Re: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3
Hi What's going to cause the green light to go on? People deciding to spend some money instead of complaining that it is too expensive. What is going to cause people to decide that? branding. But it's already good to have a nice and clear website with downloadable PDF to print out posters What should be the message of such posters? nobody on this list can answer that. we're not *that* type of people. you need input from outside. $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fairphone
Hi Fairphone aims ... supply chain for conflict minerals, poor working conditions or environmental destruction The Neo FreeRunner is a Linux-based touch screen smart phone ultimately aimed at general consumer use (...) will appreciate the total freedom they have to use and design software for the FreeRunner. Two completely different philosophies at work with little common ground. exactly. i couldnt even find whats running on the fairphone - probably stock closed android. it could be a selling point for openmoko to be green (and slaveless) too, though. I've never heard anyone about it on the list. open, free AND fair, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Community] OpenPhoenux Logo contest - Phase 2 (voting)
Hi http://www.openphoenux.org/logo/ Too bad I didn't read about that contest soon enough. Kudos to everyone who submitted a design! If the purpose is to brand OpenPhoneux as a commercial product, I think 6, 4 7 are the main ones that offer enough hooks (to generate stationary, visit cards,etc), without being too presumptious on the consumers taste. I dont think design should be democratic process, though its a Good Thing we can discuss it :-) $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Entry level Ubuntu smartphone
Hi Keeping in mind huge Ubuntu's users base, this might be quite a chance for GTA04 or it's successor, to have a lot of new users and a way enter mass production. Ima buyin ! Where's the lineup ? cu *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [off-topic] smartphone alternatives?
Hi This geeksphone one is very interesting... I wonder if there is a newer android rom available (I googled a bit and it seems there is a CM7), Yes, I'm running CM7.2.0 on the zero. There's actually a few mods more finetuned to the device, like http://blog.nodo21.org/linux/android/2012/06/21/geeksphone-zero-rom-gzr-versi%C3%B3n-14 The original poster mentioned he wasnt too fond of Android. Would certainly be interesting to see if one could install QTMoko ! I need it as a phone tho - not going to expiriment. The hardware seems good. My only real problem sofar is battery life rapidly getting shorter lately, and some random crashes. $2c, *-pike -- *´¨) ¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨) (¸.·´ (¸.·´ * kennis Werkt * ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Phoenux, Phoneux, Phonux?
Hi If we were voting, I'd go for OpenPhonux +1 again. Well, OpenPhonix :-) The name is derived from: Open-Phoen(ix)-(Lin)ux so its openphoenux.org Linux is pronounced in english as Line-ugs (/ˈlɪnəks/ [1]). I.e. it should be phon-ugs. Phoen is not going to be pronounced as foʊn by anyone ? It will be Feenugs in most peoples mouth, as in Phoenic, Phoenicians and Phoenicopteriformes ( flamingos :-) ).. $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Phoenux, Phoneux, Phonux?
Hi I think the group should be more concerned about the ugs part, Absolutely, ugh. And the eee also sounds alarming to me. I hear eeek-yuck! :-) I feel sort of idiot trying to emphasize how important I think this is. But I do. Here I go again. It's the first impression. All the connotations that bubble up with the name, define, in a split second, just how much attention people are going to give it. And all those split seconds together could make the difference between a thriving userbase or a bunch of hardcore hobbyists. Both are great goals ofcourse. But if you want to change the world fundamentally, take the branding seriously all the way. Learning from Apple ? $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Phoenux, Phoneux, Phonux, Phonix?
Hi If we were voting, I'd go for OpenPhonux, because it's roughly equal parts Phone, Phoenix and Linux which seems about right. From the domain name: www.openphoenux.org Which is really too bad. We arent voting, but if we were, Phonix would be my #1 (phone,unix,phoenix), and Phonux #2 (phone,linux,phoenix). What's in a name ? The message. Sales. Promotion. Visibility. Understanding. Remembering. It really cant be underestimated. phonux.com is in use, phonix.com is for sale. phoenux' #1 google hit is a Development platform for new, non-abusable drug substitution medication. :-) For the record, I never liked moko either. Too German. $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Article: What happened to real open source phones?
Hi I have been measuring battery life with 2.6.37 kernel under QtMoko and after 5 days without recharging the battery was low but it still worked. So it looks like freerunner is maybe one of the best smarphones as for battery life, Just for the record, I find that remarkable. I'm running QtMoko out of the box and batteries last ~24hrs if I don't touch it. I only use it for sms because the buzz is back. I read the article, and I agree with the author I'm afraid. Nevertheless, it's good OpenMoko was born, and I'm glad to have seen it happen, partly. [afk to play with cyanogenmod on my other phone] *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [shr-u] Your SIM storage is full.../PIM problem
Hi Your SIM storage is full. Please delete some messages or you may not receive them anymore! on a regular basis. I get the message after every reboot and after receiving an sms, everytime. and I really don't seem to be able to receive any text messages (SMS) anymore. I am - it just works. The error message itself is the bug in my case. I am assuming some process is looking at the non-opimd storage (which had the .. 20 ? .. messages limit), in fact, there may be 20 messages stuck there, but not in the opimd storage I'm using right now. If that is so, switching to the old storage, cleaning that up, and returning to the new storage would help. I've learned to live with it :-/ $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Hi their MiniBook. I would buy it, if it was wrist mountable; sort of a slide in mount on my wrist. I would buy it. Full stop :-) I cant find any demo videoos on the minibook ? *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WikiReader sales and the future of Openmoko
Please note Linux is a Torvalds (TM). TM stands for total monopol. Or terrible monster. Torvalds is evil. Linux is no free OS. huh ? ok, troll. please, lets leave him there. dont respond to this mail ! $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My N900 experience compared to my FR experience
Hi It wouldn't hurt, though, if some truly (with some definition near FR's definition or better) open phone would come out by then. has anyone looked at the geeksphone yet ? http://forum.geeksphone.com/index.php/topic,891.0.html I'm assuming all the hardware is 'open' .. I know nothing about hardware. I'm willing to pay 100euro extra for a developer who delivers the brick with a working FSO-based distribution on it. And documents how its done. Who follows ? :-D is it possible at all ? 0$c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SHR-U: Empty VT on resume
Hi has this SHR-U: Empty VT on resume http://shr-users-discussions.2691941.n2.nabble.com/SHR-U-Empty-VT-on-resume-td5005437.html ever been solved ? I've basicly stopped taking my phone with me once this has started. people refer to me as the guy with the open-no-phone :-) thanks, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[shr-u] feeling less adventurous
Hi I flashed shr-u onto my Neo twice yesterday, and both times, though it worked fine at first, it didnt survive a deep sleep and never successfully booted again (*). So, I'm feeling less adventurous already. This used to be my daily phone :-/ What would be a best choice to have a working phone that uses FSO ? SHR-t ? Debian ? curious, *-pike (*) after deep sleep, it returns to a black window with a blinking cursor - looks like x doesnt start. after reboot, i get the wellknown unknown boot option g_ether_bla, i get the pinguin for a while, then it returns to unknown boot option g_ether_bla. again it looks like x is not starting; I hear interference over my stereo, as if GSM is booting. If anyone has an idea, let me know. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[SHR-U] root homedir ?
Hi Since I updated this week, in some occassions, root has homedir / instead of /home/root. This happens for example when starting vala-terminal. Its set ok in /etc/passwd. su root will fix it. Nevertheless, it messed up /, I now have /Desktop, /.e, /.ash_history, etc. Is it just me ? curious, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Thone 0.5
Hi Rafael On April 1st, 2009, Werner Almesberger wrote April 1 is not over yet ;-) [1] Grrreat!.. :-) Thanks a lot!. I will test your job on fatfingershell asap and I'll let you know how it goes. Since new libsdl lets us run/rotate sdl applications on fb directly it would be possible to start the system with just a shell to work :) In fact, I had that setup before I flashed my phone. The launcher started with fatfingershell -e thone jail But after flashing to shr-u, I can't install the ipk for fatfingershell anymore :-/ It depends on libsdl and libvorbis, but shr-u uses libsdl-ttf-2.0-0 and libvorbis0 (i'm guessing these are the intended packages).. cu *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Thone 0.7
Hi I reflashed my brick, and it repeated the reported error: * updating sms.cache.. /org/freesmartphone/PIM/Messages/Query: Query failed: org.freedesktop.DBus.Python.AttributeError Fixed those and there's a new version at http://thone.googlecode.com/ If anyone finds any other bugs, I'd like to know ! thanks, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Thone 0.5
Hi http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Pike/Thone I'm not going to host that .ipk.. but add recipe to shr and it will be in SHR feeds as any other app :). Bear with me :-) The bitbake recipe refers to the ipk ? In either case, it's probably better to wait for a bit more stable version, or find a way for me to fix bugs upstream. In short, wow thanks, but please don't, yet. BTW: in 0.5 * updating sms.cache.. /org/freesmartphone/PIM/Messages/Query: Query failed: org.freedesktop.DBus.Python.AttributeError is it something fixed in 0.6 already? (I'll try in few minutes..) I don't think so - never seen it. Let me check if I can repeat it. thanks! *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Thone 0.5
Hi In short, wow thanks, but please don't, yet. It's your call, but I don't see any disadvantage of having thone in shr feeds. Let me know if you change your mind. Thanks, but I'll get back to you. Want to fix your error first :-) Steps used here: thone sms tabtab sms grep: /home/root/.thone/ppl.cache/*ppl: No such file or directory that's fixed in 0.6 sms list * updating sms.cache.. /org/freesmartphone/PIM/Messages/Query: Query failed: org.freedesktop.DBus.Python.AttributeError that's not. I'll be back, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: fullscreen transparent keyboard
Hi I think it would be nice to have fullscreen transparent keyboard instead of small keyboard in the bottom that eats screen space. So anybody know application that fit my needs? I googled... but found nothing Fatfingershell. But as the name implies, that's a shell. Obviously, if there is screen interactivity allowed in the application where you'd need the keyboard (I mean, if it has buttons), you'll have problems overlaying it with a transparent keyboard. Which can be solved. I'm curious what you have in mind. Yes, I'd love it. $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
src bitbake ipkg
Hi Bear with me :-) The bitbake recipe refers to the ipk ? bitbake recipe is build description which instructs bitbake how to create correct .ipk or .dep or .rpm or whatever from source archive. In thone case it's repackaging your scripts. Thanks for being clear here. I thought long and deep about this, and, read a manual :-) Probably the bitbake recipe is more complicated than the ipk it creates, but I guess that doesnt matter on your side - you need the recipe, not the bread. For now, I'll try hosting the ipkg myself; based on the one you created. A question: why is that file different than the ipkg described by QTopia http://qtextended.org/modules/developers/qtopia.php?linkFile=developers/IPKG_Howto or even here http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/BuildingIpkgs In these descriptions, the control directory is a directory, not a file. just curious, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Thone 0.5
Hi http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Pike/Thone Haven't tried yet, but from description it looks usefull (I'm using my neo mostly only remotely over ssh connection :)). So I'm already preparing bb recipe for that to put it in shr-u feeds. That sounds great. Not exactly sure what it means though :-) Let me know if you need anything. for example .. I've put the tarbal up on google code but I could put the sources under public svn there if thats easier ? thanks, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Thone 0.5
Hi http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Pike/Thone I have .ipk now http://jama.homelinux.org/org.openembedded.shr/all/thone_0.5-r0.4_all.ipk Cool! Thanks! Now, as was to be expected, I fixed some bugs and upped a new version, 0.6 .. with a different url .. wouldnt it be easier if I hosted that ipk myself, on googlecode ? .. so i was trying to untarzip your ipk file to see if I could update it but it gives tar: invalid tar magic. isnt it a tarzip ? I'm wondering how to proceed. Never done this. Given the way .ipk works, I dont see the need for a makefile. BTW: Haven't seen your real name to fill AUTHOR field properly.. but nick will be enough if it is intentional ;) . Yeah, pike will do :-) thanks, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Thone 0.5
On April 1st, 2009, Werner Almesberger wrote April 1 is not over yet ;-) [1] Following up on that discussion, I decided to write a bunch of shell scripts to read/write sms, calls, manage your address book etc. At first, they were basicly mdbus wrappers. But it apparently took me a full year get the details right. And today is a nice day to release what I have http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Pike/Thone I'm curious what y'all think. My aim was to write something that would beat the guis: quicker to load, easier to work with, more reliable, and, when using a gui like FatFingerShell [2], prettier :-) But to be honest, I'm not there yet. I learned the nitgrit of bash, sed and awk along the way; most of the code already looks like babytalk to me now, but well it works. $2c, *-pike [1] http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td2542865%7Ca2568942 [2] http://fz.hobby-site.org/om/fatfingershell/web.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[SHR-U] org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM SQLite
Hi It seems, when I select SQLite as a backend for my sms messages, I can't retrieve incoming messages using org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM By for example http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=blob_plain;f=html/org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.html;hb=HEAD#RetrieveMessagebook The above works if I select the SIM as a backend for sms messages. It looks like SQLite is implemented somewhere between PIM and SIM. If that's documented somewhere, I'm afraid I couldn't find it. Can anyone confirm that, or is there something wrong with my installation ? thanks, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Now someone REALLY has to help me!!
Hi before everything else, it would be really helpful, if you could let us know which operating system you are using. yes. if you're on a mac, things can be slightly simpler. I use openmoko-flasher http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%20Flasher to flash the 2 mentioned images (jffs2 and bin) to my neo. over usb. in the right order. that was usually all i had to do, if i sticked to the same bootloader. somebody correct me if my memory is wrong. Isn't there a similar wrapper for windows ? $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OT: Where can I meet a female companion with similar interests and personality /in person/?
Hi Yes, or “One should do as he or she likes.”. Or use they: People can do as they like I usually use s/he. I wish there was a form for his/er (her/is), too... $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [wikireader]Suggestions for next steps on software
Hi .. I'm not sure if it has been mentioned - didnt follow all the buzz on the list .. .. and it's not a software update .. .. but I initially expected Wikireader to have GPS onboard and simply tell you about your surroundings. There are 1000s of GPS annotated entries on Wikipedia ? I see all those 'W' links in Google maps. A perfect travelguide. WikiTravelMate. $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Insisting on metaphors that exploit the device's weaknesses (Re: Centralization of graphical awesomeness)
Hi [scrolling] There are other metaphors available that would fit the device's strengths much better. What about paging? +1 for paging. mind you, I dont need a button for paging, a gesture could do it. which makes it feel very much like scrolling again, but then more solid. $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: fatfingershell V0.2
Hi Portrait: no yet, and I am not sure if I want a portrait mode. I want a 80x24 shell, and comfortable keyboard. I don't know how to do that in portrait mode yet. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Pike/FFShell that may be radical, but I'm not sure if I find a qwerty layout to be the most comfi too. in the default keyboard in fatfingershell the keys are high rather than wide. I estimate my fingertips are about 160 wide (and 80 high). I found I could use ffshell flawlessly when holding it vertical :-) $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR-U] Keyboard layouts for extremely fat fingers
Hi I have created two keyboard layouts for the illume keyboard. They are available from this repository: http://glitch.tl/cgi-bin/hgwebdir.cgi/home/host/glitch.tl/repos/openmoko-keyboards/file/tip The picture is a 1000 words. http://glitch.tl/cgi-bin/hgwebdir.cgi/home/host/glitch.tl/repos/openmoko-keyboards/raw-file/8ae977b23a1c/alpha.png Very nice. I want it. I guess I'll try http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Illume_keyboard#How_to_install_a_new_layout thanks! *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR-U] Keyboard layouts for extremely fat fingers
Hi I have created two keyboard layouts for the illume keyboard. They are available from this repository: Very nice. I want it. I guess I'll try http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Illume_keyboard#How_to_install_a_new_layout That didn't work all that nice :-( Tried to install them next to raster's keyboards, but they appeared all empty. Then I replaced rasters keyboard with these, but Enlightenment segfaulted, had to restart, lost my ssh into the brick and Enlightment wouldnt get back up .. ouch .. anyway The trick is, the files shouldnt start with comments. I removed the first 4 lines (so it starts with ##KBDCONF-1.0) and they work like a charm. Can't really run them side by side with Raster's, because the keyboard's canvas sizes are different; apparently, enlightenment chooses the canvas size of the first keyboard it finds and sticks to that. I have them all working now, but raster's keyboards are swimming in a pool of empty greyness. Great though - I'll stick to those. thanks! *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR-U] Keyboard layouts for extremely fat fingers
Hi I occasionally need the terminal layout so I may attempt a new version of that one as well. actually the 'type' of Alpha.kbd is set to 'TERMINAL' instead of 'ALPHA'. I haven't noticed any difference though. I think it's the quotes around the second character that makes it use the dictionray prediction. One character I was instantly missing was the :. I had to use the 'Terminal' layout to type a smiley :-) Thanks! *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: fatfingershell ?
Hi - a 3rd keyboard for special chars (1 is keys, 2 is numbers, 3 is *) - I'm short on screen estate already :-) I would like to see a third keyboard that is programmable. That way, I could have a Call key that types the word call . I was dreaming about the same thing .. if you stretch that concept, instead of a keyboard, you would have more of a push-button interface to control a terminal. and you can switch back to a normal keyboard to just start typing old style. I doesnt seem to hard too. i just peeked around, but in the code where char *keyreleased() is defined, the key sent to the terminal is a asci code taken from an array that is read from the config file on startup. if that could be a string instead of a asci char .. the rest would up to the designers of a layout. excited, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: fatfingershell ?
Hi I just *love* the fatfingershell http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV4p414_VJM http://fz.hobby-site.org/om/fatfingershell/ .. and i'm really curious if there's been any update since april 1 ? Yes and no. I have almost ready a new version That's very cool. I have been playing with the idea on and off. The suite of bash scripts to do calls etc is actually ofcourse indepent from the actual terminal used - in my eyes, fatfingershell is rather a type of terminal than a shell. it's bash in a fancy terminal. So, I've been playing on an adapted/finetuned bash - where for example autocompletion also takes your call history and addressbook into account :-) c[tab] pi[tab] would call pike. It would work in vala-terminal just as well. But still, just playing. I'm not in favor of one char commands - i like the fact that the terminal would literally type out call if you type c[tab]. This way, getting familiar with the available commands is really easy. Ofcourse, it implies there should be no other commands with a c on your path. Anyway - looking forward to the improvements ! thanks, *-pike PS. Some ideas here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Pike/FFShell ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
fatfingershell ?
Hi I just *love* the fatfingershell http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV4p414_VJM http://fz.hobby-site.org/om/fatfingershell/ .. and i'm really curious if there's been any update since april 1 ? If I think real hard, there's a number of things that come to mind to make it fully functional. Some of them I'm puzzling on, others are beyond me, but perhaps people on this list have suggestions ? Here's a list I wrote: *to handle incoming signals from the dbus: - handlers to send dbus signals to the running bash shell. it could be as simple as a wall message - incoming call from xxx. I *imagine* thats just a matter of changing yaml files, but that would break your 'default' phone functionality forever ? You'd want to temporarily disable some default handlers while fatfingershell is running. I wouldnt know how to do that. Perhaps Siglaunchd can help ? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Siglaunchd - Non-keyboard handlers to reply to such signals. E.g. when the phone rings, you may be in the middle of typing some text, or maybe not using the keyboard at all (f.e. looking at tangogps). So you can't type yes to answer the phone; instead, pressing a button should answer or cancel the call (and perhaps switch to bash to start some interactive app, if you werent already doing something else there ...) *for the fatfingershell c app itself: - a separate middle layer, so the transparency of the middle layer doesnt affect the transparency of the font I'm afraid this depends on SDL_Terminal .. not sure if it can do that at all. - a slightly bigger font size - a way to set the terminal location/rect to match other keyboard layouts - a way to use a vertical layout instead. that makes more sense to me, but also, SHR-U crashes when resuming from deep sleep in landscape mode, making ffshell unusable for now :-( - arrows on the keyboard layout to use your history. - removing the -d option, focusing on 'selecting' a layout instead. there might be more then 2 options; and it could be as simple as copying the right files to the right place. - additional layouts. i'm playing with those :-) - a 3rd keyboard for special chars (1 is keys, 2 is numbers, 3 is *) - I'm short on screen estate already :-) *for the package - a suite of bash scripts to do things, like send sms's and make calls. these are around, and i'm playing with them. - smart bash tab completion for these bash scripts, to do them fast. sending an sms to john could be as quick as typing s[tab] @j[tab]. no gui is ever going to beat that :-) - a nice opk package :-) just playing, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: nEo theme issues
Hello Bernd Prünster wrote: didnt really read the ml for about 1 month now, but there are somi issues with teh neo theme [...] i just look into topics i find interesting so either post issues here or mail me directly. OK then, here I go - I installed the (brilliant) neo theme. One of the issues I had with it was that - I think - some windows use a black font on a black background - I'm not sure, all I see is black :-) This was so annoying that I tried to uninstall it using the directions here [1], but I never got it really removed; still lots of black screens with green hairlines. More annoying, some windows still show black text on a black background, amongst which the 'read sms' screen and a screen called 'notification' of which I'm not sure what spawns it - I cant read it :-) I'm probably just missing one thing, like, gtk config. any idea ? [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SHR_User_Manual#Settings:_Others thanks, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: nEo theme issues
Hi I also had this with AGTL - it's not the theme's, but the app coder's fault who sets text color manually yes, undoubtably. i could confirm that if I could uninstall the neo theme to check if there is really black text around. but I'm not sure. just for my information, what is the 'default' background color in the 'sms/read' window in the 'messages' application on SHR ? and does anyone know where that is set (just checked- its not GTK). thanks, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[shr-u] stuck in the 'default' theme
Hi I accidentaly changed the illume theme from illume-shr to 'default'. you wouldnt think that could hurt so much :-D but since i dont have the topbar anymore, i can't get to the illume wrench to change it back. i'd do it through the terminal, but i have no keyboard - because that is in the topbar to. plus, i can't ssh into the machine at this point - probably something with /etc/default/dropbear, but I can't change that without a terminal (and a keyboard) too. s .. i'm stuck ? reflash it ? hilarious, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [shr-u] stuck in the 'default' theme [solved]
Hi i think you can delete your /home/root/.e folder and everything will reset to the original settings I managed to log in through wifi - boy am i glad i made a desktop icon for activating my home wifi :-) - and deleting ~/.e did it. thanks! *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Different Navit builds
Hi hand crafted OSD layout also very useful on my FR. care to share? screenshot? Feel free to post the screenshot and OSD in the wiki, too. Oh - ah - ok http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Pike/Navit I actually tried to upload this to the Navit wiki, but they don't seem to be eager for such contributions .. $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[om2009] (I) messed up alsa
Hi I opened up alsamixer and fiddled with most of the 96 sliders. And now, my phone makes a horrible sound (apparently) on the other end of a phone conversation. The sound has been described as BRRiKKKiRRRiRRiZZiZZZSCH I *guess* I messed up the alsa-state files permanently. What's the easiest way to revert them back to their original settings ? I was thinking to opkg-remove, opkg-install something ? *-pike PS. What I was trying to do is get sound out of my external speakers - ffalarms wasn't much good without it. And in fact, that works now :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Different Navit builds
Hi hand crafted OSD layout also very useful on my FR. care to share? screenshot? I am not sure if all OSD Layouts should be placed on OSD wiki page [1], so i put it on my user page [2]. Actually, there is a page for examples there http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/OSD_Layouts#Neo_FreeRunner But as you've noticed, you can't upload pictures there .. $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: battery not fully charging
Hi
Since this week, my battery isnt charging to the fullest anymore.
How do you estimate the charge?
by looking at the icons in illume and paroli :-)
ok, let me try a
mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.odeviced \
/org/freesmartphone/Device/PowerSupply/battery \
org.freesmartphone.Device.PowerSupply.GetInfo
after loading a full night:
{ 'capacity': '96',
'charge_full': '1121337',
'current_now': '29437',
'health': 'Good',
'online': '1',
'present': '1',
'status': 'Charging',
'technology': 'Li-ion',
'temp': '313',
'time_to_empty_now': '138840',
'time_to_full_now': '3932100',
'type': 'Battery',
'voltage_now': '4128000'}
.. but i'm not sure what means what.
does this look bad ?
$2c,
*-pike
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Re: battery not fully charging
Hi
Since this week, my battery isnt charging to the fullest anymore.
mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.odeviced \
/org/freesmartphone/Device/PowerSupply/battery \
org.freesmartphone.Device.PowerSupply.GetInfo
after loading a full night:
{ 'capacity': '96',
'charge_full': '1121337',
'current_now': '29437',
'health': 'Good',
'online': '1',
'present': '1',
'status': 'Charging',
'technology': 'Li-ion',
'temp': '313',
'time_to_empty_now': '138840',
'time_to_full_now': '3932100',
'type': 'Battery',
'voltage_now': '4128000'}
Your battery is ok, it reports 96% of charge ('capacity').
is it charged ? the icons say its at about 50% ?
its been on juice for near 12 hours.
thanks,
*-pike
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Re: battery not fully charging
Hi Since this week, my battery isnt charging to the fullest anymore. r...@om-gta02:~# cat /sys/class/power_supply/battery/capacity 97 r...@om-gta02:~# cat /sys/class/power_supply/battery/voltage_now 416 r...@om-gta02:~# ok, sort of consistent with mdbus You didn't mention the distro (or I missed it) sorry, om2009 (didnt think it would matter). I only have one battery (??) and USB was not connected, so it can't be HAL being confused about that. I'll take out the battery for an hour and see if that fixes the displayed icons. thanks! *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: testing Litephone, new phone interface
Hi I gave it a try and wrote an FSO based phone app in Qt. http://pvtrace.com/litephone/litephone1.png Looks very nice ! The liter the better. Have you got more screensnaps ? What does it look like with a keyboard ? curious, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: battery not fully charging
Hi Since this week, my battery isnt charging to the fullest anymore. You didn't mention the distro (or I missed it) sorry, om2009 (didnt think it would matter). It *is* HAL confused about that. It's fixed in SHR, you can fix that by changing from HAL to Internal in battery meter settings (and after changing - reboot) that was it. in illume, topbar, wrench, advanced, battery meter, advanced, set from auto to internal, and reboot. pulling the battery and praying for 5 minutes didnt help. thanks! *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
om2009 - exceptional dbus.exceptions exception
Hi an interesting exception I noticed when playing with mdbus - when I interrupt a mdbus call with control-c, it throws a python exception at me saying (eventually) ImportError: no module named dbus.exceptions Now, that sounds .. wrong. It's trying to properly raise an exception, but it can't ? It also killed my phone at the time, and i had to pop the battery (again..), but retrying it now my phone survives. Is it a known issue, or not an issue at all ? I can't find anything about it. $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
battery not fully charging
Hi Since this week, my battery isnt charging to the fullest anymore. This didnt just gradually change, but happened 'all of a sudden'. It charges - connected to the charger - up to ~50% of its capacity and doesnt seem to go any further. Did anyone else experience this ? curious, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [shr-u] navit - howto config navit.xml
Hi I'm having this same issue. Navit starts just fine. I start if from a terminal and there are no errors, but neither are there maps. I have the following line in my ~/.navit/navit.xml (startup messages show me it's using this file): mapset enabled=yes map type=binfile enabled=yes data=/media/mmcblk0p2/root/Maps/Navit/planet-080928.bin / /mapset I dont know if it helps you, but I had the same until I *disabled* the demo mapset. It seems only one mapset is allowed (perhaps, or perhaps its something else - it doesnt mention this in the wiki so i always assume i'm crazy - if this helps we should update the om wiki page to mention this, ehr, feature) you *can* put multiple maps in one mapset, though. good luck! *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
Hi With virtually every movie that depicts an even slightly futuristic world showing video telephony, it's no surprise that some people do start to believe that this will be part of the future ... With that in mind, we could ask ourselves what are the roads not taken in the guided evolution of the mobile phone, because they led away from that perceived holy grail. Then put the creative energy not wasted on chasing Apple into doing something that's really groundbreaking. Interesting observation :-) So, what did science fiction *miss* ? I've always been amazed by the 1-on-1 nature of phone calls. Perhaps that made sense in the time of landlines and switchboards, but nowadays, especially in an office environment, you find yourself calling 5 people one after another just to get an appointment fixed (or rather, you'd do it by email-or-something, which supports multiple recipients. but then, that gets confusing because of the asynchrone responses .. ) Ofcourse, you cant expect people to jump into a conference call every moment. But if you could 'add' a person during a call, that would help. It would be possible if only one of the connected devices could do that. just dreaming.. *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: applied sci-fi (was Re: New Open Hardware company)
Hi Okay, that's a far-out idea. Something closer to home: if you don't need video telephony, you don't need rapidly updating color images. So, put e-paper into those phones. Maybe even the well-established grayscale type. It probably still updates quickly enough that you could even doodle on it. I've been trying to prepare my openmoko as a 'hitchhiker guide to the galaxy' - using the lonely planet in pdf format. but it didnt really cut edge :-/ I've always been amazed by the 1-on-1 nature of phone calls. Oh, that's been solved already. Even GSM supports multi-party calls. strange, i've never seen it in day-to-day usage. can't do it on my phone afaik ? 'ok sue, lets ask him - tuut - hi john, its sue and dan here, we had a question' 'how did you do that, dan ? oh, i've an open phone'. cu *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
keeping om2009 awake
Hi does anyone know how to keep the om2009 awake ? the related settings in paroli and illume both dont seem to do much on my moko. There must be a Greater Force falling asleep, too. I'm sure its simple and I just missed the writing on some wall. But I cant find it. It annoys me so much that i'm afraid i will hurt its display one of these days :-/ thanks! *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
om2009 activating wifi
Hi and another one - I have scripts to connect to my wifi, several ways, it all works, but only after I activated the wifi driver. The only way I know how to do that is through Paroli settings. Is there a way to do it from the command line ? thanks, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: om2009 activating wifi
Hi One thing you must do, is ifdown usb0 in the command line. Or route del default gw 192.168.0.202. But I've removed the default usb route from /etc/networking/. I *never* connect outwards through usb. I use a mac. So I dont have to do that anymore. What I tried to say is, its all working fine now .. except I have to 'activate' the wifi driver in paroli first. Before that, eth0 is just completely non-existant as a device; ifup,ifdown,iwconfig and friends will just not see it. eth0 - no such device. So the question is, what does activate mean in paroli ? what does it do ? thanks, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: om2009 activating wifi
Hi are there any other tips for wifi? ive tried monfi and saskia and still have yet to get a connection at work or home. so besides this usb0 thing and turning on the wifi radio what other steps are there? none of the gui's ever got me a connection. it's working fine now after doing it manually a 1000 times and finally wrapping that up in a shell script today. How it works manually depends on your setup. If you're not using wep or wpa (like i dont), its basicly a combination of the right /etc/network/interfaces, ifup, ifdown (and iwconfig to speed it up). ifup should call udhcpc for you. iwlist is your friend, too. if you are using wep or wpa, i guess you'd need to write a wpa_supplicant. All that is described here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wireless_Networking except for how to exactly set up /etc/network/interfaces. I figured that out by reading examples... Indeed, it wasnt easy. For me. $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: om2009 activating wifi
Hi I have to 'activate' the wifi driver in paroli first. That's a feature, not a bug ;) yep So the question is, what does activate mean in paroli ? what does it do ? It talks to FSO to request WiFi activation, FSO will turn on the WiFi. If your WiFi manager requests the WiFi resource directly to FSO you do not need to activate the WiFi in paroli. OK. I dont really understand that last sentence, but thats ok :-) I suppose it means f.e. MoFi could talk to FSO too, if it wanted (perhaps it even does). Is there a way to request WiFi activation from FSO straight from the command line ? thanks, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: keeping om2009 awake
Hi etc/frameworkd.conf suspend and idle timoutes this one ? [odeviced.idlenotifier] suspend = -1 ignoreinput = 2,3 looks good ? is there any documentation on this - i can only find other peoples examples ? You can also request the CPU and/or Display resources, or change their policy from auto to enabled. Apps can do this themselves, or use the fsoraw wrapper program when starting the app if it doesn't support it natively. This will request the resource at app start, and release it at exit. I've now tried mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.ousaged /org/freesmartphone/Usage org.freesmartphone.Usage.SetResourcePolicy Display enabled and it seems to help. I'd like to investigate a bit what's possible with mdbus, but mdbus returns mostly deprecated and discouraged warnings. mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.frameworkd returns only errors. is that normal ? thanks! *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: om2009 activating wifi
Hi Is there a way to request WiFi activation from FSO straight from the command line ? Yes, if you search the archive you'll find some mdbus or dbus-send examples, or as saied you may use fsoraw. Sorry, I found none. I'm sure I just dont really know what I'm looking for. Anyway, mdbus helped me out: alltogether this is my way to get wifi from scratch that doesnt die every 20 secs : # keep the screen alive mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.ousaged /org/freesmartphone/Usage \ org.freesmartphone.Usage.SetResourcePolicy \ Display enabled # power up wifi mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.odeviced \ /org/freesmartphone/Device/PowerControl/WiFi \ org.freesmartphone.Device.PowerControl.SetPower True # bounce eth0 ifdown eth0; ifup eth0 # more custom stuff thanks, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anti-Whining: Happy Moko Moments
Hi But I could sit in the train in peace. And while on that train, did you see the light at the end of the tunnel? no, sorry, i was staring at a black terminal :-) *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anti-Whining: Happy Moko Moments
Hi just an hour ago, I had to leave the building while a webserver that I was working on had a load of 20% and rising. While walking to the train, I enabled GPRS, started a terminal and logged back in. .. and the load went down. Well, it wasn't the FR bringing the load down. But I could sit in the train in peace. $2c, *-pike PS. GPRS died, never to return, once I forgot to tap the screen for 5 seconds. Had to reboot. Still dont know how to turn sleep off in om2009. But for once, it was all forgiven. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om2009 testing release 5
Hi is it me or is xrandr or xglamo a bit confused ? I do export DISPLAY=:0 xrandr -q 480x64050.0* 640x48025.0 240x32050.0 320x24050.0 but it doesnt actually seem to support all that on my neo. xrandr -o left that works (and selects the second option) xrandr -s 320x240 gives a weird screen with two vertical pages on a horizontal screen, with a slight offset, mosaic. starting from scratch, the xrandr -s 320x240 turns the screen all white/yellowish and unreadable. after switching a few times, x crashes. restarting xserver-nodm twice repairs it. what am i doing wrong ? curious, *-pike PS - I installed opendoom - it has the same problem, its trying to rotate the screen into 320x240, but the screen goes yellow most of the time.. which is why I was trying to look into this. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om2009 testing release 5
Hi what am i doing wrong ? You are not reading the bug reports :-) you're so right. did now, and its tracced here. http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2162 fwiw, this bug is in om2009 testing release5, cleanly flashed. and with some fiddling like # export DISPLAY=:0 # xrandr -s 320x240 -o left # echo qvga-normal /sys/bus/spi/devices/spi2.0/state # dm I did get it to work, temporarily. Also, you did not very clearly specify if you are using Xglamo or Xorg with xserver-xorg-video-glamo. because I wouldn't have a clue, sorry :-) thanks, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om2009 testing release 5
Hi I'd suggest also to use the lateral scrolling (left/right) to (respectively) decrease and increase the values for options such the Suspend time and other cycling settings; That's an idea. I toyed with the idea of having such lists of settings (numerical/boolean) with buttons on each side: (-) hour:07 (+) (off) alarm (on) sort of an 'old school' lateral slider :-) $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om2009 testing release 5
Hi Not sure when this started, but it might be since flashing to om2009 release5: I can't ssh into my Neo any more. Not over wifi, and not over usb. ~pike$ ping 192.168.0.200 [..] --- 192.168.0.200 ping statistics --- 2 packets transmitted, 2 packets received, 0% packet loss ~pike$ ssh r...@192.168.0.200 ssh: connect to host 192.168.0.200 port 22: Connection refused ~pike$ ping 192.168.1.31 [..] --- 192.168.1.31 ping statistics --- 2 packets transmitted, 2 packets received, 0% packet loss ~pike$ ssh r...@192.168.1.31 ssh: connect to host 192.168.1.31 port 22: Connection refused the connections are good. dropbear is running. a few other apparent bugs are disabling me to test it very thorough, but .. am I overseeing something ? curious, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om2009 testing release 5
Hi ~pike$ ping 192.168.0.200 Try at 192.168.0.202 :-) eeeuuh... :-) ~ pike$ ssh r...@192.168.0.202 r...@192.168.0.202's password: r...@om-gta02:~# thanks! *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om2009 testing release 5
Hi Woot - I'm trying the opkg update ; opkg upgrade approach now. I look forward to the improvements a lot. In case there's anybody as stupid as me out there, don't try that from within the Illume vala-terminal :-) Did you remember to remove ~/.e -directory? cu *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
one button ui
Hi Being only two buttons, they shouldn't ever be hardwired to specific functions, but instead have different actions according to the foreground application. It's only two buttons, but they send a signal each second. It may sound weird, but I think I wouldnt mind having a different function under every second - provided the button would beep every second while pressed too, so I could countdown. I'd put the keyboard toggle at beep 3. For example. I got that idea while looking at siglaunchd http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Siglaunchd which can do all that (and more). and I tried to set it up, but didnt get a BEEP working sofar :-) Does anyone know how to beep() ? $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
Hi I like the settings button on screen (I don't like more the use of the AUX Button, I think that is not much intuitive). That's easy, actually. Edit /usr/share/paroli/Applications/Settings/settings.py to change category to launcher. I did that, and it works. $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
Hi Thanks for thinking and investigating time about paroli look! Thanks for your reply - I missed it in the bulk. I have read your proposal, however I dont really get the sizzle part (maybe because of my weak english skills). Well, the 'sizzle' could be anything. I'd like to see the phone get excited once you start touching it; it can be boring as dead if its laying on the table, in fact, I'd like that. But when you touch it, ... yes, I have a sort of erotic concept here :-) As for the hilites - I understand there is no 'hoover'; but there is a split second before the screen actually changes. about 0.2 seconds will be exactly enough to give the feeling it's sizzling :-) I've seen this behaviour in om2008 - the same green - it was exciting. I assume someone (Mirko?) is still leading on development of paroli. That is true, Mirko is still around, and leading paroli development. Im messing with the gui here and there. OK, that's good to know. I'm actually not sure if I'll make the dive into edje soon :-| I don't like edje very much from the looks of it. Yeah, Im almost done, with the most basic and urgent improvements (back button everywhere). Great - sorry - that's not what I meant - I meant, I don't like edje as a gui language. I was taught there.is.only.xul :-) nice video btw ! *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
Hi We are in, task 2 done you can see and download them at http://www.tuxbrain.com/node/19 ok - I have similar screenshots at http://pike.kw.nl/browse/files/projects/pike/2009/om2009/parolishots I was aiming at a more graphic redesign, so it includes screenshots with raster keyboard and paroli-in-illume (which imho should be considered in the design efforts - most people will -have to- actually use it windowed). $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
Hi Hey great! All 'design guidelines' and things like that are great! I'd like you to explain more of what's happening in the screenshots. Tell what is new, why have you done it, what's the thinking behind it etc. I find it more easier to explain using pictures :-) Got a graphic mind I guess. Take a look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Bab-1.2-3screens.png Any good interface has it's on Rythm Rhyme. On a single screen, your eye will catch the hidden grid and swerve around primary and secondary options in a split second. This works subliminally - you wouldn't even notice, but this is what makes an interface 'feel good'. This is even more true for phones, small screen, use it with one eye and one finger in a busy environment .. and between screens, your memory will recognize changes in that Rythm and Rhyme, too. Yes, a good interface is much like a poem, or a piece of music :-) .. so I was trying to find a grid, a basic layout, that fits all purposes. At the same time, this grid should be numberfriendly, as it has to be programmed in edje. You need a few classes of fonts, not a new font on every page. Same with colors, shades, etc. So that's basicly what this was http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:BAB-List-default-1.0-grid.png .. but it's already outdated :-) Such a grid should include whatever options you might think of in the future - dialogs, extra buttons, etc .. so that's basicly this http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:BAB-List-default-1.0.png For example, this big blocker bar (a modal dialog) is not actually used anywhere, but if it *would* be, it should be there (there is a modal dialog in the dial and when sending an sms, btw). Same for the informational bar - a thing that should hide itself once you touch the screen imho - its not used anywhere - but if it would be, it should be right there. And hey, it could say 52 messages, 4 unread, for an instance, couldnt it ? :-) what is new As little as possible :-D But, as I'm sketching and using the phone, a few things are indeed new and needed imho. - The next, back paradigm doesnt really work for me. I want to know *what* next is. back is not always where I came from. And above that, I don't always know where I am (this happens particularly in the settings, currently). So I've changed back and next to a virtual path and an action. There could be more actions, actually (eg in sms|read, you can delete and reply a message). If you click on an action, that should become part of your path in the next screen. For example, if you are in Setting | Wifi, the main action is Scan. In the next screen, the path should be Settings | Wifi | Scan. Action and Paths are CamelCased. - the panel (the top bar) should be removed in all screens if we are in windowed mode imho, because you now get two rows of similar icons. Ergo, there can be nothing essential in Paroli's panel that's not in the Illume panel. And hence, you need a different button to close a paroli app (like msgs) when you are not in full screen - because the clock should not be here. In fact, it should look like a close button: if you tap around Illume, you will find the chooser is still hanging around and not responding until you close the other screen. So that's what the funny circle is in the 3rd image at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:BAB-List-default-1.0.png , a 'close button'. I also think the main screen, the launcher, should indicate it's waiting for the other app to quit. It would not harm if you are in fullscreen (since you won't see it) and it would be very beneficial in windowed mode. I have a screenshot of that, here .. - If you look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Bab-1.2-3screens.png you'll see there are more ideas - and I have still more on paper. Most of them are optional. But I understand, doing something like what I sketched in the Launcher requires changing the whole way it works (in Python), not just changing edje files :-| The most important thing is, I think, I differentiate between primary and secondary options: The screen is divided in lines. Each line can only have one primary, big, white, option. If you click it, the background color of the whole line quickly hilites before the screen changes. A line can have several secondary (small, grey, lowercased) options. If you click it, only the font color quickly switches before the screen changes. I think this differentation is usefull, as it gives a user an idea about the default action - go forward - and several sideoptions - delete that thing, go back - without visually cluttering the screen. Anyway .. that's a lot of text. Maybe I should get into edje. Or maybe I should get XULRunner to work on my phone :-D $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
Hi I'm keeping a list of a few optimisations i can think of; i'll fill it over the next few days; .. and i'll add them as a 'design concept', if that seems appropriate. I haven't really done that; but instead, I've been translating my 'few optimisations' into a 'few mockups' and added them here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Paroli-themes .. but it was a bit confusing to do that. I assume someone (Mirko?) is still leading on development of paroli. And I assume something like this - simply optimizing the default ui - has been in someones agenda already. Ofcourse, I could just start making my own edje files. But if another, also improved, paroli is coming along, why would I. And I don't like edje very much from the looks of it. Unless, ofcourse, someone finds this very interesting. In which case I might have a few spare evenings to do some more. Otherwise, I might still make a text version of the 'few optimisations' I could think of, anyway. $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: a new keyboard - discuss and critique
Hi apparently, triangular buttons produce less errors. http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/06/02/crocodile_keyboard/ thedifference is that if you are not more accurate u get zero key press as opposed to the one you wanted when its a square. then you aways get a press - the question is - are you so far off that u pressed the wrong key. exactly. but with this keyboard you can not accidently hit the G when you meant the F, unless you're very drunk. You can ofcourse hit dead space, but that's not so bad, you just tilt your finger until it hits. Ofcourse, dead space should really be dead, no action. To hit both the V and the B, you have to stick a very thick finger right in the middle of dead space. With square keys, you can hardly avoid it. There is lots of space wasted. Why hasn't he put the key lines together inverted to each other? huh ? that would defeat the purpose. if you simply expanded each key to just fill the rectangular region it ocupies (which it effectively does as that space is unused and dead) hen you get a no less accurate keyboard than what he as, but somewhere were u are MORE likely to actually hit a key as opposed to hit nothing. and equally more likely to hit the wrong one, since that space is filled up too. hitting no key is not so bad. hitting the wrong one is annoying. I believe in it.. oh .. patents ? .. skip .. one good idea lost for humanity. $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: a new keyboard - discuss and critique
Hi It's sad that this community couldn't even manage to build a decent keyboard for the freerunner within one year. I did try the list of keyboards last year and couldnt live with them. But the current one - shipping with om2009 - is pretty good. Even with fingers. So, there's been progress.. What keyboard is it anyway ? Is it listed here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Keyboard_Debate ? thanks, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: a new keyboard - discuss and critique
Hi But the current one - shipping with om2009 - is pretty good. .. What keyboard is it anyway ? Is it listed here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Keyboard_Debate ? It's the Illume one. It's Rasters ? Good job. It works. thanks, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Om2009] a community effort
Hi After I installed it, I used myself as a case study for a first time dummy user of om2009. As usual, I write down every question I encounter in real time, optionally with some emoticons; later, I add the actions I took in response to those questions and even later some thoughts to improve the process. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Pike/OM2009_first_run It's interesting to see I am getting more and more frustrated after question #9 .. about one hour after playing with the phone and reading docs. All in all, it wasn't a 100% pleasant experience yet. I'm proud I hurdled myself through sofar :-) Please mail on to the list for everyone to see. This way we all can learn share the experiences! It may not be so interesting for most people on the list. I am mainly interested in the user process here - not in core technical issues .. so .. I've put it on the wiki. $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Om2009] a community effort
Hi http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Pike/OM2009_first_run Well, about first question - don't use u-boot, try Qi, and it will boot on short click :P oh great - and i hadn't even noticed :-D qi is going to be the default bootloader - so i removed the question. kewl, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om2009 testing release 4
Hi In addition to this, in some situations one could add to 0.5s: 'user presses AUX again since there was no response when he first pressed it' happens to me all the time :-) This is an issue happening in several places in paroli. The interface is very honest in the sense that it only shows what actually happened. Of course this means that changes are visible a bit later than in other interfaces. Should this paradigm be changed? After I read this about 2 days ago, I've been thinking about it and the conclusion is that yes, I think it should be changed. reading it very literally, I don't. I think paroli should honestly show what is happening, not what is supposed to happen; but that includes receiving a ui event or starting a process. But as soon as Paroli everything behind it are stable enough that we can trust that clicking a button does what we want it to do, I think the UI should make the change as soon as possible and do the actual work ASAP after this. No machine will ever be that stable - not if you spill a beer over it, drop it from the stairs or accidentally zap half the filesystem. Even then, I'd like to be able to trust the ui to tell me whats really going on, not what it thinks should be going on. Concerning this, I'd like to see a 'busy' light/icon/something to point out that work is being done, wait until it's finished before you try anything else. The icon would be shown when the processor load is 90% or more. Good idea; sounds like macs 'colored ball cursor'. But it doesn't replace the watch cursor - saying we received your request, now please wait. Paroli doesnt have a cursor, but it could have an applet that applications can call, I guess ? Something like a watch ? start-watch; do stuff; stop-watch. The 'watch' (I imagine a rotating circle aka adobe flash loader) could turn into a busyball when the cpu reaches 90%, too. And it could also indicate a failure. I also like the idea of a buzz when an error occures. The buzz feels very erroneous. These things would only apply to paroli, though. I think lower levels could give some more feedback, too. Eg, the aux and power buttons send a dbus signal every second they are pressed, but that's counterintuitive to me - if it would flash or buzz every second too, i might be inclined to wait - and count. And even lower, when booting the phone, and during the boot process, there's not enough feedback for me. I never feel I can trust the thing. But maybe that's me :-) $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
Hi I'm sure there are professional designers and user experts around who could use some of the skills they have and this way also help OM: by making more people interested in using developing Paroli (at least I first check the 'Screenshots' page of a new F/LOSS app I find and often judge based on what I see :) Which is exactly what made me move to om2009... the screenshots of Paroli. Paroli is very PRETTY imho, just being as minimal as it is. It counters iphones graphical abundance very well, yet still being comparibly stylish. It counters androids mediocre desktop-emulation, yet being very featurefull (optionally). Among the wishlist I see - paroli polished UI and I see ideas on the mailinglist to bring all sorts of features to paroli. Is that the intention for om2009 too - to ship Paroli fancier ? I mean, is what I'm looking at a 'barebones product' designwise ? Community-driven design is almost a contradiction in term. Most opensource products are just damn ugly. A designer requires some authority to create a consistent, stylish end product, and authority means limitations on the developers. I remember mails about the 'wrench' icon in om2008 .. :-) If anyone, I would just have a typographer look at Paroli shortly, to make it pixelperfect; an interaction designer to top off some usability issues, and to give the end user some play, allow him to change fonts, colors and background - nothing more. Avoid application icons. I saw some sliding things in Paroli I got the idea of menu that'd be kind of mesh where you start in the middle and then it'd show where the nodes would take you and you'd slide to that direction to get to that menu and then you'd see the options there and so on.. That would be great .. as a selectable thing. But I would smile and return to the default Paroli after playing around, probably :-) I'm keeping a list of a few optimisations i can think of; i'll fill it over the next few days; but they're really minor, mostly just a matter of finetuning edje files, probably. I really respect the work that Mirko is doing with Paroli. Second that ! Great job ! thanks, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
Hi I'm keeping a list of a few optimisations i can think of; i'll fill it over the next few days; .. and i'll add them to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Paroli-themes as a 'design concept', if that seems appropriate. $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Om2009] a community effort
Hi How can you help? OK, I am inclined to try that. So I've installed om2009/paroli without major problems, now. This is the distro to ship on new hardware, correct ? The first impressions are important then - I do remember 'unpacking my openmoko' - the wrapper of the black cardboard box being just as green as the progress bar when first booting the phone, etc. It was pleasant and pretty. So I've used myself as a use-case scenario and wrote down step by step what happened to me as a 'new user of om2009' - my first impressions and the hurdles I encountered. If anyone is interested, I can mail it offlist - or put it on the wiki ? $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
Hi I saw at least one person say that the current paroli UI in OM2009 is good, whereas I think it's at best kinda boring... Boring ? :-) It's a bold statement ! It's just what you need to stand out. But ofcourse, I'm all for themes and skins, too. And re: community design being bad - that's why I'm trying to find the professionals who have the skills to do it.. I guess one can't say that whatever a community does will fail: it must sometimes also succeed, I believe :) I didnt mean to say 'opensource people are bad designers', but that designing in a opensource world is harder. Good design is consistent up to very extreme detail, and its subjective, too. That's a lot easier if someone in some team has the position to bully other people around ... The old 'wrench' issue is a good example of that http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1863 When I first saw paroli, it struck me. That's one way to avoid the problem. Minimalism. That's easier to be consistent, at least. 2$c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GSM Firmware upgrade
Hi Try again: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM/Flashing And if not happy, feel free to make it clearer, after all, it's a wiki... That's pretty perfect. It got me going (and with me, I hope, a new base layer of the pyramid shaped userbase of openmoko). Paul Ferster - sorry I directed myself to you off-list; I took it from your message you were holding some responsibility for those pages. I just realize now the wiki is *really* a wiki as they are supposed to be, and often aren't :-) I'll add my comments to the Talk pages then. After all, not understanding the documentation is probably my expertise :-) And thanks for your considerate and patient response. yay - D O N E thanks, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Om2009] a community effort
Hi How can you help? OK, I am inclined to try that. Installations instructions say http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om2009 If you have not upgraded the GSM firmware do that too but it doesnt say which version of firmware needs upgrading, or any way to check your current firmware version, neither on the Flashing page; The instructions on the Flashing page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM/Flashing sound very scary, and I am not inclined to do that yet. Is upgrading the frimware required to install 2009/testing ? My hardware has been fine using QTExtended. thanks, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Om2009] a community effort
Hi Is upgrading the firmware required to install 2009/testing ? No, updating the firmware will give you a more stable system but it is not a must. And I assume I can do it later, when its even more monkeyfriendly. Don't worry, flashing is safe. It's a scary read. And I don't have a uSD card reader in my mac. OK, next question - I assume Qi has to be flashed first, is that correct ? It is last on the list at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om2009. And after flashing Qi, I can continue with the normal procedure ? Sorry for the obvious questions, but you asked for it :-D thanks, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
wifi shelf gadget
Hi what exactly is it that makes the wifi icon show up in the shelf gadgets ? whatever I try, wifi won't seem to work if the icon is not showing. /etc/init.d/networking restart ;doesn't help ifdown eth0; ifup eth0; doesn't help udhcpc; doesn't help but the latter two options have success when the icon is showing (which may be caused by something else that's being changed by the application that also shows the icon, ofcourse). in any case, when I ever get to write a script that works properly, i want to show the icon, as well :-) how would I do that ? curious, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: wifi shelf gadget
Hi thanks for the answer. You probably want to be looking at the Settings program to see what happens when wifi is switched on/off there (as that's actually switching the wifi chip on or off). Aha. Indeed, going to Settings/WIFI is the only way to make the icon appear that I know sofar. I'm confused why this is not mentioned anywhere - on my FR, not even MOFI will do anything before I 'wake up the wifi chip' (by going to Settings/WIFI). It seems as if other users just always have their WIFI on ? This comment [1] seems to suggest the same. Not here, it's off by default. [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:Neo_FreeRunner_Wifi#disabling_wifi_on_startup strange, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Hi The reason I want a physical keyboard is because I much prefer a keyboard with tactile feedback - you can feel the button, and you can feel it click down when you press it. With the risk of being completely OT - you all know that the QWERTY keyboard was designed for the specific purpose of not having the hammers of the typewriter clash if you type too fast ? There's nothing very ergonomical about them. In that perspective, qwerty layouts have been legacy since the 70s. We have new tools, now we need new ways of writing. I'm very curious how quikwriting will evolve, or gestures ... my vote: QWO around the corners of the screen. typing input changes focus to qwo, so you can scratch all over the screen, and when you're done focus returns to the application. no screen estate lost :-) ehm, make that GTA09. $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
