Re: What tool can I use to make efficient incremental backups?

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 21 August 2017 23:43:09 Celejar wrote:

> On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 02:05:46 -0400
>
> Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > On Saturday 19 August 2017 23:07:01 Celejar wrote:
> > > On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 11:47:34 -0500
> > >
> > > Mario Castelán Castro  wrote:
> > > > Hello.
> > > >
> > > > Currently I use rsync to make the backups of my personal data,
> > > > including some manually selected important files of system
> > > > configuration. I keep old backups to be more safe from the
> > > > scenario where I have deleted something important, I make a
> > > > backup, and I only notice the deletion afterwards.
> > > >
> > > > Each backup snapshot is stored in its own directory. There is
> > > > much redundancy between subsequent backups. I use the option
> > > > "--link-dest" to make hard links and thus save space for files
> > > > that are *identical* to an already-existing file in the backup
> > > > repository. but this is still inefficient. Any change to a file,
> > > > even to its metadata (permission, modification time, etc.), will
> > > > result in the file being saved at whole, instead of a delta.
> > > >
> > > > Can you suggest a more efficient alternative?
> > >
> > > There's Borg, which apparently has good deduplication. I've just
> > > started using it, but it's a very sophisticated and quite popular
> > > piece of software, judging by chatter in various internet threads.
> > >
> > > https://borgbackup.readthedocs.io/en/stable/
> > >
> > > Celejar
> >
> > Amanda has quite intelligent ways to do that. I run it nightly and
> > have
>
> [Snipped lots of miscellaneous, but seemingly irrelevant, discussion
> about Amanda's virtues.]
>
> Amanda does deduplication? Link?
>
> Celejar

Amanda does not do this "deduplication" that I am aware of.

That is another aspect of data control that does not belong in the job 
discription of what a backup program should do, which is to be a 
repository on some other storage medium besides the day to day operating 
cache, of the data you will need to recover and restore normal 
operations should your main drive become unusable with no signs of ill 
health until its falls over.

The backup program should be a relatively simple, so dependable its 
boring, yet smart enough to adjust its internal schedule of backup 
levels so as to use as much of the storage media as it needs on a long 
time continuous use scenario. Amanda carries this to extremes but you 
may have to help it occasionally if a given entry in the disklist grows 
until a level 0 back no longer fits on the amount of media you allow it 
to use per run.  As I've added machines to the list as they've been 
added to my home network over the last 20 years, I find myself needing 
to either buy a bigger drive, or further breakup my home directory into 
smaller pieces to reduce the total size of that one entry.  But amanda 
will never throw you under the bus, it a full won't fit, it continues to 
do level 1's or even level 2's.

A level 1 is anything that has changed since the last level 0, a level 2 
is anything changed since the previous level 1, etc etc.

Amanda is an administrator program, useing, at the PFC level of the 
duty's, usually tar and gzip but can use other compressors, for the 
actual data moving.  It keeps records over the span time you set it up 
to use, so It knows where everything it has backed up is.  But because 
those records are stored on the daily use drive, they aren't of much 
utility if you need to do a bare metal recovery, so I wrote a wrapper 
that adds this database and a copy of the configuration that made the 
back to the end of every backup it makes, so I can. and have actually 
done a bare metal recovery to a new drive in around 8 hours. The only 
thing I lost was about 75 emails that had come in since the nightly 
backup a few hours before that failure.

Backups are so much a personal preferences thing its hard to define.

Some folks who are used to doing a full backup on friday night that may 
take 50 terrabytes worth of tapes and a tape library that costs $50,000 
that they simply cannot wrap their mind around a program that does a 
level 0 of a given disklist entry on any arbitrary nightly run. And 
keeps track of a system such as the NY State Health system, doing it on 
a tape a night.

They can't get that amanda keeps records, and if you need to recover the 
home directories of Joe and Jane Sixpack who work in sales, amanda will 
look up the last level 0, restore that, and restore over that from the 
various other level 1 or 2 backups made since until it arrives at and 
recovers anything of theirs in last nights backup. I am backing up 5 
machines here, using 20 to 32 GB worth of space a night on a separate 1 
TB drive thats currently about 78% full.

You can make up your own mind, but to me amanda has been a good thing.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please 

Re: Relocated Header Directories

[Christian Seiler]

On 08/21/2017 09:12 PM, Dutch Ingraham wrote:
> For example, Fedora (and Gentoo,
> etc. )
> also installs glibc for both 32- and 64-bit on the same machine, but
> they have not
> relocated these header files.  So are you saying this was just Debian's
> method
> of solving the multi-arch issue, and other distributions solved in some
> other way?

Other distributions' support for multiple architectures is limited to
32bit and 64bit of the same fundamental CPU - for example 32bit and
64bit Intel/AMD CPUs. In these cases the header files that are
installed have traditionally been the same (just with #ifdef in them
for things that differ). What you can't do on those distributions is
install packages from foreign architectures on your local system;
for example you can't install a library for ARM on a system with
Intel/AMD CPUs on those systems.

Debian and Ubuntu decided to go a more thorough route here: instead
of just supporting the parallel installation of 32bit and 64bit
packages they decided to fully support the installation of packages
from arbitrary architectures. This means that instead of having
/usr/lib32 and /usr/lib64, you have /usr/lib/ARCH (where ARCH is
the triplet that specifies the architecture, for example
x86_64-linux-gnu or arm-linux-gnueabihf) and /usr/include/ARCH.
Libraries themselves should not be installed in /usr/lib directly
anymore (and most libraries have already moved to /usr/lib/ARCH,
but some packages haven't yet), while /usr/include (without ARCH)
does still have a purpose: for those headers where the architecture
doesn't play a role at all. Architecture-dependent headers should
go into /usr/include/ARCH instead though. The compiler and linker
are configured in such a way that they'll look in _both_ directories
by default (with a preference for the ARCH directory) when searching
for header files and libraries.

Now it might seem strange to do this, as you can't natively run an
ARM application on an Intel/AMD CPU (you'd need an emulator for
that, though there are such things for binaries alone, take a look
at qemu-user for that), but there are other benefits to this scheme:

 - You can use this scheme to cross-compile to other architectures.
   Want to create an arm64 Debian package? Install the build
   dependent libraries in their arm64 variants on your system and
   you can do so (if the package supports cross-compiling, which
   not all do).

 - Since there's no arbitrary restriction of 32bit and 64bit that
   may be installed in parallel, there are cases when there are
   two different 32bit architectures you may want to install in
   parallel. For example, there are two 32bit ARM variants
   supported by Debian at the moment: armel and armhf. Both use
   the ARM EABI binary interface, but armhf assumes that ARMv7
   floating point instructions are present in the CPU (along with
   the corresponding registers) while armel uses software emulation
   for floating point instructions (to support ARM CPUs that don't
   have them). Now say you have an ARM application (from a 3rd-
   party repository for example) that was compiled for armel, but
   your system is armhf. In Debian you can just install the
   libraries required for that program in their armel variant onto
   your otherwise armhf system and you can run that program.
   Whereas other distributions would put the libraries for both
   variants in /lib32 (or just /lib) in those cases, so you could
   not install the same libraries for both architectures - which
   also includes the system C library.

 - Code compiled for alternative C libraries (e.g. musl instead
   of glibc) can't be linked against code compiled for the standard
   C library. In Debian you have a trivial way of installing code
   that was compiled for both: alternative C libraries use a
   different architecture specifier, in the case of musl for
   example x86_64-linux-musl (vs. x86_64-linux-gnu) and you can
   also install libraries compiled for both variants in parallel.

The only disadvantage in my eyes seems to be that Debian and its
derivatives (Ubuntu, etc.) are the only ones that do this, and all
the other distributions seem to favor the /lib32 vs /lib64 variant
to do this.

Regards,
Christian

Re: USB wireless keyboard in stretch

[Mario Castelán Castro]

On 21/08/17 17:09, Alle Meije Wink wrote:
> Does anyone understand the cause of this problem
*The USB wireless keyboard IS itself a problem*. You are unnecessarily
contaminating the environment consuming Voltaic cells where none is
needed (obviously wired keyboards feed through the cable) and
broadcasting what you write over the air, including your passwords.

>& how to fix it? Thanks!

Very simple: Use a wired keyboard.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: USB wireless keyboard in stretch

[Jape Person]

On 08/21/2017 10:46 PM, Mario Castelán Castro wrote:

On 21/08/17 17:09, Alle Meije Wink wrote:

Does anyone understand the cause of this problem
*The USB wireless keyboard IS itself a problem*. You are 
unnecessarily contaminating the environment consuming Voltaic cells 
where none is needed (obviously wired keyboards feed through the 
cable) and broadcasting what you write over the air, including your 
passwords.



& how to fix it? Thanks!


Very simple: Use a wired keyboard.





I just got my new Cherry wireless keyboards delivered. And then I read 
about Mousejack.


The keyboard communications are encrypted, and both mouse and keyboard 
are rechargeable. But I at least have to check with Cherry support to 
learn whether or not my new toys are vulnerable. I suspect that they are.


Dangit.

Though the keyboard had nice action, and the mouse was at least okay, 
they did suffer from intermittent loss of communication with the systems 
we were using them on.


Back to the cheap wired Dell clackity keyboard and the rather nice wired 
Microsoft comfort mouse.

Re: What tool can I use to make efficient incremental backups?

[Celejar]

On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 02:05:46 -0400
Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 19 August 2017 23:07:01 Celejar wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 11:47:34 -0500
> >
> > Mario Castelán Castro  wrote:
> > > Hello.
> > >
> > > Currently I use rsync to make the backups of my personal data,
> > > including some manually selected important files of system
> > > configuration. I keep old backups to be more safe from the scenario
> > > where I have deleted something important, I make a backup, and I
> > > only notice the deletion afterwards.
> > >
> > > Each backup snapshot is stored in its own directory. There is much
> > > redundancy between subsequent backups. I use the option
> > > "--link-dest" to make hard links and thus save space for files that
> > > are *identical* to an already-existing file in the backup
> > > repository. but this is still inefficient. Any change to a file,
> > > even to its metadata (permission, modification time, etc.), will
> > > result in the file being saved at whole, instead of a delta.
> > >
> > > Can you suggest a more efficient alternative?
> >
> > There's Borg, which apparently has good deduplication. I've just
> > started using it, but it's a very sophisticated and quite popular
> > piece of software, judging by chatter in various internet threads.
> >
> > https://borgbackup.readthedocs.io/en/stable/
> >
> > Celejar

> Amanda has quite intelligent ways to do that. I run it nightly and have 

[Snipped lots of miscellaneous, but seemingly irrelevant, discussion about 
Amanda's virtues.]

Amanda does deduplication? Link?

Celejar

Re: Debian v9 it's a stretch

[Ben Finney]

Borden Rhodes  writes:

> I was very surprised when they released Stretch as I didn't find
> anything 'stable' about the packages that I was using.

My reply was primarily addressing that statement: you were surprised
that Stretch, with the problems you describe, was released.


Borden Rhodes  writes:

> Thank you for your response, Ben,
>
> > What response did you get to the bug reports you filed from the
> > problems you encountered?
>
> One example includes an X regression […] To my knowledge, it's still
> broken in testing […] (#863532).

Thanks. Do you have an understanding, from that discussion, why that
specific bug remained unresolved in Stretch?


> Then there are the issues with the upgrade to KDE 5, which aren't
> Debian's fault […] These are all upstream bugs that I've tried to
> report.

Are there bug reports in Debian that would show why the package should
not be released with those bugs?

> Ironically, both reportbug and reportbug-ng are broken on my system!
> The former's GTK interface doesn't load

Sorry to learn that. Does the text-only interface work well enough to
report bugs?

> I also ran into an issue […] I just uninstalled them and continued on.

I think you can see from that, why the Debian release team can't be
expected to know that a package is unsuitable for release, if people's
experience with a bug are not recorded in a bug report :-)

-- 
 \   “A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of |
  `\   widths.” —Steven Wright |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney

Re: Debian v9 it's a stretch

[Borden Rhodes]

Thank you for your response, Ben,

> What response did you get to the bug reports you filed from the problems you 
> encountered?

One example includes an X regression that caused it to wait upwards of
8 minutes searching for my laptop's touchscreen. The bug was caused by
a typo where, instead of waiting 250 milliseconds to detect a serial
device, it waits 250 seconds. To my knowledge, it's still broken in
testing and I've worked around it by uninstalling the
xserver-xorg-input-wacom driver (#863532).

Then there are the issues with the upgrade to KDE 5, which aren't
Debian's fault but still make KDE pretty unstable. A lot of features
have been removed and other things just plain don't work. These are
all upstream bugs that I've tried to report.

Ironically, both reportbug and reportbug-ng are broken on my system!
The former's GTK interface doesn't load and the latter URL-safe
encodes all the text (#594217), so all you get is a bunch of gibberish
and a rejection from the BTS.

I also ran into an issue where live-boot and/or live-config suddenly
prevented my system from booting (I make images for USB installs),
despite https://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/ saying that there's no
harm to installing them. I just uninstalled them and continued on.

Re: Debian v9 it's a stretch

[tony mollica]

Thanks for the replies.  I'll maybe try another clean install and see 
what happens.




On 08/21/2017 01:06 PM, Borden Rhodes wrote:

Hey Tony,

I had lots of problems with Stretch when it was in testing. A lot of
packages (KDE, X drivers, and the kernel come immediately to mind)
have manageable but irritating upstream regressions that didn't get
patched or backported in time for the release.

I was very surprised when they released Stretch as I didn't find
anything 'stable' about the packages that I was using. Therefore, I've
stayed on the testing branch where many of the problems are slowly
getting fixed.

In terms of stability, I think Debian is one of the better distros
you'll get. Other distros achieve greater stability but suffer from
MacOS syndrome: the distro works only if you stick to the limited set
of features explicitly designed into the distro. There are
fixed-release-cycle distros like Ubuntu that seem to be perpetually
broken - you report a bug in a release and get told it'll be fixed in
the next release six months from now. Assuming that it's fixed in the
next release, you have a whole new set of bugs to deal with, and the
cycle continues.

In my 13 years of Linux experience, I keep coming back to Debian. It's
not perfect, but it hasn't ruined my life... yet.

USB wireless keyboard in stretch

[Alle Meije Wink]

After upgrading from Jessie to Stretch, my wireless Logitech keyboard (with
USB bluetooth receiver) has stopped working in a normal login.

First it did not even work in the grub menu, but after a session with a
normal USB keyboard the wireless one is picked up there again.

And then in recovery mode the wireless keyboard works too. First it says

[ sec.microsec]
hidraw: raw HID events driver (C) Jiri Kosina

and finds the usbcore and usbhid drivers. Then it correctly identifies the
the keyboard as Logitech K400, finding various inputs and components.

Then, when I start typing at

Give root password for maintenance
(or type Control-D to continue)

it says

[ sec.microsec] logitech-hidpp-device 0003:0460:4024:0006: HID++ device
connected.

If I type the root password I can keep typing and (after starting dhclient)
do normal command line things.

But if I type Control-D -or if I had not used recovery mode in the first
place- then I go to an X session (xfce4 on lightdm) and have no keyboard
control, neither with the wireless K400 or the old fashioned one (not super
familiar with xfce4 key bindings so the mouse pad on the wireless keyboard
is handy!)

Does anyone understand the cause of this problem & how to fix it? Thanks!

Re: apt-get: Why "Unable to find source package" errors?

[Brian]

On Mon 21 Aug 2017 at 17:02:44 -0400, Kynn Jones wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 6:34 AM, Darac Marjal 
> wrote:
> 
> > What happens if you try to get the source package directly?
> >
> > % apt-get source emacs25
 
> I get exactly the same error.

deb.debian.org does not have packages itself but looks for suitable
places to get the package for you. Maybe it is finding somewhere which
does not have what you want. Try replacing deb.debian.org with somewhere
else in /etc/apt/sources.list.

-- 
Brian.

Re: apt-get: Why "Unable to find source package" errors?

[Kynn Jones]

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 6:34 AM, Darac Marjal 
wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 08:08:07PM -0400, Kynn Jones wrote:
>
>>   Example:
>>
>>   % sudo apt-get build-dep emacs25
>>   Reading package lists... Done
>>   E: Unable to find a source package for emacs25
>>
>>   I have run `apt-get update` before running the command above, and my
>> `/etc/apt/sources.list` file contains the following
>>
>>   deb  [1]http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch main contrib non-free
>>   deb-src  [2]http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch main contrib
>> non-free
>>
>>   deb  [3]http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch-updates main contrib
>> non-free
>>   deb-src  [4]http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch-updates main
>> contrib non-free
>>
>>   deb [5]http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib
>> non-free
>>   deb-src [6]http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main
>> contrib non-free
>>
>>   What am I doing wrong?
>>
>
> What happens if you try to get the source package directly?
>
> % apt-get source emacs25
>


I get exactly the same error.

Re: Estacion segura

[Javi]

Hola Roberto, buen día.

En que aspecto te refieres a seguridad?

+ Fisica

+ Software



El 21/08/17 a las 12:50, R Calleja escribió:
> Buenas tardes, soy usuario de debian 8.9 desde hace 2 años.
> Tengo problemas de seguridad que me obligan a reinstalar el sistema a
> menudo, una vez al año.
> He leido documentos y ayuda para mejorar la seguridad.
> Pero no soy un usuario con conocimientos avanzados de sistemas.
> Mi objetivo es conseguir una estacion de trabajo segura .
> He conocido herramientas como:
> Lynis, openval, nessus, grsecurity,apparmor, selinux, etc
> Si puede alguien con conocimientos de seguridad  ayudarme. O hay
> alguna empresa que de soporte. Pueden decirme condiciones economicas.
> Muchas gracias, Roberto

Re: Debian v9 it's a stretch

[Ben Finney]

Borden Rhodes  writes:

> I had lots of problems with Stretch when it was in testing.

Thank you for running the ‘testing’ suite. The problems you encountered
are an important part of having people run that suite; you can then
report those problems in the Debian bug tracking system, so that the
package maintainers have enough information to correct the package
*before* release.

What response did you get to the bug reports you filed from the problems
you encountered?

> I was very surprised when they released Stretch

The release managers will use the Debian BTS to determine whether
packages should remain in Debian for the release.

Did the bug reports you made get addressed? Which packages still had
Debian bug reports unresolved when Stretch was released?

-- 
 \   “Whenever you read a good book, it's like the author is right |
  `\   there, in the room talking to you, which is why I don't like to |
_o__)   read good books.” —Jack Handey |
Ben Finney

Re: W: Failed to fetch [..] The following signatures were invalid: [..]

[Brad Rogers]

On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:55:57 +
"Cecile, Adam"  wrote:

Hello Adam,

>Can you try with the cloudera address ?

Interesting;  It failed here too.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
No rotten apple's gonna spoil my fun
Get The Funk Out - Extreme


pgpRbowkN2ezo.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Using preseed (Debian/Ubuntu) to partition both RAID and encryption

[Andre Goree]

I am trying to configure a preseed image using RAID + encryption. I 
originally wanted to do this without LVM, however it does not seem (at 
least with encryption) that this is possible. I simply want to know if 
this is even possible via preseed -- that is, to have both RAID and 
encryption partitioned. All the documentation I'm seeing states (from 
what I can tell) that you can only have either RAID _or_ encryption. I'm 
not seeing any way to preseed both.


I've attached the disk configuration portions of the preseeds I've used 
to provision LVM+RAID (with some success, seem to have an issue booting 
after that but I'm sure that's something I can overcome -- the RAID and 
LVM are configured when I boot into rescue mode after an install using 
the attached preseed conf) and LVM+encryption (with this conf, grub has 
a hard time installing but I'm sure I could work around that as well).


I suppose, I'm trying to meld the two, and I've tried a few different 
combinations but not have worked out. Essentially, I believe you can 
have only either partman-auto/method string crypt or partman-auto/method 
string raid but not both. Can anyone confirm or deny this for me? Thanks 
in advance.



--
Andre Goree
-=-=-=-=-=-
Email - andre at drenet.net
Website   - http://www.drenet.net
PGP key   - http://www.drenet.net/pubkey.txt
-=-=-=-=-=-### Disk Configuration
d-i partman-auto/disk string /dev/sda /dev/sdb /dev/sdc /dev/sdd /dev/sde 
/dev/sdf
d-i partman-auto/method string crypto
d-i partman-lvm/device_remove_lvm boolean true
d-i partman-lvm/confirm boolean true
d-i partman-auto-lvm/guided_size string max
d-i partman-auto-lvm/new_vg_name string crypt
d-i partman-auto/disk string /dev/sda /dev/sdb /dev/sdc /dev/sdd /dev/sde 
/dev/sdf
d-i partman-auto/choose_recipe select root-encrypted
d-i partman-auto/expert_recipe string \
  root-encrypted ::   \
  1000 1000 1000 ext3\
  $primary{ } $bootable{ }\
  method{ format } format{ }  \
  use_filesystem{ } filesystem{ ext4 }\
  mountpoint{ /boot } \
  .   \
  500 1 10 ext4   \
  $lvmok{ } lv_name{ root }   \
  in_vg { crypt } \
  $primary{ } \
  method{ format } format{ }  \
  use_filesystem{ } filesystem{ ext4 }\
  mountpoint{ / } \
  .   

d-i partman-md/device_remove_md boolean true
d-i partman-basicfilesystems/no_mount_point boolean false
d-i partman-partitioning/confirm_write_new_label boolean true
d-i partman/choose_partition select finish
d-i partman/confirm boolean true
d-i partman/confirm_nooverwrite boolean true### Disk Configuration
d-i partman-auto/disk string /dev/sda /dev/sdb /dev/sdc /dev/sdd /dev/sde 
/dev/sdf
d-i partman-auto/method string raid
d-i partman-lvm/device_remove_lvm boolean true
d-i partman-md/device_remove_md boolean true
d-i partman-lvm/confirm boolean true
d-i partman-auto/choose_recipe select boot-root
d-i partman-auto-lvm/new_vg_name string vg00
d-i partman-auto-lvm/guided_size string 30GB
d-i partman-auto/expert_recipe string\
   boot-root ::  \
 1024 1024 1024 raid   \
$lvmignore{ }\
$primary{ } method{ raid }   \
 .   \
 1000 35 1 raid  \
$lvmignore{ }\
$primary{ } method{ raid }   \
 .   \
 19000 50 2 ext4 \
$defaultignore{ }\
$lvmok{ }\
lv_name{ root }  \
method{ format } \
format{ }\
use_filesystem{ }\
filesystem{ ext4 }   \
mountpoint{ / }  \
.
d-i partman-auto-raid/recipe string \
10 6 0 ext4 /boot\
  /dev/sda1#/dev/sdb1#/dev/sdc1#/dev/sdd1#/dev/sde1#/dev/sdf1  \
.   \
10 6 0 lvm - \
  /dev/sda2#/dev/sdb2#/dev/sdc2#/dev/sdd2#/dev/sde2#/dev/sdf2   \
.
d-i mdadm/boot_degraded boolean false
d-i partman-md/confirm boolean true
d-i 

Re: Debian v9 it's a stretch

[Borden Rhodes]

Hey Tony,

I had lots of problems with Stretch when it was in testing. A lot of
packages (KDE, X drivers, and the kernel come immediately to mind)
have manageable but irritating upstream regressions that didn't get
patched or backported in time for the release.

I was very surprised when they released Stretch as I didn't find
anything 'stable' about the packages that I was using. Therefore, I've
stayed on the testing branch where many of the problems are slowly
getting fixed.

In terms of stability, I think Debian is one of the better distros
you'll get. Other distros achieve greater stability but suffer from
MacOS syndrome: the distro works only if you stick to the limited set
of features explicitly designed into the distro. There are
fixed-release-cycle distros like Ubuntu that seem to be perpetually
broken - you report a bug in a release and get told it'll be fixed in
the next release six months from now. Assuming that it's fixed in the
next release, you have a whole new set of bugs to deal with, and the
cycle continues.

In my 13 years of Linux experience, I keep coming back to Debian. It's
not perfect, but it hasn't ruined my life... yet.

Re: Relocated Header Directories

[Dutch Ingraham]

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 09:55:18PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 02:12:05PM -0500, Dutch Ingraham wrote:
> > On 08/21/2017 09:06 AM, Kushal Kumaran wrote:
> > > Dutch Ingraham  writes:
> > >
> > >> Hi everyone -
> > >>
> > >> It seems Debian has moved some header directories, like 
> > >> /usr/include/bits (and
> > >> sys, and asm, etc.) from /usr/include/ to, e.g., 
> > >> /usr/include/i386-linux-gnu/bits/
> > >> (arch-specific).
> > >>
> > >> My first question is:  Why?
> > >>
> > > This is so that headers that are architecture independent are separated
> > > from headers with are architecture dependent.  Specifically, that they
> > > are available at different paths.  This lets you install the headers
> > > (and libraries) for different architectures simultaneously, which is
> > > essential for debian's multiarch support.
> > Thanks for the response.  Since both you and Tomas are saying the same
> > thing,
> > maybe I'm not understanding something.  For example, Fedora (and Gentoo,
> > etc. )
> > also installs glibc for both 32- and 64-bit on the same machine, but
> > they have not
> > relocated these header files.  So are you saying this was just Debian's
> > method
> > of solving the multi-arch issue, and other distributions solved in some
> > other way?
> 
> Exactly. In RH, the "default" is under /usr/lib, /usr/include, in Debian,
> there's for every installed architecture /usr/*/$ARCH. This provides an
> uniform structure, independent of the "default" arch. The change is a bit
> more difficult, but the result is cleaner, as far as I understand.

Excellent!  Thanks.

> 
> This eases co-installing cross compilers for other architectures too,
> 
> > >> My second question is: How does this work?  There are no symlinks, yet a 
> > >> file
> > >> like /usr/include/signal.h, has the standard "#include ", 
> > >> yet
> > >> that path does not exist with the change noted above.  So how is this 
> > >> file
> > >> included?
> > >>
> > >> Any enlightenment is appreciated.
> > > There are several directories configured for searching header files.
> > > The command "gcc -xc -E -v - < /dev/null" will print those paths out.
> > > For my system, the directories are:
> > >
> > >  /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/6/include
> > >  /usr/local/include
> > >  /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/6/include-fixed
> > >  /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu
> > >  /usr/include
> > >
> > > The list will be different for you because you appear to be running
> > > i386.
> > I'm not seeing some of these paths in vanilla gcc.  Does this mean
> > Debian patched
> > gcc as well to add the "Debian" path of /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/ ?
> 
> I think it is a configuration option when building gcc and friends.

OK - this answers my questions - thanks again!

> 
> Cheers
> -- tomás
> 

Re: Relocated Header Directories

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 02:12:05PM -0500, Dutch Ingraham wrote:
> On 08/21/2017 09:06 AM, Kushal Kumaran wrote:
> > Dutch Ingraham  writes:
> >
> >> Hi everyone -
> >>
> >> It seems Debian has moved some header directories, like /usr/include/bits 
> >> (and
> >> sys, and asm, etc.) from /usr/include/ to, e.g., 
> >> /usr/include/i386-linux-gnu/bits/
> >> (arch-specific).
> >>
> >> My first question is:  Why?
> >>
> > This is so that headers that are architecture independent are separated
> > from headers with are architecture dependent.  Specifically, that they
> > are available at different paths.  This lets you install the headers
> > (and libraries) for different architectures simultaneously, which is
> > essential for debian's multiarch support.
> Thanks for the response.  Since both you and Tomas are saying the same
> thing,
> maybe I'm not understanding something.  For example, Fedora (and Gentoo,
> etc. )
> also installs glibc for both 32- and 64-bit on the same machine, but
> they have not
> relocated these header files.  So are you saying this was just Debian's
> method
> of solving the multi-arch issue, and other distributions solved in some
> other way?

Exactly. In RH, the "default" is under /usr/lib, /usr/include, in Debian,
there's for every installed architecture /usr/*/$ARCH. This provides an
uniform structure, independent of the "default" arch. The change is a bit
more difficult, but the result is cleaner, as far as I understand.

This eases co-installing cross compilers for other architectures too,

> >> My second question is: How does this work?  There are no symlinks, yet a 
> >> file
> >> like /usr/include/signal.h, has the standard "#include ", 
> >> yet
> >> that path does not exist with the change noted above.  So how is this file
> >> included?
> >>
> >> Any enlightenment is appreciated.
> > There are several directories configured for searching header files.
> > The command "gcc -xc -E -v - < /dev/null" will print those paths out.
> > For my system, the directories are:
> >
> >  /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/6/include
> >  /usr/local/include
> >  /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/6/include-fixed
> >  /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu
> >  /usr/include
> >
> > The list will be different for you because you appear to be running
> > i386.
> I'm not seeing some of these paths in vanilla gcc.  Does this mean
> Debian patched
> gcc as well to add the "Debian" path of /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/ ?

I think it is a configuration option when building gcc and friends.

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: No ifconfig

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 21 August 2017 14:05:48 Christian Seiler wrote:

> On 08/21/2017 07:40 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > I'll have to study up on this "binding" and how its done.
>
> Note that that's something a program can do if it wants to, but not
> something you can generically configure (though individual programs
> might offer you configuration options for this), and most programs
> that make outgoing connections don't bind the outgoing socket
> because they don't care about which IP their packets originate from
> and are happy to use the OS's defaults.
>
> In case you want a pointer on how this works from a programming
> perspective, I can always recommend Richard Stevens's book UNIX
> Network Programming (_the_ book about this topic), and the manpage
> of the bind syscall (section 2; man 2 bind) is also a possible
> starting point.
>
> Regards,
> Christian

Thank you Christian. I am up to my lower jaw in other commitments till 
much later today before I can follow up on the latter.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Relocated Header Directories

[Dutch Ingraham]

On 08/21/2017 09:06 AM, Kushal Kumaran wrote:
> Dutch Ingraham  writes:
>
>> Hi everyone -
>>
>> It seems Debian has moved some header directories, like /usr/include/bits 
>> (and
>> sys, and asm, etc.) from /usr/include/ to, e.g., 
>> /usr/include/i386-linux-gnu/bits/
>> (arch-specific).
>>
>> My first question is:  Why?
>>
> This is so that headers that are architecture independent are separated
> from headers with are architecture dependent.  Specifically, that they
> are available at different paths.  This lets you install the headers
> (and libraries) for different architectures simultaneously, which is
> essential for debian's multiarch support.
Thanks for the response.  Since both you and Tomas are saying the same
thing,
maybe I'm not understanding something.  For example, Fedora (and Gentoo,
etc. )
also installs glibc for both 32- and 64-bit on the same machine, but
they have not
relocated these header files.  So are you saying this was just Debian's
method
of solving the multi-arch issue, and other distributions solved in some
other way?
>
>> My second question is: How does this work?  There are no symlinks, yet a file
>> like /usr/include/signal.h, has the standard "#include ", yet
>> that path does not exist with the change noted above.  So how is this file
>> included?
>>
>> Any enlightenment is appreciated.
> There are several directories configured for searching header files.
> The command "gcc -xc -E -v - < /dev/null" will print those paths out.
> For my system, the directories are:
>
>  /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/6/include
>  /usr/local/include
>  /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/6/include-fixed
>  /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu
>  /usr/include
>
> The list will be different for you because you appear to be running
> i386.
I'm not seeing some of these paths in vanilla gcc.  Does this mean
Debian patched
gcc as well to add the "Debian" path of /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/ ?

Thanks again to you and Tomas for your responses.

Re: [KDE5] Icônes manquantes dans Dolphin

[maderios]

On 08/21/2017 07:46 PM, MERLIN Philippe wrote:

Moi de même un dist-upgrade enlève 150 paquets et cela dure depuis 4
jours.
Un avertissement donné dans la liste kde indiquait qu"une nouvelle version de
QT arrivait et qu'il était conseillé de faire seulement des upgrade , cette
situation j'espère ne va pas trop durer, c'est quand même assez rare  dans le
monde Debian.


Bonjour
KDE est dans les choux depuis un moment et ce, pour toutes les distro. 
Ce n'est pas un hasard si le dev principal de Digikam, Gilles Caulier, a 
supprimé les trois  quarts des dépendances kde au profit de qt5 et il 
veut même aller plus loin...


--
Maderios

Re: Relocated Header Directories

[Dutch Ingraham]

On 08/21/2017 09:02 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 08:37:14AM -0500, Dutch Ingraham wrote:
>> Hi everyone -
>>
>> It seems Debian has moved some header directories, like /usr/include/bits 
>> (and
>> sys, and asm, etc.) from /usr/include/ to, e.g., 
>> /usr/include/i386-linux-gnu/bits/
>> (arch-specific).
>>
>> My first question is:  Why?
> Multi-arch. These days you can have libraries (and the corresponding
> headers) for several architectures co-installed on your system.
>
> Start here:
>
>   https://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch
Thanks for your response and the link.  I'll respond more fully to the other
reply in this thread since they are both so similar.
>
>> My second question is: How does this work?  There are no symlinks, yet a file
>> like /usr/include/signal.h, has the standard "#include ", yet
>> that path does not exist with the change noted above.  So how is this file
>> included?
> Your compiler should know which architecture is relevant and set the default
> include directories (can't look it up now to be sure, sorry).
>
> Cheers
> - -- tomás
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>
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> YloAnREMU31YSlj/GrO3/Yv/u/bAQ1lP
> =DdkG
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>

Re: i386 executables on amd64?

[Gary Dale]

On 21/08/17 09:29 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 06:01:03PM -0700, John Conover wrote:

I inherited a project to install a pile of C code, compiled and
running on Debian Wheezy i386 machine, to a Debian jessie amd64
machine.

Astonishingly, most of the Wheezy i386 executables run on the Jessie
amd64 machine, (which came with the project.)

Is this to be expected?

Sounds like whoever set up the jessie machine already set up this:



Perhaps, or perhaps the i386 executables were statically linked.

Re: Buster: problem changing partition size on a RAID 5 array

[Gary Dale]

On 20/08/17 10:04 AM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:

Le 15/08/2017 à 21:47, Gary Dale a écrit :


That still sounds like a bug. If I did a DD from a smaller to a 
larger hard disk then used gdisk, I'd expect it to see the new drive 
size and handle it correctly.


Gdisk does handle it correctly. It just does not correct it 
automatically. If you ask to write the partition table, gdisk will ask 
if you want to correct it. If you ask to verify the disk, it will 
display the discrepancy and suggest how to correct it.


I guess it is because gdisk is designed to give full control to the 
user, unlike parted and Gparted. I like it for this.




If I went to a Doctor, I wouldn't expect to have to prompt him to find 
out if he thought there was a problem.


Gparted flags that there is an error while gdisk expects you to notice 
it. Gparted offers a solution. Gdisk just sits there waiting for you to 
learn enough to find out how to fix it. Both offer the same control. The 
difference is that gparted does it in a friendlier manner.

Re: Debian v9 it's a stretch

[Mario Castelán Castro]

On 2017-08-21 09:08 -0700 tony mollica  wrote:
>I don't usually complain about free stuff but, for me, stretch has 
>become a distant back-runner to previous releases.  Jessie was fast and 
>everything worked.  Stretch has become a day to day challenge for even 
>minor issues.  Going back or changing dists.
>
>I'd like to know if others have the same issue or is it my particular 
>installation, which was a new, clean install to a new disk.

I made a fresh install too and I have not had any major problem.

Something that stopped working (apparently because of the change
to libinput) is changing "Device Accel Constant Deceleration" with xinput
to make the cursor slower. But now I use “Coordinate Transformation
Matrix“ for the same effect.

-- 
Do not eat animals, respect them as you respect people.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+to+(become+OR+eat)+vegan


pgptQ9_XgHQM7.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: No ifconfig

[Christian Seiler]

On 08/21/2017 07:40 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> I'll have to study up on this "binding" and how its done.

Note that that's something a program can do if it wants to, but not
something you can generically configure (though individual programs
might offer you configuration options for this), and most programs
that make outgoing connections don't bind the outgoing socket
because they don't care about which IP their packets originate from
and are happy to use the OS's defaults.

In case you want a pointer on how this works from a programming
perspective, I can always recommend Richard Stevens's book UNIX
Network Programming (_the_ book about this topic), and the manpage
of the bind syscall (section 2; man 2 bind) is also a possible
starting point.

Regards,
Christian

Estacion segura

[R Calleja]

Buenas tardes, soy usuario de debian 8.9 desde hace 2 años.
Tengo problemas de seguridad que me obligan a reinstalar el sistema a
menudo, una vez al año.
He leido documentos y ayuda para mejorar la seguridad.
Pero no soy un usuario con conocimientos avanzados de sistemas.
Mi objetivo es conseguir una estacion de trabajo segura .
He conocido herramientas como:
Lynis, openval, nessus, grsecurity,apparmor, selinux, etc
Si puede alguien con conocimientos de seguridad  ayudarme. O hay alguna
empresa que de soporte. Pueden decirme condiciones economicas.
Muchas gracias, Roberto

Re: [KDE5] Icônes manquantes dans Dolphin

[MERLIN Philippe]

Moi de même un dist-upgrade enlève 150 paquets et cela dure depuis 4 
jours.
Un avertissement donné dans la liste kde indiquait qu"une nouvelle version de 
QT arrivait et qu'il était conseillé de faire seulement des upgrade , cette 
situation j'espère ne va pas trop durer, c'est quand même assez rare  dans le 
monde Debian.
Philippe Merlin



Le lundi 21 août 2017, 19:26:30 CEST nicolas.patr...@gmail.com a écrit :

> Chez moi (Debian Sid), j’ai un gros conflit de versions dans KDE5 entre 5.7
> et 5.9 (58 paquets sont en attente de mise à jour).
> 
> nicolas patrois : pts noir asocial

Re: No ifconfig

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 21 August 2017 13:19:11 Christian Seiler wrote:

> On 08/21/2017 07:07 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Monday 21 August 2017 12:11:38 Christian Seiler wrote:
> >> On 08/21/2017 05:03 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >> iface eth0 inet static
> >>   address 192.168.0.1/24
> >>   address 192.168.0.42/24
> >>   address 10.5.6.7/8
> >>
> >> This will work, and it will assign all IPs to the interface (the
> >> first one being the primary and the source IP of outgoing packets
> >> where the program doesn't explicitly bind anything). And "ip a"
> >> will show all three addresses, but "ifconfig -a" will only show the
> >> first.
> >
> > Ok, but then how do you differentiate between the addresses without
> > the :1 [:2 etc] notation?
>
> I don't understand the question? Where do you want to specify an
> address? When removing the address you just say "remove address XYZ
> from interface ABC".
>
> > It doesn't seem right that is would bang all the assigned addresses
> > with duplicate data.
>
> I don't get what you mean here. What is duplicate? If you open an
> outgoing connection by default the primary (first) IP that matches
> the outgoing subnet will be used as the source IP for that
> connection - but a program can override that by binding the socket
> to any of the other IPs of that interface.
>
I'll have to study up on this "binding" and how its done.

> In the above example: any connection to 192.168.0.23 will by default
> carry the source IP 192.168.0.1, and any connection to 10.1.1.1 will
> by default carry the source IP 10.5.6.7. An application can create
> an outgoing connection with source IP 192.168.0.42 by explicitly
> binding the socket to that IP before making the connection.
>
> Which is kind of similar to alias interfaces: with alias interfaces
> the route metric of the alias interfaces relative to each other
> defines what IP will be used by default, but again it is possible
> for an application to override that by binding the socket to a
> specific IP address.
>
> And incoming connections are trivial anyway in these setups.
>
> From the point of view of applications that just use the socket layer
> (and don't care about network interface names) the system will react
> in the same way whether you use multiple addresses per interface or
> whether you use alias interfaces. The main differences are in how it
> is configured and how the kernel code works.
>
> Regards,
> Christian

This has been an enlightening discussion, Christian, thank you for your 
time.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re : [KDE5] Icônes manquantes dans Dolphin

[nicolas . patrois]

Le 21/08/2017 15:16:58, bernard.schoenac...@free.fr a écrit :

> serait il possible de connaître le sources.list (?) 
> et la liste des paquets installés ayant trait à kde ? 

Chez moi (Debian Sid), j’ai un gros conflit de versions dans KDE5 entre 5.7 et 
5.9 (58 paquets sont en attente de mise à jour).

nicolas patrois : pts noir asocial
-- 
RÉALISME

M : Qu'est-ce qu'il nous faudrait pour qu'on nous considère comme des humains ? 
Un cerveau plus gros ?
P : Non... Une carte bleue suffirait...

Re: No ifconfig

[Christian Seiler]

On 08/21/2017 07:07 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Monday 21 August 2017 12:11:38 Christian Seiler wrote:
> 
>> On 08/21/2017 05:03 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> iface eth0 inet static
>>   address 192.168.0.1/24
>>   address 192.168.0.42/24
>>   address 10.5.6.7/8
>>
>> This will work, and it will assign all IPs to the interface (the first
>> one being the primary and the source IP of outgoing packets where the
>> program doesn't explicitly bind anything). And "ip a" will show all
>> three addresses, but "ifconfig -a" will only show the first.
>>
> Ok, but then how do you differentiate between the addresses without 
> the :1 [:2 etc] notation?

I don't understand the question? Where do you want to specify an
address? When removing the address you just say "remove address XYZ
from interface ABC".

> It doesn't seem right that is would bang all the assigned addresses with 
> duplicate data.

I don't get what you mean here. What is duplicate? If you open an
outgoing connection by default the primary (first) IP that matches
the outgoing subnet will be used as the source IP for that
connection - but a program can override that by binding the socket
to any of the other IPs of that interface.

In the above example: any connection to 192.168.0.23 will by default
carry the source IP 192.168.0.1, and any connection to 10.1.1.1 will
by default carry the source IP 10.5.6.7. An application can create
an outgoing connection with source IP 192.168.0.42 by explicitly
binding the socket to that IP before making the connection.

Which is kind of similar to alias interfaces: with alias interfaces
the route metric of the alias interfaces relative to each other
defines what IP will be used by default, but again it is possible
for an application to override that by binding the socket to a
specific IP address.

And incoming connections are trivial anyway in these setups.

>From the point of view of applications that just use the socket layer
(and don't care about network interface names) the system will react
in the same way whether you use multiple addresses per interface or
whether you use alias interfaces. The main differences are in how it
is configured and how the kernel code works.

Regards,
Christian

Re: No ifconfig

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 21 August 2017 12:11:38 Christian Seiler wrote:

> On 08/21/2017 05:03 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Monday 21 August 2017 09:08:11 Christian Seiler wrote:
> >> 2. Can't add multiple IP addresses to the same interface and
> >> (worse) even if multiple IP addresses are assigned to the
> >> same interfaces it only shows the primary address
> >
> > I don't know as to how ifconfig sets it up, but its a piece of cake
> > to edit /etc/network/interfaces to do that. If I bring in a new
> > router, I uncomment this stanza in the interfaces file:
> > 
> > #auto eth0:1
> >
> > # to access reset to 192.168.0.1 routers/switches on the 2nd cat5
> > port #iface eth0:1 inet static
> > #address 192.168.0.3
> > #netmask 255.255.255.0
> > ==
> > giving me an address I can use to talk to and configure the new
> > router.
>
> Yeah, that's the old way of doing this via an alias interface. I was
> talking about the new-style way of doing so though.
>
> For example:
>
> auto eth0
>
> iface eth0 inet static
>   address 192.168.0.1/24
>   address 192.168.0.42/24
>   address 10.5.6.7/8
>
> This will work, and it will assign all IPs to the interface (the first
> one being the primary and the source IP of outgoing packets where the
> program doesn't explicitly bind anything). And "ip a" will show all
> three addresses, but "ifconfig -a" will only show the first.
>
Ok, but then how do you differentiate between the addresses without 
the :1 [:2 etc] notation?

It doesn't seem right that is would bang all the assigned addresses with 
duplicate data.
 
> Alias interfaes are kind of legacy, and while they still work, they do
> have a couple of drawbacks: they aren't really an own interface
> because they share options with the interface they are based on (which
> can be confusing if you want to change interface options), there is no
> way to automatically add a new IP to a given interface without probing
> first which aliases have already been "used up", the alias namespace
> is limited by both the max length of an interface name and the
> limitation of the alias part itself.

I haven't seen, or needed, one of the newer critters yet.  But I'll be 
interested in the details when it does jump the fence into my domain.

> But don't get me wrong: if it works for you with alias interfaces, I'm
> certainly not going to tell you to change that - because those also do
> work with the "ip" utility. The major issue I "ifconfig" has here is
> that it doesn't see the additional IP addresses of interfaces added by
> other tools - so that when you rely on ifconfig you _don't_ see the
> actual entire network configuration of the system, but only a part of
> it. So it's actually counter-productive when you're troubleshooting a
> system.
>
> >> (2) is really bad, especially the part where it does not show
> >> all of the IPs that were assigned by other tools, for example
> >
> > Huh? ifconfig doesn't even need a -a option to show me eth0:1 if ts
> > configured and up.
>
> Yes, for alias interfaces it does. For the additional IPs added to the
> interface itself it doesn't.
>
> >> NetworkManager, or Debian's own ifupdown via
> >> /etc/network/interfaces.
> >
> > Please don't equate those two.
>
> I was talking about how these configure multiple IPs when you use
> them. Both use the newer kernel interface that allows you to specify
> multiple IPs on the same interface, while ifconfig uses the old
> interface that assumes a single IP per interface. And I just used
> the most prominent programs in Debian as examples for this, but all
> other management tools I know of (conman, systemd-networkd, ...)
> also use the newer interface.
>
> I really didn't want to discuss the merits or problems of each
> individual software package.
>
> Regards,

Thank you, Christian

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Debian v9 it's a stretch

[deloptes]

tony mollica wrote:

> I'd like to know if others have the same issue or is it my particular
> installation, which was a new, clean install to a new disk.

No issues, even with new installation on new disk :)

As Greg wrote, please share the issues.

Going back - might be an option perhaps for the next 2-4y.
changing dists - you may face same on other dist as well

regards

Re: Debian v9 it's a stretch

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 09:08:55AM -0700, tony mollica wrote:
> I'd like to know if others have the same issue or is it my particular
> installation, which was a new, clean install to a new disk.

What issues?  You didn't say what's wrong.

For many desktop/laptop systems, the changes in the video drivers will
cause issues, until you add the appropriate non-free firmware.  This
applies even to systems which did not require the firmware under
jessie, because jessie used different drivers.

Re: No ifconfig

[Christian Seiler]

On 08/21/2017 05:03 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Monday 21 August 2017 09:08:11 Christian Seiler wrote:
>> 2. Can't add multiple IP addresses to the same interface and
>> (worse) even if multiple IP addresses are assigned to the
>> same interfaces it only shows the primary address
> 
> I don't know as to how ifconfig sets it up, but its a piece of cake to 
> edit /etc/network/interfaces to do that. If I bring in a new router, I 
> uncomment this stanza in the interfaces file:
> 
> #auto eth0:1
> 
> # to access reset to 192.168.0.1 routers/switches on the 2nd cat5 port
> #iface eth0:1 inet static
> #address 192.168.0.3
> #netmask 255.255.255.0
> ==
> giving me an address I can use to talk to and configure the new router.

Yeah, that's the old way of doing this via an alias interface. I was
talking about the new-style way of doing so though.

For example:

auto eth0

iface eth0 inet static
  address 192.168.0.1/24
  address 192.168.0.42/24
  address 10.5.6.7/8

This will work, and it will assign all IPs to the interface (the first
one being the primary and the source IP of outgoing packets where the
program doesn't explicitly bind anything). And "ip a" will show all
three addresses, but "ifconfig -a" will only show the first.

Alias interfaes are kind of legacy, and while they still work, they do
have a couple of drawbacks: they aren't really an own interface because
they share options with the interface they are based on (which can be
confusing if you want to change interface options), there is no way to
automatically add a new IP to a given interface without probing first
which aliases have already been "used up", the alias namespace is
limited by both the max length of an interface name and the limitation
of the alias part itself.

But don't get me wrong: if it works for you with alias interfaces, I'm
certainly not going to tell you to change that - because those also do
work with the "ip" utility. The major issue I "ifconfig" has here is
that it doesn't see the additional IP addresses of interfaces added by
other tools - so that when you rely on ifconfig you _don't_ see the
actual entire network configuration of the system, but only a part of
it. So it's actually counter-productive when you're troubleshooting a
system.

>> (2) is really bad, especially the part where it does not show
>> all of the IPs that were assigned by other tools, for example
> 
> Huh? ifconfig doesn't even need a -a option to show me eth0:1 if ts 
> configured and up.

Yes, for alias interfaces it does. For the additional IPs added to the
interface itself it doesn't.

>> NetworkManager, or Debian's own ifupdown via
>> /etc/network/interfaces.
> 
> Please don't equate those two.

I was talking about how these configure multiple IPs when you use
them. Both use the newer kernel interface that allows you to specify
multiple IPs on the same interface, while ifconfig uses the old
interface that assumes a single IP per interface. And I just used
the most prominent programs in Debian as examples for this, but all
other management tools I know of (conman, systemd-networkd, ...)
also use the newer interface.

I really didn't want to discuss the merits or problems of each
individual software package.

Regards,
Christian

Debian v9 it's a stretch

[tony mollica]

I don't usually complain about free stuff but, for me, stretch has 
become a distant back-runner to previous releases.  Jessie was fast and 
everything worked.  Stretch has become a day to day challenge for even 
minor issues.  Going back or changing dists.


I'd like to know if others have the same issue or is it my particular 
installation, which was a new, clean install to a new disk.


tjm

No multipath devices with 1360 iscsi devices

[Marco Weiß]

Dear debian users and developers,

i hope that is the right place to address my question. If not, tell me 
where i have to ask it. It's my first mail on such a list.


First a short description of my setup.

We have storage server with 85 discs. These discs are exported with 
iscsi. For iscsi targets we have to portals which exporting all 85 discs 
over 4 NICs. Every NIC has his own IP address. On the other side we have 
the initiator which is logging in over 4 NICs to every target IP 
address. Therefore we have 16 possibilities to connect to every single 
device of the target. These ends up in 1360 files under /dev/sd* .


Now i configured multipathd to create 85 dm devices each with 16 paths.

As long as i configured the system everything went well. Login to 
targets, creating device files in /dev and after restarting/reloading 
multipathd i got 85 multipath devices under /dev/mapper or in 
/dev/disc/by-id/


But after a reboot the system will not come back as i imagine. It boots, 
iscsi is started, but there are no multipath devices found. A single 
restart of the daemon or a reload of the multipath brings up all devices 
in seconds.


So my question is where and how do i have to dig into the system to get 
the point why the system will not load all the devices at boot time?


Our current workaround is a systemd script which starts after iscsi and 
waits for 120 seconds. After that it will do a reload of the multipath 
devices. And here we get reproducable our 85 /dev/mapper devices. If i 
set 60 seconds i will get 38 devices, next time of reboot 32 and another 
triy gives me 42 devices. Thats why i think it is a timing/reload 
problem. But i don't know how to fix that. Maybe udev comes to play too.


Here are, i hope completely, the configuration information of my system 
to get a first view what is configured.


### General inforamtion ###

debian_version 9.1 with latest updates

Linux vmsrv1 4.10.15-1-pve #1 SMP PVE 4.10.15-15 (Fri, 23 Jun 2017 
08:57:55 +0200) x86_64 GNU/Linux


### Network configuration ###

The 4 interfaces eno1-4 are the storage network interfaces. They are 
located in a VLAN with a HP 5406zl chassis switch.


auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

iface idrac inet manual

auto eno1
iface eno1 inet static
address  192.168.10.1
netmask  255.255.255.0
mtu 9000

auto eno2
iface eno2 inet static
address  192.168.10.2
netmask  255.255.255.0
mtu 9000

auto eno3
iface eno3 inet static
address  192.168.10.3
netmask  255.255.255.0
mtu 9000

auto eno4
iface eno4 inet static
address  192.168.10.4
netmask  255.255.255.0
mtu 9000

iface enp130s0f0 inet manual

iface enp130s0f1 inet manual

iface enp130s0f2 inet manual

iface enp130s0f3 inet manual

iface enp4s0f0 inet manual

iface enp4s0f1 inet manual

iface enp4s0f2 inet manual

iface enp4s0f3 inet manual

auto bond0
iface bond0 inet manual
  slaves enp4s0f0 enp4s0f1 enp4s0f2 enp4s0f3 enp130s0f0 enp130s0f1 
enp130s0f2 enp130s0f3

  bond_miimon 100
  bond_mode 802.3ad
  bond_xmit_hash_policy layer2+3

auto vmbr0
iface vmbr0 inet static
address  192.168.103.31
netmask  255.255.255.0
gateway  192.168.103.254
bridge_ports bond0
bridge_stp off
bridge_fd 0

### Changes to the default iscsid.conf ###

diff /etc/iscsi/iscsid.conf.orig /etc/iscsi/iscsid.conf
43c43
< node.startup = manual
---
> node.startup = automatic
97c97
< node.session.timeo.replacement_timeout = 120
---
> node.session.timeo.replacement_timeout = 0
108c108
< node.conn[0].timeo.noop_out_interval = 5
---
> node.conn[0].timeo.noop_out_interval = 1
114c114
< node.conn[0].timeo.noop_out_timeout = 5
---
> node.conn[0].timeo.noop_out_timeout = 1

### iscsi configuration and first login ###

sed -i '/InitiatorName=/c\InitiatorName=iqn.2017-07.local.ocm.vmsrv1' 
/etc/iscsi/initiatorname.iscsi

systemctl enable open-iscsi.service
systemctl restart open-iscsi.service
systemctl restart iscsid

iscsiadm -m iface -I eno1 -o new
iscsiadm -m iface -I eno2 -o new
iscsiadm -m iface -I eno3 -o new
iscsiadm -m iface -I eno4 -o new
iscsiadm -m iface -I eno1 --op=update -n iface.net_ifacename -v eno1
iscsiadm -m iface -I eno2 --op=update -n iface.net_ifacename -v eno2
iscsiadm -m iface -I eno3 --op=update -n iface.net_ifacename -v eno3
iscsiadm -m iface -I eno4 --op=update -n iface.net_ifacename -v eno4
iscsiadm -m discovery -t sendtargets -p 192.168.10.9
iscsiadm -m discovery -t sendtargets -p 192.168.10.10
iscsiadm -m discovery -t sendtargets -p 192.168.10.11
iscsiadm -m discovery -t sendtargets -p 192.168.10.12
iscsiadm -m node -l

iscsiadm -m session
tcp: [1] 192.168.10.10:3260,1 iqn.2017-07.local.ocm.vmstorage1 (non-flash)
tcp: [10] 192.168.10.9:3260,1 iqn.2017-07.local.ocm.vmstorage1 (non-flash)
tcp: [11] 192.168.10.9:3260,1 iqn.2017-07.local.ocm.vmstorage1 (non-flash)
tcp: [12] 192.168.10.9:3260,1 iqn.2017-07.local.ocm.vmstorage1 (non-flash)
tcp: [13] 192.168.10.11:3260,1 

Re: No ifconfig

[Eike Lantzsch]

On Monday, 21 August 2017 15:08:11 -04 Christian Seiler wrote:
> Am 2017-08-21 14:50, schrieb Greg Wooledge:
> > [missing features in ifconfig]
> > (Like Gene, I don't even know what those featues *are*.)
> 
>  From my personal experience, the following two things are
> features I'm actually using regularly and that don't work
> with it:
> 
> 1. IPv6 doesn't really work properly (as explained elsewhere
> by other people in this thread)
> 2. Can't add multiple IP addresses to the same interface and
> (worse) even if multiple IP addresses are assigned to the
> same interfaces it only shows the primary address

Yes, I ask myself why this isn't possible on Linux:
ifconfig enp3s0 inet alias 192.168.12.206 netmask 255.255.255.0
while it is perfectly possible on OpenBSD (with the correct device of course).

I wonder which brainstorm resulted in writing ip instead of rewriting ifconfig 
- from scratch if necessary - with backwards compatibility.

I still can't decide for myself whether having same-name-tools with subtle 
differences between Linux and BSD is better or not than having different tools 
with different names altogether and deal with it.
> 
> (2) is really bad, especially the part where it does not show
> all of the IPs that were assigned by other tools, for example
> NetworkManager, or Debian's own ifupdown via
> /etc/network/interfaces.
Yes, and why can it not "ifconfig -A" as the BSD-ifconfig can?
> 
There was VMS and then WNT was made - better(?) but a totally different 
approach - unfortunately the tools coming with WNT were crippled and not very 
consistent and the concept of i-nodes was implemented but never really used - 
but I digress.
At least ip is more versatile than (Lin)-ifconfig - so there is an improvement.
Will Linux now be the CTE - a totally different approach than BSD?
or shall the "ux" be sacrificed by distributions and we keep the "Lin"?

Linux is just the kernel. The distributions took the Linux-kernel and built a 
Unix-like system around it.
Now it is more like they build a system according to their liking and fit it 
with the Linux-kernel or maybe any other in the future.
That seems to be similar to the path Apple took with the Mach kernel.

Kind regards,
Eike

-- 
Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE

Re: No ifconfig

[Curt]

On 2017-08-21, Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 05:58:43AM +0100, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:
>> van Smoorenburg init and systemd actually have nothing whatsoever to do with
>> it.  ifconfig uses one Linux API for sending information to and from the
>> kernel, ip uses a different Linux API.  Ironically, the net-tools package is
>> completely Linux-specific *anyway*, so the usual argument that ifconfig
>> couldn't be changed to use the other API, because it has to remain portable,
>> does not hold any water.
>
> The basic command-line syntax of ifconfig is pseudo-standardized across
> dozens of legacy Unix systems, as well as BSD.  *This* is what people
> are really complaining about here -- the divergence of Linux from the
> rest of the Unix-speaking world (in addition to breaking backward
> compatibility with itself).

I have a tenuous understanding of just about everything, but I was going
to mention the wiki, which seems to dilute whatever savory irony the
so-called complete Linux specificity of net-tools might contain:
 
 Take into account that the interfaces provided by net-tools, to some extent
 are the portable ones across OSes to configure and handle some network stuff.
 If net-tools is considered deprecated on GNU/Linux, please do not just remove
 the support as that will break GNU/kFreeBSD for example which is using the
 compatible freebsd-net-tools, or GNU/Hurd which can use the partial support
 from inetutils-tools. 

https://wiki.debian.org/NetToolsDeprecation

> E.g. Solaris 10: 
> E.g. HP-UX 11i: 
> E.g. AIX 6.1: 
> 
> E.g. OpenBSD 6.1: 
>
> I think updating net-tools to incorporate whatever new Linux network
> stack features it's currently not supporting would make a lot of
> people happy, so long as it doesn't break backward compatibility.
>
> (Like Gene, I don't even know what those featues *are*.)
>
>


-- 
Only the coward who has more fear of death than dignity can comfort himself 
with the fact that
his body will in time live again in the grass, in the stones, in the toad. To 
find one's
immortality in the transmutation of substances is as strange as to prophesy a 
brilliant future
for the case after a precious violin has been broken and becomes useless. — 
"Ward 6"

Re: No ifconfig

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 21 August 2017 09:08:11 Christian Seiler wrote:

> Am 2017-08-21 14:50, schrieb Greg Wooledge:
> > [missing features in ifconfig]
> > (Like Gene, I don't even know what those featues *are*.)
>
>  From my personal experience, the following two things are
> features I'm actually using regularly and that don't work
> with it:
>
> 1. IPv6 doesn't really work properly (as explained elsewhere
> by other people in this thread)
> 2. Can't add multiple IP addresses to the same interface and
> (worse) even if multiple IP addresses are assigned to the
> same interfaces it only shows the primary address

I don't know as to how ifconfig sets it up, but its a piece of cake to 
edit /etc/network/interfaces to do that. If I bring in a new router, I 
uncomment this stanza in the interfaces file:

#auto eth0:1

# to access reset to 192.168.0.1 routers/switches on the 2nd cat5 port
#iface eth0:1 inet static
#address 192.168.0.3
#netmask 255.255.255.0
==
giving me an address I can use to talk to and configure the new router.

And I can recall doing it all with a nearly 20yo version of ifconfig the 
first time I needed to, following the instructions given to me over the 
phone from our network guy at the tv station.

But remembering the arcania of how I did it then, vs the quick edit shown 
above, followed by a sudo service networking restart, is for me, buckets 
easier.

> (2) is really bad, especially the part where it does not show
> all of the IPs that were assigned by other tools, for example

Huh? ifconfig doesn't even need a -a option to show me eth0:1 if ts 
configured and up. It does need the -a if the interface is configured 
but down.

> NetworkManager, or Debian's own ifupdown via
> /etc/network/interfaces.

Please don't equate those two. Despite having a dhcpd server configured 
in my router, and which my lappy and my kids telephones can use without 
any problems, it (N-M) has yet, at this location, to achieve a working 
connection for any of my machines. My lappy uses wicd IIRC. N-M will 
tear a working connection down and leave you sitting under a bush on a 
deserted, .2 acre island. So I long ago learned the usefullness of the 
sudo chattr +i filename command as it got done to the various network 
related files, in a race to beat N-M's blanking of /etc/resolv.conf.

Fortunately N-M had the great good sense to not load up the logs 
complaining about the loss of its access to those files.  Lately, its 
been made removable, which for me is a "Good Thing".

I agree with the concept of making networking just work, but the concept 
and the reality are not even in the same building here. That could even 
be my fault because I've never used the first 2 class D 192.168.x.x 
addresses for my home network. One more roadblock for the black hats to 
climb over, and in 20 years I've not been touched.

> Regards,
> Christian


Cheers Christian, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Linus Torvalds: “siento que ya no puedo confiar en el sistema de inicio”

[Narcis Garcia]

El 21/08/17 a les 12:31, Àlex ha escrit:
> En Roger ha escrit:
> 
>> Que comenci la festa... Aneu preparant les crispetes ^^
> 
> 
> Ara que a vacances tinc temps, he preparat un munt de crispetes, i he
> llegit els fils a Slashdot:
> 
>  
> https://linux.slashdot.org/story/17/07/15/0018221/in-which-linus-torvalds-makes-an-init-joke
> 
> 
> Esperava sentir les crítiques de sempre, pero aquest cop hi havia una
> nova: alguns missatges es referien des de fa uns mesos hi ha una
> vulnerabilitat crítica a SystemD (-és a dir, a tots el Linux excepte
> Slackware-) quan tenen usuaris que el nom comença per una xifra, cosa
> que Unix i Linux sempre han permés.
> 
> 
> https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2017-182
> 
> 
>"Network exploitable; Not required Authentication to exploit;
> Provides administrator access, Allows complete confidentiality,
> integrity, and availability violation; Allows unauthorized disclosure of
> information; Allows disruption of service"
> 
> 
> Resulta que el senyor de SystemD ha decidit que no s'ha de corregir, i
> tot el que ha fet és afegir al readme de systemd que millor no crear
> usuaris que comencin amb un número:
> 
> 
>https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237
> 

Tot i que aquest problema és greu, no crec que les errades (corregibles)
de Systemd siguin el fonament del problema.
Fins ara els plantejaments de desenvolupament del sistema operatiu GNU
són els que més influeixen en el desenvolupament del nucli Linux. És
possible que el líder d'aquest últim projecte, Linux Torvalds, vegi
venir que això pot canviar i ser Systemd que comenci a determinar el
desenvolupament de bona part de projectes, com el mateix nucli.

En aquesta polèmica no hi deu haver bons i dolents, sinó encerts i
errades (grosses).

RE: W: Failed to fetch [..] The following signatures were invalid: [..]

[Cecile, Adam]

Hey,


Can you try with the cloudera address ?

It fails on all hosts here but there're all basically installed with the same 
foreman/puppet so maybe there's something wrong here.


Best regards, Adam.


De : Brad Rogers 
Envoyé : lundi 21 août 2017 12:58:42
À : Debian Users ML
Objet : Re: W: Failed to fetch [..] The following signatures were invalid: [..]

On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 08:00:50 +
"Cecile, Adam"  wrote:

Hello Adam,

>Reading apt's manpage shows that [trused=yes] in sources.list is
>supposed to bypass apt-secure. Problem is: it does not. Adding this

It does here.  My source line;

deb [trusted=yes] file:/home/brad/Data/Debian/ binary/

--
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
You're not so safe in the safety of your room
Nasty - The Damned

Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab)

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 21 August 2017 09:06:27 Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 06:35:09PM +0100, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 
wrote:
> > Debian 7 has those very manual pages:
> >
> >
> > * https://manpages.debian.org/wheezy/upstart/inittab.5.en.html
>
> Gene's copy/paste was crude, but his point was essentially valid:
> the inittab(5) page on a *real* wheezy system comes from syvinit,
> not from upstart.
>
> 
>
> I don't of know a single person who ever used upstart on wheezy.

With 4 wheezy machines here, I don't even know what it is/was.

> I also don't believe it was wheezy's job to warn people that the next
> release of Debian would have a new init system and break backward
> compatibility.  That hardly seems fair to wheezy.  A system should
> only be responsible for documenting itself, not its future progeny.

I'd argue that something that was being deprecated, should have a pointer 
to a tut or something that would "ease the pain" of learning a new 
system. Having to learn a new system of setting up a network is doubly 
painfull when you do not have a network so you can ask questions w/o 
going to a different machine where the networking is working.  Not 
everybody has a 5+ machine home network. For email w/o this machine, I'd 
first have to recover pw's and such and use webmail from one of the 
other machines external to this house.
>
> The change to systemd in jessie is a huge shock for some people, which
> is why the alternative to "go back" to sysvinit is still provided and
> mostly supported.

And I think that was much appreciated.  And seems to have been done for 
me by the source of the jessie installed on the r-pi 3b. Considering I 
was working on strange armhf hardware, I was, and still am, amazed at 
the compatibility problems I have not had.

> Could the Debian wiki do a better job?  Certainly.  But it is
> documentation provided by end users for end users, so it's hit and
> miss.
>
> If anyone on this list finds a wiki page that seems wrong, but you
> don't feel like you have the knowledge required to fix it, go ahead
> and point it out to us.  Be sure to give us the actual URL of the page
> in question, and describe what you feel is wrong about it.  It would
> also be helpful to understand how you got to that page ("I started on
> SystemAdministration, then clicked Boot process, then clicked Init"),
> as this will give us a better high-level overview of how the wiki is
> structured.  Maybe the changes you want would fit better in one of
> the pages you went *through* on your way here, or maybe not.

Cheers Greg, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Relocated Header Directories

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 07:06:17AM -0700, Kushal Kumaran wrote:

[...]

> There are several directories configured for searching header files.
> The command "gcc -xc -E -v - < /dev/null" will print those paths out.

HAH. Thanks. That's what was missing in my answer :-)

Cheers
- -- tomás
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAlma6lMACgkQBcgs9XrR2kYwhwCaAnYSF9BpvWmu04d2e6KyksRT
qEsAmgMcvSGyd/9DWVnYS96Qbk0Nz4s3
=Bder
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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  style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">ShoreTel

  
  width="86" valign="bottom" nowrap>
  style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Citrix

  
  width="107" valign="bottom" nowrap>
  style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">NetSuite

  
  width="107" valign="bottom" nowrap>
  style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Marketo

  
  width="107" valign="bottom" nowrap>
  style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Ansys

  
 
 
  valign="bottom" nowrap>
  style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Oracle

  
  
  style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Polycom

  
  
  style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dell

  
  
  style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Lawson

  
  
  style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">AWS

  
  
  style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">PTC

  
 
 
  
  style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">JD

  Edwards
  
  width="96" valign="bottom" nowrap>
  style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Nortel

  
  width="86" valign="bottom" nowrap>
  style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">EMC

  
  width="107" valign="bottom" nowrap>
  style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Epicor

  
  width="107" valign="bottom" nowrap>
  style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Zoho

  
  width="107" valign="bottom" nowrap>
  style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">AutoCAD

  
 


style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> 


style="width:480pt;margin-left:4.65pt;border-collapse:collapse" width="640"  
cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">

 
  width="133" valign="bottom" nowrap>
  style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Microstratergy

  
  
  

Re: Relocated Header Directories

[Kushal Kumaran]

Dutch Ingraham  writes:

> Hi everyone -
>
> It seems Debian has moved some header directories, like /usr/include/bits (and
> sys, and asm, etc.) from /usr/include/ to, e.g., 
> /usr/include/i386-linux-gnu/bits/
> (arch-specific).
>
> My first question is:  Why?
>

This is so that headers that are architecture independent are separated
from headers with are architecture dependent.  Specifically, that they
are available at different paths.  This lets you install the headers
(and libraries) for different architectures simultaneously, which is
essential for debian's multiarch support.

> My second question is: How does this work?  There are no symlinks, yet a file
> like /usr/include/signal.h, has the standard "#include ", yet
> that path does not exist with the change noted above.  So how is this file
> included?
>
> Any enlightenment is appreciated.

There are several directories configured for searching header files.
The command "gcc -xc -E -v - < /dev/null" will print those paths out.
For my system, the directories are:

 /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/6/include
 /usr/local/include
 /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/6/include-fixed
 /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu
 /usr/include

The list will be different for you because you appear to be running
i386.

-- 
regards,
kushal

Re: Relocated Header Directories

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 08:37:14AM -0500, Dutch Ingraham wrote:
> Hi everyone -
> 
> It seems Debian has moved some header directories, like /usr/include/bits (and
> sys, and asm, etc.) from /usr/include/ to, e.g., 
> /usr/include/i386-linux-gnu/bits/
> (arch-specific).
> 
> My first question is:  Why?

Multi-arch. These days you can have libraries (and the corresponding
headers) for several architectures co-installed on your system.

Start here:

  https://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch

> My second question is: How does this work?  There are no symlinks, yet a file
> like /usr/include/signal.h, has the standard "#include ", yet
> that path does not exist with the change noted above.  So how is this file
> included?

Your compiler should know which architecture is relevant and set the default
include directories (can't look it up now to be sure, sorry).

Cheers
- -- tomás
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAlma5+cACgkQBcgs9XrR2kZbkgCeMXS69kgQkQAkOlMgIyJgPt8i
YloAnREMU31YSlj/GrO3/Yv/u/bAQ1lP
=DdkG
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Relocated Header Directories

[Dutch Ingraham]

Hi everyone -

It seems Debian has moved some header directories, like /usr/include/bits (and
sys, and asm, etc.) from /usr/include/ to, e.g., 
/usr/include/i386-linux-gnu/bits/
(arch-specific).

My first question is:  Why?

My second question is: How does this work?  There are no symlinks, yet a file
like /usr/include/signal.h, has the standard "#include ", yet
that path does not exist with the change noted above.  So how is this file
included?

Any enlightenment is appreciated.

Re: i386 executables on amd64?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 06:01:03PM -0700, John Conover wrote:
> I inherited a project to install a pile of C code, compiled and
> running on Debian Wheezy i386 machine, to a Debian jessie amd64
> machine.
> 
> Astonishingly, most of the Wheezy i386 executables run on the Jessie
> amd64 machine, (which came with the project.)
> 
> Is this to be expected?

Sounds like whoever set up the jessie machine already set up this:

Re: No ifconfig

[Fungi4All]

From: ans...@debian.org

> To: Fungi4All 
> debian-user\@lists.debian.org 
>
> Fungi4All  writes:
>>> Never. Debian developers are not your lackeys.
>>
>> Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat and they can
>> become "your" lackeys.
>
> Could you take your crazy conspiracy theories somewhere else? I"m also
> very tempted to suggest contacting a mental health professional if you
> truly believe what you write and are not just trolling.

First of all this is a "users" list, I belong here.
I may be crazy, but crazy people can follow logical arguments despite of their
craziness.
Please explain to us this madness of spider-web neural network of universally
unique identifiers of every stinking little piece of hw item the system 
encounters?
Explain to me/us how these uu-identifiers are being blocked from being 
communicated.
What is the overall purpose?  Someone (Erik?) already posted the commonality
of transplanting your "system disk" into another machine and facing more madness
than I can be diagnosed with.

My crazy brain says:  "forensic science", relating and identifying an 
insignificant
piece of evidence with something else.  At least have the infrastructure that 
supports
such relational "madness", because for sure judges and attorneys can't 
understand.

Nobody is paying me to shut up!  And that is not so crazy.  And by the time this
message goes to the public archives you'd better come up with a logical 
explanation
that defeats my crazy mode of thought.

> Ansgar

Again. It is not personal, it is the hydra behind the matrix that is causing 
madness.

Re: X problems in Stretch with AMD APU?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 10:19:59PM +0200, Alle Meije Wink wrote:
> I have a home theatre PC with an AMD A6-3500 APU. Bit of an oldie but still
> plays everything fine. The drivers supplied by the Jessie repositories
> (including fglrx for hardware acceleration) worked fine.
> 
> But then I upgraded to Stretch and suddenly started without X. The debian
> supplied drivers don't seem to support the A6 any more?

Start with:

lspci -nn
dmesg | grep -i firmware

If there are any firmware loading errors, these would probably
indicate a need to install some non-free firmware packages
(e.g. firmware-amd-graphics).

Installing amd64-microcode probably wouldn't hurt either, though it
probably won't have an immediately noticeable effect on your graphics.

Re: Systemd: Error when replacing postfix LSB init with postfix.service on Debian 8 (jessie)

[Sven Hartge]

Christian Seiler  wrote:

> Now, that doesn't mean that you should still write _new_ init scripts
> for custom services if you're going to use systemd anyway. There it
> will be a good idea to learn how to do that with native systemd
> service units.

Exactly.

I was able to create much simpler and much more resilient systemd units
for my local services running on servers than I was ever able to do with
shell scripts. And I was also able to get rid of external supervisors
(like monit) to restart said services upon errors.

As an added bonus those units now work on Debian, Ubuntu and SLES12,
where before that a mess of different shell scripts were needed.

Grüße,
Sven.

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.

Re: [KDE5] Icônes manquantes dans Dolphin

[bernard . schoenacker]

- Mail original -

> De: "Mathias Dufresne" 
> À: debian-user-french@lists.debian.org
> Envoyé: Lundi 21 Août 2017 14:37:19
> Objet: [KDE5] Icônes manquantes dans Dolphin

> Bonjour à tou(te)s,

> Je viens d'installer Debian 9 et celle-ci est iconoclaste : dans
> Dolphin je n'ai aucune icône malgré l'installation de "kde-full".

> Quelqu'un aurait une idée sur comment faire pour que ces icônes
> reviennent ?

> En vous souhaitant une bonne journée,

> Mathias

bonjour, 

serait il possible de connaître le sources.list (?) 
et la liste des paquets installés ayant trait à kde ? 

pour ma part je chercherais : kde-thumbnailer-deb 

ensuite c'est quel dolphin ? 

apt-cache search dolphin 

apt-cache search dolphin |awk '/dolphin/ {print $1}' 
dolphin 
dolphin4 
dolphin-emu 
dolphin-owncloud 
kde-telepathy-send-file 
dolphin-dev 
libdolphinvcs-dev 
libdolphinvcs5 
dolphin-emu-data 
dolphin-plugins 
kdesdk-dolphin-plugins 
golang-github-seandolphin-bqschema-dev 
kde-telepathy-send-file-dbg 

slt 
bernard 

Re: No ifconfig

[Christian Seiler]

Am 2017-08-21 14:50, schrieb Greg Wooledge:

[missing features in ifconfig]
(Like Gene, I don't even know what those featues *are*.)


From my personal experience, the following two things are
features I'm actually using regularly and that don't work
with it:

1. IPv6 doesn't really work properly (as explained elsewhere
   by other people in this thread)
2. Can't add multiple IP addresses to the same interface and
   (worse) even if multiple IP addresses are assigned to the
   same interfaces it only shows the primary address

(2) is really bad, especially the part where it does not show
all of the IPs that were assigned by other tools, for example
NetworkManager, or Debian's own ifupdown via
/etc/network/interfaces.

Regards,
Christian

Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab)

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 06:35:09PM +0100, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:
> Debian 7 has those very manual pages:
> 
> 
> * https://manpages.debian.org/wheezy/upstart/inittab.5.en.html

Gene's copy/paste was crude, but his point was essentially valid:
the inittab(5) page on a *real* wheezy system comes from syvinit,
not from upstart.



I don't of know a single person who ever used upstart on wheezy.

I also don't believe it was wheezy's job to warn people that the next
release of Debian would have a new init system and break backward
compatibility.  That hardly seems fair to wheezy.  A system should only
be responsible for documenting itself, not its future progeny.

The change to systemd in jessie is a huge shock for some people, which
is why the alternative to "go back" to sysvinit is still provided and
mostly supported.

Could the Debian wiki do a better job?  Certainly.  But it is
documentation provided by end users for end users, so it's hit and miss.

If anyone on this list finds a wiki page that seems wrong, but you
don't feel like you have the knowledge required to fix it, go ahead
and point it out to us.  Be sure to give us the actual URL of the page
in question, and describe what you feel is wrong about it.  It would
also be helpful to understand how you got to that page ("I started on
SystemAdministration, then clicked Boot process, then clicked Init"),
as this will give us a better high-level overview of how the wiki is
structured.  Maybe the changes you want would fit better in one of
the pages you went *through* on your way here, or maybe not.

Re: No ifconfig

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 05:58:43AM +0100, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:
> van Smoorenburg init and systemd actually have nothing whatsoever to do with
> it.  ifconfig uses one Linux API for sending information to and from the
> kernel, ip uses a different Linux API.  Ironically, the net-tools package is
> completely Linux-specific *anyway*, so the usual argument that ifconfig
> couldn't be changed to use the other API, because it has to remain portable,
> does not hold any water.

The basic command-line syntax of ifconfig is pseudo-standardized across
dozens of legacy Unix systems, as well as BSD.  *This* is what people
are really complaining about here -- the divergence of Linux from the
rest of the Unix-speaking world (in addition to breaking backward
compatibility with itself).

E.g. Solaris 10: 
E.g. HP-UX 11i: 
E.g. AIX 6.1: 

E.g. OpenBSD 6.1: 

I think updating net-tools to incorporate whatever new Linux network
stack features it's currently not supporting would make a lot of
people happy, so long as it doesn't break backward compatibility.

(Like Gene, I don't even know what those featues *are*.)

[KDE5] Icônes manquantes dans Dolphin

[Mathias Dufresne]

Bonjour à tou(te)s,

Je viens d'installer Debian 9 et celle-ci est iconoclaste : dans Dolphin je
n'ai aucune icône malgré l'installation de "kde-full".

Quelqu'un aurait une idée sur comment faire pour que ces icônes reviennent ?

En vous souhaitant une bonne journée,

Mathias

Re: Systemd: Error when replacing postfix LSB init with postfix.service on Debian 8 (jessie)

[Christian Seiler]

Am 2017-08-21 11:52, schrieb Tom Browder:

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 02:36 Sven Hartge  wrote:

Question: Why do you want to manually replace the init-script from
postfix in Jessie with a systemd.unit? What do you want to
accomplish by
doing so (other than creating a possible broken system)?


I thought I needed to be able to create service files since the init.d
system is going away.


Maybe in 20 years or so, but not in the foreseeable future. And
especially not during the lifetime of a Debian release. There
will be no point release or security update for Jessie that will
drop support for init scripts. Same goes for Stretch. So even
_if_ Debian should decide to drop init script support in Debian
10 (Buster) - which won't happen, not even systemd upstream has
dropped init script support yet, and they're much less
conservative than Debian when it comes to these things  - you'd
still be able to use Stretch for 5 years before support runs
out. And as I said: support is not going to go away anytime
soon.

Now, that doesn't mean that you should still write _new_ init
scripts for custom services if you're going to use systemd
anyway. There it will be a good idea to learn how to do that
with native systemd service units.

But I don't think it's a productive use of your time to go
around and start replacing all init scripts that are currently
present on your system by systemd services. Those that are
included with Debian are going to be taken care of by the
maintainers in Debian in subsequent releases. And any old
custom scripts that you still use I'd transition whenever you
need to change something in them anyway.


Postfix seems simple enough that its service file would also be
simple.


Well, other than the fact that postfix isn't simple (as you've
noticed), the main issue here is that Debian 9 comes with Postfix
3, while Debian 8 comes with Postfix 2. Furthermore the Postfix
packaging in Debian 9 has started to make use of advanced systemd
features for their own units, so it's not just a port of a simple
init script, but something rather more complicated. You had the
misfortune of picking one of the worst examples here.

Regards,
Christian

Re: renommer l'interface réseau

[Francois Lafont]

On 08/21/2017 07:27 AM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:

>> Àmha, ce n'est pas forcément une bonne idée de toucher à Grub et
>> aux options de boot du noyau. La méthode que j'ai indiquée avec
>> systemd dans mon message précédent me semble plus « propre ».
> 
> Pourquoi donc ?

Perso, j'ai eu parfois des problèmes avec Grub. Sur des serveurs HP
par exemple, le simple fait de changer une option de boot avec Grub
faisait que le serveur ne démarrait plus. Alors c'était sans doute
plus un souci côté serveur que côté Grub (j'ai jamais eu le fin mot
de l'histoire, le support HP n'a pas été efficace, c'est le moins
qu'on puisse dire) mais perso je préfère ne pas pas toucher à la
configuration de Grub.

Et par ailleurs, la solution avec un fichier dans /etc/systemd/network/
me paraît tellement simple, avec une syntaxe on ne peut plus claire
(voir SYSTEMD.LINK(5) exemple 2 sous Stretch).


-- 
François Lafont

Re: W: Failed to fetch [..] The following signatures were invalid: [..]

[Brad Rogers]

On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 08:00:50 +
"Cecile, Adam"  wrote:

Hello Adam,

>Reading apt's manpage shows that [trused=yes] in sources.list is
>supposed to bypass apt-secure. Problem is: it does not. Adding this

It does here.  My source line;

deb [trusted=yes] file:/home/brad/Data/Debian/ binary/

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
You're not so safe in the safety of your room
Nasty - The Damned


pgpIvZo1DqwCV.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Systemd: Error when replacing postfix LSB init with postfix.service on Debian 8 (jessie)

[Sven Hartge]

Tom Browder  wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 02:36 Sven Hartge  wrote:
>> Tom Browder  wrote:
>>> On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 12:30 Sven Hartge  wrote:

>>> So the question I have is how does it all work?  There is no init.d,
>>> but there seems to be some convoluted handling that I haven't
>>> figured out yet.  Surely some expert can write a postfix.service
>>> file that drives postfix commands.

>> Question: Why do you want to manually replace the init-script from
>> postfix in Jessie with a systemd.unit? What do you want to accomplish
>> by doing so (other than creating a possible broken system)?

> I thought I needed to be able to create service files since the init.d
> system is going away.  Postfix seems simple enough that its service
> file would also be simple.  I see I am wrong and I will let sleeping
> dogs lie.

No, you don't need to create service files yourself.

systemd happily runs "legacy" LSB init scripts and will do so for the
foreseable future.

And even if sometime in the far future this feature may get removed, it
is the job of the package maintainers to providde services files for
their packages and not you.

Grüße,
Sven.

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.

Re: Re: Linus Torvalds: “siento que ya no puedo confiar en el sistema de inicio”

[Àlex]

En Roger ha escrit:

> Que comenci la festa... Aneu preparant les crispetes ^^


Ara que a vacances tinc temps, he preparat un munt de crispetes, i he
llegit els fils a Slashdot:

 
https://linux.slashdot.org/story/17/07/15/0018221/in-which-linus-torvalds-makes-an-init-joke


Esperava sentir les crítiques de sempre, pero aquest cop hi havia una
nova: alguns missatges es referien des de fa uns mesos hi ha una
vulnerabilitat crítica a SystemD (-és a dir, a tots el Linux excepte
Slackware-) quan tenen usuaris que el nom comença per una xifra, cosa
que Unix i Linux sempre han permés.


https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2017-182


   "Network exploitable; Not required Authentication to exploit;
Provides administrator access, Allows complete confidentiality,
integrity, and availability violation; Allows unauthorized disclosure of
information; Allows disruption of service"


Resulta que el senyor de SystemD ha decidit que no s'ha de corregir, i
tot el que ha fet és afegir al readme de systemd que millor no crear
usuaris que comencin amb un número:


   https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237

Re: apt-get: Why "Unable to find source package" errors?

[Darac Marjal]

On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 08:08:07PM -0400, Kynn Jones wrote:

  Example:

      % sudo apt-get build-dep emacs25
      Reading package lists... Done
      E: Unable to find a source package for emacs25

  I have run `apt-get update` before running the command above, and my 
`/etc/apt/sources.list` file contains the following

      deb  [1]http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch main contrib non-free
      deb-src  [2]http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch main contrib non-free

      deb  [3]http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch-updates main contrib non-free
      deb-src  [4]http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch-updates main contrib 
non-free

      deb [5]http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free
      deb-src [6]http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib 
non-free

  What am I doing wrong?


What happens if you try to get the source package directly?

% apt-get source emacs25

(I don't *think* you need to be root to run 'apt-get source', but if it 
complains about permissions, try again with sudo).




References

  Visible links
  1. http://deb.debian.org/debian
  2. http://deb.debian.org/debian
  3. http://deb.debian.org/debian
  4. http://deb.debian.org/debian
  5. http://security.debian.org/
  6. http://security.debian.org/


--
For more information, please reread.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

RE: W: Failed to fetch [..] The following signatures were invalid: [..]

[Cecile, Adam]

Hello,


Yes but it's not going to happen. There's tones of external repositories not 
being correct, sometimes I take the time to report, sometime it gets fixed, or 
they don't give a f.

My point is third parties repo will always be a mess and I expect my Debian to 
be able to live with it.


Reading apt's manpage shows that [trused=yes] in sources.list is supposed to 
bypass apt-secure. Problem is: it does not. Adding this option doesn't change 
anything in apt behavior, so I opened a bug against apt.


Regards, Adam.


De : Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 
Envoyé : samedi 19 août 2017 09:49:00
À : Debian users
Objet : Re: W: Failed to fetch [..] The following signatures were invalid: [..]

Adam Cecile:

> Since I upgraded to Stretch I get the following warning when running
> apt update:
>
>> W: Failed to fetch
>> http://archive.cloudera.com/cdh5/debian/jessie/amd64/cdh/dists/jessie-cdh5/InRelease
>>  The
>> following signatures were
>> invalid:F36A89E33CC1BD0F71079007327574EE02A818DD
>>

What the people at Cloudera want is
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/387053/ .  What you need is to
tell the people at Cloudera that.

The Cloudera people also need to update their instructions to cover
Debian 9.  Just duplicating the Debian 8 and 7 instructions is not
really right, note.

Re: apt-get: Why "Unable to find source package" errors?

[Curt]

On 2017-08-21, Dejan Jocic  wrote:
> On 21-08-17, Kynn Jones wrote:
>> OK, I added the trailing / (which, BTW, I guarantee I *never* needed
>> before, and I've been doing this for years), ran apt-get update, etc., but
>> in the end I got the same results.
>> 
>> Does apt-get build-dep emacs25 work ok for you all?  (I assume that if you
>> try it, you'll get a Y/N prompt that'll let you back out.)
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>
> Hmm, live and learn. I've been using trailing / for years, I think.
> Anyway, yes, apt-get build-dep emacs25 works here fine, at least with
> --simulate flag.
>

I have none and neither does the wiki (trailing slashes, that is).

https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList


-- 
"One can remain alive long past the usual date of disintegration if one is
unafraid of change, insatiable in intellectual curiosity, interested in big
things, and happy in small things." — Edith Wharton

Re: Systemd: Error when replacing postfix LSB init with postfix.service on Debian 8 (jessie)

[Tom Browder]

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 02:36 Sven Hartge  wrote:

> Tom Browder  wrote:
> > On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 12:30 Sven Hartge  wrote:
>
> > So the question I have is how does it all work?  There is no init.d,
> > but there seems to be some convoluted handling that I haven't figured
> > out yet.  Surely some expert can write a postfix.service file that
> > drives postfix commands.

...

> Question: Why do you want to manually replace the init-script from
> postfix in Jessie with a systemd.unit? What do you want to accomplish by
> doing so (other than creating a possible broken system)?


I thought I needed to be able to create service files since the init.d
system is going away.  Postfix seems simple enough that its service file
would also be simple.  I see I am wrong and I will let sleeping dogs lie.

Thanks, Sven.

-Tom

Re: apt-get: Why "Unable to find source package" errors?

[Kynn Jones]

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 6:02 AM, Kynn Jones  wrote:

> (Sorry, Dejan; I intended to send this to the list.  Apologies for the
> duplicate message.)
>
> On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 5:13 AM, Dejan Jocic  wrote:
>
>> Anyway, yes, apt-get build-dep emacs25 works here fine, at least with
>> --simulate flag.
>>
>>
> Thanks!  That's good to know.  It means that I have a misconfiguration
> somewhere.
>
> How do I troubleshoot this problem further?
>

Also, for the record, normal `apt-get install ...` works fine.

Re: apt-get: Why "Unable to find source package" errors?

[Kynn Jones]

(Sorry, Dejan; I intended to send this to the list.  Apologies for the
duplicate message.)

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 5:13 AM, Dejan Jocic  wrote:

> Anyway, yes, apt-get build-dep emacs25 works here fine, at least with
> --simulate flag.
>
>
Thanks!  That's good to know.  It means that I have a misconfiguration
somewhere.

How do I troubleshoot this problem further?

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 5:13 AM, Dejan Jocic  wrote:

> On 21-08-17, Kynn Jones wrote:
> > OK, I added the trailing / (which, BTW, I guarantee I *never* needed
> > before, and I've been doing this for years), ran apt-get update, etc.,
> but
> > in the end I got the same results.
> >
> > Does apt-get build-dep emacs25 work ok for you all?  (I assume that if
> you
> > try it, you'll get a Y/N prompt that'll let you back out.)
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
>
> Hmm, live and learn. I've been using trailing / for years, I think.
> Anyway, yes, apt-get build-dep emacs25 works here fine, at least with
> --simulate flag.
>
>

mga-Driver does not work with video card Matrox G400/G450 rev 04

[markus . hiereth]

Hello,

an upgrade from Debian 8 Jessie to Debian 9 Stretch caused a similar
problem as described by Tony Stoneley in

  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/03/msg01272.html

The solution of working with xserver-xorg-video-vesa was not
satisfying as I was not able to configure the display correctly
(windows were to large in size).

I did not pass a bug report concerning the driver from 
  Name   Version  Architektur 
  xserver-xorg-video-mga 1:1.6.5-1i386   

Instead, I used apt-pinning ([1], a file /etc/apt/preferences) which
forces the package management system to accept

  Name   Version  Architektur 
  xserver-xorg-video-mga 1:1.6.3-2+b1 i386   

the driver video card driver from Jessie (=oldstable)

Best regards
Markus


[1] 
https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_packages_from_mixed_source_of_archives

Re: apt-get: Why "Unable to find source package" errors?

[Dejan Jocic]

On 21-08-17, Kynn Jones wrote:
> OK, I added the trailing / (which, BTW, I guarantee I *never* needed
> before, and I've been doing this for years), ran apt-get update, etc., but
> in the end I got the same results.
> 
> Does apt-get build-dep emacs25 work ok for you all?  (I assume that if you
> try it, you'll get a Y/N prompt that'll let you back out.)
> 
> Thanks!
> 

Hmm, live and learn. I've been using trailing / for years, I think.
Anyway, yes, apt-get build-dep emacs25 works here fine, at least with
--simulate flag.

Debian Stretch doesn't boot without Monitor

[Wolfgang]

Hi,

I have an embedded device(/small pc) and I want to run Debian Stretch on
it. But I am experiencing a strange problem: it doesn't boot without
monitor. I created the following cronjob to verify if its
up'n'running(or not):

@reboot root beep -f 300.7 -r 2 -d 100 -l 400

My first guess was: some weird BIOS-Setting. But I didn't find any weird
BIOS-setting. So I tried to run a different OS, and it booted up correctly.

I also tried to use the Debian-Stretch-Disk on another hardware and it
boots even without a monitor. The problem seems to be a related with my
hardware.

The device has intel-graphics: i915

I installed(without success) the following firmware/microcode:
firmware-amd-graphics
firmware-linux
firmware-linux-free
firmware-linux-nonfree
firmware-misc-nonfree
amd64-microcode
intel-microcode

Does anyone have a clue?

Thanks in advance
Wolfgang

Re: apt-get: Why "Unable to find source package" errors?

[Kynn Jones]

OK, I added the trailing / (which, BTW, I guarantee I *never* needed
before, and I've been doing this for years), ran apt-get update, etc., but
in the end I got the same results.

Does apt-get build-dep emacs25 work ok for you all?  (I assume that if you
try it, you'll get a Y/N prompt that'll let you back out.)

Thanks!


On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 3:42 AM, Cindy-Sue Causey 
wrote:

> On 8/21/17, Dejan Jocic  wrote:
> > On 20-08-17, kamaraju kusumanchi wrote:
> >> On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 8:08 PM, Kynn Jones  wrote:
> >> > Example:
> >> >
> >> > % sudo apt-get build-dep emacs25
> >> > Reading package lists... Done
> >> > E: Unable to find a source package for emacs25
> >> >
> >> > I have run `apt-get update` before running the command above, and my
> >> > `/etc/apt/sources.list` file contains the following
> >> >
> >> > deb  http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch main contrib non-free
> >> > deb-src  http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch main contrib
> non-free
> >> >
> >> > deb  http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch-updates main contrib
> >> > non-free
> >> > deb-src  http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch-updates main
> contrib
> >> > non-free
> >> >
> >> > deb http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib
> >> > non-free
> >> > deb-src http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib
> >> > non-free
> >> >
> >> > What am I doing wrong?
> >>
> >> Your apt-get build-dep command is fine. This could be be a problem
> >> with the particular mirror you are using. Try using
> >> http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ instead of
> >> http://deb.debian.org/debian and see if that works.
> >>
> >
> > Actually, httpredir.debian.org is unmaintained and all it does is to
> > redirect to deb.debian.org. What he does miss is / after debian. So it
> > looks like this:
> >
> > deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free
> > deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free
> >
> > deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib non-free
> > deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib
> non-free
>
>
> I came in here to ask about the "apt-get update", too.
>
> I was also wondering about the "httpredir" one. There was some
> publicity about it becoming "a thing" to do a long time ago. Then I
> noticed it disappeared out of my new installations. And then I read
> something about it going by the wayside. :)
>
> I tried this command earlier. It failed with the same error as Kynn.
> While I was dissecting to see if I could catch some tiny error in
> Kynn's sources.list, I smacked myself in the head about mine.
>
> Of course mine wouldn't work. My sources.list was only one line. It
> didn't have the deb-src line. Always wondered what that was for, now I
> know. I had just been thinking about changing that yesterday so I did
> today.
>
> My lines don't have slashes at the end. I didn't do that. Debootstrap
> sets it up with no trailing slash. In fact I just got to verify for
> 100% because I ran the first step in debootstrap'ing Sid again a
> couple hours ago.
>
> I just ran the "apt-get build-dep emacs25" command again.. It's
> working as expected now... so I'm back to leaning heavy on did you
> "apt-get update"? :)
>
> Cindy :)
> --
> Cindy-Sue Causey
> Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
>
> * runs with duct tape *
>
>

Re: apt-get: Why "Unable to find source package" errors?

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 8/21/17, Dejan Jocic  wrote:
> On 20-08-17, kamaraju kusumanchi wrote:
>> On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 8:08 PM, Kynn Jones  wrote:
>> > Example:
>> >
>> > % sudo apt-get build-dep emacs25
>> > Reading package lists... Done
>> > E: Unable to find a source package for emacs25
>> >
>> > I have run `apt-get update` before running the command above, and my
>> > `/etc/apt/sources.list` file contains the following
>> >
>> > deb  http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch main contrib non-free
>> > deb-src  http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch main contrib non-free
>> >
>> > deb  http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch-updates main contrib
>> > non-free
>> > deb-src  http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch-updates main contrib
>> > non-free
>> >
>> > deb http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib
>> > non-free
>> > deb-src http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib
>> > non-free
>> >
>> > What am I doing wrong?
>>
>> Your apt-get build-dep command is fine. This could be be a problem
>> with the particular mirror you are using. Try using
>> http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ instead of
>> http://deb.debian.org/debian and see if that works.
>>
>
> Actually, httpredir.debian.org is unmaintained and all it does is to
> redirect to deb.debian.org. What he does miss is / after debian. So it
> looks like this:
>
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free
>
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib non-free


I came in here to ask about the "apt-get update", too.

I was also wondering about the "httpredir" one. There was some
publicity about it becoming "a thing" to do a long time ago. Then I
noticed it disappeared out of my new installations. And then I read
something about it going by the wayside. :)

I tried this command earlier. It failed with the same error as Kynn.
While I was dissecting to see if I could catch some tiny error in
Kynn's sources.list, I smacked myself in the head about mine.

Of course mine wouldn't work. My sources.list was only one line. It
didn't have the deb-src line. Always wondered what that was for, now I
know. I had just been thinking about changing that yesterday so I did
today.

My lines don't have slashes at the end. I didn't do that. Debootstrap
sets it up with no trailing slash. In fact I just got to verify for
100% because I ran the first step in debootstrap'ing Sid again a
couple hours ago.

I just ran the "apt-get build-dep emacs25" command again.. It's
working as expected now... so I'm back to leaning heavy on did you
"apt-get update"? :)

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

Re: Systemd: Error when replacing postfix LSB init with postfix.service on Debian 8 (jessie)

[Sven Hartge]

Tom Browder  wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 12:30 Sven Hartge  wrote:

>> That unit file does effectivly nothing. It just starts "/bin/true" and
>> exits.
>>
>> What it *not* does is starting postfix in any way.
>>
>> This looks like there should be some other unit files which start the
>> other daemons belonging to postfix which depend on this unit file, so
>> you could easily start and stop everything with one command.
>>
>> Are you sure you only got this one unit file from the postfix developer?

> No, I got it from a package installation of postfix on Debian 9.

> So the question I have is how does it all work?  There is no init.d,
> but there seems to be some convoluted handling that I haven't figured
> out yet.  Surely some expert can write a postfix.service file that
> drives postfix commands.

As I suspected:

postfix contains an instanced service file.

The one you posted is just for convenience, to be able to start and stop
all instances at the same time.

The real "meat" is done via postfix@.service, which is a template. This
is coupled with a generator, "postfix-instance-generator" which creates
new instances on the fly, based on the output of "postmulti -l -a".

I don't know if you could transplant this mechanism from postfix3
(version in Stretch) to postfix2 (version in Jessie).

Question: Why do you want to manually replace the init-script from
postfix in Jessie with a systemd.unit? What do you want to accomplish by
doing so (other than creating a possible broken system)?

Grüße,
Sven.

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.

Re: apt-get: Why "Unable to find source package" errors?

[Sven Hartge]

kamaraju kusumanchi  wrote:

> Your apt-get build-dep command is fine. This could be be a problem
> with the particular mirror you are using. Try using
> http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ instead of
> http://deb.debian.org/debian and see if that works.

Both URLs point to exactly the same service. The old
httpredir.debian.org has been discontinued and its hostname points to
deb.debian.org.

Grüße,
Sven.

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.

Re: apt-get: Why "Unable to find source package" errors?

[Dejan Jocic]

On 20-08-17, kamaraju kusumanchi wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 8:08 PM, Kynn Jones  wrote:
> > Example:
> >
> > % sudo apt-get build-dep emacs25
> > Reading package lists... Done
> > E: Unable to find a source package for emacs25
> >
> > I have run `apt-get update` before running the command above, and my
> > `/etc/apt/sources.list` file contains the following
> >
> > deb  http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch main contrib non-free
> > deb-src  http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch main contrib non-free
> >
> > deb  http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch-updates main contrib non-free
> > deb-src  http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch-updates main contrib
> > non-free
> >
> > deb http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free
> > deb-src http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib
> > non-free
> >
> > What am I doing wrong?
> 
> Your apt-get build-dep command is fine. This could be be a problem
> with the particular mirror you are using. Try using
> http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ instead of
> http://deb.debian.org/debian and see if that works.
> 

Actually, httpredir.debian.org is unmaintained and all it does is to
redirect to deb.debian.org. What he does miss is / after debian. So it
looks like this:

deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free

deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib non-free


> raju
> -- 
> Kamaraju S Kusumanchi | http://raju.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Blog
>