I am doing that validation in place or not. Certainly this does demonstrate that it shouldn't be done

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Steve Bryant
Mark, Good to know. I certainly understand about future threats, but I think this is sufficient to keep my current approach (with the modifications outlined) with only a relatively mild warning about putting files outside the web root (but a major one about white listing extensions). Maybe I

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Mark A. Kruger
of everything eh :) -mark -Original Message- From: Steve Bryant [mailto:st...@bryantwebconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 9:43 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Mark, Good to know. I certainly understand about future threats, but I think

RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Andrew Scott
from the URL. Regards, Andrew Scott http://www.andyscott.id.au/ -Original Message- From: Mark A. Kruger [mailto:mkru...@cfwebtools.com] Sent: Wednesday, 5 January 2011 3:04 PM To: cf-talk Subject: RE: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework Steve, Ok... given your

Re: Beta Tester Wanted for new CF (MVC) Framework

2011-01-04 Thread Steve Bryant
Yeah, not being able to disable execute permissions would be annoying, but I think the other protections should still cover the possibilities pretty well. Nonetheless, that probably does deserve a note in the docs (including we would recommend finding another host). Just to clarify, I do

MVC Services Gateways

2010-11-15 Thread Clint Willard
Wondering if these checks belong in a gateway, I'll keep it simple: Assuming I want my service to update a user object only if there's no user using the username or email provided by the submitted form. UserService.cfc public void function updateUser(username,password,email){ var userid = 0;

Difference between 3 tier architecture and MVC pattern

2010-01-18 Thread funand learning
Hi All, I was trying to understand the concepts of fusebox and came across MVC design pattern, Can anyone please help me in understanding the difference between MVC and 3 tier architecture. I am confused as both are concerened with separation of layers? Thanks

Re: Difference between 3 tier architecture and MVC pattern

2010-01-18 Thread Barney Boisvert
MVC is a pattern for structuring your UI-layer code, while a three tier architecture is about how your hardware is laid out. MVC is about separating the request processing code from the state (model) code and from the display (view) code. The three all worth together to deal with a user

Re: Difference between 3 tier architecture and MVC pattern

2010-01-18 Thread Sean Corfield
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Barney Boisvert bboisv...@gmail.com wrote: Three tier architecture is about physically separating your presentation code (typically an MVC application) from your business logic (typically a set of business objects) and your persistence layer (a database) onto

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