On Jan 3, 2010, at 1:30 AM, Constance Warner wrote:
Hey, weren't YOU one of the people arguing FOR universal broadband
access, as an essential qualification for participating in our
modern economy?
I still do. I'm just excluding gun owners.
On Jan 3, 2010, at 1:23 AM, Constance Warner wrote:
I'm mainly concerned for people who can't live in Montgomery County,
but who must live in places where service is much poorer, is
nonexistent, or is beyond the financial means of most inhabitants.
So if I decide I want to wire my outhouse
On Jan 3, 2010, at 2:47 AM, Eric S. Sande wrote:
Guys, don't freak out. Local wired telephony is regulated at the
state level. It's a utility. Regardless of what I WANT to do with
the network,
you all vote for the politicians that make the rules.
Not exactly true. You could sell off
He'll go after the other basic freedoms later...
On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 10:35 AM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote:
On Jan 3, 2010, at 1:30 AM, Constance Warner wrote:
Hey, weren't YOU one of the people arguing FOR universal broadband access,
as an essential qualification for participating in our
So if I decide I want to wire my outhouse for broadband, Eric should be
compelled to haul a cable or go to jail?
If you've got the casheesh to cover my costs, and you're in my territory,
I'll wire that joint like George Jetson.
But I'm not going to do it at a loss. I'm not a charity, I'm a
You could blame it on terrorists.
That's not fair. We lost people in the 9/11 attacks. Maybe you didn't know
that. They were on their jobs. I'm not forgetting that, ever.
We're somewhat of an extended family. What can I say about those
we lost? Probably not enough. I have nightmares
Constance Warner wrote:
Well, if this is a nonstory, I'll be happy. Killing landlines would
be a nuisance for most of us, a real hardship for some of us, and a
bonanza for the phone companies.
But while we're at it, we might ask why the cellphone service in this
country mostly sucks, why
On Jan 2, 2010, at 11:06 AM, Constance Warner wrote:
This whole thing looks like the replacement of light rail with cars
and GM-built buses in the 30's and 40's. Right now, municipalities
are trying to rebuild what was destroyed in the name of corporate
profits. Destroying low-cost public
On Jan 2, 2010, at 12:57 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote:
Well there, you have said it yourself. An orderly plan. That is
most assuredly what will be missing from the equation. When, as you
say, the time comes, there will have been many vague promises and
assurances made by the telcos about
On Jan 2, 2010, at 12:57 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote:
My position is that they must
FIRST be made to provide an alternative and reliable telephone system
to every customer who would lose landline service BEFORE the wires are
cut. No promises. They MUST do that FIRST.
Why such rampant
On Jan 2, 2010, at 3:09 PM, Constance Warner wrote:
It helps everyone if there isn't an underclass that's excluded from
basic participation in society, because something that's essential--
like in this case a telephone--is no longer available. Access to
basic services with only modest means
On Jan 2, 2010, at 3:09 PM, Constance Warner wrote:
It's more like trying to maintain a basic level of civilization.
Several questionable aspects here...
1) Does Internet = civilization?
2) Have you not made the choice to live away from civilization?
At 02:27 PM 1/2/2010, tjpa wrote:
It took 10 years for TV to go digital and,
while not perfect, it transitioned pretty well.
That's an unsubstantiated opinion.
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Gee, if people were allowed to do without telephone service, how would the bill
collectors get their work done?
Fred Holmes
At 02:35 PM 1/2/2010, tjpa wrote:
On Jan 2, 2010, at 12:57 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote:
My position is that they must
FIRST be made to provide an alternative and
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 2:27 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote:
When we deny the inevitable and keep running with an unsupportable old
technology it greatly increases the likelihood that when it finally goes it
will go suddenly. Much better to face reality now and establish a long term
plan. It
When we deny the inevitable and keep running with an unsupportable old
technology it greatly increases the likelihood that when it finally goes it
will go suddenly. Much better to face reality now and establish a long term
plan. It took 10 years for TV to go digital and, while not perfect, it
Well if you want old twisted pair forever, move to qwest territory.
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:32 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote:
When telcos upgrade their technology to serve everyone affordably and
efficiently, then, and only then, will be the right time to get rid of old
land lines.
Hey, weren't YOU one of the people arguing FOR universal broadband
access, as an essential qualification for participating in our modern
economy?
I do have broadband access. Lots of people don't, and, as you
pointed out, it's getting harder to participate in economic and civic
life
Oh, come on. I live in MONTGOMERY COUNTY--the middle of Montgomery
County, Silver Spring to be exact, not the back of beyond. If the
telecoms can't service Montgomery County, we should all go after them
with torches and pitchforks.
I'm mainly concerned for people who can't live in
Guys, don't freak out. Local wired telephony is regulated at the state
level. It's a utility. Regardless of what I WANT to do with the network,
you all vote for the politicians that make the rules.
The Telco is regulated, beyond belief. It's not just the FCC, it's every
local and state
Most businesses, large and small, continue to use
landline phones extensively, in many cases almost exclusively, for
incoming and outgoing business calls. Ditto for all governmental
agencies nationwide.
We are quite professional.
No reason for worry.
Thanks for your concern,
The Phone
Some definition of terms may be in order. Can the person (or business)
having their phone service provided by Comcast be described as a landline
user? Or does landline == twisted pair? With regard to user experience,
there's not much difference (until the power goes out!).
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 7:55 AM, John Emmerling jpemmerl...@gmail.com wrote:
Some definition of terms may be in order. Can the person (or business)
having their phone service provided by Comcast be described as a landline
user? Or does landline == twisted pair? With regard to user
At 01:08 AM 1/1/2010, Eric S. Sande wrote:
I've never made a secret of the fact that an all-optical carrier network is
what is desired. That has a downside in terms of edge device reliability, but
in overall maintenance overhead it is way superior (read more profitable) than
a copper based
To quote Ernestine, the telephone operator on Laugh-In,
We don't care. We don't have to! We're the telephone company.
--Constance Warner
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I wonder if anyone has considered the political component of all
this. What reactions will the proposal to kill landline service do
to various voting blocks in the electorate--some of whom will
protest, write their congresspersons, sign petitions, and generally
make life unpleasant for
At 10:31 AM 1/1/2010, you wrote:
Example: we finally got my mother to buy a small cellphone for which
you buy service with little phone cards, because we didn't want her
to get stranded on the road somewhere, far from help. She keeps it
turned off, most of the time. She's not a Luddite; she
Well, if this is a nonstory, I'll be happy. Killing landlines
would be a nuisance for most of us, a real hardship for some of us,
and a bonanza for the phone companies.
But while we're at it, we might ask why the cellphone service in this
country mostly sucks, why you can't use iPhones
At 11:13 AM 1/1/2010, Tony B wrote:
In fact there's really no news here. As the articles state, we're down
to 1 in 5 households that only have a landline, and that number is
dropping all the time. When, not if.
Because of the word only in the above statement, it's not an interesting
statement.
I usually avoid this kind of discussion, but I will comment on
Constance' rhetorical question about why US wired/wireless telephony is
very different from other parts of the world. Up until the turn of the
last century, the US had a HUGE investment in copper technology, while
most of rest of
Verizon is helping out on their end. In Baltimore, MD, 3 people I've
talked to last week have found their landlines have been cut by
Verizon over the last couple of months even though they were still
being used. When Verizon finally owned up to the fact, it still took
two weeks for the
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Tony B ton...@gmail.com wrote:
This is one of the worst trolls I've seen on the list in a while. Not
quite as bad as Tom's RAID rants, but right up there. ATT hasn't
petitioned anyone to do anything, they were just answering an FCC
query. Even when you were
I live in one of those areas Verizon sold off their pots service.
Many of the folks in this area are considered rural.
The only options we have are pots or cell. No local VOIP offered here.
Right now I am working with my pots service to get a 6mps DSL
service. Looks like I will be sticking
- Original Message -
From: Eric S. Sande esa...@verizon.net
To: Computer Guys Discussion List COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 1:08 AM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Kill it!!!
Verizon is helping out on their end.
Interesting. We still have a significant revenue
No, you're thinking of the old landlines of the 50's and 60's. Today
they're over-shared the same as everything else and are probably about
as reliable in an emergency. I mean, there are different types of
emergencies. A 9/11 event will clog all the services. But an accident
in your bathroom can
We rarely even lock our doors when we go out, makes coming back in so easy.
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Tony B ton...@gmail.com wrote:
No, you're thinking of the old landlines of the 50's and 60's. Today
they're over-shared the same as everything else and are probably about
as reliable in
OMG. RAID and POTS. Some of us are not aging well. I'm really
surprised at the high degree fear of change on what is supposed to be
a discussion for techies.
I think anyone who is tech aware has to to admit that the days of POTS
(a switched telephone network) are numbered. It just does not
Bringing up ATT again?
Stewart
At 03:55 PM 1/1/2010, you wrote:
Digital does not have to mean poor quality. Analog POTS lines support
a frequency domain from 200 to 2000 Hz at best. Transmitting that
digitally is no big deal. It is true that some crappy carriers try to
push quality below
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Tony B ton...@gmail.com wrote:
No, you're thinking of the old landlines of the 50's and 60's. Today
they're over-shared the same as everything else and are probably about
as reliable in an emergency.
I do not disagree with you on this. However, should there
In fact there's really no news here. As the articles state, we're down
to 1 in 5 households that only have a landline, and that number is
dropping all the time. When, not if.
The 1 in 5 stat looks like FUD to me.
That's B.S. The United States doesn't have the broadband or cellular
capacity
Most of those statistics take into account young people who are very
mobile and do not have land lines. (Plus metropolitan areas)
My two oldest children fall into that category.
My daughter and son-in-law own a house but have no land line. MY son
lives in an apt. and has no land line.
We'd be cell only but DSL is the only thing that is available here and
adding a landline decreases the total cost of service for the DSL so we keep
it. I couldn't bring myself to pay full price for DSL nightmare.
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 6:13 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall
revsamarsh...@earthlink.net
At 03:50 PM 1/1/2010, Tony B wrote:
A 9/11 event will clog all the services. But an accident
in your bathroom can likely be handled via cell/voip as reliably as a
landline. Maybe better if you have your cell phone with you and don't
have to crawl to the nearest phone. But then, how many of us
At 04:55 PM 1/1/2010, t.piwowar wrote:
I think anyone who is tech aware has to to admit that the days of POTS
(a switched telephone network) are numbered.
I believe that POTS is entirely digital once the copper wire gets to the
junction at the TELCO. No longer switched, except perhaps
At 04:55 PM 1/1/2010, t.piwowar wrote:
We know how to perform this function much better
and at lower cost.
Better is in the eye of the beholder. My opinion is that it is accomplished
at lower cost by cutting corners. I want the good stuff and am willing to
pay for it.
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Fred Holmes f...@his.com wrote:
At 04:55 PM 1/1/2010, t.piwowar wrote:
That does not mean that twisted copper pairs are going away. In some
areas twisted pairs will go away. In other areas that will be around
for a long time. What will change is the signaling
Actually a solar panel with a battery would keep you up about 95% of the time.
Most highway departments have used this set up to run warning lights
and sensors on highways for years.
Stewart
At 07:46 PM 1/1/2010, you wrote:
A small solar panel would be nice to keep the system going or at
Before we trash the old, copper-wire (or even fiber-optic) landlines,
I'd like to point out an inconvenient truth: in a lot of places and
circumstances, cellphones will not work. Here are just a few cases
where cellphones will fail:
1. Below ground, in parking garages, the below-ground
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 4:55 PM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote:
OMG. RAID and POTS. Some of us are not aging well. I'm really surprised at
the high degree fear of change on what is supposed to be a discussion for
techies.
I believe the only real fear of change as per this discussion is the
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 5:48 PM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote:
ATT has petitioned the FCC to allow for the dismantling and removal
of all landline telephone service in the United States. ATT wants to
know when they can begin the euthanasia and how soon the termination
can be
Verizon is helping out on their end. In Baltimore, MD, 3 people I've
talked to last week have found their landlines have been cut by
Verizon over the last couple of months even though they were still
being used. When Verizon finally owned up to the fact, it still took
two weeks for the landlines
Verizon is helping out on their end.
Interesting. We still have a significant revenue stream from landlines.
Very much so. But if you look at recent history we've basically sold off
all of the territories where it would be less profitable to deploy newer
technologies.
That's a business
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 1:08 AM, Eric S. Sande esa...@verizon.net wrote:
I don't know if the ATT petition story cited is true. I'd like a link to
it.
I did not have a link at first, having read the story but failing to
note its source, and then not being able to quickly find it when I
Here is another link to the plan by ATT to discontinue landline service:
http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/12/30/carrier.asks.fcc.to.phase.out.land.phones/
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On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 1:08 AM, Eric S. Sande esa...@verizon.net wrote:
Interesting. We still have a significant revenue stream from landlines.
Very much so. But if you look at recent history we've basically sold off
all of the territories where it would be less profitable to deploy newer
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