On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There is a long history on the internet of folks using aliases for any
of a variety of reasons and now a jury has ruled that's illegal and a
misdemeanor.
Some of us are not as tough as you and would find a year in jail
Where would you draw the line? Suppose someone wanted to sue civilly for
misrepresentation on a blind date arranged via the internet? Do you want
adults who have sexually suggestive chats with underage teenagers to be
traced and arrested, even if (or prior to) engaging in any actual behavior
or
It also depends on whether the alias is clearly an alias or an attempt to
defraud. I like to be slightly anonymous on usenet and in forums. There
is a whole class of people who have been aliases there whole posting
careers.
Unfortunately this is an assumption without merit. It's violating
There is a long history on the internet of folks using aliases for any
of a variety of reasons and now a jury has ruled that's illegal and a
misdemeanor.
Some of us are not as tough as you and would find a year in jail to be an
unpleasant experience. Imagine how the other inmates would react
Some of us are not as tough as you and would find a year in jail to be an
unpleasant experience. Imagine how the other inmates would react to your
answer to What you in for?
Figure there are 45k in users on freenode, more on EFnet...half of those
aren't who they say they are. They'll need to
For a sentence that short in many localities they would be housed
locally and you would be surprised at what all those folks are in for.
Stewart
At 08:57 AM 12/4/2008, you wrote:
Some of us are not as tough as you and would find a year in jail to be an
unpleasant experience. Imagine how the
Yes, but isn't the point that the crime is misrepresenting yourself for
the purpose of committing a crime ... not just misrepresenting yourself?
Kind of like the RICO act thingee..
They aren't going to prosecute me ... db dbota ... unless its my
representation of myself as db is the thing
Yes, but isn't the point that the crime is misrepresenting yourself for the
purpose of committing a crime ... not just misrepresenting yourself?
Nope, she was convicted of a hoax, there was no finding of maliciousness
and that means that anyone on here not using his or her real name could
be
You are inviting a slippery slope here. Look, if we wish to protect
children from cyber bullying, then enact sensible, tailored laws to address
this. To try to address this on some other unrelated grounds like
misrepresentation or violation of the TOS is to dangerously mix apples and
oranges.
I agree with almost everything you say but one of the real problems
with our legal system is that common sense is thrown out the window
and everything gets decided on legal premise and precedent.
Look at a lot of legal rulings and you will see they have nothing to
do with Common Sense.
From a legal standpoint, suicide is a crime in most jurisdictions
(the purpose is really to give the police the power to detain someone
who attempts it). So assisting/abetting in a suicide is also considered
a crime (which is why Kavorkian went to jail). But it is up to the
prosecutor to
Recent GGUYS example: While it may seem that peer to peer sharing of
pirated movies is a victim-less win-win free Xmas gift type of thing, it
isn't if you look more deeply at the situation. Not only are the
artists defrauded of their means of income but fellow users of
broadband often can't
You have some good points there Tom, but the behavior the woman
showed was predatory behavior. (We are talking adult versus child
here, not adult versus adult)
How about such transactions between greedy corporations (some who are
acknowledged predatory monopolists) and individuals and small
Yes, and a good thing too that it was determined to be a crime.
Just because the internet is a new frontier does not mean crime and
injustice isn't perpetrated by its use.
To the contrary. The internet is just a new medium for human beings to
use for age old purposes (information,
No idea why you are painting cable companies as if they are alone in this.
DSL shouldn't even be sold anymore, the tech is too old. People might bring
up FIOS but then this tech is barely visible considering how many users have
access to it. And every major ISP is censoring in one way or
You did not hear me saying that they are innocent did you?
Our legal system is mainly set up for individual crime against
individual or state. When it comes down to corporations it tends to
get a lot muddier and the legal system does not seem to know how to
deal with it.
Now if I were
To rephrase what Martin Gecko said many years ago. Greed is not good!!!
Stewart
At 09:25 AM 12/2/2008, you wrote:
Cable isn't the culprit here, it's every ISP out there that's been lying to
their customers for years.
Mike
Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Prince of Peace
Full Disclosure:
1) My photograph listed in the CGuys.com location map was captured on
another day. I have changed slightly every day since.
2) My spelling and grammer are not great. My spelling and grammer checker
should be creditied for what you read.
3) WalMart is evil. (Hmmm..
I hope this doesn't start a trend here. I really would hate to find
out after all this time that Tom has a secret shrine of Bill Gates at
home :)
Richard P.
Full Disclosure:
1) My photograph listed in the CGuys.com location map was captured on
another day. I have changed slightly every
db
Yes, and a good thing too that it was determined to
be a crime.
Just because the internet is a new frontier does not
mean crime and injustice isn't perpetrated by its use.
To the contrary. The internet is just a new medium
for human beings to use for age old purposes
(information,
Or maybe he really uses a PC when no one is looking; one with a Bill Gates
screensaver.
Randall
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 12:42 PM, Richard P. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I hope this doesn't start a trend here. I really would hate to find
out after all this time that Tom has a secret shrine of Bill
Lying on line *with malicious intent to inflict harm via fraudulent
means* with resultant actual harm inflicted is not a thought crime.
It is, and a jury agreed, an actual crime.
Matthew
On Dec 1, 2008, at 5:47 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote:
Wow, this even tops the DMCA's thought crimes...
On Dec 1, 2008, at 6:28 PM, Matthew Taylor wrote:
Lying on line *with malicious intent to inflict harm via fraudulent
means* with resultant actual harm inflicted is not a thought crime.
It is, and a jury agreed, an actual crime.
Would an exaggeration about how much a person weighs or how
Would an exaggeration about how much a person weighs or how tall or
short a person is be sufficient for prosecution? What the heck would
the guidelines be? Lying, in and of itself, is not generally
considered to be a crime. People tell lies all the time.
Seems clear to me.
Lying on
From what I've become to understand, lying to a federal investigator
is a crime. I don't necessarily agree with this, but isn't it how
Martha was convicted?
Jeff M
On Dec 1, 2008, at 3:51 PM, Steve Rigby wrote:
On Dec 1, 2008, at 6:28 PM, Matthew Taylor wrote:
Lying on line *with
The DMCA has nothing on the latvians.
* DECEMBER 1, 2008, 4:44 P.M. ET
How to Combat a Banking Crisis: First, Round Up the Pessimists
Latvian Agents Detain a Gloomy Economist; 'It Is a Form of Deterrence'
By ANDREW HIGGINS
RIGA, Latvia -- Hammered by economic woe, this former Soviet
Would an exaggeration about how much a person weighs or how tall or
short a person is be sufficient for prosecution? What the heck would
the guidelines be? Lying, in and of itself, is not generally
considered to be a crime. People tell lies all the time.
True, lying, in and of itself, is
I understand everyone is poking fun at this web sites concern but
what I find most disturbing is that everyone forgets what this was all about.
A woman, adult, used myspace to manipulate and persecute a young girl
to the point where she committed suicide.
This woman's intent was the deepest
Totally agree!
Unfortunately the most she'll probably get is a few months in jail
(suspended) and maybe a small fine. Realistically she'll probably have
to move. I can't imagine staying in that community and hope for any
type of normal life.
Jeff M
On Dec 1, 2008, at 5:50 PM,
Yes but she gets that chance the other mother will never be able to
move on from her loss.
Stewart
At 08:02 PM 12/1/2008, you wrote:
Totally agree!
Unfortunately the most she'll probably get is a few months in jail
(suspended) and maybe a small fine. Realistically she'll
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 8:50 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I understand everyone is poking fun at this web sites concern but what I
find most disturbing is that everyone forgets what this was all about.
A woman, adult, used myspace to manipulate and persecute a young girl
I understand everyone is poking fun at this web sites concern but
what I find most disturbing is that everyone forgets what this was all about.
1) I'm not poking any fun.
2) It is not just this web site's concern. You can read similar is Ars
and the NY Times.
3) Some very bad laws were passed
Agree. I would have been the lone holdout on the jury. I'm not sure
what type of criminal intent could have been successfully charged, but
my gut tells me she did something very, very wrong and is guilty for
pushing a susceptible teen to suicide. But I'm not a lawyer and don't
know how to
You have some good points there Tom, but the behavior the woman
showed was predatory behavior. (We are talking adult versus child
here, not adult versus adult)
That is the same reason people get prosecuted for sexual harassment,
clergy get defrocked for sexual relations with members and all
On Dec 1, 2008, at 8:50 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
That is what this whole trial was about. I think they could care
less if someone wanted to make themselves look better to someone
else. But if someone wanted to use Myspace to harass and injure
someone else, it should be a crime.
According to the article the prosecutor went this route because there are no
cyber-bullying laws. Perhaps there should be, but to turn any sort of
violations of website terms of service agreements into crimes is a) not the
way to deal with this particularly heinous and hopefully unusual situation
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