Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
That is not logical. The ad says if you are on a budget. So if I am not on a budget, it says nothing to me. This is not mathematical logical; it is human nature. Advertising pays attention to human nature. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Yes, that is true. What I am seeing, that is not in the ad, is the statement _Only_ if you are on a tight budget would you want to buy hardware with an MS operating system. What I do see is _If_ you are on a tight budget, etc Didn't you take logic in some math course where you learned the differences between A if B, A only if B, A if and only if B? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
That is not logical. The ad says if you are on a budget. So if I am not on a budget, it says nothing to me. This is not mathematical logical; it is human nature. Advertising pays attention to human nature. Why are you insisting that a single ad has to cover all possible reasons to do something? If a car commercial (I know how you love car analogies) talks about gas mileage, does that imply that the only reason to buy the car is that it gets good mileage? Obviously it does not. It's just the subject of that particular ad. This particular ad is for people who are on a budget; the next one could be entirely different. Note that the campaign title is Laptop Hunters (plural), not Laptop Hunter. Presumably there will be more than one; and, as I already mentioned (and you seem to have ignored), there are other MS ads currently running that have nothing to do with budgets. Your assertion makes no sense at all. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
What other ads does MS have out touting their OS? Do they tout anything else? Advertisements build brand; MS seems to be going for the Wal-Mart image in this one. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Why are you insisting that a single ad has to cover all possible reasons to do something? If a car commercial (I know how you love car analogies) talks about gas mileage, does that imply that the only reason to buy the car is that it gets good mileage? Obviously it does not. It's just the subject of that particular ad. This particular ad is for people who are on a budget; the next one could be entirely different. Note that the campaign title is Laptop Hunters (plural), not Laptop Hunter. Presumably there will be more than one; and, as I already mentioned (and you seem to have ignored), there are other MS ads currently running that have nothing to do with budgets. Your assertion makes no sense at all. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
What other ads does MS have out touting their OS? Do they tout anything else? I already answered this. They currently have several ads with little kids showing how easy and quick it is to do stuff like making panoramas and enhancing/mailing pictures. They just finished the I'm a PC series. You may or may not like these, and they may or may not be very good ads, but they disprove your assertion. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
It certainly fortifies and rallies the WfBs to spout nonsense! Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Do you hear that sound? It's the sound of a million rending souls in the snobosphere. Please, Microsoft, make many, many more of these commercials. It's like a dog whistle for pretension. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
You got it. The ad says, if you are on a budget. You are correct that it says nothing about if you are not on a budget, therefore nothing about the converse. Your placement of the ONLY at the start of the sentence claims the converse. That is why I am correcting your statement. It does not say Only if you are on a tight budget, etc. Again, I am only addressing logical statements (as a long ago math teacher) and nothing about the value of MA or Apple products. Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: That is not logical. The ad says if you are on a budget. So if I am not on a budget, it says nothing to me. This is not mathematical logical; it is human nature. Advertising pays attention to human nature. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Yes, that is true. What I am seeing, that is not in the ad, is the statement _Only_ if you are on a tight budget would you want to buy hardware with an MS operating system. What I do see is _If_ you are on a tight budget, etc Didn't you take logic in some math course where you learned the differences between A if B, A only if B, A if and only if B? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
That is fine, but when did advertising start using linear logical proofs? I was referring to human nature, so when an ad caters to women, I stop paying attention because I'm not female. Doesn't apply to me; only women. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- You got it. The ad says, if you are on a budget. You are correct that it says nothing about if you are not on a budget, therefore nothing about the converse. Your placement of the ONLY at the start of the sentence claims the converse. That is why I am correcting your statement. It does not say Only if you are on a tight budget, etc. Again, I am only addressing logical statements (as a long ago math teacher) and nothing about the value of MA or Apple products. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
That is fine, but when did advertising start using linear logical proofs? This has dragged on way too long, but the answer is, When you claim that MS is telling us the only reason to buy PCs is that they're cheap. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Steve at Verizon stevet...@verizon.net wrote: Actually, MS is in no way touting their operating system in this commercial, which is aimed at an audience which is indifferent to operating systems (hard to believe for this newsgroup there are so many of them out there) and are just looking for an inexpensive laptop. I saw the ad only once, but do not remember any discussion of Windows or how great it isg. There is the MS logo prominently displayed three times in the ad, and Windows is also displayed. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
That is called branding. When was the last time you watched a Movie? I mean really closely. Notice how many different brands are noticeable either with the characters using them or the Logo being front and center. (Bond Movies are notorious for this.) Companies pay big monies to have their logo plastered in a movie and be identified with something. Yes even Apple does this too. MS was touting that it is a bargain in this time of tight monies. It's logo being plastered all over the ad is what they aimed at. When you think saving money think MS. Actually it was a good marketing approach in this time of tight monies. Stewart At 10:27 AM 4/1/2009, you wrote: On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Steve at Verizon stevet...@verizon.net wrote: Actually, MS is in no way touting their operating system in this commercial, which is aimed at an audience which is indifferent to operating systems (hard to believe for this newsgroup there are so many of them out there) and are just looking for an inexpensive laptop. I saw the ad only once, but do not remember any discussion of Windows or how great it isg. There is the MS logo prominently displayed three times in the ad, and Windows is also displayed. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Again, I agree with you. If you quickly recognized that the ad was for those who wanted a laptop and were on a budget, and you weren't, then you rightly should have tuned it out. Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: That is fine, but when did advertising start using linear logical proofs? I was referring to human nature, so when an ad caters to women, I stop paying attention because I'm not female. Doesn't apply to me; only women. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- You got it. The ad says, if you are on a budget. You are correct that it says nothing about if you are not on a budget, therefore nothing about the converse. Your placement of the ONLY at the start of the sentence claims the converse. That is why I am correcting your statement. It does not say Only if you are on a tight budget, etc. Again, I am only addressing logical statements (as a long ago math teacher) and nothing about the value of MA or Apple products. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
You're surprised that the sponsor of an ad would tell you who he is and what his product is? I interpret the meaning of touting as telling you what is so great about it, not just flashing a product name. I repeat, for the nth time, MS is not directly selling Windows here. They are indirectly, by convincing you to buy a PC laptop. Certainly, you are aware that MS earns almost all of its revenue from Windows on preinstalled PCs, not from folks who say, Gee, I like the looks of that there Vista; I think I will go out and by me a copy to upgrade my XP (THOSE are your MS Fanboys) And, as I said before, this ad is targeted at people who don't give a damn about what OS comes with the machine or are complacent about getting yet another Windows PC. It's Apple's job to convince them otherwise. And their I'm a PC are very effective. phartz...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Steve at Verizon stevet...@verizon.net wrote: Actually, MS is in no way touting their operating system in this commercial, which is aimed at an audience which is indifferent to operating systems (hard to believe for this newsgroup there are so many of them out there) and are just looking for an inexpensive laptop. I saw the ad only once, but do not remember any discussion of Windows or how great it isg. There is the MS logo prominently displayed three times in the ad, and Windows is also displayed. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net wrote: That is called branding. When was the last time you watched a Movie? I mean really closely. Notice how many different brands are noticeable either with the characters using them or the Logo being front and center. (Bond Movies are notorious for this.) Companies pay big monies to have their logo plastered in a movie and be identified with something. Yes even Apple does this too. Apple computers are all over the place in TV police/crime dramas. Product placement. Federal officials are constantly shown staring at Macintosh computer screens. Their presence in these shows always amuses me because if there is one brand of computer that is, in reality, virtually non-existent in government work, especially law enforcement, it is Apple. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Next thing you will tell me is that Realty TV is real! :-) Stewart At 11:49 AM 4/1/2009, you wrote: Apple computers are all over the place in TV police/crime dramas. Product placement. Federal officials are constantly shown staring at Macintosh computer screens. Their presence in these shows always amuses me because if there is one brand of computer that is, in reality, virtually non-existent in government work, especially law enforcement, it is Apple. Steve Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Apple computers are all over the place in TV police/crime dramas. Product placement. Federal officials are constantly shown staring at Macintosh computer screens. Their presence in these shows always amuses me because if there is one brand of computer that is, in reality, virtually non-existent in government work, especially law enforcement, it is Apple. '24' is an exception to this, at least in some cases (I don't watch it much). If you look at their big screen surveillance-type displays you'll see a Vista task bar at the bottom. Not sure if that counts as a paid product placement, though. It's probably too subtle for MS to have paid for it. I was amused once to spot the icon of a program that I wrote a lot of. The company that owns the product joked that they were going to add an As Seen on '24' graphic to the product web site. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Next thing you will tell me is that Realty TV is real! :-) Realty TV is real, but reality TV isn't. :) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
I may have misspelled, but Realty TV is not very real either!! :-) Stewart At 01:10 PM 4/1/2009, you wrote: Next thing you will tell me is that Realty TV is real! :-) Realty TV is real, but reality TV isn't. :) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Not sure how this got to be anything not a Mac is scum. I was responding to criticism that MS does not sell hardware, but MS was showing old hardware with their OS as cheaper than Apple's. Their cheaper ad requires comparing bottom of the barrel hardware to Apple's. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Ah, now we get to it...anyone not running Apple hardware is, let me get this right...scum sucking bottom feeders, or is it anyone not running Apple hardware *likes* scum sucking bottom feeder hardware? I can't tell exactly how you were insulting anyone without macs. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
MS was showing old hardware with their OS as cheaper than Apple's. Still clinging to this myth? I guess it's as comforting to McFans as a pair of fuzzy slippers, but, as was shown here long ago, the HP in question is not even two months old. Their cheaper ad requires comparing bottom of the barrel hardware to Apple's. No. Once again, their ad merely points out that if you need a portable machine on a budget, you can get a PC but you can't get a Mac because no such box exists. This is a very real-world situation, no matter how many times you guys cry foul. I will again ask the question that no one answers: Why is there no Apple laptop for those on a budget? It's clearly not impossible to build such a box, so there has to be some other reason. What is it? Too many Mac-owning busboys and homeless people (to use Tom's characterization of typical PC owners) would ruin the meticulously crafted image? If everyone could buy a Mac, the brand would cease to be cool? What is the reason? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
My company laptop is an HP model, maybe six months old now, so I do know a bit about their cheaper models. It has a zippy 5400 RPM 80 GB hard drive. The laptop is heavy, although lighter than its IBM predecessor, so I only schlep it around if I must take it home. One thing I have found to be consistent with companies selling Windows is a general fear not to be the cheapest; a race to the bottom, with a few higher-priced models (not including the gamer market here, as it doesn't apply). Most Windows models have cheaper components than Apple's models (of course, not all). As Apple seems to be rare among these companies in that it is growing its market share, why would they want to join the race to the bottom by becoming a commodity? To lose their brand value: good and reliable hardware, productivity software included with a carefully designed and tested OS, all well-supported with best-rated tech-support? I don't care what the budget buyer's want; I want a good laptop computer, and Apple has models that appeal to that. I am over 50, so I don't care about looking cool. But I can appreciate cool hardware and software, and Apple can provide that. Nor do I think people with windows laptops are not cool because of that fact. Criticizing MS for encouraging the chase-to-the-bottom hardware models as their ad campaign against Apple is not being a snob. I am criticizing them for not competing on value against Apple: What do they do better than Apple - both make software, but MS does not make hardware. So why the hell would I want MS software over Apple's? They can't seem to explain that in their marketing. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- MS was showing old hardware with their OS as cheaper than Apple's. Still clinging to this myth? I guess it's as comforting to McFans as a pair of fuzzy slippers, but, as was shown here long ago, the HP in question is not even two months old. Their cheaper ad requires comparing bottom of the barrel hardware to Apple's. No. Once again, their ad merely points out that if you need a portable machine on a budget, you can get a PC but you can't get a Mac because no such box exists. This is a very real-world situation, no matter how many times you guys cry foul. I will again ask the question that no one answers: Why is there no Apple laptop for those on a budget? It's clearly not impossible to build such a box, so there has to be some other reason. What is it? Too many Mac-owning busboys and homeless people (to use Tom's characterization of typical PC owners) would ruin the meticulously crafted image? If everyone could buy a Mac, the brand would cease to be cool? What is the reason? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
I don't care what the budget buyer's want; I want a good laptop computer, and Apple has models that appeal to that. Well, there ya go. The fact that budget buyers exist and are not served by Apple is sorta the whole point, isn't it? Whether you care about them or not? FYI, the budget buyers don't care what you want, either. One thing they do know is that they can't have a Mac laptop even if that's what they really want. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
I don't care what the budget buyer's want; I want a good laptop computer, and Apple has models that appeal to that. I am over 50, so I don't care about looking cool. But I can appreciate cool hardware and software, and Apple can provide that. Nor do I think people with windows laptops are not cool because of that fact. There's nothing wrong with wanting the best, especially if you can afford it. I didn't see any criticism of that and I know I have no problem with that. But when you start harping about how the riff-raff are allowed to play on the same golf course that you do, you out yourself as an elitist snob. Spin it any way you want, but all I hear now is Thurston Howell III. The rest of the whiners about the commercial made the Apple community look to be a pipsqueak punk who's been insulting and harassing you all the school year and when you finally had enough, turn around and belt him a good one, he runs home crying to mommy. Unfortunately, for every reasonable Mac user like E. Riley or Steve, there are 4 or 5 zealots who just don't know when to keep their trap shut. I had no opinion about Macs before I came on this list over a decade ago, but exposure here and elsewhere to the MacZealots has given me a very negative perception about Apple; it almost qualifies as visceral. I seriously doubt that I will ever buy a Mac. Which is fine by me; PCs and Windows meet all of my needs. One of these days I'll get around to installing Ubuntu on my laptop. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
So, assuming this ad is successful, the only reason to buy a Windows computer is because you're on budget. Wow, how far does MS expect to get with that as their brand? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- I don't care what the budget buyer's want; I want a good laptop computer, and Apple has models that appeal to that. Well, there ya go. The fact that budget buyers exist and are not served by Apple is sorta the whole point, isn't it? Whether you care about them or not? FYI, the budget buyers don't care what you want, either. One thing they do know is that they can't have a Mac laptop even if that's what they really want. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
In this day and economic climate pretty far. Have you noticed the shift in tone and focus of commercials in the past 6 months? Green, Saves Money, Makes good Economic sense, etc. etc. That is what advertising is all about, appeal to the current consumer orientation. If they really wanted to make a hit commercial, claim it would take money out of the pocket of a Wall Street banker. That would really sell. :-) Stewart At 08:51 AM 3/31/2009, you wrote: So, assuming this ad is successful, the only reason to buy a Windows computer is because you're on budget. Wow, how far does MS expect to get with that as their brand? Thank you, Mark Snyder Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Different definition of budget. When you as an adult buy a pair of shoes, do you buy the cheap ones that will wear out in a year or two, or good quality ones that with care will last a decade or more? When you buy a power tool that you plan to use a lot do you buy a Walmart special that will die with heavy use or spend more to get a solid tool that will outlast you (I still have some of my father's power tools that work great)? Apple does not choose to build laptops good for only a year or two. My wife's ibook circa 2004 is still going strong as is my 2006 Macbook Pro. At work they have to cycle out their Dell laptops every two years - cheaper than keeping them in repair. You can pay a little more up front to save big in the long run, or you can pay less up front at a long term cost. Understand the difference? Matthew On Mar 31, 2009, at 7:30 AM, Chris Dunford wrote: I will again ask the question that no one answers: Why is there no Apple laptop for those on a budget? It's clearly not impossible to build such a box, so there has to be some other reason. What is it? Too many Mac- owning busboys and homeless people (to use Tom's characterization of typical PC owners) would ruin the meticulously crafted image? If everyone could buy a Mac, the brand would cease to be cool? What is the reason? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
You are defining your own criteria. I do have a budget on shoes. I will not pay more than $70.00 for a pair of shoes. I need a pair of shoes that are comfortable, look nice, will wear well, and DO NOT HURT MY FEET! I will look and look and look until I find that pair of shoes that meats all that above criteria. I do not buy my shoes in department stores, I cannot afford them. I instead go to the discounters who have what I need. They last me as well as I can expect them to last. You cant resole rubber soles. I upgrade my laptops as needed. Hard drives, memory etc. I can keep a laptop for about 4 years, but I use it heavily. BY the way I would not have bought an HP laptop. I would have bought a Dell instead. Stewart At 09:06 AM 3/31/2009, you wrote: Different definition of budget. When you as an adult buy a pair of shoes, do you buy the cheap ones that will wear out in a year or two, or good quality ones that with care will last a decade or more? When you buy a power tool that you plan to use a lot do you buy a Walmart special that will die with heavy use or spend more to get a solid tool that will outlast you (I still have some of my father's power tools that work great)? Apple does not choose to build laptops good for only a year or two. My wife's ibook circa 2004 is still going strong as is my 2006 Macbook Pro. At work they have to cycle out their Dell laptops every two years - cheaper than keeping them in repair. You can pay a little more up front to save big in the long run, or you can pay less up front at a long term cost. Understand the difference? Matthew Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Faulty logic. The statement: If you are on a budget, you buy a PC laptop is not equivalent to the statement Only if you are on a budget, you buy a PC laptop Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: So, assuming this ad is successful, the only reason to buy a Windows computer is because you're on budget. Wow, how far does MS expect to get with that as their brand? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- I don't care what the budget buyer's want; I want a good laptop computer, and Apple has models that appeal to that. Well, there ya go. The fact that budget buyers exist and are not served by Apple is sorta the whole point, isn't it? Whether you care about them or not? FYI, the budget buyers don't care what you want, either. One thing they do know is that they can't have a Mac laptop even if that's what they really want. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Jeff, I do use _both_ W XP and OS X daily. I never called windows users riff-raff. You seem to want to drag that in. I am not whining about MS commercial, just criticizing it. Don't buy a Mac, but at least try one before you whimper about Mac fans or get out-raged at criticism of MS. Might just tone down your rhetoric a little. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- There's nothing wrong with wanting the best, especially if you can afford it. I didn't see any criticism of that and I know I have no problem with that. But when you start harping about how the riff-raff are allowed to play on the same golf course that you do, you out yourself as an elitist snob. Spin it any way you want, but all I hear now is Thurston Howell III. The rest of the whiners about the commercial made the Apple community look to be a pipsqueak punk who's been insulting and harassing you all the school year and when you finally had enough, turn around and belt him a good one, he runs home crying to mommy. Unfortunately, for every reasonable Mac user like E. Riley or Steve, there are 4 or 5 zealots who just don't know when to keep their trap shut. I had no opinion about Macs before I came on this list over a decade ago, but exposure here and elsewhere to the MacZealots has given me a very negative perception about Apple; it almost qualifies as visceral. I seriously doubt that I will ever buy a Mac. Which is fine by me; PCs and Windows meet all of my needs. One of these days I'll get around to installing Ubuntu on my laptop. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Apple does not choose to build laptops good for only a year or two. My wife's ibook circa 2004 is still going strong as is my 2006 Macbook Pro. At work they have to cycle out their Dell laptops every two years - cheaper than keeping them in repair. Anecdotal evidence. I've got my own. I have inexpensive laptops that are older than your 2004 iBook. They work fine. My sister has a ancient cheap Win95 laptop that she uses every day. It works fine. Most of the people I know replace PCs not because they don't work but because they want newer generation machines that are bigger and faster. To say that Apple is incapable of building a less expensive machine that won't last more than a year or two is a sad commentary on its engineering skills. But I don't believe this for an instant. They are perfectly capable of doing this; they choose not to. Why that is, I couldn't tell you. I *can* tell you that Apple appears to love its per-unit profit margin. How else to explain the $700 price difference between 1.6GHz Air and the 1.86GHz Air? The extra quarter-GHz and replacing the SATA drive with an SSD costs $700? Please. That's a buck more than Lauren paid for her whole computer. Seems like this could be more telling in terms of why there's no affordable Mac than any concern you have about Apple's ability to build a decent machine for less money. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Matthew Taylor taylorsmatt...@gmail.com wrote: You can pay a little more up front to save big in the long run, or you can pay less up front at a long term cost. It is likely that for the most part Macintosh machines are of higher quality in terms of component parts than are far less expensive similarly sized and outfitted machines designed and marketed for the Windows OS. It is very difficult for me to believe that a $700 computer will be of equivalent build quality as a $1,700 computer in most instances. I do not believe that Apple Computer Corp. arbitrarily prices their computers so that they will be appealing primarily to the brie and BMW crowd with little concern as to the quality of the product. Please note that I am not speaking here about the OS, but only the hardware. Therefore, if Macintosh offers a higher quality hardware system that also includes what I think is a better, albeit less popular operating system, and if I can buy it, then I will. I do not necessarily want the same thing that everybody else has, which is, by the way, the reason I hear many Windows users give as their rationale for using Windows computers. My brother works in the software field, and although he thinks that the Mac is the better computer in technical and electrical terms, he is wedded to Windows machines because of the nature of his job. He cannot really comment on the OS differences because he has almost never had his hands on a Mac. Additionally, as I have stated here before, most Windows users I know say they will simply feel uncomfortable and insecure if they leave the Windows fold out of fear that they will not be able to get the help that they often need to sort out problems that arise. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Apple does not choose to build laptops good for only a year or two. My wife's ibook circa 2004 is still going strong as is my 2006 Macbook Pro. At work they have to cycle out their Dell laptops every two years - cheaper than keeping them in repair. Are they used in the same manner in the same environment? If not, then the comparison is meaningless. I use a circa 2001 Dell Optiplex laptop at home, that was used daily here in the office for 5 years. I have bought about 2 dozen Dell laptops over the past 8 years or so and only a 1 or 2 of them have needed repairs not related to user abuse. Even then, we're only talking about missing keys on the keyboard and such. The Dell business line models are very well built and very reliable. I just picked up a refurbed 15.4 Vostro 1000 from Dell, their new budget line for business, for $600, which includes a 3-year, on-site next business day warranty. I doubt I will ever use the warranty, but it's nice to know that I won't have to schlep it to the mall, and leave it for 1-3 weeks for repair, if I do need it. Good luck getting a Macbook with that warranty. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Check your outgoing about 21 hours ago where you said and I quote: *No. So they show adds of people buying _laptops_ and showing how much cheaper they are (with scum-sucking bottom feeder hardware).* The implication being running any hardware with windows is scum sucking bottom feeder hardware..or as I asked is it only some of it is scum sucking? You do realize Apple doesn't make it's own motherboards in those laptops, right? On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 4:02 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) mark.sny...@ngc.com wrote: Not sure how this got to be anything not a Mac is scum. I was responding to criticism that MS does not sell hardware, but MS was showing old hardware with their OS as cheaper than Apple's. Their cheaper ad requires comparing bottom of the barrel hardware to Apple's. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Ah, now we get to it...anyone not running Apple hardware is, let me get this right...scum sucking bottom feeders, or is it anyone not running Apple hardware *likes* scum sucking bottom feeder hardware? I can't tell exactly how you were insulting anyone without macs. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Jeff, I do use _both_ W XP and OS X daily. I never called windows users riff-raff. You seem to want to drag that in. I am not whining about MS commercial, just criticizing it. Then you aren't paying attention to what you are writing. Don't buy a Mac, but at least try one before you whimper about Mac fans or get out-raged at criticism of MS. Might just tone down your rhetoric a little. I have, many times. Apple makes very good machines and I don't have anything against them. It's their user base that's the problem. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
And that is my Point! MS is only advertizing themselves as the alternative for people on a tight budget. Let's crow to the heavens and rejoice! Thou tomb stone shall read: None were cheaper than him! Not sure why everybody keeps bringing up irrelevant examples about cars when the talk about computers; is that a microsoft thing? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- So, assuming this ad is successful, the only reason to buy a Windows computer is because you're on budget. I don't know whether you're being deliberately obtuse or not. This is logically indefensible. Suppose my car won't start, and then I find that my neighbor's car won't start either, because his battery is dead. Does that mean that my battery also must be dead, and that the fact that I have no gas is not relevant? Well, guess what? It turns out that there's more than one possible reason why a car won't start, and there's more than one possible reason to buy a Windows machine. The ad neither implies nor demonstrates that this is the *only* reason; it demonstrates (proves, really) *one* reason. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
It is likely that for the most part Macintosh machines are of higher quality in terms of component parts than are far less expensive similarly sized and outfitted machines designed and marketed for the Windows OS. It is very difficult for me to believe that a $700 computer will be of equivalent build quality as a $1,700 computer in most instances. Then you have played right into their hands. I regualrly use sub-$1,000 laptops that are extemely well built and reliable. Lexus is very worried about Hyundai's new luxury models, escpecially the new Genesis, which cost a fraction of what a Lexus cost. They should be worried, as Hyundai is eating their lunch by competing directly with them on quality and selling for much less. The only factor left to overcome for Hyundai is the cachet factor. Dell has been doing this for years and is equal in quality to Apple. Happily for Dell customers, saving money is more af an issue than pumping cachet. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Nope, they picked cheap. There are fine windows configurations available, but MS picked a bottom-feeder to bolster their ad: If you must buy cheap, you must buy our OS on it. Strange message for a software maker, no? For the record, the hardware was the scum-sucker, not MS. I just think it strange that this is their main marketing strategy. Apple doesn't make their main logic boards anymore, since they went with Intel, but they used to design them. What's the point? I never said the hardware from Apple is better because they make every component; they never have. I also wrote that one can buy good hardware running Windows. But that was not what MS chose for their we are cheap ad, which required the cheap hardware. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Check your outgoing about 21 hours ago where you said and I quote: *No. So they show adds of people buying _laptops_ and showing how much cheaper they are (with scum-sucking bottom feeder hardware).* The implication being running any hardware with windows is scum sucking bottom feeder hardware..or as I asked is it only some of it is scum sucking? You do realize Apple doesn't make it's own motherboards in those laptops, right? On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 4:02 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) mark.sny...@ngc.com wrote: Not sure how this got to be anything not a Mac is scum. I was responding to criticism that MS does not sell hardware, but MS was showing old hardware with their OS as cheaper than Apple's. Their cheaper ad requires comparing bottom of the barrel hardware to Apple's. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Ah, now we get to it...anyone not running Apple hardware is, let me get this right...scum sucking bottom feeders, or is it anyone not running Apple hardware *likes* scum sucking bottom feeder hardware? I can't tell exactly how you were insulting anyone without macs. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
I don't see any other message in their ad. Just MS is cheaper, so buy a laptop with Windows if you can't afford more. Do they make another point that I missed? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Faulty logic. The statement: If you are on a budget, you buy a PC laptop is not equivalent to the statement Only if you are on a budget, you buy a PC laptop * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
And that is my Point! MS is only advertizing themselves as the alternative for people on a tight budget. Let's crow to the heavens and rejoice! Thou tomb stone shall read: None were cheaper than him! Not sure why everybody keeps bringing up irrelevant examples about cars when the talk about computers; is that a microsoft thing? No, it was an attempt to illustrate the logical fallacy you keep using. Apparently it didn't take. As Steve said, these two statements are not equivalent: What you claim the ad says: Only if you are on a budget should you buy a Windows laptop. What the ad actually says: If you are on a budget, you can only buy a Windows laptop. These are NOT the same. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
I would be hard pressed to find a laptop that competes with Apple on the looks of the machine. The new laptops are exceptional looking. But they aren't 1000 dollars more exceptional looking then competing specs for me. MS is fighting apple in the area it can...cost of hardware, Apple margins are gigantic, other hardware manufacturers, not so much. http://www.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/global/products/adamo/topics/en/us/adamo-onyx?c=usl=ens=dhscs=19 There is a high end dell, appears to be good build quality, has the price tag to claim it does anyway. If I had two grand to spend on a laptop I have to say it would be a hard decision between that and a mac. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Jeff Wright jswri...@gmail.com wrote: It is likely that for the most part Macintosh machines are of higher quality in terms of component parts than are far less expensive similarly sized and outfitted machines designed and marketed for the Windows OS. It is very difficult for me to believe that a $700 computer will be of equivalent build quality as a $1,700 computer in most instances. Then you have played right into their hands. I regualrly use sub-$1,000 laptops that are extemely well built and reliable. Lexus is very worried about Hyundai's new luxury models, escpecially the new Genesis, which cost a fraction of what a Lexus cost. They should be worried, as Hyundai is eating their lunch by competing directly with them on quality and selling for much less. The only factor left to overcome for Hyundai is the cachet factor. Dell has been doing this for years and is equal in quality to Apple. Happily for Dell customers, saving money is more af an issue than pumping cachet. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Not true. Your problem is with the placement of the word only. It is true that MS is advertising themselves as the _only_ alternative for people on a tight budget. Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: And that is my Point! MS is _only_ advertizing themselves as the alternative for people on a tight budget. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Since MS does not make hardware, why did they bring hardware into it? Apple sells OS X separately; does MS sell windows for less? What about the applications? Anything they can advertize other than low-price when they compare themselves to apple? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- I would be hard pressed to find a laptop that competes with Apple on the looks of the machine. The new laptops are exceptional looking. But they aren't 1000 dollars more exceptional looking then competing specs for me. MS is fighting apple in the area it can...cost of hardware, Apple margins are gigantic, other hardware manufacturers, not so much. http://www.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/global/products/adamo/topi cs/en/us/adamo-onyx?c=usl=ens=dhscs=19 There is a high end dell, appears to be good build quality, has the price tag to claim it does anyway. If I had two grand to spend on a laptop I have to say it would be a hard decision between that and a mac. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
I don't see any other message in their ad. Just MS is cheaper, so buy a laptop with Windows if you can't afford more. Do they make another point that I missed? There's no validity to your assumption that one ad is supposed to show all possible reasons for doing something. Here's an old Apple ad that I picked more or less at random: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz78v4euRd0 Using your logic, the Apple ad is saying that only reason to buy a Mac is that it's faster. You're sticking the word only where it doesn't belong. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Sometimes It's like some mac users look in the mirror and reflect back at non mac users their own feelings. There are no WFB..they don't exist in the same way MFB exist. The mac community was on the fighting end for so long they are just never not fighting. It's like so many of them have little man syndrome. The only WFB I can think of are more of an offshoot and they are technically gamer fan bois...which annoy most windows users too. I just wish Apple would reach some level of success and/or market share they can just sit back and be satisfied. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 9:15 AM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote: So now the WFBs are not only claiming to have the best OS, they are also claiming to have the best built machines upon which to run the OS, and all for far less money as well. That explains everything. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Few ads from MS come to my attention. So, okay Chris, does MS have other ads out? The last long campaign I remember was the one about all the innovation. Before the law-suits. Using your logic, apple's ads would be doing the same as MS, but they seem to strike varying topics to tout their product lines. Thank you, -Original Message- There's no validity to your assumption that one ad is supposed to show all possible reasons for doing something. Here's an old Apple ad that I picked more or less at random: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz78v4euRd0 Using your logic, the Apple ad is saying that only reason to buy a Mac is that it's faster. You're sticking the word only where it doesn't belong. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Fine. Well built and reliable. Better built and more reliable than a similarly outfitted Macintosh? Far less worrisome in operation? Much less need for Geeks On Call? Just as reliable and well-built, if not more so. I don't know about the Geeks. I've never needed nor used them. How come all WFBs here say they virtually never need any servicing performed on their Windows machines, yet every Windows user I know of elsewhere often has problems that need to be addressed? Running as admin. It's the signal biggest design flaw until Vista. FWIW, I manage to find all sorts of troubleshooting sites when one of my Macs throws a shoe. So now the WFBs are not only claiming to have the best OS, they are also claiming to have the best built machines upon which to run the OS, and all for far less money as well. That explains everything. If you say so, I never said anything of the sort, except for the money part. I roll my own at home and buy Dell at work. I have practically no problems with hardware and few with the OS, but no one runs as the admin either. I do very little troubleshooting that doesn't involve 3rd party apps. Anecdote warning. I know the manager at a store that primarily sells batteries. He used to be a technician, a Macintosh technician. He had so little troubleshooting work that he gave that up and went to work selling batteries. He says, Now, if I had been a Windows tech Of course, they have ~90x more users. When I go into an Apple store [shudder], the *cough* Geniuses all seem to be very busy with Apple owners having problems. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
The fact that budget buyers exist and are not served by Apple is sorta the whole point, isn't it? Except that it is not true. Other than that you are just fine. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
By that logic, MS would have been satisfied with their monopoly and just relaxed at least ten years ago. I can't think of any publicly-owned company that can afford to just sit back and be satisfied. Can you? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Sometimes It's like some mac users look in the mirror and reflect back at non mac users their own feelings. There are no WFB..they don't exist in the same way MFB exist. The mac community was on the fighting end for so long they are just never not fighting. It's like so many of them have little man syndrome. The only WFB I can think of are more of an offshoot and they are technically gamer fan bois...which annoy most windows users too. I just wish Apple would reach some level of success and/or market share they can just sit back and be satisfied. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 9:15 AM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote: So now the WFBs are not only claiming to have the best OS, they are also claiming to have the best built machines upon which to run the OS, and all for far less money as well. That explains everything. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Actually they really don't touch on macs at all. They talk about ilife sometimes...but mostly it's windows bad/mac good type adverts. Although done a lot better then MS has ever done. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) mark.sny...@ngc.com wrote: Few ads from MS come to my attention. So, okay Chris, does MS have other ads out? The last long campaign I remember was the one about all the innovation. Before the law-suits. Using your logic, apple's ads would be doing the same as MS, but they seem to strike varying topics to tout their product lines. Thank you, -Original Message- There's no validity to your assumption that one ad is supposed to show all possible reasons for doing something. Here's an old Apple ad that I picked more or less at random: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz78v4euRd0 Using your logic, the Apple ad is saying that only reason to buy a Mac is that it's faster. You're sticking the word only where it doesn't belong. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
I'm not talking company, I'm talking user base. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) mark.sny...@ngc.com wrote: By that logic, MS would have been satisfied with their monopoly and just relaxed at least ten years ago. I can't think of any publicly-owned company that can afford to just sit back and be satisfied. Can you? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Sometimes It's like some mac users look in the mirror and reflect back at non mac users their own feelings. There are no WFB..they don't exist in the same way MFB exist. The mac community was on the fighting end for so long they are just never not fighting. It's like so many of them have little man syndrome. The only WFB I can think of are more of an offshoot and they are technically gamer fan bois...which annoy most windows users too. I just wish Apple would reach some level of success and/or market share they can just sit back and be satisfied. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 9:15 AM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote: So now the WFBs are not only claiming to have the best OS, they are also claiming to have the best built machines upon which to run the OS, and all for far less money as well. That explains everything. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
What do they do better than Apple - both make software, but MS does not make hardware. So why the hell would I want MS software over Apple's? They can't seem to explain that in their marketing. Actually MS does make some hardware and they publish detailed hardware specifications for PCs that other computer makers must follow. So Dell and the like just function as a manufacturing arm for MS. They build computers to MS's specifications. Just like Apple sending specifications to Taiwan to have computers built to their specs. So MS is not all the different from Apple in this regard. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
I need a pair of shoes that are comfortable, look nice, will wear well, and DO NOT HURT MY FEET! Looks to me that you would not be buying a big, bulky, heavy laptop with a crappy screen either. That would hurt your back and your eyes. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Few ads from MS come to my attention. So, okay Chris, does MS have other ads out? Uh, yes? The 4-1/2 year-old girl capturing, enhancing, and emailing pictures to granny with a few clicks? Other little girls making panoramas and such? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
I was never talking about the users. That sounds too much like envy / inferiority. Blech. Don't want to go there. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- I'm not talking company, I'm talking user base. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) mark.sny...@ngc.com wrote: By that logic, MS would have been satisfied with their monopoly and just relaxed at least ten years ago. I can't think of any publicly-owned company that can afford to just sit back and be satisfied. Can you? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
To say that Apple is incapable of building a less expensive machine that won't last more than a year or two is a sad commentary on its engineering skills. But I don't believe this for an instant. They are perfectly capable of doing this; they choose not to. Why that is, I couldn't tell you. Yes you could. Apple has amply stated it: they don't sell crap. And as MS has amply stated: they do sell crap. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Jeff Wright jswri...@gmail.com wrote: Of course, they have ~90x more users. When I go into an Apple store [shudder], the *cough* Geniuses all seem to be very busy with Apple owners having problems. You are right, and most of those troubles are with iPods and iPhones, not the computers. That is the word straight from a couple of those Geniuses. Additionally, according to the same folks, operator error, not the computer, is the main culprit when someone visits the Genius Bar. The Genius Bar is not exclusively for sick machines. They actually provide more instructional information than they do repair orders. I had a problem with a five-year old 17 Macbook that I bought second-hand. Logic board failure. Apple gave me, cost free, a brand new 17 Macbook Pro. They treated my extremely well, and I really wasn't even one of their customers in that instance. And no, I did not have to tie my long hair back into a pony tail or prove my societal status to get that deal. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Yes, that is true. What I am seeing, that is not in the ad, is the statement _Only_ if you are on a tight budget would you want to buy hardware with an MS operating system. What I do see is _If_ you are on a tight budget, etc Didn't you take logic in some math course where you learned the differences between A if B, A only if B, A if and only if B? Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: Steve you are seeing something that is not in the ad. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Not true. Your problem is with the placement of the word only. It is true that MS is advertising themselves as the _only_ alternative for people on a tight budget. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Sometimes It's like some mac users look in the mirror and reflect back at non mac users their own feelings. There are no WFB..they don't exist in the same way MFB exist. You obviously have not been reading this thread. The WFBs have made some mighty wild claims in defense of their dearly loved. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
MS is fighting apple in the area it can...cost of hardware, Apple margins are gigantic, other hardware manufacturers, not so much. Same reason you should go out and buy a car from a bankrupt car maker. You would not want to buy something from a healthy company that was making money and was sure to be around to provide support for many years to come. Nope. Get the cheap one and do not ask why. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
And you've been discussing the matter with yourself for seven emails...the mirror analogy suddenly seems even more apropos. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: Sometimes It's like some mac users look in the mirror and reflect back at non mac users their own feelings. There are no WFB..they don't exist in the same way MFB exist. You obviously have not been reading this thread. The WFBs have made some mighty wild claims in defense of their dearly loved. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Chris Dunford ch...@covesoftware.com wrote: What you can't dance around, and what not a single one of you have been able to admit, is that if you want a 17 notebook and all you have is a thousand bucks, you can choose between dozens of Windows laptops or zero Macs. Macintosh machines do cost more than Windows machines of the same basic physical size. But, are they equivalent? I, for one, have no problem with the fact that Macs are normally more costly than similar computers sold with the Windows OS. Macs have fewer post-sale problems that arise. Less of a need to keep the phone number of Geeks-On-Call handy. They have a higher resale value. I like their design. They're cool. I do graphics and Macs are better at that. Life is full of decisions as to what one is going to spend their money on. I'll spend more on a computer and less on a car than other folks. I'll spend more on a camera and less on a sofa as well. Others will get that expensive sofa and go cheap on the computer. That's okay as well. People are different from one another. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Macintosh machines do cost more than Windows machines of the same basic physical size. Steve, congratulations on being the first to even come close to acknowledging reality. You follow it up with the inevitable But..., yet this is a good first step in the twelve-step program for MFBs. :) People are different from one another. This is the key sentence in your reply, I think, and a point that the Mac fans here ignore. The position appears to be that anyone who doesn't see things their way is, by definition, a moron. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
As someone who spends 90% of computing time on W-XP, but prefers Apple (and has for my own compute time), I find your WFB rants a bit disingenuous. I don't spend near as much maintaining my OS X computer as the company spends on this W XP laptop. You just come off sounding ignorant to someone who sees plenty of both platforms. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Macintosh machines do cost more than Windows machines of the same basic physical size. Steve, congratulations on being the first to even come close to acknowledging reality. You follow it up with the inevitable But..., yet this is a good first step in the twelve-step program for MFBs. :) People are different from one another. This is the key sentence in your reply, I think, and a point that the Mac fans here ignore. The position appears to be that anyone who doesn't see things their way is, by definition, a moron. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
The commercial had one, simple premise: if you have a budget of $1,000 and 17 laptop is your target device, you are out of luck with Apple. (That reminds me of the old adage, If you have to ask the price...). No you are not. WFBs are just stuck on the old (and dumb) idea that a compact home computer should be a fat laptop. That just demonstrates a lack of imagination on the part of Windows computer manufacturers. Apple took the trouble to think the problem through and came up with a much better solution, the iMac. WFBs are just fixated that it has to be a laptop. You need more imagination. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Betty, do you think that the woman with the Swiffer actually cleans her house with that thing? Or that it is actually her house? Or that it is a house at all, not a stage set? For starters the Swiffer ad is not presented as being documentary. The Laptop Hunters ad rings false from the first note. This ad contains one manipulative lie after another. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
You folks have danced around this thing in every conceivable way. She's an actress. She didn't go into the store (which you don't know). Her HP is too heavy (it's certainly heavier than the equivalent Mac, which doesn't exist). It's an old model (it's not). She should've gotten an iMac (to take to class?). She should've gotten a Linux netbook. She should've somehow gotten a $2,800 MacBook Pro with her $1,000. Her taste is questionable... Yes thinking and analysis instead of following the party line is going to be distrubing to WFBs. That is probably why you are WFBs. I think it has been amply demonstrated that the premise and conclusion of the ad are quite false and demonstrate the stupidest sort of computer buyer. As much as you WFBs want to dance around the issues, Lauren made a big mistake. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
What you can't dance around, and what not a single one of you have been able to admit, is that if you want a 17 notebook and all you have is a thousand bucks, you can choose between dozens of Windows laptops or zero Macs. Those notebooks are not really notebooks. They are compact desktops. Apple does make them and they are in the price range. You keep persisting with the it has to be brown argument. This is a false way to stack the deck. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
As someone who spends 90% of computing time on W-XP, but prefers Apple (and has for my own compute time), I find your WFB rants a bit disingenuous. I don't spend near as much maintaining my OS X computer as the company spends on this W XP laptop. You just come off sounding ignorant to someone who sees plenty of both platforms. Mark, it's not about preference. It's not about which is better. It's not about capabilities, maintainability, long term cost, or overall degree of shininess. In fact, it's not about opinion of any kind. Note that not one of the WFBs anywhere in this thread has said that Lauren's laptop is better than, say, a MacBook. What it IS about is whether or not you can get a laptop at all if you only have $1,000 to spend. I don't see why this is so difficult for McFans to understand. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Like the Apple ads? You can spot em On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 6:41 AM, Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: Betty, do you think that the woman with the Swiffer actually cleans her house with that thing? Or that it is actually her house? Or that it is a house at all, not a stage set? For starters the Swiffer ad is not presented as being documentary. The Laptop Hunters ad rings false from the first note. This ad contains one manipulative lie after another. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
No you are not. WFBs are just stuck on the old (and dumb) idea that a compact home computer should be a fat laptop. That just demonstrates a lack of imagination on the part of Windows computer manufacturers. Apple took the trouble to think the problem through and came up with a much better solution, the iMac. WFBs are just fixated that it has to be a laptop. You need more imagination. You can always tell when Tom has slack in his business, as he so much more time to troll the list with his silliness. Fool me once, indeed. On the brighter side, this means more time for he and Mrs. Judge Smails to mock the poorer people at the club. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
If all MS has to offer is cheap (and only mention purchase price), then they are in more trouble than I imagined. Buy a Yugo or a Chrysler-Fiat; nobody (who advertizes) will sell you one cheaper. Wow. Are they chasing Walmart? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Mark, it's not about preference. It's not about which is better. It's not about capabilities, maintainability, long term cost, or overall degree of shininess. In fact, it's not about opinion of any kind. Note that not one of the WFBs anywhere in this thread has said that Lauren's laptop is better than, say, a MacBook. What it IS about is whether or not you can get a laptop at all if you only have $1,000 to spend. I don't see why this is so difficult for McFans to understand. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
As someone who spends 90% of computing time on W-XP, but prefers Apple (and has for my own compute time), I find your WFB rants a bit disingenuous. I don't spend near as much maintaining my OS X computer as the company spends on this W XP laptop. You just come off sounding ignorant to someone who sees plenty of both platforms. I can't speak for what your company does, but for my XP systems, I patch once per month for MS patches and then on an as needed basis for 3rd party app patches. Beyond that, I don't need to do much at all. The nice thing is that I can do all this centrally, whereas with my Macs I have to visit every machine individually to patch it. That's about 10x as much time per machine for me. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
My company follows all of the mandatory MS patches, which come out a little over one a month and push them down to desktops and servers. My experience with Macs in corporate world was with power-users (all engineers) who did our own patching. An administrator would notify us of patches and we'd let him know when we were done. Might not work in windows world, or with newby/novice users, but that worked well for us. Of course, most of us must self-administer our home computers. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- I can't speak for what your company does, but for my XP systems, I patch once per month for MS patches and then on an as needed basis for 3rd party app patches. Beyond that, I don't need to do much at all. The nice thing is that I can do all this centrally, whereas with my Macs I have to visit every machine individually to patch it. That's about 10x as much time per machine for me. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) mark.sny...@ngc.com wrote: My company follows all of the mandatory MS patches, which come out a little over one a month and push them down to desktops and servers. My experience with Macs in corporate world was with power-users (all engineers) who did our own patching. An administrator would notify us of patches and we'd let him know when we were done. Might not work in windows world, or with newby/novice users, but that worked well for us. Of course, most of us must self-administer our home computers. I learned long ago to not count on staff doing your work for you. That's the easiest way to get burned. If I had a quarter for every question that I answered with Did you read the email I sent out about this yesterday/last week?, I could retire early. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters] Puhleze stop
I've been using Macs since 1988 - ever since going up to the counter of the little computer store and telling them that I figured out just fine the computer with the folders and tiny pictures of pages on the screen but that the other computer with the black screen and the green letters seemed to be broken since it didn't seem to really do anything. I've listened to the old Computer guys radio show and snickered at the appropriate places when Tom P smugly opined that all would be right in the callers' world if only they owned a Mac. I've sneered at the various to and fro discussions about Macs versus PeeCees on this list for years but this thread has done it for me. I'm ready to put gaff tape over all of the Apple logos on every computer I own. I'm ready to send an award to the advertising agency that created this infamous advert. It gets an A++ for effectiveness even if it never sells a single extra copy of Windows. It made the Mac users on this list and probably elsewhere on the net look like absolute idiots for their frothing at the mouth response to the advertisement. Well done Microsoft! I'm glad I get the digest version of the list. I think I'd have to stop collecting my email otherwise. At 9:45 AM -0400 3/30/09, Tom Piwowar wrote: Yes thinking and analysis instead of following the party line is going to be distrubing to WFBs. That is probably why you are WFBs. I think it has been amply demonstrated that the premise and conclusion of the ad are quite false and demonstrate the stupidest sort of computer buyer. As much as you WFBs want to dance around the issues, Lauren made a big mistake. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
MS doesn't offer laptops. They offer an operating system that runs on low end laptops (and, in addition, midrange and high end). Apple offers an OS and hardware only in the midrange and high end. Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: If all MS has to offer is cheap (and only mention purchase price), then they are in more trouble than I imagined. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
If all MS has to offer is cheap (and only mention purchase price), then they are in more trouble than I imagined. Buy a Yugo or a Chrysler-Fiat; nobody (who advertizes) will sell you one cheaper. Wow. Are they chasing Walmart? I take it that the Mac camp is OK with being seen as elitist snobs? More so than already, I mean. It's getting much easier to imagine certain people speaking through teeth clenched around a cigarette holder and contemplating watering down the cheap scotch that the help has been getting into. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
I learned long ago to not count on staff doing your work for you. That's the easiest way to get burned. We had the seniority to tell the administrator what his priorities were; we defined his job and had him document any new processes we hadn't already documented as we set things up. If I had a quarter for every question that I answered with Did you read the email I sent out about this yesterday/last week?, I could retire early. We might have retired you early if you came to us as an administrator with that attitude, and you'd be looking for those quarters still. Mark * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
No. So they show adds of people buying _laptops_ and showing how much cheaper they are (with scum-sucking bottom feeder hardware). You are very astute. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- MS doesn't offer laptops. They offer an operating system that runs on low end laptops (and, in addition, midrange and high end). Apple offers an OS and hardware only in the midrange and high end. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
That's right: MS can only brag about low-priced combos of their OS running on cheap hardware. They are down to that, nothing else left, except maybe sucks a little less than what we have out now? So, if I order anything other than the cheapest thing on the menu, I am _elitist_? What kind of warped logic is that? Are you getting desperate? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- I take it that the Mac camp is OK with being seen as elitist snobs? More so than already, I mean. It's getting much easier to imagine certain people speaking through teeth clenched around a cigarette holder and contemplating watering down the cheap scotch that the help has been getting into. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
You do? Then you are not using the correct management tools. Matthew On Mar 30, 2009, at 11:59 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: with my Macs I have to visit every machine individually to patch it. That's about 10x as much time per machine for me. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
We had the seniority to tell the administrator what his priorities were; we defined his job and had him document any new processes we hadn't already documented as we set things up. If I had a quarter for every question that I answered with Did you read the email I sent out about this yesterday/last week?, I could retire early. We might have retired you early if you came to us as an administrator with that attitude, and you'd be looking for those quarters still. I suspect you work in a very different environment than I do. Fortunately, I work for more level-headed people who expect me to understand their business and provide the business tools needed, while protecting business assets from the users' whims. This place was self-administered when I got here and was a raging mess. I was brought in to bring order to their chaos. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Oh, a factory or business shop full of idiots who know very little, making you look the quintessential fountain of knowledge. Any system can be set up to run successfully, if anyone bother to set it up. I suppose you must now judge no group capable of administering their own computers. Jeff, if the only restaurant you've ever eaten is a cheap hash-house, perhaps I shouldn't expect your culinary dreams to get but so high? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- We had the seniority to tell the administrator what his priorities were; we defined his job and had him document any new processes we hadn't already documented as we set things up. If I had a quarter for every question that I answered with Did you read the email I sent out about this yesterday/last week?, I could retire early. We might have retired you early if you came to us as an administrator with that attitude, and you'd be looking for those quarters still. I suspect you work in a very different environment than I do. Fortunately, I work for more level-headed people who expect me to understand their business and provide the business tools needed, while protecting business assets from the users' whims. This place was self-administered when I got here and was a raging mess. I was brought in to bring order to their chaos. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Ah, now we get to it...anyone not running Apple hardware is, let me get this right...scum sucking bottom feeders, or is it anyone not running Apple hardware *likes* scum sucking bottom feeder hardware? I can't tell exactly how you were insulting anyone without macs. On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) mark.sny...@ngc.com wrote: No. So they show adds of people buying _laptops_ and showing how much cheaper they are (with scum-sucking bottom feeder hardware). You are very astute. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- MS doesn't offer laptops. They offer an operating system that runs on low end laptops (and, in addition, midrange and high end). Apple offers an OS and hardware only in the midrange and high end. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
So, if I order anything other than the cheapest thing on the menu, I am _elitist_? Nope. But, when you publicly sneer at those who don't have any choice but to sit in the cheaper seats, then yes, you are an elitist snob. What kind of warped logic is that? Are you getting desperate? I don't think that I'm the one who has been showing desparation on this topic. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
You do? Then you are not using the correct management tools. I fully understand that, but we don't have enough Macs on the network to justify the cost at this point. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters] Puhleze stop
I've been using Macs since 1988 I'm ready to put gaff tape over all of the Apple logos on every computer I own. I'm ready to send an award to the advertising agency that created this infamous advert. It gets an A++ for effectiveness even if it never sells a single extra copy of Windows. It made the Mac users on this list and probably elsewhere on the net look like absolute idiots for their frothing at the mouth response to the advertisement. Well done Microsoft! Bravo. This comes as close as I think anyone will to the response I had been hoping for: I think the Mac OS is much better than Windows, and it seems a shame that Apple can't or won't find a way to make a portable box for it that more people can afford. That's really all that was necessary. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
That can be a self fulfilling limitation though - the TCO appears high because of the labor, limiting the number management will purchase, with the limited number being used to justify not buying the one unit and application that would lower the TCO ... Matthew On Mar 30, 2009, at 2:36 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: You do? Then you are not using the correct management tools. I fully understand that, but we don't have enough Macs on the network to justify the cost at this point. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Oh, a factory or business shop full of idiots who know very little, making you look the quintessential fountain of knowledge. Actually, yes. That's my job; to be the resident IT expert. I also believe in the division of labor, so that we get the highest return on investment in staff. We have people who do marketing and others who do HR. Strangely, I don't have the slightest impulse to arrogantly presume that I know how to do their job, nor do I try. Any system can be set up to run successfully, if anyone bother to set it up. I suppose you must now judge no group capable of administering their own computers. I never said that. My experience, however, has taught to not depend on staff to do the job of IT. Yours has obviously been different than mine. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
That is strange but I think I preached on part of this topic yesterday! :-) Stewart At 01:39 PM 3/30/2009, you wrote: So, if I order anything other than the cheapest thing on the menu, I am _elitist_? Nope. But, when you publicly sneer at those who don't have any choice but to sit in the cheaper seats, then yes, you are an elitist snob. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
That can be a self fulfilling limitation though - the TCO appears high because of the labor, limiting the number management will purchase, with the limited number being used to justify not buying the one unit and application that would lower the TCO ... Matthew - Yes I do know this already. I have no desire to spend my time manually patching systems. However, we would have to abandon sunk costs in a system that serves us well on 95% of our computers and purchse one that services both PCs and Macs, or invest in a separate system just for the Macs. Neither are in my budget. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters] Puhleze stop
Subject: Re: Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters] Puhleze stop Seconded! I'm glad I get the digest version of the list. I think I'd have to stop collecting my email otherwise. Agreed! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Nope. But, when you publicly sneer at those who don't have any choice but to sit in the cheaper seats, then yes, you are an elitist snob. This is pointless name calling. The Mac is the cheap seats. The Mac would come with the iWork productivity suite and iLife media suite. All excellent programs. And no need for anti-virus software. She bought a laptop loaded with 30-day demos of the software she needs. What is she going to do after 30 days as she is confronted with all those pop-up windows demanding payment for continued use? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Download Open Office? :-) Donna In a message dated 3/30/2009 8:11:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, t...@tjpa.com writes: Nope. But, when you publicly sneer at those who don't have any choice but to sit in the cheaper seats, then yes, you are an elitist snob. This is pointless name calling. The Mac is the cheap seats. The Mac would come with the iWork productivity suite and iLife media suite. All excellent programs. And no need for anti-virus software. She bought a laptop loaded with 30-day demos of the software she needs. What is she going to do after 30 days as she is confronted with all those pop-up windows demanding payment for continued use? **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220439616x1201372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
This is pointless name calling. The Mac is the cheap seats. The Mac would come with the iWork productivity suite and iLife media suite. All excellent programs. That's called competing, and that's good. Apple is trying to create value for their customers and I won't criticize them for that. Gosh, I wonder what would happen if MS bundled a productivity suite with their OS? I wonder And no need for anti-virus software. Which only makes Windows harder to hack, at least according to the man who pwned the Mac in less than 2 minutes. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
I think I've found Tom's problem. He needs to eat better, he is obviously in a very weakened state and thinks 6-7 pounds is heavy. I challenge you to start the day with 2 six-packs under you arm and carry them whereever you go (no you can't drink the contents). This is just another example of the ridiculous lengths that WFBs will take to insist that the computer in the commercial is something that it is not. I happen to have an HP DV series laptop...my wife uses it every day. She is able, despite her 5'1 120lb frame to take this laptop with ease from kitchen table to desk to living room And she could move an iMac that distance just as well. What's your point? mine is heavier then the one in the advert as it has 2 x 120 gig HD's inside (set to RAID 1 no less). You did not say that you tote it around all day long. Keeping it in the trunk of your car doesn't count. Do you carry it around all day long? The lack of intellectual honesty coming from the other side on this discussion is disheartening though expected. You are the one who are not being honest. Nobody, but a weightlifter, carries around a laptop that is that bulky and that heavy. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
What it IS about is whether or not you can get a laptop at all if you only have $1,000 to spend. I don't see why this is so difficult for McFans to understand. An 8-pound laptop is a laptop in name only. If you are going to stretch to call that a laptop then I could stretch things too and claim that the iMac could lay flat on your lap and is therefore a laptop too. In fact neither one functions like a true laptop. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
You are the one who are not being honest. Nobody, but a weightlifter, carries around a laptop that is that bulky and that heavy. This rather skirts the fact that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of not-weightlifters do this every day, don't it? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
This rather skirts the fact that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of not-weightlifters do this every day, don't it? I used to carry around a big, bulky, heavy terminal. I know first hand how miserable it is. People do it because they have to. Buying such an albatross is nothing to crow about. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
I wonder if this Lauren was and always has been a Windows user in the first place? An office manager? Sounds like Windows to me! Obviously she has never had a Macintosh, and did not even like or appreciate Macs. She proved that by her comments about not being cool enough. Looks to me as though folks who desired a Windows machine to begin with were tapped to pose as laptop shoppers for these ads. I think they [M$/Ballmer] do a disservice to both PC and Mac users by having Lauren say, not cool enough. Sure Macs are cool, but you use what works best for you. I think the new Toshiba notebooks look very good/cool, and they were the first to have titanium laptops too, not Apple. My friend has a super-powered Superman Alien notebook that he uses for gaming, ah, working--very nice toy. You can be cool and use a peecee. You can be a dork and use a Mac. Lauren is an actress [and a model?] who's appealing to those who are too lazy to figure out what's a good computer for them, or which is really the best value in the long run -- the Mac or the PC. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Not cool enough [was re: Laptop Hunters]
Oh Betty...where were your calls for disservice during the i'm a mac/i'm a pc ads from Apple? Please. She is representing a person, unlike some here, who have to work with something called a 'budget'. I know all the mac heads drive around in their Bentley's and put their nose up at those who can only afford a toyota or heaven forbid...*gasp* a Hyundai. Some of us actually have to consider the prices of things, we can't merely choose what we want and walk to the register and plunk down any old amount the vendor pleases. We get the best we can afford for what we need to do. Tom's answer in an earlier email was to skip a portable and get the imac for her to use *as* a portable. So his mac mind says buy a mac at any price no matter what. Very smart decision. This is where mac people get the perception of elitism and snobbery. I'm not cool enough for a mac because I'm not willing to fork over all my dough...and take out a loan..and borrow money from friends..and parents..just to get a mac. That said, the Apple ads are much better. On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 9:24 AM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: I wonder if this Lauren was and always has been a Windows user in the first place? An office manager? Sounds like Windows to me! Obviously she has never had a Macintosh, and did not even like or appreciate Macs. She proved that by her comments about not being cool enough. Looks to me as though folks who desired a Windows machine to begin with were tapped to pose as laptop shoppers for these ads. I think they [M$/Ballmer] do a disservice to both PC and Mac users by having Lauren say, not cool enough. Sure Macs are cool, but you use what works best for you. I think the new Toshiba notebooks look very good/cool, and they were the first to have titanium laptops too, not Apple. My friend has a super-powered Superman Alien notebook that he uses for gaming, ah, working--very nice toy. You can be cool and use a peecee. You can be a dork and use a Mac. Lauren is an actress [and a model?] who's appealing to those who are too lazy to figure out what's a good computer for them, or which is really the best value in the long run -- the Mac or the PC. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
