On May 22, 10:53 pm, Laurent PETIT laurent.pe...@gmail.com wrote:
Your discussion has been slowly getting me into the mindstate that
I'll add this missing reindent whole file/current selection feature
in CCW, AH !
Or, perhaps into a separate library so we can use your reindenting
feature in
2011/5/23 Daniel Werner daniel.d.wer...@googlemail.com:
On May 22, 10:53 pm, Laurent PETIT laurent.pe...@gmail.com wrote:
Your discussion has been slowly getting me into the mindstate that
I'll add this missing reindent whole file/current selection feature
in CCW, AH !
Or, perhaps into a
2011/5/22 mike.w.me...@gmail.com m...@mired.org:
Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
If I understand correctly you're suggesting that a user working with an
editor and a REPL, which aren't connected
That being the mimimal configuration that I think of as useabe.
, run something in the
Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
On May 20, 2011, at 3:30 PM, David Nolen wrote:
Ah I thought you were talking about proper automatic indentation as
you enter in code not selective *re-indentation*. As far as I can tell
in the existing Clojure tools there are only varying degrees of
On May 21, 2011, at 4:47 PM, mike.w.me...@gmail.com wrote:
Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
The reason that I think that this re-indenting feature is so important [etc]
This is an important feature, and I had overlooked it - but does it have to
be available in the editor?
Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
On May 21, 2011, at 4:47 PM, mike.w.me...@gmail.com wrote:
So, instead of having an editor command region/function reindent to
show the actual structure of the code, maybe you need to switch to a
repl and run (indent-code myfile.clj) to see what the
On May 21, 2011, at 5:43 PM, mike.w.me...@gmail.com wrote:
I agree that having to cut paste code to get a pretty printed version isn't
useable - which is why I didn't suggest that. I suggested a function that
would take a file name and pretty print the contents as code, which is as
Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
If I understand correctly you're suggesting that a user working with an
editor and a REPL, which aren't connected
That being the mimimal configuration that I think of as useabe.
, run something in the REPL to see the structure of the code.
Not
On May 21, 2011, at 6:47 PM, mike.w.me...@gmail.com wrote:
This is a *different* problem than the one being solved, which is getting an
accurate representation of the structure of the code. In particular, it's
different enough that I don't think it makes the required list for a minimal
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 12:26 AM, michele michelemen...@gmail.com wrote:
It's not really the Emacs tools that are a problem, but the huge
amount of web pages trying - with good intentions - to help you
installing the Emacs-Clojure stack, but usually lacking some important
detail. It feels like
On May 19, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Korny Sietsma wrote:
Experienced developers (who are likely to grok clojure) probably already use
one of ant / rake / maven / sbt etc.
Experienced with what? is the question. Those coming from the Lisp world, who
are likely both to grok and to be ready to love
Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
On May 19, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Korny Sietsma wrote:
Experienced developers (who are likely to grok clojure) probably
already use one of ant / rake / maven / sbt etc.
Experienced with what? is the question. Those coming from the Lisp
world, who are
On May 19, 2011, at 7:43 PM, mike.w.me...@gmail.com wrote:
The download the massive IDE path seems to presume that a newcomer actually
needs something more than a simple REPL in order to get started. I'd claim
that's wrong - at least in a world where any computer you'd run clojure on
can
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
I agree that there's a sweet spot for newcomers here, where one uses a
simple REPL (possibly invoked with lein) and an editor that's not tightly
coupled, which should make it easier to provide a unified and idiot-proof
On May 20, 2011, at 9:48 AM, David Nolen wrote:
The JEdit mode for Clojure has auto-indenting and bracket matching and it
works just fine for me. If you weren't able to get that to work did you try
contacting the maintainer of the mode?
Not that I recall but I did mention it in a
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.eduwrote:
On May 20, 2011, at 9:48 AM, David Nolen wrote:
The JEdit mode for Clojure has auto-indenting and bracket matching and it
works just fine for me. If you weren't able to get that to work did you try
contacting the
On May 20, 12:03 am, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 12:26 AM, michele michelemen...@gmail.com wrote:
It's not really the Emacs tools that are a problem, but the huge
amount of web pages trying - with good intentions - to help you
installing the Emacs-Clojure
To clarify, David, when you say it just worked you mean that when you select
Edit Indent Indent lines then the line containing the insertion point is
moved (left or right, as appropriate) to conform to standard Lisp indentation
conventions with respect to the code above it (e.g. with respect
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 3:04 PM, Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
To clarify, David, when you say it just worked you mean that when you
select Edit Indent Indent lines then the line containing the insertion
point is moved (left or right, as appropriate) to conform to standard Lisp
On May 20, 2011, at 3:30 PM, David Nolen wrote:
Ah I thought you were talking about proper automatic indentation as you enter
in code not selective *re-indentation*. As far as I can tell in the existing
Clojure tools there are only varying degrees of interpretation as to what
constitutes
Hi
On 20 May 2011 21:04, Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
To clarify, David, when you say it just worked you mean that when you
select Edit Indent Indent lines then the line containing the insertion
point is moved (left or right, as appropriate) to conform to standard Lisp
On May 20, 2011, at 5:08 PM, Michael Wood wrote:
So maybe the problem you're having is that jEdit can't find the
clojure.xml mode file?
Not sure, but it does say I'm in Clojure mode... I'm using Mac OS X, BTW...
It sounds from your other descriptions of your own experience like this
On 20 May 2011 23:07, Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
[...]
BTW from what I can tell JEdit doesn't even do reasonable automatic
indentation as you enter code in the first place. If I type (defn foo and
hit return the cursor ends up under the second o in foo, and that seems
pretty
On 20 May 2011 23:25, Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
On May 20, 2011, at 5:08 PM, Michael Wood wrote:
So maybe the problem you're having is that jEdit can't find the
clojure.xml mode file?
Not sure, but it does say I'm in Clojure mode... I'm using Mac OS X, BTW...
It sounds
On 05/19/2011 02:06 AM, Sean Corfield wrote:
I've actually found the Clojure community to be one of the most
welcoming and most helpful of almost any technology that I've picked
up in about 30 years. YMMV, I guess, and I'm sure it depends on your
programming background.
Same here, except 30
I think there are a few things most people agree about:
- The people in the comunity are genaraly very nice and help noobs
(stackoverflow, irc. mailinglist ...)
- Clojure.org has very cool content.
- Clojure.org is not a good place for noob
So i propose some things that I think would make a
On May 18, 5:06 pm, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote:
I've seen a number of people struggle with the instructions here:
http://clojure.org/getting_started
Let's walk thru the process from a complete n00b's p.o.v. (since this
is the Getting Started page)...
First thing discussed,
The official way to get started has way too many sharp edges
(Download JDK, install, set JAVA_HOME, add JAVA_HOME/bin to path, download
clojure.zip, extract, sacrifice chicken, run java -cp clojure.jar clojure.main)
... at which point you get a kinda crappy REPL. Oops.
Compare to (on linux):
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 5:35 PM, pmbauer paul.michael.ba...@gmail.com wrote:
The official way to get started has way too many sharp edges
(Download JDK, install, set JAVA_HOME, add JAVA_HOME/bin to path, download
clojure.zip, extract, sacrifice chicken, run java -cp clojure.jar
clojure.main)
The recommended way definitely should be one of the painless installs.
This works:
* Download NetBeans, configuring on the NB homepage for J2SE, and run
installer
So does this:
* Download Eclipse J2SE
Sure, but that's still a lot of work just to get a simple repl.
The easiest
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 5:50 PM, pmbauer paul.michael.ba...@gmail.com wrote:
The recommended way definitely should be one of the painless installs.
This works:
* Download NetBeans, configuring on the NB homepage for J2SE, and run
installer
So does this:
* Download Eclipse J2SE
If ALL you want is a SIMPLE repl you can just go to the tryclojure site. :)
Not quite.
As far as official disto's go, the current state is a little raw for getting
started
And having the official getting started instructions be (as you suggested)
So now you go download this 100MB IDE is a
Scala gets parallel collections (i.e. leverage multi-core CPUs)
http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/05/scala-29;jsessionid=BCF6B009442F5F0D9C18A06D3790C3DA
just to give this thread a new spark...:)
2011/5/19 Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 5:50 PM, pmbauer
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 5:58 PM, pmbauer paul.michael.ba...@gmail.com wrote:
If ALL you want is a SIMPLE repl you can just go to the tryclojure site.
:)
Not quite.
As far as official disto's go, the current state is a little raw for getting
started
And having the official getting started
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 5:58 PM, pmbauer paul.michael.ba...@gmail.com wrote:
So now you go download this 100MB IDE is a little heavy. No?
Don't forget the JDK alone weighs in at three-quarters of that:
Mmm, not quite.
Doesn't clojure run just fine with the 15MB JVM?
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 6:00 PM, László Török ltoro...@gmail.com wrote:
Scala gets parallel collections (i.e. leverage multi-core CPUs)
http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/05/scala-29;jsessionid=BCF6B009442F5F0D9C18A06D3790C3DA
just to give this thread a new spark...:)
Clojure used to have
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 6:36 PM, David Nolen dnolen.li...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 6:00 PM, László Török ltoro...@gmail.com wrote:
Scala gets parallel collections (i.e. leverage multi-core CPUs)
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 6:17 PM, pmbauer paul.michael.ba...@gmail.com wrote:
Mmm, not quite.
Doesn't clojure run just fine with the 15MB JVM?
Do you mean the JRE? And if so: for development, rather than just deployment?
--
Protege: What is this seething mass of parentheses?!
Master: Your
I'm beginning to think this has degenerated a bit into argument for
arguments sake.
Yes, JRE. You don't need the JDK to read/eval .clj files. And in the
context of where this all started, namely, critiques to the current getting
started experience for new users, a 75MB JDK + 100MB IDE is
Just adding my +1 - as someone relatively new to clojure, leiningen is a
great way to get up and running, for a reasonably experienced developer.
(It's a big improvement on when I first tried clojure a couple of years
ago!)
There seem to be windows instructions at
pmbauer paul.michael.ba...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm beginning to think this has degenerated a bit into argument for
arguments sake.
Yes, JRE. You don't need the JDK to read/eval .clj files. And in the
context of where this all started, namely, critiques to the current
getting
started experience
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Thorsten Wilms t...@freenet.de wrote:
After initially installing a Clojure package on Ubuntu, I then learned that
it was totally unnecessary for a project using Leiningen ...
Yeah, part of me wishes that Leiningen would get official endorsement
as the build
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 7:13 PM, pmbauer paul.michael.ba...@gmail.com wrote:
Lein is one such option, but unlikely to get official recognition giving
clojure/core's (arguably correct) decision to stick to maven.
Talk about a heavyweight, intimidating experience. :)
--
Protege: What is this
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 7:43 PM, mike.w.me...@gmail.com m...@mired.org wrote:
The download the massive IDE path seems to presume that a newcomer
actually needs something more than a simple REPL in order to get started.
I'd claim that's wrong - at least in a world where any computer you'd run
It's not really the Emacs tools that are a problem, but the huge
amount of web pages trying - with good intentions - to help you
installing the Emacs-Clojure stack, but usually lacking some important
detail. It feels like playing a jig-saw puzzle without being able to
look at the picture
416.843.9060
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 5:46 AM, Nick Zbinden nick...@gmail.com wrote:
Coming up with a clojure stack is not really clojury. I think clojure
does not really lack far behind scala/akka and its much simpler.
I don't really know about IDEs I can see how that could be a problem
Gregg Williams greg...@innerpaths.net wrote:
Steve Yegge's main idea, that Clojure needs to start saying yes, is
true on multiple levels.
It's also BS on multiple levels, which probably has more to do with Steve's
reputation than anything else. But I want to address your focus:
I'd like to
On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Gregg Williams greg...@innerpaths.net wrote:
Steve Yegge's main idea, that Clojure needs to start saying yes, is
true on multiple levels.
Well, there's always some truth in most of his rants but I'm not sure
I'd agree that the main thrusts of this particularly
On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 8:06 PM, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote:
Now, I will say here that most n00bs I've seen exposed to the REPL
expect two things to just work:
1. typing help or (help) should display _something_ useful (even if
it's just a link to the docs),
2. typing exit,
I've found the community to be very friendly and helpful.
The problem is that the entire contents of the clojure.org site is
written by an expert, for experts.
...and necessary.
More verbose, newbie-friendly docs are important too, but take a lot more
time and effort (clojuredocs.org,
/ clojure stack vs. not, to be
another aspect of which direction to pull the community (or, is the
community saying yes enough). Sean, you're correct that they're not
directly related technically.
I'm a former java developer, whose tried scala, ruby, etc. And with clojure,
I haven't been
That particular soap opera found its local minima here:
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2053908
I don't think that that is germane to the Clojure stack question though.
There are innumerable ways to assemble Clojure applications for any scale
desired; they're discussed here and in #clojure
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:34 AM, Timothy Washington twash...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm a former java developer, whose tried scala, ruby, etc. And with clojure,
I haven't been this intellectually excited since I designed my first DSL :)
My commercial background is primarily (in historical order): C,
On May 17, 11:00 am, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:34 AM, Timothy Washington twash...@gmail.com
wrote:
I'm a former java developer, whose tried scala, ruby, etc. And with clojure,
I haven't been this intellectually excited since I designed my first
Chas, Sean, Alan,
thank you for taking the discussion back on track. I completely support
Rich's position re protecting Clojure form becoming bloated with half-baked
features. (half-baked = conceptually and practically mature)
I'm happy to have Rich as a benevolent dictator for life :) ( live a
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Alan a...@malloys.org wrote:
For what it's worth, a year ago I had never touched Emacs and was
terrified by it, partly because of the attitude of superiority Emacs
users tend to have. But I was learning lisp, and Emacs was reported to
be the best tool for
I've just come across this:
http://typesafe.com/company
I believe Clojure will have to take a similar path in order to achieve
broader (enterprise) acceptance.
I'm sure Rich and the core dev team are working towards this goal...
--
László Török
Skype: laczoka2000
Twitter: @laczoka
--
You
I thing the java guys are late :)
http://clojure.com/
On May 16, 9:42 am, László Török ltoro...@gmail.com wrote:
I've just come across this:
http://typesafe.com/company
I believe Clojure will have to take a similar path in order to achieve
broader (enterprise) acceptance.
I'm sure Rich
Coming up with a clojure stack is not really clojury. I think clojure
does not really lack far behind scala/akka and its much simpler.
I don't really know about IDEs I can see how that could be a problem.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group
with a clojure stack is not really clojury. I think clojure
does not really lack far behind scala/akka and its much simpler.
I don't really know about IDEs I can see how that could be a problem.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post
Clojure stack could
appear that would / could really satisfy the mass market...
--
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/
Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://www.getrailo.com/
Perfection is the enemy of the good
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Timothy Washington twash...@gmail.com wrote:
This is an interesting discussion. Rich Hickey and Steve Yegge recently
weighed in on the Seajure discussion group (and later discussed on HN).
Yegge basically takes Laszlo's position (clojure needs to start saying
63 matches
Mail list logo
