Re: Problem in registering a project at openmoko wiki project list
ok, I got the problem. Sorry for the inconvenience. On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 10:44 AM, saurabh gupta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I tried to register a project at the open moko wiki project list for my > GSoC project, but it shows the following error: > "ERROR: Could not create group: ERROR: value too long for type character > varying(255)" > > I am not getting where it has the problem for type character variation. I > tried many combinations regarding the text to be entered there, but > everytime the same problem happens. Should i register at the openmoko > project list at wiki or somewhere else. > > Thanks in advance... > > -- > Saurabh Gupta > Electronics and Communication Engg. > NSIT,New Delhi > > -- Saurabh Gupta Electronics and Communication Engg. NSIT,New Delhi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Problem in registering a project at openmoko wiki project list
Hello everyone, I tried to register a project at the open moko wiki project list for my GSoC project, but it shows the following error: "ERROR: Could not create group: ERROR: value too long for type character varying(255)" I am not getting where it has the problem for type character variation. I tried many combinations regarding the text to be entered there, but everytime the same problem happens. Should i register at the openmoko project list at wiki or somewhere else. Thanks in advance... -- Saurabh Gupta Electronics and Communication Engg. NSIT,New Delhi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:55 PM, Kevin Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Please note this is an OFF LIST reply, since it is off topic for > Openmoko mailing lists. Huh? I agree, this is off topic but your reply did go out to the entire list. > > > On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 9:02 PM, Lowell Higley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > If I make an observation.. I am an American by birth but have lived all > over > > the world.. In the middle of the Pacific, Korea, and now Europe (again). > > One of the things I have noticed is that the laws in Europe tend to > protect > > the consumer whereas the laws in the US tend to protect big business. > > Why do you instantly assume there two sides are opposed to each other? > Now, let me say I agree that corporations (definition: a legal entity > recognized by the government for the purpose of shielding the > individual for personal responsibillity for their actions) are in > general a bad thing since it means if a person does something "bad" > while conducting business they don't suffer penalties. If, however, a > person running an honest business manages to be "big", I see nothing > wrong at ALL with them. > Businesses (big AND small) provide services and products to people. > They don't use violence to get what they want (even Microsoft doesn't > send the police or military to your house for refusing to buy their > licenses). If people said "I don't like how you conduct business and I > refuse to give you my money!" those businesses (large and small) would > stop doing that thing because they want to stay in business! > First, the observation was a generalization.. notice the word "tend". No "assumptions" were made. No one said the two sides were opposed. If that is something you drew from the observation then I think that is something you added...not me. Again, notice the words "tend to". Nothing is absolute nor did I infer it was. Perhaps I should have used the verbage "laws tend to favor" and not "protect"? Would that make a difference? > > > I could give many examples but I think this whole "contact vs. no > contract" > > discussion is a perfect example. imho. > > I was raised as a liberal Democrat. That said, I can sit back and > (with the best of them) argue the liberal perspective about how "big > business takes advantage" of the "little guy/working class". > > I was also raised to believe that I should question everything and not > accept what other people tell me without some proof. In EVERY > arguement against "big business" there is one key factor - the > government. How "big" might Microsoft be if the government (which > funds every government school and university in just about every > nation of the world) didn't pick teachers who demanded their > assignments be submitted in .doc format? How many business might exist > worldwide if the government didn't mandate licenses and zoning and all > kinds of other things that prevent people (who create wealth by simply > existing!) who have very little money from starting honest businesses > and earning money by providing services and goods to people? How many > deaths might be avoided if the government let people and their doctors > determine if a medication was "safe enough" for their specific > situation? > No one has asked you to accept anything. It was merely a "personal observation." It was not some sort of law or edict I came down from the hills with to force on anyone. If you want evidence of why I believe my observation is correct, I'd be happy to share them with you. However, I don't think this is the time or place for it. > > > > > Just a personal observation... shoot me down if you like. > > I don't mean to shoot you down. I just find it disconcerning how many > people "attack" business owners, demand regulation which forces up > prices and reduces control and than blame businesses for increased > prices and decreased control. Hopefully some people will critically > evaluate things... > No one "attacked" business owners. I merely pointed out a difference *I* believe exists in the laws between the US and Europe. Not once did I ever say business(es), big or small, was doing anything wrong in either the US or Europe. Again, if you would like I will share with you why I believe my observation is true... I could also point out why I think both systems is good for consumers and business alike (they would obviously be different lists). However, I don't think it is appropriate to post to the list because it is wildly off topic, as you previously highlighted. Sometimes I think messages on this list get blown way out of proportion. Right now, I believe that is the case with this entire thread. If I offended anyone with my observation, I apologize, that was not my intent. > > > > > > > ___ > > Openmoko community mailing list > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > > _
GTA03 in December?
I saw a post earlier today that hinted that the GTA03 may be released in December of this year. I'm assuming that the GTA02 will be available in July. Does this mean that the lifespan of GTA02 is just six months (July through December)? I'm not sure what to make of this. Ajit ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
Kevin Dean writes: >On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Because the price of the "free" phone is bundled into the price of the >> contract. > >I don't think so. The only thing that changes in the deal is the >profit margin of the company. The costs of the mobile carrier also >indirectly include the costs of electricity but if I said "I'm not >buying electricity from you so I shouldn't pay the mark up from >electricity" I would just sound really really stupid. I'm well aware >that the mobile providers pays for the phone and as a cost of doing >business, charges more for their products. Well, yes, you would -- they can't offer their service if they don't buy electricity. The can offer their service without buying the phone they "give" me. >> If I don't get a phone, I shouldn't have to pay for one. > >Walk into T-Mobile or AT&T and buy a phone and sign up for a >contract. Write down how much you pay. Walk out, put that phone in >your car and walk back into the store and sign up for the same >contract without a phone. Write THAT price down. Compare and you'll >see they're the same. That's my objection. >You're not arguing you shouldn't have to pay for a phone, you're >arguing that you should be allowed to dictate the level of profit >someone else's company is able to make on transactions. Very close, but not exactly (I mentioned hair-splitting in my last message). They, of course, have the right to adopt any pricing strategy they want, and they've done so. I, of course, have the right to argue that their strategy is not to the interest of this particular consumer, on the grounds that they are bundling goods and services together that I feel should be separate. And I'm doing exactly that. I feel like I'm back on my high school debating team. >> Not quite -- you're also committed to pay the inflated price long >> enough to pay for the phone, > >And as long as that company pays taxes. And as long as that company >advertises. And as long as that company complies with minimum wage >laws. Well, no. Whether they comply with the law (including taxes etc) has nothing whatever to do with how long I pay my contract. One hopes that their pricing structure enables them to do that, but it doesn't appear anywhere on my bill. >I am aware that when a company spends money, in order to be profitable >they will reclaim those costs they will increase the price of their >products. I have no problem with a company making profit. In fact, I >would strongly PERFER it because companies that provide me services >tend to vanish when they don't make money. Oh, yes, I want them to make money for exactly the reasons you state. I don't want to pay for more of their profits than somebody who wants a subsidized phone, however. >> or pay for the phone under the guise of >> an "early termination" fee. > >You entered into the contract of your own free will. Entering into >that contract is merely claiming that your word has value. Why do you >complain about agreeing to something and then being held to that >agreement? The terms are stated up front, if you find them >disagreeable negotiate the terms. If you can't, don't enter into the >agreement. There's a couple of issues being entangled here. I don't object to anything you state in your paragraph above. I do object to the lack of the option I prefer. >The termination fee covers the loss to the company's profit margin >when you fail to complete your payment agreement. They do this so that >it's easier for customers to get cellular service. The cost of putting >up towers, hiring support staff, providing them with bathrooms, >purchasing computers, hiring programmers and engineers and all of that >is not small. To recoup that cost, they need to make a certain amount >of money. Putting a phone in the hands of people who don't have phones >ALSO costs money, and they need to ensure that if that customer fails >to generate profit for them, they will not face a loss from doing >business with that customer. Yes, yes, yes. I really do understand all that. It has nothing whatever to do with whether a customer really ought to be able to pay less to get a SIM card with no phone than a SIM card with phone. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
This is splitting hairs at a level the attorneys I know would be embarrassed to be a part of. Kevin Dean writes: >On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 6:41 PM, Robert Taylor ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Kevin Dean wrote: >>> I'm an American and your statement confuses me. Why is it "obvious" >>> that a contract without a phone should be cheaper? The service >>> (cellular connectivity for voice and/or data) is the same service no >>> matter what phone you have. >>> >>> In the US, the price of service contracts doesn't change. The price of >>> PHONES does when you agree to commit to a service contract but the >>> service contract doesn't. >>> >>> >> Which part of "a portion of the contract pays for you phone ... phone >> ISN'T FREE, YOU ARE FINANCING THE PURCHASE OF THE PHONE VIA THE >> CONTRACT" is hard to understand? > >I understand that statement ENTIRELY. Now that we're done beating down >straw men, where have I ONCE mentioned anything about a "free phone" >(with the exception of the use of quoting a previous poster, in >responce to his use of the term) ? > >I have not. > >The average person walks into a cellular retailer, purchases a phone >(A phone that is clearly marked as costing, say $199) signs up for the >two year contract and recieves a discount on the phone and begins a >service subscription. So far, so good. >To say that he's getting a free phone is stupid - he got a $199 phone When I signed up with T-Mobile, the market value of the phone they "gave" me wasn't displayed anywhere. It was described as a *free* phone. I did read the contract; if it said it anywhere, it was written in 1/2 point type around the margin like the "Santa clause". >as a bonus for signing up for a contractual service (a voluntary >service, by the way!). Did he pay for the phone? No. What he did was >reduce the phone company's profit margin by making them expend more >money in order to gain him as a customer of the recurring subscription >for vioce/data services. "Making"? I don't think so. I would have been happier if they'd reduced their profit margin the same amount by letting me walk out of the store with a naked SIM card and a lower monthly bill. Not allowing me that choice was entirely their decision. >If I walk into a retail outlet for my mobile service provider, I can >pay for a phone WITHOUT service - I get no credits or refunds from the >cellular provider. I pay for the phone. Haven't tried it. The local stores sure don't advertise that option, and it doesn't really address whether I can buy a plan without a phone (and not pay for the phone). >I can also have my OWN phone and walk into a cellular service provider >and sign up for a contract of video/data service. The price I pay for >that service is the same as the price paid by the person who took the >discount on the phone. I am simply creating a higher profit revenue >for that company in the process. And you see this as something other than being forced* to pay for the subsidized phone, without getting the phone? Your logic escapes me. *Using the term loosely. I realize nobody is forcing me to have the contract at all -- but given that I want the contract, paying the phone subsidy isn't optional. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
Please note this is an OFF LIST reply, since it is off topic for Openmoko mailing lists. On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 9:02 PM, Lowell Higley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If I make an observation.. I am an American by birth but have lived all over > the world.. In the middle of the Pacific, Korea, and now Europe (again). > One of the things I have noticed is that the laws in Europe tend to protect > the consumer whereas the laws in the US tend to protect big business. Why do you instantly assume there two sides are opposed to each other? Now, let me say I agree that corporations (definition: a legal entity recognized by the government for the purpose of shielding the individual for personal responsibillity for their actions) are in general a bad thing since it means if a person does something "bad" while conducting business they don't suffer penalties. If, however, a person running an honest business manages to be "big", I see nothing wrong at ALL with them. Businesses (big AND small) provide services and products to people. They don't use violence to get what they want (even Microsoft doesn't send the police or military to your house for refusing to buy their licenses). If people said "I don't like how you conduct business and I refuse to give you my money!" those businesses (large and small) would stop doing that thing because they want to stay in business! > I could give many examples but I think this whole "contact vs. no contract" > discussion is a perfect example. imho. I was raised as a liberal Democrat. That said, I can sit back and (with the best of them) argue the liberal perspective about how "big business takes advantage" of the "little guy/working class". I was also raised to believe that I should question everything and not accept what other people tell me without some proof. In EVERY arguement against "big business" there is one key factor - the government. How "big" might Microsoft be if the government (which funds every government school and university in just about every nation of the world) didn't pick teachers who demanded their assignments be submitted in .doc format? How many business might exist worldwide if the government didn't mandate licenses and zoning and all kinds of other things that prevent people (who create wealth by simply existing!) who have very little money from starting honest businesses and earning money by providing services and goods to people? How many deaths might be avoided if the government let people and their doctors determine if a medication was "safe enough" for their specific situation? > > Just a personal observation... shoot me down if you like. I don't mean to shoot you down. I just find it disconcerning how many people "attack" business owners, demand regulation which forces up prices and reduces control and than blame businesses for increased prices and decreased control. Hopefully some people will critically evaluate things... > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner
2008/6/12 ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > They're not about to give us a 10% or 20% break on our monthly bill, or > whatever percentage pays for the subsidy of a locked phone (like the > iPhone), otherwise the 'subsidy' no longer appears as a subsidy to the > end user who *does* buy a locked phone, the user sees it exactly as you > stated it -- they're financing their phone. And AT&T is going to want > that to appear as 'transparent' as possible to the consumer. a partial way round this situation: 1 take out a contract 2 get a free phone 3 get it unlocked 4 sell it on fleabay as nearly new you won't get the same back as the phone is 'worth', but it can still be used to somewhat offest the cost of buying a freerunner i've never tried this, i have no idea how much unlocked phones go for. it may or may not be worth the effort to you ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Announcement--Wiki skin
Dear all: For the easy management sack, from now on, the wiki skin will only keep default skins "Openmoko" template. Sorry for any inconvenience. Brenda ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Robert Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Oh okay so its semantics then. In the USA, the "contract" is for the service ONLY. That's why I asked in the beginning if we had a different definition of what it meant to contract. It's a lot like a grocery store that offers "buy one get one free" kind of sales, they create incentive to purchase by providing another product. The price of the service (video/voice) doesn't change depending on those incentives. You can still buy ONE product (in some areas... he he. Most people comply with laws and different areas interpret "buy one get one free" differently) at the same price even though by taking them up on the offer you gain more in the end if you do. It's a semantic issue perhaps. English has no word for "Umami", the kind of taste sensation you feel when biting into a piece of cheddar cheese. Prior to the assymilation of the term "deja vu" from French, there was no term for "the sensation of having done the same thing before". Mere words goes a LONG way towards understanding; sometimes nuances matter. > > *NOD* > > :) > > Rob > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03: New case? Bigger screen!
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > And I want it half the size:) > A tiny, nice phone with QVGA, not a notebook. If you want the double size, > why not just buy an eeepc? As the resident Devil's Advocate, I agree here. Lemme state this - I paid for a 1973 and Openmoko Inc. sent me a Freerunner to review the software progress. The next phone I spend my money on will have 3G (or better). If 03 isn't that device, simply ignore my post. :) > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Because the price of the "free" phone is bundled into the price of the > contract. I don't think so. The only thing that changes in the deal is the profit margin of the company. The costs of the mobile carrier also indirectly include the costs of electricity but if I said "I'm not buying electricity from you so I shouldn't pay the mark up from electricity" I would just sound really really stupid. I'm well aware that the mobile providers pays for the phone and as a cost of doing business, charges more for their products. > If I don't get a phone, I shouldn't have to pay for one. Walk into T-Mobile or AT&T and buy a phone and sign up for a contract. Write down how much you pay. Walk out, put that phone in your car and walk back into the store and sign up for the same contract without a phone. Write THAT price down. Compare and you'll see they're the same. You're not arguing you shouldn't have to pay for a phone, you're arguing that you should be allowed to dictate the level of profit someone else's company is able to make on transactions. > Not quite -- you're also committed to pay the inflated price long > enough to pay for the phone, And as long as that company pays taxes. And as long as that company advertises. And as long as that company complies with minimum wage laws. I am aware that when a company spends money, in order to be profitable they will reclaim those costs they will increase the price of their products. I have no problem with a company making profit. In fact, I would strongly PERFER it because companies that provide me services tend to vanish when they don't make money. > or pay for the phone under the guise of > an "early termination" fee. You entered into the contract of your own free will. Entering into that contract is merely claiming that your word has value. Why do you complain about agreeing to something and then being held to that agreement? The terms are stated up front, if you find them disagreeable negotiate the terms. If you can't, don't enter into the agreement. The termination fee covers the loss to the company's profit margin when you fail to complete your payment agreement. They do this so that it's easier for customers to get cellular service. The cost of putting up towers, hiring support staff, providing them with bathrooms, purchasing computers, hiring programmers and engineers and all of that is not small. To recoup that cost, they need to make a certain amount of money. Putting a phone in the hands of people who don't have phones ALSO costs money, and they need to ensure that if that customer fails to generate profit for them, they will not face a loss from doing business with that customer. > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No 3G for GTA03, 2G/EDGE only?
Dismal. although AT&T is currently scurrying to significantly upgrade their 3G network in order to support iPhone 2.0. http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=4800&cdvn=news&newsarticleid=25146 I don't think TMobile currently uses 3G. I barely even got EDGE coverage from Tmobile when I left the States last month. Only when in major markets. On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Robert Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Nkoli wrote: > > ... > > As a tmobile USA (non New York) user, 3G can wait till 2009 for all I > > care, but EDGE is definitely a necessity. Since the rest of the world > > will have been using 3G for 2-5 years by the time GTA03 is released, > > not having 3G in that device will be a really bad idea. Forget the > > camera, unless it is at least 3.2 MP with xenon or dual led flash. > > ... > Just out of curiosity - for all Americans here ... what is the > availability of 3g service in the States? > > Rob > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 6:41 PM, Robert Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Kevin Dean wrote: >> I'm an American and your statement confuses me. Why is it "obvious" >> that a contract without a phone should be cheaper? The service >> (cellular connectivity for voice and/or data) is the same service no >> matter what phone you have. >> >> In the US, the price of service contracts doesn't change. The price of >> PHONES does when you agree to commit to a service contract but the >> service contract doesn't. >> >> > Which part of "a portion of the contract pays for you phone ... phone > ISN'T FREE, YOU ARE FINANCING THE PURCHASE OF THE PHONE VIA THE > CONTRACT" is hard to understand? I understand that statement ENTIRELY. Now that we're done beating down straw men, where have I ONCE mentioned anything about a "free phone" (with the exception of the use of quoting a previous poster, in responce to his use of the term) ? I have not. The average person walks into a cellular retailer, purchases a phone (A phone that is clearly marked as costing, say $199) signs up for the two year contract and recieves a discount on the phone and begins a service subscription. To say that he's getting a free phone is stupid - he got a $199 phone as a bonus for signing up for a contractual service (a voluntary service, by the way!). Did he pay for the phone? No. What he did was reduce the phone company's profit margin by making them expend more money in order to gain him as a customer of the recurring subscription for vioce/data services. If I walk into a retail outlet for my mobile service provider, I can pay for a phone WITHOUT service - I get no credits or refunds from the cellular provider. I pay for the phone. I can also have my OWN phone and walk into a cellular service provider and sign up for a contract of video/data service. The price I pay for that service is the same as the price paid by the person who took the discount on the phone. I am simply creating a higher profit revenue for that company in the process. -Kevin > > Why do americans have such a hard time grasping this? > > Rob > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
> Why do americans have such a hard time grasping this? > > Rob > That's what I call starting a flame (from a flame) Kosa - Un mundo mejor es posible - ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Kevin Dean writes: > >On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> > >> US. To me, it's quite obvious that a contract without a phone > >> *should* be cheaper, but that's a long way from "is" (it actually > >> worked out for the best, since I've had a working phne all these > >> months as a result). > > > >I'm an American and your statement confuses me. Why is it "obvious" > >that a contract without a phone should be cheaper? The service > >(cellular connectivity for voice and/or data) is the same service no > >matter what phone you have. > > Because the price of the "free" phone is bundled into the price of the > contract. If I don't get a phone, I shouldn't have to pay for one. > > >In the US, the price of service contracts doesn't change. The price of > >PHONES does when you agree to commit to a service contract but the > >service contract doesn't. > > > > > >> > >>>The most obvious example of this is that one can choose how much to > >>>pay up front - on can choose the phone "for free" with one set of > >>>tariffs, or pay £75 on purchase and get the same number of minutes > >>>for £10 a month less (on an 18-month contract, for example). One can > >>>also get much cheaper contracts when no phone purchase is involved. > >> > > > >Not sure if you're confusing cause and effect here or if Brits just > >look at "cellular service" differently than Americans. You are > >implying that "the contract" is "the monthly service of voice/data > >connectivity and a handset". In the US, ONLY the monthly service of > >voice/data connectivity is contracted. It seems to me that what you're > >ACTUALLY doing when you make your purchase is purchasing a phone at > >some price, agreeing to a service level (monthly voice/data) and then > >financing the cost of that device through your monthly bill. By paying > >the £75 up front you're simply paying for the phone and NOT paying the > >cost of it in installments monthly. > > > >But from how I see it the service that is purchased (voice/data > >connectivity) remains the same price. > > Not quite -- you're also committed to pay the inflated price long > enough to pay for the phone, or pay for the phone under the guise of > an "early termination" fee. > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > If I make an observation.. I am an American by birth but have lived all over the world.. In the middle of the Pacific, Korea, and now Europe (again). One of the things I have noticed is that the laws in Europe tend to protect the consumer whereas the laws in the US tend to protect big business. I could give many examples but I think this whole "contact vs. no contract" discussion is a perfect example. imho. Just a personal observation... shoot me down if you like. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No 3G for GTA03, 2G/EDGE only?
Nkoli wrote: > ... > As a tmobile USA (non New York) user, 3G can wait till 2009 for all I > care, but EDGE is definitely a necessity. Since the rest of the world > will have been using 3G for 2-5 years by the time GTA03 is released, > not having 3G in that device will be a really bad idea. Forget the > camera, unless it is at least 3.2 MP with xenon or dual led flash. > ... Just out of curiosity - for all Americans here ... what is the availability of 3g service in the States? Rob ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner
ian douglas wrote: > But the carriers in America, in my experience (and I currently use a > phone on each of Verizon, AT&T and TMobile), simply don't discount their > monthly plan rates for using an unlocked phone on their network. > Whatever portion of your monthly plan isn't otherwise going towards a > subsidy is pure profit for them. > > They're not about to give us a 10% or 20% break on our monthly bill, or > whatever percentage pays for the subsidy of a locked phone (like the > iPhone), otherwise the 'subsidy' no longer appears as a subsidy to the > end user who *does* buy a locked phone, the user sees it exactly as you > stated it -- they're financing their phone. And AT&T is going to want > that to appear as 'transparent' as possible to the consumer. > > That's my thought on it, anyway. > > -id > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > Oh okay so its semantics then. *NOD* :) Rob ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
Kevin Dean writes: >On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> US. To me, it's quite obvious that a contract without a phone >> *should* be cheaper, but that's a long way from "is" (it actually >> worked out for the best, since I've had a working phne all these >> months as a result). > >I'm an American and your statement confuses me. Why is it "obvious" >that a contract without a phone should be cheaper? The service >(cellular connectivity for voice and/or data) is the same service no >matter what phone you have. Because the price of the "free" phone is bundled into the price of the contract. If I don't get a phone, I shouldn't have to pay for one. >In the US, the price of service contracts doesn't change. The price of >PHONES does when you agree to commit to a service contract but the >service contract doesn't. > > >> >>>The most obvious example of this is that one can choose how much to >>>pay up front - on can choose the phone "for free" with one set of >>>tariffs, or pay £75 on purchase and get the same number of minutes >>>for £10 a month less (on an 18-month contract, for example). One can >>>also get much cheaper contracts when no phone purchase is involved. >> > >Not sure if you're confusing cause and effect here or if Brits just >look at "cellular service" differently than Americans. You are >implying that "the contract" is "the monthly service of voice/data >connectivity and a handset". In the US, ONLY the monthly service of >voice/data connectivity is contracted. It seems to me that what you're >ACTUALLY doing when you make your purchase is purchasing a phone at >some price, agreeing to a service level (monthly voice/data) and then >financing the cost of that device through your monthly bill. By paying >the £75 up front you're simply paying for the phone and NOT paying the >cost of it in installments monthly. > >But from how I see it the service that is purchased (voice/data >connectivity) remains the same price. Not quite -- you're also committed to pay the inflated price long enough to pay for the phone, or pay for the phone under the guise of an "early termination" fee. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Dual SIM?
Am Mi 11. Juni 2008 schrieb Adilson Oliveira: > So, cells like the samsung d880 just swap electrically between the 2 SIM > cards? The spec say you can use both cards at the same time but don't > say exactly what "same time" means. There are phones out there that use 2 or 3 cards true-concurrently. I'm speaking of modules we can use for freerunner - I don't know of any that's supporting this feature. /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No 3G for GTA03, 2G/EDGE only?
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM, thomasg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That's (partly) true. > Nokias Symbian S60 and their S40 phones need to reboot - but that's only a > software problem and I don't really know why they do that. > > That is interesting. I've owned only nokia S60 devices since 2006 and have never had to restart a phone to switch between 2, 2.5 and 3G. I can speak for S60 v3, S60 v3 FP1 and FP2 - can't speak for any nokias before that since my S60 v2 device was not a nokia. Also, all phones that support 3G get significantly less battery life on 3G whether the signal is at full strength or not (much worse in the latter case). It was my understanding that the 3G radio used more power, but I may be wrong. As a tmobile USA (non New York) user, 3G can wait till 2009 for all I care, but EDGE is definitely a necessity. Since the rest of the world will have been using 3G for 2-5 years by the time GTA03 is released, not having 3G in that device will be a really bad idea. Forget the camera, unless it is at least 3.2 MP with xenon or dual led flash. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 camera + any chance to add SD card?
Am Mi 11. Juni 2008 schrieb Ron K. Jeffries: > I understand that GTA03 really needs to be a quick > turn, so the team can then invest in a new Freerunner product > with a serious bump in computing power (for openers). > > I am NOT in the camp that predicts a 12 month cycle > to get GTA03 out, as that would be a plan to fail. > > Give the experience learned with GAT01/GTA02 > I predict OpenMoko can ship GTA03 no later than > Christmas, 2008 I honestly hope you're wrong with this prediction! Would bore me to death... And no, I don't see chances are good for 2 SD-cards (Actually we're short on SD-connections at SoC). A pity, I'd like it much... Well plans change quickly (MOTD ;), there's nothing for sure right now it seems. /jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner
Robert Taylor wrote: > Which part of "a portion of the contract pays for you phone ... phone > ISN'T FREE, YOU ARE FINANCING THE PURCHASE OF THE PHONE VIA THE > CONTRACT" is hard to understand? > > Why do americans have such a hard time grasping this? Your statement makes perfect sense, Robert. But the carriers in America, in my experience (and I currently use a phone on each of Verizon, AT&T and TMobile), simply don't discount their monthly plan rates for using an unlocked phone on their network. Whatever portion of your monthly plan isn't otherwise going towards a subsidy is pure profit for them. They're not about to give us a 10% or 20% break on our monthly bill, or whatever percentage pays for the subsidy of a locked phone (like the iPhone), otherwise the 'subsidy' no longer appears as a subsidy to the end user who *does* buy a locked phone, the user sees it exactly as you stated it -- they're financing their phone. And AT&T is going to want that to appear as 'transparent' as possible to the consumer. That's my thought on it, anyway. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko official resell partners
On 6/11/08, Kyle Gordon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Harry Tsai wrote: > > > > UK > > TrueBox Technologies - http://www.TrueBox.co.uk Mr. Rob wood > £272 delivered to anywhere in the UK... > > http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-April/015080.html > says it's $399, from the US presumably. At the current exchange rate > that's £203... I think I can get it shipped across from the US for less > than £70 If that price include VAT, it is not that bad. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AW: Openmoko official resell partners
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escreveu: > > We have choosen to have only the EU version in our shop. > I see. We do have all 4 frequencies here in Brazil IIRC but the 850 is only used by one company that I don't want to have business anyway so the EU version makes more sense to me. Thanks. Adilson. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIUFL22cB5Bt7H7YARAs5wAKCJkx/7Okqf3Q2YDqRumAmKKtL3vgCgm4qo v0VFo0ur94m3s8/zfpGCFS0= =iWzq -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
Kevin Dean wrote: > I'm an American and your statement confuses me. Why is it "obvious" > that a contract without a phone should be cheaper? The service > (cellular connectivity for voice and/or data) is the same service no > matter what phone you have. > > In the US, the price of service contracts doesn't change. The price of > PHONES does when you agree to commit to a service contract but the > service contract doesn't. > > Which part of "a portion of the contract pays for you phone ... phone ISN'T FREE, YOU ARE FINANCING THE PURCHASE OF THE PHONE VIA THE CONTRACT" is hard to understand? Why do americans have such a hard time grasping this? Rob ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No 3G for GTA03, 2G/EDGE only?
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 3:20 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Well entry level ADSL here in belgium are 250 Kbits. > Also UMTS claimed 2Mbits are never acchieved except perhaps in densly > populated area I don't think you really tested UMTS/HSDPA/HSUPA, or at least not with proper hardware or with the wrong carrier. I'm pretty much a hardcore-user (at least if I'm at work, what fortunately is in that business) and did my own benchmarks. At least for the two big carriers in germany the datarates are just awsome (the other two carriers are widely disappointing in this area) and I get about 3000 kbps (net!) in phase2 (3.6 Mbit/s) covered areas and even more in the new phase3 (7.2 Mbit/s) areas. Note that I did this under real life conditions, no lab tests. So don't damn the technology if you hardware or your provider can't/won't use it properly. Also you really should use a dedicated HSPA/HSDPA-modem, no handy-built-in as that would explain that differences (and even more). I don't think EDGE is really an alternative solution - it's good for compensating the coverage, and it's definately good enough for use on a cellphone. Browsing is really good with EDGE. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wireless providers in the US
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 4:09 PM, ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ian douglas wrote: >> ... but not at AT&T plans are available coast-to-coast. Got it! This was something I wasn't aware of. I've lived in several states over the past handful of years and the plans I've had have all been the same? I would think it's actually HARDER not to offer some plan in other areas. Every plan offered on the website have been offered in stores. I've seen smaller carriers (like Bluegrass Wireless in Kentucky) offer plans that didn't cover the nation, but never large carriers offer geographically limited plans. How odd, thanks for pointing that out. > > at = all > > Lack of sleep = typos. My bad. > > -id > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No 3G for GTA03, 2G/EDGE only?
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 1:59 AM, Joerg Reisenweber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I heard Nokia needs a reboot to switch, and eats battery as if there's no > tomorrow on 3G ;-) > /j That's (partly) true. Nokias Symbian S60 and their S40 phones need to reboot - but that's only a software problem and I don't really know why they do that. If you have a 2G+3G modem you can talk hayes to, it is no problem to switch without powering off. Via AT-Commands (at+opsys) it's mostly possible to switch between 5 states: only 2g, only 3g, 2g preferred, 3g preferred, auto (depends on the modem) more or less on-the-fly. I guess they do that to bypass some problems that for example gsmd-users experienced :-) The battery problem is a bit odd, too - especially because technically umts takes less power - in use and even less in standby. It powers up on higher data rates what of course will take some power. So why is this? First I think it's because if the relatively bad 3G-coverage that causes a weaker signal. The other point is that GSM is a pretty old (for techies :) and more than just widely used and mature technique. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
News Flash! The US doesn't always make sense. I'm a United Statesian. I've lived around and worked with Europeans for years and I'm always agreeing that what we have doesn't seem sensible or doesn't appear thought out. It's very screwy. It just is. :-) On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Stroller writes: > > > >On 11 Jun 2008, at 15:44, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: > >> > >> Did you get a lower price on your contract than you would have with a > >> phone? Yes, they would have let me pay for a subsidized phone without > >> giving me the phone... > > > >Where the heck are you? > > > >To the British it is quite *obvious* that a contract without a phone > >is cheaper. > > US. To me, it's quite obvious that a contract without a phone > *should* be cheaper, but that's a long way from "is" (it actually > worked out for the best, since I've had a working phne all these > months as a result). > > >The most obvious example of this is that one can choose how much to > >pay up front - on can choose the phone "for free" with one set of > >tariffs, or pay £75 on purchase and get the same number of minutes > >for £10 a month less (on an 18-month contract, for example). One can > >also get much cheaper contracts when no phone purchase is involved. > > I haven't seen anything like that here. The plan costs what it costs; > you can pay varying amounts up front for different phones. > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Click Feedback?
On Wednesday 11 June 2008 19:08:48 Esben Stien wrote: > Michael 'Mickey' Lauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > If we were to get rid of it, we could ditch pulseaudio and go > > directly to alsa. > > You know you should go JACK right?. Going directly to alsa for such a > real time application is just bad, very bad. While JACK is pretty cool, it doesn't cut it on embedded systems since there is no hardware sound accelleration whatsoever. On a system like ours, JACK would just introduce latency, as in the end it goes over ALSA as well :M:. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Stroller writes: >> >>On 11 Jun 2008, at 15:44, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >>> >>> Did you get a lower price on your contract than you would have with a >>> phone? Yes, they would have let me pay for a subsidized phone without >>> giving me the phone... >> >>Where the heck are you? >> >>To the British it is quite *obvious* that a contract without a phone >>is cheaper. > > US. To me, it's quite obvious that a contract without a phone > *should* be cheaper, but that's a long way from "is" (it actually > worked out for the best, since I've had a working phne all these > months as a result). I'm an American and your statement confuses me. Why is it "obvious" that a contract without a phone should be cheaper? The service (cellular connectivity for voice and/or data) is the same service no matter what phone you have. In the US, the price of service contracts doesn't change. The price of PHONES does when you agree to commit to a service contract but the service contract doesn't. > >>The most obvious example of this is that one can choose how much to >>pay up front - on can choose the phone "for free" with one set of >>tariffs, or pay £75 on purchase and get the same number of minutes >>for £10 a month less (on an 18-month contract, for example). One can >>also get much cheaper contracts when no phone purchase is involved. > Not sure if you're confusing cause and effect here or if Brits just look at "cellular service" differently than Americans. You are implying that "the contract" is "the monthly service of voice/data connectivity and a handset". In the US, ONLY the monthly service of voice/data connectivity is contracted. It seems to me that what you're ACTUALLY doing when you make your purchase is purchasing a phone at some price, agreeing to a service level (monthly voice/data) and then financing the cost of that device through your monthly bill. By paying the £75 up front you're simply paying for the phone and NOT paying the cost of it in installments monthly. But from how I see it the service that is purchased (voice/data connectivity) remains the same price. > I haven't seen anything like that here. The plan costs what it costs; > you can pay varying amounts up front for different phones. > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko official resell partners
Harry Tsai wrote: > > UK > TrueBox Technologies - http://www.TrueBox.co.uk Mr. Rob wood £272 delivered to anywhere in the UK... http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-April/015080.html says it's $399, from the US presumably. At the current exchange rate that's £203... I think I can get it shipped across from the US for less than £70 Kyle ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Dual SIM?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Joerg Reisenweber escreveu: > > No. ;-) I thought so :) > > It's a pity, but the GSM-module won't support that - none will. And anything > less than true *concurrent* usage - like "electrical swappers" where you can > select which SIM to "boot" to, is just crap not worth designing for. Well we > could implement two modules XD . > Obvious case of "it's not that free as we would like it". Otherwise we could > have hacked the GSM-firmware. Can't be that hard, simple periodic context > switching. So, cells like the samsung d880 just swap electrically between the 2 SIM cards? The spec say you can use both cards at the same time but don't say exactly what "same time" means. []s Adilson. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIUDi32cB5Bt7H7YARAqW0AKCIzYgIfTtdgNkBLMlFE9zt7PFMygCg0Zmn 1QEx2kze+ljYAHDmIF20FW0= =NiMx -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Dual SIM?
The Freerunner has a single SIM slot. On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Adilson Oliveira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi. > > I'm quite sure the answer is "no" but as I didn't find any definitive > answer for that I decided to ask: does the openmoko hardware support 2 > SIM cards? > > []s > > Adilson. > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFIUBYZ2cB5Bt7H7YARAranAJ42l1mQeDd8z/HlYC9bcqTptAI1UgCgoJZC > XRsqcU6XHall3sYaq42jgcs= > =tW0/ > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 camera + any chance to add SD card?
Ron K. Jeffries wrote: > Is adding an SD card externally accessible on GTA03 feasible? +1 Having the SD card buried under the SIM under the battery is less than ideal. -if ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GTA03 camera + any chance to add SD card?
I hope the camera on GTA03 will be ~3 megapixels and have a decent (glass) lens. I don't know what the COGS impact of the better camera will be but Freerunner is NOT a bargain basement phone. If the better specs on camera add $50 vs say $10 for a 1.3 megapixel with plastic POS lens, I for one am all in. FYI I use the (inadequate!) phone on my Treo 700p fairly often. I have other, better cameras, but my mobile phone is always in my pocket. new topic: Given the evolution not revolution goal for GTA03... Is adding an SD card externally accessible on GTA03 feasible? Lots of goodness associated with adding SD card slot. but it may be too much effort and risk for this "refresh" product cycle. I understand that GTA03 really needs to be a quick turn, so the team can then invest in a new Freerunner product with a serious bump in computing power (for openers). I am NOT in the camp that predicts a 12 month cycle to get GTA03 out, as that would be a plan to fail. Give the experience learned with GAT01/GTA02 I predict OpenMoko can ship GTA03 no later than Christmas, 2008 Ron K. Jeffries http://www.retaggr.com/Card/RonKJeffries ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Dual SIM?
Nope :p On 6/11/08, Adilson Oliveira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi. > > I'm quite sure the answer is "no" but as I didn't find any definitive > answer for that I decided to ask: does the openmoko hardware support 2 > SIM cards? > > []s > > Adilson. > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFIUBYZ2cB5Bt7H7YARAranAJ42l1mQeDd8z/HlYC9bcqTptAI1UgCgoJZC > XRsqcU6XHall3sYaq42jgcs= > =tW0/ > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -- Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wireless providers in the US
ian douglas wrote: > ... but not at AT&T plans are available coast-to-coast. at = all Lack of sleep = typos. My bad. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Dual SIM?
Am Mi 11. Juni 2008 schrieb Adilson Oliveira: > Hi. > > I'm quite sure the answer is "no" but as I didn't find any definitive > answer for that I decided to ask: does the openmoko hardware support 2 > SIM cards? No. ;-) It's a pity, but the GSM-module won't support that - none will. And anything less than true *concurrent* usage - like "electrical swappers" where you can select which SIM to "boot" to, is just crap not worth designing for. Well we could implement two modules XD . Obvious case of "it's not that free as we would like it". Otherwise we could have hacked the GSM-firmware. Can't be that hard, simple periodic context switching. /jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re:Dual SIM?
Adilson Oliveira writes: > >I'm quite sure the answer is "no" but as I didn't find any definitive >answer for that I decided to ask: does the openmoko hardware support 2 >SIM cards? Not at the same time. Only one holder. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AW: Openmoko official resell partners
Am 11.06.2008 um 19:48 schrieb Adilson Oliveira: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Dr.H.Nikolaus Schaller escreveu: > >> 6. we can ship worldwide, although that might not be reasonable for >> you (quite high shipment cost and we have only the GTA02 EU version) >> > > I wasn't aware that there are different versions depending on your > location. Is the difference just the GSM frequency (850 vs 900MHz)? There are two different versions: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware (go to the bootom line "Certification"). 850/1800/1900 Band 900/1800/1900 Band Both operate worldwide but each one is more flexible in its main location since networks service only two out of the four frequencies. We have choosen to have only the EU version in our shop. BR, Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Font type and size was (QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03)
Thanks Dale, as David says it's this simply test makes the things very clear, whit bold there's is no way but as I said before this font on the freerunner can be used to previews, icons and a way to have various text files opens at time and intuit of what's about and then to work use the second one. --- El mié, 11/6/08, David Pottage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: > De: David Pottage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Asunto: Re: Font type and size was (QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03) > Para: "List for Openmoko community discussion" > Fecha: miércoles, 11 junio, 2008 10:18 > On Wed, June 11, 2008 2:59 am, Dale Schumacher wrote: > > If your current display is around 150dpi, you can see > what QVGA would be > > like with something like this: > > > > xterm -fn '*-clean-*--6-*-c-40*' & > > > > This will give you a terminal window with a 4x6 font > cell (3x5 for > > characters + 1px spacing). Note that the automatic > "smear bold" make this > > font unreadable, but the non-bold works. > > > > However, I would much prefer to use a larger font on a > VGA-size display > > with 285dpi, like this: > > > > xterm -fn '*-clean-med*--16-*-c-80-*' -fb > '*-clean-bold*--16-*-c-80-*' & > > Thank you for that. You have added some useful light to the > discussion on > graphics resolution compared with all the heat. It is a > simple test that > anyone running Linux, or most other X servers (even cygwin) > can run. > > Having tried the test myself I would say the difference is > like night and > day. At QVGA you can just about log into your box to reboot > your web > server if you need to, but the whole experence is quite > painfull. At full > VGA you can examine log files and the like and actualy > figure out the root > cause of any problems and fix them. > > This is the difference between windows sysadmins (reboot at > the first sign > of trouble), and unix sysadmins who actually find and fix > the root cause. > > For myself I already have a QVGA Nokia phone with PuTTy, so > I can log in > remotely in an emergency, but VGA is so nice that with a > Freerunner I > probably would log in in other situations as well. > > -- > David Pottage > > Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function. > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community __ Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada más inteligente. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: comparing Apples and Oranges $199 iPhone Freerunner GTA02
> Even the animations are not gratuitous waste of CPU : it helps the user > to understand what's happening. For instance, in the mobileMe video > presentation the user uploads a picture of a contact and then the > picture appears to flow right into the picture box of the contact detail > - this is not merely done to catch the eyes but also to help the user > understand the relations between widgets. point taken. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
Stroller writes: > >On 11 Jun 2008, at 15:44, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >> >> Did you get a lower price on your contract than you would have with a >> phone? Yes, they would have let me pay for a subsidized phone without >> giving me the phone... > >Where the heck are you? > >To the British it is quite *obvious* that a contract without a phone >is cheaper. US. To me, it's quite obvious that a contract without a phone *should* be cheaper, but that's a long way from "is" (it actually worked out for the best, since I've had a working phne all these months as a result). >The most obvious example of this is that one can choose how much to >pay up front - on can choose the phone "for free" with one set of >tariffs, or pay £75 on purchase and get the same number of minutes >for £10 a month less (on an 18-month contract, for example). One can >also get much cheaper contracts when no phone purchase is involved. I haven't seen anything like that here. The plan costs what it costs; you can pay varying amounts up front for different phones. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wireless providers in the US
Kevin Dean wrote: > T-Mobile and AT&T both offer > nationwide plans and the plans are the same coast to coast. ... but not at AT&T plans are available coast-to-coast. I was looking at plans last night for someone on the list who lives in New Mexico, and there were fewer voice/data plans available than there were in the Los Angeles area. >> as a web browser when I am on the road, for calendar and such, >> for texting. I am interested in GPS features as well. > > A Freerunner would work well for all of those, and with the GPS being > tacked on, I'm not sure I can think of many devices that would combine > all of those features. My Samsung Blackjack 2 has been doing all this since December 2007. Of course, I sync everything through plaxo.com as the Blackjack 2 doesn't have MS-Exchange sync'ing capabilities built in. (It'll sync Email through AT&T's XpressMail service though) I'll much prefer the Freerunner over my Samsung once the software is solid, as having a true-multitasking environment will be a giant leap forward for how I stay connected. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wireless providers in the US
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Could those of you in the US, who have the prior phone,and who plan to get | the new one, share what providers you are using? Also, any details would | be great. I am going to be leaving Sprint, and ditching my Treo 650 for | the new phone. It is very exciting, but I am a little lost as to what all | my options are. It is further complicated by the way in the US everyone | seems to offer regionally based plans, rather than having the same plans | available throughout the country. I am in the D.C. area. | | Thanks | | P.S. My intended uses are as a phone, as a modem or tethering device for | my laptop, as a web browser when I am on the road, for calendar and such, | for texting. I am interested in GPS features as well. | | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers#United_States I use tMobile, and it works great. The service is OK, but the people are great, one of the cheapest in the US. - -bk -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIUCbwWSn2Kv7ZyAoRAtuIAJkBzt9mNJnD6ucicZuVdjAsf8sOZQCfTuHo RaThsJbyrloWIjBhOI9t/wA= =kBTQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price
Ben Burdette wrote: > Also, I hear that AT&T is charging 10$ more per month for iphones over > their normal plan fees, and even more if you are a business user. They raised the rate in general, even without picking a phone at attwireless.com, you can still see the basic "unlimited data with limited SMS" option is $30/month. And yeah, they're charging business users $45/month for the same "unlimited" data plan, because it will include sync'ing to MS Exchange (like the Blackberry PDA's do), and the 50% premium is simply due to the fact that the 'push' technology will use more bandwidth. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wireless providers in the US
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Could those of you in the US, who have the prior phone,and who plan to get > the new one, share what providers you are using? I had a Neo (GTA01) and it worked fine on TMobile and AT&T, but only in areas where the higher frequency bands were available -- I couldn't get either SIM to work where only the 850MHz band was getting through, obviously, because the Neo didn't do 850MHz. AT&T and TMobile also work just fine on the Freerunner -- I have the 850Mhz-capable model. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
Joe Pfeiffer wrote: > ian douglas writes: >> TMobile did this for me in about 15 minutes at one of their stores, and >> I didn't even have my Neo with me at the time. I simply told them I had >> an unlocked international GSM-capable phone and I just needed a SIM card >> for it. > > Did you get a lower price on your contract than you would have with a > phone? Yes, they would have let me pay for a subsidized phone without > giving me the phone... It was a pay-as-you-go SIM card, no contract required. Minutes are good for a year 9though I used up almost the entire block of 1,000 minutes doing "talk time tests" last month on the Freerunner. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price
Shawn wrote: > say I buy a freerunner, but decide to switch to AT&T as my provider (as > I plan to do in the near future), will they not hit me with a contract > agreement anyway? It varies, depending on who you talk to. They typically need to lock you into a 2-year contract if they're subsidizing a phone. Since the Freerunner isn't subsidized by them, they should give you the same rate, but not lock you into a two-year agreement. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Dual SIM?
"No" ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wireless providers in the US
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 1:03 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Could those of you in the US, who have the prior phone,and who plan to get > the new one, share what providers you are using? T-Mobile. Been with them 5 or 6 years and zero complaints. > Also, any details would > be great. I am going to be leaving Sprint, and ditching my Treo 650 for > the new phone. Dropped Motorola RAZRs for a Neo 1973 and Neo Freerunner. > It is very exciting, but I am a little lost as to what all > my options are. I'm assuming for a moment you're planning on purchasing an Openmoko phone since that's what this list is about. Any cellular carrier that uses GSM works with the Freerunner and 1973. This pretty much means anything BUT Sprint or Verizon (and Verizon will be transitioning to GSM in 2009 in the metro DC area, from what I've heard). Assuming the mobile companies don't restrict phones they're not familiar with, every contract plan or prepaid plan should work. > It is further complicated by the way in the US everyone > seems to offer regionally based plans, rather than having the same plans > available throughout the country. I have to say I disagree unless you're interested only in a small, local based provider which Sprint is NOT. T-Mobile and AT&T both offer nationwide plans and the plans are the same coast to coast. > I am in the D.C. area. A friend of mine lives in northwest and T-Mobile doesn't work well for her (though Verizon is starting to fail in her building too). I get excellent service in Frederick, Alexandria, Gaithersburg, Reston, Herndon, Sterling. Come to think of it... Other than being in like the Baltimore tunnel, I don't think I've ever NOT had service and I drove out to Jersey a few months ago to buy my car. > > Thanks > > P.S. My intended uses are as a phone, as a modem or tethering device for > my laptop, I support Openmoko but let me give my realistic opinion - the decision to use 2G and include wifi isn't the best for Americans in metro areas. From what I gather, data over cellular is still pretty expensive in Europe so the inclusion of Wifi benefits the most people there. In the USA where unlimited data plans are quite affordable, where people commute signifigantly longer distances and cellular coverage is more reliable and more readily available than wifi coverage lack of 3G sucks really REALLY badly. If you're tethering for cellular data connection, a Freerunner will disappoint you. The fact that there's not a cellular connection fast enough to support streaming audio on my daily commute is serious enough that I questioned if I'd pay money for a Freerunner. > as a web browser when I am on the road, for calendar and such, > for texting. I am interested in GPS features as well. A Freerunner would work well for all of those, and with the GPS being tacked on, I'm not sure I can think of many devices that would combine all of those features. > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Dual SIM?
"no" Not directly at least, it should be possible however to connect another phone that has bluetooth up to it, and allow it to act in nearly the same way. HTH, Federico On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Adilson Oliveira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi. > > I'm quite sure the answer is "no" but as I didn't find any definitive > answer for that I decided to ask: does the openmoko hardware support 2 > SIM cards? > > []s > > Adilson. > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFIUBYZ2cB5Bt7H7YARAranAJ42l1mQeDd8z/HlYC9bcqTptAI1UgCgoJZC > XRsqcU6XHall3sYaq42jgcs= > =tW0/ > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Dual SIM?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi. I'm quite sure the answer is "no" but as I didn't find any definitive answer for that I decided to ask: does the openmoko hardware support 2 SIM cards? []s Adilson. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIUBYZ2cB5Bt7H7YARAranAJ42l1mQeDd8z/HlYC9bcqTptAI1UgCgoJZC XRsqcU6XHall3sYaq42jgcs= =tW0/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03: New case? Bigger screen!
I want a phone, not a tablet. -1. Ilja O. pravi: me wants it too ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: comparing Apples and Oranges $199 iPhone Freerunner GTA02
On 11 Jun 2008, at 09:34, cedric cellier wrote: > ... > Anyway, I wouldn't call a way to easily share content like mails, > contacts, calendar events, and even files, a "step backward". At the > contrary, this is one of the biggest trouble for me with FOSS. > Think about what a pain it would be to install and maintain a > Kolab server (for instance) accessible from openmoko and some desktop > linux, with good performance and ease of use. Now look how simple > MobileMe is. It would (surely?) be equally simply to rent an account on a shared Kolab server, but this is the difference between the iPone & Linux markets. Mac users have for years been paying for the (dreadful) dot- Mac service and think nothing of it, whereas a geek will not see the need to spend money on something he can install on his existing file- server. Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price
On 11 Jun 2008, at 13:55, Shawn wrote: > My question is this: > say I buy a freerunner, but decide to switch to AT&T as my provider > (as I plan to do in the near future), will they not hit me with a > contract agreement anyway? Isn't that how you get the cheapest > minute/plans? They may do it differently in the US (woah! Europe's market regulation might be good for the consumer!?!?!) but here in the UK the contract agreement is cheaper if you bring your own phone. Sure, a contract gets you the cheapest minute/plans (as long as you use them), but there's "cheapest" and cheapest. Here in the UK millions of people have old mobile phones they've already paid for, or on which the contract has already expired. Sure, they may go with O2 or Vodafone for their next contract because they get a "free" iPhone, but those existing unlocked phones don't get chucked in the landfill. So I go to Vodafone and say "I've got this old phone that my brother's throwing away, and I'd like a contract please"; if Vodafone only offer me a contract which includes a replacement phone then that new phone has to be paid for somehow in the terms of the contract; if I go to O2 instead and they say "ok, you don't want a new phone" then obviously they can make the contract cheaper. I am staggered this seems to be so difficult, and I'm not sure whether it's that the carriers make it so difficult in some parts of the world, or simply that the concept is so difficult to some people. Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sillyness: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price
Kalle Happonen wrote: > Michael Kluge wrote: > >>> 7. Apple currently defines the PDA/mobile marketplace. >>> >>> >> No, the smartphone market is dominated by the Blackberry. >> >> > Dominate and define are different things. Blackberry might dominate > (only in US though), but now Apple has the new cool thing, and every > manufacturer from Samsung to Nokia make releases of similar models at > the same time. So Apple does define the smartphone market for a given > cusomer segment. > Yes, I was talking about the *I use it for my business* market in the US. Correct. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
On 11 Jun 2008, at 15:44, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: > ian douglas writes: >> Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >>> when I went to get a sim card to use in my moko, I was >>> unable to find one without getting a subsidized phone to go with it. >> >> TMobile did this for me in about 15 minutes at one of their >> stores, and >> I didn't even have my Neo with me at the time. I simply told them >> I had >> an unlocked international GSM-capable phone and I just needed a >> SIM card >> for it. > > Did you get a lower price on your contract than you would have with a > phone? Yes, they would have let me pay for a subsidized phone without > giving me the phone... Where the heck are you? To the British it is quite *obvious* that a contract without a phone is cheaper. The most obvious example of this is that one can choose how much to pay up front - on can choose the phone "for free" with one set of tariffs, or pay £75 on purchase and get the same number of minutes for £10 a month less (on an 18-month contract, for example). One can also get much cheaper contracts when no phone purchase is involved. Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AW: Openmoko official resell partners
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dr.H.Nikolaus Schaller escreveu: > 6. we can ship worldwide, although that might not be reasonable for > you (quite high shipment cost and we have only the GTA02 EU version) > I wasn't aware that there are different versions depending on your location. Is the difference just the GSM frequency (850 vs 900MHz)? []s Adilson. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD4DBQFIUA/62cB5Bt7H7YARAnBeAKDPtOT8BKAPFl2vVRbjL61Fh5li7ACYwmyO mwEBtDmBzhauAl9egcvDwQ== =guGU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 You are totally right.At T-Mobile Germany you can reserve an iPhone 3G. You can only get it with an contract thant is far more expensive than comparable contracts of T-Mobile Germany. The "cheapest" (24 month-) contract Complete S is 5 € more expensive than a comparable one. With this contract the price for the iPhone 3G with 8GB is249€. So, now let's calculate: 5€ /month * 24 = 120 € 120+249 = 369 € = 574$ And this is not completle correct, cause in germany nearly every phone is subsidized. For my new contract without phone you can get between 150 € (233$) and 400 € (622$) at resellers. For a small contract like the one I used at the top it is around 200 €. so we are around 569€ (884 $). I think this is everything but cheap. Of course be careful with this calculation. But for a tendence is can be used. And yet a little hint: the 16GB one will cost 499€ (776$) with contract (even with the expensive ones which go up to 90€(140$)/month). I don't want to calculate the price of the iPhone, i just want to explain, that it does NOT cost 299$. Greetings Bastian Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) schrieb: | On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:16:40 + "Jorge ." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled: | |> Robert Taylor wrote: |>> On the new Iphones, you HAVETO get a 2 year contract. |>> If you decide to quit you will pay a fee that will total up greater than |>> the $600 the phone is worth. |> The first iPhone was released june 29/2007 and the first hacked that allow |> you to use it with any operator was announced on july 9/2007. It will happen |> again and unlocked iPhones 3G will be available, it does not matter if the |> first bunch are stolen, second hand or refurbished, it short time everyone |> will be able to buy an iPhone 3G without contract for almost the same price |> than it contract. Then we will be able to compare unsubsidized iphones with |> moko. until that moment lets end the flame :-) but if I am right the iPhone |> will be cheaper even unsubsidized. (although i would buy a moko anyway) | | not so simple. i think he business plan is changing because before this | happened with the 1st iphone. people could buy without contract. it was assumed | that the phone lock would force people to get a contract anyway and apple bore | the risk by losing out on their cut of the carrier's revenue (at&t). so they | sold it at $399 or $499 etc. and din't get any money from at&t after that. | | now it changes with the 3g iphone. you must sign up when you buy. sure - you | can now take that phone, unlock it, re-sell it, but you are stuck with a | contract you must keep paying for... with no phone to use on that contract | unless you buy another phone - outright. there will be contract termination | clauses if you want to cancel then and this will help cover the subsidy - of | not completely cover it and then some. | | sure - some (a very few) phones will somehow be smuggled from the factory or | from shipments before they get to an apple or at&t or other carrier store, and | some may be sold "under the counter" without contract - but i guarantee that | that likely is a business losing proposition for anyone as they get a rebate | once they sign you on a contract. selling without a contract will mean hey have | to jack up the price to cover the lost rebate money. | | as such - legal, legitimate and easy to get 3g iphones WITHOUT contract are | going to be much more than $199. | |>>> furthermore the freedom, there is a war for the smartphones market and a |>>> freephone have to be competitive in price, not only in quality and |>>> philosophy. | This is only true if you do what you are insisting on doing, comparing |>> things that are not of equal value. While it is fine for consumers to |>> be ignorant of these facts and actually think your argument is valid, |>> it's not correct on this thread as you are clearly educated and |>> understand the reality of the situation. |> |> not equal value? Moko, iPhone, iRiver, Blackberry... we are talking about |> smartphones, and money is money. If you buy an orange, and apple or a pinable |> you pay with money!! every fruit have advantages and disadvantages, but you |> pay anyway |> |> _ |> Do more with your photos with Windows Live Photo Gallery. |> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_photos_022008 |> ___ |> Openmoko community mailing list |> community@lists.openmoko.org |> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIUAzUlYiDScJJ+7QRAgAQAKDdPmh7mEozFztWzV/gQPGp+ab3SACghrp4 IgwHYZhD6aY4VOxlWfBRXkI= =+AlJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.o
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
AT&T in the US does offer SIMs without a phone. However, you have to go into a Corporate store. The resellers generally won't or can't do this. I do not know, however, if they offer SIMs with contracts. To my knowledge, they only do this with "pay as you go" SIMs. On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:41 PM, ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Joe Pfeiffer wrote: > > when I went to get a sim card to use in my moko, I was > > unable to find one without getting a subsidized phone to go with it. > > TMobile did this for me in about 15 minutes at one of their stores, and > I didn't even have my Neo with me at the time. I simply told them I had > an unlocked international GSM-capable phone and I just needed a SIM card > for it. > > I'm sure AT&T would do the same if you simply walk into the store and > tell them you want to purchase a SIM card for an unlocked phone you > already own, and that you just want the SIM card. > > -id > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price
Your calculations may well be correct for the awful situation in the USA. In other parts of the world, this is drastically different! Please keep that in mind. Ortwin On 6/11/08, ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Robert Taylor wrote: >> Just compare equal things. > > We'll have to agree to disagree on the definition of "equal". > > Hear me out: > > By my calculations below, a consumer buying an iPhone or a Freerunner, > and using AT&T for a voice/data plan, is going to spend about $2600 over > two years no matter which phone they buy. > > Jorge's original posting in this thread said the following: > > the new iPhone 3G price was announced, and the 8 Gigas version will > > cost only $199 USD > and > > now the FreeRunner is less competitive than the iPhone in terms > > of price. > > He was asking about straight out-of-pocket expense, not about subsidies. > The end consumer is only going to see the price tag on the phone itself. > > The consumer will look at the iPhone and see a price of $199. > Then they'll look at the Freerunner and see a price tag of $399. > > If they choose the $199 iPhone, they get locked into a two year > contract, likely paying $100 per month for a voice/data plan. Over 24 > months, their total cost is going to be about $2600. > > If they choose the $399 Freerunner, they aren't locked into a minimum 2 > year contract, but they'll still need monthly service for the same > 24-month period. As I mentioned in a previous message, a plain > voice/data plan with AT&T is still going to cost $90 or more depending > on the plan you pick. After 24 months, they've still paid $2600. > > That looks pretty 'equal' to me, and *I* believe the average consumer > will feel the same way. If you don't agree with that, then you and I > simply don't agree on it, but that still doesn't warrant calling > someone's communication "nonsense" simply because you don't agree with them. > > The Freerunner would perhaps be cheaper if the consumer buys "pay as you > go" minutes/data instead of a monthly plan. > The Freerunner would *definitely* be cheaper if they buy the iPhone and > start buying applications through iTunes for their phone. > >> If you want to compare the total cost, compare the total cost of buying >> the new iphone UNLOCKED at retail cost (you can't) plus the data package >> and THEN we can talk. > > But the consumer isn't asked to pay the full unlocked price of the > iPhone. Just because AT&T subsidizes the phone by lessening the profit > they make on the $100/month you'll pay them for using their service, the > consumer isn't paying "more" for the phone since they'd still have to > pay for the same voice/data service to use a Freerunner. It just means > AT&T makes more profit on the voice/data plan because they haven't > subsidized anything. > > And you still haven't followed up with how you calculated the iPhone to > cost 'twice' as much as the Freerunner. > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Wireless providers in the US
Could those of you in the US, who have the prior phone,and who plan to get the new one, share what providers you are using? Also, any details would be great. I am going to be leaving Sprint, and ditching my Treo 650 for the new phone. It is very exciting, but I am a little lost as to what all my options are. It is further complicated by the way in the US everyone seems to offer regionally based plans, rather than having the same plans available throughout the country. I am in the D.C. area. Thanks P.S. My intended uses are as a phone, as a modem or tethering device for my laptop, as a web browser when I am on the road, for calendar and such, for texting. I am interested in GPS features as well. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
The local t-mobile store occasionally has a no extra charge (free I suppose) quad band world phone from Motorola. I was thinking of getting that as a spare. On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:44 AM, Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ian douglas writes: > >Joe Pfeiffer wrote: > >> when I went to get a sim card to use in my moko, I was > >> unable to find one without getting a subsidized phone to go with it. > > > >TMobile did this for me in about 15 minutes at one of their stores, and > >I didn't even have my Neo with me at the time. I simply told them I had > >an unlocked international GSM-capable phone and I just needed a SIM card > >for it. > > Did you get a lower price on your contract than you would have with a > phone? Yes, they would have let me pay for a subsidized phone without > giving me the phone... > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price
I plan on using my phone in VOIP mode as often as possible. Since I use my phone most often at home, I'm hoping I'll be able to use far fewer minutes per month than normal. That's when the pay-as-you-go SIM plan starts to really pay off - I don't have to pay for an artificial minimum of minutes that I won't use. When I run out of minutes, I just buy more. If I only talk on VOIP during the month, that's zero cost. Also, I hear that AT&T is charging 10$ more per month for iphones over their normal plan fees, and even more if you are a business user. So for a two year contract thats 240$. And if you stay with AT&T after that, you keep paying that same premium on into the future too. If you're like me and you keep your smartphones for 4+ years, then that would be more like 480$ over the 199 initial outlay. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AW: Openmoko official resell partners
Hi all, to clarify some questions you may have: 1. we work closely together with Trisoft so you will get your Freerunner at approx. the same time (1-2 days) independently of where you place(d) your order 2. the direct link is http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Neo%20Freerunner (the server appears to be a little slow currently) 3. we currently do not take final orders but you can queue up by placing a "Request", but you have not yet to pay 4. we accept major credit cards and IBAN bank transfer. If you have an EU VAT registration number we can deduce the German VAT if you provide correct details. 5. Requests will be processed on first come first served base as soon as we have devices to ship. We will send you a mail when to pay and complete the order. 6. we can ship worldwide, although that might not be reasonable for you (quite high shipment cost and we have only the GTA02 EU version) Nikolaus Schaller (the one who fights to keep VGA!) Golden Delicious Computers GmbH&Co. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching +49-89-54290367 http://www.goldelico.com AG München, HRA 89571 VAT DE253626266 Komplementär: Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller Digital Tools for Independent People Am 11.06.2008 um 14:44 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > Is trisoft.de not an official reseller? Which reseller will > receive the first phones? > > thx. > > Ursprüngliche Nachricht > Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Datum: 11.06.2008 11:43 > An: "List for Openmoko community discussion" > > Betreff: Openmoko official resell partners > > Dear Community, > You should already know Pulster and IDA, they are our official > reseller > in the Germany and India. > Today, I want to introduce new partners in Germany and UK, you can > buy > freerunner from them for save your shipping cost and time. > We also have a formal press will release to public later. > > Germany > Golden Delicious Computers- _http://www.goldelico.com _Dr.Nikolaus > Schaller > > UK > TrueBox Technologies - http://www.TrueBox.co.uk Mr. Rob wood > > Besides, I am talking with CEO of Bearstech France about > cooperation, so > far they are very closely to become my next official partner. > > BR > > Harry > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 9:04 AM, Ken Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 07:57:13AM +0800, Carsten Haitzler wrote: >> the day the design mockups for the ui i see stop having alpha >> transparency is the day i make this unimportant. until that day, >> your "i don't care about this" is the kind of opinion that i also am >> not interested in, because i am being shown ui designs hat REQUIRE >> it in the long run between windows, and in the short term is being >> faked with software within windows. i am just trying to make >> something possible that is being requested, and has been for a long >> time. not just say "i don't care". > > The problem isn't that transparency effects, and other CPU/GPU intensitve > UI enhancements, are unimportant. On a handheld device they *are* > important.They make the device worse.It is important to resist > the push to add eye-candy to a handheld device, because every CPU/GPU > cycle spent animating an icon, or making a window translucent, eats > some of the energy stored in your battery, and reduces the amount of > useful work which can be done between recharges. I disagree with such categorical statements. There is a trade-off between usability and performance (e.g. user performance and device performance). The optimal value is in between, dependent on both user and system capabilities. The iPhone is success *because* of its heavy bias for user performance over system performance. The hardware isn't novel, but the UI is, and it makes all the difference. Example: Shadows on windows on Mac OS X --- the shadows indicate, better than any titlebar hilight ever will, what window has focus. Using the brain's innate understanding of depth provides user-side hardware acceleration for this activity. Example: Desktop switcher animation --- when switching virtual desktops, having the windows slide off to the appropriate side is critical for building a spatial model in the user's mind. http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/finder.ars/2 Geeks will probably want a different set of trade-offs between usability & performance, but those are best done as customizations on an expert platform. One that we hope that OM will become. -- H. Lally Singh Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science Virginia Tech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AW: Openmoko official resell partners
The speed is depends on courier and custom process, we will announce shipping date at right timing soon. Harry [EMAIL PROTECTED] 提到: > Is trisoft.de not an official reseller? Which reseller will receive the > first phones? > > thx. > > Ursprüngliche Nachricht > Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Datum: 11.06.2008 11:43 > An: "List for Openmoko community discussion" > Betreff: Openmoko official resell partners > > Dear Community, > You should already know Pulster and IDA, they are our official reseller > in the Germany and India. > Today, I want to introduce new partners in Germany and UK, you can buy > freerunner from them for save your shipping cost and time. > We also have a formal press will release to public later. > > Germany > Golden Delicious Computers- _http://www.goldelico.com _Dr.Nikolaus Schaller > > UK > TrueBox Technologies - http://www.TrueBox.co.uk Mr. Rob wood > > Besides, I am talking with CEO of Bearstech France about cooperation, so > far they are very closely to become my next official partner. > > BR > > Harry > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko official resell partners
Michael, TRIsoft will work with Golden Delicious Computers as partnership, I do believe you also can buy freerunner from TRIsoft webshop. So, Openmoko with TRisoft is indirect cooperation, I know TRIsoft Mac and Robert very well, they also are good friends for me and openmoko. BR Harry Michael Kluge ??: Hi Harry, no TRIsoft in Germany? Michael Am Mittwoch, 11. Juni 2008 11:43:59 schrieb Harry Tsai: Dear Community, You should already know Pulster and IDA, they are our official reseller in the Germany and India. Today, I want to introduce new partners in Germany and UK, you can buy freerunner from them for save your shipping cost and time. We also have a formal press will release to public later. Germany Golden Delicious Computers- _http://www.goldelico.com _Dr.Nikolaus Schaller UK TrueBox Technologies - http://www.TrueBox.co.uk Mr. Rob wood Besides, I am talking with CEO of Bearstech France about cooperation, so far they are very closely to become my next official partner. BR Harry ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Click Feedback?
Michael 'Mickey' Lauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > If we were to get rid of it, we could ditch pulseaudio and go > directly to alsa. You know you should go JACK right?. Going directly to alsa for such a real time application is just bad, very bad. -- Esben Stien is [EMAIL PROTECTED] s a http://www. s tn m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@n n ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: comparing Apples and Oranges $199 iPhone Freerunner GTA02
On Wednesday 11 June 2008 13:24, cedric cellier wrote: > -[ Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 11:47:56AM +0100, Andy Powell ] > > > I'm sorry but you're wrong. While it might eat a little cpu, it's not > > much. Most of the work is actually done by the graphics card > > Which is just another CPU which also need power. We are speacking > about embeded devices here. > No, you were saying compiz uses your cpu - we weren't talking about embedded devices at all at that stage. > > > [compiz] > > all these things allow you to manage your workspace better. > > And better yet for productivity, at least for a developper : do not use > any "workspace" that require management. :-) Sorry, but that just doesn't make sense at all. If I'm doing web development I'll open multiple windows, a browser a couple of shells, if I'm doing c work I'll have a couple of shells, possibly glade running... these are all tools of the trade and compiz allows good clean management of those windows which can be spread over however many faces on your 'cube' you decide to have. Maybe your laptop has a high res 24" screen where you can position each window in free space, mine doesn't. -- Andy / ScaredyCat pgp6ZD7L2YQl5.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AW: Openmoko official resell partners
Hi all, to clarify some questions you may have: 1. we work closely together with Trisoft so you will get your Freerunner at approx. the same time (1-2 days) independently of where you place(d) your order 2. the direct link is http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Neo%20Freerunner (the server appears to be a little slow currently) 3. we currently do not take final orders but you can queue up by placing a "Request", but you have not yet to pay 4. we accept major credit cards and IBAN bank transfer. If you have an EU VAT registration number we can deduce the German VAT if you provide correct details. 5. Requests will be processed on first come first served base as soon as we have devices to ship. We will send you a mail when to pay and complete the order. 6. we can ship worldwide, although that might not be reasonable for you (quite high shipment cost and we have only the GTA02 EU version) Nikolaus Schaller (the one who fights to keep VGA!) Golden Delicious Computers GmbH&Co. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching +49-89-54290367 http://www.goldelico.com AG München, HRA 89571 VAT DE253626266 Komplementär: Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller Digital Tools for Independent People Am 11.06.2008 um 14:44 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > Is trisoft.de not an official reseller? Which reseller will > receive the first phones? > > thx. > > Ursprüngliche Nachricht > Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Datum: 11.06.2008 11:43 > An: "List for Openmoko community discussion" > > Betreff: Openmoko official resell partners > > Dear Community, > You should already know Pulster and IDA, they are our official > reseller > in the Germany and India. > Today, I want to introduce new partners in Germany and UK, you can > buy > freerunner from them for save your shipping cost and time. > We also have a formal press will release to public later. > > Germany > Golden Delicious Computers- _http://www.goldelico.com _Dr.Nikolaus > Schaller > > UK > TrueBox Technologies - http://www.TrueBox.co.uk Mr. Rob wood > > Besides, I am talking with CEO of Bearstech France about > cooperation, so > far they are very closely to become my next official partner. > > BR > > Harry > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re:SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
ian douglas writes: >Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >> when I went to get a sim card to use in my moko, I was >> unable to find one without getting a subsidized phone to go with it. > >TMobile did this for me in about 15 minutes at one of their stores, and >I didn't even have my Neo with me at the time. I simply told them I had >an unlocked international GSM-capable phone and I just needed a SIM card >for it. Did you get a lower price on your contract than you would have with a phone? Yes, they would have let me pay for a subsidized phone without giving me the phone... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)
Who are these weird people that think window transparency on an underpowered phone is a good idea?! What functionality does THAT give us? I'd like to see some justification, if not from you then from whoever is responsible for these ideas. I've lived without window transparancy on all my PCs and handhelds up to now. I've seen it on my brother's Vista PC and it was kind of funny for all of five minutes. Ortwin On 6/11/08, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 01:07:40 +0200 Joerg Reisenweber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > babbled: > >> Am Di 10. Juni 2008 schrieb Carsten Haitzler: >> > On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:16:06 +0800 "Wilkinson, Alex" >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled: >> > >> > > 0n Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 01:43:08PM +0800, Carsten Haitzler wrote: >> > > >> > > >we are in a world where to get gfx support to run such high >> resolutions >> > > >means we need to have closed drivers. and that is not >> > > >> > > Curious, why is that ? >> > >> > graphics is the most intensive thing your device is likely to do in >> > terms of >> > processing. if you want soft drop shadows, alpha blending (and trust me >> > - >> > everyone is drooling for it out there - the iphone is doing it already) >> > the >> >> No, I won't trust you here! I give a SH*T on soft shadows, even on my >> desktop. I switch off animation because I think it's annoying waste of >> time >> to see "the same movie" over and over. Alpha blending? Eeew! Useless. > > the day the design mockups for the ui i see stop having alpha transparency > is > the day i make this unimportant. until that day, your "i don't care about > this" > is the kind of opinion that i also am not interested in, because i am being > shown ui designs hat REQUIRE it in the long run between windows, and in the > short term is being faked with software within windows. i am just trying to > make something possible that is being requested, and has been for a long > time. > not just say "i don't care". > >> Every single argument been mentioned multiple times here. Redundance. >> GTA03 has VGA - period! > > things can change - unlikely to be, but can. i have said it many times > already. > >> 04 even better i'd bet on it. 05 virtually no-one even thinking of now, >> not >> to mention sourceability of parts when it's coming to real. >> >> And now I'm definitely stopping to feed this tro.. er, thread, which btw >> seems nobody is looking on the weird subject any more :-/ >> ETX >> jOERG >> > > > -- > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 10:56 AM, robert lazarski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Shawn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> My question is this: >> say I buy a freerunner, but decide to switch to AT&T as my provider (as I >> plan to do in the near future), will they not hit me with a contract >> agreement anyway? Isn't that how you get the cheapest minute/plans? If thats >> the case, then yeah, it looks like the iPhone is cheaper for my situation. >> If you already have a mobile plan and do not intend to switch, then the >> freerunner is the way to go. . . >> >> just my 2 cents. > > Depends on the country and even more on personal preference. I > personally have never used a cell phone via a contract - I buy > pre-paid minutes, because I know what I'm spending that way. Plus the > contract terms are comparable to an EULA - scary stuff to this > individual. > > In fact, in Brazil where I live its illegal to sell a blocked phone - > in no small part because those predatory telephone companies do > curious things on their bills and limit their services. I think > perhaps the USA is the odd ball in their "locked" way of doing > business, so ymmv. Forgot to mention in Brazil there are more choices then, for example, only two in the USA. So if one starts to screw me, I vote with another cheap simm chip from a competitor (about 4-5 here in Fortaleza). Judging unofficially here, its far more common that not to _not_ have a contract. I'd assume the opposite is true in the USA. > > I personally would find it ironic if I had an "open source" cell phone > but had to have a contract to use it - but that's just me. Would I be > paying extra on minutes? I only make about 10 minutes of calls a month > and a little more when I travel, but even if it made modest economic > sense, I prefer to pay more for my freedom. Sort of like paying more > for an unlocked openmoko rather than some comparable alternative - if > there's a choice, I'll pay more for freedom. Whether other people > would or wouldn't pay more for their freedom isn't an interesting > question to me - I simply don't care. > > Robert > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Shawn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My question is this: > say I buy a freerunner, but decide to switch to AT&T as my provider (as I > plan to do in the near future), will they not hit me with a contract > agreement anyway? Isn't that how you get the cheapest minute/plans? If thats > the case, then yeah, it looks like the iPhone is cheaper for my situation. > If you already have a mobile plan and do not intend to switch, then the > freerunner is the way to go. . . > > just my 2 cents. Depends on the country and even more on personal preference. I personally have never used a cell phone via a contract - I buy pre-paid minutes, because I know what I'm spending that way. Plus the contract terms are comparable to an EULA - scary stuff to this individual. In fact, in Brazil where I live its illegal to sell a blocked phone - in no small part because those predatory telephone companies do curious things on their bills and limit their services. I think perhaps the USA is the odd ball in their "locked" way of doing business, so ymmv. I personally would find it ironic if I had an "open source" cell phone but had to have a contract to use it - but that's just me. Would I be paying extra on minutes? I only make about 10 minutes of calls a month and a little more when I travel, but even if it made modest economic sense, I prefer to pay more for my freedom. Sort of like paying more for an unlocked openmoko rather than some comparable alternative - if there's a choice, I'll pay more for freedom. Whether other people would or wouldn't pay more for their freedom isn't an interesting question to me - I simply don't care. Robert ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko official resell partners
Hi Harry, no TRIsoft in Germany? Michael Am Mittwoch, 11. Juni 2008 11:43:59 schrieb Harry Tsai: > Dear Community, > You should already know Pulster and IDA, they are our official reseller > in the Germany and India. > Today, I want to introduce new partners in Germany and UK, you can buy > freerunner from them for save your shipping cost and time. > We also have a formal press will release to public later. > > Germany > Golden Delicious Computers- _http://www.goldelico.com _Dr.Nikolaus > Schaller > > UK > TrueBox Technologies - http://www.TrueBox.co.uk Mr. Rob wood > > Besides, I am talking with CEO of Bearstech France about cooperation, so > far they are very closely to become my next official partner. > > BR > > Harry ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko official resell partners
Hi, TRIsoft is collaborating with Golden Delicious.. so if you have preordered on the TRIsoft site there should be no problem at all. Edwin Lock On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 2:44 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is trisoft.de not an official reseller? Which reseller will receive > the first phones? > > thx. > > Ursprüngliche Nachricht > Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Datum: 11.06.2008 11:43 > An: "List for Openmoko community discussion" > Betreff: Openmoko official resell partners > > Dear Community, > You should already know Pulster and IDA, they are our official reseller > in the Germany and India. > Today, I want to introduce new partners in Germany and UK, you can buy > freerunner from them for save your shipping cost and time. > We also have a formal press will release to public later. > > Germany > Golden Delicious Computers- _http://www.goldelico.com _Dr.Nikolaus > Schaller > > UK > TrueBox Technologies - http://www.TrueBox.co.uk Mr. Rob wood > > Besides, I am talking with CEO of Bearstech France about cooperation, so > far they are very closely to become my next official partner. > > BR > > Harry > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sillyness: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price
+1 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sillyness: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price
Michael Kluge wrote: >> 7. Apple currently defines the PDA/mobile marketplace. >> > > No, the smartphone market is dominated by the Blackberry. > Dominate and define are different things. Blackberry might dominate (only in US though), but now Apple has the new cool thing, and every manufacturer from Samsung to Nokia make releases of similar models at the same time. So Apple does define the smartphone market for a given cusomer segment. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jano escreveu: > > I just learned from an overseas friend about this "pay for being called", and > it certainly feels outrageous to someone used to being called for free. > > Alas, I guess it is a matter of time that this "feature" arrives over here... I think the tendency is the opposite. Here in Brazil it used to be like that when the cellphone services started. As the market matured things changed and we don't pay for receiving calls unless you're roaming and I guess in some plans, not even that. In my case that means go 2 states up as 2 down and I'm not in Brazil anymore (I live in Santa Catarina state in case you want to check on the map) :) []s Adilson. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIT85z2cB5Bt7H7YARAjn8AJ9NfolF2z8gtt2qbjAkqPi/yQiRvACfRRP5 mTOuK6kEQHLUFCzJh1b+TAY= =W2J+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 07:57:13AM +0800, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > the day the design mockups for the ui i see stop having alpha > transparency is the day i make this unimportant. until that day, > your "i don't care about this" is the kind of opinion that i also am > not interested in, because i am being shown ui designs hat REQUIRE > it in the long run between windows, and in the short term is being > faked with software within windows. i am just trying to make > something possible that is being requested, and has been for a long > time. not just say "i don't care". The problem isn't that transparency effects, and other CPU/GPU intensitve UI enhancements, are unimportant. On a handheld device they *are* important.They make the device worse.It is important to resist the push to add eye-candy to a handheld device, because every CPU/GPU cycle spent animating an icon, or making a window translucent, eats some of the energy stored in your battery, and reduces the amount of useful work which can be done between recharges. Ken Young ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko official resell partners
Hi Harry, no TRIsoft in Germany? Michael Am Mittwoch, 11. Juni 2008 11:43:59 schrieb Harry Tsai: > Dear Community, > You should already know Pulster and IDA, they are our official reseller > in the Germany and India. > Today, I want to introduce new partners in Germany and UK, you can buy > freerunner from them for save your shipping cost and time. > We also have a formal press will release to public later. > > Germany > Golden Delicious Computers- _http://www.goldelico.com _Dr.Nikolaus > Schaller > > UK > TrueBox Technologies - http://www.TrueBox.co.uk Mr. Rob wood > > Besides, I am talking with CEO of Bearstech France about cooperation, so > far they are very closely to become my next official partner. > > BR > > Harry ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Click Feedback?
Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: > Conclusions: > > *) I will keep PA for the time being and activate module-suspend-on-idle > *) You will be able to turn off the tap ;) Sounds great. -- Drucken Sie diese Mail bitte nur auf Recyclingpapier aus. Please print this mail only on recycled paper. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price
My question is this: say I buy a freerunner, but decide to switch to AT&T as my provider (as I plan to do in the near future), will they not hit me with a contract agreement anyway? Isn't that how you get the cheapest minute/plans? If thats the case, then yeah, it looks like the iPhone is cheaper for my situation. If you already have a mobile plan and do not intend to switch, then the freerunner is the way to go. . . just my 2 cents. - Original Message From: ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: List for Openmoko community discussion Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 4:21:39 PM Subject: Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price Robert Taylor wrote: > Please, compare equal things. > Why are you posting nonsense here? Rob, I'm not the one who posted the original article, and I take offense to you saying that my thoughts are 'nonsense' -- that sort of attitude isn't helpful to anybody. In a previous post, you said: > The iPhone is godawful expensive no matter how you slice it. In another, you said: > The iPhone is AT LEAST twice as expensive as the Moko. We're not talking about what's subsidized and what's not. We're comparing "how much money have I paid out of my pocket after two years" to compare a 2-year contract requirement versus owning a Freerunner. While I'm not trying to encourage any bitter feelings whatsoever, I'm curious how you calculated the iPhone costs twice as much as the Freerunner when you look at the bottom line of how many dollars you've spent after two years. Please elaborate on your calculations. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko official resell partners
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Marcus Bauer escreveu: >> Germany >> Golden Delicious Computers- http://www.goldelico.com Dr.Nikolaus >> Schaller > > Hey, the shop (not the website) is already openmokoed ;-) ... and the name is, hmmm, bold :) (no offense, I really like it!) []s Adilson. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIT8oM2cB5Bt7H7YARAo6WAKDDiE0c5vgboqDoUWiR2LPUggOcxgCfXEgy Owoxq8ffEVK24DZZCWT0keU= =kG1Y -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: comparing Apples and Oranges $199 iPhone Freerunner GTA02
-[ Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 11:47:56AM +0100, Andy Powell ] > I'm sorry but you're wrong. While it might eat a little cpu, it's not much. > Most of the work is actually done by the graphics card Which is just another CPU which also need power. We are speacking about embeded devices here. == Off Topic == > [compiz] > all these things allow you to manage your workspace better. And better yet for productivity, at least for a developper : do not use any "workspace" that require management. :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
AW: Openmoko official resell partners
Is trisoft.de not an official reseller? Which reseller will receive the first phones? thx. Ursprüngliche Nachricht Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Datum: 11.06.2008 11:43 An: "List for Openmoko community discussion" Betreff: Openmoko official resell partners Dear Community, You should already know Pulster and IDA, they are our official reseller in the Germany and India. Today, I want to introduce new partners in Germany and UK, you can buy freerunner from them for save your shipping cost and time. We also have a formal press will release to public later. Germany Golden Delicious Computers- _http://www.goldelico.com _Dr.Nikolaus Schaller UK TrueBox Technologies - http://www.TrueBox.co.uk Mr. Rob wood Besides, I am talking with CEO of Bearstech France about cooperation, so far they are very closely to become my next official partner. BR Harry ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs Meizu M8 price
U also have to know that "running linux" doesn't mean it's open. Some Telenet digiboxes (The onlything in Belgium that can receive the encrypted DBV-C) run Linux, but they are the most closed devices I've ever seen, and they also fail in what they are designed to do. I assume they where designed to receive DVB-C and not to empty peoples pockets, as how Telenet actually uses them. But that's another story. I don't know what the situation is with these iRivers and Meizus. A device doesn't get my attention by running Linux. It gets my attention by being open. Peter Op Wednesday 11 June 2008 00:58:01 schreef cdr: > On Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 08:38:30PM +0200, Ortwin Regel wrote: > > There are cheaper contracts if you don't get a phone with them in > > Germany. No idea what the situation in the US is. (It's probably > > godawful... :-/) Personally, I use a prepaid SIM card so I pay no > > monthly fees at all. Much cheaper for me than any contract. So for me > > the price advantage over an iPhone is very real. > > although both vapor, iRiver and Meizu both have phones in the pipeline > > at least iRivers 'runs linux' as well. > > apple is nowhere near as cost competitive as either of them.. > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03: New case? Bigger screen!
me wants it too ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Click Feedback?
On Wednesday 11 June 2008 12:25:11 Lorn Potter wrote: > Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: > > On Wednesday 11 June 2008 02:39:08 Lorn Potter wrote: > >> Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: > >>> Ok, a first summary: > >>> > >>> *) I still like my tap sound. > >>> *) Almost all people do not want the tap sound. > >>> *) All people do care about getting event sounds while they're playing > >>> something (needs help from a sound daemon or touching every > >>> application) *) I was wrong about the real meaning of PA deprecating > >>> autounloading. I have discovered module-suspend-on-idle :) > >>> > >>> Conclusions: > >>> > >>> *) I will keep PA for the time being and activate > >>> module-suspend-on-idle *) You will be able to turn off the tap ;) > >>> > >>> Thanks for all comments! > >> > >> What about the CPU performance? > > > > Not measurable when it's idle. > > How about when it's active? :) Then it claims about between 10% and 20% of CPU time, which seems a lot, but according to dmix measurements I did years ago, it's still less than dmix. Plus, with PA we get better latency. :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sillyness: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price
Thanks for this enlightening post! I'd wish this thread could fade now... :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: comparing Apples and Oranges $199 iPhone Freerunner GTA02
Hehe... wrongly quoted. Forgiveness pls. Rahul J On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 4:47 PM, Andy Powell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Err, what's that got to do with anything I said? > > > -- > > Andy / ScaredyCat > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: comparing Apples and Oranges $199 iPhone Freerunner GTA02
On Wednesday 11 June 2008 10:12, Rahul Joshi wrote: > Sigh. First off let me begin by saying I'm not comparing iPhone with > FreeRunner (but cud have since they both are... um.. smart phones! its > quite OK saying - apples with apples) > To those hyper-exasperated-over-comparison ppl, raving mad about subsidies, > even a $600 penalty struck iPhone is STILL a good deal. > Fanboys will still buy it and Techies will still stick to OM. End of story. > > Oh.. and one apple to oranges comparison does come to my mind: comparing > FreeRunner with EeePC connected to a triband GSM modem. > > Over and Out. > > Rahul J Err, what's that got to do with anything I said? -- Andy / ScaredyCat pgpMYrb1lCvkX.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Openmoko official resell partners
Can we get an estimate when the phones will reach the official resellers? _ Jouw nieuws en entertainment, vind je op MSN.nl! http://nl.msn.com/___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price
On Wednesday 11 June 2008 09:51, rakshat hooja wrote: > On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Andy Powell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Sounds like you got stuck with the crappy US model contract. AFAIK it's > > only > > the USA (and now India) where you pay to *receive* calls as well as make > > them. Perhaps we're 'lucky' in Europe where inbound calls cost the callee > > nothing.. > > > > > > Andy / ScaredyCat > > No all incoming calls are free in India and most handsets are sold without > contract. This is a pay as you go (or prepaid) sim where they are willing > to offer India Rupees 250/per month (1 USD=43 Indian rupees) for unlimited > data and you can buy voice minuets as you like. what i meant by free > incoming was that the sim will remain active for one year even if you dont > buy any minuets at all and you can continue to receive free incoming calls > for the entire year. > > The normal rate for unlimited data plan is between Indian Rupees Rs395-495 > + a basic rental of your contract (ranging between Rs 200 - 400 for normal > users). Outgoing calls cost are extra. > > The Rs 250/month unlimited data was offered if we bundled their connection > with the > Freerunners we sold. At the moment we have no intentions of doing that as > most of the early buyers form us will be developers but may offer it (or a > better deal) as an *option *when mass market software is ready. > > Rakshat Ahhh ok, thanks for clearing that up. My mistake. -- Andy / ScaredyCat pgpzf6pCIWOzy.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko official resell partners
Great news, thanks for the update! --- On Wed, 6/11/08, Harry Tsai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Harry Tsai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Openmoko official resell partners > To: "List for Openmoko community discussion" > Date: Wednesday, June 11, 2008, 11:43 AM > Dear Community, > You should already know Pulster and IDA, they are our > official reseller > in the Germany and India. > Today, I want to introduce new partners in Germany and UK, > you can buy > freerunner from them for save your shipping cost and time. > We also have a formal press will release to public later. > > Germany > Golden Delicious Computers- _http://www.goldelico.com > _Dr.Nikolaus Schaller > > UK > TrueBox Technologies - http://www.TrueBox.co.uk Mr. Rob > wood > > Besides, I am talking with CEO of Bearstech France about > cooperation, so > far they are very closely to become my next official > partner. > > BR > > Harry___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 07:57:13AM +0800, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > the day the design mockups for the ui i see stop having alpha > transparency is the day i make this unimportant. until that day, > your "i don't care about this" is the kind of opinion that i also am > not interested in, because i am being shown ui designs hat REQUIRE > it in the long run between windows, and in the short term is being > faked with software within windows. i am just trying to make > something possible that is being requested, and has been for a long > time. not just say "i don't care". So how do we go about persuading _those_ people that such high-effort, low-return UI designs are a bad thing? Who should be in this particular conversation, so that we don't put you in the position of fending off people on both sides? (When I speak of "low return", I mean low return in terms of usability -- you don't make user interfaces more usable by adding more transparency, more rounded corners, and drop shadows, particularly on restricted-size interfaces.) Hugo. -- === Hugo Mills: [EMAIL PROTECTED] carfax.org.uk | darksatanic.net | lug.org.uk === PGP key: 515C238D from wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net or http://www.carfax.org.uk --- There's many a slip 'twixt wicket-keeper and gully. --- signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
