Re: CDR: Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On 24 Feb 2003, Tom Veil wrote: You're sounding more and more like a LEO troll. If I was a LEO, would I have called for the killing of gun-grabbing LEOs in a recent Usenet post? Oh, the irony... -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: CDR: Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On 24 Feb 2003, Tom Veil wrote: You're sounding more and more like a LEO troll. If I was a LEO, would I have called for the killing of gun-grabbing LEOs in a recent Usenet post? Oh, the irony... -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Harmon Seaver wrote on February 21, 2003 at 20:40:51 -0600: On Fri, Feb 21, 2003 at 11:10:11PM -, Tom Veil wrote: If you would trade Castro for Bush, you're either a totalitarian monster, or simply insane. Bush is obviously both. He's neither. I tend to think he's a well-meaning statist idiot. This of course, doesn't excuse his crimes. If you truly see no difference between the two, I wonder if, upon getting the opportunity to do so, you would vote with a raft and be the first person ever to emigrate from the US to Castro's Cuba. In any case, I've added you to my blacklist. Interesting that you have to speak from behind a remailer. I use remailers so I can state my opinions with complete and total impunity, without fear that my words will be used against me at some point in the future. Not that I'm even remotely opposed to remailers, I love them and use them all the time, but I also know that when someone uses one for converstations such as this, it's because of pure cowardice. That's your opinion. I'm sure many on this list see it as prudence. Why don't you come out in the open so we can killfile you? If you can't killfile me, you're incompetent. I always use the same nym. You're sounding more and more like a LEO troll. If I was a LEO, would I have called for the killing of gun-grabbing LEOs in a recent Usenet post?
RE: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, James A. Donald wrote: Highly capitalist nations do not murder millions. That's because they make better slaves than fertilizer. The real trick is to make the slaves think they have a great deal, then the controllers get more power and less trouble. Unfortunately, this requires some intelligence in the controllers, which is rare. Maintaining capitalism is harder than it looks. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Harmon Seaver wrote on February 20, 2003 at 12:55:08 -0600: On Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 12:13:45PM -, Tom Veil wrote: Harmon Seaver wrote on February 19, 2003 at 19:20:19 -0600: On Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 11:19:11PM +0100, Anonymous wrote: After scanning hyperpoem.net, we've decided to blacklist you for your far left-wing, socialist views, the quote from Ayn Rand notwithstanding. -- Tom Veil What the fuck are you talking about? Neither you nor anyone else has the authority to ban anyone here, shitforbrains. Actually the site looks pretty good, lots of anti-war, anti-dubbyascum stuff -- right on! Idiot. I didn't mention a damn thing about banning anybody from the list. blacklist, ban, baaa baaa baaa -- what's the diff? I don't have the authority to ban anybody from the list. I do have authority in who I hire, and in my recommendations to others. I did mention using the good ol' 1950's style blacklists used by employers to keep pinkos and commies off their payrolls. You sound exactly like one of the morons from the fifties. No, being anti-war doesn't get you blacklisted. Bullshit like comments against corporate globalization and prominently linking to socialist Ten-Point Justice Agendas and sites like zmag.org and commiedreams.org gets you blacklisted, as it indicates that one is of the so-called progressive, leftist commie totalitarian persuasion. And you are obviously a political retard. Communism is dead, the enemy now is fascism. Do you know the difference? There isn't much of a difference, actually. In both cases, all property is subservient to the state. Can we say corporate welfare state??? I already told you that I'm staunchly against any and all forms of corporate welfare, as are all true capitalists. I also told you that expenditures for traditional socialist welfare programs currently dwarf all expenditures for corporate welfare. The mega-corps *are* the problem today, it's they who put and keep the fascists in power. The mega-corps are not the problem, the mega-state is the problem. Any real power big corporations have is the result of big governments giving it to them. Quite frankly, I'd trade Castro for Bush anytime, at least we wouldn't have all the goddam disgusting christian bullshit all the time. If you would trade Castro for Bush, you're either a totalitarian monster, or simply insane. In any case, I've added you to my blacklist. -- Tom Veil
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Fri, Feb 21, 2003 at 11:10:11PM -, Tom Veil wrote: If you would trade Castro for Bush, you're either a totalitarian monster, or simply insane. Bush is obviously both. In any case, I've added you to my blacklist. Interesting that you have to speak from behind a remailer. Not that I'm even remotely opposed to remailers, I love them and use them all the time, but I also know that when someone uses one for converstations such as this, it's because of pure cowardice. Why don't you come out in the open so we can killfile you? You're sounding more and more like a LEO troll. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Fri, Feb 21, 2003 at 11:10:11PM -, Tom Veil wrote: If you would trade Castro for Bush, you're either a totalitarian monster, or simply insane. Bush is obviously both. In any case, I've added you to my blacklist. Interesting that you have to speak from behind a remailer. Not that I'm even remotely opposed to remailers, I love them and use them all the time, but I also know that when someone uses one for converstations such as this, it's because of pure cowardice. Why don't you come out in the open so we can killfile you? You're sounding more and more like a LEO troll. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
RE: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, James A. Donald wrote: Highly capitalist nations do not murder millions. That's because they make better slaves than fertilizer. The real trick is to make the slaves think they have a great deal, then the controllers get more power and less trouble. Unfortunately, this requires some intelligence in the controllers, which is rare. Maintaining capitalism is harder than it looks. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Tyler Durden wrote on February 17, 2003 at 20:53:14 -0500: Tim Veil wrote... Because the money that is given to them through these unconstitutional federal gravy-train programs was stolen from me, and millions of other taxpayers at gunpoint. Again, I'm not sure why this results in rancor towards those receiving such funds. What part of my above paragraph did you not understand? It's not like black folks are really running this show. Who runs the show is not at issue here. What _is_ at issue is that the money received by these welfare-suckers is money that was taken from _me_. (snipped) Want one piece of a solution? Excellent, no-bullshit schools. You're not going to get this with government schools. Better that schools compete for students in the marketplace. (snipped) -- Tim Veil Fucking with quoted text is _not_ cool. -- Tom Veil
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Harmon Seaver wrote on February 20, 2003 at 12:55:08 -0600: On Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 12:13:45PM -, Tom Veil wrote: Harmon Seaver wrote on February 19, 2003 at 19:20:19 -0600: On Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 11:19:11PM +0100, Anonymous wrote: After scanning hyperpoem.net, we've decided to blacklist you for your far left-wing, socialist views, the quote from Ayn Rand notwithstanding. -- Tom Veil What the fuck are you talking about? Neither you nor anyone else has the authority to ban anyone here, shitforbrains. Actually the site looks pretty good, lots of anti-war, anti-dubbyascum stuff -- right on! Idiot. I didn't mention a damn thing about banning anybody from the list. blacklist, ban, baaa baaa baaa -- what's the diff? I don't have the authority to ban anybody from the list. I do have authority in who I hire, and in my recommendations to others. I did mention using the good ol' 1950's style blacklists used by employers to keep pinkos and commies off their payrolls. You sound exactly like one of the morons from the fifties. No, being anti-war doesn't get you blacklisted. Bullshit like comments against corporate globalization and prominently linking to socialist Ten-Point Justice Agendas and sites like zmag.org and commiedreams.org gets you blacklisted, as it indicates that one is of the so-called progressive, leftist commie totalitarian persuasion. And you are obviously a political retard. Communism is dead, the enemy now is fascism. Do you know the difference? There isn't much of a difference, actually. In both cases, all property is subservient to the state. Can we say corporate welfare state??? I already told you that I'm staunchly against any and all forms of corporate welfare, as are all true capitalists. I also told you that expenditures for traditional socialist welfare programs currently dwarf all expenditures for corporate welfare. The mega-corps *are* the problem today, it's they who put and keep the fascists in power. The mega-corps are not the problem, the mega-state is the problem. Any real power big corporations have is the result of big governments giving it to them. Quite frankly, I'd trade Castro for Bush anytime, at least we wouldn't have all the goddam disgusting christian bullshit all the time. If you would trade Castro for Bush, you're either a totalitarian monster, or simply insane. In any case, I've added you to my blacklist. -- Tom Veil
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 12:13:45PM -, Tom Veil wrote: Harmon Seaver wrote on February 19, 2003 at 19:20:19 -0600: On Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 11:19:11PM +0100, Anonymous wrote: After scanning hyperpoem.net, we've decided to blacklist you for your far left-wing, socialist views, the quote from Ayn Rand notwithstanding. -- Tom Veil What the fuck are you talking about? Neither you nor anyone else has the authority to ban anyone here, shitforbrains. Actually the site looks pretty good, lots of anti-war, anti-dubbyascum stuff -- right on! Idiot. I didn't mention a damn thing about banning anybody from the list. blacklist, ban, baaa baaa baaa -- what's the diff? I did mention using the good ol' 1950's style blacklists used by employers to keep pinkos and commies off their payrolls. You sound exactly like one of the morons from the fifties. No, being anti-war doesn't get you blacklisted. Bullshit like comments against corporate globalization and prominently linking to socialist Ten-Point Justice Agendas and sites like zmag.org and commiedreams.org gets you blacklisted, as it indicates that one is of the so-called progressive, leftist commie totalitarian persuasion. And you are obviously a political retard. Communism is dead, the enemy now is fascism. Do you know the difference? Can we say corporate welfare state??? The mega-corps *are* the problem today, it's they who put and keep the fascists in power. Quite frankly, I'd trade Castro for Bush anytime, at least we wouldn't have all the goddam disgusting christian bullshit all the time. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Harmon Seaver wrote on February 19, 2003 at 19:20:19 -0600: On Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 11:19:11PM +0100, Anonymous wrote: After scanning hyperpoem.net, we've decided to blacklist you for your far left-wing, socialist views, the quote from Ayn Rand notwithstanding. -- Tom Veil What the fuck are you talking about? Neither you nor anyone else has the authority to ban anyone here, shitforbrains. Actually the site looks pretty good, lots of anti-war, anti-dubbyascum stuff -- right on! Idiot. I didn't mention a damn thing about banning anybody from the list. I did mention using the good ol' 1950's style blacklists used by employers to keep pinkos and commies off their payrolls. No, being anti-war doesn't get you blacklisted. Bullshit like comments against corporate globalization and prominently linking to socialist Ten-Point Justice Agendas and sites like zmag.org and commiedreams.org gets you blacklisted, as it indicates that one is of the so-called progressive, leftist commie totalitarian persuasion. -- Tom Veil
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Any idea of why the fucker started up with the punching? As I remember, Schear described himself as 5'2 at the time. Those that feel powerless normally look for someone to have power over. -TD From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tom Veil) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities Date: 20 Feb 2003 02:45:17 - Steve Schear wrote on February 19, 2003 at 12:23: (snipped] As was the regimen then, the class would line up before and after activities to check attendance, then we would shower. To help the instructor the lineup order was fixed. It so happened that the student behind me was one of those being bussed in. I had not taken much notice of him until the day he decided that my back looked to be good target for his fist. His method was to punch me about every 5 seconds like clock work. Any idea of why the fucker started up with the punching? It started at the first line up and continued to just before showers. (I know some of my fellow students saw him hitting me but they pretended not to and said anything.) His locker was almost opposite of mine and as the class prepared to shower he continued his ritualistic abuse. I waited until most of the others were gone and just as he was about to land a blow I quickly turned, blocked his punch, grabbed and twisted his arm to lock it and drew him into a side kick to his throat. His trachea partly collapsed and he fell to the floor choking. I calmly continued undressing and went to the shower. When I came back some students we standing around him and an instructor was giving him mouth to mouth. I heard he was taken to the hospital. No one asked me about him, I never saw him again and none of the students said a word. Excellent! A shame he wasn't killed, as he deserved to be. Several days later three of his friends tried to jump me between classes in a relatively isolated area of the campus, one had a knife I gave them a very painful lesson with my nanchuk. I never saw them again either, nor was I ever questioned about them by school administrators. Afterward, I took to walking to classes with friends, mostly other martial arts students, but no further incidents occurred. Its a good thing this happened back then. Today, I would have been shot Unless you shot the fucking African-American attackers dead first. This is why I think bullied kids should carry handguns. Preferably easily concealed ones, the smallest one with the highest caliber. Bust a cap in their fucking brains. and/or arrested. Any cop who would arrest you for a clear-cut case of self-defense would need to be shot dead. -- Tom Veil _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
At 10:50 AM 2/20/2003 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: Any idea of why the fucker started up with the punching? I did turn around in line-up and ask the student why he was punching me and to stop. He simply gave me a smug grin and continued. As I remember, Schear described himself as 5'2 at the time. Those that feel powerless normally look for someone to have power over. Especially when they are noticeably larger then you, which this student was (half a head taller and at least 20 pounds heavier). steve
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 12:13:45PM -, Tom Veil wrote: Harmon Seaver wrote on February 19, 2003 at 19:20:19 -0600: On Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 11:19:11PM +0100, Anonymous wrote: After scanning hyperpoem.net, we've decided to blacklist you for your far left-wing, socialist views, the quote from Ayn Rand notwithstanding. -- Tom Veil What the fuck are you talking about? Neither you nor anyone else has the authority to ban anyone here, shitforbrains. Actually the site looks pretty good, lots of anti-war, anti-dubbyascum stuff -- right on! Idiot. I didn't mention a damn thing about banning anybody from the list. blacklist, ban, baaa baaa baaa -- what's the diff? I did mention using the good ol' 1950's style blacklists used by employers to keep pinkos and commies off their payrolls. You sound exactly like one of the morons from the fifties. No, being anti-war doesn't get you blacklisted. Bullshit like comments against corporate globalization and prominently linking to socialist Ten-Point Justice Agendas and sites like zmag.org and commiedreams.org gets you blacklisted, as it indicates that one is of the so-called progressive, leftist commie totalitarian persuasion. And you are obviously a political retard. Communism is dead, the enemy now is fascism. Do you know the difference? Can we say corporate welfare state??? The mega-corps *are* the problem today, it's they who put and keep the fascists in power. Quite frankly, I'd trade Castro for Bush anytime, at least we wouldn't have all the goddam disgusting christian bullshit all the time. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
After scanning hyperpoem.net, we've decided to blacklist you for your far left-wing, socialist views, the quote from Ayn Rand notwithstanding. -- Tom Veil Actually, a turning point in my thinking came a few years ago while watching Fidel Castro talk on CNN from Riverside church. Oddly, I found that I agreed with 99% of what the guy said. (Of course, from what I've been able to filter out from the anti-Cuba propaganda, I don't think I'd like Castro's answers to his issues a hellava lot, but that's besides the point.) Me? I'm highly suspicious of anyone who believes that one system of thought answers all of the questions and problems: Right, Left, Libertarian...anyone's fulla shit if he he accepted a Program lock, stock, and barrel. From: Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Anonymous [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:20:19 -0600 On Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 11:19:11PM +0100, Anonymous wrote: After scanning hyperpoem.net, we've decided to blacklist you for your far left-wing, socialist views, the quote from Ayn Rand notwithstanding. -- Tom Veil What the fuck are you talking about? Neither you nor anyone else has the authority to ban anyone here, shitforbrains. Actually the site looks pretty good, lots of anti-war, anti-dubbyascum stuff -- right on! -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: CDR: Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Just out of curiosity, which of the following would you classify as racist: Group(s) pushing Black Pride Group(s) pushing Latino Pride Group(s) pushing White Pride Group(s) pushing to Buy Black Group(s) pushing to Buy White I submit that all of the above are blatantly, obviously, racist, although I suspect I'll get a different evaluation from you... -- Yours J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Cardenas wrote: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:01:38 -0800 From: Cardenas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: CDR: Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities You're a fucking racist. If you can't understand why black and latino pride is necessary after centuries of murderous oppression, the pick up a book. Things may have been more violent in the 70's, but thats great. Some people think that revolutions don't happen by sitting behind a keyboard. MEChA is not a gang, they're an important part of helping lots of young people to be concious of their own heritage. And I respect the people who are willing to dedicate their lives to something with meaning a lot more than making more microchips for the rich. You're right about evolution though, all those women's studies and black studies programs are helping evolution along, so that racists like you can have their eyes opened more often. This is by far the most disgusting thing I've read on this list to date, and is a huge demonstration of your lilliputian mindedness. On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 11:03:25AM -0800, Tim May wrote: On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 10:28 AM, Ken Brown wrote: Kevin S. Van Horn wrote: Tyler Durden wrote: Black leadership is one potential issue here, but the other ethnic groups that do so well in the US have no identifiable leaders here. Which is precisely why those ethnic groups do so well, while U.S. blacks do not. The value of leaders is vastly overrated in American society. Same over here in London. I'm a white, English, middle-class sort of bloke. Who are my community leaders? It goes beyond just the black leaders thing--it's also about black pride. My eye-opening experience was my arrival in college (as Brits would say, at university) in 1970. UCSB, in beautiful Santa Barbara. There I found students from diverse backgrounds and cultures, mixing in the classrooms, the dorms, and the eating halls. Except for the negroes, who all sat together at one set of tables in whichever eating hall they were in. There may have been a few stragglers scattered amongst the other tables, but basically it was de facto, self-selected segregation. Much was spouted about black pride, and the negroes took to wearing huge afros with pimp-combs in their hair. They openly insulted whitey. Essentially, they aligned themselves into a gang. Many of them switched dorm rooms around, resulting in de facto creation of segregated dorm halls. White students avoided these ghettoes, for good reason. (I interviewed in 1971 for a R.A. (resident assistant) position, to help with living costs, and my negro interviewer only asked my questions about what CORE was, what SNCC was, etc. My answers were PC enough, and I was turned down. More and more of the R.A.s were negroes by 1973.) Special departments were created to handle the surge in negro students: Black Studies was the main one, with Sociology expanded to teach classes about the oppression and the marginalization of the black race, blah blah. Swahili was the language they took to meet the minimal foreign language requirements. There were no negroes in my math or physics classes. They were active, however, in student government. One of them, a woman named Judy McClellan, used to hop up on the conference tables in the student government meetings and walk up and down, ranting and screaming at the non-negro, non-Hispanic students. She once, according to reporters for the student newspaper who were in the meeting, had her negro aides stand at the doors so she could tell the council that nobody is leaving until you pass this (something about funding for her programs, etc.). The next year the President of the student council, one Robert Norris, flashed a revolver at white students who were opposing one of his resolutions. When this was reported in the campus newspaper, bails of the newspapers were thrown into the lagoon by negroes. I wrote all of this up in a letter which I sent in June of 1973 to the Regents of the University of California. I included descriptions of many of the atrocities, including the shakedown of funds from white students to go to bogus inner city youth programs (including purchase of a $2500 rare comic book about negroes, a comic book which nobody could later produce to investigators). I described the La Raza Libre Hispanic gang on
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Steve Schear wrote on February 19, 2003 at 12:23: (snipped] As was the regimen then, the class would line up before and after activities to check attendance, then we would shower. To help the instructor the lineup order was fixed. It so happened that the student behind me was one of those being bussed in. I had not taken much notice of him until the day he decided that my back looked to be good target for his fist. His method was to punch me about every 5 seconds like clock work. Any idea of why the fucker started up with the punching? It started at the first line up and continued to just before showers. (I know some of my fellow students saw him hitting me but they pretended not to and said anything.) His locker was almost opposite of mine and as the class prepared to shower he continued his ritualistic abuse. I waited until most of the others were gone and just as he was about to land a blow I quickly turned, blocked his punch, grabbed and twisted his arm to lock it and drew him into a side kick to his throat. His trachea partly collapsed and he fell to the floor choking. I calmly continued undressing and went to the shower. When I came back some students we standing around him and an instructor was giving him mouth to mouth. I heard he was taken to the hospital. No one asked me about him, I never saw him again and none of the students said a word. Excellent! A shame he wasn't killed, as he deserved to be. Several days later three of his friends tried to jump me between classes in a relatively isolated area of the campus, one had a knife I gave them a very painful lesson with my nanchuk. I never saw them again either, nor was I ever questioned about them by school administrators. Afterward, I took to walking to classes with friends, mostly other martial arts students, but no further incidents occurred. Its a good thing this happened back then. Today, I would have been shot Unless you shot the fucking African-American attackers dead first. This is why I think bullied kids should carry handguns. Preferably easily concealed ones, the smallest one with the highest caliber. Bust a cap in their fucking brains. and/or arrested. Any cop who would arrest you for a clear-cut case of self-defense would need to be shot dead. -- Tom Veil
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
At 06:43 PM 2/18/2003 -0600, Kevin S. Van Horn wrote: Tim May wrote: It goes beyond just the black leaders thing--it's also about black pride. My eye-opening experience was my arrival in college (as Brits would say, at university) in 1970. Well, this post explains a lot about Tim's attitude. Myself, I never ran into this kind of crap in college. I attended college 10 years later, in a conservative state (Utah). The few blacks I've encountered personally have mostly seemed to be decent people. I can support some of what Tim says. Although I was born in New York and absorbed some of the street ethics there, I grew up mostly in Los Angeles. During the late '60s, in an effort to encourage voluntary integration, the city (with state and fed help) designated magnet schools which featured enriched curriculum. My school, Hamilton High, was selected as the math center (we also became, briefly, the science center due to delay in the completion of Crenshaw High) and got a brand new IBM 1130 and a several college professors for the AP math, chemistry and physics classes. A few of us were sent to IBM's customer education classes to get up quickly up to speed (some of the regular teachers also attended but they did poorly). The advanced placement level math and science classes enabled me to ace the SAT and ACT test and entrance exams and get into CalTech (something I doubt I would otherwise been able to do). Kids from all over LA were bussed to Hamilton. Most were good students, and I made a few new friends, not so some of the African Americans. Hami had always been a safe place, but almost immediately after the arrival of the busses there were stories of shakedowns in the rest rooms and on the lunch court. (like Tim, the faculty knew there were some bad apples but took no steps to identify and expel them from the program.) I had been a serious student of martial arts (Shodokan, Aikido and Hapkido) since middle school and, though I was only about 5' 2, I was well along to my black belt by the time I entered high school (this was when getting a black belt in the U.S. was still roughly equivalent to getting one in Asia). When I heard of the trouble I took to carrying concealed martial arts weapon, usually a nanchuk or tonfa (now often used by law enforcement), on my back. My first incident happened in the athletics class. As was the regimen then, the class would line up before and after activities to check attendance, then we would shower. To help the instructor the lineup order was fixed. It so happened that the student behind me was one of those being bussed in. I had not taken much notice of him until the day he decided that my back looked to be good target for his fist. His method was to punch me about every 5 seconds like clock work. It started at the first line up and continued to just before showers. (I know some of my fellow students saw him hitting me but they pretended not to and said anything.) His locker was almost opposite of mine and as the class prepared to shower he continued his ritualistic abuse. I waited until most of the others were gone and just as he was about to land a blow I quickly turned, blocked his punch, grabbed and twisted his arm to lock it and drew him into a side kick to his throat. His trachea partly collapsed and he fell to the floor choking. I calmly continued undressing and went to the shower. When I came back some students we standing around him and an instructor was giving him mouth to mouth. I heard he was taken to the hospital. No one asked me about him, I never saw him again and none of the students said a word. Several days later three of his friends tried to jump me between classes in a relatively isolated area of the campus, one had a knife I gave them a very painful lesson with my nanchuk. I never saw them again either, nor was I ever questioned about them by school administrators. Afterward, I took to walking to classes with friends, mostly other martial arts students, but no further incidents occurred. Its a good thing this happened back then. Today, I would have been shot and/or arrested. steve
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
At 03:00 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: Steve Schear and Tim May mention some interesting incidents. In Steve Schear's case, there's a mysterious absence of response: No one asked me about him, I never saw him again and none of the students said a word. Several days later three of his friends tried to jump me I never saw them again either, nor was I ever questioned about them by school administrators. Well, obviously my following points will probably be met with scepticism (to say the least), but here goes. If those same incidents had occurred in an all-white environment, most of the time there'd be hell to pay. People would freak out, and students expelled. In THESE cases, however, there's the tolerance and even expectation of bad behavior on the part of black students. While teaching in Brooklyn, I saw the same thing again and again: You can't change them, that's the way they are. Even here, officials fail to respond for fear of political reprisals, while negative behavior is expected. Of course, expectations don't FORCE a group to meet those expectations. So I'm not saying people have no responsibility for their actions. But I AM pointing out that the non-response (of which the NYC High Schools are merely a giant example) is tainted with racism, and this racism gets magnified via the projecting lens (perhaps a camera lumina?) of institutions. So it basically takes whatever's already messed up and excacerbates the problem. Not too sure. I noticed a similar lack of involvement interest when school yard fights broke out between pink students. Once word spread that some bussed in trouble makers had been dealt with the level of problems appeared to abate (at least until I graduated). It was reckless for the teachers and administrators to take no obvious actions and I probably should have been expelled. I was careful not to mention these incidents to my friends or family until I graduated. BTW, there were quite a few local brown/black students who attended Hami. I saw few if any hanging out with those bussed in. It seemed they also wished not to associate with trouble makers. steve
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
NOTICE: This message may not have been sent by the Sender Name above. Always use cryptographic digital signatures to verify the identity of the sender of any usenet post or e-mail. Cardenas wrote on February 18, 2003 at 15:02: You're a fucking racist. I didn't see anything in his post that was indicative of an inherent belief in the superiority of any particular race. If you can't understand why black and latino pride is necessary after centuries of murderous oppression, the pick up a book. Things may have been more violent in the 70's, but thats great. Some people think that revolutions don't happen by sitting behind a keyboard. MEChA is not a gang, they're an important part of helping lots of young people to be concious of their own heritage. Apparently, helping lots of young people to be concious (sic) of their own heritage includes shakedowns, threats and theft: http://www.americanpatrol.org/MECHA/MEChAindex.html It appears that this gang is also bent on re-conquering the South- western United States. And I respect the people who are willing to dedicate their lives to something with meaning a lot more than making more microchips for the rich. Even the so-called poor minorities use and benefit from microchips a hell of a lot more than they benefit from all these consciousness of heritage idiots. I'd say that making microchips, or collecting garbage for that matter, has much more meaning than raising consciousness of ethnic heritage and other such bullshit. You're right about evolution though, all those women's studies and black studies programs are helping evolution along, so that racists like you can have their eyes opened more often. Those programs will eventually be relegated to the ash heaps of history. [snipped] -- michael cardenas | lead software engineer, lindows.com hyperpoem.net | GNU/Linux software developer people.debian.org/~mbc | encrypted email preferred After scanning hyperpoem.net, we've decided to blacklist you for your far left-wing, socialist views, the quote from Ayn Rand notwithstanding. -- Tom Veil
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
You're a fucking racist. If you can't understand why black and latino pride is necessary after centuries of murderous oppression, the pick up a book. Things may have been more violent in the 70's, but thats great. Some people think that revolutions don't happen by sitting behind a keyboard. MEChA is not a gang, they're an important part of helping lots of young people to be concious of their own heritage. And I respect the people who are willing to dedicate their lives to something with meaning a lot more than making more microchips for the rich. You're right about evolution though, all those women's studies and black studies programs are helping evolution along, so that racists like you can have their eyes opened more often. This is by far the most disgusting thing I've read on this list to date, and is a huge demonstration of your lilliputian mindedness. On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 11:03:25AM -0800, Tim May wrote: On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 10:28 AM, Ken Brown wrote: Kevin S. Van Horn wrote: Tyler Durden wrote: Black leadership is one potential issue here, but the other ethnic groups that do so well in the US have no identifiable leaders here. Which is precisely why those ethnic groups do so well, while U.S. blacks do not. The value of leaders is vastly overrated in American society. Same over here in London. I'm a white, English, middle-class sort of bloke. Who are my community leaders? It goes beyond just the black leaders thing--it's also about black pride. My eye-opening experience was my arrival in college (as Brits would say, at university) in 1970. UCSB, in beautiful Santa Barbara. There I found students from diverse backgrounds and cultures, mixing in the classrooms, the dorms, and the eating halls. Except for the negroes, who all sat together at one set of tables in whichever eating hall they were in. There may have been a few stragglers scattered amongst the other tables, but basically it was de facto, self-selected segregation. Much was spouted about black pride, and the negroes took to wearing huge afros with pimp-combs in their hair. They openly insulted whitey. Essentially, they aligned themselves into a gang. Many of them switched dorm rooms around, resulting in de facto creation of segregated dorm halls. White students avoided these ghettoes, for good reason. (I interviewed in 1971 for a R.A. (resident assistant) position, to help with living costs, and my negro interviewer only asked my questions about what CORE was, what SNCC was, etc. My answers were PC enough, and I was turned down. More and more of the R.A.s were negroes by 1973.) Special departments were created to handle the surge in negro students: Black Studies was the main one, with Sociology expanded to teach classes about the oppression and the marginalization of the black race, blah blah. Swahili was the language they took to meet the minimal foreign language requirements. There were no negroes in my math or physics classes. They were active, however, in student government. One of them, a woman named Judy McClellan, used to hop up on the conference tables in the student government meetings and walk up and down, ranting and screaming at the non-negro, non-Hispanic students. She once, according to reporters for the student newspaper who were in the meeting, had her negro aides stand at the doors so she could tell the council that nobody is leaving until you pass this (something about funding for her programs, etc.). The next year the President of the student council, one Robert Norris, flashed a revolver at white students who were opposing one of his resolutions. When this was reported in the campus newspaper, bails of the newspapers were thrown into the lagoon by negroes. I wrote all of this up in a letter which I sent in June of 1973 to the Regents of the University of California. I included descriptions of many of the atrocities, including the shakedown of funds from white students to go to bogus inner city youth programs (including purchase of a $2500 rare comic book about negroes, a comic book which nobody could later produce to investigators). I described the La Raza Libre Hispanic gang on campus, the MeCHA rival gang, the Black Pride contingent, the Black Students Union, etc. The Regents replied that what I had reported was known to them, but that we live in troubled times, blah blah. I did get a signed letter back from Governor Reagan's top assistant saying they were adding my report to the list of reported problems. The campus newspaper ran my letter in full, and it triggered a minor firestorm. I became sort of the right wing mascot for a few months. I got a few death threats, too, and met with the Chancellor to discuss the issues I'd raised. He agreed with all of my points, clucked about the black and Mexican gangs, but said, echoing the Regents, that we live in troubled times. It was clear to me at the time that
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 11:03 AM, Tim May wrote: Many of them switched dorm rooms around, resulting in de facto creation of segregated dorm halls. White students avoided these ghettoes, for good reason. (I interviewed in 1971 for a R.A. (resident assistant) position, to help with living costs, and my negro interviewer only asked my questions about what CORE was, what SNCC was, etc. My answers were PC enough, and I was turned down. More and more of the R.A.s were negroes by 1973.) were not PC enough, I meant to type. (My most common typing error is hearing the not in my head but not typing it.) --Tim
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Kevin S. Van Horn wrote: Tyler Durden wrote: Black leadership is one potential issue here, but the other ethnic groups that do so well in the US have no identifiable leaders here. Which is precisely why those ethnic groups do so well, while U.S. blacks do not. The value of leaders is vastly overrated in American society. Same over here in London. I'm a white, English, middle-class sort of bloke. Who are my community leaders? The parish priest? The borough councillors? The landlord of the pub? The member of parliament? The head teacher of the local school? All of whom, apart from the publican, I helped to appoint, and none of whom I feel in the slightest way deferential to or look up to for leadership whatever that is. Who are my community leaders? It's just a silly question. No-one would ask it. Ken Brown
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Tim May wrote: It goes beyond just the black leaders thing--it's also about black pride. My eye-opening experience was my arrival in college (as Brits would say, at university) in 1970. Well, this post explains a lot about Tim's attitude. Myself, I never ran into this kind of crap in college. I attended college 10 years later, in a conservative state (Utah). The few blacks I've encountered personally have mostly seemed to be decent people.
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Tim May wrote: Swahili was the language they took to meet the minimal foreign language requirements. This sounds like the one worthwhile course in the bunch. One may learn a foreign language in order to be able to read important literary, historical, philosophical, or scientific works in other languages, in which case Latin, Greek, German, and French are good languages; in order to be able to communicate well with a wider group of people, in which case Spanish is a good language for Americans to learn; or just to broaden one's horizons, in which case I am told that Swahili is a good choice, as it is structurally so different from Indo-European languages.
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 04:43 PM, Kevin S. Van Horn wrote: Tim May wrote: It goes beyond just the black leaders thing--it's also about black pride. My eye-opening experience was my arrival in college (as Brits would say, at university) in 1970. Well, this post explains a lot about Tim's attitude. Myself, I never ran into this kind of crap in college. I attended college 10 years later, in a conservative state (Utah). The few blacks I've encountered personally have mostly seemed to be decent people. I know a few people who went to BYU and tell me that most of the negroes attending BYU were from African countries, part of the Mormon recruiting process (which is very successful, of course). I assume some number of other negroes at BYU are American, just as there are some negroes at Bob Jones University. These are self-selected folks, of course. I also knew some negroes in college who were from African countries, including a Sudanese guy in my relativity class. They behaved quite normally, modulo their foreign background. My attitude has also been shaped by watching this situation for the past 40 years. I used to even use the term black for negroes, before they started changing the name every few years (Afro-American, African-American, person of color) and calling anyone who used the replaced name a racist. Also, I watched what happened when I proposed a White Students Union in college. It seems negroes are give carte blanche, so to speak, to spew about honkies and hymies and whiteys and to declare everyone else racist. In fact, their most-revered ideologists have been explaining how negroes cannot be racist, no matter their language or discrimination, because racism is about the oppression and marginalization of peoples of color by the dominant whitemale paradigm. Or whatever. In the past fifteen years I have come to realize that crypto anarchy will probably change all this, as it makes for a system where only a competent elite does well. Probably fifty million marginal Americans, including nearly all of the so-called peoples of color, will, one hopes, fade away. Race warfare may be coming, as the inner city mutants have their meal tickets cancelled. This is why so many white people are buying so many guns. --Tim May
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Tim May wrote... It was clear to me at the time that the focus on black pride was destructive of _real_ pride. Against my better judgement, I find myself agreeing with this statement on one level. However, it should be noted that the Black Pride movement of the late 60s and early 70s was a necessary reaction to years and years of negative messages sent towards the notion of being African American. Black Pride was probably the most valuable for nothing else than being a political movement that asserted that asserting such a thing was possible or desirable. However, this notion of Black Pride eventually on some levels reinforced an almost ghettoization of black culture, both by blacks as well as Whites. As a simple example, we still use the term African Americans to refer to 'black' folks (which seems to mean any person with even a single gene inherited from the African continent), even though the relationship between black folks and Africa is probably not any closer than black folks and Europe. (Likewise, White folks partake daily of the fruits of African culture in our lands, the most obvious example being music.) So we still maintain that there's American culture, and then there's African American culture, a dichotomy that is reflected in the equally racist notions of black and white people. The sad thing is that this marginalization/ghettoization extends even to the absolute highest arts. A couple of years ago I caught Wayne SHorter and Herbie Hancock, and their performance was as abstract, complex, and multi-hued as anything this overly cutlured NYC boy has experienced. And I don't remember seeing a single black face in the audience. So now Jazz is white, despite its profoundly African roots, while many (of course not all) black folks are willing to settle for either overproduced muzaky trash, or mindless rap (Not that all rap is mindless by the way, but less and less of it is of the caliber of Public Enemy or Grandmaster Flash.) I would presume that one reason for this has to do with the fact that real Jazz is no longer perceived by most black folks as being black, so it is largely ignored. However, that this pack mentality for many black folks exists should be no suprise, as there's strength in numbers and as my father says, Where there are two or more Americans gathered have ye a lynch mob. So its dangerous in this country to be marginalized, for to be marginalized means to be largely disempowered. It's something of a mistake, tis true, but its probably the universal human reaction to years and years of oppression and hate. I think of it as evolution in action. Of course, sometimes evolution needs to be helped along a bit. Uh, Ok whatever. I'd point out that the genetic diversity of African Americans is such that they are probably genetically superior to most whites. Don't think that being fantastic at sports is some indication that black folks are merely big, dumb graceful animals. If those same kids had the same drive to excel in mathematics or science, they'd do extremely well. In the 80s I worked in one of the toughest High Schools in the country, in Brooklyn. One of my students was brutally murdered, and throughout a semester several would be out sick due to being atacked with knives. (This was in addition to fireworks being set off regularly in the halls, gang fights, rampant vandalism and recreational fires and so on.) And yet it was quite clear to me that the intelligence level of these students was by no means much less than that of whites at good high schools (I attended a famous Science and math HS in NYC.). The sad thing was that these kids really had never been exposed to the why of education, and asked me regularly about the basic math I was teaching them: Why do we have to learn this? We'll never use this in real life. More than this, they couldn't even really conceive of a life without the ubiquitous violence and filth around them. There was no real reason to do well or get a good job. In the end, it not only felt futile to work there, it was depressing. Was this black people's fault? Nah. It's all of our fault. -TD _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Tim May wrote: In the past fifteen years I have come to realize that crypto anarchy will probably change all this, as it makes for a system where only a competent elite does well. Probably fifty million marginal Americans, including nearly all of the so-called peoples of color, will, one hopes, fade away. I guess I'm more optimistic about human nature than you, Tim. If and when the day of reckoning comes, this is what I expect: 1. Great wailing and gnashing of teeth. 2. Probably a good deal of violence by some who have come to view parasitism as their right. 3. But once it becomes clear that the parasitic lifestyle is no longer viable, most will do what they have to do to survive: stop whining, stop looking for handouts, and learn to stand on their own two feet and make their own fortune.
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 08:04:14PM -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote: Yeah, no kidding. Lot's of kids brought guns to school when I was in highschool. Kids that lived in the country would hunt before school, catch the schoolbus, with their rifle or shotgun in a case, of course, and put it in their locker while in class, take it out, take the bus home and hunt after school. Why not? And of course they were usually carrying a fair amount of ammo as well. And when I was in college at the UW-Madison, I regularly took my .22 target pistol down to the university indoor range and practiced. I'm not sure that college students are even allowed to have guns in the dorm now. I attend UW Madison now, although I don't live in the dorms. Not even BB guns are allowed. http://www.housing.wisc.edu/reshallshandbook/expectations.html#weapons John Bethencourt
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Tyler Durden wrote: Was this black people's fault? Nah. It's all of our fault. Bullshit. I had nothing to do with it. Collective guilt only dilutes responsibility and ensures that pathological behavior continues. Let me suggest some specific groups of people who are responsible: - The education establishment. Their purpose from day one has been, not education, but the production of pliable citizen-serfs. Read John Taylor Gatto's _The Underground History of American Education_ for details. (Gatto taught in the New York school system for decades, and received New York City and New York State teacher of the year awards.) - The welfare-state bureaucrats who labored so long and hard to erase the stigma associated with living on the dole. As long as it made their own jobs secure and expanded their own little empires, why should they care that their system was eroding the morals, independence, and self-respect of one generation after another? - The victimology pushers and race baiters. These people have worked hard to focus minorities on the actions of other people (which they can't control) and away from their own actions (which they *can* control). They have created a culture where education, deferred gratification, all the traditional means of raising oneself up out of poverty, are reviled and disdained as the white man's way.
Re: CDR: Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Just out of curiosity, which of the following would you classify as racist: Group(s) pushing Black Pride Group(s) pushing Latino Pride Group(s) pushing White Pride Group(s) pushing to Buy Black Group(s) pushing to Buy White I submit that all of the above are blatantly, obviously, racist, although I suspect I'll get a different evaluation from you... -- Yours J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Cardenas wrote: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:01:38 -0800 From: Cardenas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: CDR: Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities You're a fucking racist. If you can't understand why black and latino pride is necessary after centuries of murderous oppression, the pick up a book. Things may have been more violent in the 70's, but thats great. Some people think that revolutions don't happen by sitting behind a keyboard. MEChA is not a gang, they're an important part of helping lots of young people to be concious of their own heritage. And I respect the people who are willing to dedicate their lives to something with meaning a lot more than making more microchips for the rich. You're right about evolution though, all those women's studies and black studies programs are helping evolution along, so that racists like you can have their eyes opened more often. This is by far the most disgusting thing I've read on this list to date, and is a huge demonstration of your lilliputian mindedness. On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 11:03:25AM -0800, Tim May wrote: On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 10:28 AM, Ken Brown wrote: Kevin S. Van Horn wrote: Tyler Durden wrote: Black leadership is one potential issue here, but the other ethnic groups that do so well in the US have no identifiable leaders here. Which is precisely why those ethnic groups do so well, while U.S. blacks do not. The value of leaders is vastly overrated in American society. Same over here in London. I'm a white, English, middle-class sort of bloke. Who are my community leaders? It goes beyond just the black leaders thing--it's also about black pride. My eye-opening experience was my arrival in college (as Brits would say, at university) in 1970. UCSB, in beautiful Santa Barbara. There I found students from diverse backgrounds and cultures, mixing in the classrooms, the dorms, and the eating halls. Except for the negroes, who all sat together at one set of tables in whichever eating hall they were in. There may have been a few stragglers scattered amongst the other tables, but basically it was de facto, self-selected segregation. Much was spouted about black pride, and the negroes took to wearing huge afros with pimp-combs in their hair. They openly insulted whitey. Essentially, they aligned themselves into a gang. Many of them switched dorm rooms around, resulting in de facto creation of segregated dorm halls. White students avoided these ghettoes, for good reason. (I interviewed in 1971 for a R.A. (resident assistant) position, to help with living costs, and my negro interviewer only asked my questions about what CORE was, what SNCC was, etc. My answers were PC enough, and I was turned down. More and more of the R.A.s were negroes by 1973.) Special departments were created to handle the surge in negro students: Black Studies was the main one, with Sociology expanded to teach classes about the oppression and the marginalization of the black race, blah blah. Swahili was the language they took to meet the minimal foreign language requirements. There were no negroes in my math or physics classes. They were active, however, in student government. One of them, a woman named Judy McClellan, used to hop up on the conference tables in the student government meetings and walk up and down, ranting and screaming at the non-negro, non-Hispanic students. She once, according to reporters for the student newspaper who were in the meeting, had her negro aides stand at the doors so she could tell the council that nobody is leaving until you pass this (something about funding for her programs, etc.). The next year the President of the student council, one Robert Norris, flashed a revolver at white students who were opposing one of his resolutions. When this was reported in the campus newspaper, bails of the newspapers were thrown into the lagoon by negroes. I wrote all of this up in a letter which I sent in June of 1973 to the Regents of the University of California. I included descriptions of many of the atrocities, including the shakedown of funds from white students to go to bogus inner city youth programs (including purchase of a $2500 rare comic book about negroes, a comic book which nobody could later produce to investigators). I described the La Raza Libre Hispanic gang on
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
At 06:43 PM 2/18/2003 -0600, Kevin S. Van Horn wrote: Tim May wrote: It goes beyond just the black leaders thing--it's also about black pride. My eye-opening experience was my arrival in college (as Brits would say, at university) in 1970. Well, this post explains a lot about Tim's attitude. Myself, I never ran into this kind of crap in college. I attended college 10 years later, in a conservative state (Utah). The few blacks I've encountered personally have mostly seemed to be decent people. I can support some of what Tim says. Although I was born in New York and absorbed some of the street ethics there, I grew up mostly in Los Angeles. During the late '60s, in an effort to encourage voluntary integration, the city (with state and fed help) designated magnet schools which featured enriched curriculum. My school, Hamilton High, was selected as the math center (we also became, briefly, the science center due to delay in the completion of Crenshaw High) and got a brand new IBM 1130 and a several college professors for the AP math, chemistry and physics classes. A few of us were sent to IBM's customer education classes to get up quickly up to speed (some of the regular teachers also attended but they did poorly). The advanced placement level math and science classes enabled me to ace the SAT and ACT test and entrance exams and get into CalTech (something I doubt I would otherwise been able to do). Kids from all over LA were bussed to Hamilton. Most were good students, and I made a few new friends, not so some of the African Americans. Hami had always been a safe place, but almost immediately after the arrival of the busses there were stories of shakedowns in the rest rooms and on the lunch court. (like Tim, the faculty knew there were some bad apples but took no steps to identify and expel them from the program.) I had been a serious student of martial arts (Shodokan, Aikido and Hapkido) since middle school and, though I was only about 5' 2, I was well along to my black belt by the time I entered high school (this was when getting a black belt in the U.S. was still roughly equivalent to getting one in Asia). When I heard of the trouble I took to carrying concealed martial arts weapon, usually a nanchuk or tonfa (now often used by law enforcement), on my back. My first incident happened in the athletics class. As was the regimen then, the class would line up before and after activities to check attendance, then we would shower. To help the instructor the lineup order was fixed. It so happened that the student behind me was one of those being bussed in. I had not taken much notice of him until the day he decided that my back looked to be good target for his fist. His method was to punch me about every 5 seconds like clock work. It started at the first line up and continued to just before showers. (I know some of my fellow students saw him hitting me but they pretended not to and said anything.) His locker was almost opposite of mine and as the class prepared to shower he continued his ritualistic abuse. I waited until most of the others were gone and just as he was about to land a blow I quickly turned, blocked his punch, grabbed and twisted his arm to lock it and drew him into a side kick to his throat. His trachea partly collapsed and he fell to the floor choking. I calmly continued undressing and went to the shower. When I came back some students we standing around him and an instructor was giving him mouth to mouth. I heard he was taken to the hospital. No one asked me about him, I never saw him again and none of the students said a word. Several days later three of his friends tried to jump me between classes in a relatively isolated area of the campus, one had a knife I gave them a very painful lesson with my nanchuk. I never saw them again either, nor was I ever questioned about them by school administrators. Afterward, I took to walking to classes with friends, mostly other martial arts students, but no further incidents occurred. Its a good thing this happened back then. Today, I would have been shot and/or arrested. steve
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
At 03:00 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: Steve Schear and Tim May mention some interesting incidents. In Steve Schear's case, there's a mysterious absence of response: No one asked me about him, I never saw him again and none of the students said a word. Several days later three of his friends tried to jump me I never saw them again either, nor was I ever questioned about them by school administrators. Well, obviously my following points will probably be met with scepticism (to say the least), but here goes. If those same incidents had occurred in an all-white environment, most of the time there'd be hell to pay. People would freak out, and students expelled. In THESE cases, however, there's the tolerance and even expectation of bad behavior on the part of black students. While teaching in Brooklyn, I saw the same thing again and again: You can't change them, that's the way they are. Even here, officials fail to respond for fear of political reprisals, while negative behavior is expected. Of course, expectations don't FORCE a group to meet those expectations. So I'm not saying people have no responsibility for their actions. But I AM pointing out that the non-response (of which the NYC High Schools are merely a giant example) is tainted with racism, and this racism gets magnified via the projecting lens (perhaps a camera lumina?) of institutions. So it basically takes whatever's already messed up and excacerbates the problem. Not too sure. I noticed a similar lack of involvement interest when school yard fights broke out between pink students. Once word spread that some bussed in trouble makers had been dealt with the level of problems appeared to abate (at least until I graduated). It was reckless for the teachers and administrators to take no obvious actions and I probably should have been expelled. I was careful not to mention these incidents to my friends or family until I graduated. BTW, there were quite a few local brown/black students who attended Hami. I saw few if any hanging out with those bussed in. It seemed they also wished not to associate with trouble makers. steve
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Tuesday 18 February 2003 20:16, Bill wrote: At 5:53 PM -0800 2/17/03, Tyler Durden wrote: Any kid coming to school with a knife or gun gets thrown out, period. Gee, when I was in high school, I was on the high school rifle team. I still have the varsity letter with the crossed rifles on it. Our ammo was paid for by the US military, who wanted recruits who could shoot. I brought my gun to school at the beginning of the season, and took it home at the end. Teenager have the same right to self defense that adults do. Why would any sane kid want to go into one of those war zones unarmed? Why would any sane parent allow them to do so? David Neilson
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Steve Schear wrote on February 19, 2003 at 12:23: (snipped] As was the regimen then, the class would line up before and after activities to check attendance, then we would shower. To help the instructor the lineup order was fixed. It so happened that the student behind me was one of those being bussed in. I had not taken much notice of him until the day he decided that my back looked to be good target for his fist. His method was to punch me about every 5 seconds like clock work. Any idea of why the fucker started up with the punching? It started at the first line up and continued to just before showers. (I know some of my fellow students saw him hitting me but they pretended not to and said anything.) His locker was almost opposite of mine and as the class prepared to shower he continued his ritualistic abuse. I waited until most of the others were gone and just as he was about to land a blow I quickly turned, blocked his punch, grabbed and twisted his arm to lock it and drew him into a side kick to his throat. His trachea partly collapsed and he fell to the floor choking. I calmly continued undressing and went to the shower. When I came back some students we standing around him and an instructor was giving him mouth to mouth. I heard he was taken to the hospital. No one asked me about him, I never saw him again and none of the students said a word. Excellent! A shame he wasn't killed, as he deserved to be. Several days later three of his friends tried to jump me between classes in a relatively isolated area of the campus, one had a knife I gave them a very painful lesson with my nanchuk. I never saw them again either, nor was I ever questioned about them by school administrators. Afterward, I took to walking to classes with friends, mostly other martial arts students, but no further incidents occurred. Its a good thing this happened back then. Today, I would have been shot Unless you shot the fucking African-American attackers dead first. This is why I think bullied kids should carry handguns. Preferably easily concealed ones, the smallest one with the highest caliber. Bust a cap in their fucking brains. and/or arrested. Any cop who would arrest you for a clear-cut case of self-defense would need to be shot dead. -- Tom Veil
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 11:19:11PM +0100, Anonymous wrote: After scanning hyperpoem.net, we've decided to blacklist you for your far left-wing, socialist views, the quote from Ayn Rand notwithstanding. -- Tom Veil What the fuck are you talking about? Neither you nor anyone else has the authority to ban anyone here, shitforbrains. Actually the site looks pretty good, lots of anti-war, anti-dubbyascum stuff -- right on! -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Cardenas wrote on February 18, 2003 at 15:02: You're a fucking racist. I didn't see anything in his post that was indicative of an inherent belief in the superiority of any particular race. If you can't understand why black and latino pride is necessary after centuries of murderous oppression, the pick up a book. Things may have been more violent in the 70's, but thats great. Some people think that revolutions don't happen by sitting behind a keyboard. MEChA is not a gang, they're an important part of helping lots of young people to be concious of their own heritage. Apparently, helping lots of young people to be concious (sic) of their own heritage includes shakedowns, threats and theft: http://www.americanpatrol.org/MECHA/MEChAindex.html It appears that this gang is also bent on re-conquering the South- western United States. And I respect the people who are willing to dedicate their lives to something with meaning a lot more than making more microchips for the rich. Even the so-called poor minorities use and benefit from microchips a hell of a lot more than they benefit from all these consciousness of heritage idiots. I'd say that making microchips, or collecting garbage for that matter, has much more meaning than raising consciousness of ethnic heritage and other such bullshit. You're right about evolution though, all those women's studies and black studies programs are helping evolution along, so that racists like you can have their eyes opened more often. Those programs will eventually be relegated to the ash heaps of history. [snipped] -- michael cardenas | lead software engineer, lindows.com hyperpoem.net | GNU/Linux software developer people.debian.org/~mbc | encrypted email preferred After scanning hyperpoem.net, we've decided to blacklist you for your far left-wing, socialist views, the quote from Ayn Rand notwithstanding. -- Tom Veil
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Steve Shear and Tim May mention some interesting incidents. In Steve Shear's case, there's a mysterious absence of response: No one asked me about him, I never saw him again and none of the students said a word. Several days later three of his friends tried to jump me I never saw them again either, nor was I ever questioned about them by school administrators. Well, obviously my following points will probably be met with scepticism (to say the least), but here goes. If those same incidents had occurred in an all-white environment, most of the time there'd be hell to pay. People would freak out, and students expelled. In THESE cases, however, there's the tolerance and even expectation of bad behavior on the part of black students. While teaching in Brooklyn, I saw the same thing again and again: You can't change them, that's the way they are. Even here, officials fail to respond for fear of political reprisals, while negative behavior is expected. Of course, expectations don't FORCE a group to meet those expectations. So I'm not saying people have no responsibility for their actions. But I AM pointing out that the non-response (of which the NYC High Schools are merely a giant example) is tainted with racism, and this racism gets magnified via the projecting lens (perhaps a camera lumina?) of institutions. So it basically takes whatever's already messed up and excacerbates the problem. As for me, as I have mentioned on this list as a kid I lost a front tooth to a black fist. So, I started taking my GoJu lessons seriously. My GoJu Sensei was (and is) himself Black (and a former student of Peter Urban), as were 50% of the other students. And suffice it to say, he gave me what was necessary to see to it I never lost another tooth! (BTW, he plays the bodygaurd for John Lone in Year of the Dragon.) -TD _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Kevin S. Van Horn wrote: Tyler Durden wrote: Black leadership is one potential issue here, but the other ethnic groups that do so well in the US have no identifiable leaders here. Which is precisely why those ethnic groups do so well, while U.S. blacks do not. The value of leaders is vastly overrated in American society. Same over here in London. I'm a white, English, middle-class sort of bloke. Who are my community leaders? The parish priest? The borough councillors? The landlord of the pub? The member of parliament? The head teacher of the local school? All of whom, apart from the publican, I helped to appoint, and none of whom I feel in the slightest way deferential to or look up to for leadership whatever that is. Who are my community leaders? It's just a silly question. No-one would ask it. Ken Brown
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 10:28 AM, Ken Brown wrote: Kevin S. Van Horn wrote: Tyler Durden wrote: Black leadership is one potential issue here, but the other ethnic groups that do so well in the US have no identifiable leaders here. Which is precisely why those ethnic groups do so well, while U.S. blacks do not. The value of leaders is vastly overrated in American society. Same over here in London. I'm a white, English, middle-class sort of bloke. Who are my community leaders? It goes beyond just the black leaders thing--it's also about black pride. My eye-opening experience was my arrival in college (as Brits would say, at university) in 1970. UCSB, in beautiful Santa Barbara. There I found students from diverse backgrounds and cultures, mixing in the classrooms, the dorms, and the eating halls. Except for the negroes, who all sat together at one set of tables in whichever eating hall they were in. There may have been a few stragglers scattered amongst the other tables, but basically it was de facto, self-selected segregation. Much was spouted about black pride, and the negroes took to wearing huge afros with pimp-combs in their hair. They openly insulted whitey. Essentially, they aligned themselves into a gang. Many of them switched dorm rooms around, resulting in de facto creation of segregated dorm halls. White students avoided these ghettoes, for good reason. (I interviewed in 1971 for a R.A. (resident assistant) position, to help with living costs, and my negro interviewer only asked my questions about what CORE was, what SNCC was, etc. My answers were PC enough, and I was turned down. More and more of the R.A.s were negroes by 1973.) Special departments were created to handle the surge in negro students: Black Studies was the main one, with Sociology expanded to teach classes about the oppression and the marginalization of the black race, blah blah. Swahili was the language they took to meet the minimal foreign language requirements. There were no negroes in my math or physics classes. They were active, however, in student government. One of them, a woman named Judy McClellan, used to hop up on the conference tables in the student government meetings and walk up and down, ranting and screaming at the non-negro, non-Hispanic students. She once, according to reporters for the student newspaper who were in the meeting, had her negro aides stand at the doors so she could tell the council that nobody is leaving until you pass this (something about funding for her programs, etc.). The next year the President of the student council, one Robert Norris, flashed a revolver at white students who were opposing one of his resolutions. When this was reported in the campus newspaper, bails of the newspapers were thrown into the lagoon by negroes. I wrote all of this up in a letter which I sent in June of 1973 to the Regents of the University of California. I included descriptions of many of the atrocities, including the shakedown of funds from white students to go to bogus inner city youth programs (including purchase of a $2500 rare comic book about negroes, a comic book which nobody could later produce to investigators). I described the La Raza Libre Hispanic gang on campus, the MeCHA rival gang, the Black Pride contingent, the Black Students Union, etc. The Regents replied that what I had reported was known to them, but that we live in troubled times, blah blah. I did get a signed letter back from Governor Reagan's top assistant saying they were adding my report to the list of reported problems. The campus newspaper ran my letter in full, and it triggered a minor firestorm. I became sort of the right wing mascot for a few months. I got a few death threats, too, and met with the Chancellor to discuss the issues I'd raised. He agreed with all of my points, clucked about the black and Mexican gangs, but said, echoing the Regents, that we live in troubled times. It was clear to me at the time that the focus on black pride was destructive of _real_ pride. Instead of excelling in math or science, or even law or English or whatever, many of them went into dead-end fields like Black Studies and Swahili. (My nearby university today is UCSC, which has similar programs in Women's Studies, Queer Studies, and History of Consciousness. While a few actual scholars no doubt will come out of such studies, a lot of the graduates will be waitressing at local restaurants, their degrees in Women's Studies of no use in Silicon Valley or anywhere else.) I think of it as evolution in action. Of course, sometimes evolution needs to be helped along a bit. --Tim May
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 11:03 AM, Tim May wrote: Many of them switched dorm rooms around, resulting in de facto creation of segregated dorm halls. White students avoided these ghettoes, for good reason. (I interviewed in 1971 for a R.A. (resident assistant) position, to help with living costs, and my negro interviewer only asked my questions about what CORE was, what SNCC was, etc. My answers were PC enough, and I was turned down. More and more of the R.A.s were negroes by 1973.) were not PC enough, I meant to type. (My most common typing error is hearing the not in my head but not typing it.) --Tim
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
You're a fucking racist. If you can't understand why black and latino pride is necessary after centuries of murderous oppression, the pick up a book. Things may have been more violent in the 70's, but thats great. Some people think that revolutions don't happen by sitting behind a keyboard. MEChA is not a gang, they're an important part of helping lots of young people to be concious of their own heritage. And I respect the people who are willing to dedicate their lives to something with meaning a lot more than making more microchips for the rich. You're right about evolution though, all those women's studies and black studies programs are helping evolution along, so that racists like you can have their eyes opened more often. This is by far the most disgusting thing I've read on this list to date, and is a huge demonstration of your lilliputian mindedness. On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 11:03:25AM -0800, Tim May wrote: On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 10:28 AM, Ken Brown wrote: Kevin S. Van Horn wrote: Tyler Durden wrote: Black leadership is one potential issue here, but the other ethnic groups that do so well in the US have no identifiable leaders here. Which is precisely why those ethnic groups do so well, while U.S. blacks do not. The value of leaders is vastly overrated in American society. Same over here in London. I'm a white, English, middle-class sort of bloke. Who are my community leaders? It goes beyond just the black leaders thing--it's also about black pride. My eye-opening experience was my arrival in college (as Brits would say, at university) in 1970. UCSB, in beautiful Santa Barbara. There I found students from diverse backgrounds and cultures, mixing in the classrooms, the dorms, and the eating halls. Except for the negroes, who all sat together at one set of tables in whichever eating hall they were in. There may have been a few stragglers scattered amongst the other tables, but basically it was de facto, self-selected segregation. Much was spouted about black pride, and the negroes took to wearing huge afros with pimp-combs in their hair. They openly insulted whitey. Essentially, they aligned themselves into a gang. Many of them switched dorm rooms around, resulting in de facto creation of segregated dorm halls. White students avoided these ghettoes, for good reason. (I interviewed in 1971 for a R.A. (resident assistant) position, to help with living costs, and my negro interviewer only asked my questions about what CORE was, what SNCC was, etc. My answers were PC enough, and I was turned down. More and more of the R.A.s were negroes by 1973.) Special departments were created to handle the surge in negro students: Black Studies was the main one, with Sociology expanded to teach classes about the oppression and the marginalization of the black race, blah blah. Swahili was the language they took to meet the minimal foreign language requirements. There were no negroes in my math or physics classes. They were active, however, in student government. One of them, a woman named Judy McClellan, used to hop up on the conference tables in the student government meetings and walk up and down, ranting and screaming at the non-negro, non-Hispanic students. She once, according to reporters for the student newspaper who were in the meeting, had her negro aides stand at the doors so she could tell the council that nobody is leaving until you pass this (something about funding for her programs, etc.). The next year the President of the student council, one Robert Norris, flashed a revolver at white students who were opposing one of his resolutions. When this was reported in the campus newspaper, bails of the newspapers were thrown into the lagoon by negroes. I wrote all of this up in a letter which I sent in June of 1973 to the Regents of the University of California. I included descriptions of many of the atrocities, including the shakedown of funds from white students to go to bogus inner city youth programs (including purchase of a $2500 rare comic book about negroes, a comic book which nobody could later produce to investigators). I described the La Raza Libre Hispanic gang on campus, the MeCHA rival gang, the Black Pride contingent, the Black Students Union, etc. The Regents replied that what I had reported was known to them, but that we live in troubled times, blah blah. I did get a signed letter back from Governor Reagan's top assistant saying they were adding my report to the list of reported problems. The campus newspaper ran my letter in full, and it triggered a minor firestorm. I became sort of the right wing mascot for a few months. I got a few death threats, too, and met with the Chancellor to discuss the issues I'd raised. He agreed with all of my points, clucked about the black and Mexican gangs, but said, echoing the Regents, that we live in troubled times. It was clear to me at the time that
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Tim May wrote... It was clear to me at the time that the focus on black pride was destructive of _real_ pride. Against my better judgement, I find myself agreeing with this statement on one level. However, it should be noted that the Black Pride movement of the late 60s and early 70s was a necessary reaction to years and years of negative messages sent towards the notion of being African American. Black Pride was probably the most valuable for nothing else than being a political movement that asserted that asserting such a thing was possible or desirable. However, this notion of Black Pride eventually on some levels reinforced an almost ghettoization of black culture, both by blacks as well as Whites. As a simple example, we still use the term African Americans to refer to 'black' folks (which seems to mean any person with even a single gene inherited from the African continent), even though the relationship between black folks and Africa is probably not any closer than black folks and Europe. (Likewise, White folks partake daily of the fruits of African culture in our lands, the most obvious example being music.) So we still maintain that there's American culture, and then there's African American culture, a dichotomy that is reflected in the equally racist notions of black and white people. The sad thing is that this marginalization/ghettoization extends even to the absolute highest arts. A couple of years ago I caught Wayne SHorter and Herbie Hancock, and their performance was as abstract, complex, and multi-hued as anything this overly cutlured NYC boy has experienced. And I don't remember seeing a single black face in the audience. So now Jazz is white, despite its profoundly African roots, while many (of course not all) black folks are willing to settle for either overproduced muzaky trash, or mindless rap (Not that all rap is mindless by the way, but less and less of it is of the caliber of Public Enemy or Grandmaster Flash.) I would presume that one reason for this has to do with the fact that real Jazz is no longer perceived by most black folks as being black, so it is largely ignored. However, that this pack mentality for many black folks exists should be no suprise, as there's strength in numbers and as my father says, Where there are two or more Americans gathered have ye a lynch mob. So its dangerous in this country to be marginalized, for to be marginalized means to be largely disempowered. It's something of a mistake, tis true, but its probably the universal human reaction to years and years of oppression and hate. I think of it as evolution in action. Of course, sometimes evolution needs to be helped along a bit. Uh, Ok whatever. I'd point out that the genetic diversity of African Americans is such that they are probably genetically superior to most whites. Don't think that being fantastic at sports is some indication that black folks are merely big, dumb graceful animals. If those same kids had the same drive to excel in mathematics or science, they'd do extremely well. In the 80s I worked in one of the toughest High Schools in the country, in Brooklyn. One of my students was brutally murdered, and throughout a semester several would be out sick due to being atacked with knives. (This was in addition to fireworks being set off regularly in the halls, gang fights, rampant vandalism and recreational fires and so on.) And yet it was quite clear to me that the intelligence level of these students was by no means much less than that of whites at good high schools (I attended a famous Science and math HS in NYC.). The sad thing was that these kids really had never been exposed to the why of education, and asked me regularly about the basic math I was teaching them: Why do we have to learn this? We'll never use this in real life. More than this, they couldn't even really conceive of a life without the ubiquitous violence and filth around them. There was no real reason to do well or get a good job. In the end, it not only felt futile to work there, it was depressing. Was this black people's fault? Nah. It's all of our fault. -TD _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Tuesday 18 February 2003 20:44, Tyler Durden wrote: (snip) More than this, they couldn't even really conceive of a life without the ubiquitous violence and filth around them. There was no real reason to do well or get a good job. In the end, it not only felt futile to work there, it was depressing. Was this black people's fault? Nah. It's all of our fault. That is utter bullshit. I didn't do anything to any of these people and I am in no position to change their circumstances. Abolishing the public school/juvenile delinquent factories and making schools compete for their students on based on the quality of the education offered would result in a tremendous improvement the quality of life of these kids. But that's just one of the things I can't change for them. The money I put into these systems is stolen from me. All I can do is homeschool my own kids. All this distributing collective blame and laying blanket guilt trips on all Americans for the sins of previous generations or the screw-ups of our betters gives me gas. David Neilson
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Tuesday 18 February 2003 20:16, Bill wrote: At 5:53 PM -0800 2/17/03, Tyler Durden wrote: Any kid coming to school with a knife or gun gets thrown out, period. Gee, when I was in high school, I was on the high school rifle team. I still have the varsity letter with the crossed rifles on it. Our ammo was paid for by the US military, who wanted recruits who could shoot. I brought my gun to school at the beginning of the season, and took it home at the end. Teenager have the same right to self defense that adults do. Why would any sane kid want to go into one of those war zones unarmed? Why would any sane parent allow them to do so? David Neilson
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 08:04:14PM -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote: Yeah, no kidding. Lot's of kids brought guns to school when I was in highschool. Kids that lived in the country would hunt before school, catch the schoolbus, with their rifle or shotgun in a case, of course, and put it in their locker while in class, take it out, take the bus home and hunt after school. Why not? And of course they were usually carrying a fair amount of ammo as well. And when I was in college at the UW-Madison, I regularly took my .22 target pistol down to the university indoor range and practiced. I'm not sure that college students are even allowed to have guns in the dorm now. I attend UW Madison now, although I don't live in the dorms. Not even BB guns are allowed. http://www.housing.wisc.edu/reshallshandbook/expectations.html#weapons John Bethencourt
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Tim May wrote: Swahili was the language they took to meet the minimal foreign language requirements. This sounds like the one worthwhile course in the bunch. One may learn a foreign language in order to be able to read important literary, historical, philosophical, or scientific works in other languages, in which case Latin, Greek, German, and French are good languages; in order to be able to communicate well with a wider group of people, in which case Spanish is a good language for Americans to learn; or just to broaden one's horizons, in which case I am told that Swahili is a good choice, as it is structurally so different from Indo-European languages.
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Tim May wrote: It goes beyond just the black leaders thing--it's also about black pride. My eye-opening experience was my arrival in college (as Brits would say, at university) in 1970. Well, this post explains a lot about Tim's attitude. Myself, I never ran into this kind of crap in college. I attended college 10 years later, in a conservative state (Utah). The few blacks I've encountered personally have mostly seemed to be decent people.
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 04:43 PM, Kevin S. Van Horn wrote: Tim May wrote: It goes beyond just the black leaders thing--it's also about black pride. My eye-opening experience was my arrival in college (as Brits would say, at university) in 1970. Well, this post explains a lot about Tim's attitude. Myself, I never ran into this kind of crap in college. I attended college 10 years later, in a conservative state (Utah). The few blacks I've encountered personally have mostly seemed to be decent people. I know a few people who went to BYU and tell me that most of the negroes attending BYU were from African countries, part of the Mormon recruiting process (which is very successful, of course). I assume some number of other negroes at BYU are American, just as there are some negroes at Bob Jones University. These are self-selected folks, of course. I also knew some negroes in college who were from African countries, including a Sudanese guy in my relativity class. They behaved quite normally, modulo their foreign background. My attitude has also been shaped by watching this situation for the past 40 years. I used to even use the term black for negroes, before they started changing the name every few years (Afro-American, African-American, person of color) and calling anyone who used the replaced name a racist. Also, I watched what happened when I proposed a White Students Union in college. It seems negroes are give carte blanche, so to speak, to spew about honkies and hymies and whiteys and to declare everyone else racist. In fact, their most-revered ideologists have been explaining how negroes cannot be racist, no matter their language or discrimination, because racism is about the oppression and marginalization of peoples of color by the dominant whitemale paradigm. Or whatever. In the past fifteen years I have come to realize that crypto anarchy will probably change all this, as it makes for a system where only a competent elite does well. Probably fifty million marginal Americans, including nearly all of the so-called peoples of color, will, one hopes, fade away. Race warfare may be coming, as the inner city mutants have their meal tickets cancelled. This is why so many white people are buying so many guns. --Tim May
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
At 5:53 PM -0800 2/17/03, Tyler Durden wrote: Any kid coming to school with a knife or gun gets thrown out, period. Gee, when I was in high school, I was on the high school rifle team. I still have the varsity letter with the crossed rifles on it. Our ammo was paid for by the US military, who wanted recruits who could shoot. I brought my gun to school at the beginning of the season, and took it home at the end. Cheers - Bill - Bill Frantz | Due process for all| Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | used to be the | 16345 Englewood Ave. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | American way. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 05:16:26PM -0800, Bill Frantz wrote: At 5:53 PM -0800 2/17/03, Tyler Durden wrote: Any kid coming to school with a knife or gun gets thrown out, period. Gee, when I was in high school, I was on the high school rifle team. I still have the varsity letter with the crossed rifles on it. Our ammo was paid for by the US military, who wanted recruits who could shoot. I brought my gun to school at the beginning of the season, and took it home at the end. Yeah, no kidding. Lot's of kids brought guns to school when I was in highschool. Kids that lived in the country would hunt before school, catch the schoolbus, with their rifle or shotgun in a case, of course, and put it in their locker while in class, take it out, take the bus home and hunt after school. Why not? And of course they were usually carrying a fair amount of ammo as well. And when I was in college at the UW-Madison, I regularly took my .22 target pistol down to the university indoor range and practiced. I'm not sure that college students are even allowed to have guns in the dorm now. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 at 12:01:38 -0800, Cardenas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're a fucking racist. Which are you, a lazy nigger or a dirty spic? A raging fag, maybe? If you can't understand why black and latino pride is necessary after centuries of murderous oppression, the pick up a book. And they have nothing to do with it, and crying for decades that they need more and more handouts because of this murderous oppression is nothing but bullshit, pure and simple. MEChA is not a gang, they're an important part of helping lots of young people to be concious of their own heritage. Just like the Crips and the Bloods. And I respect the people who are willing to dedicate their lives to something with meaning a lot more than making more microchips for the rich. Computers have become too ghetto if more than just the rich can afford them. Even shit like you can afford one. You're right about evolution though, all those women's studies and black studies programs are helping evolution along, so that racists like you can have their eyes opened more often. Yes, I do want fries with that, Sambo. This is by far the most disgusting thing I've read on this list to date, and is a huge demonstration of your lilliputian mindedness. You really are fucking stupid, aren't you?
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Tyler Durden wrote: Black leadership is one potential issue here, but the other ethnic groups that do so well in the US have no identifiable leaders here. Which is precisely why those ethnic groups do so well, while U.S. blacks do not. The value of leaders is vastly overrated in American society. The only kind of leader worth having is one who isn't trying to be a leader at all, but whose admirable conduct inspires others to emulate him/her.
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Harmon Seaver wrote on January 31, 2003 at 11:03: On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 10:59:02PM -, Tom Veil wrote: Tim May wrote on January 22, 2003 at 00:55: I expect 20 million to die. Fortunately, 18 million of them will be the usual Democrat, Commies, welfare recipients, negro activists, and Socialist fellow travellers. The other two million will be the Bushies. And proably most of the remaining Jews will be scourged, as payment for their support of thefts, of Zionism, etc. Sounds fair to me. Ain't gonna be a lot of negroes and Mexicans after this war is over. 20 million sounds a bit low. Given that the current US population is around 281 million, we're talking about only 7 percent of the population. According to the most recent Census data, blacks currently account for around 12.6 percent, or 35.5 million, and Mexicans, 7.3 percent, or about 20.6 million. On top of that are millions of commies, socialists, Demonrats, and welfare addicts that don't fall into the aforementioned minority categories. Even if 20 million are liquidated, there will still be plenty of vermin around to replenish their numbers. Let's not forget all the corporate welfare bums, we need to put all those mega-corp executives and all the farmers at the top of that list. They get far more welfare than anyone else. Also all the military, that's just another form of welfare bum. Cut them off too. I strongly advocate eliminating subsidies to private businesses and the military-industrial complex, just as I do direct payments to individuals. (It's true that the military consumes much, much more money than it should, but at least the Army and Navy are constitutionally legitimate.) Keep in mind that the total amount the federal sugar-daddy gives out in corporate welfare pales in comparison to annual spending for individual welfare programs, which include AFDC, WIC, socialist insecurity, medicare, medicaid, etc. Those programs currently account for just over half of all federal expenditures, and none of those programs are constitutional. -- Tom Veil
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Tim Veil wrote... Because the money that is given to them through these unconstitutional federal gravy-train programs was stolen from me, and millions of other taxpayers at gunpoint. Again, I'm not sure why this results in rancor towards those receiving such funds. It's not like black folks are really running this show. As far as I'm concerned, those funds are basically a buyoff: welfare (combined with giant storage-schools...stay in school!) keep the lumpen prolitariat from rising up and bum rushin' the show. And to tell you the truth, if someone handed me a check I'd friggin cash it so fast I'd make the skinniest welfare crack addict look like a turtle on check day. Don't bring out the tired old excuse of blacks being oppressed by the US system. Plenty of people have received their share of shitty deals, yet they put all that behind them and managed to prosper while the black so-called leadership is still whining and clamoring for mo' welfare and affirmative-action. Well, here's the meat of this issue, and where the issue gets sticky. Let me first of all state that there IS an issue here. Go to the grad schools in math, science, and engineering. The number of African Americans in PhD programs in these areas is disproportionately low. (I've heard it said that in many years the number of PhDs given nationwide to African Americans in mathematics is often only 2 or 3!) Meanwhile, immigrant Asians (Chinese, Vietnamese, etc...) zoom past African Americans in these areas, despite the fact that they almost invariably come out of poverty that only rural areas of the Ozarks and the deep south come close to. So I agree there's an issue here. What's the problem? Race? Aside from the fact that race is itself a nearly fictional concept, in the same PhD programs we see plenty of Africans, Haitians, and other black and nominally black folks doing just fine, at least here in the snow-pummeled northeast. Is the white man holding down black folks? Possibly. But I am willing to concede this is only an excacerbating factor here, for reasons that can easily be derived from the paragraph above. Are African Americans just plain stupider than white folks? No way. First of all, African Americans (such as Halle Berry) are not significantly different genetically from whites (apparently most African Americans have a preponderance of European genes, while something like 50% of males in the South are believed to have some percentage of African genes). In addition, anyone who's spent real time with, say, A Love Supreme by Coltrane understands that black folks constituted the US's equivalent of Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, and Stravinsky. So inherent genetic capability or other potential smarts/talent is not the issue here. (And for the record, the CEO of the Fortune 100 company I work for is African American.) Black leadership is one potential issue here, but the other ethnic groups that do so well in the US have no identifiable leaders here. Why do we assume that black folks somehow are special in needing leadership that is any less predatory than white leadership? I'd go on to attempt an answer, but it'll only come out sounding vageuly Utne-reader-ish. Let's just say that what makes an ethnic group healthy is the strength of civil and familial bonds. And throwing money at the problem ain't going to make it go away. Want one piece of a solution? Excellent, no-bullshit schools. Any school that needs a metal detector should get blown up. Any kid coming to school with a knife or gun gets thrown out, period. The kid can be free to roam the streets, or get arrested or whatever, but he ain't rotated to another school. Also, completely uncompromised and European-level academic standards. None of this you can't graduate from a real education system 'cause your underprivileged crap. Regents exams in every subject, and if you don't pass enough of 'em you're out on your ass. Of course, liberals and conservatives alike would be horrified to have those lumpen-kids out on the streets. But at least have a real education system that's not a complete fucking joke. This might not solve the problem, but at least you gave a hungry man a fishing pole. If he doesn't use it after that, that's his problem. But right, the schools are a joke. Talk about reparations? Blacks have already received plenty of reparations. We called it the Great Society. Well, if the reparations took the form of a real school system that wasn't a laughable joke, I'd be for it, and consider it the price I have to pay for livin' pretty high on the hog these days, thank you (I was drivin' around in 2 feet of snow tonight in My MB SUV lookin' for an open McDonalds! Holy shit I'm corrupt!). Any other 'reparations' would probably be time and money wasted that could be put to best use learning how to convert Iraqi bodies into black-top for our oil trucks! -TD -- Tim Veil
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Tyler Durden wrote on January 30, 2003 at 16:40: Tom Veil wrote... According to the most recent Census data, blacks currently account for around 12.6 percent, or 35.5 million, Even if 20 million are liquidated, there will still be plenty of vermin around to replenish their numbers. -- Tom Veil So what's the deal with hating black folks? I still don't get it. Of course, there's the old They Eat Up Welfare Money bullshit, but aside from the fact that Whites eat up more welfare (absolute and percentage), I don't hate black people, nor did I claim that they consumed most federal welfare expenditures. Keep in mind that I said that there were millions ..of welfare addicts that weren't Black or Mexican. why get mad at folks if they take $$$ that are given to them? Because the money that is given to them through these unconstitutional federal gravy-train programs was stolen from me, and millions of other taxpayers at gunpoint. In the case of black folks, however, this is a population that has not been well served by the US system, despite their disproportionate contributions (Trane, Monk, Bird, Miles anyone?). Don't bring out the tired old excuse of blacks being oppressed by the US system. Plenty of people have received their share of shitty deals, yet they put all that behind them and managed to prosper while the black so- called leadership is still whining and clamoring for mo' welfare and affirmative-action. Talk about reparations? Blacks have already received plenty of reparations. We called it the Great Society. -- Tom Veil
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Harmon Seaver wrote on January 31, 2003 at 11:03: On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 10:59:02PM -, Tom Veil wrote: Tim May wrote on January 22, 2003 at 00:55: I expect 20 million to die. Fortunately, 18 million of them will be the usual Democrat, Commies, welfare recipients, negro activists, and Socialist fellow travellers. The other two million will be the Bushies. And proably most of the remaining Jews will be scourged, as payment for their support of thefts, of Zionism, etc. Sounds fair to me. Ain't gonna be a lot of negroes and Mexicans after this war is over. 20 million sounds a bit low. Given that the current US population is around 281 million, we're talking about only 7 percent of the population. According to the most recent Census data, blacks currently account for around 12.6 percent, or 35.5 million, and Mexicans, 7.3 percent, or about 20.6 million. On top of that are millions of commies, socialists, Demonrats, and welfare addicts that don't fall into the aforementioned minority categories. Even if 20 million are liquidated, there will still be plenty of vermin around to replenish their numbers. Let's not forget all the corporate welfare bums, we need to put all those mega-corp executives and all the farmers at the top of that list. They get far more welfare than anyone else. Also all the military, that's just another form of welfare bum. Cut them off too. I strongly advocate eliminating subsidies to private businesses and the military-industrial complex, just as I do direct payments to individuals. (It's true that the military consumes much, much more money than it should, but at least the Army and Navy are constitutionally legitimate.) Keep in mind that the total amount the federal sugar-daddy gives out in corporate welfare pales in comparison to annual spending for individual welfare programs, which include AFDC, WIC, socialist insecurity, medicare, medicaid, etc. Those programs currently account for just over half of all federal expenditures, and none of those programs are constitutional. -- Tom Veil
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Sunday 16 February 2003 21:16, you wrote: (It's true that the military consumes much, much more money than it should, but at least the Army and Navy are constitutionally legitimate.) Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution says: The Congress shall have the Power To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years; To provide and maintain a Navy; A permanent Navy is certainly authorized by the Constitution. A standing army is something the founders feared and clearly meant to circumvent by preventing any army from being funded for more than two years. Maintaining a permanent standing army by renewing its funding every two years is simply more treasonous bullshit from the fecal matter infesting Washington D.C. David Neilson
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities is aQ
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 10:59:02PM -, Tom Veil wrote: Tim May wrote on January 22, 2003 at 00:55: I expect 20 million to die. Fortunately, 18 million of them will be the usual Democrat, Commies, welfare recipients, negro activists, and Socialist fellow travellers. The other two million will be the Bushies. And proably most of the remaining Jews will be scourged, as payment for their support of thefts, of Zionism, etc. Sounds fair to me. Ain't gonna be a lot of negroes and Mexicans after this war is over. 20 million sounds a bit low. Given that the current US population is around 281 million, we're talking about only 7 percent of the population. According to the most recent Census data, blacks currently account for around 12.6 percent, or 35.5 million, and Mexicans, 7.3 percent, or about 20.6 million. On top of that are millions of commies, socialists, Demonrats, and welfare addicts that don't fall into the aforementioned minority categories. Even if 20 million are liquidated, there will still be plenty of vermin around to replenish their numbers. Let's not forget all the corporate welfare bums, we need to put all those mega-corp executives and all the farmers at the top of that list. They get far more welfare than anyone else. Also all the military, that's just another form of welfare bum. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities is aQ
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 10:59:02PM -, Tom Veil wrote: Tim May wrote on January 22, 2003 at 00:55: I expect 20 million to die. Fortunately, 18 million of them will be the usual Democrat, Commies, welfare recipients, negro activists, and Socialist fellow travellers. The other two million will be the Bushies. And proably most of the remaining Jews will be scourged, as payment for their support of thefts, of Zionism, etc. Sounds fair to me. Ain't gonna be a lot of negroes and Mexicans after this war is over. 20 million sounds a bit low. Given that the current US population is around 281 million, we're talking about only 7 percent of the population. According to the most recent Census data, blacks currently account for around 12.6 percent, or 35.5 million, and Mexicans, 7.3 percent, or about 20.6 million. On top of that are millions of commies, socialists, Demonrats, and welfare addicts that don't fall into the aforementioned minority categories. Even if 20 million are liquidated, there will still be plenty of vermin around to replenish their numbers. Let's not forget all the corporate welfare bums, we need to put all those mega-corp executives and all the farmers at the top of that list. They get far more welfare than anyone else. Also all the military, that's just another form of welfare bum. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities is aQ
Tom Veil wrote... According to the most recent Census data, blacks currently account for around 12.6 percent, or 35.5 million, Even if 20 million are liquidated, there will still be plenty of vermin around to replenish their numbers. -- Tom Veil So what's the deal with hating black folks? I still don't get it. Of course, there's the old They Eat Up Welfare Money bullshit, but aside from the fact that Whites eat up more welfare (absolute and percentage), why get mad at folks if they take $$$ that are given to them? In the case of black folks, however, this is a population that has not been well served by the US system, despite their disproportionate contributions (Trane, Monk, Bird, Miles anyone?). As for me I grew up in a very tough black neighborhood in NYC, and lost a front tooth to a black fist. (When I was a kid that is. Not a lot of people even here would try something like that with me now.) So I theoretically have the right to hate. But the fact is that if you live with black folks, you see there's really not a hell of a lot of difference between them and whites in this country (except they don't seem to like meat cooked medium rare for some reason). -TD _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities is aQ
Tim May wrote on January 22, 2003 at 00:55: I expect 20 million to die. Fortunately, 18 million of them will be the usual Democrat, Commies, welfare recipients, negro activists, and Socialist fellow travellers. The other two million will be the Bushies. And proably most of the remaining Jews will be scourged, as payment for their support of thefts, of Zionism, etc. Sounds fair to me. Ain't gonna be a lot of negroes and Mexicans after this war is over. 20 million sounds a bit low. Given that the current US population is around 281 million, we're talking about only 7 percent of the population. According to the most recent Census data, blacks currently account for around 12.6 percent, or 35.5 million, and Mexicans, 7.3 percent, or about 20.6 million. On top of that are millions of commies, socialists, Demonrats, and welfare addicts that don't fall into the aforementioned minority categories. Even if 20 million are liquidated, there will still be plenty of vermin around to replenish their numbers. -- Tom Veil
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities is about tobegin
Tim May wrote... Ain't gonna be a lot of negroes and Mexicans after this war is over. (I'm not a racist. It's their leaders and their ideology that is to blame. These leaders have led their followers to acts which cannot be forgiven, and which must be punished by death. Nearly all of them need killing for what they have done, regardless of which mischief-makers taught them their mischief.) What a bunch of silly bullshit. This is the view of blacks one gets by watching TV. The vast majority of blacks in this country don't have a leader per se. What percentage of black folks do you think follow Al Sharpton, Farrakhan, or anyone else for that matter? Ah well. Not a lot of black folks in his part of Silicon Valley, I guess. Tim May needs to get out more and stop watching COPS or whatever. -TD From: Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities is about to begin Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:54:34 -0800 On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 11:55 AM, Anonymous wrote: I'm sure that I do nothing new in drawing parallels between the occurences in George Orwell's seminal text 1984 and the founding of the Information Awareness Office. It is nothing short of terrifying that someone wants to gather all digital information on anyone and everyone into a giant database for the purpose of finding out who is a social undesirable and who isn't. We are moving into another glorious age, where one may come under scrutiny due to the books and films that we rent, the clothes that we buy, and the places that we visit. This has happened before and will probably happen again and we will still probably learn nothing from it. My question is why is everyone so apathetic about this? But we're NOT apathetic about this. Many of us have acquired the usual assault rifles, explosives, etc., and we anticipate the onset of Revolution. Look to anonymous remailers, militias, and depots as the reason the free man has been preparing. I expect 20 million to die. Fortunately, 18 million of them will be the usual Democrat, Commies, welfare recipients, negro activists, and Socialist fellow travellers. The other two million will be the Bushies. And proably most of the remaining Jews will be scourged, as payment for their support of thefts, of Zionism, etc. Sounds fair to me. Ain't gonna be a lot of negroes and Mexicans after this war is over. (I'm not a racist. It's their leaders and their ideology that is to blame. These leaders have led their followers to acts which cannot be forgiven, and which must be punished by death. Nearly all of them need killing for what they have done, regardless of which mischief-makers taught them their mischief.) We should be cheerful about this upcoming burn-off of twenty million negroes, Mexicans, Jews, and liberals will mean. --Tim May _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
RE: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities is about to begin
Tim May[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] [...] But we're NOT apathetic about this. Many of us have acquired the usual assault rifles, May I suggest calling them Homeland Defense Rifles? You're in CA. What's your take on the registration requirements that came into force this year? [...] --Tim May Peter
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities is about tobegin
Tim May wrote... Ain't gonna be a lot of negroes and Mexicans after this war is over. (I'm not a racist. It's their leaders and their ideology that is to blame. These leaders have led their followers to acts which cannot be forgiven, and which must be punished by death. Nearly all of them need killing for what they have done, regardless of which mischief-makers taught them their mischief.) What a bunch of silly bullshit. This is the view of blacks one gets by watching TV. The vast majority of blacks in this country don't have a leader per se. What percentage of black folks do you think follow Al Sharpton, Farrakhan, or anyone else for that matter? Ah well. Not a lot of black folks in his part of Silicon Valley, I guess. Tim May needs to get out more and stop watching COPS or whatever. -TD From: Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities is about to begin Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:54:34 -0800 On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 11:55 AM, Anonymous wrote: I'm sure that I do nothing new in drawing parallels between the occurences in George Orwell's seminal text 1984 and the founding of the Information Awareness Office. It is nothing short of terrifying that someone wants to gather all digital information on anyone and everyone into a giant database for the purpose of finding out who is a social undesirable and who isn't. We are moving into another glorious age, where one may come under scrutiny due to the books and films that we rent, the clothes that we buy, and the places that we visit. This has happened before and will probably happen again and we will still probably learn nothing from it. My question is why is everyone so apathetic about this? But we're NOT apathetic about this. Many of us have acquired the usual assault rifles, explosives, etc., and we anticipate the onset of Revolution. Look to anonymous remailers, militias, and depots as the reason the free man has been preparing. I expect 20 million to die. Fortunately, 18 million of them will be the usual Democrat, Commies, welfare recipients, negro activists, and Socialist fellow travellers. The other two million will be the Bushies. And proably most of the remaining Jews will be scourged, as payment for their support of thefts, of Zionism, etc. Sounds fair to me. Ain't gonna be a lot of negroes and Mexicans after this war is over. (I'm not a racist. It's their leaders and their ideology that is to blame. These leaders have led their followers to acts which cannot be forgiven, and which must be punished by death. Nearly all of them need killing for what they have done, regardless of which mischief-makers taught them their mischief.) We should be cheerful about this upcoming burn-off of twenty million negroes, Mexicans, Jews, and liberals will mean. --Tim May _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
RE: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities is about to begin
Tim May[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] [...] But we're NOT apathetic about this. Many of us have acquired the usual assault rifles, May I suggest calling them Homeland Defense Rifles? You're in CA. What's your take on the registration requirements that came into force this year? [...] --Tim May Peter
