Re: Stus-List Deck core repair advice sought

[James Bibb via CnC-List]

Fantastic info!   Thanks.  

Any idea in the dimension for core material for the cored deck portions, 
thickness, and material choices?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:34 PM, Francois Rivard via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi James, 
> 
> I would remove some of the deck hardware around the mast and double check.  I 
> don't believe that the coachwork area is cored and where you see the issues 
> it's than likely just compression damage on the Coromat.  I.E I'm fairly 
> confident that there's no rot and you could more than likely easily fix using 
> penetrating epoxy. 
> 
> I have a 34+ (Same boat) and some of the dodger fasteners were failing in 
> that same area near the head and across the other side.  I removed them and 
> checked the holes (Through holes all the way)  As far as I could tell there 
> was NO coring whatsoever.  If there was Coromat, it's pretty thin.  See here 
> for more details:  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/reviews/review34-36.htm
> More interesting stuff here: 
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/reviews/perry/c
> 
> The side decks and the foredeck (Where you walk) are cored. 
> 
> Bottom line: remove some of the blocks on the foot of the mast to check the 
> holes / see the layup, I'd surprised if you actually see coring around that 
> area.   
> 
> As for the Boot, I got one from Holland Marine a few years back.  it fits 
> about as  perfectly as but it's pretty hard to make it completely leak proof. 
>  
> 
> Good luck with it. 
> 
> -Francois Rivard
> 1990 34+ "Take Five" 
> Lake Lanier, GA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Deck core repair advice sought

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Sorry.  In description it should have read layers of cloth, core material, more 
layers of cloth and then thickened epoxy



Mike



-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2018 9:48 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Hoyt, Mike
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck core repair advice sought



Hi James



We used to own a J Boat (J/27) and it was very routine to replace deck core.  
We previously had a Hinterhoeller built and designed Niagara 26 where we had to 
recore large areas around both chainplates and most of the cockpit floor.  The 
J27 also had no headliner which did indeed make work easier.



We did all of the work from above.  If doing from below you would likely wish 
to use a vacuum bagging system and need a lot of supports to hold everything in 
place.  From above gravity is your friend.   The Niagara had a painted deck 
which we had repainted with Interlux Interthane Plus (possibly now Perfection) 
which is a 2 part paint similar to Awlgrip.  Amy rep[airs we could use Interlux 
Brightside which had a perfect color match and was easy to apply and blended in 
perfectly.  The J-Boat had a gray non-skid on white deck in sections so was 
very easy to color match as I simply painted the entire deck with Interdeck 
grey.



Since the decks were either to be painted or already painted U cut out topskin 
and chiseled out the core.  Make sure you get out all the wet core.  Then 
layers of cloth using Epoxy or polyester (your choice), core material and then 
thickened polyester or epoxy (usually epoxy by this point) with West 407 
sandable filler or similar.  Lots of sanding and checking to ensure deck was 
level and had no low or high spots and then prime and paint using Interdeck (or 
you could use Kiwi-grip).



A friend also with a J/27 popped off a section of the topskin to top the job 
from above and then reused that section afterward.  The upside of this method 
is matching nonskid while the downside is possibility of trapped air bubbles.



Replacing deck core is actually a fairly simple process and the end result can 
be quite satisfying.  On the J-boat we had to do this in 14 sections where the 
deck had been wet or even rotted (around 4 stanchion bases, 2 chainplates, bow 
pulpit feet, dorade on bow, cockpit seats in 4 areas, under primary winch on 
stbd and under genoa track on stbd).  I phot-documented the process but our web 
site has been down since we switched internet providers over the winter.  I 
could send photos off line if you are interested.



Note that for a Kevlar construction you should research what to use for this 
repair.  I suspect epoxy may bond but doubt polyester would.  You may also find 
other alternatives.



Mike

Persistence

1987 Frers 33 #16

Halifax, NS



-Original Message-

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of James Bibb 
via CnC-List

Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 9:26 PM

To: Chuck S via CnC-List

Cc: James Bibb

Subject: Stus-List Deck core repair advice sought



I have some soft deck repair anticipated around my mast opening…above head on 
port cabin leading edge where folks jump the halyards and foredeck area where 
the bowman has been working since 1991.



1991 C 34-36R so the deck is composite. I assume also of the most part 
however the brief design notes mention a mixture of kevlar and balsa.  Does 
anybody know where the distinction is around the boat?



I’ll be removing the mast for this work.



Also…from below or above?  I really want to leave the gelcoat intake and if I 
can work on the boat over the next few months…have the heated cabin environment 
to help curing.



Anybody been down this road?



Also….need to find a replacement mast boot.  The current one is worn and needs 
replacing.





Thanks!



James Bibb



SV Darwins Folly

1991 C 34-36R

___



Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



___



Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Deck core repair advice sought

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Hi James

We used to own a J Boat (J/27) and it was very routine to replace deck core.  
We previously had a Hinterhoeller built and designed Niagara 26 where we had to 
recore large areas around both chainplates and most of the cockpit floor.  The 
J27 also had no headliner which did indeed make work easier.

We did all of the work from above.  If doing from below you would likely wish 
to use a vacuum bagging system and need a lot of supports to hold everything in 
place.  From above gravity is your friend.   The Niagara had a painted deck 
which we had repainted with Interlux Interthane Plus (possibly now Perfection) 
which is a 2 part paint similar to Awlgrip.  Amy rep[airs we could use Interlux 
Brightside which had a perfect color match and was easy to apply and blended in 
perfectly.  The J-Boat had a gray non-skid on white deck in sections so was 
very easy to color match as I simply painted the entire deck with Interdeck 
grey.

Since the decks were either to be painted or already painted U cut out topskin 
and chiseled out the core.  Make sure you get out all the wet core.  Then 
layers of cloth using Epoxy or polyester (your choice), core material and then 
thickened polyester or epoxy (usually epoxy by this point) with West 407 
sandable filler or similar.  Lots of sanding and checking to ensure deck was 
level and had no low or high spots and then prime and paint using Interdeck (or 
you could use Kiwi-grip).

A friend also with a J/27 popped off a section of the topskin to top the job 
from above and then reused that section afterward.  The upside of this method 
is matching nonskid while the downside is possibility of trapped air bubbles.  

Replacing deck core is actually a fairly simple process and the end result can 
be quite satisfying.  On the J-boat we had to do this in 14 sections where the 
deck had been wet or even rotted (around 4 stanchion bases, 2 chainplates, bow 
pulpit feet, dorade on bow, cockpit seats in 4 areas, under primary winch on 
stbd and under genoa track on stbd).  I phot-documented the process but our web 
site has been down since we switched internet providers over the winter.  I 
could send photos off line if you are interested.

Note that for a Kevlar construction you should research what to use for this 
repair.  I suspect epoxy may bond but doubt polyester would.  You may also find 
other alternatives.

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33 #16
Halifax, NS

 
-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of James Bibb 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 9:26 PM
To: Chuck S via CnC-List
Cc: James Bibb
Subject: Stus-List Deck core repair advice sought

I have some soft deck repair anticipated around my mast opening…above head on 
port cabin leading edge where folks jump the halyards and foredeck area where 
the bowman has been working since 1991. 

1991 C 34-36R so the deck is composite. I assume also of the most part 
however the brief design notes mention a mixture of kevlar and balsa.  Does 
anybody know where the distinction is around the boat?  

I’ll be removing the mast for this work.  

Also…from below or above?  I really want to leave the gelcoat intake and if I 
can work on the boat over the next few months…have the heated cabin environment 
to help curing. 

Anybody been down this road?

Also….need to find a replacement mast boot.  The current one is worn and needs 
replacing. 


Thanks!

James Bibb

SV Darwins Folly 
1991 C 34-36R
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Deck core repair advice sought

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

I did mine from above, as gravity helps and my deck had a few depressions where 
water puddled and mold grew. I needed to add some camber to the deck to avoid 
future puddles, so cutting the deck from above seemed better.


> On September 1, 2018 at 7:54 PM James Bibb via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Chuck.  
> 
> I’d like to follow your experience.  Are you attacking this from the top 
> or bottom?  It’s getting into the late summer up here in SE Alaska and I’m 
> trying to gauge whether this is doable in the off-season.  Clear, warm 
> weather is hard to come by up here.  I could tent and  heat but my thought is 
> to heat the interior even though I’ve been reading about how difficult it is 
> to do working underneath.  
> 
> Thanks again for the follow up.  
> 
> James Bibb.  
> 
> 
> 
> > > On Sep 1, 2018, at 3:12 PM, Chuck S via CnC-List < 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> > 
> > Hi James,
> > I replaced balsa core on my 34R around my mast collar back in 2007. 
> > I have to look on an older computer for my pictures. I wound up making a 
> > G10 boss around the deck opening and epoxying a 1/4" sleeve around the 
> > opening to protect the balsa from water.
> > 
> > I find kevlar in every part of the boat though many people tell me 
> > it isn't required in a small patch. The stringers under the floor had at 
> > least six layers of kevlar alternating with glass and mat making 13 to 15 
> > layers total. The solid vertical parts of the cockpit and transom have 
> > glass, mat, glass, mat, kevlar, mat kevlar, mat, glass, mat, glass. The 
> > deck has 3/4" balsa and a layup that I think is glass, mat, kevlar, mat, 
> > glass above and below. That gives two layers of kevlar to the composite 
> > structure. If you follow best practices and grind the skin to a 12:1 bevel 
> > recommended by West System you will see the layers.
> > 
> > I'll try to find pictures and send them to your email.
> > 
> > Good luck with your project. I have about six feet of each of my 
> > side decks to do this fall.
> > 
> > 
> > > > > On August 31, 2018 at 9:05 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List < 
> > cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> > > 
> > > Mine is a 37+ but I presume that much of the design and 
> > > construction is similar.
> > > 
> > > The design notes regarding Kevlar have it as part of the 
> > > layup. I think Ken Heaton might have a better idea but the idea is that 
> > > the Kevlar simply makes up some of the layers of matting/roving in the 
> > > fiberglass. I would expect it in the hull and would not be surprised to 
> > > see it in the deck. Hard to say if it would be preferentially placed in 
> > > the inner or outer skin.
> > > 
> > > As for the core,  I was anticipating deck rot when I had my 
> > > mast pulled.  To my pleasant surprise the cabin top directly around the 
> > > mast is not cored.  Throughout the boat you can see where coring starts 
> > > and stops by the thickness changing.  A perfect example is near the toe 
> > > rail.  There is a 3" wide deck section all the way around the boat.  I 
> > > thought it was just a gutter.  It is, but it is also an area which is not 
> > > cored.  Same thing in the anchor locker as the hull walls approach the 
> > > toe rail.  Repairs from in the cabin have the challenge of not having 
> > > direct access to the cabin top since there is a "headliner".  You can 
> > > inspect and get an idea of what lies ahead but in order to re-core you 
> > > would want unfettered access to the entire area of rot.  You'd be best 
> > > cut around the rim to remove the entire headliner.  I do like the idea of 
> > > not disturbing the outer skin.  If you end up going the outside route I 
> > > suggest trying to keep as much of the skin together as a single piece or 
> > > symmetrical pieces.  A product I like that can finish off this type of 
> > > work is kiwi-grip.  It is a urethane non-skid with a thick coat and 
> > > variable texture.  It covers seams in the skins great.
> > > 
> > > Rig-rit sells mast boot tape which I like.  Black 2mm thick, 
> > > 5' wide. http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/SparParts/Mast_boot_%20Tape.php
> > > 
> > > As much as I liked the product, when I had my mast re-stepped 
> > > the yard used what they had and it seemed like almost exactly the same 
> > > except that it was even wider - Like 6 or 7 inches.  Call Zanhizers in 
> > > Solomons MD and they can probably send you a roll.  You might have to 
> > > talk to Phil or Jack.
> > > 
> > > Josh Muckley
> > > S/V Sea Hawk 
> > > 1989 C 37+
> > > Solomons, MD 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 8:27 PM James Bibb via CnC-List < 
> > > cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > > > 

Re: Stus-List Deck core repair advice sought

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

I assume the construction of the 34/36 and the 37/40 aren't that different
so have a look at the construction drawings and other info at the link
below for some insight on layups, etc.

Ken H.


http://c-c-37-40.blogspot.com/p/the-new-c-37-1988-c-3740-photos-c-3740.html?m=1

On Saturday, 1 September 2018, James Bibb via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> Thanks Chuck.
> I’d like to follow your experience.  Are you attacking this from the top
or bottom?  It’s getting into the late summer up here in SE Alaska and I’m
trying to gauge whether this is doable in the off-season.  Clear, warm
weather is hard to come by up here.  I could tent and  heat but my thought
is to heat the interior even though I’ve been reading about how difficult
it is to do working underneath.
> Thanks again for the follow up.
> James Bibb.
>
> On Sep 1, 2018, at 3:12 PM, Chuck S via CnC-List 
wrote:
> Hi James,
> I replaced balsa core on my 34R around my mast collar back in 2007. I
have to look on an older computer for my pictures. I wound up making a G10
boss around the deck opening and epoxying a 1/4" sleeve around the opening
to protect the balsa from water.
>
> I find kevlar in every part of the boat though many people tell me it
isn't required in a small patch. The stringers under the floor had at least
six layers of kevlar alternating with glass and mat making 13 to 15 layers
total. The solid vertical parts of the cockpit and transom have glass, mat,
glass, mat, kevlar, mat kevlar, mat, glass, mat, glass. The deck has 3/4"
balsa and a layup that I think is glass, mat, kevlar, mat, glass above and
below. That gives two layers of kevlar to the composite structure. If you
follow best practices and grind the skin to a 12:1 bevel recommended by
West System you will see the layers.
>
> I'll try to find pictures and send them to your email.
>
> Good luck with your project. I have about six feet of each of my side
decks to do this fall.
>
> On August 31, 2018 at 9:05 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Mine is a 37+ but I presume that much of the design and construction is
similar.
> The design notes regarding Kevlar have it as part of the layup. I think
Ken Heaton might have a better idea but the idea is that the Kevlar simply
makes up some of the layers of matting/roving in the fiberglass. I would
expect it in the hull and would not be surprised to see it in the deck.
Hard to say if it would be preferentially placed in the inner or outer skin.
>
> As for the core,  I was anticipating deck rot when I had my mast pulled.
To my pleasant surprise the cabin top directly around the mast is not
cored.  Throughout the boat you can see where coring starts and stops by
the thickness changing.  A perfect example is near the toe rail.  There is
a 3" wide deck section all the way around the boat.  I thought it was just
a gutter.  It is, but it is also an area which is not cored.  Same thing in
the anchor locker as the hull walls approach the toe rail.  Repairs from in
the cabin have the challenge of not having direct access to the cabin top
since there is a "headliner".  You can inspect and get an idea of what lies
ahead but in order to re-core you would want unfettered access to the
entire area of rot.  You'd be best cut around the rim to remove the entire
headliner.  I do like the idea of not disturbing the outer skin.  If you
end up going the outside route I suggest trying to keep as much of the skin
together as a single piece or symmetrical pieces.  A product I like that
can finish off this type of work is kiwi-grip.  It is a urethane non-skid
with a thick coat and variable texture.  It covers seams in the skins great.
> Rig-rit sells mast boot tape which I like.  Black 2mm thick, 5' wide.
http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/SparParts/Mast_boot_%20Tape.php
> As much as I liked the product, when I had my mast re-stepped the yard
used what they had and it seemed like almost exactly the same except that
it was even wider - Like 6 or 7 inches.  Call Zanhizers in Solomons MD and
they can probably send you a roll.  You might have to talk to Phil or Jack.
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 8:27 PM James Bibb via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have some soft deck repair anticipated around my mast opening…above
head on port cabin leading edge where folks jump the halyards and foredeck
area where the bowman has been working since 1991.
>>
>> 1991 C 34-36R so the deck is composite. I assume also of the most part
however the brief design notes mention a mixture of kevlar and balsa.  Does
anybody know where the distinction is around the boat?
>>
>> I’ll be removing the mast for this work.
>>
>> Also…from below or above?  I really want to leave the gelcoat intake and
if I can work on the boat over the next few months…have the heated cabin
environment to help curing.
>>
>> Anybody been down this road?
>>
>> Also….need to find a replacement mast boot.  The 

Re: Stus-List Deck core repair advice sought

[James Bibb via CnC-List]

Thanks Chuck.  

I’d like to follow your experience.  Are you attacking this from the top or 
bottom?  It’s getting into the late summer up here in SE Alaska and I’m trying 
to gauge whether this is doable in the off-season.  Clear, warm weather is hard 
to come by up here.  I could tent and  heat but my thought is to heat the 
interior even though I’ve been reading about how difficult it is to do working 
underneath.  

Thanks again for the follow up.  

James Bibb.  


> On Sep 1, 2018, at 3:12 PM, Chuck S via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi James,
> I replaced balsa core on my 34R around my mast collar back in 2007. I have to 
> look on an older computer for my pictures. I wound up making a G10 boss 
> around the deck opening and epoxying a 1/4" sleeve around the opening to 
> protect the balsa from water.
> 
> I find kevlar in every part of the boat though many people tell me it isn't 
> required in a small patch. The stringers under the floor had at least six 
> layers of kevlar alternating with glass and mat making 13 to 15 layers total. 
> The solid vertical parts of the cockpit and transom have glass, mat, glass, 
> mat, kevlar, mat kevlar, mat, glass, mat, glass. The deck has 3/4" balsa and 
> a layup that I think is glass, mat, kevlar, mat, glass above and below. That 
> gives two layers of kevlar to the composite structure. If you follow best 
> practices and grind the skin to a 12:1 bevel recommended by West System you 
> will see the layers.
> 
> I'll try to find pictures and send them to your email.
> 
> Good luck with your project. I have about six feet of each of my side decks 
> to do this fall.
> 
>> On August 31, 2018 at 9:05 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>>  wrote: 
>> 
>> Mine is a 37+ but I presume that much of the design and construction is 
>> similar.
>> 
>> The design notes regarding Kevlar have it as part of the layup. I think Ken 
>> Heaton might have a better idea but the idea is that the Kevlar simply makes 
>> up some of the layers of matting/roving in the fiberglass. I would expect it 
>> in the hull and would not be surprised to see it in the deck. Hard to say if 
>> it would be preferentially placed in the inner or outer skin. 
>> 
>> As for the core,  I was anticipating deck rot when I had my mast pulled.  To 
>> my pleasant surprise the cabin top directly around the mast is not cored.  
>> Throughout the boat you can see where coring starts and stops by the 
>> thickness changing.  A perfect example is near the toe rail.  There is a 3" 
>> wide deck section all the way around the boat.  I thought it was just a 
>> gutter.  It is, but it is also an area which is not cored.  Same thing in 
>> the anchor locker as the hull walls approach the toe rail.  Repairs from in 
>> the cabin have the challenge of not having direct access to the cabin top 
>> since there is a "headliner".  You can inspect and get an idea of what lies 
>> ahead but in order to re-core you would want unfettered access to the entire 
>> area of rot.  You'd be best cut around the rim to remove the entire 
>> headliner.  I do like the idea of not disturbing the outer skin.  If you end 
>> up going the outside route I suggest trying to keep as much of the skin 
>> together as a single piece or symmetrical pieces.  A product I like that can 
>> finish off this type of work is kiwi-grip.  It is a urethane non-skid with a 
>> thick coat and variable texture.  It covers seams in the skins great.
>> 
>> Rig-rit sells mast boot tape which I like.  Black 2mm thick, 5' wide. 
>> http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/SparParts/Mast_boot_%20Tape.php 
>> 
>> 
>> As much as I liked the product, when I had my mast re-stepped the yard used 
>> what they had and it seemed like almost exactly the same except that it was 
>> even wider - Like 6 or 7 inches.  Call Zanhizers in Solomons MD and they can 
>> probably send you a roll.  You might have to talk to Phil or Jack.
>> 
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk 
>> 1989 C 37+
>> Solomons, MD 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 8:27 PM James Bibb via CnC-List < 
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: 
>> I have some soft deck repair anticipated around my mast opening…above head 
>> on port cabin leading edge where folks jump the halyards and foredeck area 
>> where the bowman has been working since 1991. 
>> 
>> 1991 C 34-36R so the deck is composite. I assume also of the most part 
>> however the brief design notes mention a mixture of kevlar and balsa.  Does 
>> anybody know where the distinction is around the boat?  
>> 
>> I’ll be removing the mast for this work.  
>> 
>> Also…from below or above?  I really want to leave the gelcoat intake and if 
>> I can work on the boat over the next few months…have the heated cabin 
>> environment to help curing. 
>> 
>> Anybody been down this road? 
>> 
>> Also….need to find a replacement mast boot.  The current one is worn and 
>> needs replacing. 
>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: Stus-List Deck core repair advice sought

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

Hi James,
I replaced balsa core on my 34R around my mast collar back in 2007. I have to 
look on an older computer for my pictures. I wound up making a G10 boss around 
the deck opening and epoxying a 1/4" sleeve around the opening to protect the 
balsa from water.

I find kevlar in every part of the boat though many people tell me it isn't 
required in a small patch. The stringers under the floor had at least six 
layers of kevlar alternating with glass and mat making 13 to 15 layers total. 
The solid vertical parts of the cockpit and transom have glass, mat, glass, 
mat, kevlar, mat kevlar, mat, glass, mat, glass. The deck has 3/4" balsa and a 
layup that I think is glass, mat, kevlar, mat, glass above and below. That 
gives two layers of kevlar to the composite structure. If you follow best 
practices and grind the skin to a 12:1 bevel recommended by West System you 
will see the layers.

I'll try to find pictures and send them to your email.

Good luck with your project. I have about six feet of each of my side decks to 
do this fall.


> On August 31, 2018 at 9:05 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Mine is a 37+ but I presume that much of the design and construction is 
> similar.
> 
> The design notes regarding Kevlar have it as part of the layup. I think 
> Ken Heaton might have a better idea but the idea is that the Kevlar simply 
> makes up some of the layers of matting/roving in the fiberglass. I would 
> expect it in the hull and would not be surprised to see it in the deck. Hard 
> to say if it would be preferentially placed in the inner or outer skin.
> 
> As for the core,  I was anticipating deck rot when I had my mast pulled.  
> To my pleasant surprise the cabin top directly around the mast is not cored.  
> Throughout the boat you can see where coring starts and stops by the 
> thickness changing.  A perfect example is near the toe rail.  There is a 3" 
> wide deck section all the way around the boat.  I thought it was just a 
> gutter.  It is, but it is also an area which is not cored.  Same thing in the 
> anchor locker as the hull walls approach the toe rail.  Repairs from in the 
> cabin have the challenge of not having direct access to the cabin top since 
> there is a "headliner".  You can inspect and get an idea of what lies ahead 
> but in order to re-core you would want unfettered access to the entire area 
> of rot.  You'd be best cut around the rim to remove the entire headliner.  I 
> do like the idea of not disturbing the outer skin.  If you end up going the 
> outside route I suggest trying to keep as much of the skin together as a 
> single piece or symmetrical pieces.  A product I like that can finish off 
> this type of work is kiwi-grip.  It is a urethane non-skid with a thick coat 
> and variable texture.  It covers seams in the skins great.
> 
> Rig-rit sells mast boot tape which I like.  Black 2mm thick, 5' wide. 
> http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/SparParts/Mast_boot_%20Tape.php
> 
> As much as I liked the product, when I had my mast re-stepped the yard 
> used what they had and it seemed like almost exactly the same except that it 
> was even wider - Like 6 or 7 inches.  Call Zanhizers in Solomons MD and they 
> can probably send you a roll.  You might have to talk to Phil or Jack.
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk 
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 8:27 PM James Bibb via CnC-List < 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> > > I have some soft deck repair anticipated around my mast 
> opening…above head on port cabin leading edge where folks jump the halyards 
> and foredeck area where the bowman has been working since 1991.
> > 
> > 1991 C 34-36R so the deck is composite. I assume also of the most 
> > part however the brief design notes mention a mixture of kevlar and balsa.  
> > Does anybody know where the distinction is around the boat? 
> > 
> > I’ll be removing the mast for this work. 
> > 
> > Also…from below or above?  I really want to leave the gelcoat 
> > intake and if I can work on the boat over the next few months…have the 
> > heated cabin environment to help curing.
> > 
> > Anybody been down this road?
> > 
> > Also….need to find a replacement mast boot.  The current one is 
> > worn and needs replacing.
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > James Bibb
> > 
> > SV Darwins Folly
> > 1991 C 34-36R
> > ___
> > 
> > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  
> > Each and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> > 
> > 
> > > ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
> and every one is greatly 

Re: Stus-List Deck core repair advice sought

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I use gray self fusing silicon tape for a mast boot.  See:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_sb5TfIENvsUnBoN2F2Y0xkcmc

It's nearly 10 years old now and going strong.

I have done several deck "peels" to replace core.  A vibrating saw like a
Fein Multimaster or Dremel Multi Max is your best friend for doing those.
If you have a smooth/nonskid interface, you can cut along it to minimize
the visibility of the cut.  Leave a ledge so you can match the surface
elevations when you replace the cut out section.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA


> Also….need to find a replacement mast boot.  The current one is worn and
> needs replacing.
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> James Bibb
>
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Deck core repair advice sought

[David via CnC-List]

A "Lawn-Guy-Lander" being irascible?  Never happen

>From my Android


From: CnC-List  on behalf of Josh Muckley via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 10:03:18 PM
To: C List
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck core repair advice sought

I know the R is stripped down but no inner fiberglass tray to hide wires and 
lights?

Josh

On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 9:19 PM James Bibb via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Thanks Josh!  I bet we have a similar deck as well.  This helps me out.

I have no head liner…beauty of the stripped down version so I have everything 
accessible.

Thanks.



On Aug 31, 2018, at 5:05 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Mine is a 37+ but I presume that much of the design and construction is similar.

The design notes regarding Kevlar have it as part of the layup. I think Ken 
Heaton might have a better idea but the idea is that the Kevlar simply makes up 
some of the layers of matting/roving in the fiberglass. I would expect it in 
the hull and would not be surprised to see it in the deck. Hard to say if it 
would be preferentially placed in the inner or outer skin.

As for the core, I was anticipating deck rot when I had my mast pulled.  To my 
pleasant surprise the cabin top directly around the mast is not cored.  
Throughout the boat you can see where coring starts and stops by the thickness 
changing.  A perfect example is near the toe rail.  There is a 3" wide deck 
section all the way around the boat.  I thought it was just a gutter.  It is, 
but it is also an area which is not cored.  Same thing in the anchor locker as 
the hull walls approach the toe rail.  Repairs from in the cabin have the 
challenge of not having direct access to the cabin top since there is a 
"headliner".  You can inspect and get an idea of what lies ahead but in order 
to re-core you would want unfettered access to the entire area of rot.  You'd 
be best cut around the rim to remove the entire headliner.  I do like the idea 
of not disturbing the outer skin.  If you end up going the outside route I 
suggest trying to keep as much of the skin together as a single piece or 
symmetrical pieces.  A product I like that can finish off this type of work is 
kiwi-grip.  It is a urethane non-skid with a thick coat and variable texture.  
It covers seams in the skins great.

Rig-rit sells mast boot tape which I like.  Black 2mm thick, 5' wide. 
http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/SparParts/Mast_boot_%20Tape.php

As much as I liked the product, when I had my mast re-stepped the yard used 
what they had and it seemed like almost exactly the same except that it was 
even wider - Like 6 or 7 inches.  Call Zanhizers in Solomons MD and they can 
probably send you a roll.  You might have to talk to Phil or Jack.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 8:27 PM James Bibb via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
I have some soft deck repair anticipated around my mast opening…above head on 
port cabin leading edge where folks jump the halyards and foredeck area where 
the bowman has been working since 1991.

1991 C 34-36R so the deck is composite. I assume also of the most part 
however the brief design notes mention a mixture of kevlar and balsa.  Does 
anybody know where the distinction is around the boat?

I’ll be removing the mast for this work.

Also…from below or above?  I really want to leave the gelcoat intake and if I 
can work on the boat over the next few months…have the heated cabin environment 
to help curing.

Anybody been down this road?

Also….need to find a replacement mast boot.  The current one is worn and needs 
replacing.


Thanks!

James Bibb

SV Darwins Folly
1991 C 34-36R
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Deck core repair advice sought

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I know the R is stripped down but no inner fiberglass tray to hide wires
and lights?

Josh

On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 9:19 PM James Bibb via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Thanks Josh!  I bet we have a similar deck as well.  This helps me out.
>
> I have no head liner…beauty of the stripped down version so I have
> everything accessible.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> On Aug 31, 2018, at 5:05 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Mine is a 37+ but I presume that much of the design and construction is
> similar.
>
> The design notes regarding Kevlar have it as part of the layup. I think
> Ken Heaton might have a better idea but the idea is that the Kevlar simply
> makes up some of the layers of matting/roving in the fiberglass. I would
> expect it in the hull and would not be surprised to see it in the deck.
> Hard to say if it would be preferentially placed in the inner or outer skin.
>
> As for the core, I was anticipating deck rot when I had my mast pulled.
> To my pleasant surprise the cabin top directly around the mast is not
> cored.  Throughout the boat you can see where coring starts and stops by
> the thickness changing.  A perfect example is near the toe rail.  There is
> a 3" wide deck section all the way around the boat.  I thought it was just
> a gutter.  It is, but it is also an area which is not cored.  Same thing in
> the anchor locker as the hull walls approach the toe rail.  Repairs from in
> the cabin have the challenge of not having direct access to the cabin top
> since there is a "headliner".  You can inspect and get an idea of what lies
> ahead but in order to re-core you would want unfettered access to the
> entire area of rot.  You'd be best cut around the rim to remove the entire
> headliner.  I do like the idea of not disturbing the outer skin.  If you
> end up going the outside route I suggest trying to keep as much of the skin
> together as a single piece or symmetrical pieces.  A product I like that
> can finish off this type of work is kiwi-grip.  It is a urethane non-skid
> with a thick coat and variable texture.  It covers seams in the skins great.
>
> Rig-rit sells mast boot tape which I like.  Black 2mm thick, 5' wide.
> http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/SparParts/Mast_boot_%20Tape.php
>
> As much as I liked the product, when I had my mast re-stepped the yard
> used what they had and it seemed like almost exactly the same except that
> it was even wider - Like 6 or 7 inches.  Call Zanhizers in Solomons MD and
> they can probably send you a roll.  You might have to talk to Phil or Jack.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 8:27 PM James Bibb via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> I have some soft deck repair anticipated around my mast opening…above
>> head on port cabin leading edge where folks jump the halyards and foredeck
>> area where the bowman has been working since 1991.
>>
>> 1991 C 34-36R so the deck is composite. I assume also of the most part
>> however the brief design notes mention a mixture of kevlar and balsa.  Does
>> anybody know where the distinction is around the boat?
>>
>> I’ll be removing the mast for this work.
>>
>> Also…from below or above?  I really want to leave the gelcoat intake and
>> if I can work on the boat over the next few months…have the heated cabin
>> environment to help curing.
>>
>> Anybody been down this road?
>>
>> Also….need to find a replacement mast boot.  The current one is worn and
>> needs replacing.
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> James Bibb
>>
>> SV Darwins Folly
>> 1991 C 34-36R
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Deck core repair advice sought

[James Bibb via CnC-List]

Thanks Josh!  I bet we have a similar deck as well.  This helps me out.  

I have no head liner…beauty of the stripped down version so I have everything 
accessible.  

Thanks. 



> On Aug 31, 2018, at 5:05 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Mine is a 37+ but I presume that much of the design and construction is 
> similar.
> 
> The design notes regarding Kevlar have it as part of the layup. I think Ken 
> Heaton might have a better idea but the idea is that the Kevlar simply makes 
> up some of the layers of matting/roving in the fiberglass. I would expect it 
> in the hull and would not be surprised to see it in the deck. Hard to say if 
> it would be preferentially placed in the inner or outer skin.
> 
> As for the core, I was anticipating deck rot when I had my mast pulled.  To 
> my pleasant surprise the cabin top directly around the mast is not cored.  
> Throughout the boat you can see where coring starts and stops by the 
> thickness changing.  A perfect example is near the toe rail.  There is a 3" 
> wide deck section all the way around the boat.  I thought it was just a 
> gutter.  It is, but it is also an area which is not cored.  Same thing in the 
> anchor locker as the hull walls approach the toe rail.  Repairs from in the 
> cabin have the challenge of not having direct access to the cabin top since 
> there is a "headliner".  You can inspect and get an idea of what lies ahead 
> but in order to re-core you would want unfettered access to the entire area 
> of rot.  You'd be best cut around the rim to remove the entire headliner.  I 
> do like the idea of not disturbing the outer skin.  If you end up going the 
> outside route I suggest trying to keep as much of the skin together as a 
> single piece or symmetrical pieces.  A product I like that can finish off 
> this type of work is kiwi-grip.  It is a urethane non-skid with a thick coat 
> and variable texture.  It covers seams in the skins great.
> 
> Rig-rit sells mast boot tape which I like.  Black 2mm thick, 5' wide. 
> http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/SparParts/Mast_boot_%20Tape.php 
> 
> 
> As much as I liked the product, when I had my mast re-stepped the yard used 
> what they had and it seemed like almost exactly the same except that it was 
> even wider - Like 6 or 7 inches.  Call Zanhizers in Solomons MD and they can 
> probably send you a roll.  You might have to talk to Phil or Jack.
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk 
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 8:27 PM James Bibb via CnC-List  > wrote:
> I have some soft deck repair anticipated around my mast opening…above head on 
> port cabin leading edge where folks jump the halyards and foredeck area where 
> the bowman has been working since 1991. 
> 
> 1991 C 34-36R so the deck is composite. I assume also of the most part 
> however the brief design notes mention a mixture of kevlar and balsa.  Does 
> anybody know where the distinction is around the boat?  
> 
> I’ll be removing the mast for this work.  
> 
> Also…from below or above?  I really want to leave the gelcoat intake and if I 
> can work on the boat over the next few months…have the heated cabin 
> environment to help curing. 
> 
> Anybody been down this road?
> 
> Also….need to find a replacement mast boot.  The current one is worn and 
> needs replacing. 
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> James Bibb
> 
> SV Darwins Folly 
> 1991 C 34-36R
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Deck core repair advice sought

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Mine is a 37+ but I presume that much of the design and construction is
similar.

The design notes regarding Kevlar have it as part of the layup. I think Ken
Heaton might have a better idea but the idea is that the Kevlar simply
makes up some of the layers of matting/roving in the fiberglass. I would
expect it in the hull and would not be surprised to see it in the deck.
Hard to say if it would be preferentially placed in the inner or outer skin.

As for the core, I was anticipating deck rot when I had my mast pulled.  To
my pleasant surprise the cabin top directly around the mast is not cored.
Throughout the boat you can see where coring starts and stops by the
thickness changing.  A perfect example is near the toe rail.  There is a 3"
wide deck section all the way around the boat.  I thought it was just a
gutter.  It is, but it is also an area which is not cored.  Same thing in
the anchor locker as the hull walls approach the toe rail.  Repairs from in
the cabin have the challenge of not having direct access to the cabin top
since there is a "headliner".  You can inspect and get an idea of what lies
ahead but in order to re-core you would want unfettered access to the
entire area of rot.  You'd be best cut around the rim to remove the entire
headliner.  I do like the idea of not disturbing the outer skin.  If you
end up going the outside route I suggest trying to keep as much of the skin
together as a single piece or symmetrical pieces.  A product I like that
can finish off this type of work is kiwi-grip.  It is a urethane non-skid
with a thick coat and variable texture.  It covers seams in the skins great.

Rig-rit sells mast boot tape which I like.  Black 2mm thick, 5' wide.
http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/SparParts/Mast_boot_%20Tape.php

As much as I liked the product, when I had my mast re-stepped the yard used
what they had and it seemed like almost exactly the same except that it was
even wider - Like 6 or 7 inches.  Call Zanhizers in Solomons MD and they
can probably send you a roll.  You might have to talk to Phil or Jack.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 8:27 PM James Bibb via CnC-List 
wrote:

> I have some soft deck repair anticipated around my mast opening…above head
> on port cabin leading edge where folks jump the halyards and foredeck area
> where the bowman has been working since 1991.
>
> 1991 C 34-36R so the deck is composite. I assume also of the most part
> however the brief design notes mention a mixture of kevlar and balsa.  Does
> anybody know where the distinction is around the boat?
>
> I’ll be removing the mast for this work.
>
> Also…from below or above?  I really want to leave the gelcoat intake and
> if I can work on the boat over the next few months…have the heated cabin
> environment to help curing.
>
> Anybody been down this road?
>
> Also….need to find a replacement mast boot.  The current one is worn and
> needs replacing.
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> James Bibb
>
> SV Darwins Folly
> 1991 C 34-36R
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray