Re: Stus-List Rust stains and welding

2015-08-18 Thread Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List

  
  

Thanks for all the replies - I'll look into the acid options
locally.

As for the welding - I think my best bet is to suck it up - remove
the rear pulpit and take it into a shop for welding.  The broken
weld is right at one of the deck anchors so it would be tough not to
damage the boat.  Plus then they could properly repair the crappy
weld job the mobile guy did -- I don't think he used stainless for
the core.  

Thanks,
Mark



There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana
On 2015-08-18 1:00 AM, Russ 
  Melody via CnC-List wrote:


  Hi Mark,
  
  I use phosphoric acid ~ 50% and a "scotchbrite" pad to clean up
  rust stains. I think the principle ingredient of CLR is a dilute
  version
  of what I use so it might take more time. Scrubbing with the pad
  
  acid defiantly speeds things up, allowing you to rinse in less
  time than
  a soak.
  
  Any significant heat treatment (welding) on S/S  will affect it's
  protective oxide layer. To restore the affected area we use a
  "pickling paste" which is just a fancy name for a really strong
  acid thickened enough to hang almost vertical for a while doing
  it's job.
  Copious amounts of water is recommenced to be on hand to get rid
  of it.
  
  
  The best welding process for anything that cannot be removed from
  the
  boat is shielded gas, TIG or MIG, not a fluxed electrode. A tad
  more
  expensive but a much better job and no splatter clean-up. 
  
  If you have to go other and with any grinding keep the decks wet,
  water
  flowing, around the work area. This will prevent hot stuff
  sticking to
  soft stuff. 
  
  Cheers,
  Russ
  Sweet
  35 mk-1
  
  At 12:48 PM 17/08/2015, you wrote:
  
  Last year I had
noticed a small
crack in my rear pulpit tubing.
This spring before launch I hired a mobile welder to come out to
the boat
repair the area - he had a tough time with the wind swirling and
had to
repeatedly grind down the dirty weld to do it over.

The final repair was adequate (pretty rough - but sealed the
crack and
seemed solid).  Unfortunately a few weeks later I discovered a
million little rust stains in the gel coat.  We tried to scrub
them
out with Comet - but mostly just brightened up the gel coat. 
CLR
didn't seem to do much - maybe a longer soak?

Any suggestions on cleaning?  I'm wondering about doing a bit of
a
white wash with stain to see if that will clean them.

Now the area he repaired is showing some signs of rust -
obviously he
welded with steel and that is rusting.  I had another weld that
gave
way (a lower bracket on the rear pulpit) - and I'd rather avoid
repeating
the same issue.  Not sure how close to fiberglass they can
safely
weld - removing the whole rear pulpit wouldn't be a fun process,
but
likely smart to get it done properly.

Any specific questions I should be asking of a stainless welder?
Recommendations in Halifax area?
I'm also wanting to build a small arch for a solar panel - maybe
integrated right into the rear pulpit

Mark
CS 30 - Prosecco


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Re: Stus-List Rust stains and welding

2015-08-18 Thread svpegasus38




  

I think hou are on the right track. You will get a better job. I can do 
welding but when my stern pulpit need work I took it in. They did a much better 
job than I could have done. 
Doug MountjoysvPegasusLF38 just west of Ballard, WA.





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Re: Stus-List Rust stains and welding

2015-08-18 Thread Bill Coleman via CnC-List
Just a thought, When I did my major refit, I made mounting plates that
matched those on the rear pulpit, welded studs onto the plates that poked
through the plates and were threaded on both ends. Those plates then become
permanently attached to the boat.  Then I just pushed the pulpit over the
studs and put acorn nuts on, so it is a very simple operation of removing 8
nuts to remove the pulpit - 

 

Bill Coleman

CC 39  Erie, PA

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Mark
Bodnar via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 2:22 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Dr. Mark Bodnar
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rust stains and welding

 


Thanks for all the replies - I'll look into the acid options locally.

As for the welding - I think my best bet is to suck it up - remove the rear
pulpit and take it into a shop for welding.  The broken weld is right at one
of the deck anchors so it would be tough not to damage the boat.  Plus then
they could properly repair the crappy weld job the mobile guy did -- I don't
think he used stainless for the core.  

Thanks,
Mark




 
 
There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana

On 2015-08-18 1:00 AM, Russ  Melody via CnC-List wrote:

Hi Mark,

I use phosphoric acid ~ 50% and a scotchbrite pad to clean up rust stains.
I think the principle ingredient of CLR is a dilute version of what I use so
it might take more time. Scrubbing with the pad  acid defiantly speeds
things up, allowing you to rinse in less time than a soak.

Any significant heat treatment (welding) on S/S  will affect it's protective
oxide layer. To restore the affected area we use a pickling paste which is
just a fancy name for a really strong acid thickened enough to hang almost
vertical for a while doing it's job. Copious amounts of water is recommenced
to be on hand to get rid of it. 

The best welding process for anything that cannot be removed from the boat
is shielded gas, TIG or MIG, not a fluxed electrode. A tad more expensive
but a much better job and no splatter clean-up. 

If you have to go other and with any grinding keep the decks wet, water
flowing, around the work area. This will prevent hot stuff sticking to soft
stuff. 

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

At 12:48 PM 17/08/2015, you wrote:




Last year I had noticed a small crack in my rear pulpit tubing.
This spring before launch I hired a mobile welder to come out to the boat
repair the area - he had a tough time with the wind swirling and had to
repeatedly grind down the dirty weld to do it over.

The final repair was adequate (pretty rough - but sealed the crack and
seemed solid).  Unfortunately a few weeks later I discovered a million
little rust stains in the gel coat.  We tried to scrub them out with Comet -
but mostly just brightened up the gel coat.  CLR didn't seem to do much -
maybe a longer soak?

Any suggestions on cleaning?  I'm wondering about doing a bit of a white
wash with stain to see if that will clean them.

Now the area he repaired is showing some signs of rust - obviously he welded
with steel and that is rusting.  I had another weld that gave way (a lower
bracket on the rear pulpit) - and I'd rather avoid repeating the same issue.
Not sure how close to fiberglass they can safely weld - removing the whole
rear pulpit wouldn't be a fun process, but likely smart to get it done
properly.

Any specific questions I should be asking of a stainless welder?
Recommendations in Halifax area?
I'm also wanting to build a small arch for a solar panel - maybe integrated
right into the rear pulpit

Mark
CS 30 - Prosecco


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Re: Stus-List Rust stains and welding

2015-08-18 Thread Dennis C. via CnC-List
I'd be careful with any abrasive products.  They'll eventually wear off the
gelcoat.  The only abrasive I would even suggest for gelcoat is AquaBuff
2000.  It's a polishing compound.  It will smooth and polish gelcoat but is
still lightly abrasive.

I used to use SoftScrub with bleach but decided that was too abrasive.

Now I use Scrubbing Bubbles Foaming Bleach.  Does an awesome job removing
mildew.  Not sure how it would work on rust stains.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:35 PM, Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:

 Barkeeper's Friend. Available at Canadian Tire. I swear by this stuff.
 (it's acid based, forget which acid, but I've been using it on my gelcoat
 for years on two boats).

 Steve
 Suhana, CC 32
 Toronto

 On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 3:01 PM, svpegasu...@gmail.com 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:

 I think hou are on the right track. You will get a better job. I can do
 welding but when my stern pulpit need work I took it in. They did a much
 better job than I could have done.


 Doug Mountjoy

 svPegasus

 LF38

 just west of Ballard, WA.



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Re: Stus-List Rust stains and welding

2015-08-18 Thread Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List
Barkeeper's Friend. Available at Canadian Tire. I swear by this stuff.
(it's acid based, forget which acid, but I've been using it on my gelcoat
for years on two boats).

Steve
Suhana, CC 32
Toronto

On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 3:01 PM, svpegasu...@gmail.com 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:

 I think hou are on the right track. You will get a better job. I can do
 welding but when my stern pulpit need work I took it in. They did a much
 better job than I could have done.


 Doug Mountjoy

 svPegasus

 LF38

 just west of Ballard, WA.



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Re: Stus-List Rust stains and welding

2015-08-18 Thread Chuck S via CnC-List
Around here, Bar Keeper's Friend is not found at marine supply stores, but most 
food stores carry it like Shop Rite, Acme, etc. It is found near the other 
kitchen cleaning products. There is a powder in a can (like Ajax) and a liguid 
creme in a tube. Good stuff that has been made for 100 years. 




Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 CC 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

- Original Message -

From: Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Stevan Plavsa stevanpla...@gmail.com 
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 3:35:02 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rust stains and welding 

Barkeeper's Friend. Available at Canadian Tire. I swear by this stuff. (it's 
acid based, forget which acid, but I've been using it on my gelcoat for years 
on two boats). 

Steve 
Suhana, CC 32 
Toronto 

On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 3:01 PM, svpegasu...@gmail.com  cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
 wrote: 





I think hou are on the right track. You will get a better job. I can do welding 
but when my stern pulpit need work I took it in. They did a much better job 
than I could have done. 




Doug Mountjoy 

svPegasus 

LF38 

just west of Ballard, WA. 



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Re: Stus-List Rust stains and welding

2015-08-18 Thread Frederick G Street via CnC-List
From Wikipedia:

 Unlike some other abrasive cleaning products, such as Comet and Ajax, Bar 
 Keepers Friend uses oxalic acid as its primary active ingredient.


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

 On Aug 18, 2015, at 2:35 PM, Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 
 Barkeeper's Friend. Available at Canadian Tire. I swear by this stuff. (it's 
 acid based, forget which acid, but I've been using it on my gelcoat for years 
 on two boats).
 
 Steve
 Suhana, CC 32
 Toronto

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Re: Stus-List Rust stains and welding

2015-08-17 Thread dwight veinot via CnC-List
homemade oxalic acid rust stain remover or  this:
http://ca.binnacle.com/product_info.php?products_id=1083

Dwight Veinot
CC 35 MKII, *Alianna*
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net


On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 4:48 PM, Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:


 Last year I had noticed a small crack in my rear pulpit tubing.
 This spring before launch I hired a mobile welder to come out to the boat
 repair the area - he had a tough time with the wind swirling and had to
 repeatedly grind down the dirty weld to do it over.

 The final repair was adequate (pretty rough - but sealed the crack and
 seemed solid).  Unfortunately a few weeks later I discovered a million
 little rust stains in the gel coat.  We tried to scrub them out with Comet
 - but mostly just brightened up the gel coat.  CLR didn't seem to do much -
 maybe a longer soak?

 Any suggestions on cleaning?  I'm wondering about doing a bit of a white
 wash with stain to see if that will clean them.

 Now the area he repaired is showing some signs of rust - obviously he
 welded with steel and that is rusting.  I had another weld that gave way (a
 lower bracket on the rear pulpit) - and I'd rather avoid repeating the same
 issue.  Not sure how close to fiberglass they can safely weld - removing
 the whole rear pulpit wouldn't be a fun process, but likely smart to get it
 done properly.

 Any specific questions I should be asking of a stainless welder?
 Recommendations in Halifax area?
 I'm also wanting to build a small arch for a solar panel - maybe
 integrated right into the rear pulpit

 Mark
 CS 30 - Prosecco


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Re: Stus-List Rust stains and welding

2015-08-17 Thread Russ Melody via CnC-List

Hi Mark,

I use phosphoric acid ~ 50% and a scotchbrite pad to clean up rust 
stains. I think the principle ingredient of CLR is a dilute version 
of what I use so it might take more time. Scrubbing with the pad  
acid defiantly speeds things up, allowing you to rinse in less time 
than a soak.


Any significant heat treatment (welding) on S/S  will affect it's 
protective oxide layer. To restore the affected area we use a 
pickling paste which is just a fancy name for a really strong acid 
thickened enough to hang almost vertical for a while doing it's job. 
Copious amounts of water is recommenced to be on hand to get rid of it.


The best welding process for anything that cannot be removed from the 
boat is shielded gas, TIG or MIG, not a fluxed electrode. A tad more 
expensive but a much better job and no splatter clean-up.


If you have to go other and with any grinding keep the decks wet, 
water flowing, around the work area. This will prevent hot stuff 
sticking to soft stuff.


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

At 12:48 PM 17/08/2015, you wrote:


Last year I had noticed a small crack in my rear pulpit tubing.
This spring before launch I hired a mobile welder to come out to the 
boat repair the area - he had a tough time with the wind swirling 
and had to repeatedly grind down the dirty weld to do it over.


The final repair was adequate (pretty rough - but sealed the crack 
and seemed solid).  Unfortunately a few weeks later I discovered a 
million little rust stains in the gel coat.  We tried to scrub them 
out with Comet - but mostly just brightened up the gel coat.  CLR 
didn't seem to do much - maybe a longer soak?


Any suggestions on cleaning?  I'm wondering about doing a bit of a 
white wash with stain to see if that will clean them.


Now the area he repaired is showing some signs of rust - obviously 
he welded with steel and that is rusting.  I had another weld that 
gave way (a lower bracket on the rear pulpit) - and I'd rather avoid 
repeating the same issue.  Not sure how close to fiberglass they can 
safely weld - removing the whole rear pulpit wouldn't be a fun 
process, but likely smart to get it done properly.


Any specific questions I should be asking of a stainless welder? 
Recommendations in Halifax area?
I'm also wanting to build a small arch for a solar panel - maybe 
integrated right into the rear pulpit


Mark
CS 30 - Prosecco


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Re: Stus-List Rust stains and welding

2015-08-17 Thread Jim Watts via CnC-List
The heat of welding will change the physical properties of stainless, so he
may (probably did) use stainless rod but it's now less stainless. You could
try repassivating it with a product called Wichinox.
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|10918|2303285|2303294id=1819274

Davis FSR will remove the rust stains. If you want to use just the active
ingredient, it's oxalic acid. You can buy it as Wood Bleach at hardware
stores.
I'm not sure muriatic acid would be appropriate here.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
CC 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

On 17 August 2015 at 13:03, Joel Aronson via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 wrote:

 Muriatic acid will get ride of the rust stains.  Sudbury Hull Cleaner
 contains it.

 My rigger welded my pushpit, but he is in Annapolis.  Not sure what he
 used for welding rod.

 Joel
 35/3

 On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:


 Last year I had noticed a small crack in my rear pulpit tubing.
 This spring before launch I hired a mobile welder to come out to the boat
 repair the area - he had a tough time with the wind swirling and had to
 repeatedly grind down the dirty weld to do it over.

 The final repair was adequate (pretty rough - but sealed the crack and
 seemed solid).  Unfortunately a few weeks later I discovered a million
 little rust stains in the gel coat.  We tried to scrub them out with Comet
 - but mostly just brightened up the gel coat.  CLR didn't seem to do much -
 maybe a longer soak?

 Any suggestions on cleaning?  I'm wondering about doing a bit of a white
 wash with stain to see if that will clean them.

 Now the area he repaired is showing some signs of rust - obviously he
 welded with steel and that is rusting.  I had another weld that gave way (a
 lower bracket on the rear pulpit) - and I'd rather avoid repeating the same
 issue.  Not sure how close to fiberglass they can safely weld - removing
 the whole rear pulpit wouldn't be a fun process, but likely smart to get it
 done properly.

 Any specific questions I should be asking of a stainless welder?
 Recommendations in Halifax area?
 I'm also wanting to build a small arch for a solar panel - maybe
 integrated right into the rear pulpit

 Mark
 CS 30 - Prosecco


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 --
 Joel
 301 541 8551

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Re: Stus-List Rust stains and welding

2015-08-17 Thread Joel Aronson via CnC-List
Muriatic acid will get ride of the rust stains.  Sudbury Hull Cleaner
contains it.

My rigger welded my pushpit, but he is in Annapolis.  Not sure what he used
for welding rod.

Joel
35/3

On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:


 Last year I had noticed a small crack in my rear pulpit tubing.
 This spring before launch I hired a mobile welder to come out to the boat
 repair the area - he had a tough time with the wind swirling and had to
 repeatedly grind down the dirty weld to do it over.

 The final repair was adequate (pretty rough - but sealed the crack and
 seemed solid).  Unfortunately a few weeks later I discovered a million
 little rust stains in the gel coat.  We tried to scrub them out with Comet
 - but mostly just brightened up the gel coat.  CLR didn't seem to do much -
 maybe a longer soak?

 Any suggestions on cleaning?  I'm wondering about doing a bit of a white
 wash with stain to see if that will clean them.

 Now the area he repaired is showing some signs of rust - obviously he
 welded with steel and that is rusting.  I had another weld that gave way (a
 lower bracket on the rear pulpit) - and I'd rather avoid repeating the same
 issue.  Not sure how close to fiberglass they can safely weld - removing
 the whole rear pulpit wouldn't be a fun process, but likely smart to get it
 done properly.

 Any specific questions I should be asking of a stainless welder?
 Recommendations in Halifax area?
 I'm also wanting to build a small arch for a solar panel - maybe
 integrated right into the rear pulpit

 Mark
 CS 30 - Prosecco


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-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Rust stains and welding

2015-08-17 Thread William Walker via CnC-List
FSR, fiberglass stain remover.  Takes out trusts stain.  Use on my Florida, 
sorry to say, power boat.
Bill Walker
CnC 36
Pentwater, Mi
On the inland sea.   



Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Monday, August 17, 2015 Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
wrote:
Last year I had noticed a small crack in my rear pulpit tubing. This spring 
before launch I hired a mobile welder to come out to the boat repair the area - 
he had a tough time with the wind swirling and had to repeatedly grind down the 
dirty weld to do it over. The final repair was adequate (pretty rough - but 
sealed the crack and seemed solid). Unfortunately a few weeks later I 
discovered a million little rust stains in the gel coat. We tried to scrub them 
out with Comet - but mostly just brightened up the gel coat. CLR didn't seem to 
do much - maybe a longer soak? Any suggestions on cleaning? I'm wondering about 
doing a bit of a white wash with stain to see if that will clean them. Now the 
area he repaired is showing some signs of rust - obviously he welded with steel 
and that is rusting. I had another weld that gave way (a lower bracket on the 
rear pulpit) - and I'd rather avoid repeating the same issue. Not sure how 
close to fiberglass they can safely weld - removing the whole rear pulpit 
wouldn't be a fun process, but likely smart to get it done properly. Any 
specific questions I should be asking of a stainless welder? Recommendations in 
Halifax area? I'm also wanting to build a small arch for a solar panel - maybe 
integrated right into the rear pulpit Mark CS 30 - Prosecco 
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Re: Stus-List Rust stains and welding

2015-08-17 Thread Rick Rohwer via CnC-List
Citric acid @ 20%

Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 17, 2015, at 1:11 PM, Jim Watts via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
 wrote:
 
 The heat of welding will change the physical properties of stainless, so he 
 may (probably did) use stainless rod but it's now less stainless. You could 
 try repassivating it with a product called Wichinox. 
 http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|10918|2303285|2303294id=1819274
 
 Davis FSR will remove the rust stains. If you want to use just the active 
 ingredient, it's oxalic acid. You can buy it as Wood Bleach at hardware 
 stores.
 I'm not sure muriatic acid would be appropriate here.
 
 Jim Watts
 Paradigm Shift
 CC 35 Mk III
 Victoria, BC
 
 On 17 August 2015 at 13:03, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 Muriatic acid will get ride of the rust stains.  Sudbury Hull Cleaner 
 contains it.
 
 My rigger welded my pushpit, but he is in Annapolis.  Not sure what he used 
 for welding rod.
 
 Joel
 35/3
 
 On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 
 Last year I had noticed a small crack in my rear pulpit tubing.
 This spring before launch I hired a mobile welder to come out to the boat 
 repair the area - he had a tough time with the wind swirling and had to 
 repeatedly grind down the dirty weld to do it over.
 
 The final repair was adequate (pretty rough - but sealed the crack and 
 seemed solid).  Unfortunately a few weeks later I discovered a million 
 little rust stains in the gel coat.  We tried to scrub them out with Comet 
 - but mostly just brightened up the gel coat.  CLR didn't seem to do much - 
 maybe a longer soak?
 
 Any suggestions on cleaning?  I'm wondering about doing a bit of a white 
 wash with stain to see if that will clean them.
 
 Now the area he repaired is showing some signs of rust - obviously he 
 welded with steel and that is rusting.  I had another weld that gave way (a 
 lower bracket on the rear pulpit) - and I'd rather avoid repeating the same 
 issue.  Not sure how close to fiberglass they can safely weld - removing 
 the whole rear pulpit wouldn't be a fun process, but likely smart to get it 
 done properly.
 
 Any specific questions I should be asking of a stainless welder? 
 Recommendations in Halifax area?
 I'm also wanting to build a small arch for a solar panel - maybe integrated 
 right into the rear pulpit
 
 Mark
 CS 30 - Prosecco
 
 
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 -- 
 Joel 
 301 541 8551
 
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