Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
Silly me. I expected you to actually back up what you said. On Oct 20, 2009 10:13 AM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Oct 19, 2009, at 3:07 PM, mike wrote: Figured as much, more from Tom the judge of stuff he ha... More Glen Beck style logic from our WFB in Chief. To scoff at breathless reviews of products that have not been seen is not judging stuff unseen, it is judging the fan bois who write such drivel. * ** List info, subscrip... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
On Oct 19, 2009, at 3:07 PM, mike wrote: Figured as much, more from Tom the judge of stuff he hasn't seen. BTW, what is your point in saying stuff you clearly can't back up? More Glen Beck style logic from our WFB in Chief. To scoff at breathless reviews of products that have not been seen is not judging stuff unseen, it is judging the fan bois who write such drivel. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
Not sure what your point is..no one knows what size the image sensor it has, let alone as you say the quality...but you are still dismissing it? Maybe wait till we actually know the quality? I would also rather have a great quality 2mp cam then a so so 5mp cam, but as yet, it is all speculation. I was more interested in finding out what Tom thinks is lacking in android..all the things it doesn't have as he said. On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 8:46 PM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 3:02 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: Well done. Of course it doesn't mention all the things the Android does not have. Competition will be good. Okay, apparently it has a five megapixel image sensor for its camera. So what? Five megapixels on what size sensor? Image quality is not derived from the number of megapixels alone. The physical sensor size that contains those five megapixels can be as important as the sheer number of pixels. Three megapixels on a larger sensor can outperform five megapixels on a smaller one. And let's not forget the lens. Sounds like more of the old megapixels wars to me. Yawn. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
Amen --- On Sun, 10/18/09, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.com wrote: From: phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Date: Sunday, October 18, 2009, 11:46 PM On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 3:02 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: Well done. Of course it doesn't mention all the things the Android does not have. Competition will be good. Okay, apparently it has a five megapixel image sensor for its camera. So what? Five megapixels on what size sensor? Image quality is not derived from the number of megapixels alone. The physical sensor size that contains those five megapixels can be as important as the sheer number of pixels. Three megapixels on a larger sensor can outperform five megapixels on a smaller one. And let's not forget the lens. Sounds like more of the old megapixels wars to me. Yawn. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 2:33 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure what your point is..no one knows what size the image sensor it has, let alone as you say the quality...but you are still dismissing it? Not dismissing it. I do, however, dismiss the megapixel wars as if that is the sole criteria by which to judge the capability of cameras. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
Of course, megapixel count is only one measure and in my opinion not a very important one. On Oct 19, 2009 6:41 AM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 2:33 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure what your point is..no o... Not dismissing it. I do, however, dismiss the megapixel wars as if that is the sole criteria by which to judge the capability of cameras. Steve * ** List info, ... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
On Oct 19, 2009, at 9:38 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Not dismissing it. I do, however, dismiss the megapixel wars as if that is the sole criteria by which to judge the capability of cameras. The optics and CCD in a phone are going to be terrible. To make it not terrible would require a much larger phone and nobody is going to do that. The purpose of having a camera in a phone is not to take good pictures. Hence crowing about a 5MP CCD is just silly. They are pitching to ignorant rubes. They need to be careful about starting an us vs. them comparison. They may find that all the pros for the Driod are things that don't matter to consumers while all the pros for the iPhone are things that really do matter. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
Are you talking about Apple or Verizon? I seem to recall Apple touting a camera in their phone...as well as one in the new ipod nanos. It's called marketing, all companies do it, some better then others, but I don't recall you blasting Apple when they touted their camera. You mentioned all the things that are missing from android, like what? On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 8:40 AM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Oct 19, 2009, at 9:38 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Not dismissing it. I do, however, dismiss the megapixel wars as if that is the sole criteria by which to judge the capability of cameras. The optics and CCD in a phone are going to be terrible. To make it not terrible would require a much larger phone and nobody is going to do that. The purpose of having a camera in a phone is not to take good pictures. Hence crowing about a 5MP CCD is just silly. They are pitching to ignorant rubes. They need to be careful about starting an us vs. them comparison. They may find that all the pros for the Driod are things that don't matter to consumers while all the pros for the iPhone are things that really do matter. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 11:40 AM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: The optics and CCD in a phone are going to be terrible. To make it not terrible would require a much larger phone and nobody is going to do that. Totally true. The purpose of having a camera in a phone is not to take good pictures. Hence crowing about a 5MP CCD is just silly. They are pitching to ignorant rubes. Many, perhaps even most folks who carry around a phone with a built-in camera appear to me to tend to use that to take most pictures as opposed to a real camera. It is seen as convenient, and for most folks, the images from such seem to be just fine. Ignorant rubes? Probably. However, ignorant rubes are the meat that makers of consumer gear tend to crave the most. They need to be careful about starting an us vs. them comparison. They may find that all the pros for the Driod are things that don't matter to consumers while all the pros for the iPhone are things that really do matter. Could be. But, never underestimate the propensity for the masses to make poor decisions. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
Well..we carry around little devices that carry our music that can't compete at all with larger more cumbersome devices. I don't think all ipod users are rubes just because they bought one. We carry around laptops that can't compete with desktop units, are all laptop buyers rubes? Or are they buying and using what works for them at the time they need something done? I've used cameras on phones for years, 99.9% of the time for fun, quick shots, unimportant but plenty good enough to send some silly picture to a friend. I've not been to many weddings, but I don't see professional photogs using phone cameras for the bride. It's all perspective, some of us might have 1000 dollar cameras, to the guy on a 30,000 Red, all those 1000 dollar camera buyers are ignorant rubes. On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 9:13 AM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote: Many, perhaps even most folks who carry around a phone with a built-in camera appear to me to tend to use that to take most pictures as opposed to a real camera. It is seen as convenient, and for most folks, the images from such seem to be just fine. Ignorant rubes? Probably. However, ignorant rubes are the meat that makers of consumer gear tend to crave the most. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
On Oct 19, 2009, at 12:13 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Ignorant rubes? Probably. However, ignorant rubes are the meat that makers of consumer gear tend to crave the most. Just look at the stats for the number of people who buy stuff from spammers. Here is a post from a totally hopeless DFB. Droid, the phone that finally lets me cancel my iPhone — here’s why http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/10/19/droid-the-phone-that-finally-lets-me-cancel-my-iphone-heres-why/ Anyone who goes on and on like this based solely on what they have been told my marketing types and other shills should have their keyboard taken away from them. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
On Oct 19, 2009, at 12:13 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Could be. But, never underestimate the propensity for the masses to make poor decisions. As I'm constantly reminded on this List. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
Still nothing, Tom? People on the list might be buying android phones and might want to know what you do about them. On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 9:01 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: You mentioned all the things that are missing from android, like what? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
On Oct 19, 2009, at 2:19 PM, mike wrote: Still nothing, Tom? People on the list might be buying android phones and might want to know what you do about them. Good luck fan boi. Buying one would be a neat trick as even the date they will go on sale has not been announced. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 12:31 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Well..we carry around little devices that carry our music that can't compete at all with larger more cumbersome devices. I don't think all ipod users are rubes just because they bought one. I think that you either misunderstood me or I failed to make my point clear enough. My point was that those folks who feel that images captured by their cell phone are just as good as what one can get from even a cheap or moderately priced camera are the rubes. I know a number of those folks. To them, a 5 megapixel image from a cell phone is the same as a 5 megapixel image from an actual camera. In other words, the pixel count is the bottom line...period. These folks did not think this up themselves, however. They have been convinced of this by manufacturers. We carry around laptops that can't compete with desktop units, are all laptop buyers rubes? No. Only those who think that their laptop can do everything just as efficiently and effectively as any desktop are the rubes. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
Figured as much, more from Tom the judge of stuff he hasn't seen. BTW, what is your point in saying stuff you clearly can't back up? On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 11:59 AM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Oct 19, 2009, at 2:19 PM, mike wrote: Still nothing, Tom? People on the list might be buying android phones and might want to know what you do about them. Good luck fan boi. Buying one would be a neat trick as even the date they will go on sale has not been announced. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
Steve, you are entirely right, and it is quite depressing to me how very many cameras have been sold on the basis of augmented megapixels. The sensor is key, and its size truly determines quality of image. Those of us who formerly were dedicated to excellence in the film era have wandered in a ten-year nightmare of mediocrity until now, only today can avail ourselves of cameras reasonably priced that come close to the real raw that Ken Rockwell http://www.kenrockwell.com/ describes as the capability of even 35mm. Set aside the former standards of rollfilm and 4x5, which, in the 1950's, were the province of ordinary press coverage. Truly depressing to see media and cultural acceptance today of the pedestrian. Interesting that Kodak, thought moribund, now produces the very best sensors anywhere, and that the new Leica M9 takes advantage of those, as do NASA probes, shunting the utterly sophomoric/complex entries of both Nikon and Canon sideways. One hopes that not long from now, the curses of shutter-lag, low dynamic range, inadequate color management will once again be overcome in cameras affordable and decipherable to all, both amateur and professional. That this is slightly off-topic, but a good chance to air some views, I apologise. Thank you. --- On Mon, 10/19/09, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.com wrote: From: phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Date: Monday, October 19, 2009, 9:38 AM On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 2:33 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure what your point is..no one knows what size the image sensor it has, let alone as you say the quality...but you are still dismissing it? Not dismissing it. I do, however, dismiss the megapixel wars as if that is the sole criteria by which to judge the capability of cameras. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
Perhaps I did misunderstand. Point of fact I've never met anyone who thought a phone cam was just as good as a regular camera. The people I have met just believe that at the time, a phone cam is just fine. Same as those with laptops, just fine. On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 11:56 AM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 12:31 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Well..we carry around little devices that carry our music that can't compete at all with larger more cumbersome devices. I don't think all ipod users are rubes just because they bought one. I think that you either misunderstood me or I failed to make my point clear enough. My point was that those folks who feel that images captured by their cell phone are just as good as what one can get from even a cheap or moderately priced camera are the rubes. I know a number of those folks. To them, a 5 megapixel image from a cell phone is the same as a 5 megapixel image from an actual camera. In other words, the pixel count is the bottom line...period. These folks did not think this up themselves, however. They have been convinced of this by manufacturers. We carry around laptops that can't compete with desktop units, are all laptop buyers rubes? No. Only those who think that their laptop can do everything just as efficiently and effectively as any desktop are the rubes. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
Good recommendation on the website! On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 12:03 PM, chad evans wyatt cewyattph...@yahoo.comwrote: Steve, you are entirely right, and it is quite depressing to me how very many cameras have been sold on the basis of augmented megapixels. The sensor is key, and its size truly determines quality of image. Those of us who formerly were dedicated to excellence in the film era have wandered in a ten-year nightmare of mediocrity until now, only today can avail ourselves of cameras reasonably priced that come close to the real raw that Ken Rockwell http://www.kenrockwell.com/ describes as the capability of even 35mm. Set aside the former standards of rollfilm and 4x5, which, in the 1950's, were the province of ordinary press coverage. Truly depressing to see media and cultural acceptance today of the pedestrian. Interesting that Kodak, thought moribund, now produces the very best sensors anywhere, and that the new Leica M9 takes advantage of those, as do NASA probes, shunting the utterly sophomoric/complex entries of both Nikon and Canon sideways. One hopes that not long from now, the curses of shutter-lag, low dynamic range, inadequate color management will once again be overcome in cameras affordable and decipherable to all, both amateur and professional. That this is slightly off-topic, but a good chance to air some views, I apologise. Thank you. --- On Mon, 10/19/09, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.com wrote: From: phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Date: Monday, October 19, 2009, 9:38 AM On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 2:33 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure what your point is..no one knows what size the image sensor it has, let alone as you say the quality...but you are still dismissing it? Not dismissing it. I do, however, dismiss the megapixel wars as if that is the sole criteria by which to judge the capability of cameras. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 3:13 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps I did misunderstand. Point of fact I've never met anyone who thought a phone cam was just as good as a regular camera. The people I have met just believe that at the time, a phone cam is just fine. Same as those with laptops, just fine. The camera in the phone may just be good enough for the situation. I was at book signing last week where the staff was taking your picture with the author (Alton Brown) with your camera if you wanted. Most everyone was handing over their cell phones for the purpose. I brought my point and shoot because I wanted a good picture. They had gotten really comfortable with the iPhone cameras by the time I made it to the front of the line. I did an inventory of the cameras I had on my person while I was in line. I had three- Cell phone LG EnV, iPod Nano and my point and shoot. I generally have two of the three with me. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
On Oct 18, 2009, at 12:33 AM, Reid Katan wrote: Microsoft has *the worst* advertising agency. Good thing for them that they already own so much market share. What's the easiest way to make a $million? | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | START WITH 2 $MILLION! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
On Oct 17, 2009, at 11:31 PM, mike wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPYM-XTqcecfeature=player_embedded Well done. Of course it doesn't mention all the things the Android does not have. Competition will be good. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
What are all the things it doesn't have? On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 12:02 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Oct 17, 2009, at 11:31 PM, mike wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPYM-XTqcecfeature=player_embedded Well done. Of course it doesn't mention all the things the Android does not have. Competition will be good. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 3:02 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: Well done. Of course it doesn't mention all the things the Android does not have. Competition will be good. Okay, apparently it has a five megapixel image sensor for its camera. So what? Five megapixels on what size sensor? Image quality is not derived from the number of megapixels alone. The physical sensor size that contains those five megapixels can be as important as the sheer number of pixels. Three megapixels on a larger sensor can outperform five megapixels on a smaller one. And let's not forget the lens. Sounds like more of the old megapixels wars to me. Yawn. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] android takes on iphone
Quoting mike xha...@gmail.com: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPYM-XTqcecfeature=player_embedded Not sure if this is Verizon or Moto or both, but they seem to be going head to head with Apple on their new phone. Whomever their marketing team is, They're also going after ATT. Showing coverage ares. There's a map for that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCbYTrYD5y8 it's safe to say it's not the same one MS uses. Microsoft has *the worst* advertising agency. Good thing for them that they already own so much market share. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
