As an outcome of this thread, I have decided not to invest in clojure,
so I believe the following to be purely feedback, as I have no agenda
to push.
- it seems from some's point of view that I was trolling. Fine, from
my point of view though it was akin to drink the kool aid or gtfo.
Sorry,
As an outcome of this thread, I have decided not to invest in clojure,
so I believe the following to be purely feedback, as I have no agenda
to push.
- it seems from some's point of view that I was trolling. Fine, from
my point of view though it was akin to drink the kool aid or gtfo.
Sorry,
On Jul 26, 1:53 am, Christian Marks 9fv...@gmail.com wrote:
On Jul 25, 6:11 pm, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote: I ask, what
is it that I did other than seriously inquire about the
rationale?!
You started a thread with the non-serious title, Alright, fess up,
whose unhappy
On Jul 26, 2:01 pm, semperos daniel.l.grego...@gmail.com wrote:
Based on the majority of posts in this thread, I think you can see you're in
the minority, both with regards to your opinions of ClojureScript and with
regards to how this community should behave. Here's one more person who
On Jul 26, 3:08 pm, Timothy Baldridge tbaldri...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Timothy, and thanks for your much-better-than-others' reply.
Oh I will be washing my hands and be gone for sure, as coding and
making things better is precisely what I offered in my OP, which was
taken as a threat and
an attempt at humor in the
technical arguments I'm making.
On Jul 24, 10:28 pm, Rich Hickey richhic...@gmail.com wrote:
On Jul 24, 11:19 am, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
Alright, to be honest, I'm disappointed.
I'll make sure you get a refund then.
Seriously, this is like being
Perhaps I should've just looked for a blog about knitting or cupcakes
and posted what I did here about clojure/clojurescript in it. That way
you fine folks won't get to read it, eventhough no one here is obliged
in any way to read my posts or any in this thread. Yeah, definitely,
that way I
Alright, to be honest, I'm disappointed.
First of all, congrats and good job to all involved in putting it out.
On the plus side, it's a good way to use the Google Closure javascript
platform.
On the minus, imho, that's what's wrong with it.
Google Closure is too Java. It's not idiomatic
with the release
of clojurescript oh noes! if we're gonna do anything substantial then
this doesn't scale! we need a Java like solution!
[1]http://www.sitepoint.com/google-closure-how-not-to-write-javascript/
- Mark
On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:19 AM, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.comwrote:
--
You
On Jul 24, 6:03 pm, David Nolen dnolen.li...@gmail.com wrote:
As a professional JavaScripter for the past 6 years who has built his own
frameworks and written considerable amounts of Prototype, MooTools, and
jQuery.
I don't think jQuery is special or particularly interesting and most of the
On Jul 24, 7:05 pm, David Nolen dnolen.li...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 1:46 PM, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.comwrote:
The Javascript notaries have advocated using a small functional subset
of javascript, rather than the full gamut of javscript's quirks, and I
On Jul 24, 7:24 pm, Michael Gardner gardne...@gmail.com wrote:
On Jul 24, 2011, at 1:11 PM, James Keats wrote:
Restricting yourself to a functional subset of JavaScript can't fix
JavaScript. The functional subset stinks, Javascript notaries be damned.
If so where does this leave clojure
pm, Rich Hickey richhic...@gmail.com wrote:
On Jul 24, 11:19 am, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
Alright, to be honest, I'm disappointed.
I'll make sure you get a refund then.
Seriously, this is like being disappointed an action movie was an
action movie instead of a comedy
On Jul 24, 10:23 pm, Base basselh...@gmail.com wrote:
Why should we care what kind of Javascript ClojureScript generates,
as long as it's correct and performant? The whole point of the project
is to allow us to write Clojure rather than Javascript!
James, you do get this point, right? Just
I'm mildly concerned about macros being seen as the secret weapon of
clojure(/lisp).
In their place, i wish monads would get a wider attention and embrace.
Discuss? :-)
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send
just want to break
free from the shackles of these heavy-weight tools and fly! OK - that's
enough.
Or, it might all be a catastrophic failure and I will be signing up to
Careers 2.0 :)
Col
P.S Usual disclaimer - still only written three lines of Clojure :)
On 8 July 2011 20:57, James
On Jul 8, 6:19 am, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 1:07 AM, Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
On Jul 7, 2011, at 7:29 PM, Sean Corfield wrote:
And yet the #1 FAQ we see on lists and reflected in blog posts is
about getting Clojure up and running... We
On Jul 8, 4:30 pm, Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
On Jul 8, 2011, at 10:29 AM, James Keats wrote:
May I also add the following caveat emptors:
- If you're new to programming, clojure will overwhelm you. Start with
something like python.
I disagree. This is a subject
On Jul 8, 7:14 pm, nchubrich nchubr...@gmail.com wrote:
I disagree. This is a subject of religious debates that I don't want to get
into in detail, but FWIW this educator thinks that Lisp is a perfectly
defensible first language and that Clojure can serve the purpose quite well
as
On Jul 8, 8:02 pm, Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
I'm with you 95% here, but I do think that this much editor fanciness is
needed to have a sane environment for coding lisp for anything more than a
few minutes: bracket-matching and language-aware auto-re-indenting. If
there's
On Jun 16, 3:08 pm, Colin Yates colin.ya...@gmail.com wrote:
(newbie warning)
Our current solution is an OO implementation in Groovy and Java. We
have a (mutable) Project which has a DAG (directed acyclic graph).
This is stored as a set of nodes and edges. There are multiple
On Jul 8, 8:57 pm, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
On Jun 16, 3:08 pm, Colin Yates colin.ya...@gmail.com wrote:
(newbie warning)
Our current solution is an OO implementation in Groovy and Java. We
have a (mutable) Project which has a DAG (directed acyclic graph
On Jul 7, 6:42 am, nchubrich nchubr...@gmail.com wrote:
I'll try :) It was really a polemical post for a polemical thread,
but my main points can be extracted here. Feel free to read as many
or as few of them as you are inclined
nchubrich, I've read your original post in its entirely, so
On Jul 7, 8:09 am, nchubrich nchubr...@gmail.com wrote
(As for Steve Yeggeis he reading all this?if he's totally
wrong, then of course people should feel free to disagree with him,
and forget about the consequences. But if he happens to be \right,
and I do think he mostly is, then
On Jul 7, 8:03 pm, logan duskli...@gmail.com wrote:
This poisonous attitude is perfectly exemplified in this thread by
James Keats.
I completely disagree with your mis-characterization and invite you to
read again what I had maintained:
- I had implored that technical arguments alone should
On Jul 7, 8:35 pm, nchubrich nchubr...@gmail.com wrote
someone whose name I can't remember right now
once said, There are no bad students, only bad teachers.
There are three good books already and more on the way (I look forward
to Clojure in Action later this month), there are excellent
On Jul 5, 11:07 pm, faenvie fanny.aen...@gmx.de wrote:
note on the original posting:
First, he shouldn't be porting Java code to clojure, Second, Clojure IS
fundamentally different from Java, and third, such said users who
don't want to touch Java should not touch Clojure.
to port
On Jul 5, 7:30 pm, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 8:04 PM, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 3:34 PM, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
For example I suggest you look at this video/transcript and pay
attention
On Jul 4, 5:45 am, Christian Schuhegger
christian.schuheg...@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks for your feed-back. I already have RDF/OWL in my tool-kit. I am
only not sure if an ERP like system should be modeled along those
lines. But I did not put enough thought in that direction yet. Would
you base
On Jul 4, 1:26 pm, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
On Jul 4, 5:45 am, Christian Schuhegger
A good
book to get you started would SEMANTIC WEB for the WORKING ONTOLOGIST,
of which a second edition has recently come out. :-)
Sorry about the unintentional to get you started figure
On Jul 3, 6:15 am, Ken Wesson kwess...@gmail.com wrote:
There's one obvious use case for such a wrapper function, though: if
you'll want to pass the Java method to HOFs from time to time. You
can't directly pass a Java method to a HOF, but you can pass such a
wrapper function.
Pardon me
On Jul 3, 2:26 am, Mark Engelberg mark.engelb...@gmail.com wrote:
Ideally, I was hoping to start a more in-depth discussion about the
pros and cons of programming in the large in Clojure than just
waxing poetic about Clojure/Lisp's capabilities in the abstract :)
I am yet to do a large
On Jul 3, 5:21 pm, Christian Schuhegger
christian.schuheg...@gmail.com wrote:
Nevertheless for large connected data graphs I think something like a
data-schema is needed. Clojure would still follow its approach to only
deal with maps, but there is a descriptive meta-data level in addition
On Jul 3, 9:02 pm, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 3:14 AM, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
Perhaps we move in different circles but I've seen as much bad Java
in the large as I ever used to see bad FORTRAN and bad C / C++
code over the years. I
On Jul 1, 10:50 pm, Gregg Reynolds d...@mobileink.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 2:59 PM, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
...
Whereas when Steve Yegge writes:
Who?
Indeed. I'm not wishing this to be a personal attack on Steve Yegge,
but a fair and justified re-examination
is truly possible.
Cheers,
Aaron Bedra
--
Clojure/corehttp://clojure.com
On 07/01/2011 03:59 PM, James Keats wrote:
To be absolutely clear, I am not against Steve Yegge as a person. The
title of my post was Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's yes
language push. I implore you as clojure
On Jul 2, 3:54 pm, David Nolen dnolen.li...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 4:05 AM, faenvie faen...@googlemail.com wrote:
I agree, that clojure will not gain java-like popularity in
a forseeable future.
IMO clojure is much more a Language for SystemProgrammers
(high demands,
On Jul 2, 6:39 pm, David Nolen dnolen.li...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 12:23 PM, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.comwrote:
I therefore see it most suited, as I said, for the advanced
independent programmer, or at most a small team of advanced enough
programmers.
I think
On Jul 2, 6:41 pm, Stefan Kamphausen ska2...@googlemail.com wrote:
FWIW,
However, as Aaron pointed out, I'd rather a more tolerant, pleasant
community.
Kind regards,
A month ago I asked a question here that barely a minute after
clicking send realized was utterly dumb. It reminds of an
On Jul 2, 8:33 pm, David Nolen dnolen.li...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 3:21 PM, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
And once you encounter the
reality and frustration infamously characterized by likening the
managing of lispers to the herding of cats then you begin
On Jul 2, 8:33 pm, Mark Engelberg mark.engelb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 12:21 PM, James Keats james.w.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
A very recent quote by Abelson is relevant:
One of the things I’m learning here (Google) is the experience of
working on these enormous programs. I
Hi all. I've been looking at Clojure for the past month, having had a
previous look at it a couple of years ago and then moved on to other
things only to return to it now.
Over the past decade I have looked at many languages and many ways of
doing things. People may say this language or that
On Jun 21, 6:54 pm, miner stevemi...@gmail.com wrote:
Here's some more support for the hammock:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/06/20/137300311/why-hammocks-mak...
If this is going to be anything like those ambient orbs, then I better
hurry up and invest in hammocks.
--
You received
On Jun 18, 4:08 pm, Stefan Kamphausen ska2...@googlemail.com wrote:
Hi,
these modern IDEs really do a tremendous job at organizing projects and
providing additional information at programming time. It's just, their
text-editor components suck.
If you are a Java developer, it's probably
Hi all,
Clojure seems to be a language in a bit of flux (eg, defstruct vs
defrecord), is there a canonical set of docs that keeps all of this up-
to-date? are the docs on clojure.org always kept up to date? is there
a place to track succinct notes on language evolution, conventions and
community
Hello all.
I'm currently using Netbeans' clojure IDE and I quite like it. It has
a REPL. It highlights syntax and matches parentheses. It supports
maven and mercurial/git. It provides completion and doc for both
clojure and java. It has allows evaluation of forms from source code
to repl. It also
Hi all. I'm struggling to see the point of this (from Pragmatic's
Programming Clojure):
Java = rnd.nextInt()
Clojure = (. rnd nextInt)
sugared = (.nextInt rnd)
What's the point of the sugared version? It's not any less to type.
It's also incomprehensible to me how it came about. In the middle
What's the point of the sugared version? It's not any less to type.
Actually there's one fewer character -- a space.
Okay, I'll give you that.
It's also incomprehensible to me how it came about. In the middle one
it's simple, class and method, but the in sugared one it's just plain
Hi again. This is another syntax that I'm struggling with:
(function [args] more args)
Or for example:
(subvec [1 2 3 4 5] 1 3)
Please note I'm not referring specifically to the subvec function, but
simply using it as an example, as I've seen this syntax with many
other functions, but it
Hi, I admit that subvec is not a good example as it does indeed take a
vector as a first argument, perhaps i'll find better example or
perhaps I might've just been confused. I learnt lisp and scheme many
years ago, abandoned them for languages with better libraries, and I'm
perhaps thrown off by
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