Re: [CTRL] Frank Rizzo: Name Ring A Bell?

[RoadsEnd]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/5/99 7:48:32 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>Anyone know if name "Frank Rizzo" rings a bell? Was/is he
>mayor of Philadelphia? Or some other connection?

I say yes, I believe he 'rose' from Police Commish. Move was on his watch?

At least one Frank Rizzo . . .

Om
k

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==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Fwd: y2k -- READ THIS!!!!!!!!

[RoadsEnd]

Subj:   y2k
Date:   99-01-05 18:42:50 EST
From:   JDPoeland
To: J1mS1

Y2K and martial law
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_btl/19981208_xcbtl_y2k_and_ma.sht
ml

For those suspecting the federal government is making Y2K millennium bug
contingency plans that include the suspension of civil liberties, fears were
not allayed by the nation's Y2K czar at his first summit last week.

In answer to a question about electrical-power failures caused by embedded
chip problems and other millennium bug breakdowns, John Koskinen, the chairman
of President Clinton's Y2K council, said: "In a crisis and emergency
situation, the free market may not be the best way to distribute resources.
... If there's a point in time where we have to take resources and make a
judgment on an emergency basis, we will be prepared to do that."

Now what does that mean?  These guys don't think the free market is the best
way to distribute resources in the best of times.  But this statement requires
some explanation.  This is a statement that should prompt congressional
hearings -- out in public, not in executive session.  This is a statement that
brings to mind a history of executive orders mandating emergency presidential
powers that would make our  Founding Fathers spin in their graves.

Yet, I saw the chilling statement reported only by Wired News, which covered
the Y2K council's first summit in San Francisco last Thursday.  Nothing in the
Associated Press.  Nothing in the San Francisco papers.  Nothing on the major
networks.

Worse yet, even Wired News, which, thank heavens, saw fit to publish the
quote, did not choose to lead its story coverage with it.

Now, I can understand government seizing an opportunity for more power in a
crisis.  It's the nature of government to do just that.  What I don't
understand is how we could receive so many warnings by government officials of
their ominous plans for martial law beginning Jan. 1, 2000 without scrutiny by
the press, civil libertarians and other so-called government watchdogs.  Why
am I like a voice crying out in the wilderness  over this issue?

This is, by my count, at least the second major pronouncement by high-ranking
members of the Clinton administration that preparations are being made to
scrap the Constitution in the event of problems we know are coming on a date
just over a year away.

The first, to refresh your memories, came in June, when Sen. Robert Bennett,
chairman of the Senate's Year 2000 committee, was interviewing a top Pentagon
official, Deputy Defense Secretary John Hamre.  Here's how that exchange went:

Bennett:
"In the event of a Y2K-induced breakdown of community services that might call
for martial law," will the military be ready?

Hamre:
"We've got fundamental issues to deal with that go beyond just the Year 2000
contingency planning. And I think you're right to bring that up."

Understand that Bennett, a Republican from Utah, wasn't suspiciously asking
Hamre if the military was secretly planning a hideous martial law scenario.
He was knowingly asking him, apparently hopeful that the military would be
prepared to carry out it out.  [[ This plan/response has been in place for a
LONG time.  Anyone who wants a copy of the Exec. Order, let me know.  It
SHOULD be read by everyone -- *VERY* CAREFULLY!!! ]]

I know it's too much to ask, but shouldn't the members of the House Judiciary
Committee at least have all this in the back of their minds today as they
consider articles of impeachment against President Clinton?  Is this a leader
the nation can trust on the brink of a potential national crisis?  Is this a
man America can trust with  emergency powers?

Americans have come to believe their freedom is a permanent state.  When
people take their freedom for granted, it is most in peril.  Is it not
possible, with all we now know about the character of Bill Clinton, that he
would attempt to turn such a crisis into a semi-permanent presidency -- one
with imperial powers?  And, with all we know about the character of the
spineless Congress, is it unthinkable to imagine its members abdicating their
authority and collaborating in such an insidious scheme?

Am I being paranoid?  I don't think so.  After all, it's not me who is raising
the ugly specter of martial law in the context of the Y2K crisis.  It is the
United States government -- first in a public meeting between representatives
of the legislative and executive branches and now in a public summit convened
by the president's Y2K czar.  This is not a hallucination, folks.  It's
reality.  Hearings are being conducted.  Plans are being made.

Further evidence of this plot comes in the form of Presidential Decision
Directive 63, issued by Bill Clinton last May.  It calls for the development
of a plan to ensure "essential national security missions" as well as general
public health and safety by, you guessed it, the year 2000.

The carefully worded directive emphasizes the preservation of order, the
d

[CTRL] About historic American Indian population figures --

[RoadsEnd]

 -Caveat Lector-

Kris:  About historic American Indian population figures --

Not exactly that many.  Here is a quote from Alvin Josephy -- while a dated
Indian historian, his basic material even in 1995 was still considered the
most reliable to date on general facts like this.  Bracketed quotes are mine
here, but Josephy says (1991, *The Indian Heritage of America,* Houghton
Mifflin Co.):

p. 52-53   "Although many persons have tried to estimate how many Indians
inhabited the New World [this includes the entire Western Hemisphere --
north, central and south] by 1492, there is no agreement on the figure.  In
the past some have believed that there were as many as 75 million, others
cite a maximum of only 8 million.  Until recently, the most knowledgable
students estimated that there were somewhere between 15 and 20 million
Indians in the hemisphere when Columbus arrived, agreeing also that probably
only some 850,000 lived within the present boundaries of the contiguous
states of the United States, and considerably fewer father north in Canada
and Alaska.  The bulk of the population was found below the Rio Grande,
concentrated most heavily in the regions of the most intensive practice of
agriculture; and it was thought that perhaps 7 million or more people were
in Mexico, Central America, and the Caribbean prior to the white man's
arrival, and at least 10 million throughout South America, more than half of
them in the Andean highlands [Bolivia, Equador, Peru]. "

My thoughts:  Population figures are always interesting and always
important.  In fact there are entire books devoted now to analysis of
American Indian pop figures.  I don't have the latest one at hand.  However,
Josephy is still very well touted.  Suffice it to say that North America
held far fewer Indians at Columbus' entrance than people now believe and
Josephy is a very fine reference, although he is a generalist, not a high
brow scholar.  Few ever quibble with his general materials, they are well
researched.

Judith

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Judith, a lister came-up with this statement.
>
> My understanding is that during the period before colonization
> >native-americans numbered less then five million in the are we now call
> >the United States.
>
> What can you tell me?
>
> Om
> K
-
Aloha, He'Ping,
Om, Shalom, Salaam.
Em Hotep, Peace Be,
Omnia Bona Bonis,
All My Relations.
Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
Amen.
Roads End
Kris

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==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] hello (again)

[Jesse M Dolan]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Mon, 4 Jan 1999 06:43:50 -0500 YnrChyldzWyld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>On Sun, 3 Jan 1999, Jesse M Dolan wrote:
>>Hold on, I was the person who asked Teo if he was on Art Bell.
>Because I
>>was the one who started this whole thread of messages and somehow a
>>simple question turns into a strange fight or something.
>
>Hah!  She can't even remember her own posts from those of other
>people!
>:-7
>
>
>>Anyone else here totally confused.
>
>I for one am...she went off on me a few weeks ago when I posted a
>teasing
>reply to something she had posted regarding people from New England --
>took it as a personal affront...
>
>She apparantly had the same knee-jerk reaction to my satiric reply to
>Teo...
>
>She's sent me a private email saying she takes teasing as a personal
>insult...in which case, she'd be better off not even getting on the
>Internet, if the few teases from me get's her so bent out of shape,
>she'll go off the deep end when some really serious DEBATES get
>started...she needs to develop a thicker skin...
>
>She seems to be a person who can't take any criticism, even of a light
>and teasing type...one can only imagine what we'll see from her when
>someone REALLY takes her to task on some subject...
>
>
>>I think that everyone is getting confused and that
>>simple jokes were getting misunderstood as insults.
>
>Thank you.  Anyone who's been on this list for any amount of time
>knows
>that _I_ have been here for some time too...and that what I posted is
>extremely mild compared to what I COULD post (and have in the past)...
>
>I don't go looking for meaningless fights like Lynne seems to want to
>pick...but I don't run from them when they go out their way to find
>me,
>either...
>
>
>June

I hope that we can just let this go. If everyone drops this from their
mind and apologizes for stuff they did wrong and hopefully we can get
back to what this list is for, intelligent discussion. Not misunderstood
insults and things like that...


Jesse Dolan
"Insane Hippie"
"Chia Pet"
www.geocities.com/area51/stargate/8954/index.htm

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] hello (again)

[Jesse M Dolan]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Mon, 4 Jan 1999 00:00:20 - MARK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>That's easy for you to say, you haven't been insulted from here to
>next
>Sunday, stay out of the picture, bub!!
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Source - Richard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> Sent: 04 January 1999 10:51
>> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Subject:  Re: [CTRL] hello (again)
>>
>>  -Caveat Lector-
>>
>> I think it's time to take a deep breath and stop this bickering.
>Come
>> on guys - cool down.
>>



It's stuff like that that will keep this going on...


Jesse Dolan
"Insane Hippie"
www.geocities.com/area51/stargate/8954/index.htm

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] Lawyers Pick Gun Fight

[Linda Minor]

 -Caveat Lector-

from:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/1999-01/05/028r-010599-idx.html


After Tobacco Success, Lawyers Pick Gun Fight
Same Tactics Aimed at Firearms Industry
By David Segal
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, January 5, 1999; Page A01

For the past four years, a team of about 60 law firms from across the
country has rented a suite of offices in downtown New Orleans and made it
headquarters for the unprecedented legal assault against the tobacco
industry. Last week the offices got a make-over for the launch of a new
fight -- this time against the gun industry.

Cigarette files are being warehoused. Deploying the same tactics it brought
to the tobacco wars, the legal collective known as the Castano Group is
re-aiming its sights, hoping to earn millions in fees by suing gunmakers on
behalf of cities around the nation.

The Castano Group is the brainchild of Wendell Gauthier, a mass-injury
lawyer who made the first of several fortunes representing victims of hotel
fires and plane crashes. In 1994, he persuaded a group of 60 firms to
contribute $100,000 each to fund a war room to coordinate lawsuits against
the tobacco industry. The suits were based on the then-novel theory that the
cigarette companies should pay for the cost incurred by smokers to treat
their addiction.

Gauthier is now asking the same and other firms to chip in another $100,000
for the gun litigation. About 40 firms have accepted so far, and others are
expected to join soon, said John Coale, a District lawyer who is part of the
group. The money will cover the cost of depositions and research, as well as
a staff of paralegals and time logged by lawyers at Gauthier's firm.

Gun manufacturers, meanwhile, are on the verge of hiring corporate defense
firms capable of fending off a carefully orchestrated legal attack on a
national scale. Among the leading candidates for the job are several firms,
including Washington's Covington & Burling, that have toiled for tobacco
companies.

In sum, it could be deja sue all over again. The virtually inevitable brawl
over the gun business will likely feature many of the same combatants and
strategies that took center stage in the epic confrontation over tobacco.

"It's uncanny," said Stanley Chesley, a Cincinnati lawyer who is part of the
Castano Group, "but we just keep running into the same people in this
business."

In October, New Orleans became the first city to file suit against
gunmakers, demanding re dress for the cost of responding to shootings and
alleging that companies such as Glock Inc. and Smith & Wesson Corp. failed
to install safety devices that would prevent children and unauthorized users
from firing guns. Lawyers from the Castano Group, which takes its name from
an early tobacco plaintiff, are handling the case on behalf of the city.

Chicago followed with its own suit in November, offering other liability
theories, and more cities are expected to file soon. A variety of private
actions are in the works, too.

For critics of the cigarette settlement, the tobacco lawyers' new onslaught
fulfills an unhappy prophecy. Well before cigarette makers agreed in
November to pay more than $200 billion over 25 years to settle a host of
suits brought by attorneys general, Wall Street analysts and others
predicted that the money ultimately would fund new lunges at other
industries.

The Castano team has yet to profit from the tobacco litigation, because it
was not party to the actions by the attorneys general and its private class
actions are still pending. Still, Castano lawyers such as Coale expect a
tobacco payday and are unabashed about what they'll do with the money.

"People kept saying that we would go after the alcohol or fast-food
industries next," Coale said. "But we'd never do that. We enjoy liquor and
meat too much."

Meanwhile, several lawyers who scored big in the suits filed by the
attorneys general are eyeing the gun issue. For instance, Robert Kerrigan's
eight-person firm in Pensacola, Fla., pocketed $200 million for its work on
the tobacco settlement, part of a record-setting $3.4 billion in fees shared
by a handful of Florida law firms. He and his partners now are considering
whether to sue gunmakers, alleging that products such as assault weapons and
Saturday night specials have no legitimate use.

"I know the business community considers us a bunch of vultures who just got
done with one corpse and are looking for another," Kerrigan said. "But the
truth is that tobacco had to pay in no small measure because of what we
did."

Whether the gun litigation turns out to be the next legal gold rush is an
open question. Gunmakers aren't nearly as wealthy as the cigarette makers,
taking in about $3 billion to $4 billion a year, a fraction of the big
tobacco companies' yearly revenue. And Bob Ricker of the American Shooting
Sports Council, a trade association for gunmakers, vowed that his members
won't be intimidated into an out-of-court settlement, regardless of h

[CTRL] Caesar (Rockefellers) vs Covert Oligarchy of the Anglos

[Lloyd Miller]

 -Caveat Lector-

>Note, the Left-wing Institute for Policy Studies is funded by the Ford
>Foundation, which has traditionally been an Anglo-phile Foundation.  This
>alone does not discredit anyone, of course...
>But, then, if his connections with Davidson and Lord Rees-Mogg could be
>verified then we have a bonified connection between anti-Clinton
>agitation, the American Right and Left-wings, and the Anglo-American
>Establishment that is "big time news", and puts this whole thing in
>perspective.

Yes, very good!  Colby's connection to the Institute for Policy Studies is
evidence of
Anglophile leanings along with everything else.  Raskin founded IPS with
Warburg
money on the principle of opposing American Imperialism...Caesarism!  The
Warburgs also have old ties with the Rockefellers, but James Warburg who
left
the money to IPS, had definitely moved to the anti-US Imperialism,
anti_Rockefeller
and pro-Anglophile position.  The Anglos do not look to brutal world
Caesarism as do the
Rockefellers and the Pope.  Rather they want an idealistic "looking" world
federalism
with big money quietly manipulating things through proven divide and conquer
tactics
from behind the scenes with a semblance of the rule of law.

They seem to want the Super Powers, including America broken-up in order to
achieve
their vision.  But China must be broken-up as well.

***
Lloyd Miller, Research Director for A-albionic Research (POB 20273,
Ferndale, MI 48220), a ruling class/conspiracy research resource for the
entire political-ideological spectrum.  Quarterly journal, book sales,
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==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] [prj] Y2K--Why Not Buy New Software?

[Lloyd Miller]

 -Caveat Lector-

By "folks", I am including the major corporations who run the electricity,
etc.
-Original Message-
From: I Wanna Be Me Again <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] [prj] Y2K--Why Not Buy New Software?


-Caveat Lector-

How will that help when there is no electricity, no water and no access to
banks?
How will you operate your computer with your new software when you have no
electricity and no telephone service?  Are you really
relying upon "I didn't do it" Willie for reassurance?

The scope and  seriousness of losing our power, communications and banking
systems simultaneously will immediately shatter the
functioning of everything, including federal and state government.  It is my
understanding that the coming Y2k disaster has the
potential to be brutally destructive and a direct threat to individual
survival.

 Sherry. aka Tapshoe
When everyone else is walking out the door,
 the true friend walks in
http://www.angelfire.com/wy/seekGOVinvestigation/

Lloyd Miller wrote:

> Buy Music CD's On-Line at Music Boulevard
http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/32653_0_bb/bb200.txt <<  END
> -Original Message-
> From: Ian Goddard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Lloyd Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 10:44 PM
> Subject: Re: Pro-panic (fwd)--Y2K
>
> At 09:16 PM 1/4/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >Maybe someone can answer this question for me.  Why don't folks just
> >purchase new y2K compliant software.  Export the old data from the old
> >softwareAutomatically alter all the old dates in the old data to a
> >compliant format and then up-load the data into the new softwarethis
> >would seem to be the best investment of time and money.
>
>   Good point. Maybe the central conspirators are running
> the bug-fixing racket and planned the bug crisis. They'll
> cash in to the tune of billions and then sit back in their
> remote estates while Y2K culls the herd. Several people
> have told me they've read or heard accounts of programmers
> who warned people years ago about Y2K, and they were just
> ignored. Could be psychology, or maybe it was the plan.
>
> Please Patronize PRJ's Advertisers: http://home.msen.com/~daugh/store.htm
Many Pay Even If You Just Look and Don't Buy!  <<  END

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==
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propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Frank Rizzo: Name Ring A Bell?

[Brian Redman]

 -Caveat Lector-

Anyone know if name "Frank Rizzo" rings a bell? Was/is he
mayor of Philadelphia? Or some other connection?

Brian Redman   | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.shout.net/~bigred/cn.html
Editor-in-Chief| ---Phone: 217-356-4418
Conspiracy Nation  |   "The perfect slave thinks he's free."

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] CIA-DRUGS ALERT!

[Linda Minor]

 -Caveat Lector-

From: "Mike Ruppert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



THERE WILL BE NO HEARINGS ON VOLUME II IN THE HOUSE PERMANENT SELECT
COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE IN FEBRUARY

11:53 AM - Tues, Jan, 5, 1998

Los Angeles - Just minutes ago I hung up after speaking with a source on the
House Permanent Select committee on Intelligence (HPSCI). The source stated
that, contrary to previously published reports in The San Jose Mercury News,
it would not be possible for HPSCI to hold hearings on Volume II any sooner
than February. The cited reasons for this are telling.

The Committee is not yet constituted and there are several key vacancies.
Ranking Democrat Norman Dicks (D), Washington has rotated out of the
Committee after eight years. This was mandatory. Jane Harman (R) CA, left
the House to run for Governor and Congressman David Skaggs (D), CO has
retired.

These vacancies leave open the possibility for serious and important
developments. The Ranking Democratic member will wield enormous influence
and will, next to the Chairman (retired CIA operative Porter Goss), have a
lot to say about the scope and nature of the hearings on Vol. II. The new
ranking member will be chosen by House Minority Leader Dick Gephardt who
will, no doubt, consult with President Clinton beforehand.

Wish List: Maxine Waters as a new member of the Committee. Better yet - as
ranking member!

Given the pressure already placed on the Committee by public pressure to
hold well publicized hearings with a reasonable witness list I now think it
unlikely that HPSCI will hold hearings at all before the planned April 29th
demonstration at Florence and Normandie.

My story on the Calculus of Impeachment including CIA drug dealing has been
picked up by the Progressive Review www.prorev.com and apparently the Drudge
report as well. I had four visitors to my web site, www.copvcia.com,  this
AM from the drudge page. The progressive review has added additional
material making my scenario even more likely and credible.

That story is producing the biggest "AHA!" I have ever heard from both the
left and the right. A lot of people are now actually reading Vol. II.

Remember that the Bully Pulpit can, at any time, draw attention to Volume
II. So can the people if they put their mind to it.

Mike Ruppert
>From The Wilderness
www.copvcia.com



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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Message from RMNews Sources to RMNews Readers URGENT

[RoadsEnd]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/5/99 2:27:39 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>>FYI --not an endorsement--
>>
>>Om
>>
>>k
>>
>>

>Kris,
>
>I'm curious by this statement.  Do you find RuMills not a reliable source of
information?
>
>Hilary

First, this particualr posting seemed to be asking for political action.
Basically, I am not endorsing her call to political action, en masse to force
a 'trial'. I believe, if Clinton were a gentleman he would resign. Obviously,
we are not dealing with a gentleman . . .

Secondly, I know of RuMills, from the net, I have no basis to judge what is
said, other than by content. Also, in dealing, with info such as this type and
sources, one WILL find dis/mis. It is a job of a reasearcher to give weight,
knowledge and discernment towards understanding. Mis and dis can be very
useful in understanding, one must be prepared not to believe what one reads,
but to consider many questions.

RuMills may be valid, but all info being given is not altruistic and just like
the old spy novels, ya spread story around, with differring varations, to
smoke the weevils out of the bole. We ARE dealing with intel modius oprendi.

Look at the build-up towards JFK, ya had Miami and Chicago, before Dallas,
All smoke-jobs - to shake the tree, so the real deal runs smooth.

So, as always, caveat lector . . . and look before you leap!

Om
K

PS Hilary, your post are coming in dark blue cover and have a trail of
htmlese.;-(

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] The Octopus, Inslaw, PROMIS, Systematics and The Tentacles of Corruption - The Links

[Linda Minor]

 -Caveat Lector-

Bill Kingsbury wrote:

>THE OCTOPUS - THE TENTACLES OF CORRUPTION
>
>http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3691e2526c13.htm



Thanks for this post, Bill.  Here's one of my favorite articles about
Jackson Stephens, gleaned from the site:


http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3681913c21d4.htm

Jackson Stephens: The man and the myth.
Among the many distinctions afforded Arkansas billionaire tycoon Jackson
Stephens is the fact that his firm, Stephens Inc. marshaled the WTI hazardoi
as waste incinerator's march from conception to birth. In our opinion, it
was the power of his financial empire that moved a poorly designed
monstrosity on the Ohio River from the truly dumb idea that it was (and is)
to its current manifestation as an ugly and dangerous reality.

In an attempt to understand why the U.S. government, particularly U.S. EPA
Region 5, committed so many illegalities and allowed this incinerator to be
built, it helps to understand that Jackson Stephens always gets what he
wants. In fact, no matter what you think about him, it is hard to deny that
he seems to be everywhere, with his hands on everything.

Stephens is the chairman of Stephens Inc., the nation's largest investment
bank off Wall Street. Its home office is located in little ol' Little Rock,
Arkansas. He and his brother, Witt, built the Stephens Inc. empire out of a
bible, belt buckle and bond business. In 1994, Stephens Inc. was listed as
one of the biggest institutional shareholders in 30 large multinationals
including the Arkansas based firms Tyson Food (# 10), Wal-Mart (# 113) and
Alltel (# 12). Interestingly, it was Stephens who staked Sam Walton when he
started Wal-Mart in 1970, and financed Tyson's takeover of Holly Farms in
1988. (Stephens, Tyson and Walton (1917-1992), all billionaires from
Arkansas.) Stephens sold a 275 phone exchange to Alltel when they broke into
the phone market, and guaranteed in 1990 that Alltel would get Systematics
by refusing to sell his 10% stake in Systematics to anyone but Alltel. In
many ways Arkansas is the house that Jack built. Unfortunately, for the
folks in East Liverpool, Ohio, and the Tri-State area (WV, PA, OH) who were
saddled with Von Roll's hazardous waste incinerator, Arkansas was never big
enough for Stephens.

Stephens Inc. and WTI.

According to the Ohio Attorney General's report on WTI in 1993: "It was
'Waste Technologies, Incorporated' in the late seventies, a group of
companies owned by Jackson Stephens of Little Rock, Arkansas that became
interested in the possibility of developing industrial waste incinerators
which could be used to generate power. One of the Stephens companies
commissioned Battelle Memorial Institute to do a survey of industrial waste
generation patterns in the United States. The Battelle study was finalized
in 1978. After the study was complete, the Stephens-owned company (known
then as Waste Technologies, Incorporated) hired Don Brown, who had worked on
the study during his employment at Battelle. Don Brown helped make the
decision that the eastern Ohio area was a feasible site for such an
incinerator, based on the nationwide waste generation patterns study. Brown
was from East Liverpool and had contacts to local officials there. In late
1979 or early 1980, Don Brown approached the Mayor of East Liverpool, John
Payne [his former college room-mate, ed.], about the idea of locating a
waste-to-energy incinerator in the area. Mayor Payne referred Brown to the
Columbiana County Port Authority ..." upon whose land the incinerator would
later be built. So with the financial backing of Jackson Stephens and his
company, the WTI incinerator was launched in traditional business fashion:
wheeling, dealing and brazen political fixing.

Some of the Skeletons in Jack's Closet.
Jack Stephens has a unique flair for wheeling and dealin". After all, you
don't get to be one of the wealthiest people in the nation without being
good at it. Of course it also pays to be in the right place at the right
time. In 1946 he graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy with Jimmy Carter.
Adams & Frantz go so far as to claim that Carter and Stephens were roommates
at the Naval Academy (A Full Service Bank, 1992). 30 years later, President
Carter's friend Bert Lance, the man Carter had picked to run the Office of
Management and Budget, was in trouble. Lance's dealings with the National
Bank of Georgia (NOB) were being questioned on Capitol Hill because of
allegations that he had received favorable loan treatment from the bank as
an insider. In August 1977, Stephens arrived on the scene and introduced
Indonesian business tycoon Mochtar Riady* to Bert Lance. At the time, Riady
was set to buy Lance's 200,000 plus shares of National Bank of Georgia stock
(Associated Press, August 20, 1977).

That evidently didn't happen though. Instead, Stephens and Riady bought a
bank in Hong Kong. Later Stephens would invite Riady to invest in a Little
Rock, Arkansas bank called Worthen as well.

[CTRL] Fwd: THE SCOOP: Race, Walk, Run, & Shout

[RoadsEnd]

THE SCOOP for January 5, 1998
___

Race, Walk, Run, & Shout
Some People Learn, Some People Don't
© 1998 Bob Harris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

[] = italics



There's nothing worse than guilt by association.

OK, I suppose having your shoulder blades buffed with a power sander is
worse.  Or swallowing a sewing kit.  That's a [lot]worse than guilt by
association.  So is sipping on a thumbtack daiquiri.  Flossing with a
nail gun.  Bobbing for lobsters.  Dating a fashion model.

So to be exact, except for about a half-dozen things no one in their
right mind would do, there's nothing worse than guilt by association.

That's what McCarthyism was about.  Somebody would merely say they saw
you talking to a communist, and then next thing you know all the good
writers in Hollywood get blacklisted, and pretty soon [The Waterboy] is
number one at the box office.

Oh the humanity.

So guilt by association is bad.

Not as bad as dating a model.

But it's bad.

But it's different if the person in question, say, actually chooses to
attend communist party meetings, contributes a column to a communist
journal, and lets his name be used to promote communist causes, all with
full knowledge of what it's about.  Then it's no more of a stretch to
say he supports the communist party than it is to say that Castro
supports the cigar industry, Casey Kasem supports pop music, and Pauly
Shore supports comedy.  None of them have anything directly to do with
the enterprise, but their efforts suggest more than a passing interest,
futile though it may be.

With me so far?  There's something just like that, but different, to
talk about.

There's a group called the Council of Conservative Citizens you might
want to know about.  They [call] themselves conservative, but check
their website at www.cofcc.org, and you'll see that they're a direct
descendant of the White Citizens groups who so bitterly fought against
civil rights and equality for all Americans.  One click from the CCC
homepage brings you to screeds exposing the alleged dark secrets of
Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King and even calling for a second
Civil War to preserve the white race.  The page also maintains direct
links to the National Front, an openly and unashamedly fascist group,
and a bunch of white supremacist newsletters and organizations.

Suppose for a minute that some prominent national leader, like say
President Clinton, endorsed that group, had close family who belonged,
spoke several times at their functions, and contributed to their
newsletter.  And suppose that the guy's spokesman misled the press to
cover it up?  Wouldn't you want to know?

Suppose for a minute that the information was publicized in one of the
biggest newspapers in America.  Wouldn't you expect there to be a
firestorm of protest from the "liberal" media?  Wouldn't the decent
people who make up most of this country demand a full explanation and
possibly a resignation?

You'd think, wouldn't you?

OK.  Trent Lott.  The Senate Majority Leader.  He's really tight with
the Council of Conservative Citizens.

That's every bit as newsworthy as who anybody is sleeping with, isn't
it?

I mean, [isn't it?]

You want to know more?  Check out the stories by Thomas Edsall online at
http://www.washingtonpost.com.

___

Some people would walk a mile for a Camel.  An 89-year-old New Hampshire
woman is walking 3000 miles so that Camel won't have that kind of
influence anymore.

Doris Haddock, who is no relation to the fish, will be spending 1999
walking all the way from Los Angeles to Washington, D.C. in a one-woman
crusade for campaign finance reform.

In an effort to show Washington that the American people do indeed want
to clean up the way campaigns are financed, Miz Haddock is walking ten
miles a day, carrying everything she needs on her back, and spending the
night wherever her sleeping bag hits the ground.  And she's meeting with
community groups and politicians at every stop along the way.

She started her trip at the Rose Parade in Pasadena on New Year's Day,
and she's hoping to get to Washington by October.  If you want more
information, check out her website, at http://www.grannyd.com.  There's
a map of her route, a copy of the petition she's handing out, and a
really cool picture of her with a knapsack.

Y'know, Granny D here is trying to change the way we choose our
politicians, but thinking about the effort she's putting into this at
her age -- just because she gives a damn about our country -- maybe
there's an even simpler solution:

[Doris Haddock for President.]

___

Thanks to the way Congress spends the educational budget, the three R's
are apparently now Reading, 'Riting, and Re-Election campaigns.

In a given year's federal budget, the federal Department of Education is
only able to allocate about ten percent of its resources to
discretionary stuff -- innovative programs, reforms, research on new
teaching techniques, and

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: [FTC] Dangerous NAFTA Trucks Invade US

[Gerald Harp]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/5/99 6:05:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

>
>  About ten years ago, I drove into Mexico..  After having done so, I
>  decided to never do it again

Having heard similar things several times, i certainly believe you.  I spent
the summer of 1962 in Mexico.  The crime rate was quite low despite the
poverty.  More than once i found myself alone in poor areas of the city in the
wee hours and felt perfectly safe.  What in the world has happened over the
past 27 years?

Jerry

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Fw: [InTheShadows] Thai scientists to clone rare white elephant

[Hilary Thomas]

 -Caveat Lector-

This seems a bit timely.

Hilary


-Original Message-
From: Dan S <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: isml <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 7:53 PM
Subject: [InTheShadows] Thai scientists to clone rare white elephant


>From: Dan S <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>From:
>http://www.exn.ca/html/templates/htmlpage.cfm?ID=19990104-57&Parent=Science
>-
>Thai scientists plan to clone rare white elephant   January 4, 1999
>
>Scientists in Thailand are hoping to bring back a royal elephant that
>died more than a hundred years ago. They hope to clone the white
>elephant from its remains which have been preserved in alcohol for
>posterity.
>
>"If possible, we scientists hope to clone this elephant since it is the
>best one ever found in the country," Chisanu Tiyscharoensri at Mahidol
>University's Institute of Science and Technology for Research and
>Development in Bangkok told the Bangkok Post.
>
>"Entirely white" and "extremely rare", the animal belonged to the 19th
>century monarch, King Rama III, who ruled Thailand from 1824 to 1851.
>
>The elephant is Thailand's national symbol, but deforestation and
>poaching are causing its numbers to dwindle. The white elephant –
>characterized by its lighter-coloured skin – is rare. Believed to bring
>good luck, all white elephants in Thailand are automatically the
>property of the Royal family.
>
>Inspired by Japanese scientists who are attempting to resurrect the
>mammoth, the team of scientists at Mahidol University has already
>succeeded in cloning a cow and hope their ten-year project will bring
>back a truly white-coloured elephant.
>
>But, their hope may remain just that – hope.
>
>"No one has ever succeeded in reconstructing a cell from preserved DNA,"
>says Dave Evans, acting chair of molecular biology and genetics at the
>University of Guelph. "People have been suggesting that they might get
>mammoths back from [the remains of] frozen mammoths. But, even with
>frozen cells, they're so badly damaged by the freezing, the basic
>chromosomal structure is all degraded."
>
>And alcohol would degrade the genetic material required for a
>successful  cloning too, says Evans.
>
>"Alcohol is used as a preservative because it's a dehydrating agent,"
>says Evans. He can't see how the nucleus (which contains all the genetic
>material) of any of the elephant's cells could remain intact when
>alcohol kills the lipid membranes which make the nucleus.
>
>While Evans points out that scientists have recovered some genes from
>old DNA and have even sequenced them from the frozen mammoths which
>roamed the Earth tens of thousands of years ago, he predicts it will be
>a long time before we're able to recover the nucleus required to clone
>an animal from such an old specimen.
>
>
>--
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
>InTheShadows (formally the list known as exploration) is a discussion list
dedicated to keeping up-to-date with new technologies, advancements in
medicine, environmental concerns, 'conspiracy theories', politics, and, of
course, UFO stuff.  Discussion is encouraged.  Bashing and soapboxing will
get you bounced off the list.
>
>To subscribe to InTheShadows go to:
>
>http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/InTheShadows
>
>You can write me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>List Moderator:  Hilary Thomas
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Two Cows (humor)

[RoadsEnd]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/5/99 5:16:35 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>we need Gorbachev back.
>
>Jerry

Well, maybe like a spot on the head . . .

Gorby hangs at The Presido, living large and throwing bashes and can't get the
silly public excited.

Durn'nit, anyway.

Om
K
-
Aloha, He'Ping,
Om, Shalom, Salaam.
Em Hotep, Peace Be,
Omnia Bona Bonis,
All My Relations.
Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
Amen.
Roads End
Kris

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Two Cows (humor)

[Hawk]

 -Caveat Lector-

Gerald Harp wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> > >
> >  > CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.
> >  >
>
> This single line for capitalism which makes it sound like a right smart system
> while the alternatives are described with multiple sentences and none too
> flatteringly is not well balanced.

Is there a "balance" between Truth and Error?  What would it be, "Sorta right?"

> I don't know what the right add-on should be but as it is, it doesn't account
> for the ruthless quality of capitalism which leaves 41 million Americans below
> the poverty line.

Capitalism doesn't "leave" anyone below the poverty line.  You pays your money and
you makes your choice.  I've been below the poverty line, and capitalism is what
made it possible for me to rise above it... It sure as hell wasn't welfare!

> It is also silent about the harsher tone of American capitalism that developed
> after the fall of the Soviet Union.  For the sake of the Russian people and the
> American people, we need Gorbachev back.

You're serious?  For your information, Gorbechev IS back... He is lounging in
palatial splendor in the Presidio -- courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer --  just
outside of San Francisco... While your pathetic masses are wallowing in poverty.
Great guy, Gorbechev.. ex-honcho of the Gulag.  Give me a break!

Hawk

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Two Cows (humor)

[JoAnne Schmitz]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 5 Jan 1999 20:16:25 EST, you, Gerald Harp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
>In a message dated 1/5/99 2:03:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>writes:
>
>> >
>>  > CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.
>>  >
>
>This single line for capitalism which makes it sound like a right smart system
>while the alternatives are described with multiple sentences and none too
>flatteringly is not well balanced.  I don't know what the right add-on should
>be but as it is,

How about just changing the first one to

CAPITALISM:  You have two female slaves.  You sell one and buy a male slave.

-JoAnne, tying two threads together neatly.

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Re: [CTRL] Hundreds protest police killing of black teen in Calif...

[Gerald Harp]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/5/99 4:38:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

> someone
>  sitting in a car that is running and has a flat tire, if having gone on
for,
>  say, an hour, would be reason for ME to inquire if I were a police officer

Hey, how does the cop know she wasn't a commie?

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] THE NEA'S GRAB-BAG OF ISSUES

[Gerald Harp]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/5/99 4:19:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

>
> o   It wants the U.S. to nationalize health care, start a
> nuclear freeze, adopt national energy policies and pass
> more gun-control laws.

Run in circles, scream and shout.

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==
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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[CTRL] THE SCOOP: Race, Walk, Run, & Shout

[Hilary Thomas]

 -Caveat Lector-

-Original Message-
From: Bob Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 7:15 PM
Subject: THE SCOOP: Race, Walk, Run, & Shout


THE SCOOP for January 5, 1998
___

Race, Walk, Run, & Shout
Some People Learn, Some People Don't
© 1998 Bob Harris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

[] = italics



There's nothing worse than guilt by association.

OK, I suppose having your shoulder blades buffed with a power sander is
worse.  Or swallowing a sewing kit.  That's a [lot]worse than guilt by
association.  So is sipping on a thumbtack daiquiri.  Flossing with a
nail gun.  Bobbing for lobsters.  Dating a fashion model.

So to be exact, except for about a half-dozen things no one in their
right mind would do, there's nothing worse than guilt by association.

That's what McCarthyism was about.  Somebody would merely say they saw
you talking to a communist, and then next thing you know all the good
writers in Hollywood get blacklisted, and pretty soon [The Waterboy] is
number one at the box office.

Oh the humanity.

So guilt by association is bad.

Not as bad as dating a model.

But it's bad.

But it's different if the person in question, say, actually chooses to
attend communist party meetings, contributes a column to a communist
journal, and lets his name be used to promote communist causes, all with
full knowledge of what it's about.  Then it's no more of a stretch to
say he supports the communist party than it is to say that Castro
supports the cigar industry, Casey Kasem supports pop music, and Pauly
Shore supports comedy.  None of them have anything directly to do with
the enterprise, but their efforts suggest more than a passing interest,
futile though it may be.

With me so far?  There's something just like that, but different, to
talk about.

There's a group called the Council of Conservative Citizens you might
want to know about.  They [call] themselves conservative, but check
their website at www.cofcc.org, and you'll see that they're a direct
descendant of the White Citizens groups who so bitterly fought against
civil rights and equality for all Americans.  One click from the CCC
homepage brings you to screeds exposing the alleged dark secrets of
Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King and even calling for a second
Civil War to preserve the white race.  The page also maintains direct
links to the National Front, an openly and unashamedly fascist group,
and a bunch of white supremacist newsletters and organizations.

Suppose for a minute that some prominent national leader, like say
President Clinton, endorsed that group, had close family who belonged,
spoke several times at their functions, and contributed to their
newsletter.  And suppose that the guy's spokesman misled the press to
cover it up?  Wouldn't you want to know?

Suppose for a minute that the information was publicized in one of the
biggest newspapers in America.  Wouldn't you expect there to be a
firestorm of protest from the "liberal" media?  Wouldn't the decent
people who make up most of this country demand a full explanation and
possibly a resignation?

You'd think, wouldn't you?

OK.  Trent Lott.  The Senate Majority Leader.  He's really tight with
the Council of Conservative Citizens.

That's every bit as newsworthy as who anybody is sleeping with, isn't
it?

I mean, [isn't it?]

You want to know more?  Check out the stories by Thomas Edsall online at
http://www.washingtonpost.com.

___

Some people would walk a mile for a Camel.  An 89-year-old New Hampshire
woman is walking 3000 miles so that Camel won't have that kind of
influence anymore.

Doris Haddock, who is no relation to the fish, will be spending 1999
walking all the way from Los Angeles to Washington, D.C. in a one-woman
crusade for campaign finance reform.

In an effort to show Washington that the American people do indeed want
to clean up the way campaigns are financed, Miz Haddock is walking ten
miles a day, carrying everything she needs on her back, and spending the
night wherever her sleeping bag hits the ground.  And she's meeting with
community groups and politicians at every stop along the way.

She started her trip at the Rose Parade in Pasadena on New Year's Day,
and she's hoping to get to Washington by October.  If you want more
information, check out her website, at http://www.grannyd.com.  There's
a map of her route, a copy of the petition she's handing out, and a
really cool picture of her with a knapsack.

Y'know, Granny D here is trying to change the way we choose our
politicians, but thinking about the effort she's putting into this at
her age -- just because she gives a damn about our country -- maybe
there's an even simpler solution:

[Doris Haddock for President.]

___

Thanks to the way Congress spends the educational budget, the three R's
are apparently now Reading, 'Riting, and Re-Election campaigns.

In a given year's f

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

[Hawk]

 -Caveat Lector-

YnrChyldzWyld wrote:

> On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Hawk wrote:
>
> >Maybe I should have said "Domesticated Indian elephants."  You're back to talking
> about "wild" elephants that "belong to the people."
>
> And just WHERE do you think those 'domesticated Indian elephants' get
> PARKED?

Most elephants do not get parked...

> Do you really think that privately owned Indian elephants in the increasingly
> urbanized southeast Asia get put into garages, complete with automatic dooropeners,
> every night?

Nope... hadn't thought that at all.  Why would you suppose such an absurd thing?

> I stand by my statement...the DOMESTICATED Indian elephant is also in
> trouble, due to the loss of its natural habitat.

The domesticated elephant does not live in "natrual habitat."  Presumably he gets
parked in garages with automatic door openers... right?  I have a horse, for instance,
that does not live in "natural habitat."  She's far healthier and has a chance of
living to be 25 or so years, unlike the horses still striving for survial in "natural
habitat."

> your contention was that AFRICAN elephants should be privately owned like some Indian
> elephants are...ignoring the FACT that African elephants are basically untrainable.

Training has nothing whatsoever to do with it.  If people owned African elephants, and
there resources were dependent on the elephant's welfare, they would take care of them
and the elephants would be better off.

> You also ignore the fact of the USES the Indian elephant was put to, and
> therefore fail to recognize WHY the Indian elephant, privately owned tho
> many of them may be, is becoming increasingly rare...

If there is no use for them, why the expense and effort to keep them alive?

> It would make as much sense to argue that Saudis and Kuwaitis should go
> back to using camels instead of driving cars...

Frankly, my dear, I don't care what Saudis and Kuwaitis use... it is none of my
business.

> I would not presume to second-guess God's mind in WHY elephants...or any
> other species...was put on Earth...neither would I presume to state that
> eliminating any species would have little, or no, effect on the greater
> whole...

Then you shouldn't presume that preserving the species is worth the effort either.

> But my guess is that God will treat each one of us by the way we treated
> the lesser species in our care/dominion...

Guess to your heart's content... so long as you don't force me to pay for it.

Hawk

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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
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Re: [CTRL] Read this post. It is about senseless and cruel men an...

[Gerald Harp]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/5/99 3:15:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

> For instance, Lebenon was once known for its forests. I
>  understand that has greatly changed. Many other areas of the earth have
>  also been depleted. I believe this was the case in many parts of the
>  "New World" even before the arrival of the "white man"

The Semites of the Near East are caucasian.  You are apparently thinking
European and saying white.

Jerry

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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
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Re: [CTRL] Rachel's Enviroment & Health WEEKLY #631

[Gerald Harp]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/5/99 3:01:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

>
>  So are you saying that we need to return to the polocies of Ronald
>  Reagan who had been president during this last expansion?
>
>  best wishes, Howard Davis
>

I hope not.  I have not made the averages but according to the BLS, the
December average weekly industry (nonfarm payroll) earnings in $1982 for 1972
was $317 (the peak year), in 1980, just before Reagan, it had slipped to $274,
in 1989 it was down to $262.  Clinton has not been good for the average guy
but neither was Reagan.  With Clinton, however, there is less openly expressed
bigotry and there is a sense that the president is trying to make things fair
ala higher minimum wages, Family Medical Leave Act, an attempt to enact
universal medical insurance.  Reagan clearly had the opinion that trickle down
is best.

Jerry

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==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

[Hawk]

 -Caveat Lector-

Gerald Harp wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> >>  and history.  For your information, the typical Negro slave received back,
> > over the period of   his life, about 90% of the wealth he produced... He had a
> longer life  expectency than white   Europeans of the time, and was better off
> in practically every measurable  aspect of economic   life and physical health
> than was any  "peasant class" worker in the world  ( specifically factory
> workers in the industrial north and Europe).
>
> You must be living in a dream world, have you been shooting something into
> your arm?

Nope... and I live in the real world... And from your post, I seem to have a
better comprehension of it than the likes of you.

> If you learned very little in school, it is not too late.

Oh, I "learned" a lot in school... Apparently the same thing you learned.
Fortunately, I was able to "un-learn" the bullshit that was presented.
Unfortunately, you don't seem to have learned anything except the propoganda... It
MAY be too late.

> I suggest you read Bullwhip Days to unburden yourself of the scales that cover
> your eyes.

"Bullwhip" huh?  Sounds charming.  Since we are suggesting things to each other,
while there is one suggestion that I am tempted to make, I will, instead,
encourage you to read "Time On the Cross" by PulitzerPrize-winning author William
Fogel.  You might learn something.

Hawk

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Two Cows (humor)

[Howard R. Davis III]

 -Caveat Lector-

Gerald Harp wrote:
>
 I don't know what the right add-on should
> be but as it is, it doesn't account for the ruthless quality of capitalism
> which leaves 41 million Americans below the poverty line.
***
How many of those 41 million Americans would be defined as poor in most
third world countries? Or second world countries for that matter?

It is also silent
> about the harsher tone of American capitalism that developed after the fall of
> the Soviet Union.  For the sake of the Russian people and the American people,
> we need Gorbachev back.

You mean that American capitalism is worse under the administration of a
Democratic president?

best wishes, Howard Davis

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==
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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Doomsday Cult

[nurev]

 -Caveat Lector-

Sno0wl wrote:
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> On  3 Jan 99 , Boogie wrote:
>
> > EIGHT members of an American doomsday cult were arrested in Jerusalem
> > yesterday, suspected of planning a shoot-out with police which, they
> > believe, would hasten the end of the world and take them to heaven.
> > According to Israeli police, the cultists, who had six children with them,
> > planned "extremists acts" on Jerusalem streets in the final days of 1999
> > to hasten the second coming of the Messiah. A police source said the cult
> > members believed that being killed by police "would lead them to heaven
> > and start the process of bringing Jesus back to life". Violence was
> > planned for Jerusalem's Old City, possibly the Temple Mount, site of the
> > Jewish temple destroyed in AD 70 and now occupied by the Muslim shrine of
> > the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa mosque.
> >
> > The group is an advance guard of 78 members of the Concerned Christians
> > cult who sold their property and disappeared from Denver last October and
> > were believed to be heading to Jerusalem. Their leader, Monte Kim Miller,
>
> Okay--so they're rounding up these folks because there is a
> possibility that they are a danger to themselves and others.
> Now...where do they put them until after the Millenium event? Will
> they be contained somewhere? Monitored?  Let free but with
> limited freedom to move or travel?  Have they done anything illegal
>  YET, other than leave their homes and move to Jerusalem?
>
> Seems like a double-bind here.  And an interesting ethical  and
> human rights issue.
>
> sno0wl

Not an issue at all. They are nuts. They want to blow up things. They
are foreigners with no rights at all. They should be put in the
slammer
for life just like the terrorists here.

J2

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] [Fwd: Xtians and Khazars.]

[nurev]

 -Caveat Lector-

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> So what?  If they keep Torah, whether Jews by heritage or conversion, then
> they have become children of Abraham.
>
> If, in addition, they come to embrace Yeshua HaMoshiach (Jesus the Messiah) as
> Messiah God, as more and more Jews are doing, then they have become completed
> Jews.

Not at all. They will have become ex-Jews and Christian converts.
That's ok if
you wasn't to trade one kind of superstitious nonsense for an other,
but it is
un-Jewish to worship a human as a deity. And, when one worships Jesus
as a
deity, one is a Christian by definition. There is no such thing as a
Jewish
Christian.

> And Christians who take the trouble to study and understand Torah
> enough to incorporate it into their lives have become *firmly* grafted into
> the vine.

I don't know what this mumbo jumbo means.

>
> Yeshua / Jesus said He came to fulfill (satisfy) the Law, not destroy it.  He
> repealed none of God's Law.  Human embellishments and detail in carrying out
> God's Law may be optional in light of modern advances in hygiene, sanitation
> and health, but God's Law remains perfect and unchanged.  And is *not*
> optional!
>
> IMHO

Yeah right! Good luck.

Joshua2

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==
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] Big Media pushing Liddy Dole to succeed Clinton?

[nurev]

 -Caveat Lector-

Sno0wl wrote:
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> On  4 Jan 99 , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Why is Big Media pushing Liddy Dole on the eve of the impeachment
> > trial when her hubby came out against impeachment? And pray tell, what
> > are Liddy Dole's QUALIFICATIONS for being President other than being a
> > high-profile wife of a Washington establishment insider heading a
> > major bureaucracy??
> >
> > Ah, those Trilateralists at work again...
>
> I suppose they're thinking that the election of a Bush is just  a
> little too obvious for a public, enlightened by internet discussion,
> to swallow.

Not at all, they are simply fieling their players. Jr. Dole, Smith, and
whoever else will jump in are presenting themselves to their potential
backers. This is the way it's always done.
>
> And curious about the "woman" thing. In Arizona, four of the five
> women are  Republicans. Women can get elected but the biggest factor
> in their favor appears to be an "unwoman;y" ability to be
> "tough"--the Margaret Thatcher Factor.

In a world of stinking male politicians, feilding a woman is a good
tactic.

> Just searching the brain files and seeming to remember that the Red
> Cross was also implicated in tainted blood  supplies at some point.
> Anyone remember?

Something related to aids I believe. I don't think Dole was in charge
then. The Red Cross job was to keep her in a high profile elite
institution until the right time presented itself. It looks like now
is the time.
>
> Liddy Dole as Madame President with Bobby as First Husband is truly a
> weird idea. Unfortunately, it might be just the weird idea for weird
> times.
>
> sno0wl

Don't forget that she is a Southern Belle from a wealthy upperclass
family, and ANOTHER HARVARD TRAINED LAWYER.
j2


>From "Understanding the New World Order" by J2
Part 2b- Elites and Institutions...

POWER --

   Powerful persons are not powerful because they posess remarkable
qualities or skills, like intelligence, beauty, ambition, willingness to have sex,
or being somehow related to a powerful individual. All these things are
certainly helpful, but it is the attainment of the position ( of power ) itself that
gives an individual control over others.

INSITUTIONS --

instiòtuétion n.
1. an organization devoted to the promotion of a cause or
program, esp. one of a public character.
2. the building occupied by such an organization.
3. a place for the care or confinement of people, as mental patients.
4. any established law, custom, etc.
5. any familiar person, thing, or practice.ù instiòtuétionòal,  adj.

" No one can be truly powerful unless he has access to the command of
major institutions, for it is over these institutional means of power that the
truly powerful are, in the first instance, powerful."
-- C. Wright Mills, author of " The Power Elite ".

" If we took the one hundred most powerful men in America, the one hundred
wealthiest, and the one hundred most celebrated away from the institutional
positions they now occupy, away from their resources of men and women
and money, away from the media of mass communication... then they would
be powerless and poor and uncelebrated. For power is
not of a man. Wealth does not center in the person of the wealthy. Celebrity
is not inherent in any personality. To be celebrated, to be wealthy , to have
power, requires access to major institutions, for the institutional positions
men occupy determine in large part their chances to have and to hold these
valued experiences."  C. Wright Mills

   While Mills keeps referring to men, this also applies to women opperating
in the world of power and institutions. Though it is clear that " power " is in
the realm of the masculine mystique.

   An institution could be viewed as a large powerful machine. Using that
analogy, the head of an institution takes on the powers and abilities inherent
to that machine. For example; a human can't lift and transport 40 tons of
material at 65 miles per hour. But a truckdriver can.

   A  President, King, Dictator or General can subdue or kill a nation.  A
Federal Reserve chairman can decide the value of your money. A boss can
decide whether not you will earn a living. Etc.

SOME TOP POSITIIONS IN AMERICA'S INSTITUTIONAL STRUCTURE --

1) Banking, (The Fedral Reserve,) investments, and insurance ( Wall Street ).
2) The national government. (The Fedral Reserve.)
3) State government.
4) The Supreme Court ( 90% from upper class ).
5) The military.
6) Corporations.
7) The privately owned media.
8) Private institutions of higher learning ( Ivy League ).
9) Private foundations.
10) New York and Washington law firms.
11) Private " Civil " groups like :
  The Council on Foreign Relations, pro business think tanks
  like the American Enterprise Institute, the Brookings Institution.
  The National Association of Manufacturers.
  The Business Roundtable.
  The Committee for Economic Development

Re: [CTRL] THE NEA'S GRAB-BAG OF ISSUES

[Hawk]

 -Caveat Lector-

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> What's wrong with adopting a national energy policy?
>
> I think it's a sane thing to do, especially since the end of the world's oil
> supply is looming on the millennial horizon.

What a crock!  The world is awash with oil!  Seems like some folks once said the
same thing about the demise of the world's whale-oil supply.  Central controls
isn't the answer... FREEDOM to get rich by taking big chances is the answer, just
as it was then.

Hawk

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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

[Howard R. Davis III]

 -Caveat Lector-

YnrChyldzWyld wrote:
>

>
> But my guess is that God will treat each one of us by the way we treated
> the lesser species in our care/dominion...
>

Oh no, I killed a rat in my house the other day. Am I going to go to
hell?

best wishes, Howard Davis

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
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Re: [CTRL] [prj] Y2K--Why Not Buy New Software?

[Hawk]

 -Caveat Lector-

I Wanna Be Me Again wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> The scope and  seriousness of losing our power, communications and banking systems 
>simultaneously will immediately shatter the
> functioning of everything, including federal and state government.  It is my 
>understanding that the coming Y2k disaster has the
> potential to be brutally destructive and a direct threat to individual survival.

IF this happens as you predict, it may be the ONLY "window of opportunity" for those 
who love freedom to cast off their shackles.  As
long as all govm't computers and lines of command are functional, "freedom lovers" 
have basically one option -- begging their masters
to go easy on them... IF, however, the hands of the masters are full just trying to 
juggle their multiple problems, it might give a
sliver of hope for freedom.  In other words, "they" may have bigger fish to fry

Hawk

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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] THE NEA'S GRAB-BAG OF ISSUES

[Howard R. Davis III]

 -Caveat Lector-

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> What's wrong with adopting a national energy policy?
>
> I think it's a sane thing to do, especially since the end of the world's oil
> supply is looming on the millennial horizon.
>

Sane? End of thw world's oil supply looming? Haven't you noticed the
price of gas falling? Ever heard of the law of supply and demand? When
energy becomes in short supply you will know it from the prices. A free
market provides the lowest price and the most efficient supply of
energy. A national energy policy would be a mess. Though I am sure that
someone would profit greatly from such a scheme. Maybe you?

best wishes, Howard Davis

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
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[CTRL] Joshua #13 pt3

[MShrum]

Vol I   THE JOSHUA REPORT   No. #13




"...We can't be so fixated on our desire to
Preserve the Rights of ORDINARY Americans..."
- President Bill Clinton
USA TODAY 3/11/93

PART III of 4
WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON ...
ELECTED Official or CFR APPOINTEE?

[GAMES THEY NEVER TAUGHT
US IN SCHOOL!]

If PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON can't be bothered with upholding the CONSTITUTION,
and preserving OUR RIGHTS as "ORDINARY AMERICANS," just exactly who IS he working
for??? [You gotta admit this would certainly explain how he got in the position he's in
today!] CLINTON - (1) a working member of the MOB [international organized crime], and
(2) a 33rd-degree MASON - has sworn his allegiance to the (3) UNITED NATIONS. He sits 
on
the (4) COUNCIL OF 300, belongs to the (5) TRILATERAL COMMISSION, the (6)
BILDERBERGERS, and, of course, the (7) COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS [CFR]. The
important thing to remember about all of these organizations - besides the obvious 
point
that they are all incorporated BUSINESSES - is that EVERY ONE OF THESE HAVE TAKEN AN
OATH TO DESTROY AMERICA! If we examine these organizations one by one, maybe we
can figure out WHY - and [with Billy Boy's help] just how far they have progressed to 
that
deadline of 2000:

(1) "...[When Chicago-area CONGRESSMAN HENRY HYDE] was a State Legislator,
he corrupted other state and federal officials to instrumentally protect a GANGSTER-
OWNED gambling casino on Paradise Island in the Bahamas. The toll bridge linking the
place with Nassau was owned by then-PRESIDENT RICHARD M. NIXON, now by Nixon's
Estate. ...Like Nixon, HYDE has been part of NAVAL INTELLIGENCE assigned to the
CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY [retiring with the rank of Commander]...

"Hyde became part of the spy agency's worldwide covert funding and political
assassination apparatus, masquerading as the NUGAN HAND BANK...Upon the collapse of
NUGAN HAND BANK in 1980 and the supposed destruction of their records, their worldwide
espionage and dirty tricks funding, disguised as banking...was taken over by their
successor, HOUSEHOLD INTERNATIONAL and HOUSEHOLD BANK...now headquartered in a
Chicago suburb near a convenient suburb airport...HENRY HYDE has a large financial 
stake
in HOUSEHOLD...

"Upon the collapse of the Chicago suburban American Heritage Savings & Loan
Association, the Federal Home Loan Bank, acting as a midwife, arranged its take-over by
HOUSEHOLD. The cover-up included sending some of American Heritage's officials to
federal prison to shut them up. Keeping the criminal matter from getting into HENRY
HYDE's complicity in the affair was Assistant Federal Prosecutor Susan Bogart, now 
part of
a special Chicago team on Hyde"s CLINTON IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY. After being accused
in a published decision by the Federal Appeals Court in Chicago of Jury-tampering, 
which
favored some of the S & L defendants in the criminal case, Susan Bogart left federal
employment.

"To arrange the take-over of the S & L, the HOME LOAN BANK parked $58.4
MILLION with HOUSEHOLD to make good the pending claims of Chicago-area caulking
contractor, Joseph Andreuccetti, who contends the S & L helped swindle him of sums
close to that amount. In 1988, $50 MILLION of those parked funds were secretly 
transferred
from HOUSEHOLD to LITTLE ROCK, ARKANSAS, in an attempt to cover up the
embezzlement there of $47 MILLION from MADISON GUARANTY SAVINGS & LOAN, for
which BILL AND HILLARY CLINTON are subject to being prosecuted and sent to federal
prison. [This is what the WHITEWATER scandal was REALLY about!] (The $3 MILLION
difference was used by RAHM EMANUEL to start Clinton's first campaign for President.)
When a senior investigator of the S & L bail-out agency, RESOLUTION TRUST
CORPORATION, Jon Parnell Walker, discovered the details, he demanded a full inquiry by
his federal agency. His insistance was cut short when HE WAS MYSTERIOUSLY THROWN
TO HIS DEATH from a building in Arlington, Virginia.

"The secret transfer of the $50 MILLION was arranged by HYDE with the aid of 
John
E. Gierum, a lawyer in the same suburb of Chicago, PARK RIDGE, that HILLARY RODHAM
CLINTON's family is from. A close crony of the RODHAMS, Gierum grew up with that family
and went to law school with one of HILLARY's brothers. In January, 1994, Gierum
confessed...in the presence of Joseph Andreuccetti (who was once Gierum's law client),
that the CLINTON WHITE HOUSE is attempting to send Gierum to prison on a frame-
up...Later, when confronted in Court...with his confession, Gierum DID NOT DISPUTE the
same. [1]

"Chicago US District Judge George M. Marovich put the case out of Court 
claiming
he could not hear it because IT HAD TOO MANY DETAILS [!]...A simple explanation of why
HYDE arranged the $50 MILLION transfer is that HYDE is protecting two CIA OPERATIVES
with the agency since an early ag

Re: [CTRL] Y2K--Why Not Buy New Software?

[Howard R. Davis III]

 -Caveat Lector-

Lloyd Miller wrote:
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ian Goddard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Lloyd Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 10:44 PM
> Subject: Re: Pro-panic (fwd)--Y2K
>
> At 09:16 PM 1/4/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >Maybe someone can answer this question for me.  Why don't folks just
> >purchase new y2K compliant software.  Export the old data from the old
> >softwareAutomatically alter all the old dates in the old data to a
> >compliant format and then up-load the data into the new softwarethis
> >would seem to be the best investment of time and money.
>
>   Good point. Maybe the central conspirators are running
> the bug-fixing racket and planned the bug crisis. They'll
> cash in to the tune of billions and then sit back in their
> remote estates while Y2K culls the herd. Several people
> have told me they've read or heard accounts of programmers
> who warned people years ago about Y2K, and they were just
> ignored. Could be psychology, or maybe it was the plan.
>

   First, I think that is basically what they are doing. However, it
isn't as automatic as you might think. Also, there seem to be some
inbedded systems that may run into a problem with this and they have to
be removed from the equipment and then reinstalled. Plus there is the
problem of testing all this once you have fixed it. Have you ever gotten
any software that had a bug? Supposedly the company ran it through its
paces and did not find it. Now there is a problem and they have to spend
money sending you a fix. Well, they probably tested it, but there were
so many variables that they could not test them all. So they sent it out
and after a while they fixed all the problems that cropped up. That's
basically the situation now. They will probably fix most everything, but
there will still be problems that won't turn up until 1/1/2000.
Unfortunately, it is not just one program that is going to have
problems. Its going to be a whole lot of programs having little problems
(or maybe big ones). That's what the problem is. And it is very
difficult to figure out just how bad those problems will be and how
easily they will be fixed.
   I just talked to a fellow who was one of the top techies for Bell. He
said that the phones would not go down because of any software problem
with dates. However, he did say that the maintenance software had to be
fixed (when to change batteries, etc). He said that he told his boss
back in 1976 when they were doing an upgrade on the software that they
were using then that they would have a problem with the software in
2000. His supervisor said that she would be retired by then so it wasn't
a problem for her. And that was it.
   I also know a fellow who is working on y2k for nuclear power plant
computers. He told me "expect weeks without electricity".

best wishes, Howard Davis

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Two Cows (humor)

[Gerald Harp]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/5/99 2:03:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

> >
>  > CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.
>  >

This single line for capitalism which makes it sound like a right smart system
while the alternatives are described with multiple sentences and none too
flatteringly is not well balanced.  I don't know what the right add-on should
be but as it is, it doesn't account for the ruthless quality of capitalism
which leaves 41 million Americans below the poverty line.  It is also silent
about the harsher tone of American capitalism that developed after the fall of
the Soviet Union.  For the sake of the Russian people and the American people,
we need Gorbachev back.

Jerry

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Fw: NEW FBI Document Links Chinagate To Whitewater Figure Webster Hubbell

[Lloyd Miller]

 -Caveat Lector-

Original Message-
From: Martin H. Katchen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Nils Swanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 9:21 AM
Subject: Fw: NEW FBI Document Links Chinagate To Whitewater Figure Webster
Hubbell


Behold the real crimes of the Clinton Administration. Still, what goes
around comes around. China bankrolls American politicians who would impose a
Singapore style police state on the US. Its reasons are to stop American
support for Chinese dissidents. This is exactly what the US has done for
years in Latin America in particular. Now we know how it feels to be on the
recieving end. Clinton collaborates with China the same way Pinochet
collaborated with the US. And our much vaunted ruling class turns out to be
vulnerable to corruption from outside, just as Mexico's is.

>Dear Al:
>-Original Message-
>From: CharlesSmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 2:23 AM
>Subject: CAS: NEW FBI Document Links Chinagate To Whitewater Figure Webster
>Hubbell
>
>
>>http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_smith/19990105_xcsof_administra.shtml
>>
>>A newly de-classified document from the FBI confirms that
>>Attorney General Reno appointed Webster Hubbell to a secret
>>computer chip project intended to bug America.  The document, a
>>1993 letter from FBI Director William Sessions to Janet Reno,
>>was obtained from the Department of Justice using the Freedom of
>>Information Act (FOIA).
>>
>>The FBI letter to Reno states "During the June 30, 1993 meeting
>>with the National Security Council staff to discuss the status
>>of the Presidential Decision and Review Directives concerning
>>key-escrow encryption technology and telecommunications trends,
>>which was attended by Associate Attorney General Webster
>>Hubbell, the issue of a recommended solution to the law
>>enforcement access problem, or the digital telephony issue, was
>>discussed."
>>
>>The Department of Justice withheld many of the documents seen by
>>Hubbell, including a SECRET report from the FBI on "Requirements
>>For the Surveillance of Electronic Communications."
>>
>>The June 30, 1993 letter from Sessions to Reno states that the
>>Whitewater figure attended a secret White House briefing on U.S.
>>computer chip policy.  In 1993, President Clinton considered
>>mandatory legislation for a special computer chip called CLIPPER
>>to be manufactured into all U.S. computers.  According to a
>>SECRET FBI report from 1992, the CLIPPER chip contained a
>>"exploitable feature" which allowed the Federal Government to
>>intercept and decode computer communications.
>>
>>The letter proves Ms. Reno appointed her trusted Assistant
>>Attorney General Webster Hubbell to over-see the secret National
>>Security Agency (NSA) encryption chip project in 1993.
>>According to documents obtained using the Freedom of Information
>>Act (FOIA) Hubbell attended at least one other meeting at the
>>National Security Agency (NSA) Headquarters in May 1993, along
>>with White House lawyers Vince Foster and Bernard Nussbaum.
>>
>>Ms. Reno has been heavily involved in the making of computer
>>security policy of interest to China since 1993.  She has also
>>supported a view to monopolize the computer security industry
>>under the Federal government.
>>
>>One 1996 CIA report noted that Ms. Reno wanted to monitor all
>>American domestic computer communications such as e-mail, using
>>a technique to secretly intercept and decode any messages.
>>According to CIA Director John Deutch, the government would
>>mandate all computers be equipped with a special "back-door"
>>system called "key recovery".  Federal agents would use a secret
>>"key" to secretly enter a back door and read any computer
>>communication.
>>
>>According to the 1996 report to V.P. Gore by CIA Director
>>Deutch, Ms. Reno proposed an all out Federal take-over of the
>>computer industry.  The Justice Department, proposed
>>"legislation that would ... ban the import and domestic
>>manufacture, sale or distribution of encryption that does not
>>have key recovery."
>>
>>Prime targets for monitoring would be foreign governments,
>>banks, corporations, and individuals opposing the Clinton
>>administration.  The keys were to be held by "key recovery
>>agents" licensed by the Commerce Department.
>>
>>According to Congressional investigators, documents from
>>Hubbell's personal schedule for 1993 show that the Whitewater
>>figure met multiple times at the White House on a top secret
>>computer chip project called CLIPPER.  Hubbell met with the then
>>National Security Council (NSC) advisor George Tenet.  Tenet is
>>currently the Director of the CIA.
>>
>>According to George Tenet's SECRET White House email, Ron Brown
>>insisted that the Commerce Department be one of the key holders
>>or be in charge of licensing key holders.
>>
>>Hubbell resigned from the Justice Department in April of 1994.
>>In late June 1994, Lippo boss James Riady 

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

[Gerald Harp]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/5/99 12:54:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

>
>  and history.  For your information, the typical Negro slave received back,
> over the period of
>  his life, about 90% of the wealth he produced... He had a longer life
> expectency than white
>  Europeans of the time, and was better off in practically every measurable
> aspect of economic
>  life and physical health than was any  "peasant class" worker in the world
(
> specifically factory
>  workers in the industrial north and Europe).

You must be living in a dream world, have you been shooting something into
your arm?  If you learned very little in school, it is not too late.  I
suggest you read Bullwhip Days to unburden yourself of the scales that cover
your eyes.

Jerry

PS the notion that privately held property is taken better care of is
certainly pure crap where the corporations are concerned.  Consider Hurwitz
and his tender treatment of the resources of MAXXAM.

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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

[YnrChyldzWyld]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Hawk wrote:
>> Bullshit.  The Indian elephant's in trouble due to loss of it's natural
>> habitat...
>
>Maybe I should have said "Domesticated Indian elephants."  You're back to talking
>about "wild" elephants that "belong to the people."

And just WHERE do you think those 'domesticated Indian elephants' get
PARKED?

Do you really think that privately owned Indian elephants in the
increasingly urbanized southeast Asia get put into garages, complete with
automatic dooropeners, every night?

I stand by my statement...the DOMESTICATED Indian elephant is also in
trouble, due to the loss of its natural habitat.


>Proves my point As long as there was a "use" for elephants, and people were
>allowed to own them for their personal use, there was no danger of them becoming
>extinct.

Proves absolutely nothing of what you claim...your contention was that
AFRICAN elephants should be privately owned like some Indian elephants
are...ignoring the FACT that African elephants are basically untrainable.

You also ignore the fact of the USES the Indian elephant was put to, and
therefore fail to recognize WHY the Indian elephant, privately owned tho
many of them may be, is becoming increasingly rare...

It would make as much sense to argue that Saudis and Kuwaitis should go
back to using camels instead of driving cars...


>I don't think they
>were "put here" for entertainment purposes (i.e. vacation trips to Africa, or even
>to the zoo, to "see the elephants.")

I would not presume to second-guess God's mind in WHY elephants...or any
other species...was put on Earth...neither would I presume to state that
eliminating any species would have little, or no, effect on the greater
whole...

But my guess is that God will treat each one of us by the way we treated
the lesser species in our care/dominion...


June

 ===
  The melancholy days are come, the saddest of the year,
  Of wailing winds and naked woods, and meadows brown and sear.
-- Wm. Cullen Bryant:  The Death of the Flowers
 ===
*---*
revcoal AT connix DOT com
*---*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
 email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
**

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] THE NEA'S GRAB-BAG OF ISSUES

[MarkM411]

 -Caveat Lector-

What's wrong with adopting a national energy policy?

I think it's a sane thing to do, especially since the end of the world's oil
supply is looming on the millennial horizon.

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] [prj] Y2K--Why Not Buy New Software?

[I Wanna Be Me Again]

 -Caveat Lector-

How will that help when there is no electricity, no water and no access to banks?
How will you operate your computer with your new software when you have no electricity 
and no telephone service?  Are you really
relying upon "I didn't do it" Willie for reassurance?

The scope and  seriousness of losing our power, communications and banking systems 
simultaneously will immediately shatter the
functioning of everything, including federal and state government.  It is my 
understanding that the coming Y2k disaster has the
potential to be brutally destructive and a direct threat to individual survival.

 Sherry. aka Tapshoe
 When everyone else is walking out the door,
 the true friend walks in
http://www.angelfire.com/wy/seekGOVinvestigation/

Lloyd Miller wrote:

> Buy Music CD's On-Line at Music Boulevard 
>http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/32653_0_bb/bb200.txt <<  END
> -Original Message-
> From: Ian Goddard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Lloyd Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 10:44 PM
> Subject: Re: Pro-panic (fwd)--Y2K
>
> At 09:16 PM 1/4/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >Maybe someone can answer this question for me.  Why don't folks just
> >purchase new y2K compliant software.  Export the old data from the old
> >softwareAutomatically alter all the old dates in the old data to a
> >compliant format and then up-load the data into the new softwarethis
> >would seem to be the best investment of time and money.
>
>   Good point. Maybe the central conspirators are running
> the bug-fixing racket and planned the bug crisis. They'll
> cash in to the tune of billions and then sit back in their
> remote estates while Y2K culls the herd. Several people
> have told me they've read or heard accounts of programmers
> who warned people years ago about Y2K, and they were just
> ignored. Could be psychology, or maybe it was the plan.
>
> Please Patronize PRJ's Advertisers: http://home.msen.com/~daugh/store.htm  Many Pay 
>Even If You Just Look and Don't Buy!  <<  END

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Om

Re: [CTRL] FREE Holiday to Disney World

[YnrChyldzWyld]

 -Caveat Lector-

>Can anyone PLEASE tell me why people start these things up (like, sure,
>Disney and Bill Gates are really gonna' fly everyone to Disney World.
>Duh).

A more important question to ask is why you would spam it to a Conspiracy
Research List, replete with a mile-long list of past recipients, wasting
13+K worth of bandwidth...

BTW, it's a well-known Internet Urban Legend...


June

 ===
  The melancholy days are come, the saddest of the year,
  Of wailing winds and naked woods, and meadows brown and sear.
-- Wm. Cullen Bryant:  The Death of the Flowers
 ===
*---*
revcoal AT connix DOT com
*---*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
 email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
**

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Y2K--Why Not Buy New Software?

[CrimmSun]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/5/99 7:07:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, lloyd@A-
ALBIONIC.COM writes:

<< At 09:16 PM 1/4/99 -0500, you wrote:
 >Maybe someone can answer this question for me.  Why don't folks just
 >purchase new y2K compliant software.  Export the old data from the old
 >softwareAutomatically alter all the old dates in the old data to a
 >compliant format and then up-load the data into the new softwarethis
 >would seem to be the best investment of time and money.

   Good point. Maybe the central conspirators are running
 the bug-fixing racket and planned the bug crisis. They'll
 cash in to the tune of billions and then sit back in their
 remote estates while Y2K culls the herd. Several people
 have told me they've read or heard accounts of programmers
 who warned people years ago about Y2K, and they were just
 ignored. Could be psychology, or maybe it was the plan. >>

My understanding of things is like this:
There is no easy answer software that will automatically convert the data and
store it.  Many of the non-compliant computers are very old and run their own
proprietary systems, which software was written by one or two independant
programmers say 25 years ago.  A large part of the problem is that the code
for many of these systems is either lost or was never documented.  Many of
these programs were rush jobs, and the code is very sloppy and hard to figure.
In some cases, the original programmers are dead.   In order to export the
data, new programmers must be hired to first figure out _how_ to export the
data.  They have to reverse engineer the original code in order to figure
things out and then convert the data into something a compliant program can
understand.
The only other solution is to print out ALL of the original data and hire
people to input it all by hand into a new program.  That could take a long
time as well, but may be the only solution for some ailing organizations who
are having no luck with their original code.  But then, you run the risk of
human error in the data entry process, so go figure.
That's all I know about that.

-Crimm

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Readiness

[Alamaine Ratliff]

 -Caveat Lector-

>From wsws.org

""US military spending has declined steadily since the end of the Cold War,
with the exception of 1991, when there was a brief upswing to pay for the
Persian Gulf war. (Most of the costs of this military operation were
subsidized by Japan, Germany and other nations heavily dependent on oil
imports from the region.)""  <>

""Senator James Imhofe of Oklahoma, chairman of the Senate subcommittee on
military preparedness and a close ally of the Christian Coalition, attacked
Clinton's budget proposal, saying, "He's personally responsible for the
defamation of our defense system and our hollow forces. The president is
going to try to make it look like he's a pro-defense president. It's an
outrage." ""  <>



WSWS : News & Analysis : North America

$110 billion more for Pentagon over six years

Clinton to propose biggest military spending boost since Reagan

By Martin McLaughlin
5 January, 1999

The Clinton administration will propose the biggest increase in Pentagon
spending since 1984, at the height of the Reagan military buildup, in the
budget it submits to Congress next month. Clinton announced the huge rise
in military spending in his weekly radio speech January 2.

The rise of $12 billion this year and $110 billion over six years comes out
of discussions between the White House and the Joint Chiefs of Staff over
the last four months. The budget will provide for a 4.4 percent
across-the-board raise in military pay, the biggest since 1984 and well
above the inflation rate, with additional raises targeted towards mid-level
officers, noncommissioned officers and skilled technicians.

The bulk of the increased spending will provide expensive new hardware for
each of the three services: new F-22 fighter jets for the Air Force, new
Comanche attack helicopters for the Army, new missile-firing warships for
the Navy. The result will be the first sustained long-term increase in
military spending since the accession of Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev in
1985.

US military spending has declined steadily since the end of the Cold War,
with the exception of 1991, when there was a brief upswing to pay for the
Persian Gulf war. (Most of the costs of this military operation were
subsidized by Japan, Germany and other nations heavily dependent on oil
imports from the region.)

The scale of the US military budget is already staggering, especially since
the Cold War arms race with the Soviet Union ended a decade ago, and the
resources of the Pentagon dwarf those of potential rivals. The increase
alone, $110 billion over six years, is larger than the combined total
budgets of the next two largest military powers, Russia and China, which
spend about $50 billion each.

The total Pentagon budget will top $276 billion next year, and rise
steadily to $296 billion annually by 2005, an amount which exceeds the
total spending of all the other NATO countries, Russia, China and Japan
combined. Yet even these proposed spending levels have been criticized by
the military brass and denounced by congressional Republicans as
inadequate.

Senator James Imhofe of Oklahoma, chairman of the Senate subcommittee on
military preparedness and a close ally of the Christian Coalition, attacked
Clinton's budget proposal, saying, "He's personally responsible for the
defamation of our defense system and our hollow forces. The president is
going to try to make it look like he's a pro-defense president. It's an
outrage."

A major factor in the Pentagon buildup is the increasing turn by the US to
unilateral military interventions, as in Iraq, and the deployment of US
forces in regional trouble spots like Bosnia, Kosovo and Somalia. Some $2
billion out of the $12 billion in additional spending for the coming fiscal
year is for the US forces in Bosnia.

Coming on the eve of the Senate consideration of Clinton's impeachment and
removal from office, the shift of policy on the military budget represents
yet another olive branch to the president's congressional opponents. It
follows the four-day bombing of Iraq and the White House embrace of
proposals for partial privatization of Social Security, each step a
concession to the far-right elements which are seeking to use the
impeachment process to drive Clinton from office.

The proposed hike in military spending stands in sharp contrast to the
modesty of the administration's major domestic policy initiative, a tax
break for the families of patients requiring long-term care, such as
victims of Alzheimer's disease. This plan will cost $6.2 billion over five
years, a small sum considering the social need, and a tiny fraction of the
$110 billion in increases for the military. Moreover, under the rules of
the 1997 budget agreement, the Pentagon increase will have to be financed
from cuts in other areas of discretionary spending on domestic social
programs.

The Clinton military budget is not only a political concession to
right-wing Republicans; it also represents a bowing to the demand

[CTRL] Power to the ...

[Alamaine Ratliff]

 -Caveat Lector-

... police ???


>From wsws.org

WSWS : News & Analysis : North America

Minnesota: massive police action dislodges anti-highway protesters

By Cory Johnson
5 January, 1999

In the cold, early morning hours of Sunday, December 20, over 600 Minnesota
State Troopers, Minneapolis Police and Hennepin Country Sheriff's deputies
stormed seven houses occupied by the environmental group Earth First! and
Native American members of the Mendota Mdewakanton Dakota Community. The
activists were protesting the rerouting of Highway 55 through Minneapolis's
Hiawatha Avenue neighborhood and the adjoining area of Minnehaha Park.

In a carefully coordinated action, 130 squad cars and seven Ryder moving
trucks filled with police in riot gear moved into the area to secure a
3,600-foot perimeter--one officer for every 10 feet--around the vacated
houses. Officers filled the homes with teargas and sprayed pepper spray
directly into the eyes of protesters as they came out. After police removed
the last protesters, one locked to an outdoor platform and another chained
to a cement-filled pipe in the top of a chimney, construction equipment
rapidly leveled the homes.

Thirty-six people were arrested, some injured and bleeding, and
thirty-three ultimately booked and held at the Hennepin County Adult
Detention Center. Outgoing Republican Governor Arne Carlson, who ordered
the raid, appeared at the site and praised the operation, declaring, "These
people are essentially outside the law." Minneapolis Mayor Sharon Sayles
Belton and Hennepin Country Commissioner Peter McLaughlin, both members of
the Democratic Farmer-Labor Party (DFL), joined Carlson and other area
legislators at a news conference to show their support for the police
action.

Earth First! estimated the assault, which occurred between 4:00 and 7:30
a.m., will cost over $1 million dollars. State officials are expected to
seek a special legislative appropriation to reimburse city and county
agencies which participated in what they claim was the largest police
operation in state history. On December 30 Minneapolis Police Chief Robert
Olson gave the raid's planners the Chief's Award of Merit for their "expert
planning and attention to detail."

The action brought to an end a four-month protest by activists who opposed
the demolition of the last group of houses that stood in the way of the
Minnesota Department of Transportation's plans to construct a rerouted
Highway 55, expanded to four lanes. The construction cuts through land at
the confluence of the Minnesota and Mississippi Rivers and Minnehaha Falls.
Historic Fort Snelling, founded in 1805 by Zebulon Pike, is located there,
and for this reason construction has been opposed by the Minnesota
Historical Society. The land is also considered sacred by the Mendota
Mdewakanton band, who fear construction will upset burial grounds. It also
cuts through Minnehaha Park, valued by residents for its picturesque
waterfall and forest, laced with bike trails and hiking paths.

It is believed the new corridor will have an adverse impact on the falls
and Coldwater Spring, along with the area's wildlife. Homes in the
neighborhood average about $80,000. Many of the Hiawatha Avenue residents
have opposed the plan for the transit corridor for years and welcomed the
Earth First! and Indian activists.

But business interests are determined that the plans for Highway 55 go
forward, with construction slated to begin in the spring of 1999. The final
four-lane parkway will provide a more direct connection between
Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport and downtown Minneapolis.
Governor Carlson's decision to move against the activists came as the
occupation began to gain national notoriety, and on the eve of the
inauguration of Reform Party Governor Jesse Ventura. Ventura's surprise
election victory has resulted in a rocky transition, as Republican and DFL
politicians, along with businessmen, jockey for positions in the new
administration. Carlson's action against the protestors saved this new
coalition from an unpopular decision in the new year.

Top of page

Readers: The WSWS invites your comments. Please send e-mail.




Copyright 1998-99
World Socialist Web Site
All rights reserved



A<>E<>R

The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking
new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Forwarded as information only; no endorsement to be presumed
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expressed a prior interest in receiving this type of information
for non-profit research and educational purposes only.

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not all

[CTRL] Y2K--Why Not Buy New Software?

[Lloyd Miller]

 -Caveat Lector-

-Original Message-
From: Ian Goddard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Lloyd Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pro-panic (fwd)--Y2K


At 09:16 PM 1/4/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Maybe someone can answer this question for me.  Why don't folks just
>purchase new y2K compliant software.  Export the old data from the old
>softwareAutomatically alter all the old dates in the old data to a
>compliant format and then up-load the data into the new softwarethis
>would seem to be the best investment of time and money.

  Good point. Maybe the central conspirators are running
the bug-fixing racket and planned the bug crisis. They'll
cash in to the tune of billions and then sit back in their
remote estates while Y2K culls the herd. Several people
have told me they've read or heard accounts of programmers
who warned people years ago about Y2K, and they were just
ignored. Could be psychology, or maybe it was the plan.

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

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Om

Re: [CTRL] [[CTRL] Cain and Abel: True Model For Progressive Thought]

[Brian Redman]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Robert Tatman wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Brian Redman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > The true nature of  revolution  is  revealed  in a recent book by
> > Frank J. Sulloway, "Born To Rebel."  (New  York:   Random  House,
> > 1996. ISBN: 0-679-44232-4.) Sullowayargues   that
> > rebelliousness is statistically discernable by Darwinian niche.
> 
> > Statistical evidence that the true revolutionaries tend to be the
> > later  borns;  that  the   first-borns   tend  to  identify  with
> > authority.
> 
>
> With all due respect, this is so much hogwash. I have Sulloway's book; I've
> read part of it, but didn't finish it. I am a first-born. My wife is a
> first-born. In each of our families, we were the rebels, the ones who resisted
> the established order; it was our younger siblings who succeeded academically
> and moved into positions of authority in society. "Success," as the world
> measures success, has been a long time coming for us...but we have accumulated
> lots of scars in the struggle against the Oligarchy and its minions.
>

Since you've read some of Sulloway's book, you must know that Sulloway
does not claim there are no exceptions to his firstborn/later-born
findings. You'll probably remember that Sulloway analyzes biographical
information via statistics, and that his statistics always show
correlation but never 100 percent correlation. "Rhea Fortean", a
key contributor to CNNS also happens to be a firstborn yet in her
case, as well as yours, she proves the exception to the rule. That
doesn't negate Sulloway's "rule of thumb," since he never claims
it's always true.

Brian Redman
Editor, Conspiracy Nation News Service

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] nurev: Drudge Report//agreement

[Hawk]

 -Caveat Lector-

Sno0wl wrote:

> I'm assuming nothing. I just think that stories like this should not be printed
> unless the facts are in and they ARE true.

Let's examine your position here Did Druge say that Slick was the father of
the boy?  No, not to my knowledge.  Did he say that a certain woman claimed that
he impregnated her?  Yes.  Did she make that claim?  Yes.  Did she support her
claim with some kind of evidence?  Yes (lie detector test).  So, based on these
things, the story as printed WAS factual.  What the readers infered may or may not
be.  That remains to be seen.

> That someone thinks they might be true, does not make such stories newsworthy.

There are reports every day where someone claims to have been robbed, or beaten,
or tricked, or whatever.  The news report should be "So and so CLAIMED that thus
and so happened to them."  Should we wait until after the trial to report the
incident?

> And in the process, much personal damage is done all round.

If one sleeps with the dogs, he should expect to have fleas.

Hawk

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Read this post. It is about senseless and cruel men and ...

[Howard R. Davis III]

 -Caveat Lector-

Gerald Harp wrote:
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 1/5/99 12:50:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
>
> >  What is your explanation for the seeming ability of a
> >  capitalist society to sustain so many more people on the same land mass?
>
> Have all the other people of the earth agreed upon a goal without telling me?
> Is there really some game whose winner is determined by what country sustains
> the most people per square mile of land?  Is Bangladesh the winner?
>
   First, you should remember that I was replying to the assertion that
capitalism had "killed millions". Though I would certainly agree that
many lives have been lost in "capitalist" countries, I was trying to
show that overall there has been a growth in population so that the
losses have been greatly overwhelmed by the increases. These increases
have been largely attributable to the advances in technology which
accompany free market transactions.
   As for the game question. No, the game is to create a society where
people can live the fullest lives possible. The society which inhabited
the land which is now encompassed by the USA was kept from growing to a
larger number through periodic starvation and early loss of life. Many
people believe this is not optimum and prefer longer lives and thus
percieve this as being a better and fuller life. The use of a free
market economy seems to have provided this in the opinion of many
people. While some may prefer primarily devoted to the search for food,
others of us prefer more choices.

best wishes, Howard Davis

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Om

[CTRL] Fwd: [priory-of-sion] Re: DM in OTO?

[RoadsEnd]

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Jack
  I was the New England Head Of the OTO then after
 my leaving I was ordained a priest,  followed by arch-priest,then
consecration as a bishop in the Independent Catholic Church which later
evolved into the Independent Gnostic Catholic Church under the Patriarchy  of
our beloved Carl LaFleur, who made me the Cardinal/Arch-bishop of the NWP2.
The IGCC has absolutely no ties to the OTO
  Daemon.


To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

http://www.albino.com/circle/pos/ - list of priory-related books,
associations, and websites  to unsubscribe, contact list-managers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] or
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[CTRL] Fwd: FC: Last word on AOL and Irish forums

[RoadsEnd]

[I have attached a long note from AOL followed by a number of responses.
Although I have my own opinions on the Irish conflict, I will stay out of this
debate. --Declan]

*

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:21:49 EST
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Irish Forum

I saw some of the traffic regarding the Irish Heritage message boards and
wanted to provide you with some additional information.

The Ireland message boards in the International Channel of the US service were
taken down on December 11, after repeated postings that violated our Terms of
Service.  The boards were cleaned up and reopened on December 28th.

The TOS violations included profanity, vulgarity and personal threats.

TOS and other policies for the boards are clearly posted in the area.  Below
I'm including the posting announcing the reopening of the boards as well as
the "Content of Posts" language that spells out the policies for the Boards.

I hope this is helpful.  Let me know if you need more information or give me a
call at 703/265-2896.

Thanks.

Jim Whitney
_

Subject: Ireland Reopening
Date: 12/28/98 1:26 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: Intf Ravon
Message-id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Dear members,
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Re: [CTRL] Read this post. It is about senseless and cruel men an...

[Howard R. Davis III]

 -Caveat Lector-

Gerald Harp wrote:
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 1/4/99 11:26:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> >  In reality, it was the Southern soldiers who were fighting for the
> >  principle of self-government.
>
> Is there anything so jaw dropping inexplicable than the few who attempt to
> make the South out as a victim of the North over the Civil War?  There are
> "shrines" to Jefferson Davis and Stonewall Jackson.  Take a tour of the South
> and your ear will be bent by a guide babbling about how cruel the Yankees were
> at Vicksburg.  Listening to them, one would never guess that the South was run
> by a gang of slavers who do not at all correspond to those portrayed in Gone
> With the Wind as kindly masters taking loving care of some child like people.
>
> Of course, things are complicated and there were many decent Christian
> Southerners who smuggled slaves, spied on Southern military units, and
> sabotaged when possible.  There were right-wing Northerners who spoke and
> acted for the South.  There were slave holding prosperous free blacks in the
> South.  There were a few slave holders who did treat their slaves with some
> shred of fairness considering the relationship.  The real point is that every
> son of the South who involves himself in discussions about the Civil War
> should get down on his knees and thank God that the Union won the war thereby
> freeing both slave and "free" Southerner.
>
   I was born and raised in Michigan. Most of my ancestors were in
Europe at the time, though I believe one was an doctor in the Union
army. However, I have lived in Atlanta since I was 15 so it may be
charged that I am not neutral on this. (Interestingly, many of my
friends who are the descendents of slave owners and Confederate soldiers
probably believe as you).

   After many years of study (especially through input from a black
friend of mine and observation of southerners of both races over the
past thirty plus years) I have come to the conclusion that the nation
and the south and even the black population of the south would probably
have been better off if Lincoln had not forced the south through
military means back into the union. (And, I believe that slavery
probably would have ended within 20 years and subsequent relations
between the races would have been much better). I believe now that the
"Civil War" was mainly caused by the tariff question and only
exasperated by the slave issue. (Lincoln in his first inaugural address
invites the south back into the union with slavery, but paying tariffs).
These tariffs were designed to benefit the northern manufacturers and
helped to create the "robber barrons". The post "Civil War" result was
great hardship on both the white and black races in the south. To say
that the "every son of the South who involves himself in discussions
about the Civil War should get down on his knees and thank God that the
Union won the war thereby freeing both slave and "free" Southerner"
shows a complete lack of knowledge about the war and its effects.

best wishes, Howard Davis

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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: [FTC] Dangerous NAFTA Trucks Invade US

[William Hugh Tunstall]

 -Caveat Lector-

About ten years ago, I drove into Mexico..  After having done so, I
decided to never do it again.  I was stopped nine times by the Mexican
police as I made my way from Matamoros (Brownsville) to Puebla, Mexico
(approximately ninety miles south of Mexico City.  Mexico is a police
state.. There are Federal police, city police, special squads of narco
cops operating in unmarked cars.. and the system of "mordida" (the payoff)
rules over everyone.  In some of the smaller communities, the cops
routinely demand payment from the "nortenos," those Mexicans who have
traveled north to work in the US.

Whenever truckers see a police car pulled over by the side of the highway
in some remote place... They stop their trucks to make the necessary
payoff to the cop who must pay his supervisor a share of the graft he
collects while performing his duties...  I had a chance to talk to Mexican
truckers on occasion in the little highway stands along the highways..
The life of a Mexican trucker is not a happy one.  They drive dangerous
rigs...if they get into an accident, they usually abandon the scene of the
accident for fear of being buried away in a Mexican prison... (the
Napoleonic Code rules in Mexico--you are presumed to be guilty and must
prove your innocence, ie buy your way out of trouble).

I would never advise an American to travel into the interior down there.
Sometimes the
shakedown is exorbitant... a demand for a thousand dollar payment on the
spot or the hapless turista can expect a few days in a Mexican jail.

Or, there are the notorious "topes" or speedbumps placed in remote areas
on Mexican highways.  In some remote areas, the local inhabitants wait in
the dark beside the speed bumps to assault and rob motorists who must slow
down to almost a crawl in order to get their vehicles across the bumps.

NAFTA, of course, provides us with an open-door policy to the drug riches
of old Mexicojust think of all of those trucks rolling across the
border bringing narcotics to our citizens, many of whom are children.

Or think of the sweat shops set up along the Rio Grandefilled with
young girls working for pennies for US corporations..  Has anyone on this
list ever been in Reynosa?  Juarez?


On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Carl Amedio wrote:

>
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] Doomsday Cult

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On  3 Jan 99 , Boogie wrote:

> EIGHT members of an American doomsday cult were arrested in Jerusalem
> yesterday, suspected of planning a shoot-out with police which, they
> believe, would hasten the end of the world and take them to heaven.
> According to Israeli police, the cultists, who had six children with them,
> planned "extremists acts" on Jerusalem streets in the final days of 1999
> to hasten the second coming of the Messiah. A police source said the cult
> members believed that being killed by police "would lead them to heaven
> and start the process of bringing Jesus back to life". Violence was
> planned for Jerusalem's Old City, possibly the Temple Mount, site of the
> Jewish temple destroyed in AD 70 and now occupied by the Muslim shrine of
> the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa mosque.
>
> The group is an advance guard of 78 members of the Concerned Christians
> cult who sold their property and disappeared from Denver last October and
> were believed to be heading to Jerusalem. Their leader, Monte Kim Miller,

Okay--so they're rounding up these folks because there is a
possibility that they are a danger to themselves and others.
Now...where do they put them until after the Millenium event? Will
they be contained somewhere? Monitored?  Let free but with
limited freedom to move or travel?  Have they done anything illegal
 YET, other than leave their homes and move to Jerusalem?

Seems like a double-bind here.  And an interesting ethical  and
human rights issue.



sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Big Media pushing Liddy Dole to succeed Clinton?

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On  4 Jan 99 , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Why is Big Media pushing Liddy Dole on the eve of the impeachment
> trial when her hubby came out against impeachment? And pray tell, what
> are Liddy Dole's QUALIFICATIONS for being President other than being a
> high-profile wife of a Washington establishment insider heading a
> major bureaucracy??
>
> Ah, those Trilateralists at work again...

I suppose they're thinking that the election of a Bush is just  a
little too obvious for a public, enlightened by internet discussion,
to swallow.

And curious about the "woman" thing. In Arizona, four of the five
women are  Republicans. Women can get elected but the biggest factor
in their favor appears to be an "unwoman;y" ability to be
"tough"--the Margaret Thatcher Factor.

Just searching the brain files and seeming to remember that the Red
Cross was also implicated in tainted blood  supplies at some point.
Anyone remember?

Liddy Dole as Madame President with Bobby as First Husband is truly a
weird idea. Unfortunately, it might be just the weird idea for weird
times.


sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] nurev: Drudge Report//agreement

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On  4 Jan 99 , nurev wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Edward Britton wrote:
> >
> >  -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > SnoOwl:
> >
> > On this one, I am in total agreement with you. This feces is getting
> > sickening! If this turns out to be a farce, as so many of Drudge's
> > "reports" have proven to be, here's hoping Clinton sues this man a new
> > bung-hole.
> >
> > No one is served by this kind of tripe.
> >
> > Edward   ><>
> >
> > >The absolute nastiness of this sort of stuff is that Drudge and his
> > >like know that it doesn't matter if the story is true or not. The
> > >story will stick in the public mind and no one will pay much
> > >attention to the refutation--if and when it comes.
> > >
> > >This is the total corruption of journalism and does not relate to
> > >"news." It is the very core of character assassination--whether it
> > >has to do with Richard Jewel or Bill Clinton or whoever.
> > >
> > >And this group is suspect for being titillated by this kind of
> > >garbage. Let Drudge wait until the DNA test comes through. Only then
> > >is there a story.or no story at all.
> > >
> > >The name of Drudge's story is "The Humiliation of the U.S.
> > >President."  No one deserves to be treated this way in the press.
> > >Even Larry Flynt knows better.
> > >sno0wl
>
> Why are youassuming it's not true?
> J2

I'm assuming nothing. I just think that stories like this should not
be printed unless the facts are in and they ARE true.  That someone
thinks they might be true, does not make such stories newsworthy.
And in the process, much personal damage is done all round.


sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] [[CTRL] THE NEA'S GRAB-BAG OF ISSUES]

[Hawk]

 -Caveat Lector-

Robert Tatman wrote:

>  > THE NEA'S GRAB-BAG OF ISSUES
> 
> > Here is a brief profile of its interests:  snip
>
> Sounds good to me... Honestly, I'd vote for any candidate who ran on these
> points as a platform! If that makes me a Socialist or Communist or something,
> so be it...

Well, Sir, you sure did identify yourself properly Each of the proposals is 
increased "people control" by a central government.  You'd have loved Russia under 
Stalin.

> but these points make a *hell* of a lot more sense than the crap
> spewed forth by the Republicrats and Demipublicans.

Actually, its the same "crap."

> And if the NEA has the funds to pay to elect people who will actually do something 
>*for* the citizens of this country instead of *to* us, then more power to them...

They cannot do something FOR "us" without first doing something TO "us."  Just keep 
that in mind when you're begging them to do it "to others" in favor of your crowd.. 
There's always a different crowd begging them to do something
"to you" for their benefit  Its really pretty simple.  It boils down to "There 
ain't no free lunch."  Somebody has to pay for all the "goodies" other people get.

Whenever ANYONE gets "something for nothing," someone else got "Nothing for something."

Hawk

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

[William Hugh Tunstall]

 -Caveat Lector-

Thank you, Hawk, for the documentation.  I apologize for any ad hominem
remarks I might have made..

I have read Vogel.  (I have a degree in American history.)  Vogel argued
that the majority of slaves were not inhumanely or cruelly treated.. I
would agree (if we define inhumane treatment in terms of whippings,
beatings, and being malnourished.)  Yes, the slaveowners did take care of
their property.  But even the pampered "house niggers" could be bought and
sold at the whim of their masters..
Re: Biblical support for slavery.  Of course.  "Slaves obey your masters,"
etc...  Sure. Slavery was a respected institution in the ancient world...
no doubt about it. As well as the Biblical injunction to not tolerate
witches, etc.  The Bible condoned a number of questionable practices..


I haven't read Dabney...but I have read the pro-slavery tracts of the
period and I'm familiar with the arguments.

On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Hawk wrote:

>
>
> William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
>
> >  -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > If you are going to spew forth such absolute bullshit, please document it.
> > What academic sources are you using in your "research" on the conditions
> > of blacks in the American South during the days of slavery?
>
> Not that I think you will bother to check it out, but one primary source is "Time On 
>the Cross - The
> Economics of American Negro Slavery," by Pulitzer Prize-winning economist Robert W. 
>Fogel.
>
> This is an extremely well-documented book by a man who's initial purpose was to 
>debunk the idea that
> slavery as practiced in the South was inhumane and cruel.  The facts didn't 
>substantiate his thesis,
> but he was principled enough to publish the book anyway.  He wrote a later book in 
>which he expressed
> his disapproval of slavery on "moral" grounds... But the facts I mentioned were 
>accurate
> non-the-less.  You might also want to read "A Defense of Virginia and the South," by 
>R.L. Dabney.
>
> Regarding the "moral" aspect, I suggest a reading of the Bible and its teachings on 
>the institution of
> slavery.
>
> Hawk
>
> ps... I sent this to the list as well as to you personally, since I received a note 
>from the list that
> I had exceeded my daily limit of seven postings.
>
>
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
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Re: [CTRL] [[CTRL] THE NEA'S GRAB-BAG OF ISSUES]

[Robert Tatman]

 -Caveat Lector-

Carl Amedio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> THE NEA'S GRAB-BAG OF ISSUES

> Here is a brief profile of its interests:
>
>o   It wants the U.S. to nationalize health care, start a
>nuclear freeze, adopt national energy policies and pass
>more gun-control laws.
>
>o   At its 1998 convention, the NEA passed resolutions
>denouncing school vouchers and opposing home schooling --
>and it has taken stands against testing of teachers.
>
>o   It believes environmental education should encourage
>"protection of the Earth's finite resources" and raise
>awareness of overpopulation, "global warming, ozone
>depletion and acid precipitation."
>
>o   It claims that all people have a right to housing and
>health insurance at taxpayers' expense, and would use
>money saved from any reductions in the defense budget for
>"alternative civilian uses, including education" -- rather
>than for tax cuts.


Sounds good to me... Honestly, I'd vote for any candidate who ran on these
points as a platform! If that makes me a Socialist or Communist or something,
so be it...but these points make a *hell* of a lot more sense than the crap
spewed forth by the Republicrats and Demipublicans. And if the NEA has the
funds to pay to elect people who will actually do something *for* the citizens
of this country instead of *to* us, then more power to them...

Bob

=
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==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Message from RMNews Sources to RMNews Readers URGENT

[Hilary Thomas]

FYI --not an endorsement--Omk
 
Kris,
 
I'm curious by this statement.  Do you find RuMills not a reliable 
source of information?
 
Hilary
 

Re: [CTRL] [[CTRL] Cain and Abel: True Model For Progressive Thought]

[Howard R. Davis III]

 -Caveat Lector-

Robert Tatman wrote:
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Brian Redman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > The true nature of  revolution  is  revealed  in a recent book by
> > Frank J. Sulloway, "Born To Rebel."  (New  York:   Random  House,
> > 1996. ISBN: 0-679-44232-4.) Sullowayargues   that
> > rebelliousness is statistically discernable by Darwinian niche.
> 
> > Statistical evidence that the true revolutionaries tend to be the
> > later  borns;  that  the   first-borns   tend  to  identify  with
> > authority.
> 
>
> With all due respect, this is so much hogwash. I have Sulloway's book; I've
> read part of it, but didn't finish it. I am a first-born. My wife is a
> first-born. In each of our families, we were the rebels, the ones who resisted
> the established order; it was our younger siblings who succeeded academically
> and moved into positions of authority in society. "Success," as the world
> measures success, has been a long time coming for us...but we have accumulated
> lots of scars in the struggle against the Oligarchy and its minions.
>
> Bob
>

   I also question the first born/later born theory. In my family I am
the oldest of three males. In terms of "radicalness" I would say that my
youngest brother is most radical, my younger brother least, and I am
some where in the middle closest to my youngest brother. In some ways,
though, I may be more radical then he.

best wishes, Howard Davis

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Read this post. It is about senseless and cruel men andhelpless vic

[Howard R. Davis III]

 -Caveat Lector-

Barb Witt wrote:

>
> Your post is exceedingly and unnecessarily cruel to those persons whose
> feelings of moral superiority necessitate their bearing a burden of guilt
> and forever paying penance for the actions of distant ancestors (real or
> imagined).  It is unwise, as well as nonproductive, to interject factual
> information into a religious conversation.
>
Sorry, I'll be more careful next time.

best wishes, Howard Davis

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] Fwd: [CIA-DRUGS] ALERT - NO CIA DRUG HEARINGS IN JANUARY! - Calculus Unchanged

[RoadsEnd]

From: "Mike Ruppert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

CIA-DRUGS ALERT!

THERE WILL BE NO HEARINGS ON VOLUME II IN THE HOUSE PERMANENT SELECT
COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE IN FEBRUARY

11:53 AM - Tues, Jan, 5, 1998

Los Angeles - Just minutes ago I hung up after speaking with a source on the
House Permanent Select committee on Intelligence (HPSCI). The source stated
that, contrary to previously published reports in The San Jose Mercury News,
it would not be possible for HPSCI to hold hearings on Volume II any sooner
than February. The cited reasons for this are telling.

The Committee is not yet constituted and there are several key vacancies.
Ranking Democrat Norman Dicks (D), Washington has rotated out of the
Committee after eight years. This was mandatory. Jane Harman (R) CA, left
the House to run for Governor and Congressman David Skaggs (D), CO has
retired.

These vacancies leave open the possibility for serious and important
developments. The Ranking Democratic member will wield enormous influence
and will, next to the Chairman (retired CIA operative Porter Goss), have a
lot to say about the scope and nature of the hearings on Vol. II. The new
ranking member will be chosen by House Minority Leader Dick Gephardt who
will, no doubt, consult with President Clinton beforehand.

Wish List: Maxine Waters as a new member of the Committee. Better yet - as
ranking member!

Given the pressure already placed on the Committee by public pressure to
hold well publicized hearings with a reasonable witness list I now think it
unlikely that HPSCI will hold hearings at all before the planned April 29th
demonstration at Florence and Normandie.

My story on the Calculus of Impeachment including CIA drug dealing has been
picked up by the Progressive Review www.prorev.com and apparently the Drudge
report as well. I had four visitors to my web site, www.copvcia.com,  this
AM from the drudge page. The progressive review has added additional
material making my scenario even more likely and credible.

That story is producing the biggest "AHA!" I have ever heard from both the
left and the right. A lot of people are now actually reading Vol. II.

Remember that the Bully Pulpit can, at any time, draw attention to Volume
II. So can the people if they put their mind to it.

Mike Ruppert
>From The Wilderness
www.copvcia.com



To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

[CTRL] Fwd: Message from RMNews Sources to RMNews Readers URGENT

[RoadsEnd]

FYI --not an endorsement--

Om
k
-



 From the Offices of:  Rumor Mill News Agency
The Uncensored National Rumor

E-mail Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


RMNews Update: 01.05.99 Aptos, CA  -- In a fax received
yesterday in the RMNews offices, our recent Sources of
information, said to tell all of the RMNews readers,
Thank You!!

(Word for word from fax)
"tell em their letters turned the tideKey WORDS hit the
point   Keep Letters flowingseparate the wheat
Keep it up! Tell em TY


Rumor Mill News Sources say Thank You to Rumor Mill News readers and Agents!

On Sunday, January 03, 1999, RMNews put out a  story in
which we urged  all Americans who believe in our
Constitution to write Senator Trent Lott and make him
realize that if he goes through with his four day version of
the impeachment trial, or any other unconstitutional trick to
keep the truth from coming out, that Republicans, like
elephants, will have long memories.

Evidently, Senator Lott got the point. Today, Tuesday, he
held a press conference and announced that the shortened
version of the trial has been abandoned. Unfortunately,
Senator Lott was less that forthcoming in his further
comments, and refused to answer questions.

RMNews Sources said to thank all of you who took the
time to write to Senator Lott. Evidently, the "Key WORDS"
contained in your letters "hit the point", and "turned the
tide".

Remember,  readers of RMNews are among a few select
people who had prior knowledge that Senator Lott might be
"forced" to do the right thing for the American
Constitution. While the rest of the world waited to see how
the slimmed-down-four-day-version of the impeachment
trial was going to look, RMNews readers were waiting to
see how gracefully Senator Lott could get out of the One
World box he has put himself in.

At the moment, he has not made a complete nor graceful
exit of his "One World Box." Therefore, you cannot stop
writing the letters!!

>From other people, with whom RMNews has been in
communication with over the past few days, we have
concluded that even though Faction 2 believes they have
won the war and defeated the New World Order's One
World Government, the victory still hangs in the balance.

Senator Lott is key to this victory.
RMNews does not know,
+ If he is a One Worlder,
+ If he is receiving  bad advice from his staff and inner
circle,
+ Or if the Clinton Political Destruction Derby has Senator
Lott in their sites.

Any of the above could cause Senator Lott to abandon the
Constitution and try to derail the impeachment trial in order
to keep President Clinton in power.

Wait, Don't Judge Just Yet!!!
There is another possibility, and we don't want to lose sight
of it. Senator Lott may very well be cooperating with
Faction 2, and delaying the course of events to ensure that
all the Senators in the United States Senate have the proper
time to "hang" themselves.

 In our Sunday  article, this sentence appeared:
"The wheat has still not be separated from the
Chaff. If President Clinton is removed too soon, it will not
give us enough time to learn which of our Senators are
"One Worlders" and which Senators are Americans who
support the Constitution of the United States of America."

It is important that the traitors do not come out of this
unscathed. All traitors must be known. If they are not
discovered and removed from office in the coming election
primaries, their "Global Virus" may come back to infect
another generation of Americans.

In 1996, the infamous Fifth Column delivered hundreds of
plain brown envelopes to members of congress and high
ranking government appointees and bureaucrats. These
plain envelops let these targeted people know that evidence
exists which implicates them in treason, racketeering,
conspiracy, grand theft, income tax evasion, and in some
cases, even murder.

In 1996, these people were given the choice, "Step aside, or
face indictment." Most of the recipients of the Brown
Envelopes chose "not to run for re-election, due to family
reasons."

The current members of our Congress need to take a lesson
from the Brown envelops which were delivered in 1996.
When the envelops start coming in the year 2000, they
won't be brown, they will be white, and there won't be
evidence inside the envelops, there  will be Indictments!

WHAT ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO?
Keep writing letters to your Senators. The trial must go
through.

President Clinton's tenure of office has become one big
abscessed boil. Only a thorough lancing and cleansing will
prevent this type of boil from surfacing again. The trial will
rip open the boil and clean out the smell of putrefied lies,
bribery, abuse of power and criminal obstruction of justice.

Keep your letters, faxes, emails and telephones calls going
to your Senators. We must keep the pressure on right now!!
You cannot turn away and think there are enough people in
the country who are writing letters. Your letter, phone call,
fax or email could be the one which turns the tide
completely

Re: [CTRL] The BIG Picture..part 2

[Howard R. Davis III]

 -Caveat Lector-

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
> Each new dispensation extends the horizon of revealed religion, and the
> Magisterial Sons extend the revelation of truth to portray the affairs of the
> local universe and all its tributaries.
>

I thought you said that "Uranchia" is not a religion?

best wishes, Howard Davis

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Om

[CTRL] Knights of Malta of St. John of Jerusalem Inc.

[RoadsEnd]

 -Caveat Lector-

from Conscience, Vol.XV, No 1-Spring 1994
published by
Catholics for a Free Choice
1436 U Street NW
Washington, D.C. 20009-3997
202-986-6093
$3.50 an issue

Knights of Malta of St. John of Jerusalem Inc.
Full name: Sovereign Military and Hospitaller Order of St. John of Jerusalem
of Rhodes and of Malta

American Association, 1011 First Avenue, New York Archdiocese, New York,
NY10022
Tel: 212-308-3813

Federal Association of U.S.A., 1730 M Street, NW, Suite 301, Wnshington, DC
20036
Tel: 202-331-2494  Fax: 202-331-1149

Western Association of U.S.A., 465 California Street. Suite 812, San
Francisco, CA 94104
Tel: 415-788-4550

World Headquarters, Via Condotti, 68, Palazzo Malta, 00187 Rome



  Membership estimates for theKnights of Malta vary
between10,000 and 13,000  worldwide, and
between1,500 and 2,500 in the United States (47)
Members of the Western Association are required to
donate at least $3,000 per year to the order's charities.(48)
  The economic power of the Knights of
Malta rests on the vast wealth of its mem-
bers; their financial statements had not
yet been obtained when this report went
to press.

POLICIES AND ACTIVITIES(49)
 The most regal of Catholic lay socie-
ties, the Knights of Malta was founded in
the11th century to provide medical aid to
Christian pilgrims in the Holy Land. The
society became a military order in the12th
century and was a military force in the
Mediterranean, headguartered in Malta
from the 15th century until Napoleon
won control of the island in1789. It re-
organized under papal protection in the
1800s, and gradually evolved into an
 aristocratic fraternal organization dedi-
 cated to helping the sk and wounded.
 The Knights of Malta says that its charit-
 able work, which has continued to the
 present day, now includes operating or
 supporting 200 hospitals and clinics in90
 countries.(50)
   Ecclesiastically, the Knights of Malta is
 a lay religious order whose elected head,
 the Grand Master, must be approved by
 the pope and enjoys the rank of cardinal.
 Politically, it remains a sovereign entity
 whose "ambassadors" enjoy full diplo-
 matic status in dozens of countries
aroundthe world.
   As a charitable non-governmental
 organization with diplomatic immunity
 in many countries (though not the United
 States), the Knights of Malta enjoys a free-
 dom of operation unique among interna-
 tional service organizations. The unique
 status of the organization makes it an at-
 tractive foreign aid partner. An August
 1993 US Agency for International Devel-
 opment study of emergency aid needs in
 strife-torn Zaire refers to the Knights of
 Malta's Zaire Embassy as "a valuable asset
 yet to be tapped to its fullest(' It notes that
 the Knights' ambassador "has an exten-
 sive network of contacts on all political
 fronts" coupled with the ability to "obtain
 diplomatic treatment" for emergency
 relief supplies.(51)
  As a sovereign entity controlled by a
 handful of wealthy aristocrats and busi-
 ness people, the Knights of Malta also
 can-and often does-become a potent
 instrument for covertly achieving political
 and quasi-military goals which its mem-
 bers could not hope to attain through
 democratic methods.
   The first of three US branches was
 established in the1920s by conservative
 Catholic business leaders, including
 Joseph P. Grace,Joseph Kennedy,and US
Steel Chairman John Farrell. Cardinal
 Francis Spellman, who was involved
 from the start and adopted the title of
 "Grand Protector," established an endur-
 ing link between US Knights and the
 New York Archdiocese.
   Before and during World War II, some
 European members of the Knights of
 Malta collaborated with Nazism in Ger-
 many, fascism in Italy, or Franco's Falan-
gist movement in Spain. After the war,
branches for the Knights of Malta in the
United States, Latin America, Italy, and
Germany collaborated with the Office of
Strategic Services and its successor, the
Central Intelligence Agency, in an elabo-
rate scheme to smuggle Nazis, fascists,
and collaborators out of Europe. This
operation set the pattem for subsequent
Knights of Malta-CIA collaboration in
covert operations to defeat communist
politicians in Italy and support the
Nicaraguan contras in Central America.(52)
 The political and the humanitarian
sides of the Knights of Malta were both
much in evidence during the Reagan-
Bush years, after a dynamic leader, J. Peter
Grace, reinvigorated the group, working
closely at times with CIA director and
fellow Knight William Casey.
 In1982, Grace and another prominent
Knight, former Treasury Secretary Wil-
liam Simon, worked with their friend Ray
Macauley to create a new international
charity. AmeriCares, which was to be-
come a vehicle for Knights of Malta-
backed projects around the world.
AmeriCares also won support from the
Protestant right: as of1984, ten percent of
its funding came from Pat Robertson's
Christian Broadcasting Network, accord-
ing to Macauley. Founder 

[CTRL] The History of Phi Beta Kappa -repost-

[RoadsEnd]

 -Caveat Lector-

An excerpt from:
The History of Phi Beta Kappa
Oscar M. Voorhees
The United Chapters of Phi Beta Kappa(C)1945
Crown Publishers
New York, NY
-
An interesting book. Some researchers speculate that Skull & Bones came out of
Phi Beta Kappa going 'public'.

Om
K
-

Phi Beta Kappa and Secrecy

The requirement of secrecy was first questioned by Elisha Parmele in 1779 when
he applied for charters for New England colleges. However, he accepted secrecy
as a fundamental principle and bore charters requiring "that the arcana of
this Society be held inviolate." A few years later the oath of fidelity was
modified at Yale; but in 1806, when it was proposed at Harvard to change the
oath to a mere affirmation, a minority at Yale sent so strong a protest that
the movement did not go farther.

The Fraternal Society of Free and Accepted Masons had come into prominence
during the War for American Independence, when officers became members and
gave it standing as a patriotic organization. Later its methods and secrets
were frequently the subject of discussion and friends of the Society feared
that controversies might obscure the real values of the brotherhood.

A crisis arose when it became known that a book exposing the secrets of
Masonry by an alleged member, William Morgan of Batavia, New York, had been
written and that a local printer was advertising it as ready for publication.
Fellow Masons were indignant that a member should thus violate his oath, and
they tried to prevent publication. Their first endeavor seems to have been to
cause his arrest on trivial charges, fully aware that a lawsuit would be
expensive to a man of small means. Morgan was brought from Batavia to
Canandaigua, examined before a magistrate and discharged. He was then arrested
on another charge, judgment was rendered, and for want of money he was lodged
in jail.

The next day men who posed as friends paid his fine, secured his release and
hurried him away to Fort Niagara. Soon thereafter he disappeared. The report
that he had drowned and that the act had been committed by fellow Masons to
prevent disclosure of the secrets of the Society spread rapidly. His book,
however, was published and widely circulated. The incident aroused deep
feeling. Some of the agents were arrested, tried and convicted. The matter was
brought officially before Governor DeWitt Clinton.

On January 26, 1830, John C. Spencer, as "special Counsel on the abduction of
William Morgan," presented his report to Enos Throop, acting governor, Clinton
having died. This report was published in Niles' Register of March 27 of that
year. Spencer traced the events from September 19, 1827 when Morgan had
disappeared. No valid testimony respecting the disposition of his body had as
yet been obtained. Spencer affirmed that those involved, "all of whom belonged
to the Masonic Fraternity," had no criminal purpose in removing Morgan to
Niagara and secreting him in a magazine there. But the end was his
disappearance and the beginning of the Morgan mystery.

This excitement might have spent itself in political activities had not a
Mason who claimed to be a member of Phi Beta Kappa also, felt obliged to
expose Masonry and Phi Beta Kappa at the same time. His book, "A Ritual of
Freemasonry, Illustrated by Numerous Engravings; with Notes and Remarks, to
which is added a Key to the Phi Beta Kappa," was published, 1831, by John
Marsh and Co. of Boston and entered for copyright by Avery Allyn, who placed
after his name, on the title page, "K.R.C., K.T., K.M., &c.," followed by
certain cryptic symbols. It would appear that the author's interest in Phi
Beta Kappa was secondary, for he gave 290 pages to the characteristics of
Masonry and only eight to those of Phi Beta Kappa, one of which contained
illustrations of the "sign," the "grip," and "both sides of the medal." The
identity of Avery Allyn has never been revealed. He stated that he was a
member of Phi Beta Kappa and had taken part in initiations, but his name does
not appear in any Phi Beta Kappa catalogue or in the catalogue of any college
with a chapter of the Society. Avery Allyn's statements are interesting:

"I have for a long time been convinced of the worse than useless character of
this secret institution; and have waited, with no small degree of solicitude,
for a suitable opportunity to declare all that I knew about it to the world.
By doing this, I hope not to wound the feelings, or provoke the resentment of
any of the respected brethren of that Fraternity.

"In this day of laudable excitement and anxious investigation into the nature
and principles of secret societies, it is my humble opinion, there ought to be
no concealment; and that the public good imperiously demands a fair and full
disclosure of the nature and principles of all secret societies, and that what
is said and done under the cover of darkness, should be openly proclaimed on
the house top. If there be any good in them, it is but reasonable and just
th

Re: [CTRL] [[CTRL] FREE Holiday to Disney World]

[Robert Tatman]

 -Caveat Lector-

Source - Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Richard, these Internet hoaxes are a kind of virus themselves...each time
someone forwards the message to another recipient it propagates the "virus."
They flourish because, as the immortal P.T. Barnum observed, "There's a sucker
born every minute." I suspect, too, that they also exist to troll for e-mail
addresses...a spammer will send out a hoax knowing it's a hoax, but also
knowing that when it comes back to him it will have tons of lovely headers
with the addresses of new targets for his spam. The *only* way to deal with
these things is to delete them. You can get lots of info on Internet hoaxes at
the CIAC website, http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html, or the Symantec
AntiVirus Research Center, http://www.sarc.com/

Bob


=
Robert F. Tatman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Remove "nospam" from the address to reply.

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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Read this post. It is about senseless and cruel men andhelpless vic

[E Mael]

 -Caveat Lector-

[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
>Your post is exceedingly and unnecessarily cruel to those persons whose
>feelings of moral superiority necessitate their bearing a burden of guilt
>and forever paying penance for the actions of distant ancestors (real or
>imagined).  It is unwise, as well as nonproductive, to interject factual
>information into a religious conversation.
>
>Barb


glad to see you back on your medication barb. the putrifaction of your
acidic parambulations are almost legible. give my best to the m.h. workers
at the home and a hearty "well done".

grinnin'

chris

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

[CTRL] Update on London Shell Office occupation

[Agent Smiley]

>
>  Update on yesterday's Ogoni Day Occupation of Shell's London offices.
>
>  Contents:
>  1. News Release from London Activists
>  2. Article from Environmental News Services
>  3. Update from NoMoreShell UK webpage
>
>  -
>  1. News Release from London Activists
>  -
>  UKOOA
>  News release Tuesday, January 5, 1999
>  Shell protest activists pledge to step up campaigns through 1999
>
>  Yesterday's protest at Shell-Mex House in the Strand, London, ended with
>  the environmental and human rights activists released without charge and
>  pledging to continue challenging corporate hegemony. Police ejected the
>  protesters from the building for a second time today as they leafleted
>  Shell workers in the building's foyer.
>
>  The action on January 4 involved a dozen smartly dressed anti-corporate
>  executives breaching security to enter the building. They then
>  barricaded themselves into top management offices including those of the
>  new Shell-UK boss Malcolm Brinded and outgoing boss Chris Fay. From the
>  offices the protesters used a lap-top computer and mobile phone to relay
>  live pictures and updates of the protest to a Shell-style website at
>  
>  After 6 hours, riot police smashed through the office walls and arrested
>  all the protesters.
>
>  The activists described the protest as an act of solidarity with
>  indigenous resistance to Shell in Nigeria. The protesters in London
>  demanded compliance with the demands of the Ijaw ethnic group for Shell
>  to leave their traditional lands and for an end to corporate-backed
>  military repression. Chris Fay refused to negotiate with the activists
>  and called the Ijaw demands 'irrational.'
>
>  Killings of Niger Delta activists by soldiers were reported yesterday by
>  Nigerian based groups Environmental Rights Action and ND-HERO as having
>  reached 240 since the New Year. The killings follow an increase of
>  direct action in the Niger Delta over the last 2 years by youths angry
>  at the continuing poverty of the oil-rich areas and the pollution caused
>  by oil companies's outdated equipment and negligent performance.
>
>  500 Ijaw communities from across the Niger Delta had issued the Kaiama
>  Declaration on 11 December 1998 giving Shell, Chevron and other
>  transnationals until 30 December 1998 to leave their land - or face
>  eviction. Military Administrator of Bayelsa State, Lt. Col Paul Obi,
>  declared a State of Emergency, suspending all civil liberties and
>  imposing a dusk-to-dawn curfew on the entire state, the first such
>  declaration since the Biafra-Nigeria civil war.
>
>  They Ijaws launched Operation Climate Change on January 1, 1999, saying
>  that activists would shut down oil flow stations and their polluting gas
>  flares between January 1 and 10. Thousands of troops have now been sent
>  to smash occupations of oil installations, disperse rallies and provide
>  a military shield for continued oil production across the Delta.
>
>  The activists in London chose the first day of work in the last year
>  before the new Millenium to send a message to corporations that 1999
>  will be a year of increased globalisation of protest. Activists said
>  that the Shell protest gave a foretaste of direct action to come. A
>  spokesperson said yesterday, "We mean business. This is the turning
>  point that will see the end of corporate dominance."
>  For further information, contact (+44) (0) 958 795198, or DELTA on (+44)
>  (0) 116 270 9616 or (+44) (0) 181 806 2253. Visit
>  www.kemptown.org/shell for more details
>  and images of the protest.
>
>  ends




Update on yesterday's Ogoni Day Occupation of Shell's London offices.

Contents:
1. News Release from London Activists
2. Article from Environmental News Services
3. Update from NoMoreShell UK webpage

-
1. News Release from London Activists
-
UKOOA
News release Tuesday, January 5, 1999
Shell protest activists pledge to step up campaigns through 1999

Yesterday's protest at Shell-Mex House in the Strand, London, ended with
the environmental and human rights activists released without charge and
pledging to continue challenging corporate hegemony. Police ejected the
protesters from the building for a second time today as they leafleted
Shell workers in the building's foyer.

The action on January 4 involved a dozen smartly dressed anti-corporate
executives breaching security to enter the building. They then
barricaded themselves into top management offices including those of the
new Shell-UK boss Malcolm Brinded and outgoing boss Chris Fay. From the
offices the protesters used a lap-top computer and mobile phone to relay
live pictures and updates of the protest to a Shell-style website at

A

Re: [CTRL] Pesticide Exposure Affects Male Fertility

[Agent Smiley]

 -Caveat Lector-

So who markets and uses these pesticides?  That would seem to be the meat of
the matter.

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Hundreds protest police killing of black teen in Calif...

[Agent Smiley]

 -Caveat Lector-

I personally can make no statement about the guilt or innocence of the police
in this matter although I have little trust in badges.  However, someone
sitting in a car that is running and has a flat tire, if having gone on for,
say, an hour, would be reason for ME to inquire if I were a police officer.

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] U.S. Fighter Jets Fire on Iraq Planes

[Carl Amedio]

 -Caveat Lector-

A Look at the 'No-Fly'
Zones

U.S. Fighter Jets Fire on Iraq Planes

By ROBERT BURNS
.c The Associated Press

WASHINGTON (Jan. 5) - Four U.S. fighter jets fired missiles at Iraqi planes
today in the ''no-fly'' zone over southern Iraq, a senior U.S. administration
official said. It was the first American-Iraqi air-to-air confrontation in
more than six years.

The U.S. missiles apparently failed to hit the Iraqi planes, although one
Iraqi plane was believed to have crashed, apparently after running out of
fuel, the official said.

The official Iraqi News Agency said Iraqi planes ''confronted and clashed with
the aggressive British and American aircraft'' before ''the aggressive
aircraft withdrew. All of our air force planes returned to base safely.''

The American planes - two Air Force F-15 strike aircraft and two Navy F-14
fighters - returned safely after the confrontation, the U.S. official said,
speaking on condition of anonymity. The Navy planes were from the aircraft
carrier USS Carl Vinson.

The incident, which happened at about 2:30 a.m. EST, marked an escalation of
tensions between Iraq and the United States and Britain over enforcing the
''no-fly'' zones in northern and southern Iraq. Iraq considers the
restrictions illegal and has vowed to defy them.

President Clinton has said U.S. and British forces will continue banning Iraqi
flights in the restricted zones, arguing that Saddam Hussein's military still
represents a threat to minority Kurds in the north and Shiite Muslims in the
south.

David Leavy, spokesman for the White House National Security Council, said
today, ''The president has made it clear we will enforce the no-fly zones
vigorously. The Iraqi violations are at their own peril.''

A senior Pentagon official said the air-to-air altercation was the first in
Iraq since Dec. 27, 1992, when a U.S. F-16 shot down an Iraqi MiG-25.

Pentagon spokesman Ken Bacon said there were two separate incidents 15 minutes
apart, one involving U.S. F-15s and Iraqi MiG-25s, the other U.S. F-14s and
MiG-25s. U.S. warplanes fired a total of six missiles during the two
incidents.

All told, military officials counted eight separate violations of the no-fly
zone today involving 13 to 15 Iraqi aircraft.

The Iraqi planes turned quickly after being fired upon, Bacon said. ''They
escaped without being shot down.''

At a Pentagon briefing, Bacon defended the accuracy of the missiles.

''Air-to-air combat is an extremely engaging and demanding type of war,'' he
said, adding there were still several unknowns, including the distance between
the aircraft when the missiles were fired.

Bacon said there were reports that a MiG crashed because it ran out of gas.
''We believe that to be the case but we do not have certainty on that right
now,'' he said.

Prior to today, there had been two incidents in the no-fly zones - neither
involving air-to-air combat - since the U.S. and British airstrikes of Dec.
16-19.

On Dec. 28, U.S. warplanes fired on an Iraqi surface-to-air missile battery in
the northern zone after being fired on from the ground. Iraq said four Iraqi
soldiers were killed and seven wounded.

On Dec. 30, U.S. warplanes hit an anti-aircraft battery in the south. Iraq
says a farmer was killed and two other civilians wounded.

Saddam announced earlier in a statement read on state-run Iraq television that
the no-fly zones imposed on his country have no basis in international law and
vowed that Iraq will fight violations of its airspace ''with all its courage
and bravery.''

Meantime, the State Department said one of Saddam's sons directed the murder
of hundreds of Iraqi dissidents last November in the Shiite region of southern
Iraq.

Spokesman James P. Rubin said Monday that tensions in the south, a stronghold
of anti-Saddam sentiment, rose after the assassinations of two senior Islamic
clerics this summer.

He said there have been reports of mass arrests throughout the southern region
and in the Shiite areas outside Baghdad over the past six weeks - in addition
to hundreds of summary executions of dissidents at two prisons.

''The repression reportedly reached a peak in November, with hundreds killed
in actions directed personally by Qusai Hussein,'' Rubin said.

''Regime military action against the Shiites is an intrinsic and continuing
part of this campaign of repression. Since 1991 the regime has been carrying
out the widespread and brutal repression of the Shiite population of southern
Iraq.''

Rubin said opposition sources from the Shiite areas reported that seven
villages were recently destroyed or turned into military outposts.

He added that more than 2,000 civilians who were unable to flee were
reportedly taken hostage by regime forces and possibly sent to Baghdad. They
were made up largely of the old, the infirm, women and children, he said.

 AP-NY-01-05-99 1445EST

Copyright 1999 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news
report may not be published, broadcast, re

Re: [CTRL] THE NEA'S GRAB-BAG OF ISSUES

[E Mael]

 -Caveat Lector-

the bastards!! they killed kinny too. the nerve of these people. there
ought to be another law.

[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
>Here is a brief profile of its interests:
>
>   o   It wants the U.S. to nationalize health care, start a
>   nuclear freeze, adopt national energy policies and pass
>   more gun-control laws.
>
>   o   At its 1998 convention, the NEA passed resolutions
>   denouncing school vouchers and opposing home schooling --
>   and it has taken stands against testing of teachers.
>
>   o   It believes environmental education should encourage
>   "protection of the Earth's finite resources" and raise
>   awareness of overpopulation, "global warming, ozone
>   depletion and acid precipitation."
>
>   o   It claims that all people have a right to housing and
>   health insurance at taxpayers' expense, and would use
>   money saved from any reductions in the defense budget for
>   "alternative civilian uses, including education" -- rather
>   than for tax cuts.

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] Fwd: [FTC] Dangerous NAFTA Trucks Invade US

[Carl Amedio]

Dear Friends,

"The report said that a "direct correlation" exists between the condition
of Mexican trucks entering U.S. commercial zones and the amount of
inspection resources at the border. With the best inspection practices,
the condition of trucks entering California are "much better" than those
entering other border states...Mexican trucks entering
through Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas are unlikely to face inspection
since those states do not have enough inspectors on duty during all
commercial hours..."

Not only are these trucks dangerous to innocent American drivers, but
who knows what these massive boxcars have hidden inside them?

FTC-Linda

--

Daily Report For Executives
Tuesday, January 05, 1999

Few Mexican Trucks Face Inspection, DOT Inspector General Report
Charges

A Department of Transportation Office of Inspector General report has
found that "far too few trucks" are being inspected at the U.S.-Mexico
border, with the exception of California.

"At one crossing in El Paso, Texas, which receives an average of 1,300
trucks daily, only one inspector is on duty and he can inspect only 10
to 14 trucks daily. At other crossings, there are times when there is no
inspector at all," according to a memorandum accompanying the report.


Of the trucks inspected, almost half do not comply with U.S. safety
standards, the report, released on DOT's web site Jan. 4, found. The
report said that 44 percent of inspected trucks from Mexico were turned
away because of safety violations.

The report addressed the Federal Highway Administration's programs to
ensure the safety of commercial trucks entering the United States from
Mexico and Canada. It focused on plans to implement North American
Free Trade Agreement provisions on cross-border trucking with Mexico.

Mexican trucks are currently limited to operate in designated
commercial zones, which generally encompass areas extending up to
20 miles north of U.S. border cities. In December 1995, the United
States put on hold trucking applications from Mexican carriers seeking
to operate freely in U.S. border states pursuant to NAFTA provisions.
The United States has conducted discussions with Mexico on highway
safety rules but the dispute remains unresolved. Under NAFTA,
commercial trucks should be able to travel the interiors of the three
NAFTA countries by Jan. 1, 2000.

More Inspectors Urged

Actions being undertaken to prepare for the opening of the U.S.-Mexico
border to Mexican long-haul trucks do not provide "reasonable
assurance" that the trucks will comply with U.S. safety standards, the
report stated.

"With the exception of California, neither FHWA's nor the States' plans
provide for an adequate presence of inspectors at border crossings for
trucks currently operating in the commercial zones ... A more robust
border inspection presence is needed, at least in the near term, to both
encourage and reinforce the importance of Mexican efforts to establish
its own safety oversight program," the report said.

FMWA, the report continued, was looking to the states to provide
needed inspectors rather than providing federal resources. The border
states, except for California, failed to provide enough inspectors at
border crossings but looked to the federal government to provide
inspectors, it added.

The report said that a "direct correlation" exists between the condition of
Mexican trucks entering U.S. commercial zones and the amount of
inspection resources at the border. With the best inspection practices,
the condition of trucks entering California are "much better" than those
entering other border states, the report said.

Mexican trucks entering through Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas are
unlikely to face inspection since those states do not have enough
inspectors on duty during all commercial hours.

The report recommended several alternatives for increasing the number
of inspectors at the border, with costs ranging from about $3 million to
about $7 million. Because of inconsistencies in approaches, FHWA
needs a NAFTA program director to oversee an effective cross-border
traffic management program, the report urged.

Better coordination is also called for among the federal entities
monitoring border activities, the report urged. "Visits to a border
crossing clearly show considerable vehicle congestion. Multiple Federal
and State agencies have jurisdiction over a variety of border-crossing
issues and differing inspection responsibilities, which need to be
balanced with the expeditious movement of traffic," the report said.

Another recommendation made by the report was the establishment of
a federal interagency group to coordinate border issues.

"Although views differ about whether a 44 percent out-of-service rate for
Mexican trucks is statistically representative of the universe of Mexican
trucks that are noncompliant, there currently is no other measure to use
as a frame of reference; near

[CTRL] THE NEA'S GRAB-BAG OF ISSUES

[Carl Amedio]

 -Caveat Lector-

THE NEA'S GRAB-BAG OF ISSUES

The National Education Association -- the largest of the nation's
teachers unions -- has a long history of backing left-wing issues
which have nothing to do with the well-being of its members,
observers point out.  Moreover, many of its stands run contrary
to the political views of many of its members.  The National
Center for Policy Analysis estimates that some 40 percent of the
NEA's 2.3 million members are at odds with the organization's
agenda.

Here is a brief profile of its interests:

   o   It wants the U.S. to nationalize health care, start a
   nuclear freeze, adopt national energy policies and pass
   more gun-control laws.

   o   At its 1998 convention, the NEA passed resolutions
   denouncing school vouchers and opposing home schooling --
   and it has taken stands against testing of teachers.

   o   It believes environmental education should encourage
   "protection of the Earth's finite resources" and raise
   awareness of overpopulation, "global warming, ozone
   depletion and acid precipitation."

   o   It claims that all people have a right to housing and
   health insurance at taxpayers' expense, and would use
   money saved from any reductions in the defense budget for
   "alternative civilian uses, including education" -- rather
   than for tax cuts.

During the 1996 elections, 99 percent of its political action
committee donations went to Democratic candidates.  The second
largest teachers union, the 900,000-member American Federation of
Teachers, made similar lop-sided contributions to Democrats.

Analysts at the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution report that if
the NEA's agenda were fully implemented, the cost to American
taxpayers would be $700 billion a year.

Source: Michael Chapman, "The NEA's Political Lesson Plan,"
Investor's Business Daily, January 5, 1999.

For more on Teacher Unions' Opposition to Choice
http://www.ncpa.org/pi/edu/edu11.html#e

GOVERNORS WANT ON-LINE COMMERCE TAXED

Last year, Congress declared a three-year moratorium on taxes
levied on sales through the Internet.  After that, the future of
Internet taxation will largely rest in the hands of a panel
established by the Internet Tax Freedom Act to study the
question.

Opponents of taxation say the states can function very well
without taking more money from their citizen's pockets.

   o   Commerce across state lines is subject to state taxes only
   when both seller and buyer are in the same state -- or
   when the seller maintains a physical presence in the
   buyer's state.

   o   Thus mail order commerce has mostly escaped sales taxes,
   without harming state revenues.

   o   In fact, 45 states had revenues of $11.4 billion in excess
   of what they expected in 1998.

On-line commerce is expected to produce $300 billion in annual
sales by 2002, and the National Governors' Association is on
record favoring the right to impose Internet taxes.

Source: Editorial, "Killing the Electronic Goose," Investor's
Business Daily, January 5, 1999.

For more on State Taxes http://www.ncpa.org/pi/taxes/tax51.htm

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Read this post. It is about senseless and cruel men andhelpless vic

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 03:15 PM 1/5/99 -0500, Howard Davis wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>E Mael wrote:
>>
>
>> it takes a white man to make a wasteland
>>
>   Well, I don't think that is completely accurate, even if perhaps it
>is true that "white men" are the masters of this ability and could, in
>fact, turn the whole earth into a waste land. However, I believe that
>men of other ethnicity have been able to do this (although to a limited
>extent). For instance, Lebenon was once known for its forests. I
>understand that has greatly changed. Many other areas of the earth have
>also been depleted. I believe this was the case in many parts of the
>"New World" even before the arrival of the "white man". So, I would not
>wish to appear racist by saying "white men" are the only ones who have
>been able to demonstrate this ability.
>
>best wishes, Howard Davis

Your post is exceedingly and unnecessarily cruel to those persons whose
feelings of moral superiority necessitate their bearing a burden of guilt
and forever paying penance for the actions of distant ancestors (real or
imagined).  It is unwise, as well as nonproductive, to interject factual
information into a religious conversation.

Barb

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Midwife who delivered Clinton adds fuel to row over his birt

[Scramjet1]

 -Caveat Lector-

Dig up Bill Blythe! Order a DNA test!


Best,


Harry Allen

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] [Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison]

[Robert Tatman]

 -Caveat Lector-

YnrChyldzWyld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Whether Native Americans corraled bison or drove them off cliffs, the
> FACT of the matter is that at the time the Europeans showed up, bison
> numbered in the MILLIONS, and their accounts relate migrations where
> bison herds filled the land from horizon to horizon FOR DAYS...
>
> And yet within a few years of the railroad coming thru, the bison had
> been almost exterminated...
>
> So whatever hunting methods Indians used, even if they 'wasted' half a
> bison when butchering it, the FACT of the matter is that their methods
> did NOT wipe out the herds, but in fact seem to have made the herds more
> vigorous...while the European hunting methods did just the opposite...
>
>
> June

Two comments on this thread: first, to speak of "the  Indians" is
about like speaking of "the Europeans"--there is more difference between
Lakota and Mohawk than between Spaniard and Russian. *Some* of the Indians
sometimes drove bison off of cliffs; *some* corralled them; *some* Indians
didn't even hunt bison. Second, anything the Indians might have done to the
detriment of the environment pales beside the "accomplishments" of American
"civilization." The Indians didn't almost wipe out the bison; *we* (Europeans)
did. The Indians didn't exterminate the passenger pigeon; *we* did. The
Indians didn't practice genocide against white settlers; *we* used germ
warfare and forced relocation and outright massacre against the Indians. To
accuse the Indians of doing precisely what we know damn well our ancestors
(*my* ancestors, anyway, William!) did to the land, is hypocrisy and
small-mindedness.

Bob


=
Robert F. Tatman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Remove "nospam" from the address to reply.

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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Re: [MC] NSA papers

[Andrew Hennessey]

 -Caveat Lector-

re NSA using religions for mass control 

here was I talking about exactly these issues with the Urantian Cult and some
person more interested in a 250 emails full of Clinton garbage gave me a
hard time
and said that I was talking about a GAME and not paying due reverence to the
hundreds of postings about Clintons half-witted doings.
Next time you accuse me of Gaming - I may tell you about MY persecution by
the
UK Security Service - that'll be some serious shit for you to get huffy about

Andrew Hennessey

>Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Read this post. It is about senseless and cruel men andhelpless vic

[Howard R. Davis III]

 -Caveat Lector-

E Mael wrote:
>

> it takes a white man to make a wasteland
>
   Well, I don't think that is completely accurate, even if perhaps it
is true that "white men" are the masters of this ability and could, in
fact, turn the whole earth into a waste land. However, I believe that
men of other ethnicity have been able to do this (although to a limited
extent). For instance, Lebenon was once known for its forests. I
understand that has greatly changed. Many other areas of the earth have
also been depleted. I believe this was the case in many parts of the
"New World" even before the arrival of the "white man". So, I would not
wish to appear racist by saying "white men" are the only ones who have
been able to demonstrate this ability.

best wishes, Howard Davis

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Rachel's Enviroment & Health WEEKLY #631

[Howard R. Davis III]

 -Caveat Lector-

L. Shipton wrote:

> most households find that their incomes,
> adjusted for inflation, are no higher today than they were in
> 1989, when the last expansion ended.

So are you saying that we need to return to the polocies of Ronald
Reagan who had been president during this last expansion?

best wishes, Howard Davis

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Re: [CTRL] [[CTRL] Cain and Abel: True Model For Progressive Thought]

[Robert Tatman]

 -Caveat Lector-

Brian Redman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The true nature of  revolution  is  revealed  in a recent book by
> Frank J. Sulloway, "Born To Rebel."  (New  York:   Random  House,
> 1996. ISBN: 0-679-44232-4.) Sullowayargues   that
> rebelliousness is statistically discernable by Darwinian niche.

> Statistical evidence that the true revolutionaries tend to be the
> later  borns;  that  the   first-borns   tend  to  identify  with
> authority.


With all due respect, this is so much hogwash. I have Sulloway's book; I've
read part of it, but didn't finish it. I am a first-born. My wife is a
first-born. In each of our families, we were the rebels, the ones who resisted
the established order; it was our younger siblings who succeeded academically
and moved into positions of authority in society. "Success," as the world
measures success, has been a long time coming for us...but we have accumulated
lots of scars in the struggle against the Oligarchy and its minions.

Bob


=
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [CTRL] Midwife who delivered Clinton adds fuel to row over his ...

[E Mael]

 -Caveat Lector-

[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
>How many posts on this thread will it take for someone to declare that
>Clinton, being the Antichrist, was fathered by you know who?
>
>Jerry


jomama?

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==
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Om

[CTRL] Two Cows (humor)

[KFord74987]

 -Caveat Lector-

> FEUDALISM: You have two cows. Your lord takes some of the milk.
>
> PURE SOCIALISM: You have two cows. The government takes them and
> puts them in a barn with everyone else's cows.  You have to take
> care of all the cows.  The government gives you as much milk as
> you need.
>
> BUREAUCRATIC SOCIALISM: You have two cows. The government takes
> them and puts them in a barn with everyone else's cows. They are
> cared for by exchicken farmers. You have to take care of the
> chickens the government took from the chicken farmers. The
> government gives you as much milk and as many eggs as the
> regulations say you should need.
>
> FASCISM: You have two cows. The government takes both, hires you
> to take care of them, and sells you the milk.
>
> PURE COMMUNISM: You have two cows. Your neighbors help you take
> care of them, and you all share the milk.
>
> RUSSIAN COMMUNISM: You have two cows. You have to take care of
> them, but the government takes all the milk.
>
> DICTATORSHIP: You have two cows. The government takes both and
> shoots you.
>
> SINGAPOREAN DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. The government fines
> you for keeping two unlicensed farm animals in an apartment.
>
> MILITARIANISM: You have two cows. The government takes both and
> drafts you.
>
> PURE DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. Your neighbors decide who
> gets the milk.
>
> REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. Your neighbors pick
> someone to tell you who gets the milk.
>
> AMERICAN DEMOCRACY: The government promises to give you two cows
> if you vote for it. After the election, the president is
> impeached for speculating in cow futures. The press dubs the
> affair "Cowgate".
>
> BRITISH DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. You feed them sheeps'
> brains and they go mad. The government doesn't do anything.
>
> BUREAUCRACY: You have two cows. At first the government
> regulates what you can feed them and when you can milk them.
> Then it pays you not to milk them. After that it takes both,
> shoots one, milks the other and pours the milk down the drain.
> Then it requires you to fill out forms accounting for the
> missing cows..
>
> ANARCHY: You have two cows. Either you sell the milk at a fair
> price or your neighbors try to kill you and take the cows.
>
> CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.
>
> HONG KONG CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell three of them
> to your publicly  listed company, using letters of credit
> opened by your brother  in  law at the bank, then execute a
> debt / equity swap with associated general offer so that you get
> all four cows back, with a tax deduction for keeping five cows.
> The milk rights of six cows are transferred via a Panamanian
> intermediary to a Cayman Islands company secretly owned by the
> majority shareholder, who sells the rights to all seven cows'
> milk back to the listed company.  The annual report says that
> the company owns eight cows, with an option on one more.
> Meanwhile, you kill the two cows because the fung shiu is bad.
>

> ENVIRONMENTALISM: You have two cows. The government bans you
> from milking or killing them.
>
> FEMINISM: You have two cows. They get married and adopt a veal
> calf.
>
> TOTALITARIANISM: You have two cows. The government takes them
> and denies they ever existed. Milk is banned.
>
> COUNTER CULTURE: Wow, dude, there's like... these two cows, man.
> You got to have some of this milk.
>
> SURREALISM: You have two giraffes. The government requires you
> to take harmonica lessons.
>
> LIBERTARIANISM: You have two cows. One has actually read the
> constitution, believes in it, and has some really good ideas
> about government.  The cow runs for office, and while most
> people agree that the cow is the best candidate, nobody except
> the other cow votes for her because they think it would be
> "throwing their vote away."

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

[William Hugh Tunstall]

 -Caveat Lector-

If you are going to spew forth such absolute bullshit, please document it.
What academic sources are you using in your "research" on the conditions
of blacks in the American South during the days of slavery?


On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Hawk wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
>
> >  -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > I'm all for your right to own an elephant, Hawk.
> > Go for it.
> >
> > However, I think your argument that private owners make better
> > caretakers because they are interested in protecting their investment
> > might be a little weak.
>
> I don't think its weak at all... Most people don't take care of "other peoples' 
>stuff" as well
> as they care for their own... I'll bet you use more generous portions of toilet 
>paper in a motel
> than you do when you're directly paying for it.  Ever heard the old saying, "I'll 
>beat you like
> a government mule"???  The basis for that little phrase is that people just don't 
>take care of
> government stuff as well as they do their own.  There are a zillion examples to 
>support  it.
>
> > It resembles the arguments used by white slaveowners during the Abolitionist 
>debates...  "We
> > love our slaves...after all, they're investments..  We have to take care of them 
>or they lose
> > their value.."
>
> It was, I might add, a valid argument.  I've done a bit of research in that aspect 
>of economics
> and history.  For your information, the typical Negro slave received back, over the 
>period of
> his life, about 90% of the wealth he produced... He had a longer life expectency 
>than white
> Europeans of the time, and was better off in practically every measurable aspect of 
>economic
> life and physical health than was any  "peasant class" worker in the world 
>(specifically factory
> workers in the industrial north and Europe).
>
> Hawk
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> 
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> Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

[William Hugh Tunstall]

 -Caveat Lector-

Re: government subsidies.  I don't disagree with you on this point.  Why
should the government subsidize a particular economic sector (or special
interest group) and not others?  But that is how the game of power is
played.  The government is particularly generous to business interests of
various sorts: Savings and Loan bailouts, bailouts to Mexican investors,
bailouts to Wall Street junk bond investors, subsidies to defense
contractors not to mention billions of dollars in armaments to
oppressive dictators in central America, South America and wherever else
peasants are seeking to overthrow their rulers.  So, the subject of tax
dollars going to finance any number of dubious schemes/boondoggles/etc. is
a complex one.
My tax dollars have supported the murder of millions of peasants around
the world... in order to help some greedy corporate elites to make money
off of the misery of poor people...  I had no vote on the matter.  Why
should my tax dollars go to support United Fruit in Guatemala and El
Salvador?

Re: NAFTA
American workers have seen their businesses sent to Mexico...thanks to
NAFTA. Are you aware of the fact that government agencies work with
private businesses to help them close down their American operations to
move to slave labor markets overseas?

Re: "sending kids off to war."  Your caustic comment notwithstanding, you
nor I wouldn't be enjoying the freedoms we do have, if it wasn't for the
sacrifice of others...  Perhaps, they were "stupid" to fight for this
country.  I don't think so.

Re: "paying bills." People have been paying YOUR bill for a long time.
They paid at Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Omaha, and a helluva lot of other places..
so you OWE something to this country...
A lot of Americans have paid the price so that you can have your miserable
little life.  You should be proud to be a citizen...greatful to have the
money to pay.  Or maybe it's time for you to move to the Cayman Islands or
some taxhaven with others of your ilk.
Regards,
Wm

On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Hawk wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
>
> >  -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > You need to do some research on the subject, H. (with all due respect).
> > The Canadian government is subsidizing their producers.
>
> I don't care at all what the Canadian govm't subsidizes or doesn't subsidize.  I 
>would be
> delighted if they bought every grain of Canadian wheat and gave it to me free.
>
> > Your remarks about agricultural subsidies demonstrates your basic lack of 
>knowledge about
> > conditions in the agricultural sector.
>
> I freely admit to "lack of knowledge" about conditions in the agricultural sector.  
>However,
> I don't have to have a great deal of knowledge to know that it is wrong for the 
>govm't to
> take MY money, against my will, and give it to farmers.  Anything beyond that 
>knowledge on
> the subject of subsidies is immaterial.
>
> By the way, I just read in this morning's Dallas Morning News that the U.S. 
>Agriculture Dept
> (which has more employees than there are farmers in the U.S.) has "settled a 
>lawsuit" with
> Negro farmers, in which the "farmers" will get a $50,000 cash award, plus all debts 
>to the
> govm't will be canceled, which are estimated to be between $75,000 and $100,000 
>each.  Do I
> have to be more knowlegable than that to know that I'm being screwed?
>
> > The reason why you should "buy American" is quite simple.  Your dollars are going 
>to
> > insure the continued productivity of our domestic economy.
>
> You've taken the bait, I see.  You're telling me that I have some obligation to 
>support
> people who otherwise cannot make a living at their chosen profession.  Sir, I am not
> responsible for their inept farming or business practices, nor for their choice of 
>how to
> make a living.  They aren't responsible for mine either, by the way.
>
> > The wheat farmers are Americans who pay taxes, send their kids off to war
> > to protect the country.
>
> I pay my taxes, too... But I don't get a subsidy from farmers so I can be 
>self-employed...
> And as for sending their kids off to war, then they are stupid to boot.  I am not
> responsible for other peoples' stupidity.
>
> > If the wheat farmers do well economically, rural America does well...
>
> So, I should pay higher prices than the free market will bear is that right?  So 
>"rural
> America will do well"??? And, by the same token, I should pay higher prices for 
>automobiles
> so the United Autoworkers will do well?  And exhorbitant taxes to support inferior 
>schools
> so the teachers "will do well?"  Give me a break!
>
> > The agricultural sector supports thousands of small businesses throughout the 
>American
> > Midwest.  Each dollar that is spent in a rural community is "rolled over" several 
>times
> > through that community.
>
> Good... Spend your own dollars, and stop taking mine... If that's your objective, go 
>right
> ahead... But don't force me support people who don't give a damn w

Re: [CTRL] Apocalypse 2000

[Source - Richard]

 -Caveat Lector-

No, he was predicting that his record sales would eventually be zero zero by 1999.

Stopforth, Jamie wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>  I always wondered what "Prince" or "The Artist Formerly Known as
>Prince" meant in his song "1999" when he said...  "Two-thousand, zero, zero
>party's over, it's out of time."  I guess I know now...  Wonder if he was
>knowingly referring to the Y2K computer glitch or if it's just a weird
>coincidence...
>
> Jamie
>
>
>
>> The usual breathtaking insights from Michael Hoffman.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Michael A. Hoffman II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
>> Date: Friday, January 01, 1999 12:32 PM
>> Subject: Michael A. Hoffman II on: Apocalypse 2000
>>
>>
>> Apocalypse 2000
>>
>> Copyright©1999 by Michael A. Hoffman II http://www.hoffman-info.com
>>
>> As we approach the Year 2000 and millennial madness begins to manifest in
>> all its amusing pagan frenzy, I am not so much interested in the claims
>> made for what shall or shall not transpire after the great chronological
>> divide has been crossed, but rather in what people believe about those
>> claims.
>>
>> There may be little of consequence in the claim of industrial and
>> technological collapse on Jan. 1, 2000 but if people believe a catastrophe
>> will occur, they will by their own volition and credulity, make it come to
>> pass.
>>
>> The widespread belief in and resulting panic associated with the Y2K doom
>> scenario indicates an enormous fatigue. The denizens of the technological
>> imperium are weary of their gadgets and believe they should be punished
>> for using them, so they conceive of a world reduced to the Neolithic.
>>
>> I do not believe that a population of superior people would have any
>> significant difficulties with ³Y2K² since the history of the West is the
>> history of surmounting technological difficulties.
>>
>> I have seen some hint that a technological remedy to the Y2K computer
>> glitch has been at hand since last summer but is being withheld.
>> But aside from that, I am fascinating by the emergence of the cult of
>> limitation which accompanies the mob reaction to Y2K.
>>
>> Suddenly man is paralyzed by two zeros.
>>
>> Two zeros in a Unix system will collapse western civilization.
>>
>> What a complete reversal of the spirit of OE69, which saw German
>> scientists
>> Arthur Rudolf and Werner Von Braun place men on the moon.
>>
>> Yet this new sense of limitation is not all bad. It signifies a profound
>> anxiety over the direction of our technological imperium as it grows
>> increasingly alien and artificial, particularly in the pharmaceutical
>> usurpation of agriculture and the growth of gene-manipulated modern
>> ³foods.²
>>
>> But these appropriate concerns are being manipulated and diverted into mob
>> panic. Monsanto and the other corporations who are at present the
>> equivalent of the city-states of Medici Italy--that is to say, nations
>> unto themselves on the British East India model--will emerge stronger
>> after the Y2K millennial panic is in full swing, as will FEMA and the
>> other departments of the Federal leviathan.
>>
>> The rulers of the age require chiefly one form of energy from the masses:
>> fear.
>> The chief agent of these rulers in our time is the American right wing,
>> the greatest repository of fear and fear-mongering rumors, which almost
>> always concern the alleged enormous power of our rulers and the dark fate
>> they have in store for us.
>>
>> Being cowans and dupes, these rightists have no ³knowledge of the
>> equilibrium,² no knowledge that fear is the glue that holds the Evil
>> Empire together.
>>
>> More than an adhesive, fear is a magnet, attracting precisely that which
>> is most feared and bringing it into materialization as reality.
>> It is for this reason that the Bible states, ³Fear God and you need fear
>> no other.²
>>
>> But the American right wing is a cesspool of fear--fear of the U.N., the
>> FBI, Bill Clinton, the ³Jews,² and the media. They have woven these
>> disparate forces into an invincible web of power over themselves and
>> constantly imagine impending doom and gloom.
>>
>> Without even knowing it, the Right is practicing pagan sorcery by just
>> such means. I have just described the mechanics of primitive witchcraft,
>> or perhaps we should call this self-fulfilling prophecy, ³wishcraft.²
>>
>> It has been used by harlequin hucksters at market stands of the Middle
>> Ages and in our day by Gallup  pollsters, Madison Avenue advertisers and a
>> legion of agents planted deep in the right wing as well as in the pulpits
>> of Judeo-Churchianity, both Catholic and Protestant.
>>
>> To the historian this ³End Time² situation is so familiar as to be
>> humorous.
>> On December 31 of the year 999, at the steps of the old basilica of St.
>> Peter¹s in Rome, a throng of weeping, cowering and trembling peasants
>> awaited the end of the world. They fought with one a

Re: [CTRL] Midwife who delivered Clinton adds fuel to row over his...

[nurev]

 -Caveat Lector-

Gerald Harp wrote:
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 1/5/99 10:43:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> > Mr Clinton was brought up to believe he was sired by Bill Blythe, an accused
> > bigamist
>
> Sired?
>
> How many posts on this thread will it take for someone to declare that
> Clinton, being the Antichrist, was fathered by you know who?
>
> Jerry

The Pope?

J2

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==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Read this post. It is about senseless and cruel menan...

[Hawk]

 -Caveat Lector-

Gerald Harp wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> >  In reality, it was the Southern soldiers who were fighting for the
> >  principle of self-government.
>
> Is there anything so jaw dropping inexplicable than the few who attempt to
> make the South out as a victim of the North over the Civil War?

It may be as you describe, if you are as ignorant as your statement suggests.

> There are "shrines" to Jefferson Davis and Stonewall Jackson.  Take a tour of
> the South and your ear will be bent by a guide babbling about how cruel the
> Yankees were at Vicksburg.

Are you suggesting that the citizens and soldiers Vicksburg was not treated rather
cruelly?  They were at war, and it makes sense that their attackers would blow
things up and kill people... Vicksburg isn't, however, a good example to
illustrate cruelty.  There are far better ones.

> Listening to them, one would never guess that the South was run by a gang of
> slavers who do not at all correspond to those portrayed in Gone With the Wind as
> kindly masters taking loving care of some child like people.

You learned this in public school, no doubt.  I will challenge you to share your
evidence, and will in like manner share mine... Your choice of words indicates
that you prefer emotionalism to objective discussion, however..  For instance, the
elected government of the South was no more a "gang of slavers" than was the north
a "gang of slave traders."

> Of course, things are complicated and there were many decent Christian
> Southerners who smuggled slaves, spied on Southern military units, and
> sabotaged when possible.

You mean the traitors?

> There were right-wing Northerners who spoke and acted for the South.  There were
> slave holding prosperous free blacks in the South.  There were a few slave
> holders who did treat their slaves with some shred of fairness considering the
> relationship.

A few?  I believe the documentation of the era supports that such was the norm.
Unless, of course, your study of history is mainly pulp such as "Uncle Tom's
Cabin."

> The real point is that every son of the South who involves himself in
> discussions about the Civil War should get down on his knees and thank God that
> the Union won the war thereby freeing both slave and "free" Southerner.

Absurd... The war was never intended to free the slave, but to enslave the
master... and its objective was accomplished.

And I, for one, will not "thank God" for having my country over-run by the
imperial United States, and making my state a mere administrative extension of an
over-bearing and increasingly intolerable Central Govm't...

Hawk

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] It's only fiction. Right. The Blood Trail

[Hilary Thomas]

 
-Original Message-From: 
Martha &/or James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: 
Monday, January 04, 1999 11:13 PMSubject: [exploration] It's only 
fiction. Right. Written in Blood (An 
Interview with Michael Sullivan) http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3640a55a6b89.htm 

Topic: White Water 
Written in Blood (An Interview with Michael Sullivan) 
JANUARY Magazine (literary) October, 1998 Linda Richards 
January Magazine 
Written In Blood 
Interview with Michael Sullivan, by Linda Richards 
He doesn't look like a lunatic. Crisply dressed and coifed, his blue eyes 
smile quickly -- though not for our cameras -- and his graying-blond hair 
stays neatly placed. He is, he tells me, a son of the south and this is verified 
by his voice: as close to clipped as a southern accent gets. An educated 
voice, certainly. But one that is, nonetheless, punctuated by the region 
that spawned him. He does not wear a white suit, but if he did it wouldn't 
look strange. In short, he doesn't look or sound at all like someone 
hatching a plot or grinding an ax, though looks can be deceiving. 
If half of the things Michael Sullivan is saying are true, the 
Clinton-Lewinsky scandal starts to look like a children's sandbox creation. 
Interesting for a while, but more crumble than substance. If it's not true, it 
still seems likely that Sullivan is going to sell a lot of books. 
"I want to go on record as saying I am not planning on committing 
suicide," Sullivan says earnestly. "I plan to live a long, long 
time." 
My interview with Sullivan did not go at all as planned. I arrived expecting 
to speak with the author of an interesting new suspense novel. I planned to 
talk to him about his writing process and perhaps his life, interests and 
favorite pets. The last thing I'd anticipated was being led down a dark path 
of conspiracy featuring some of the largest characters in international 
politics: especially some of those who (ahem) have been getting a lot of 
press in recent months. 
I had, of course, noticed some more than fleeting similarities between one of 
Blood Trail's major characters and a certain former governor from Arkansas. 
This I put down to the richness of fiction and the fact that Sullivan is a 
native of that state. 
However, it would seem that Sullivan's interest runs less to literature than 
it does to high level machinations: at least in this instance. With some 
passion Sullivan spoke at length about what led him to write Blood Trail. 
The fictional work focuses on two men from Arkansas. Robert Davis Prescott 
has been groomed almost from birth to take a place in American history. 
David Farr is the Vietnam Vet whose son is stricken with AIDS from a blood 
transfusion given to him in Canada. Farr wants to find out who is 
responsible, and is somewhat surprised when the trail -- the Blood Trail, if 
you will -- leads back to his home state and eventually to the White House 
and Prescott. 
Sullivan -- though it's not the writer's real name, and he's not talking -- 
is a doctor who says he was a medical practitioner for the Arkansas prison 
system between 1982 and, "off and on, to the present time." He says 
that he knew that blood was being drawn from sick and infected Arkansas 
prisoners but he didn't know where the blood was being sold and distributed. 
In 1995, says Sullivan, he learned about infections and death in Canada, 
where the Arkansas blood had ended up. Sullivan says he became determined to 
find out more. The result of that research, says Sullivan, is in the novel Blood 
Trail. A story that while it's almost unbelievable, Sullivan says only 
begins to scratch the surface of the truth. 
Linda Richards: So is Bob Prescott's resemblance to Bill Clinton 
unintentional? 
Michael Sullivan: I had certain information when I started the book. 
Actually, not very much. I worked in the system. I knew they were taking 
blood from very sick people. I knew the group was basically corrupt. And it 
wasn't until years later that I realized that they didn't have a way to 
clean up. It was not until 1995 and the initial Krever investigation was 
kicked off that one article appeared in the Associated Press that said that 
tainted blood in Canada had been taken from Arkansas prisoners. And I said, 
'God Almighty!' because I'd forgotten about it. I was in it. I knew certain 
things. You know, it was like this huge guilt rush hit me because I hadn't 
investigated it. That's not my specialty. I just assumed mistakenly that 
they had a way to manufacture some kind of clean product. 
Suddenly I remembered how Clinton had stood in and protected the HMA [Health 
Management Associates] through everything. Because they'd come under fire 
not because of plasma but because they hired drug addicts and they hired 
guys that had lost their medical licenses and several other things, especially 
dealing with narcotics. They'd come under fire from the media. Clinton had 
protected and in fact

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

[PRUDYL]

 -Caveat Lector-

You're too right.  Isn't it sad?  Prudy

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

[Hawk]

 -Caveat Lector-

William Hugh Tunstall wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> I'm all for your right to own an elephant, Hawk.
> Go for it.
>
> However, I think your argument that private owners make better
> caretakers because they are interested in protecting their investment
> might be a little weak.

I don't think its weak at all... Most people don't take care of "other peoples' stuff" 
as well
as they care for their own... I'll bet you use more generous portions of toilet paper 
in a motel
than you do when you're directly paying for it.  Ever heard the old saying, "I'll beat 
you like
a government mule"???  The basis for that little phrase is that people just don't take 
care of
government stuff as well as they do their own.  There are a zillion examples to 
support  it.

> It resembles the arguments used by white slaveowners during the Abolitionist 
>debates...  "We
> love our slaves...after all, they're investments..  We have to take care of them or 
>they lose
> their value.."

It was, I might add, a valid argument.  I've done a bit of research in that aspect of 
economics
and history.  For your information, the typical Negro slave received back, over the 
period of
his life, about 90% of the wealth he produced... He had a longer life expectency than 
white
Europeans of the time, and was better off in practically every measurable aspect of 
economic
life and physical health than was any  "peasant class" worker in the world 
(specifically factory
workers in the industrial north and Europe).

Hawk

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Chinese Expect "Interesting" Times

[PRUDYL]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/5/99 12:27:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<<
 1999 to be an "interesting" year for China. Chinese Warlords anticipate the
 economic
 slowdown will get drastically worse. Already millions of recent unemployed
 and millions
 of poor angry farmers. >>

Odd.  The Year of the Rabbit starts on February l6th, and it is considered a
placid year in which we can recoverer from the ferocious Year of the Tiger.
Prudy

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

[Hawk]

 -Caveat Lector-

William Hugh Tunstall wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> You need to do some research on the subject, H. (with all due respect).
> The Canadian government is subsidizing their producers.

I don't care at all what the Canadian govm't subsidizes or doesn't subsidize.  I would 
be
delighted if they bought every grain of Canadian wheat and gave it to me free.

> Your remarks about agricultural subsidies demonstrates your basic lack of knowledge 
>about
> conditions in the agricultural sector.

I freely admit to "lack of knowledge" about conditions in the agricultural sector.  
However,
I don't have to have a great deal of knowledge to know that it is wrong for the govm't 
to
take MY money, against my will, and give it to farmers.  Anything beyond that 
knowledge on
the subject of subsidies is immaterial.

By the way, I just read in this morning's Dallas Morning News that the U.S. 
Agriculture Dept
(which has more employees than there are farmers in the U.S.) has "settled a lawsuit" 
with
Negro farmers, in which the "farmers" will get a $50,000 cash award, plus all debts to 
the
govm't will be canceled, which are estimated to be between $75,000 and $100,000 each.  
Do I
have to be more knowlegable than that to know that I'm being screwed?

> The reason why you should "buy American" is quite simple.  Your dollars are going to
> insure the continued productivity of our domestic economy.

You've taken the bait, I see.  You're telling me that I have some obligation to support
people who otherwise cannot make a living at their chosen profession.  Sir, I am not
responsible for their inept farming or business practices, nor for their choice of how 
to
make a living.  They aren't responsible for mine either, by the way.

> The wheat farmers are Americans who pay taxes, send their kids off to war
> to protect the country.

I pay my taxes, too... But I don't get a subsidy from farmers so I can be 
self-employed...
And as for sending their kids off to war, then they are stupid to boot.  I am not
responsible for other peoples' stupidity.

> If the wheat farmers do well economically, rural America does well...

So, I should pay higher prices than the free market will bear is that right?  So 
"rural
America will do well"??? And, by the same token, I should pay higher prices for 
automobiles
so the United Autoworkers will do well?  And exhorbitant taxes to support inferior 
schools
so the teachers "will do well?"  Give me a break!

> The agricultural sector supports thousands of small businesses throughout the 
>American
> Midwest.  Each dollar that is spent in a rural community is "rolled over" several 
>times
> through that community.

Good... Spend your own dollars, and stop taking mine... If that's your objective, go 
right
ahead... But don't force me support people who don't give a damn whether or not I have 
to
pay too much for what I buy.

> When you buy American products, you are supporting your country.  It's that simple.

Yep... That's one of the most "simple" things a person could say

> You are indirectly the beneficiary of the economic wellbeing of your fellow citizens.

Maybe so, but I am DIRECTLY the victim of having my money extorted from me.  Anytime 
someone
starts talking about how I will benefit from someone else's govm't support, I 
automatically
reach for my wallet.

> The farmers pay taxes that support basic services like schools, highways, medical
> services...

Then they're being conned, too... Welcome to the club.

> If your fellow citizens go under economically, eventually, YOU will be asked to pay 
>for
> their welfare.

"Eventually, my ass!"  I'm already being FORCED to pay for their welfare.  I don't 
recall
being "asked."

> Their economic distress undermines your own economic security.  How so?

They need to get a job that pays a living without extorting my money to subsidize their
lifestyle...

> Re-read your American history.  Take a look at the American Depression. When money is
> taken out of an economy, out of the pockets of ordinary working people, the system
> eventually collapses.

That's my point... "MONEY IS BEING TAKEN OUT OF MY POCKET" and, you're right, the 
system
will indeed collapse.

> Re: Your "tribal mentality" remarks.  They are fundamentally racist and absurd.

Yeah, yeah... You haven't a clue about who I am or what my ideas about "race" are.  As 
for
the results, which is what I commented on, do you deny it?

> First of all, Native Americans did not have a "money" economy.

That's because they didn't have any money Everything is "the property of the 
tribe."
That's why they were living in tents, and why they now live in hovels.  The point is, 
they
created no wealth, and having no one the tax, they were destitute.

> Re: "God made animals for us" comments.  They're made for the plate? An
> interesting argument.  I would only point out that we might consider some
> healthier, "kinder and gentler" (borrowing a phrase) ways of taking care
> of o

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

[PRUDYL]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/4/99 11:56:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<<
 They were also stupid enough not to realize the value of personal ownership
of wealth,
 and the productive power of capitalism... After all, that's why they were
living in
 tents and barely subsisting... "Hunters and gatherers" don't have any capital
to carry
 them over in hard times (such as a bad hunting season).  "Tribal mentality"
is the
 same as "slave mentality," which isn't known to result in creation of wealth
and
 prosperity. >>

The Native Americans should have been ashamed of themselves not to realize the
commercial value of property.   Of coure they were doing beautifully before
the colonists started killing them, but they just should have understood that
grabbing the most of everything is the mark of true civilization.  Maybe they
already understood the words I saw on an announcement board outside a local
church.  "When we die, we leave what we have and take what we are."  Prudy

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Read this post. It is about senseless and cruel men and ...

[William Hugh Tunstall]

 -Caveat Lector-

Excellent post, G.!

On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Gerald Harp wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 1/5/99 12:50:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
>
> >  What is your explanation for the seeming ability of a
> >  capitalist society to sustain so many more people on the same land mass?
>
> Have all the other people of the earth agreed upon a goal without telling me?
> Is there really some game whose winner is determined by what country sustains
> the most people per square mile of land?  Is Bangladesh the winner?
>
> Jerry
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> 
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
> To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
> Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Apocalypse 2000

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

  I always wondered what "Prince" or "The Artist Formerly Known as
Prince" meant in his song "1999" when he said...  "Two-thousand, zero, zero
party's over, it's out of time."  I guess I know now...  Wonder if he was
knowingly referring to the Y2K computer glitch or if it's just a weird
coincidence...

 Jamie



> The usual breathtaking insights from Michael Hoffman.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael A. Hoffman II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
> Date: Friday, January 01, 1999 12:32 PM
> Subject: Michael A. Hoffman II on: Apocalypse 2000
>
>
> Apocalypse 2000
>
> Copyright©1999 by Michael A. Hoffman II http://www.hoffman-info.com
>
> As we approach the Year 2000 and millennial madness begins to manifest in
> all its amusing pagan frenzy, I am not so much interested in the claims
> made for what shall or shall not transpire after the great chronological
> divide has been crossed, but rather in what people believe about those
> claims.
>
> There may be little of consequence in the claim of industrial and
> technological collapse on Jan. 1, 2000 but if people believe a catastrophe
> will occur, they will by their own volition and credulity, make it come to
> pass.
>
> The widespread belief in and resulting panic associated with the Y2K doom
> scenario indicates an enormous fatigue. The denizens of the technological
> imperium are weary of their gadgets and believe they should be punished
> for using them, so they conceive of a world reduced to the Neolithic.
>
> I do not believe that a population of superior people would have any
> significant difficulties with ³Y2K² since the history of the West is the
> history of surmounting technological difficulties.
>
> I have seen some hint that a technological remedy to the Y2K computer
> glitch has been at hand since last summer but is being withheld.
> But aside from that, I am fascinating by the emergence of the cult of
> limitation which accompanies the mob reaction to Y2K.
>
> Suddenly man is paralyzed by two zeros.
>
> Two zeros in a Unix system will collapse western civilization.
>
> What a complete reversal of the spirit of OE69, which saw German
> scientists
> Arthur Rudolf and Werner Von Braun place men on the moon.
>
> Yet this new sense of limitation is not all bad. It signifies a profound
> anxiety over the direction of our technological imperium as it grows
> increasingly alien and artificial, particularly in the pharmaceutical
> usurpation of agriculture and the growth of gene-manipulated modern
> ³foods.²
>
> But these appropriate concerns are being manipulated and diverted into mob
> panic. Monsanto and the other corporations who are at present the
> equivalent of the city-states of Medici Italy--that is to say, nations
> unto themselves on the British East India model--will emerge stronger
> after the Y2K millennial panic is in full swing, as will FEMA and the
> other departments of the Federal leviathan.
>
> The rulers of the age require chiefly one form of energy from the masses:
> fear.
> The chief agent of these rulers in our time is the American right wing,
> the greatest repository of fear and fear-mongering rumors, which almost
> always concern the alleged enormous power of our rulers and the dark fate
> they have in store for us.
>
> Being cowans and dupes, these rightists have no ³knowledge of the
> equilibrium,² no knowledge that fear is the glue that holds the Evil
> Empire together.
>
> More than an adhesive, fear is a magnet, attracting precisely that which
> is most feared and bringing it into materialization as reality.
> It is for this reason that the Bible states, ³Fear God and you need fear
> no other.²
>
> But the American right wing is a cesspool of fear--fear of the U.N., the
> FBI, Bill Clinton, the ³Jews,² and the media. They have woven these
> disparate forces into an invincible web of power over themselves and
> constantly imagine impending doom and gloom.
>
> Without even knowing it, the Right is practicing pagan sorcery by just
> such means. I have just described the mechanics of primitive witchcraft,
> or perhaps we should call this self-fulfilling prophecy, ³wishcraft.²
>
> It has been used by harlequin hucksters at market stands of the Middle
> Ages and in our day by Gallup  pollsters, Madison Avenue advertisers and a
> legion of agents planted deep in the right wing as well as in the pulpits
> of Judeo-Churchianity, both Catholic and Protestant.
>
> To the historian this ³End Time² situation is so familiar as to be
> humorous.
> On December 31 of the year 999, at the steps of the old basilica of St.
> Peter¹s in Rome, a throng of weeping, cowering and trembling peasants
> awaited the end of the world. They fought with one another and tore at
> each others garments. Some had purchased various amulets and ³relics² at
> great cost to ward off the impending ³doom.²
>
> Others had abandoned their homes in the towns and joined strange sects
> preaching the 

[CTRL] Pesticide Exposure Affects Male Fertility

[Hilary Thomas]

Thursday December 31 3:57 PM ET 
Pesticide exposure affects male fertility
NEW YORK, Dec 31 (Reuters Health) -- A class of pesticides widely used in the 
developing world may disrupt men's reproductive hormone levels and contribute to 
fertility problems, according to a study in the December issue of the Journal of 
Occupational and Environmental Medicine. 
Previous research findings have suggested that exposure to organophosphate 
pesticides -- such as methyl- and ethylparathion -- can disrupt fertility. In 
experiments with mice, researchers found that exposure to methylparathion was 
associated with abnormal sperm production. 
In the new study, Dr. Xiping Xu of the Harvard School of Public Health in 
Boston, Massachusetts, and colleagues measured pesticide byproducts and 
reproductive hormone levels in urine, blood, and semen samples from 34 Chinese 
men working in a factory producing organophosphate pesticides, and 44 Chinese 
men working in a textile factory. 
After controlling for the men's ages, smoking habits and other factors that 
can affect hormonal levels, the researchers found that men who had relatively 
high levels of exposure to the pesticides showed small but significant sex 
hormone abnormalities. Among other things, these men produced decreased levels 
of testosterone. The greater the exposure, the greater the abnormalities. 
``We conclude that organophosphate pesticides have a small effect on male 
reproductive hormones,'' Xu and colleagues write. To the best of their 
knowledge, this is the first study that examines the effects of organophosphate 
pesticide exposure on the reproductive hormones of pesticide factory workers. 
Further study, with a larger group of men, is warranted to clarify the 
pesticides' effects on both hormone levels and reproductive function, they 
conclude. 
SOURCE: Journal of Occupational and Environmental Medicine 1998;40:1038-1047. 
Come join InTheShadows (formally known as 
exploration).  This is a discussionlist dedicated to keeping up-to-date 
with new technologies, advancements inmedicine, environmental concerns, 
'conspiracy theories', politics, and, ofcourse, UFO stuff.  Discussion 
is encouraged.  Bashing and soapboxing will getyou bounced off the 
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Re: [CTRL] Drudge Report

[William Hugh Tunstall]

 -Caveat Lector-

Since you admire Mr. Harding, would you please share with us some of the
great man's accomplishments?  What exactly did Warren do?

How did President Harding revolutionize and transform American society?
In 1999, do we speak of "the Harding vision" or "the Harding effect"?

(Did he pull the nation out of a depression?  Did he fight for the
protection of the civil liberties of all Americans? Did he build a
national highway system?

Was he witty? wise? profound?  Perhaps, we need a book devoted to him:
"The Wit and Wisdom of President Warren Harding."
But I don't mean to be unkind. He must have done something memorable. Or
perhaps his special genius, like so many Republicans, was in the
NOT-DOING.


Regards,
Wm

On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Howard R. Davis III wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
>  You may recall the one President in the
> > 1800s
> > (Warren Harding?) who had an son out of wed lock.  The newspapers and
> > political oposition hounded the President who was up for reelection as I
> > recall from my history with a number of things any of which was equivilant to
> > the current political climate.  One of the more humorous was the newspaper
> > cartoons which showed a boy chanting:
> > "Ma, Ma, Where's my Pa?  After the President won reelection, it was leaked out
> > from the White House "He went to the White House Ha, Ha, Ha.
> >
>Warren Harding does not fit with the rest of the story, though it was
> claimed that he had a child out of wedlock. Harding was president in
> 1921-3 and died in office. I consider him one of the best presidents of
> the 20th century.
>The president you seem to be referring to was Grover Cleveland
> 1885-1889 and 1893-1897.
>
> best wishes, Howard Davis
>
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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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