Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-21 Thread Peter Fairbrother
Kevin Elliott wrote: 2) rifled muskets were not effective because of the ponderous reload time (I don't have precise figures, but the number 1/6th-1/10th the rate of fire of a smoothbore musket comes to mind) There isn't that much difference in reload times - say 30 seconds for a Kentucky

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-20 Thread Mike Diehl
On Tuesday 19 November 2002 01:48 pm, Kevin Elliott wrote: Well, there nuggets and the larger truth... Rifles were widely used as sniper rifles by the Americans. They were commonly available (though expensive) because they are a far superior hunting tool than a smoothbore

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-20 Thread Kevin Elliott
At 14:06 -0700 on 11/19/02, Mike Diehl wrote: The british got VERY upset with us because of a tendency to shoot officers which was considered very bad form. I believe it was common practice to hang anyone found armed with a rifle for what amounted to war crimes. But again, very poor rate

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-20 Thread Tyler Durden
As to dangerous, I find that most of the people using violence in this country are anti-drug, not pro. Can't exactly agree with ya' here. Just watch COPS...most of those actually committing stupid crimes are apparently pro-Alchohol. Pot? We can't have THAT be legalized now, or the CIA will lose

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-20 Thread Jim Choate
On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Mike Diehl wrote: Granted. I wish we could go back to isolationism, but as the worlds only remaining Super Power, that seems unlikely. No matter what we do, we simply can't win. Life isn't a football game, quite 'trying to win' and I think you'd find a lot of issues

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-20 Thread Jim Choate
On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Tyler Durden wrote: Well, they have enough non-central leadership to all be against Israel and the US. And to have been at war against the Israelies since Bible times... OK, Mike, this is a good example of the kind of facts that lead to fairly easy (though erroneous)

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-20 Thread Tiarnan
MD == Mike Diehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: MD And the middle east is the only place we meddle? I think not. MD But the middle east is the only place who has overtly attacked MD us. A minor point about grammar and logic: places don't attack, overtly or covertly, neither are they

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-19 Thread Mike Diehl
All of your comments are very reasonable. I agree with most of them. However, I have to take issue with your comments on drugs and employment, and how we have hurt the Afghan people. As to drugs and employment. I'm glad to see that you recognized that a programer, like myself, has far fewer

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-19 Thread Tyler Durden
If we left them alone, we'd be in constant fear of various types of terrorism funded by many governments in that region. We'd always be a hostage to OPEC. These are probably the same arguments used by our state department, and I have to take exception with them. US involvement with the middle

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-19 Thread Mike Diehl
On Tuesday 19 November 2002 08:26 am, Tyler Durden wrote: If we left them alone, we'd be in constant fear of various types of terrorism funded by many governments in that region. We'd always be a hostage to OPEC. These are probably the same arguments used by our state

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-19 Thread Tyler Durden
Granted. I wish we could go back to isolationism, but as the worlds only remaining Super Power, that seems unlikely. No matter what we do, we simply can't win. When faced with a game I can't win, I either decide to not play, or I cheat. For the US, the first isn't an option.

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-19 Thread Mike Diehl
On Tuesday 19 November 2002 10:59 am, Tyler Durden wrote: Granted. I wish we could go back to isolationism, but as the worlds only remaining Super Power, that seems unlikely. No matter what we do, we simply can't win. When faced with a game I can't win, I either

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-19 Thread Kevin Elliott
At 13:14 -0700 on 11/19/02, Mike Diehl wrote: On Tuesday 19 November 2002 01:02 pm, Kevin Elliott wrote: Correction in the interest of historical accuracy. The idea that we succeeded in the revolutionary war by inventing a new form of warfare. The reality is that the british

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-19 Thread Kevin Elliott
At 10:37 -0700 on 11/19/02, Mike Diehl wrote: Unfortunately, terrorism is probably a predictable response by people who want to be able to control their own destinies, select their own leaders and forms of goivernment and so on. Yes, it's just a new form of warfare. During the

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-19 Thread Mike Diehl
On Tuesday 19 November 2002 01:02 pm, Kevin Elliott wrote: Correction in the interest of historical accuracy. The idea that we succeeded in the revolutionary war by inventing a new form of warfare. The reality is that the british were marching in formation for very, very

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-19 Thread James A. Donald
-- On 19 Nov 2002 at 12:02, Kevin Elliott wrote: If you read between the lines of US history, you'll discover that America did not begin to succeed in the war until late in the war when the troops had become better trained and disciplined. This is not my interpretation. Rather, the

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-15 Thread Harmon Seaver
On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 05:41:55PM -0500, Steve Furlong wrote: On Thursday 14 November 2002 12:16, Harmon Seaver wrote: It's all relative -- what Dubbya and Asscruft have done to destroy freedom in the US is far worse than anything Saddam has done. Iraq had no freedom to lose.

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-15 Thread Harmon Seaver
On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 11:13:06AM -0500, Mike Diehl wrote: Dubbya has only been in office about a year and a half, and in that time, he has destroyed Freedom in this country? I don't think so. I'm still able to practice my religion freely. How wonderful for you. Many of us sincerely

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-15 Thread Mike Diehl
On Thursday 14 November 2002 11:29 pm, Harmon Seaver wrote: How wonderful for you. Many of us sincerely wish we could practice our religion freely as well. And just who is stopping you? And what religion is it? I can criticize my government and stay out of prison.

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-15 Thread Steve Furlong
On Thursday 14 November 2002 12:16, Harmon Seaver wrote: It's all relative -- what Dubbya and Asscruft have done to destroy freedom in the US is far worse than anything Saddam has done. Iraq had no freedom to lose. So...When Iraqis are tortured to death, it's not really that bad because

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-15 Thread Mike Diehl
On Thursday 14 November 2002 12:16 pm, Harmon Seaver wrote: It's all relative Ya, very relative. -- what Dubbya and Asscruft have done to destroy freedom in the US is far worse than anything Saddam has done. Iraq had no freedom to lose. Is Saddam really any different

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-15 Thread Harmon Seaver
On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 11:31:23AM -0500, Ken Hirsch wrote: Harmon Seaver wrote: I don't see that Saddam is any less moral than Dubbya and Asscruft. What can you possibly mean by saying this? You lose all credibility for real criticism when you utter such inanities. It's like

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-15 Thread Steve Schear
[A edited copy of a piece I published Oct 4th in the International Relations list. steve] I think that most Western nation leadership will eventually support the U.S.' military action against Iraq. However, they may do so not because they necessarily think Bush is right that Saddam's weapons

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-13 Thread Harmon Seaver
Hmm, interesting -- how come the original of this came never came thru lne.com? And I think there's been at least a couple of others lately that I only saw in someone quote -- wasn't 100% sure about them, but I am this one. Gary Jeffers writes: The purpose of the coming Iraq war is

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-13 Thread Tyler Durden
How can anyone claim that the U.S. or Israel or corporations or rich Americans are morally worse than the likes of Hussein? Can't answer that directly, aside from pointing out that theUS is largely responsible for Hussein's rise to power. I could be argued that oil in our hands has created many

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-13 Thread Nomen Nescio
Gary Jeffers writes: The purpose of the coming Iraq war is to steal their oil. After we get Iraq oil, which arab country is next? If U. State can get away with the theft of Iraq, then why not just keep on stealing? The beneficiaries of this war are: 1. United State: 2. Corporations,

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-13 Thread Harmon Seaver
On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 03:10:13AM +0100, Nomen Nescio wrote: Gary Jeffers writes: The purpose of the coming Iraq war is to steal their oil. After we get Iraq oil, which arab country is next? If U. State can get away with the theft of Iraq, then why not just keep on stealing? The

Re: OPPOSE THE WAR! We are going to ruin Iraq to get the oil. Who's ne

2002-11-13 Thread Marshall Clow
[ I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but there might be someone out there who could benefit from this. ] Tyler Durden wrote: Aside from this is the issue of continued American dependence on oil, a dependence that could be greatly reduced if we put our minds to it, but we seem to be so