Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice Menta Design proposal
Le 2010-11-24 18:28, Christoph Noack a écrit : * Editorial Content * Text like I need help may be true, but only few users want to hear that they are helpless:-) jejeje :P * The I ... have been a matter of debate for a long time on the OOo website. The I ... doesn't add value and doesn't help to feel part of the community. Graham Lauder gave us that suggestion and the text was changed for 1.20. I really don't care, my English is not good enough to make some kind of suggestion on this :P Oh, it is just about the I whatever ... misses a bit value to be repeated several times. Today, many pages try to state as compact as possible what the item is about (especially if there is further explanation next to it). For example, the I need help might be Get support. Oh, great think, Ubuntu does the same;-) I will comment on this. These points were taken up in a very short internal debate (Web Dev. Team) during the initial creation/design of the LO frontpage. In this short discussion, Graham posted the following 2 links to support his reasoning behind developing a simple page as well as simple choice options. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Talk:Website/Proposals http://www.mail-archive.com/d...@website.openoffice.org/msg02943.html After consideration, here are some of my thoughts: As an teacher for younger students/young adults (grades 4-8 Canada), as well as previous school board consultant (local French school board) for Math, Science and Technology, my greatest success is/has always when I use the principles of keeping it as simple as possible(KISS -- keep it simple and straightforward). Then the overall effect is that you will get a larger amount of success than if you add more distracting elements in your teaching material. The unfortunate reality is that, the simpler your presentation is made to the masses the greater your rate of satisfaction. I also agree with Graham, that making the user responsible (or at least give her/him the ownership) for the decision making process works best. We, teachers, are always encouraged to enable students to arrive at a solution by making the problem their own and encouraging the I will ... ; I need ...; I should This is one of the attributes of good teaching, making the student/person take ownership of their actions. The success rate will always be greater this way. We should then take a closer look at the type of website we would like to show the public at their first arrival. Should the site be a product site in composition or should it be a community site? Is there a way to blend these two? All three of these choices may produce different outcomes. If at all possible the third of these choices, that of a community blend, would seem to be the most appropriate at this point. We would like to announce to the world that there is a new community called LibreOffice and we are offering out office suite distribution to all who wish to use it. Emphasis should be placed more on the new user who's main intent is to download the suite and to either test or use for their own personal reasons. If the this third option is adopted, then presumably, we would like the user to download in the shortest amount of time possible and this, without too many distractions. We should make the new user feel at home and in control of her/his choices. By using the I ... statements we further reinforce to the new user that they are making a conscious and deliberate choice. If however, we offer new users such formulated statements as For download choose ... or Download here or Download etc. the user frame of mind is no longer that of a person in charge of her/his choice, but a person for whom the website has taken choices away from the user and is leading her/him in the decision making process. At the very outset, this formulation of statements has diminished the user empowerment of choice. I also agree that the frontpage needs space. Space on webpages, from a user point of view, will often offer breathing room for that particular user to digest the information on that page. Just some thoughts. -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]
Le 2010-11-26 04:51, Ivan M. a écrit : Hi Christoph, Bernhard, all, I wonder if we could work together some time over a few hours on something like IRC - at least initially. I will be online tomorrow from around 9pm your time (CET), so if you happen to be free, reply to this thread with the mode of communication you prefer, or a different time that suits you. I, for one, am not very experienced with Inkscape so it would be useful to swap files between each other as we work on them - of course anyone interested is welcome to join and we can keep the list updated with all progress. Regards, Ivan. You may want to arrange for a dedicated irc channel. It would probably be more efficient and won' t confuse other members on the main LO irc channel. If the channel is always available then, at the very least, will give the design team members channel access to work with. Marc -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice Design Team Management and Wiki Completion
Le 2010-12-06 18:35, Christoph Noack a écrit : Hi all, although the subject sounds a bit bold, I'd like to continue to work on our Design Team. One important thing (to me) is to move all the related work items to one of our wiki pages. This should make it easier to keep track of the items. So the most important question to you: Any objections? And improvement proposals? Here is the current list that is currently marked Marketing. And by the way, I've added two items that shouldn't get lost ... http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Work_Items Cheers, Christoph Hi Christoph Sounds great to me! Let's get these things organised and moved to the right pages. Marc -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Fwd: LibO-3.3-rc1 download icons still mentions beta
Le 2010-12-07 08:05, Christian Lohmaier a écrit : Hi Bernhard, *, On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote: Florian Effenberger schrieb: [Buttons for downloads refer to beta, need updating] But as this page will probably not survive the next weekend, I don't know if it is worthwhile to update the graphics. As Christian asked to remove these buttons or to provide a lot more of them[1], I'd wait for the website team for their opinion. [1]: http://go.mail-archive.com/vjgRhybcXUeO0DID6G3F3noyEDw= Yes, I'd love to have different buttons to be able to distinguish the various OS and architectures we have, and also put non-english (languagepacks) on the same level as english. (and I also forgot about BT, that could be symbolized by adding two up/downward facing arrows) IMHO it is bad to have a big button for english-only download, and then have the user to find a tiny, regular link for their language. (or not being able to distinguish rpm from deb, x86_64 from x86) But I'm open for suggestions, as long as it can be done with css, I'm happy to add it... ciao Christian Could we just put Stefan's download script there? Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-design] LibreOffice letterhead
I was just wondering if the design of a LibreOffice letterhead be put in as a request to this list or would I just go ahead and create one myself? Is this something that someone on this list could create? I am particularly interested in having this newly created LibreOffice letterhead appear on our marketing-material page. We will need access to a nice letterhead for upcoming conferences etc. I was hoping after this to link to the LibO letterhead template from our LibO Conference Kit and LibO Press Kit pages. We should have an official letterhead template for use in both of these kits. A concern I have in creating letterhead is the fact that we use mostly US letter size (on this side of the pond -- Canada/US/Mexico?) rather than the A4 letter format. We would need letter head to fit both sizes and also in portrait and landscape page formats. We are going to need it pretty soon as conferences in the US are approaching. Cheers Marc PS. I wonder what sizes are used mostly in South and Central Americas as well as in Asia and Africa? A4 or US letter? -- Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Icon set for pamphlet
Le 2011-02-09 15:23, drew a écrit : On Wed, 2011-02-09 at 05:18 -0500, Marc Paré wrote: Which icon set should I be using for a pamphlet I am working on? Writer, Calc, Impress, Draw, Base and Math. Can someone point me to them? Howdy Marc, list BTW - to try and help I went ahead and generated a set of png files from the svg file uploaded by Thorsten today (mime) and from the intial_ark_work.zip (front and back page logos) The png files can be found here: http://baseanswers.com/libo/icons_for_pamphlet.tar.gz and exported the pamphlet Marc and others are working on, as a draft, in case you are interested in the actual use. (Tri-fold brochure) http://baseanswers.com/libo/LibOPamphlet_03c.pdf Mark has the original odt and has/is collaborating for the text content on the US list. @Marc and others - thanks very much for working on this //drew I've updated the file with a set of corrections and misc. You can find the updated file here: www.parentreprise.com/images/LibreOffice/LibOPamphlet_03d.odt Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates
Le 2011-02-10 05:58, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Hi all, Paulo José schrieb: It seems to be very useful! Good job Jaron and Christoph! :) ... and Kevin! :-) On 09-02-2011 19:25, Christoph Noack wrote: Hi Jaron! Am Montag, den 07.02.2011, 16:36 -0500 schrieb Jaron Kuppers: Please provide feedback or direction as Kevin_Items and I move forward on developing a few templates. Thanks! If you didn't already (sorry if I don't remember every mail I read during the last week), would you mind to create a dedicated wiki page for the presentation template work? Something like http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Presentation_Templates (Any better structure idea welcome) I think it might be a good idea to collect the template categories and some more specific information there, allowing others (from other teams, if interested) to join. Best regards Bernhard FYI, if this make any difference: There is also the attempt to migrate to OOo templates to our site. But licensing issues are still being considered. It is filling up slowly. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Downloads/Templates Also, I had started this in the ideas section: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Ideas/Template_team Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice Tri-Fold Pamphlet for SCALE - final?
Le 2011-02-10 18:19, drew a écrit : Hola amigos, http://baseanswers.com/libo/LibOPamphlet_scale_9x_c.pdf Made, what I feel is a good set of final adjustments and edits - if you see something onerous yell, for myself I a comfortable with considering this one time use brochure, put to bed. Changes to 1st page, re-arrange applications for alignment - update to contact section. Second page - re-word second paragraph in document exchange section. The odt file, at the same address updated also. Will not put the scale specifc file to the wiki, after a day or two for last folks to check will remove and send to printer. Will drop a file less the scale logo to the wiki instead. @Marc, you seem the best o ask, where should I list the file for others to find? Best wishes, Drew Hi Drew: It should be listed in the Marketing- Conference Kit wiki page. I am adding resources and examples of mods as they come up. Other conference teams should be able to see prior moded resources so that they can have examples to work with. It would be nice if you could reference the master pamphlet as well as the moded SCALE pamphlet as an example on that page. We need to make is as easy as possible for our teams to gear up for conferences so that we show up as prepared as possible for the public. BTW ... I sent you a note on the US list re: one adjustment to 2 words on the pamphlet. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Wiki Page for Banner Development
Le 2011-02-17 16:04, Christoph Noack a écrit : Hi all, as announced a few hours ago, I've started to create a banner development wiki page. Although we just talk about banners, it seems that the recent activities (and thus information) are spread over several lists ... and since we get more and more requests for representing this activity for the public, it might help to keep the message consistent. As we tried (and achieved from my point-of-view) with the LibreOffice branding. So here you go: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/FoundationChallenge Please go ahead with adding content, tweaking, correcting ... other things like decisions should be at least discussed with the team. And, so to say, rather quickly :-) Thanks in advance! Cheers, Christoph PS: CCing Design Team just for information. Please reply on the website list ... Am Freitag, den 18.02.2011, 01:46 +0800 schrieb David Nelson: Thanks for doing this Christoph. May I also suggest that while some team members may get into a create/design-a-funding-banner-for-the-funding-drive mode that they may keep an eye out for any other designs that could be used just as a regular support banner for the LibreOffice suite. That is to say, banners that could be displayed on websites in support of our suite but not for any particular campaign. We could then use the as another marketing tool. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] They need graphic material, WE NEED A MOTIF!
Hi Paulo et al: Le 2011-02-19 20:04, Paulo José a écrit : I forgot to comment about the website proposal: I think its very good, very promising! :) Also I did an initial try on the banners on the size of Medium Retangle (300x250px). I think I made it simple and not very much Branding related: Light theme: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice-The-Challenge-Banner-Paulo-v1-light.png SVG Source: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice-The-Challenge-Banner-Paulo-v1-light.svg Dark theme: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice-The-Challenge-Banner-Paulo-v1-dark.png SVG Source: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice-The-Challenge-Banner-Paulo-v1-dark.svg Hide/show the layers to get German and Spanish versions. I hope I've formated these versions correctly. Soon I come back with other sizes/versions. Regards, ~Paulo Many thanks again for these banners, which are marvellous. Could these be added to the http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/FoundationChallenge page? We also need some English version of these banners for external website use. These banners not only serve the purpose of helping with the funding drive but also promote the LibreOffice brand on external sites. Once we have enough of these banners in various sizes and languages, we should make an announcement on the mailing lists letting our membership know of their availability. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] They need graphic material, WE NEED A MOTIF!
Hi Nik: Le 2011-02-20 09:18, Nik a écrit : I will respectfully disagree on this point. If we have a Design motif, we won't /have/ to answer the outstanding requests: we will empower the community to do it themselves in a manner more consistent to the way we would do it if we had the time. Having it as a basis will prevent many community members thinking about creating a new Design from scratch. I think this currently happens because there is a lack of graphic resources for people to use if they have to make, for example, a CD label. But with an easily available motif, we would be addressing that shortage. And I don't think its a matter of restriction, its a matter of facilitation. It will help US as much as the community... Imagine we are asked to make business cards tomorrow, urgently; - We will use the logo, that is the one fixed element - The rest is up to the Designer really, they will probably use the borders from the icons because that is consistent with all the Designs so far, but realistically, what good are borders on a business card? especially when bleed is so crucial. - They might use the vignette, but radial gradients band on poor printers - They might use a corner, that would be nice, but overall the card would look bland and unexciting. Having a Design motif (or a few variations of one style) would give us immediately an additional resource to use when tackling every new Design task. It will also mean that every task will look more consistent than if there were no recurring motif. My apologies for butting in: This is exactly what is happening. This is the reason why I started organising the Marketing resources wiki pages[1] so that we could eventually start being more consistent. Once the design motif is completed it will certainly help the marketing team. Keep up the great work people! Cheers Marc [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-design] Logo(s) for external use -- Support logo, Grayscale and b/w
Many thanks for the LibreOffice logo(s) for external use. Is there any way to get some Support logo(s) as well? Something like Support LibreOffice or I Support LibreOffice as subline. We would need a few different versions for external use. Also, should we also have a Grayscale and b/w version of any LibreOffice logos that are destined for external use? I am thinking of people/groups/clubs printing a local newsletter who would want to include any of the logos for their members etc. We should perhaps have the same formats as the internal logos available as the official set: Grayscale Logo, Black/White Logo, Inverted Logo. Should we offer the Color Logo Basic as well? These would all be offered in the different sizes as well, just to make it easy for people to download. We want to get our logo out to as many people/groups/clubs as possible. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-design] Logo(s) for external use -- Support logo, Grayscale and b/w
Le 2011-02-21 09:00, Dr. Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Hi Marc, * Marc Paré wrote: Many thanks for the LibreOffice logo(s) for external use. Is there any way to get some Support logo(s) as well? Something like Support LibreOffice or I Support LibreOffice as subline. We would need a few different versions for external use. I don't think that these people need a logo - they need a button or something similar. A subline might be reasonable for dedicated groups to describe their position in relation to the community / TDF. - community member after approval by the membership committee. - community distributor after agreement to some distribution rules. - xxx team member if there is a way to define a team (not sure about that) In my opinion these logos can be used to reward activity and dedication to the community. Being a supporter is too vague for me... A button I support LibreOffice is definitively a very good option, but it needs to be designed in a way that respects the whitespace area around the logo. Also, should we also have a Grayscale and b/w version of any LibreOffice logos that are destined for external use? Yes - I just haven't had the time to create them. I am thinking of people/groups/clubs printing a local newsletter who would want to include any of the logos for their members etc. We should perhaps have the same formats as the internal logos available as the official set: Grayscale Logo, Black/White Logo, Inverted Logo. Should we offer the Color Logo Basic as well? Yes - but I'd like to see it with the grey tone of the contemporary logo instead of the pure black. And we need CMYK vector versions as well as spot color descriptions (Pantone, HKS ...). I wanted to have at least anything as resource to use. As we have much more to do right now, I would wait for people asking for special versions of the logo before spending time with creating additional versions nobody really needs at the moment. We might have an improved version of the logo soon - so I don't think it is worth the time to create all the versions right now. These would all be offered in the different sizes as well, just to make it easy for people to download. We want to get our logo out to as many people/groups/clubs as possible. We should offer our standard logo for easy download. But except of an inverted logo for dark backgrounds I'd like to point people to this mailing list, if they want to use different versions. If somebody has the time and interest to work on this topic, he/she is welcome to create even more logo versions. In the end we'll have all the versions you mentioned, but I want to concentrate on IMHO more important topics - and as they include the logo improvement (Joey mentioned kerning and ligatures) this work might have to be repeated soon. Best regards Bernhard All OK with me. I would like to start encouraging website owners to: 1. show banners supporting the funding drive 2. show banners/logo supporting LibreOffice It would be great is we could offer people different sizes to pick from. The funding drive would be the most important for now, just in case the donations slow. It may helpful to get our funding banners on external sites. There are very few banners to choose from the Foundation Challenge wiki page[1]. We should have sizes that would fit the most likely locations of external sites. IMO, large banners are OK, but external sites are more likely to want left/right block areas to hang our banners. Thanks for the reply and the help. Cheers Marc [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/FoundationChallenge -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] They need graphic material, WE NEED A MOTIF!
Le 2011-02-21 23:18, Paulo José a écrit : Hi Marc, I just forgot to reply this one... On 19-02-2011 23:31, Marc Paré wrote: [...] Many thanks again for these banners, which are marvellous. Thank you! :) Could these be added to the http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/FoundationChallenge page? We also need some English version of these banners for external website use. Sorry, I can't help. These days I'm getting some problems to edit wiki pages with tables and non-trivial stuff. Maybe it's just me, but it happens on Chrome and Firefox. :/ Could you help me with it? These banners not only serve the purpose of helping with the funding drive but also promote the LibreOffice brand on external sites. Once we have enough of these banners in various sizes and languages, we should make an announcement on the mailing lists letting our membership know of their availability. Thanks for this explanation (I was thinking to ask something like that actually). Sadly today I had no time (my classes started today and then I've many work to do... :/ But I'll try to work on more proposals soon. :) Cheers, ~Paulo I have no problem adding these to the http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/FoundationChallenge page, but before I do, is there some kind of Design group approval process to go through before these go on the wiki page? I am part of the group but really concentrate on the Marketing team group. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-design] English LibreOffice Challenge flyer to be used at SCALE with QR artwork for cellphone
The US team has just finished putting together a LibreOffice Challenge flyer[1] that is to be used at this upcoming SCALE. We are hoping to use the flyer. Have a look see and we hope to have followed the branding guidelines. Let us know if there is anything wrong and try to fix it. The flyer will be printed on white paper stock and cut in half. Our deadline for the final version is tomorrow afternoon! Sorry for the short notice. Cheers Marc [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Libo-challenge-enGrayBox.odt -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-design] LibreOffice Challenge Banners and resources
I am just curious, some LibreOffice Challenge banners have been shown off on this list but for some reason they have not been linked on any pages so that they may be put to good use. Am I to assume that I could just gather these and link then on the LibreOffice Challenge wiki page[1] myself and keep this page up to date? The marketing section has a menu item pointing to the page[2] but some of the banners are just sitting on the threads and no other comments have been offered on them. I would them assume that, having no other comments on these that they are ready for use? Should we just put them up on this page and put them to use? We would still need an English version of the Skyscraper 1600x1600 to be completed on that page too. Thanks for any comments and thanks for the great artwork! Cheers Marc [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/FoundationChallenge#Proposals [2] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-design] Request for DFD + LibreOffice banner for flyer in EN, DE, FR, ES
I know this is extremely short notice, but ... If any of you have some time to put together a banner for a flyer that we could use at the SCALE conference promoting the Document Freedom Day[1] and LibreOffice's support for it, we would be really appreciative. SCALE is happening this weekend. We would need it sometime by Wednesday night as Drew will have to print them up. An English banner would be what we are looking for. Even if this is not possible in such a short time frame, we could still use the banner and post if on our wiki resource pages for people to use at conferences, LUG, etc. The flyer will be printed on white stock paper in b/w. It will be based on the format of Challenge Flyer[2] that we have put together. Printed on half page and cut into two. Thanks for any consideration and help. Cheers Marc [1] DFD artwork and banners http://documentfreedom.org/2011/artwork.en.html [2] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Libo-challenge-enGrayBox.odt -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Request for Challenge logo in ES and DE and FRA
Le 2011-02-22 18:51, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Hi Marc, Marc Paré schrieb: Could anyone rework DRodirguez' grayscale logo found on the wiki challenge page[1] into ES, DE, and FRA. The US team would like to rework a recent flyer[2] in these languages but it would be nice if someone could do this for us? We are just getting the text body ready for the flyer. Sorry, I don't have the time to do so. Daniel didn't provide his source file (IIRC), but you or anybody else could use the SVG source of Christoph's banner proposal: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/b/b2/2011-02-19v2_LibreOffice_FoundationChallenge_Banner.svg Just turn the Green to grey and replace the English wording by the other languages should be possible. Best regards Bernhard Thanks Bernhard. Will do. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Request for DFD + LibreOffice banner for flyer in EN, DE, FR, ES
Le 2011-02-22 17:25, Marc Paré a écrit : I know this is extremely short notice, but ... If any of you have some time to put together a banner for a flyer that we could use at the SCALE conference promoting the Document Freedom Day[1] and LibreOffice's support for it, we would be really appreciative. SCALE is happening this weekend. We would need it sometime by Wednesday night as Drew will have to print them up. An English banner would be what we are looking for. Even if this is not possible in such a short time frame, we could still use the banner and post if on our wiki resource pages for people to use at conferences, LUG, etc. The flyer will be printed on white stock paper in b/w. It will be based on the format of Challenge Flyer[2] that we have put together. Printed on half page and cut into two. Thanks for any consideration and help. Cheers Marc [1] DFD artwork and banners http://documentfreedom.org/2011/artwork.en.html [2] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Libo-challenge-enGrayBox.odt Just a follow up on this. Italo said on the Website list that he is speaking with the FSF on this and will get back to us. On hold till Italo gets back to us. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] You've got hate-mail
Le 2011-02-23 10:01, Nik a écrit : Hullo Design, For anyone not subscribed to the Marketing list, one of their members found this online; http://thelinuxbox.org/news.php?2011/02/21/an-open-letter-to-the-libre-office-design-team.html Do we have a Sean Parsons on this list? -Nik Ahem ... I think using Hate mail is a little too strong. This would make it impossible for this individual to join our team(s) if he decided to join and to contribute or submit proposals. Let's just say that he had his reasons for posting and let's take the high road and offer him a place here where he could be part of the group rather than being on the outside. This is, IMHO, a better approach to take even. This is not the first or last time we will be criticised. Cheers Marc Disclaimer: I do not know Sean Parsons at all, nor have I ever had any correspondence with him. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] banner after 50.000 EUR
Le 2011-02-23 10:46, Florian Effenberger a écrit : Hello, sorry if this has been raised before, but do we already have a banner for the time after we have the 50.000 €? It will be within the next days, I guess, and we will go on collecting funds, see http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/02/23/you-are-our-rockstars/ for details. Maybe some surplus counter with the amount of money we received after the capital stock? Thanks, Florian Hi Florian: Thanks for the blog! Exactly what was needed for LibreOffice to communicate to the outside world. Awesome article. I am sure this will be quickly picked up by many media outlets. The fact that the amount is/was reached at such a high pace is a great show of support from outside communities. The part in the blog that is most important now is for what the excess money will be used. You provided good information on this. Not only that, the articles provides just about any other question that people will have about the funds Really great. I now that I keep harping on this but ... banners for external websites, in different sizes would be appreciated too. They should be posted on our wiki pages and advertised as available on our website for visitor download. (I would think sizes that are compatible with left/right website blocks (columns) would be the ones that would be most sought after). Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-design] Challenge banner proposals by Paulo on Design wiki page
I have put Paulo's banner proposals on the Design wiki page (proposals) section so that they would not get lost in the threads. Let me know if I should have put them at some other location. Cheers Marc [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/FoundationChallenge#Proposals -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] [approval request] Challenge banner proposals by Paulo
Le 2011-02-24 19:05, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Hi Marc, Paulo, all I'm stepping in here and merge three topics I want to post my comments for nearly a week now... With the tag [approval request] I want threads to be marked where the entire design team should vote for some artwork to become official. First topic: collecting design proposals in a dedicated area of the respective wiki pages Marc Paré schrieb: I have put Paulo's banner proposals on the Design wiki page (proposals) section so that they would not get lost in the threads. Thanks a lot! Let me know if I should have put them at some other location. No - not at the moment. Later on we could have a more distinct area for proposals and ideas, but for the moment it's the right place IMHO. 2nd topic: Approval of Paulo's skyscraper banner I would ask you to approve the skyscraper (160x600px) vertical banner as official design element to be used on external websites: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice-The-Challenge-Banner-Paulo-v2-dark.png This banner is perfect in my eyes: It is distinct from our branding (still don't know if can't create design following our branding, but showing clearly that the artwork doesn't want to pretend to be on a TDF site, but link to us), but keeps (even in the dark theme) the clear, friendly and open language of our branding. It contains elements dedicated to this special action item. Even on the dark theme the main tone is a lighter grey. The very distinct font in the middle part contrasts very well with the bold characters of the upper and lower part. Several people already posted their positive opinion on this proposal, so I ask all of you to vote by +1 or -1 if you want to present this vertical banner as part of the (still to be created) official design/marketing material repository. My vote is: +1 +1 Third topic: The 300x250px rectangle banners Even if several team members like these banners too, I personally think that they might look even better, if they could be modified a bit. That's the reason why I don't ask for approval for these banners too. Looking at the motif discussion (I support it - even if I didn't have the time to comment by now), I would like to see the graphic at the donate button to be discussed in this thread: It combines known elements (triangles, colors) to a new distinct element. As this is the only colored element on the banner, my feeling is, that it leads too far away from our present branding. If we would integrate it as central branding element, it would fit very well here... But at the moment I could imagine one of our present elements better. And another thought: In comparison to the skyscraper banner the wording is focused on The Challenge in the middle, while the logo above has a bolder font than the text below. This leads (in my personal opinion - not at all the absolute truth) to some kind of imbalance with the more heavy parts at the top. If they would be taken as title, this would be okay, but without more text below (building a good foundation just be the larger area filled) I don't feel totally comfortable. Perhaps I would feel better, if the areas would be switched (like on the skyscraper?) - I don't know. But I wanted to let you know - as well as the fact, that these comments are part of my high regard for your skills. I like the buttons very well as they are (even if I like the skyscraper a bit more ;-)) and would not veto if some other team member wanted to get them approved as official design right now. Best regards Bernhard [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/FoundationChallenge#Proposals -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] A personal note
Hi Paulo Le 2011-02-25 00:21, Paulo José a écrit : Hi everybody! I'm here just to explain the reason of my absence: my classes started this week and they have been almost full-time. So I'm not frustrated or something else, I'm just having no time at all to read and reply all the emails. But I'll do that in this weekend. Thanks for complaining and sorry for not doing more banners, like I've sad. ~Paulo On the contrary, I, for one, am very gratefull at the work you have done already. No problem with you being busy with your classes. Many thanks for the help. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-design] GreyScale banner proposal -- vote?
Could we also have a vote on Daniel Rodiguez' LibreOffice Foundation Challenge Greyscale Banner in the proposals section[1]? (.png here[2] We have a need for a Greyscale banner for use on white stock paper and this banner suits perfectly. We are using a flyer based on this banner at the SCALE conference this weekend[3]. +1 for me Cheers Marc [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/FoundationChallenge#Proposals [2] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_FoundationChallenge_Greyscale_Banner.png [3] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Challenge#LibreOffice_Challenge -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-design] GreyScale banner proposal -- vote?
Le 2011-02-25 10:57, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Hi Marc, Daniel, all, Marc Paré wrote: Could we also have a vote on Daniel Rodiguez' LibreOffice Foundation Challenge Greyscale Banner in the proposals section[1]? http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_FoundationChallenge_Greyscale_Banner.png If we wouldn't have reached the 5 challenge, I'd vote for it. But now it needs some overhaul. Perhaps Daniel (or anybody else) could change the wording to some thank you and keep on donating ... And while you are updating the text - could you try to have the grey background a bit lighter (or a gradient lighter to the top)? I think the difference between the Libre part and the background could be a bit more to improve the contrast of the logo... We have a need for a Greyscale banner for use on white stock paper and this banner suits perfectly. We are using a flyer based on this banner at the SCALE conference this weekend[3]. If you already finalized the flyer, please go for it. In this case the banner can be considered as official design element from my side too. Best regards Bernhard Thanks. As far as SCALE goes, Drew left yesterday for SCALE and before Florian's note on the lists. So, I guess it is too late for this. Great, maybe Daniel could update the banner and maybe supply the .svg as more NL groups are interested in the flyer. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-design] GreyScale banner proposal -- vote?
Le 2011-02-26 15:47, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Marc Paré schrieb: Le 2011-02-25 10:57, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Hi Marc, Daniel, all, Marc Paré wrote: Could we also have a vote on Daniel Rodiguez' LibreOffice Foundation Challenge Greyscale Banner in the proposals section[1]? http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_FoundationChallenge_Greyscale_Banner.png If we wouldn't have reached the 5 challenge, I'd vote for it. But now it needs some overhaul. Perhaps Daniel (or anybody else) could change the wording to some thank you and keep on donating ... And while you are updating the text - could you try to have the grey background a bit lighter (or a gradient lighter to the top)? I think the difference between the Libre part and the background could be a bit more to improve the contrast of the logo... We have a need for a Greyscale banner for use on white stock paper and this banner suits perfectly. We are using a flyer based on this banner at the SCALE conference this weekend[3]. If you already finalized the flyer, please go for it. In this case the banner can be considered as official design element from my side too. Best regards Bernhard Hi Bernhard: Would these do? I made some up for EN, FR, ES http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_FoundationChallenge_Banner_EN_ES_FR.svg I would leave the challenge out of the new banner. In my eyes the challenge was to get 5 euro in less than 6 weeks - and we passed this challenge with flying colors. Now our goal are more donations for our everyday work. So the text should cover this. Perhaps we could ask the marketing team for proposals? Best regards Bernhard Hi Bernhard: The text was pulled from Florian's note on the website list: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.website/3936 But we could certainly get more proposals. We may be at the end of the fundraising period by the time this we get this done. I noticed that there is no longer a date countdown on the main banner. Is the end date still being advertised? Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] You've got hate-mail
Le 2011-02-27 12:16, Nik a écrit : Hi Marc, all, On 2/24/2011 2:58 AM, Marc Paré wrote: Le 2011-02-23 10:01, Nik a écrit : Do we have a Sean Parsons on this list? -Nik Ahem ... I think using Hate mail is a little too strong. This would make it impossible for this individual to join our team(s) if he decided to join and to contribute or submit proposals. It must just be my abrupt sense of humour, which is often lost-in-translation in Email Having said that, I don't think we can afford to be precious about strong words in the subject of this email when some stronger words are in question in this article. Let's just say that he had his reasons for posting and let's take the high road and offer him a place here where he could be part of the group rather than being on the outside. This is, IMHO, a better approach to take even. This is not the first or last time we will be criticised. Marc, you can take the moral high-road if you prefer. I'd rather get to the heart of the problem. And it *IS* a problem. It's not just feedback, it's not just criticism, Designers are good at handling both. We receive it here daily. This is shameless self-promotion at the cost of a community while hiding behind that same community's generosity. If this were some member of the public with no knowledge of our workings, It wouldn't phase me. But instead, we have a member of our community, who, instead of discussing it here with us and forging a better result, chose instead to publicise his lack of support due to a number of /subjective/ Design opinions. And mentioned us *explicitly*. Lots of people are on this list, most of them for a good reason: they want to further our cause Some are on it for other reasons: they want their Designs approved or else they will whine on the internet until someone listens. Look it's clear Sean has a defense-team already protecting his right to complain despite the damage it would do to us as a team. So instead, I'll aim this generally at everyone on this list; If you REALLY care about this project, and something doesn't go the way you'd like, just talk it out here. Or Email privately. *Anyone writing open letters to us on the internet knows full-well that it is as likely to be picked up by the press as it is our team.* And anyone interested in voicing their opinion at the expense of our team, isn't in it to benefit us at all. Just themselves. You can paint me as the devil, but I've disagreed with plenty of choices made here, but not once have I been tempted to complain about that elsewhere. It's the difference between a frank discussion and idle gossip. -Nik Thanks for the reply and your thoughts. I would agree with you if this were a recurrent problem with this individual. However, we should just give it all the benefit of the doubt and say that it may have been brought on by an over-exuberance of opinion in a public forum. It's a shame it happened this way. People all have the right to express themselves where ever and however they want. Sometimes people will just make mistakes and learn from it. I am sure that if this were to re-occur often, unfortunately, this member would find it difficult to work on our teams. Let's just say that it was un faux pas and just go on from there. I am sure we can all work together cooperatively. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-design] Re: Wallpapers in the Design wiki
Le 2011-02-28 15:31, Christoph Noack a écrit : Hi Paulo, all! Paulo, thanks for the wallpaper source files! Since they are so precious, I've created a small page for all our wallpaper development work. It closely relates to the Marketing Wallpaper page, but ... * Marketing wiki -- official download for end-users * Design wiki -- development work, documentation and source files So here is the new page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Wallpapers Linked from within: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design#Work_Items If there is general agreement that this might be helpful, I'll ask on the Marketing list (maybe people are listening here as well) to refer to our new page. Cheers, Christoph Hi Christoph This is great! In fact, if you just inform the marketing team of new available wallpapers on the wiki we will update our wiki. But, yes, if you feel like it, feel free to update our wiki page with any new wallpaper sets. Our marketing wallpaper pages will also be visited by regular users for download purposes. So, it is good that they not see anything that is not approved by the design team. It would be good if the approval process were a little more streamlined. It is often difficult to figure out what has been approved and what is not approved. If this were made more clearly on the design pages it would really help. The marketing team should not be using designs that have not been approved by the design team. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-design] LibreOffice Funding Challenge Flyer update
Just wanted to pass this through the design list to show an update to the LibreOffice Funding Challenge Flyer updated with the 50 000Euro removed.[1] New banner and updated text. Have a look. We will be making it available on the marketing pages for people needing a quick flyer during the fundraising challenge period ending March 21st. Cheers Marc [1] http://www.parentreprise.com/images/LibreOffice/Libo-challenge-enGrayBoxNew2.odt -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-design] Re: [us-marketing] North American Community DVD - cover art updated
Le 2011-04-14 13:05, drew a écrit : On Fri, 2011-04-15 at 02:47 +1000, Nik wrote: Hi Drew, I know it's a bit late in the thread, but I just wanted to pop in and say great work on the CD/DVD case. Another step towards a better LibO user experience! I had a similar idea brewing that I'll elaborate on in a few weeks, I don't think it will undermine your efforts (I think it might be complimentary... and based on something you said, I think you might like it =). I know it is - that is great to see the submissions you made this morning - I have put it to use already and I think everyone will see immediately that is better - truth is I was surprised by the quite on the design list from that cover, because it was 'scatter-esque' at best.. The latest update, with your latest graphics can be found here: http://lo-portal.us/temp/na-dvd-case-04-11-14.png Tim, Jeff, et al - this is a blending of the white and green background, it gives the cover a nice depth I think - and then use of the real scatter motif for the front. I did leave the scatter-esque graphic for the background on the back, which I think really works well. Sorry for touching this again, but this is an improvement I think. Thanks again Nik, Drew Hi Drew Sorry if this has been covered before. On the back panel bottom, the bottom logos -- the 3 right hand logos. Was there ever any talk of moving the LibreOfice is a trademark of the Document Foundation www.documentfoundation.orgto the front panel (bottom)? This would allow all logos on the back panel to sit on the same line. It just looks like the bottom line of logos needs to be adjusted. Alternatively, there should be space to move the LibreOffice trademark notice above the logos rather than below those 3 icons. Great work on the case work! Cheers Marc (slowly getting back to contributing) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: Logos for support standards ( was : North American Community DVD - cover art updated )
Le 2011-04-16 10:09, drew a écrit : On Sat, 2011-04-16 at 08:36 -0400, Marc Paré wrote: Sorry if this has been covered before. On the back panel bottom, the bottom logos -- the 3 right hand logos. Was there ever any talk of moving the LibreOfice is a trademark of the Document Foundation No - actually I just stuck them there, thought some might ask about them, but till now, not really. I arranged them, specifically to try an not have yet another straight line, rather to pull the eye upwards in an angle, reminiscent of the notch on the upper corners - but again all is open of change. www.documentfoundation.orgto the front panel (bottom)? This would allow all logos on the back panel to sit on the same line. It just looks like the bottom line of logos needs to be adjusted. Alternatively, there should be space to move the LibreOffice trademark notice above the logos rather than below those 3 icons. That is one approach..anyone else have a thought on that? Thanks Drew I just threw together the changes I suggested with the Gimp and here is what I was suggesting ftp://www.parentreprise.com/images/LibreOffice/800px-Lrge-cover-alt-3Marc.png Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: Logos for support standards ( was : North American Community DVD - cover art updated )
Le 2011-04-18 22:20, Marc Paré a écrit : Le 2011-04-18 22:18, Marc Paré a écrit : Le 2011-04-16 10:09, drew a écrit : On Sat, 2011-04-16 at 08:36 -0400, Marc Paré wrote: Sorry if this has been covered before. On the back panel bottom, the bottom logos -- the 3 right hand logos. Was there ever any talk of moving the LibreOfice is a trademark of the Document Foundation No - actually I just stuck them there, thought some might ask about them, but till now, not really. I arranged them, specifically to try an not have yet another straight line, rather to pull the eye upwards in an angle, reminiscent of the notch on the upper corners - but again all is open of change. www.documentfoundation.org to the front panel (bottom)? This would allow all logos on the back panel to sit on the same line. It just looks like the bottom line of logos needs to be adjusted. Alternatively, there should be space to move the LibreOffice trademark notice above the logos rather than below those 3 icons. That is one approach..anyone else have a thought on that? Thanks Drew I just threw together the changes I suggested with the Gimp and here is what I was suggesting ftp://www.parentreprise.com/images/LibreOffice/800px-Lrge-cover-alt-3Marc.png Marc Oops, that won't get it for you just http://www.parentreprise.com/public_html/images/LibreOffice/800px-Lrge-cover-alt-3Marc.png Marc LOL OK I'll try again! http://www.parentreprise.com/images/LibreOffice/800px-Lrge-cover-alt-3Marc.png I should get some sleep (*grin*) Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [en] NA-Comm-DVD Label
Le 2011-04-20 21:20, drew a écrit : Hi, One more change to the label for the NA-Comm-DVD. Addressed some concerns on trademark, from the US mktg ml. Swapped SVG logo for one a bit more descriptive and moved a few things around, per Marc's comments. Removed overall green frame, except spine and updated the scatter element to give it much more prominence. Softened the sactter-esque watermark on back cover, and adjusted other elements. Updated the file on the wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Existing_Designs#Case Thanks Drew Thanks for update Drew. I was just wondering, what is the purpose of the black dot under English. Should this be erased? Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [en] NA-Comm-DVD Label
Le 2011-04-21 10:34, drew a écrit : On Thu, 2011-04-21 at 10:30 -0400, Marc Paré wrote: Le 2011-04-20 21:20, drew a écrit : Hi, One more change to the label for the NA-Comm-DVD. Addressed some concerns on trademark, from the US mktg ml. Swapped SVG logo for one a bit more descriptive and moved a few things around, per Marc's comments. Removed overall green frame, except spine and updated the scatter element to give it much more prominence. Softened the sactter-esque watermark on back cover, and adjusted other elements. Updated the file on the wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Existing_Designs#Case Thanks Drew Thanks for update Drew. I was just wondering, what is the purpose of the black dot under English. Should this be erased? huh - a beauty mark perhaps...*chuckle*...yeah, will excise that. Thanks again for the excellent work on the label. Looks great! It will make for a great template for other groups if they wish to adopt the same label. I really like the scatter on the label The only other criticism I would have is the slogan. I would suggest moving the slogan moved beneath the LibreOffice title on the back page. I am not sure if the marketing team has chosen an official slogan as of yet, but this slogan seems to be the most quoted slogan from the list. It does seem to exemplify our collective understanding of our distro. It just seems to me that from a readability point of view that a user would read LibreOffice - Freedom Never Tasted So Suite more easily than Freedom Never Tasted So Suite - LibreOffice. It may also look a little more presentable with the larger title of LibreOffice first followed by the slogan underneath it. (icon) LibreOffice Freedom Never Tasted So Suite! What do you think? Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [en] NA-Comm-DVD Label
Hi Drew -- Sorry, I had originally only posted to the US-Marketing but re-sent it to all the lists you have posted Le 2011-04-22 11:25, drew a écrit : On Thu, 2011-04-21 at 11:10 -0400, Marc Paré wrote: Le 2011-04-21 10:34, drew a écrit : On Thu, 2011-04-21 at 10:30 -0400, Marc Paré wrote: Le 2011-04-20 21:20, drew a écrit : Hi, One more change to the label for the NA-Comm-DVD. Addressed some concerns on trademark, from the US mktg ml. Swapped SVG logo for one a bit more descriptive and moved a few things around, per Marc's comments. Removed overall green frame, except spine and updated the scatter element to give it much more prominence. Softened the sactter-esque watermark on back cover, and adjusted other elements. Updated the file on the wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Existing_Designs#Case Thanks Drew Thanks for update Drew. I was just wondering, what is the purpose of the black dot under English. Should this be erased? huh - a beauty mark perhaps...*chuckle*...yeah, will excise that. Thanks again for the excellent work on the label. Looks great! It will make for a great template for other groups if they wish to adopt the same label. I really like the scatter on the label The only other criticism I would have is the slogan. I would suggest moving the slogan moved beneath the LibreOffice title on the back page. snip What do you think? Hi Marc, Did that, and the slogan just kept wanting to move south...so I accommodated it. After that, it just yelled at me to do something with the front...so I listened again. Finally, the ODF logo screamed so I borrowed from here and there, did a little aggregating and a little touch with the airbrush tool and well..see for yourself. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Existing_Designs#Case The source file is at: http://lo-portal.us/temp/na-dvd-case-04-11-22c.xcf What do you think? - I think this is looking damned good now, thanks to all feedback. Also, that I need to move on to a jewel case layout. Best wishes, Drew Nice work. I like the placement of the slogan! After having read the functions of the modules, people get that extra slogan to motivate the use of the product! Not sure if I like the placement of the two logos on the front cover. I think, strategically speaking, that all logos (pdf, odf, svg, cc by--SA, lgpl) would be better kept on the back. This is where the supporting information is situated. I also prefer the Windows is a registered ... Apple Inc. at the back below the 5 logos and the LibreOffice ... www.documentfoundation.org on the front, as this gives us some additional advertisement for the TDF. The trademark assertions for Windows and Apple are there to satisfy the mention of the trademark names and I don't think we need to give it more prominence than it needs. We need to make people aware of the TDF rather than relegating it to second position on the back cover. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [en] NA-Comm-DVD Label
Hi Bernhard and especially Drew We are really down to nit-picking but some of these points do seem valid. Le 2011-04-22 18:12, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Hi Drew, Finally, the ODF logo screamed so I borrowed from here and there, did a little aggregating and a little touch with the airbrush tool and well..see for yourself. Without you mentioning it, I would have not realized. You created a new ODF logo? And where did you get the SVG logo? They look very good side by side (and in large scale you see the differences between the sheets behind them, so it is clear that they don't belong together). For a new iteration I have the idea to give the ODF logo more importance by enlarging it while the other two (PDF and SVG) as external file formats we can import and export to (in raising quality) might be smaller ? I agree with this. I would give first place setting in the list to the ODF logo. LibreOffice and ODF have a strong bond and we should be actively promoting the ODF even at marketing booths. After all, this is what makes the LibreOffice formats so dependable. The other logos should show up in secondary placement on the lists. I am not sure that the ODF would be happy to know that we have created a new logo just as I am pretty sure that we would not be happy to find that another organisation would have created another logo to fit their documentation. We should try as much as possible to fit in a proper ODF and SVG logo. I noticed on the SVG site that they make use of different logos. We could leave a note with the W3C-SVG people to see if they have a logo (with descriptor) available on their site (http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/) (Note that there is one at the top of that page.). Not really sure where to get ODF logo versions. Where did you get your ODF version? I couldn't find any ODF site with an ODF logo. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Existing_Designs#Case The source file is at: http://lo-portal.us/temp/na-dvd-case-04-11-22c.xcf What do you think? - Much more feedback than I originally wanted... And lots of criticism (I hope you take it as thoughts - not as critics) instead of the praise you deserve. One point I'd like to mention nevertheless: Did the NA-DVD team think about using the logo with TDF subline now you are official part of the LibreOffice-Box team (or how it will be called in future)? Even as NA marketing team this would have been possible, but now I don't see any reason (perhaps except the approval of some of your team members by the Membership Committee) to refrain from the TDF logo as you are: An official part of the LibreOffice community - and your DVD seems to fall under the part of the logo policy that reads: TDF approved DVDs or USB keys with 'LibreOffice' [1] I also agree with this. Not too sure if I missed a conversation on this while I was away but ... are we not part of the LibreOffice-Box team? Was there a decision to go without the subline or are we just waiting for an approval? We also seem to be spearheading/setting an example for an English version of an international EN-box DVD version. I would love to see the logo with TDF subline on the NA Community DVD. It adds validity to the project. I think this is looking damned good now, thanks to all feedback. And here I fully agree. You don't need to integrate the points I commented - it is really good! It's just meant as suggestion to think about for the next iteration... Also, that I need to move on to a jewel case layout. This would be great - we definitively need such artwork. Best regards Bernhard PS: I updated the branding page [2] a bit because it didn't explain the difference between logo with and without TDF subline clearly enough and added a link to the logo policy. We probably have to add more examples for several use cases - perhaps already with the overdue iteration of the branding page. [1]: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Logo_Policy [2]: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Resources Thanks for doing this Bernhard. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] NA-Comm-DVD Label
Hi Bernhard and Drew Le 2011-04-23 04:13, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : I only see the W3C logo there... The SVG logo (orange flower) used by drew on previous versions seems not to be used very much, as Google images don't show more than just the source page... (http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/) I see the orange SVG logo at the top of the page. I have found the logo site for SVG here: http://www.w3.org/2009/08/svg-logos.html Not really sure where to get ODF logo versions. Where did you get your ODF version? I couldn't find any ODF site with an ODF logo. The bird is (part of) the ODF community logo. I don't have a link at hand, but you'll find it easily via Google (or any other search engine ;-) ) Thanks for the tip to search on the ODF community logo. I found the 2 logos here: http://opendocument.xml.org/wiki/odf-community-logo The suggested smaller logo also has a folded page that is opposite of the LibreOffice logo. Neat! Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [en] NA-Comm-DVD Label
Hi Drew: Le 2011-04-23 04:39, drew a écrit : http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Lrge-cover-alt-3.png Looks like your post showed in my mailing list before I posted my previous note. Anyway, yes, these logos now look great! The slogan looks a little strange with the Suite!, alone, on that line. Could you have the So Suite! on the second line? I know that you are worried about the line looking shorter above the logo line, but I think it would look nicer than with the Suite! alone. Thanks also for moving the trademark notices. Looks great! The only last criticism is the CC by-SA and the LGPL logos. Would these fit better on the line of logos on the back? If not, the front is OK. It's just that for most normal users, these 2 logos will have very little meaning. If we could move these 2 logos to the back line of logos, I think this would look more meaningful and sensible. I would suggest again keeping the ODF as the first logo. If we were to list them strategically, the ODF list would be the formats first - ODF, PDF, SVG followed by the 2 licenses. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [en] NA-Comm-DVD Label
Le 2011-04-23 04:52, drew a écrit : On Fri, 2011-04-22 at 19:53 -0400, Marc Paré wrote: Not sure if I like the placement of the two logos on the front cover. Howdy Mark. Here I disagree - IMO the two new elements on the front make a large improvement. No problem then. I think, strategically speaking, that all logos (pdf, odf, svg, cc by--SA, lgpl) would be better kept on the back. This is where the supporting information is situated. I also prefer the Windows is a registered ... Apple Inc. at the back below the 5 logos and the LibreOffice ... www.documentfoundation.org on the front, Done Thanks Drew Looks great! Thanks for all the work and patience. I know it gets frustrating at times. Awesome work! Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: NA-Comm-DVD Label
Le 2011-04-23 04:44, Marc Paré a écrit : Hi Bernhard and Drew Le 2011-04-23 04:13, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : I only see the W3C logo there... The SVG logo (orange flower) used by drew on previous versions seems not to be used very much, as Google images don't show more than just the source page... (http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/) I see the orange SVG logo at the top of the page. I have found the logo site for SVG here: http://www.w3.org/2009/08/svg-logos.html Not really sure where to get ODF logo versions. Where did you get your ODF version? I couldn't find any ODF site with an ODF logo. The bird is (part of) the ODF community logo. I don't have a link at hand, but you'll find it easily via Google (or any other search engine ;-) ) Thanks for the tip to search on the ODF community logo. I found the 2 logos here: http://opendocument.xml.org/wiki/odf-community-logo The suggested smaller logo also has a folded page that is opposite of the LibreOffice logo. Neat! Cheers Marc I read somewhere that for adoption in the US for institutional use, any piece of software has to meet strict guidelines concerning accessibility conformance. I don't think that LibreOffice has reached this point yet -- I hope someone can say the opposite. When we do reach this point we will have to add an accessibility logo which is governed by the W3C. The logo is found here: http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG1-Conformance Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [en] NA-Comm-DVD Label
Le 2011-04-23 05:26, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : PS: When you finished the label, we should ask the other LibreOffice-Box teams, if they would feel comfortable with a similar design - so we can define an official community DVD design... +1 Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: Little problem with the Vegur font
Le 2011-04-24 13:40, RGB ES a écrit : 2011/4/24 RGB ESrgb.m...@gmail.com: SIL have a couple of them: http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsicat_id=FontDownloads I'll test them soon. It seems that couple was the right statement: they have exactly two, one of them only as regular. Sophia Nubian have all the simple diacritics on place and looks quite well http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?item_id=SophiaNubian I think the most complete sans serif font are DejaVu Sans http://dejavu-fonts.org/wiki/Main_Page and FreeSans http://www.gnu.org/software/freefont/ but... well, they are not my favourite fonts. Cheers Ricardo I know that there had been a discussion somewhat about this previously on this list.[1] The missing characters was a known problem with the Vegur font. I think there was also talk of an eventual font replacement. Maybe we have gotten to that point and there is now a need to adopt a more appropriate and usable font. Marc [1] http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.design/365 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: Little problem with the Vegur font
Le 2011-04-25 04:47, drew a écrit : Alright well my feedback is that this isn't going so well. I installed the file referenced in the email, under Linux 64bt (Ubuntu) GNOME (a few times - with and without the old vegur files on the system) Results [GIMP and InkScape] - only light font is available. Regular, Medium and Bold actually use the Light font. Space character is so small that the break between words is for all intent an purpose none-existent. - the height metric changed a bit, the updated font is slightly taller then it was from the Oct 2010 files Results [LibreOffice (3.3.2)] - Vegur again only displays light - New twist, bold a word with special characters (some - the ones used for Spanish) now they display as blank spaces. [see screenshot] http://lo-portal.us/temp/vegur-libo.png So you mentioned Olivier and I said - right the Brasilian cover that is Vegur..so what's up with that? Maybe this works under MS Windows and Commercial graphics applications and maybe that is what they used? //drew It looks like the accented o versión and the accented a gráfico are not supported in bold with the font. IMHO the adoption of the Vegur font was a great starter font for the new LibreOffice project, but there should be a big push put in the design team to find a resolution for this problem. We have arrived at the point where we need a font that supports a full complement of language characters. The different language groups are forming their marketing teams and are soon going to start needing font support for their marketing materials. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: special process for urgent ux items ?
Le 2011-04-25 06:57, Michel RENON a écrit : Hi, As a LibreOffice user, I feel changes are too slow... ;-) So, beside the current organisation of UX group, I asked myself if it be possible to work on urgent/easy items ? The idea would be to (try to) resolve some UI/UX problems in LibreOffice 3.5 (and 3.6 ?). The short delay impose a light process of UI/UX validation. It would be UI/UX problems/enhancements that are : - easy to develop : move/rename items, change default values, simplify, make obvious... - won't have too much impact in the future : no problem if LibreOffice 3.7 or 4.x or 5.x changes again And from a non-technical point of view, it would send a signal to all users : LibreOffice is really changing ! There is already a proposal list fo GSOC 2011: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Gsoc/Ideas#UI_cleanup To add some ideas, we can make a kind of survey ? or we use only our own experience ? I have my own list ;-) (Or do I just have to add my list of requests/bugs in bugzilla ?) Do you think it's a pertinent idea ? Michel +1 I have been following the developer mailing list and they follow this principle with success. They seem to be making quite remarkable headway. Their list has entry level type development items that are great for new devs involvement. Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: special process for urgent ux items ?
Hi Christoph Le 2011-04-25 08:18, Christoph Noack a écrit : Wow, nice list! It is very complete. One thing that I find lacking (unless I have missed it) is how the design team documents the work in progress and a wiki page detailing the approved design elements for community use. I always find it difficult to find the approved designs as there doesn't seem to be any kind of wiki page where a collections of completed and approved designs are listed and categorized. I find that the marketing members usually have to check with the design mailing list to check to see if any particular design has been approved and where to find it. We need a central wiki page where we can see the design on any particular item is itemized and another wiki page where we can see completed designs with annotated comments on usage are found. I know that all of this was discussed but has it been implemented yet? Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: Little problem with the Vegur font
Hi Bernhard Le 2011-04-25 07:54, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : It seems that the font doesn't only contain the Light version - otherwise the bold characters would be calculated from the light ones without losing them in Bold. But for the moment this font is not able to be used in languages with unsupported characters. So we are in a similar situation as last year in the OOo branding team. Over there we searched thoroughly and decided to use M+ P1 as accompanying font for the OOo logo. I'd suggest to do the same here until the work on the Vegur font reaches a more or less final status: http://mplus-fonts.sourceforge.jp/mplus-outline-fonts/design/index-en.html#prop Direct download: http://downloads.sourceforge.jp/mplus-fonts/6650/mplus-TESTFLIGHT-038.tar.gz I don't know at the moment if this archive works on Windows too, but I can't spend the time to look at it in dept at the moment. Best regards Bernhard So, should we then advise the different language marketing groups to make use of the Mplus fonts for their design and content until the Vegur font work is completed? Why should we just not adopt and improve on the Mplus font set instead of Vegur? Is there a technical reason why we are so set on Vegur? Just wondering. Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: special process for urgent ux items ?
Le 2011-04-25 10:31, Christoph Noack a écrit : Marc, it would be great if you could have a look at the list later ... once we moved it. I plan to ask for a review with you all - nothing (important) should be missed, everything should be understandable, and we should also avoid working on stuff that doesn't make much sense at the moment ;-) Cheers, Christoph No problem. Have fun with your guests. Let us know when it is updated. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: Little problem with the Vegur font
Hi Ricardo: Some points I would like to express: Le 2011-04-25 12:43, RGB ES a écrit : As a first step I did a mix between the Spanish text and a translation from the English cover. The resulting text is more compact, I think. There is no need to translate as is from the English text. The idea would be to make it readable as native Spanish text. If you think it should be modified then modify it as native Spanish text and then we can all try to make it fit on the cover. You could pull some of the text from the http://es.libreoffice.org/caracteristicas pages. Were you involved in writing up the text? As a workaround about the translation of the gorgeous ending phrase, I used the word suite before in the text (when talking about Math) and then enclosed the word Suite between quotes (Spanish use «...» for quotes) to make it clear that there is a double sense on the phrase: most Spanish speakers should not have problems identifying the word sweet, I think... in the worst case they will use an on-line dictionary ;) I see that there is/was a short discussion about the slogan on the Spanish mail list. There again, if the Spanish community would like to come up with a native Spanish slogan, then make one up, discuss and adopt it. It can certainly be used instead of the English slogan. There is no need to force an English slogan onto the community if it is not appropriate. The last difference is that in Spanish using Caps For All Words is considered a grammar error :) The same grammar rules apply in French as well. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: Position of the design team in our community - link to discussion on marketing list
Hi Planas Le 2011-04-25 22:26, planas a écrit : On Tue, 2011-04-26 at 01:28 +0200, Bernhard Dippold wrote: Hi all, I just want to inform you that there is a discussion (mainly between Drew and Marc) about the design team and if we should approve every single design item created for LibreOffice. I added some thoughts to this here: http://go.mail-archive.com/jviw7nBBvahqPQI_W7qfe-f_Nao= Best regards Bernhard I think one of the last comments summed up everything nicely: I think it is important to allow any artist and designer to work in the way (s)he likes best. But it's important at the same time to work on a consistent and professional branding and visual identity. Combining these goals is not easy - but it is crucial if we consider our LibreOffice design as one of the goals to reach more users and contributors. One issue is there a need for local variations while keeping a recognizable brand and identity. I think the slogan used might vary because an English slogan may make no sense in another language. As this particular topic of slogans has more to do with the marketing list, could we take this up on the marketing list? IMO, Italo, out marketing guru, will have to take part in this discussion. I'll start a new thread on the marketing list with your note. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: LibreOffice Venezuela logo - a proposal
Oops forgot to comment on the 5 proposals. First off, I have to confess that I am a big fan of the green shade. I don't really like #1. The blue does not seem to have any appeal. I like #2 and #5 with the slightly greyed page. I especially like the #5 use of the gradient, but I am not sure how this would affect flags that include any white in their colour combinations. Looks good with the Venezuelan flag though. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: A LibreOffice logo for use on an external web site
Le 2011-05-05 13:38, drew a écrit : Hi, The folks at the OO.o user community forum will be adding a sub-page for LibreOffice under the Setup and Troubleshooting section. Currently that section is split along OS lines only - you can see that here: http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewforum.php?f=6 So an icon, 32x32 px, for LibreOfficce - any reason not to use the standard contemporary document icon? If not I'll use this png file as such: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Libo-list-icon.png Thanks Drew If it looks like the icon that is normally installed on our desktop then great! I think this is the one that you are proposing. It is our icon brand at the moment. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: Gallery of Visual Elements [was: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Are there icons...]
Hi Bernhard: Thanks for doing this. This will help a lot with organizing our resources. Cheers Marc Le 2011-05-15 18:15, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Hi Marc, Marc Paré schrieb: Hi Bernhard Le 2011-05-11 17:56, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Thanks for pointing here, as we haven't been able to finish the work on our galleries containing graphical resources for internal and external visual representation of LibreOffice: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Visual_Elements I wasn't aware of this page. Could we then link the items on the Marketing/Material page[1] to this new page and then delete the page? It doesn't really serve any purpose and the organisation is more useful on the Visual_Elements page. You could also add two categories to make it a one-stop shop for members: videos; presentations. We can extend the galleries of course. I just added a new line for presentations, videos and flyers. If you want to modify the structure, just tell us here on the list and go ahead - if there are different opinions, we can revert your change at any time... It's nice to pull all of these elements on one page. We would have to agree on the visuals as official resources here on the list. But I think for the moment adding a strong line like: The artwork and design presented here has not yet been approved as official LibreOffice resources. This may take a bit of time, but can become faster if you ask for approval for the artwork you want to use at our [[Design#Communication|design mailing list]]. should be sufficient. Let me know if you need help to do this. I could do it for you. This would be great! Klaus-Jürgen already started to create the first sub-pages. I modified their titles and descriptions a bit in order to allow people to see the visuals without scrolling and to understand that this is a structured gallery. For the gallery entries I don't think that we need to duplicate all the content of the file page we link to. Just adding a description / name should be enough as this gallery entries don't allow to download the graphics directly. If anybody of you can spend some time on this topic, it would be highly appreciated. And when we start to use these pages as official resources, we should add the categories Marketing, Design and Gallery (at least) to them. I already did this for the main gallery page and logo, icons, product graphics and motif. Best regards Bernhard Cheers Marc [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Material -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: Cover designs for printed copies of LibreOffice user guides
Le 2011-05-16 16:24, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Hi Jean, * Jean Hollis Weber schrieb: Thanks, Bernhard, for moving this request to the proper list. What is the Motif you mention? I am not familiar with this term. It's a graphical element we want to be used in LibreOffice branding: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Gallery_Motif It can be used in parts or as a whole and fits quite well with other design ideas - keeping the general language of our branding. There are already some use cases on our Existing designs page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Existing_Designs#Distribution Even if we need to define better what should be an official design (and I'd like to see the LibO documentation be part of this), you might get an impression what is possible with the motif. Best regards Bernhard IMO, we should consider the motif a very important part of our branding tools giving it as much importance as the LibreOffice icon. We could perhaps give guidelines as to white space suggested around the scatter so that we are all using it with a certain amount of consistency. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: Adding [UX] and [VI] tags to mail subjects?
Hi everyoone Le 2011-05-18 18:06, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Hi Jaron, * Jaron Kuppers schrieb: Hi everyone, Great idea! I prefer to use shorter tags such as [UX] and [VI] as opposed to full words. Otherwise the subject of the email may get cut off, especially since all our emails are automatically tagged with the list at the beginning ex: [libreoffice-design][UX]. +1 As for the specific tags I would prefer [UX] and [BD] (Branding Design) and of course no tag would be general purpose (such as announcements). Later we might add 1 or 2 more but I think it should be kept very simple, otherwise new members might get confused about which tags to use. +1 (I didn't want to propose [BD] because of my name ;-) ) Honestly: I don't know if Visual Design or Branding Design covers our goals better and are better known in public or among designers. So I'm open to any of these tags. Best regards Bernhard Cheers, Jaron On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote: Hi all, would you like to add special tags to the subjects of your mails to show even more clearly, if the topic related to User Experience [UX] or Visual Identity / Branding Design [VI]? This might make it easier to browse the list for topics you are interested in. Do you think this makes sense? Best regards Bernhard This has been proposed before some months ago and we all thought that it made sense. However, I am not in favour of shorter tags for the simple reason that the mailing lists are open to all members and new members. This will only add another layer of complexity for members, who, let's not forget, English is often times not their first language. I would favour short descriptive tags that are still readable by members without having to search through our files for their meaning. If we keep it simple, then we make it possible for interested members to jump in and help right away. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: Cover designs for printed copies of LibreOffice user guides
Hi Bernhard Le 2011-05-21 10:26, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : We could perhaps give guidelines as to white space suggested around the scatter so that we are all using it with a certain amount of consistency. The guidelines Nik provided on the Motif page (http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Motif) already cover the intended use quite well IMHO. The motif should be used not only as a whole, but in parts and cut-off, so whitespace rules don't make really sense. But we should look at it's consistency - and when someone finds out about a usage that might not follow our general branding language, please tell us, so we can try to define better rules. Best regards Bernhard Thanks for the note. I had not looked closely enough on that particular page. It would be helpful if that particular section showed up on the index at the top of the wiki page. Perhaps a sub-title that would show under section 1.1 This would help members who are looking for guidance on the motif's usage. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: voting on Visual Design tag
Le 2011-05-21 18:29, Phil Jackson a écrit : Hi Bernhard Good point about some confusion for some shorted tags. There has to be a balance I think in terms of brevity and identification while taking into account acronyms that might have dual meanings and having some consistency. Might I suggest that we do something like your suggestion for ViDes but have 3 letters for first word and 2-3 for second word The following and other tags could be [VisIde] [BraDes] [VisDes] and [UsaPro] for Usability productivity [UsaInt] for Usability Interface Also, you are right about having a reference page somewhere for Design Tags - this could be for example on the first Design\WhiteBoards page. Cheers Phil Jackson On 5/22/2011 8:47 AM, Bernhard Dippold wrote: I was also going to suggest the same thing about 3-4 letter designation. Most first language EN speaking person could get a better guess of the meaning behind these designations although Usa will be more difficult. Perhaps Usab instead? Prod instead of Pro. This way we can shorten the learning curve for new users by quite a bit. I would favour: [VisDes] [UsabProd] [UsabInt] Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: Cover designs for printed copies of LibreOffice user guides
Hi Bernhard: Le 2011-05-21 17:32, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Thanks for the note. I had not looked closely enough on that particular page. It would be helpful if that particular section showed up on the index at the top of the wiki page. Perhaps a sub-title that would show under section 1.1 This would help members who are looking for guidance on the motif's usage. I added the title. Feel free to add some more explanations, if you think they could help. Best regards Bernhard Thanks. That's perfect. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [VI] designing a logo for the LibreOffice conference
Hi Klaus Le 2011-05-23 02:21, klaus-jürgen weghorn ol a écrit : We do have a Conference Kit wiki page[1] where we are trying to collect all items needed for a conference as well as a catalogue (links) of previously created LibreOffice materials. I will be going over it over the next couple of weeks and updating it. [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/ConferenceKit Thanks for the link. Should we put a link on this page to the logo page [2]? [2] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice_conference_logo I reorganized the page a little and added this to the Computer/Software/Electronics related section of the page. I put a link of your informations to the Conference page [3]. [3] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Paris_Conference Thanks. The Conference Kit wiki page is meant to be a tool kit page for people who need resources for conferences. I will be updating some of the links with a new design page that is trying to centralize all of visual resources on one wiki page[1]. Note also that on some of the sub-pages on the Conference Kit wiki pages, I have translated these into French ... quand j'ai le temps d'en faire une traduction. I am trying to translate/localize these pages as I have time. Cheers Marc [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Visual_Elements -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: designing a logo for the LibreOffice conference
Hi Bernhard Le 2011-05-23 16:03, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Version with cut-off corner: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/archive/6/6a/20110523192740%21LibOCon_logo2.png I think at minimum, the iconic LibreOffice triangular corner should show. I think the majority of users and public identify the corner as a LibreOffice document detail. Version with full corner: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibOCon_logo2.png Best regards Bernhard Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: UX collaboration
Le 2011-05-23 18:52, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Hi Marc, hi Gustavo, Marc Paré schrieb: Hi Bernhard and Gustavo Many thanks Gustavo for your generous offer. It is very appreciated. Bernhard could we also see if Gustavo's Tactio Interaction Design be added to our supporters page[1] on the TDF wiki page? Reading Florian's request for adding a statement to this page: http://go.mail-archive.com/wwkakBiAxgBaciMwsLDmUhAoRFc= I think, such a request should be done on the webs...@libreoffice.org list. Gustavo could then perhaps add a supporting comment to the listing, if this is agreeable to him. To my understanding Gustavo has to agree to any listing, even without a comment. But a comment like the one's already posted there would be appreciated, I suppose. I am not sure if there is a certain protocol to follow, perhaps just sending a follow up mail to a SC member? I don't know about such a protocol. I'd start with a mail to the website list. If this doesn't work, you might address Florian or the SC. Best regards Bernhard Cheers Marc [1] http://www.documentfoundation.org/supporters/ Le 2011-05-18 17:21, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Hi Gustavo, all, welcome to our team! Gustavo Gawryszewski schrieb: Hello, My name is Gustavo Gawryszewski, I'm the founder of Tactio Interaction Design, which is a brazilian interaction design and usability consultancy and local leader of the IxDA Rio de Janeiro chapter. With such a background I'm quite sure you will feel quite comfortable here in our group. We are professionals and amateurs in design and user experience working together in the related areas of branding / visual design and UX / UI design. Even if our wiki is not in a final state, most of our work is presented there - and discussed here on this mailing list. We were planning to help with the project, That's great! Help is what we need most :-) I thought that It could be useful to run some usability tests so you guys have more data available to work on. This would be very useful indeed. Such data will give our comments and opinion on coding efforts with UI implication more importance and might lead to a situation where developers start to ask us how our different target groups will react to changes they develop. At the moment I don't have a feature in mind where we might need usability testing instantly. But if you stay with us for some time here on the list, you will find out about topics where your expertise and usability testing might be helpful. If we don't see these points (or don't think about asking you), please step in and post your opinion! I could work on the interaction design too, but as we know that is a very large and complex project and we don't have that many resources available to help. Even if such contributions would be helpful too, I think it is much more important to contribute with presence and expertise inside our team - if you are interested in being a part of it. We all are volunteers, spending more or less of our spare time to further LibreOffice and improve it by committing our dedication and expertise to the community. I would like to know from you guys what it would be more relevant If we can ask for support with usability tests from time to time, this would be great. I CC'd Christoph, our main UX expert (on parental leave at the moment), to inform him about your offer. Best regards and welcome again! Bernhard Then I guess this would be up to Gustavo to follow up on the website list if he wishes to add a statement of support to the LibreOffice project and have his enterprise recognized on the TDF website. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: LibreOffice Hackfest in Munich
Le 2011-05-27 04:41, Florian Effenberger a écrit : Hello, together with their Linux migration team (LiMux), we’re planning a LibreOffice Hackfest in the City of Munich, Germany. To determine the best date for it, let us know all your possible dates! Like last time, the Hackfest is open for newbies as well as for routined hackers. More details will follow soon, but first, we need the date. So, let’s vote! The poll is at http://doodle.com/i7pw9wubvdhdyzm4 NOTE: The Hackfest will run from Friday evening to Sunday lunchtime. For the ease of voting, we have just mentioned the respective Saturday. Let's hack! Florian Hi Florian Thanks for announcing this. Maybe we should also know if you have to be there in person or can you participate remotely? Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: designing a logo for the LibreOffice conference
Hi Charles et al Le 2011-05-27 04:26, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : I like the wallpaper but it might be misleading as people might think we're hosting the event in the Louvre... Best, Charles. Actually, that was my first thought. Is there a shot of the facilities where you are going to hold the meeting? This would make it more logical. Could some of the locals provide us with a photo? Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: CI Design Wrapper for Videos
Le 2011-05-27 05:38, Phil Jackson a écrit : Hi Shawn I'm sure that you could make some very good videos that can be used to demonstrate the features of LibreOffice. We're developing some design ideas that could be showcased very effectively on YouTube. I personally think there is an opportunity to show why LibreOffice, when it has incorporated some of these ideas, is a better productivity tool than MS Office. It could be done on several levels right down to specific topics such as automatic tabbing. It could be possible to even have built into LibreOffice, links to Help Videos on various topics - just a click away to make it very convenient. That would give it a competitive advantage over other products. This idea has many legs! There could be a role to coordinate a sub-team of design members working together on this. Cheers Phil Jackson On 5/27/2011 9:07 PM, Shawn Beasley wrote: Dear Design Team, Hi and my name is Shawn Beasley. I am chatting with the document team to find out where it would be valuable to do videos, in YouTube, to accompany the documentation. There are a lot of users that need the information in this format as well. My current videos revolve around OTRS, and I have finally got so far as to know what I want to transport, and how to make the editing process a breeze. What I would like to do with Libreoffice is to help with post-/production of YouTube videos with a recognizable, consistent, and attractive style. I use a Mac in combination with screenflow, keynote, Gimp, and other tools to achieve a rich content screen cast with various affects and music to send emotion to the user. I run three types of videos currently. They can all be found at my YouTube page: http://youtube.com/user/diginin1974. Some of the older videos are a little rough. And the consistency I was talking about is the last few videos. You will notice the OTRS Inc wrapper and music. But, even in the early vids, you can see the work done with Keynotes and the movement done with screenflow. I think, that with your help, we can make high emotion videos to complement the documentation, and I am very excited to see who would like to be involved here. Thanks for you time! ///shawn Shawn Beasley a.k.a DigITal_Ninja/diginin As this topic keeps coming up, could one of you write up a wiki page on this so that we do not lose the important points? Many people have expressed their thoughts and suggestions on video productions but not much has come of it. Perhaps if we put it down on paper more people will find it appealing enough to work on it. We need to investigate video production from a design point of view as well as from a marketing point of view. IMO, the design aspect should come first. BTW ... we do have a LibreOffice YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/libreofficeVols and Drew is involved in this. ... Please correct me if I am wrong in pointing this out. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: designing a logo for the LibreOffice conference
Le 2011-05-27 12:33, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : Le Fri, 27 May 2011 10:27:14 -0400, Marc Parém...@marcpare.com a écrit : Le 2011-05-27 12:15, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : Le Fri, 27 May 2011 10:07:05 -0400, Marc Parém...@marcpare.com a écrit : Hi Charles et al Le 2011-05-27 04:26, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : I like the wallpaper but it might be misleading as people might think we're hosting the event in the Louvre... Best, Charles. Actually, that was my first thought. Is there a shot of the facilities where you are going to hold the meeting? This would make it more logical. Could some of the locals provide us with a photo? There's that flickr gallery: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacantine/ Best, Charles. I just browsed through the photos and there is no photo of the actual building. If we could provide Nik with a sexy photo of the building or building and its surroundings (just as we did with the Louvre photo) maybe that would be better. So here we either have a problem or a good opportunity. Let me explain. The building itself is located inside one famous 19th century passages couverts (and I don't have the translation for that in English) which makes it either impossible to get a picture of the building or makes it possible to be creative by using pictures of the gallery itself. Best, Charles. Sounds more like an opportunity to me. Maybe we should be asking if anyone on the FR mailing list has or could get some shots for us? There must be someone in Paris or even the region who could get us some. Nik could let us know the PNG size he would like. Sorry, I am off to lunch and to a meeting. Will be back later. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [VI] [Vote] Official LibreOffice conference logo
Hi everyone: Le 2011-05-27 19:10, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : So these are the proposals: 01 Tobias Bernard 02 Bernhard Dippold 03 Nikash Singh 1a (conference part below the logo) 04 Nikash Singh 1b (conference part at the right. +1 * it could be easily tailored for banner use * I can see it used as a cool marketing item - folded business card with some targeted text on the inside. Could become iconic of LibOCon business cards * I thought that Klaus' version (#5) with the motif may give some people difficulty in reading (text over motif), so, this version does not have the motif. * may easily be re-used for more LibOCon's by replacing the right-hand text with the new location * right-hand text is set apart from the left-hand LibreOffice logo usage. This frees up space on the right-hand side for tailored text 05 Klaus-Jürgen Weghorn 06 Helio S. Ferreira (07 Tobias Bernhard first draft not specific for the present conference) Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: RE : Re: Re: designing a logo for the LibreOffice conference
Le 2011-05-27 12:11, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : Nik, I'll try to see what I can do, but in the mean time I need a validation foe the logo. Deadline is tonight... Best, Charles. Le 27 mai 2011, 6:05 PM, Nikn...@tdf.nikashsingh.com a écrit : Hi Charles, Marc, all, On 5/28/2011 1:16 AM, Marc Paré wrote: ---snip 8--- Sounds more like an opportunity to me. Maybe we should be asking if anyone on the FR mailing ... Thanks for the support here Marc. Any photo taken on a 5+megapixel camera is large enough for even the biggest monitor resolution. So size and format aren't too much of an issue (I can work with RAW files and even prefer that). More important is the quality of the photo. (Taken on an SLR camera) If it looks nice to begin with, my job is easier. Just like when you give a chef the best cut of wagyu steak and he delivers you to grilled-beef heaven. =) To be more specific: short depth-of-field / interesting subject / rule of thirds / plenty of croppable surrounding area / landmarks / bokeh / light-streaks / long-exposures all make for good High-quality photographs. If you can't procure some easily, leave it to me and I'll jump online and find a CC public-domain image we can use. I'm not without my sources =) -Nik -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: htt... Hi Nik, Charles et al Actually, I went to our conference website[1] and there is a link to La Cantine's blog where there are many photos. Maybe Nik could browse the photos and see if any will suit.[2] I also like the floor plan of on this page[3] We have enough time to check with the La Cantine people to see if the photos on their website are available through a generous licence. There is also the Wikimedia Commons where you can check out more photos.[4] Cheers Marc [1] http://www.LibOCon.com [2] http://lacantine.org/ [3] http://lacantine.org/blog/menu-de-la-cantine-photos-documents [4] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: 'adopt-o-meter' for the download page
Le 2011-06-03 21:23, Vamsi Kodali a écrit : Marc's idea inspired me to put take another shot at this. Result is here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Vk_aom4.png I put together a mockup without the meter and using Kodali's meter mockup but put vertically next to the versions, and, in the order of appearance that I suggested.[1] It keeps the page clean, with no distractions. Let me know what you think. Cheers Marc [1] http://www.parentreprise.com/images/LibreOffice/downloadpage6.png Nice. I love the iconic LibrOffice document tab at the top. Keep in mind that the dropdown download windows will have to remain in case a person would wish to download a different language version other than judged by our system. Here is what I would propose: http://www.parentreprise.com/images/LibreOffice/downloadpage7.png Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: 'adopt-o-meter' for the download page
Le 2011-06-03 23:10, Marc Paré a écrit : Le 2011-06-03 21:23, Vamsi Kodali a écrit : Marc's idea inspired me to put take another shot at this. Result is here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Vk_aom4.png I put together a mockup without the meter and using Kodali's meter mockup but put vertically next to the versions, and, in the order of appearance that I suggested.[1] It keeps the page clean, with no distractions. Let me know what you think. Cheers Marc [1] http://www.parentreprise.com/images/LibreOffice/downloadpage6.png Nice. I love the iconic LibrOffice document tab at the top. Keep in mind that the dropdown download windows will have to remain in case a person would wish to download a different language version other than judged by our system. Here is what I would propose: http://www.parentreprise.com/images/LibreOffice/downloadpage7.png Cheers Marc Actually, there is no need for the Version dropdown window -- only the 64/32bit and language windows are needed. Sorry about that. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: 'adopt-o-meter' for the download page
Le 2011-06-04 02:52, Sveinn í Felli a écrit : , skrifaði Vamsi Kodali: Marc's idea inspired me to put take another shot at this. Result is here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Vk_aom4.png I put together a mockup without the meter and using Kodali's meter mockup but put vertically next to the versions, and, in the order of appearance that I suggested.[1] It keeps the page clean, with no distractions. Let me know what you think. Cheers Marc [1] http://www.parentreprise.com/images/LibreOffice/downloadpage6.png Much better I think. Eliminated the red danger color, only two words to translate (this could be an localizable svg image, isn't it ?) Regards Sveinn í Felli Yes, also a good point for our localizers, seeing as they will have to change the version numbers. This needs to be made a easy as possible for them. Re: colours: We have to keep in mind that human colour blindness is quite a prevalent condition, up to 8% of males and 5% of females have some form of colour blindness. Also monitors may also draw colours differently. So, basing anything on colours should take this into consideration. IMO, basing choices along the lines of colours should not be taken as the only choice available to users and should never be the primary method of choice for users picking a solution. BTW ... I put up another quick mockup[1]. I think we should still have the 2 dropdown windows for people like me who want to install FR and ES languages on my machine. http://www.parentreprise.com/images/LibreOffice/downloadpage7.png Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] LibreOffice Magazine International is organizing with sign-up sheet
With the help of the *Brazilian team*, an effort to organize an international version of LibreOffice Magazine has been created. If you are interested in participating, on a regular basis, to the production of the LibreOffice Magazine International (the international EN version) please feel free to sign-up on this page[1]. As there are many different posts to fill, it would greatly help if you could let us know of any skills that you wish to bring to the project. Feel free to view the LibreOffice Magazine Brasil -- Collaborators http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/PT-BR/Colaboradores page for an example of some of the tasks that you may be able to fill. We should also acknowledge the Brazilian team who has offered its help and expertise with the production/structure of the magazine. You must be willing to use the LibreOffice suite as the tool of choice for the full production -- Writer and Draw are the modules most used in the production of the magazine. The LibreOffice suite is the tool by which the magazine will showcase its abilities to serve as a professional tool. Cheers, Marc [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/MagazineInternational -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] KDE and Gnome theme design for use of screenshots
I was wondering if anyone on the design team could help out? The documentation team has adopted the following theme (XP-Silver theme)[1] for their use of screenshots. I was wondering if anyone could help in trying to make this theme more user friendly in the installation procedure. If you download the theme from the link on that page[2], it gives you installation procedures for Ubuntu. I am not sure if the directions on that page work for all of the latest versions of Ubuntu, however, the problem with the installation procedures is that it is not as easily accomplished on any other Linux distros (I use Mageia 1). I tried to install it, but it never quite got the same results as the examples on the wiki page examples. So, I was wondering if anyone on the design team could help in making this a theme that we could post on the http://kde-look.org and http://gnome-look.org as a theme. This would make the LibO screenshot theme available to more distros and make it more seamless. I did join the KDE forums and got some feedback from one person on the forums[3], but even there, I just could not seem to make this work. (BTW ... my version of Mageia 1 uses KDE 4.6.3) I was hoping that if we could make this theme more easy to install for our user base, then we could perhaps enlist more people to help out with screenshots. I am particularly interested in helping out with taking screenshots for both our website and documentation needs. I know that I could install Ubuntu, but to me it would seem to make more sense to adopt/modify/create a theme that is more easily installed by a larger number of members on Linux distro's than to limit a theme to those who are only on Ubuntu. We could get more help by making it universal. Could anyone help out? Comments and help are greatly appreciated. Cheers Marc [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Production#Sample_screenshots [2] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/d/db/Ubuntu-xp-silver-theme.zip [3] http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=66t=95613 -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Le 2011-06-23 14:30, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Hi again, I'll start with my thoughts on the topic. Fell free to provide yours. Once we finished this collection and basic discussion we should move the results to a dedicated wiki page for further reference. But for the direct discussion I prefer the mailing list more: Bernhard Dippold wrote: [...] Consistency is a relevant part of Visual Identity and therefore I'd like to ask you all provide your thoughts on 1) how such a UI theme should look like - It should be clean, balanced and friendly as we refer to LibreOffice on our branding wiki page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Branding - It should look familiar to Windows users, so they don't consider the office suite as geeky and specially designed for GNU/Linux users. - It should look up-to-date to most users, so Windows XP style should be avoided (as it resembles too many people to an old-fashioned office suite). - It should be accessible for visually impaired people (at least for the most common cases like red-green color blindness). - It should have enough contrast to print well in greylevels. 2) what other conditions should be met - It should *not* use a standard Windows theme, because there are legal issues [1]. - It should be available for most users, because providing screenshots is a task that might be solved by new contributors on their first steps into our community (if we provide the necessary background to take the screenshots in a consistent way). 3) which existing UI theme would serve best as standard for screenshots Sigrid already uploaded a variety of themes to this wiki page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/DE/Doku/Allgemein/Screenshots On the de-discuss list she voted for the theme Clearlooks because - it is the standard theme on Gnome - it has been ported to KDE as Cleanlooks - it is available for Windows XP too, so even Windows users can take screenshots without the legal restrictions mentioned above. (sorry, German:[2]) Do you think these 3 questions could lead to a consensus on a theme to be used? Should we add more points? Best regards Bernhard [1]: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/msg01950.html [2]: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/de/discuss/msg06547.html (Mail-archive.com seems not to be reachable at the moment) I agree with all of these points. The ones that I would highlight, especially for our uses is the ability for contributing users being able to install the chosen theme easily on a *nix environment with the most popular windowing support such as KDE/Gnome; the theme should be optimized for print (as much as possible). If needed, a variance of the chosen theme could be designed in such as way that there be a slight difference to satisfy requirement from website use (more visual) and the documentation (visual + print). IMO, best if the theme could be the same setup for both, but, in the end, there may be different needs from one group and the other. Cheers Marc -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Le 2011-06-24 03:35, Astron a écrit : Hi, I just tried out different LibO greens with my titlebars: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Green0.png http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Green1.png http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Green2.png http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Green3.png I think Green 0 actually looks best, but I am not completely sold on this. The other greens seem a bit aggressive. Another thing to think about is font. I would propose (for Linux systems) FreeSans, a Helvetica copy, which is almost universally installed and works well as an interface font. When setting this, think about font hinting, too. Should Cleartype (Windows)/sub-pixel hinting (and what level) (Linux) be enabled or not? Subpixel hinting looks bad in print, on CRTs or on LCD screens that use a different sub-pixel ordering, but is much smoother on R-G-B LCD screens. Astron. I just checked on my system (Mageia 1 - a Mandriva fork), FreeSans is not installed. How is the Liberation font family for print? This font is definitely installed on all linux boxes. If we are to adopt a specific font, we should make sure that it is a maintained font and that we can either have a link to a site where it can be downloaded from or we should store in on our own servers. I also think that it should be opensource. I think I had seen somewhere on one of the wiki pages, a specific recommendation for a font for print, was is not Vegur? Cheers Marc -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Le 2011-06-24 16:48, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit : On Fri, 2011-06-24 at 11:06 -0400, Marc Paré wrote: Le 2011-06-24 03:35, Astron a écrit : Hi, I just tried out different LibO greens with my titlebars: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Green0.png http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Green1.png http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Green2.png http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Green3.png I think Green 0 actually looks best, but I am not completely sold on this. The other greens seem a bit aggressive. Another thing to think about is font. I would propose (for Linux systems) FreeSans, a Helvetica copy, which is almost universally installed and works well as an interface font. When setting this, think about font hinting, too. Should Cleartype (Windows)/sub-pixel hinting (and what level) (Linux) be enabled or not? Subpixel hinting looks bad in print, on CRTs or on LCD screens that use a different sub-pixel ordering, but is much smoother on R-G-B LCD screens. Astron. I just checked on my system (Mageia 1 - a Mandriva fork), FreeSans is not installed. How is the Liberation font family for print? This font is definitely installed on all linux boxes. If we are to adopt a specific font, we should make sure that it is a maintained font and that we can either have a link to a site where it can be downloaded from or we should store in on our own servers. I also think that it should be opensource. I think I had seen somewhere on one of the wiki pages, a specific recommendation for a font for print, was is not Vegur? We are using Liberation Sans for headings and text in the user guides. It prints well (sharp and dark, good contrast) in addition to being very readable on-screen. (We use Liberation Mono for code.) --Jean The added benefit of perhaps using the Liberation font family is that RedHat is the author of these fonts and that they are on-board with LibreOffice. If we need some tweaking of the fonts, they would maybe consider doing this to help us out. Cheers Marc -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Le 2011-06-24 17:34, Sigrid Carrera a écrit : Hi Marc, On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:43:22 -0400 Marc Parém...@marcpare.com wrote: Le 2011-06-24 11:26, eskroni a écrit : [...] Thanks for doing this Sigrid One comment is that maybe next time, not have the spell check on for these. It just make it a little more difficult for evaluation. We really need the comments from the documentation team people on the look and feel for our documents and especially for print. I did those screenshots in a very quick session, just for testing purposes. I don't plan to reuse any of those pictures for the user guides. On the ones for the guides I will disable the spellcheck. :) At this point, we should try to accommodate the comments from Jean Hollis Weber on this topic and try to find a theme OR create our own theme for this purpose. Maybe none of the pre-packaged themes will work for what we need. I'm not sure that I agree with your statement here. Bernhards goal was to have a theme that is widely available, that looks nice and modern. If we can modify one of the prepackaged themes that would mean, that many people have access to it - hopefully more people able to help with screenshots for the different materials needed (website, docu, marketing). Also, the pre-packaged themes are easy to install (see your own post about your difficulties with getting the XP silver theme to work with your KDE). Sigrid Hi Sigrid I think the goal of the theme was to have one suitable for screenshots and for print. This is the tool we are seeking for the website and documentation team. Of course looking modern and clean would be also involved in this search. My point about creating our own theme, if we cannot find a suitable one, is that we can develop it, maintain it, and submit it to the kde-look.org and gnome-look.org sites and this will make it available through the KDE/Gnome system settings for anyone's use. It just means that we would be in control of the theme and all of its accompanying components (mouse cursor, colours etc) but that if we chose, we could issue updates and not be dependent on any other individuals for the upkeep. Not to mention being in control of any licencing issues with the theme. IMO, if we do find a theme, if at all possible through the design team, we could decide to adopt the theme, and, if the licence permits it, rename it, and, from then on, take on the task of maintaining the theme. This way, again, we are in control of our quality assurance as far as the screenshots are concerned. From a marketing point of view, if the theme were to incorporate the LibreOffice name, it would be a plus for us, from the point of view of branding. People would then talk about adopting the LibreOffice theme or LibreOffice ScreenShot theme or ... Getting our name out in the wild will get us more brand recognition. Cheers Marc -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Le 2011-06-24 18:47, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : I don't want to take this task, as I still hope that a standard theme like Clearlook would serve our needs (perhaps with some minor modifications for printable screenshots) - but perhaps someone else would. With a standard theme (and a good documentation of any modification) the necessary manpower is minimized, and people can use it on their platform with minor effort. Standard themes come and go. I think it better if we were to adopt in-house our theme to control it more. If there are any modifications to the theme, this is where we start losing people. the KDE/Gnome settings (for *.nix boxes) make it easy for regular users to import themes into their own theme repositories. If there is(are) someone or people able to take into their care the LibreOffice theme then we will be better off for it. It is not like the theme will need changing often (hopefully not). It would be nice if we have people who are able to take it on and help out. From a marketing point of view, if the theme were to incorporate the LibreOffice name, it would be a plus for us, from the point of view of branding. People would then talk about adopting the LibreOffice theme or LibreOffice ScreenShot theme or ... Getting our name out in the wild will get us more brand recognition. For marketing a Win7 like theme would be great - and I'd rather like to see more theming in the LibreOffice UI to fit with the user's personal desktop theme than in modifying the user's desktop appearance to fit with LibreOffice. This said - a theme that transports the LibO branding to the users' desktops would of course support our marketing, but I would think that this might rather be used by people already convinced that LibreOffice is the best software package on earth ;-) Best regards Bernhard Actually, if we do adapt and name our theme, our goal, like any other product in our arsenal of products would be to use it to our marketing advantage. We could easily market it as a theme optimized for screenshots and people would gladly download our LibreOffice Theme for this reason and not necessarily for LibreOffice reasons. If we are going to be serious about quality document production, website, etc. then we should maybe consider adding the care of the LibreOffice theme to the list of responsibility of the dev team. I imagine that we could also enlist the help of the website team experts in this domain. It could be a shared responsibility and it doesn't necessarily mean that it is someone's responsibility but more of a responsibility of the dev/website or dev team for whoever would like to take it up. Cheers Marc -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Le 2011-06-25 07:00, Astron a écrit : Hi Marc, Actually, if we do adapt and name our theme, our goal, like any other product in our arsenal of products would be to use it to our marketing advantage. We could easily market it as a theme optimized for screenshots and people would gladly download our LibreOffice Theme for this reason and not necessarily for LibreOffice reasons. Clearly, maintaining an own theme is a lot of work. For instance, I don't know if Clearlooks has already been ported to Gnome 3. Another thing to note is that a) Mac theming is not customisable at all today and b) Windows theming is far less flexible than in the 2000 era (well, the legacy theming engine from Windows 2000 and earlier is still present, but it simply doesn't look temporary any more). It also isn't easy to install a third-party modern theme engine like Clearlooks in XP or later, additionally the free ones I've seen were all not very high-quality ones (I think they also have to be signed in Vista and 7, but I'm not sure). In Vista's and 7's Aero mode one can only choose a hue for the window frame. c) Gnome 3 theming is currently also not customisable via GUI, even though it has a very flexible CSS theming engine now. So that leaves KDE fully configurable but this is probably the least used among the platforms. A practical solution would be to offer a download package for Gnome and KDE (where all that should be changed should be the colors of a standard theme like Clearlooks, plus maybe a .fonts.conf to configure font display), and giving Windows Vista/7 users hints as to how to change the window frame hue in their system. Using the practical solution then will make it more difficult to install from the user point of view. The idea was to find an easily installable theme that would enable more member participation at taking screenshots for our various documentation, website, marketing etc work. If we are going to be serious about quality document production, website, etc. then we should maybe consider adding the care of the LibreOffice theme to the list of responsibility of the dev team. I imagine that we could also enlist the help of the website team experts in this domain. It could be a shared responsibility and it doesn't necessarily mean that it is someone's responsibility but more of a responsibility of the dev/website or dev team for whoever would like to take it up. Here's an idea of mine: a public screenshot machine where after a login people can easily make screenshots within their browser windows. However, it would be difficult to make screenshots that require devices or OSs not installed on the machine. Additionally you'd need to make sure that people can upload example files etc. before they start the session and can download their screenshots afterwards. (Please note, I am just throwing this out here and have no idea how hard this would be to implement!). There were also some questions about FreeSans being opensource, yes, it is. It can be downloaded from here: http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/freefont/ . It should share most of its metrics with Arial/Liberation Sans, aside from its line-height being much higher—I suppose that's because of the comprehensive language support. But if you've already decided, stick with Liberation. Astron. Sound like an idea worth exploring, but, still sounds complicated to implement. Cheers Marc -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Le 2011-06-23 18:59, eskroni a écrit : Hello, I also agree with all the points, that Bernhard made. One more idea I had and that I'm testing with another member from the de-list. We're testing the Gnome Clearlooks theme with a few modifications. This guy has problems with seeing different colours - so he's a good guinea pig for testing purposes. We're testing at the moment changing the colour of the Window frame from the light blue to something a bit darker. It just occured to me, that we might have a look at the branding wiki page, to see, which colours would go well with LibO-Theme. But I'm not good with graphics so I'd like to get some help. I also appreciate any other ideas you might have. Sigrid -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/VI-Consistent-theme-for-screenshots-tp3100955p3102157.html Sent from the Design mailing list archive at Nabble.com. Hi Sigrid Could you give us a screenshot? Cheers Marc -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
documentation online. It would be nice if we got the same print from one of our greens as with a gray. But if not, then gray should be it. BTW ... are the Lulu prints in colour or B/W? For web and marketing teams, the green in the theme is pretty well called for, if we are to keep with the brand colour. It identifies the suite and lends itself well to brand recognition. Would getting an opinion from someone involved at Lulu's be of any additional help as far as the print quality? They may be able to give us a little more input from the point of view of end product. I think we could convince them to offer some opinion on the matter if we had some samples for them to look at. Then, we can all decide (vote). The vocal people and others can all participate on the design decision being well informed on the options, this, as per usual with design proposal and adoption decisions. We are looking at: * a theme that is easily installable by members * a theme optimized for LibreOffice documentation screenshot print * a theme suitable for web and marketing purposes The theme does not necessarily need to be of the same configuration for the two and may lead to 2 theme configurations. Is there anything missing? BTW ... sorry I didn't participate on the testing of the samples as I don't think that I would have a well enough informed opinion on the print quality. I don't think my printer would give a good enough print to compare. Cheers Marc -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Le 2011-06-26 05:29, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit : To summarise, two objective points: * Some of the colours suggested in this thread should print just fine in grayscale by Lulu's printers. * If users print directly from the PDFs, the colours use up a lot more expensive ink or toner than does gray whether printed in colour or b/w. And one subjective point: * Some users will find that the colours make the screenshots look very unlike what they see, and that may detract from their usefulness in some cases. This is an untested hypothesis, other than some observation. Not sure about this. In in the educational field, there are very few screenshots done up in grayscale or B/W. If they are, it is mostly due to costs savings and little to do with impact on use. If this were the case, then most of the documentation from various software titles would be done up in grayscale. I think, to make this assertion, there would have to be a study on this. AFAIK, no one's answered this question yet: what is the advantage to users of having colour in the screenshots in the PDFs? --Jean Colour icons bring familiarity with the LibreOffice suite. Users work all day with colour menus. I would imagine that, if all of sudden, working on a LibreOffice documentation screen with B/W screenshots would be an experience that would leave most users wondering why colour was not used. In print, this is another matter, as most people will recognize the cost factor in the equation and that if a user wants colour print, then that user should be willing to offer up the extra purchase . So, if the screenshots are done in colour, we should make sure that they are printed at the quality that we expect from a B/W or grayscale. My personal opinion is that if we can get the screenshots done up in LibO greens (whichever of the greens 1-2-3 etc) for added market recognition in our documentation, and, if they print up well on personal printers and at Lulu's, without print degradation, then we should go for this. -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Logo for the new extension-template-repository?
Hi Klaus-Jürgen Le 2011-06-26 11:14, klaus-jürgen weghorn ol a écrit : Am 26.06.2011 02:23, schrieb Bernhard Dippold: hi Klaus-Jürgen, * klaus-jürgen weghorn ol schrieb: Hi Bernhard, Am 25.06.2011 22:22, schrieb Bernhard Dippold: Hi Andreas, all, nobody has any opinion on this topic? Only a little thing: It is more a web banner than a logo, but very good. Andreas' request has not been for a mimetype icon that represents the extension on the desktop, but for a logo at the extension / templates website: http://extensions2.libreoffice.org/ Ok, I thought it should be a single symbol like [1]. [1] http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:OpenOfficeExtensions/List If we combine the icon and the web banner the page can look like: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Ext-web.PNG To stay consistent with the logo for the LibOCon already used on the website, I kept the same sizes. http://conference.libreoffice.org/ I like the idea of the icon on the top-left with the puzzle pieces logo. The colour should change though, it is too pale and difficult to see. Maybe pick a colour that is not already used by the other LibreOffice modules and from the LibreOffice colour set?[1] Cheers Marc [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Colors -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Le 2011-06-26 06:23, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit : On Sun, 2011-06-26 at 19:29 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: To summarise, two objective points: * Some of the colours suggested in this thread should print just fine in grayscale by Lulu's printers. * If users print directly from the PDFs, the colours use up a lot more expensive ink or toner than does gray whether printed in colour or b/w. And one subjective point: * Some users will find that the colours make the screenshots look very unlike what they see, and that may detract from their usefulness in some cases. This is an untested hypothesis, other than some observation. AFAIK, no one's answered this question yet: what is the advantage to users of having colour in the screenshots in the PDFs? --Jean And another thing... The documentation team is very small. Why spend time replacing hundreds of otherwise perfectly good (gray) screenshots with ones with colours? Yes, some screenshots do need replacing because they were taken with Windows or used a different Linux theme and thus are inconsistent. It takes time to redo screenshots: not just the time to recapture the images but to check that they have been correctly done, show what they are supposed to, are correctly labelled, and so on. Many volunteers do a poor job with labelling or don't set up the shot so it shows what the text says it shows. Another round of proofreading is required, by people who pay close attention, and many don't. --Jean The team is small, but we are trying to make it easier for people to join and install a theme for taking screenshots. Hopefully this will attract more people with these sets of skills (screenshot taking) who will make contributions of the quality that we need. I will also commit to helping out with screenshots and replacement if we decide to go with colour. I can also help out with the FR and ES groups as well. We can work out a schedule for replacement and in the meantime the B/W can stay till replaced. It's a little of a catch 22. Leave it as is because we have too few to take screenshots or make it easier for people and worry about the quality. Cheers Marc -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Le 2011-06-26 22:59, Christopher Lee a écrit : How much of another distro will really be visible in a screenshot, though? I feel like most people would just say, Hey, that's a cool looking theme... and move on. The screenshots are only those of the LibreOffice window. All other OS components will not appear. This is done intentionally so that the OS is unidentifiable. The only hint that it will not be from a Windows OS is the top corner minimize, maximize, exit icons that may looks slightly different from the Windows version. People will not be aware of which OS the screenshots were taken from. Cheers Marc -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Le 2011-06-26 19:11, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Hi Jean, all, Jean Hollis Weber schrieb: [...] I agree with you that any colour chosen should harmonize with the positive attitude of our branding. I also agree that Green 1 is a bit aggressive. Green 2 will do; it prints well enough. Blue 2 seems a bit too bright when viewed in colour, but it prints fine. Blue 3 looks better to me, but the contrast with white text isn't so good; using Blue 3 with black text is much better in print. However, I haven't found a way to change the text in dialog box title bars from white to black. At least on my Ubuntu it depends on the theme used - some have black texts, some white ones. I don't see an option to change them independently either. I still am not convinced that there is any real marketing or other advantage to having coloured title bars and highlighting *in the user guide illustrations* -- I don't see why they need to be the same, as the purpose and use of the two are different, and the screenshots themselves will be different (so no reuse advantage to us). I think there are reasons to use the same screenshots in user guides and marketing material - e.g. including a new feature in the user guide. If such a feature has already been presented with a screenshot based on the common theme, this screenshot might be re-used. And the other way round: If someone wants to show some of the best features in LibreOffice as part of his presentation, it would be easy to use screenshots from the user guides. You're right that marketing oriented screenshots just showing the product are not suitable for documentation and screenshot of option windows are most likely irrelevant for marketing needs. I see the common branding as platform both areas should work together. Consistency improves recognition and should be tried to achieve - but we shouldn't go as far to give branding a higher importance than the goals the teams want to achieve with their work: If consistency would lead to minor quality in documentation or marketing, we definitely should look for two different themes. To me having the user guide screenshots in gray DOES have advantages FOR THE USERS: they are less likely to be distracted by the difference beween whatever colours they see on their screen and the gray in the screenshots; and the gray looks less foreign to Mac users. While I understand the reasons for a greylevel version based on printing cost, my perception of online documentation is different. Nearly all the screenshots I see are in color (just try a Google image search on screenshot or documentation). You're right that grey title bars look more common than colored ones in a different color than the user's theme. With a LibO green (preferable from branding POV) we definitely differ from the user's desktop (at least in the colored version) - but this is on purpose: A mental link between new green in screenshots and green LibreOffice establishes our branding in a broader sense. But it's not my decision, and I'm not a marketing expert, and the vocal people all seem to want the user guides and the marketing material (website etc) to match... so I'm just looking for a good compromise solution. Reading your follow-up mails, I'd support Libre Green 2 as highlight color in Clearlooks theme. What I'd like to know is: Does this combination work well for visually impaired people? If we can get an affirmation from the accessibility list, I think this topic could be closed soon. Anybody able post a screenshot with - Clearlooks theme - Font: Liberation bold - Font size: 11 pt - Highlight foreground color: Libre Green 2 (#43C330) to the list accessibil...@global.libreoffice.org and ask for comments? Looking at the wiki page http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Color_blindness_issues discrimination between foreground and background (or white text in headings) might work well, even if green is quite similar to orange. Jean: Are these modifications to the Clearlooks theme the ones you propose? Best regards Bernhard PS: From what I read here on the list I don't think we need a formal voting to come to a common proposal. If your impression is different, please raise your concerns - I just don't want to postpone Sigrid's and others work. Agree with all except for the PS. This will not postpone any work if one considers that if we do not get consensus, then we may have to revisit this whole subject again at a later date and have to go back and possibly have to retake screenshots. Let's get it done right now, discuss it, consider our options and vote. Sigrid is only one person out of all the other NL documentation, web, and marketing groups. It would be nice to establish some kind of policy now before we get too far. Cheers Marc -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Hi Alex, Sigrid et al Le 2011-06-28 05:17, Alexander Thurgood a écrit : Le 28/06/11 10:34, Sigrid Carrera a écrit : Hi Sigrid, I don't know. I don't own a Mac and I can't even afford one. But, do you know of a Theme, that is available on Mac, Windows and Linux? If so, please let us know. Well that is precisely my point. If there is no common theme available to all then the whole discussion is rather moot, don't you think ? There are aqua lookalike themes on Linux, as on Windows, but those themes probably only represent an ultraminority in usage on those OSes (possibly a bit more on Linux than on Windows, I really don't know). This leaves me with the following obvious questions / points : - do we produce separate stuff for the Mac ? hmmm, possible, but very work intensive, and there are certainly not enough people working on Macs in the community to be currently able to organise that. Additionally, it could lead to a hey, if they can have their own, why can't I kind of attitude for the other OSes, which sort of defeats the purpose of attempting to make everything uniform in the first place ; The goal here is to find a common theme for all OS's. If the majority of OS's have Clearlooks in common, then this is where we should start. We should gradually move to the production of our own in-house LibreOffice Theme where all OS's are represented. As you say, there are not enough people working on Macs in the community to be currently able to organise that. So, when there are enough people available to organise the mac LibreOffice Clearlooks theme, then, this would be one of the tasks to be taken on by the Mac community. In the meantime, let's start with a common majority theme where we establish criteria/policy/protocol and then we can focus on the Mac people. - do we produce stuff based on a theme that is only available to Linux/Windows users, and the Mac people will just have to make do ? It is one way of looking at things, but will alienate even further Mac users with regard to the community, even more so than they probably feel at the moment; The only reason Mac people may feel alienated is due to their small numbers. As you know, when addressing problems for LibreOffice, if we can resolve problems, we will do so without playing favourite to any OS platform. Once the numbers of contributing Mac members is up, we can then, hopefully, engage them more in the project and take a closer look at theming the LibreOffice Clearlooks theme on the Mac platform. I think this is a reasonable thing to do. - we drop the uniformisation process completely and let everyone do their own thing (aside from any legal issues with regard to using UI elements from MS). Currently Mac comes with two themes : Blue, or Graphite (similar to BrushedMetal on Linux). I had a quick search for the possibility to apply different themes to Mac, there are/were 2 different programs : Unsanity Shapeshifter : limited to versions of Mac OSX prior to Leopard (i.e. OS 10.5) Magnifique : (OSX 10.5) which appears to have closed down operations, the domain name is up for sale. So there does not appear to be any easy way to satisfy the Mac side of the equation that we are looking to resolve. Alex On the contrary, there is a way to satisfy the Mac side. This is to get a Mac user who is interested in theming the Clearlooks theme to the Mac platform. I am sure there are groups that will help with this on the Mac forums. Again, with a user base as large as we have, the Mac platform and interested Mac members, either on our system or on another Mac connected group, would be able to help out. For example, I went on the KDE forums looking for help, and although I did not specifically ask for hands-on help from that particular group, I did get an answer. If the theming becomes a real challenge here, and, we are not able to get the LibreOffice Clearlooks theme properly organised, there is nothing to stop us (me) from asking the KDE (or Gnome) theme members for help and even asking for a volunteer to help us complete the theming process. Let's agree on a screenshots theme protocol, establish directions on how to apply the parts and let's see in the end if we could complete the theming process in order to supply it to the kde-looks.org and gnome-looks.org sites (this is where the theme repositories are found). In the case of the Mac, I don't know where we would go for help, I tried to look around but, honestly, I did not find the Mac platform too supportive of opensource programmes and there is little of FLOSS themes available. But, as in all cases today, there must be, somewhere a group interested in FLOSS themes and we could ask this group for help in this instance. Cheers Marc -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Le 2011-06-28 04:31, David Nelson a écrit : Hi, On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Christoph Noackchrist...@dogmatux.com wrote: So, to me, the aim of consistent screenshots make totally sense - even or especially from a community POV. Well, in any case, as someone who is a constant presence in the LibO docs team, I'll certainly cooperate in promoting/coordinating uptake of the initiative if it takes off. But, like I already said, I'm wary of complexifying the process of getting involved in docs contribution, and I don't feel like seeing things get over-regulated in the docs team. A) Don't we get enough of that in daily life already? Contributing to an OS project is supposed to be fun, not an over-regulated part-time job with as many rules as your day job. On the contrary, this effort is to give clarity to taking screenshots. It is not fun, when you find that there are no people joining in, for example, taking screenshots, because there is no protocol. When the directions are clear and organised, then people join. With lack of clarity, people may show their hands up for a project and then loose faith where there is no help or direction. After all, this is what our LibreOffice is based on, a clear set of directions on how to build great documents. The documentation team uses established styles for their documentation. Imagine, if there were no styles, where would the documentation effort be then? B) It is so easy to scare new contributors off. For some time now, practically every newcomer has faded after just a short time of getting involved. If there's too much outside interference from people who don't actually regularly take part in the English docs team's life, it might not actually help us build a stable docs team, I think that by now everyone can see the pattern, it is the same as with the OOo. There have already been comments on the lists that the same pattern has re-established itself with a core group doing most of the documentation, just as with the OOo. If this is the case (and it is), then our methods need to change. By establishing clear protocols on taking screenshots should enable more people to jump in and help out, and, will also help veteran members speak with one voice with respect to screenshot quality for our great documentation. I am not sure what you call outside interference. In any part of LibreOffice, there are many ways to contribute. Also, sometimes, a new fresh pair of eyes may help out. If you find that you are lacking in contributors and you are doing the same as before (OOo), then maybe, having a change in some aspects of the protocols (in this case, screenshots) may help. C) Personally, I just don't see any need for standardization and uniformization. Bernhard has summed up all of the reasons that were proposed on uniformization on this discussion thread in a recent post. Just in case you missed it, you may find it here: http://www.mail-archive.com/design@global.libreoffice.org/msg02537.html I think he has put it all very eloquently and as plain as possible. I think the reasons for writing up protocols are overwhelming. However, if this thing gets off the ground and has broad support, I'll certainly cooperate as a good team player. I'll be monitoring the conversation. BTW, all this is just my 2 cents. Please don't shoot me down for voicing it. TIA. Hey, no problem, we are all contributing on the conversation and eventually, something will come of it. Now is the time to offer opinions and contributions to the discussion. I have already put up my hand to help out with screenshots and I am sure we will be able to steer newcomers to the documentation team to the screenshots protocols page as a place where they can get their feet wet, while they ramp up to more contributions on the team. Cheers Marc -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Hi Sigrid et al: Le 2011-06-26 04:57, Sigrid Carrera a écrit : Hi Marc, On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 04:11:06 -0400 Marc Parém...@marcpare.com wrote: Le 2011-06-26 01:38, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit : On Sun, 2011-06-26 at 02:15 +0200, Bernhard Dippold wrote: Hi Jean, Sigrid, all, Jean Hollis Weber schrieb: Jean wrote: [...] Well, as you say, there are different needs. The documentation's first need should be that of print quality. If we are to submit our work to LuLu's for print, the buyers should definitely get what we consider a good representation of LibreOffice in type and screenshots. From an aesthetic point of view, not sure if all in gray is too appealing for users making use of reading our documentation online. It would be nice if we got the same print from one of our greens as with a gray. But if not, then gray should be it. BTW ... are the Lulu prints in colour or B/W? For web and marketing teams, the green in the theme is pretty well called for, if we are to keep with the brand colour. It identifies the suite and lends itself well to brand recognition. Would getting an opinion from someone involved at Lulu's be of any additional help as far as the print quality? They may be able to give us a little more input from the point of view of end product. I think we could convince them to offer some opinion on the matter if we had some samples for them to look at. Hm, you're talking to the right person - Jean is the one who is involved with Lulu. :) The books we offer through Lulu are printed in b/w, because colour would be much more expensive. We only have some colour on the title page, the rest is black and white and greyscale. Then, we can all decide (vote). The vocal people and others can all participate on the design decision being well informed on the options, this, as per usual with design proposal and adoption decisions. We are looking at: * a theme that is easily installable by members * a theme optimized for LibreOffice documentation screenshot print * a theme suitable for web and marketing purposes The theme does not necessarily need to be of the same configuration for the two and may lead to 2 theme configurations. That would be ok with me. But I would like to have a decision soon - I'd like to finish the first chapter with the screenshots. I took already 9 shots, but I'm hesitant to take more, if we decide for something different and I have to redo them again. :) Is there anything missing? BTW ... sorry I didn't participate on the testing of the samples as I don't think that I would have a well enough informed opinion on the print quality. I don't think my printer would give a good enough print to compare. No, I think you should have used your printer - print one version in colour and maybe another one in greyscale. See how those printouts look. I suspect, that this is what many people do (not everyone buys the books from Lulu) and not everyone likes reading from a computer screen. (I personally prefer reading from a printout instead of reading from my screen). Sigrid I've gone ahead and printed out the samples in B/W from these pages: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Eskroni/Tests ; http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Clearlooks_-_Green1_-_Liberation_Sans_11pt_bold_.png. These were printed out on my Samsung SCX-4200 laser 600dpi in B/W, unfortunately, I do not have a colour printer. Of the samples that were printed, the ones that I found most legible, were the group 1 colours. From the printout on my computer they had the clearest contrast. Jean mentions that to her the following would be the best compromise (if we were to agree to this) (Note that the lines ending with a ? just need to be confirmed. * Clearlooks theme * Green 2 * Libreration font sans, 11 pt. ? What we did not discuss is the size of the screen capture and quality. Could anyone comment on this? The website and marketing team were following this protocol: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website#Contribution_and_Support Cheers, Marc -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
I am just moving a question/answer that was raised on the documentation team mailing list. As it is related, it should really appear on our discussions on this topic. This has been raised many times, however, I just realised that perhaps many of the NL teams are not aware of the MS claims to copyright of screenshots related to their products. We should also make a point of making these teams aware of these claims and the reasons why we try to avoid some specific screenshots. Here is Sigrid's answer to the OP. Thanks Sigrid for the answer. Cheers Marc === Le 2011-06-29 01:41, Sigrid Carrera a écrit : Hi Javier, *, On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 00:40:46 -0400 Javier Oscar Cordero-Pérezcor...@gmail.com wrote: On 06/28/2011 11:17 PM, Marc Paré wrote: Le 2011-06-28 23:07, Javier Oscar Cordero-Pérez a écrit : On 06/25/2011 09:32 PM, Marc Paré wrote: Le 2011-06-22 00:27, Javier Oscar Cordero-Pérez a écrit : If I were them I would go by leaving the default theme, unless there's plans on mayor UI changes, also would use Windows 7 for the screenshots. I'm a Linux and FLOSS full time user, but Windows would be the best platform for it helps us reach a bigger market share. Most of the users who will read the manuals will run some variant of the MS OS. Not too easy: The microsoft website says: http://www.microsoft.com/About/Legal/EN/US/IntellectualProperty/Permissions/Default.aspx#ERG Use of Microsoft Copyrighted Content Published: April 26, 2005 | Updated: November 13, 2009 Microsoft products and services—including images, text, and software downloads (the content)—are owned either by Microsoft Corporation or by third parties who have granted Microsoft permission to use the content. Microsoft cannot grant you permission for content that is owned by third parties. You may only copy, modify, distribute, display, license, or sell the content if you are granted explicit permission within the End-User License Agreement (EULA) or License Terms that accompany the content or are provided in the following guidelines. For more information, consult your copyright attorney. Requirements for Allowed Uses For permission to be granted for any uses allowed by these guidelines, you must comply with the following four requirements: 1. If your use includes references to a Microsoft product, you must use the full name of the product. When referencing any Microsoft trademarks, follow the General Microsoft Trademark Guidelines. 2. You must include the following statement: Used with permission from Microsoft. 3. Your use may not be obscene or pornographic, and you may not be disparaging, defamatory, or libelous to Microsoft, any of its products, or any other person or entity. 4. You may link to Microsoft content by using either a plain text link with words such as This way to Microsoft.com or by participating in an applicable Link Logo program. No other images may be used as a link to a Microsoft site. And between a lot of other regulations you'll find this: Screen Shots You may not use screen shots of Microsoft product boot-up screens, opening screens, splash screens, or screens from beta release products or other products that have not been commercially released. You may use other screen shots in advertising, in documentation (including educational brochures), in tutorial books, in videotapes, or on Web sites, provided that, in addition to the requirements above, you: 1. Do not alter the screen shot except to resize it. 2. Do not use portions of screen shots. 3. Do not include screen shots in your product user interface. 4. Do not use screen shots that contain third-party content. 5. Do not use screen shots that contain an image of an identifiable individual. Point 2 disqualifies the use of Windows screenshots already. Sigrid === -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Le 2011-06-28 17:23, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit : On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 13:37 -0400, Marc Paré wrote: Of the samples that were printed, the ones that I found most legible, were the group 1 colours. From the printout on my computer they had the clearest contrast. Jean mentions that to her the following would be the best compromise (if we were to agree to this) (Note that the lines ending with a ? just need to be confirmed. * Clearlooks theme * Green 2 * Libreration font sans, 11 pt. ? What we did not discuss is the size of the screen capture and quality. Could anyone comment on this? Could anyone comment on this? The website and marketing team were following this protocol: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website#Contribution_and_Support Most of the screenshots for the user guides are of dialog boxes, and those should be captured at their full size (unlike showing the full window, which is user-variable). Many (most) dialog boxes fit well on the document page just as they are (although their size does vary with contributor's screen resolution), but some are too wide and must be shrunk to page width or cropped. When putting screenshots into user guides, several other consistency and usability issues arise. I have a few guidelines summarised in some document, but they are not as complete as they should be. They include suggestions for cropping for emphasis (best done by the person working on a particular document, who will know what the emphasis needs to be), and guidelines for inserting cropped images at a size that results in a common text size in all the dialog boxes in a document (realising that in a few cases it must be smaller); the weight and color of any lines pointing to items in the dialog box (or circles or boxes around items); the font, weight, and size of any numbers or other text used as labels on a screenshot or in a diagram; what if any background color to put around labels. --Jean Sounds like you had started on a protocol. If we could complete the directions along with samples it will help our screenshot helpers in supplying our teams with the more appropriate shots. Are these somewhere on the wiki? We could help you with completing these if you need any help. Cheers Marc -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Le 2011-07-03 17:32, Jean Weber a écrit : On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 07:16, Marc Parém...@marcpare.com wrote: Looks like this thread has run its course. Should we go ahead and form some kind of rough guideline and then finalize it? The only other thing that we really did not discuss was the use of pointers/cursors. I personally like the OpenZone white pointer/cursor theme. It is available for Gnome and KDE, but it has a very nice defined white cursor arrow and white fill. This would give everyone a standard pointer/cursor theme that they could install. Once we have completed the agreement on the components of the theme, I'll commit to looking into creating an installable theme for the Linux group so that we can easily install it through the Gnome/KDE tools. Not sure about Mac and Windows as I do not have access to a Mac and I only have access to an older WindowsXP box. BTW ... I just read that Jean is away on a short vacation, we do need her participation on this. No decision should be made without her input. I'm here for another 48 hours before I leave. ;-) But seriously I think you can carry on without me. You know my views; they're all in the mail archives. I don't have a veto, just strong opinions. --Jean Thanks Jean, If it does come to a point where we standardize on a screenshot theme and there is a need to update all previous screenshot, I could help update the screenshots for the documentation. As for the value of your strong opinions, let's just say, IMHO I see these more as guidance than opinions. Cheers, Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Le 2011-07-03 18:56, David Nelson a écrit : Hi, On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Marc Parém...@marcpare.com wrote: Looks like this thread has run its course. Should we go ahead and form some kind of rough guideline and then finalize it? The only other thing that we really did not discuss was the use of pointers/cursors. I personally like the OpenZone white pointer/cursor theme. It is available for Gnome and KDE, but it has a very nice defined white cursor arrow and white fill. This would give everyone a standard pointer/cursor theme that they could install. I still don't think this is a really good idea, and the issues have not been fully thought through - the idea that it is a risk for the project to take screenshots under Windows, for instance, is based on false premises for instance. -1 from me. I think we have agreed in the absence of any fact that states otherwise, we are playing it safe and are going to take screenshot on other platforms other than windows. Unless we get a legal opinion that allows us to do so, screenshots will be done this way. This has been already discussed on this thread and others and on OOo threads. I don't know how many more times it needs to be rehashed, unless someone with legal authority jumps in and dispels any liability issues. Personally, I don't think it's worth a fight with MS. We need to pick our battles and this one is really not worth it at this point. Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Le 2011-07-03 21:48, David Nelson a écrit : Doesn't this seem reasonable? In any case, to produce your standardized screenshot theme, you're talking about developing identical/closely similar themes for Mac, Windows and various Linux GUIs (Gnome, KDE, ...). Is this really a priority? And *why* do all screenshots have to look exactly the same? What's wrong with variety? It seems to me that as long as reasonable advice is followed, such as given in the docs team's contributor's guide, there is no really useful purpose served by making LibreOffice always wear the same identical green uniform. Color and variety are the spice of life, and absolutely in keeping with Open Source ethos. ;-) Not sure if you read this but maybe you should take some time. Bernhard has summed up all of the reasons that were proposed on uniformization on this discussion thread in a recent post. Just in case you missed it, you may find it here: http://www.mail-archive.com/design@global.libreoffice.org/msg02537.html I think he has put it all very eloquently and as plain as possible. I think the reasons for writing up protocols are overwhelming. Hope this help clarifying this. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: letter template
Hi Charles Le 2011-07-02 05:07, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : Hello Nikash, all, I would need the letter template with the green scatterpattern to draft the letters for Danishka. Would you or anybody else happen to have it under .ott or .odt? Thanks, Charles. What may be holding some people back is not knowing what or who Danishka is? Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: letter template
Le 2011-07-05 14:48, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : Le Tue, 05 Jul 2011 02:08:38 -0400, Marc Parém...@marcpare.com a écrit : Hi Charles Le 2011-07-02 05:07, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : Hello Nikash, all, I would need the letter template with the green scatterpattern to draft the letters for Danishka. Would you or anybody else happen to have it under .ott or .odt? Thanks, Charles. What may be holding some people back is not knowing what or who Danishka is? LOL . We're taking about Danishka Navin, our man in Sri Lanka, who requested a letter so that a project of printing our documentation be carried on by the local government. He needs letters of introduction, etc. best, Charles. Thanks ... ahem ... and hi to Danishka if he is reading this. *grin* Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Hi Bernhard et al Le 2011-07-05 17:57, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : People should vote *either* for a consistent theme based on Jean's proposal: http://go.mail-archive.com/xUDsiIBlv-ZqBlXMjn971KD2YDw= - Clearlooks theme - Font: Liberation bold - Font size: 11 pt - Highlight foreground color: Libre Green 2 (#43C330) *or* against any proposal to use a consistent theme for screenshots. Based on this decision there should be a wiki page describing how screenshots are recommended to be taken. Existing screenshots should only be replaced when time allows it (for example when the respective chapter or book is worked over). Do we need to add anything else? Are these options to vote on sufficient to consider the different opinions mentioned here? I'd like to wait for another 24 hours for comments and start the voting tomorrow. Best regards Bernhard I had left this as another thing to think about: The only other thing that we really did not discuss was the use of pointers/cursors. I personally like the OpenZone white pointer/cursor theme. It is available for Gnome and KDE[1][2], but it has a very nice defined white cursor arrow and white fill. This would give everyone a standard pointer/cursor theme that they could install. Once we have completed the agreement on the components of the theme, I'll commit to looking into creating an installable theme for the Linux group so that we can easily install it through the Gnome/KDE tools. Not sure about Mac and Windows as I do not have access to a Mac and I only have access to an older WindowsXP box. Not sure if the pointer is a big issue, but if we are going to define guidelines, then we could also define this last little bit. It will make creating a LibreOffice theme easier if it is more complete. I have been using OpenZone for a couple of weeks and it works well. Cheers, Marc [1] http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/OpenZone?content=111343 [2] http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/OpenZone?content=111343 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Le 2011-07-06 02:13, Larry Gusaas a écrit : On 2011/07/05 3:57 PM Bernhard Dippold wrote: Hi Jean, Sigrid, all, thanks for your mails that allow me to go a step further: Sigrid Carrera schrieb: Hi Jean, Bernhard, *all, On Wed, 6 Jul 2011 06:49:04 +1000 Jean Weberjeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: [...] Just for your information: the DE documentation team has voted for the Clearlooks theme with green2 as the colour to use. I'm not very happy with this choice, I would have preferred a less noisy colour with still a good contrast, but it was a majority voting for this. So, we're going to produce screenshots with this theme for our documentation - and if necessary, we will provide screenshots for the website too. I wrote: [...] if you think, a guideline (we recommend ...) leading to similar screenshots in our docs would be a good thing, please let's define the theme, so it can be used on our wiki and we can end this discussion. Guidelines are good and important. I hope we can agree on some guidelines within the whole project soon. Yes, guidelines are good. I am all for guidelines. I have given my opinion on the desirable look of a theme for documentation, and I'll be away for 2.5 weeks so I won't be able to create any more noise on this subject. I hope it's decided by the time I get back. :-) Based on your comments in this thread I want to start a new thread for a vote on this topic. People should vote *either* for a consistent theme based on Jean's proposal: http://go.mail-archive.com/xUDsiIBlv-ZqBlXMjn971KD2YDw= - Clearlooks theme - Font: Liberation bold - Font size: 11 pt - Highlight foreground color: Libre Green 2 (#43C330) *or* against any proposal to use a consistent theme for screenshots. Based on this decision there should be a wiki page describing how screenshots are recommended to be taken. Existing screenshots should only be replaced when time allows it (for example when the respective chapter or book is worked over). Do we need to add anything else? Are these options to vote on sufficient to consider the different opinions mentioned here? I'd like to wait for another 24 hours for comments and start the voting tomorrow. Best regards Bernhard If you adopt this proposal no one using a Mac will be able to make screenshots for your manuals. Your documentation is already lacking in Mac specific content, don't make it worse. The current screenshots are very different from the appearance of LibreOffice on a Mac. Larry Perhaps we should look at it from another viewpoint, If you adopt this proposal people using GNOME/KDE will have a guide with which to take screenshots. This will now allow you time to turn your attention to the Mac and Windows platforms in order to work out a comparable theme. We need to start somewhere, and it seems like the most logical place to start is with the Linux platform, this, due to the uncertainty over Windows copyright giberish and FUD. Logically, again, the Mac users would be next in line to be served up with a LibreOffice theme. If the Mac people could take a look at the suggested guide criteria and come back with proposals, this would help out quite a bit. Many of us do not have Mac's to work out a theme, so we need to collect Mac users interested in working on this. You may be able to do like I did, I asked for help on the KDE forums (theme section). There must be somewhere one could ask on Mac forums for help as well. In the case of the Mac platform, it will take someone who owns a Mac to take the lead. I personally, don't think it will be difficult to create the same on the Windows platform. We will probably have an easy time getting help with this from someone well versed in theme creation. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Hi Jean et al, Le 2011-07-05 16:49, Jean Weber a écrit : I am talking about the screenshots that are already there. Replacing them will be a lot of work and not IMO a high priority. When they need to be replaced for other reasons, then the screenshots should be done in the recommended theme if possible. I also agree that this might not be a high priority. However, if the guidelines are clear, and, if we get more people involved in just managing/taking care of screenshots, then they could take care of updating the previous screenshots. After all, these people would not have been part of the original equation and part of the high priority status ... let's just call these new people extras that could work independently, replacing/upgrading the screenshots. There may be a short mentoring period where some hand holding between the screenshot persons and the design team may occur to set them on the right path. Cheers, Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Hi Sigrid Le 2011-07-06 04:41, Sigrid Carrera a écrit : I'm not sure about the theme for mouse pointers. I usually set Gimp to not include the mouse pointer when taking a screenshot. In this case you won't see it at all. But I guess, there's no harm in suggesting which theme to use for the mouse pointer as well. Sigrid I use Ksnapshot for my screenshots. Have you tried it? I was hoping this would work for LibreOffice screen captures. Cheers, Marc Mageia, KDE 4.6.3 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Le 2011-07-06 06:02, Sigrid Carrera a écrit : Hi Marc, On Wed, 06 Jul 2011 04:53:53 -0400 Marc Parém...@marcpare.com wrote: Hi Sigrid Le 2011-07-06 04:41, Sigrid Carrera a écrit : I'm not sure about the theme for mouse pointers. I usually set Gimp to not include the mouse pointer when taking a screenshot. In this case you won't see it at all. But I guess, there's no harm in suggesting which theme to use for the mouse pointer as well. Sigrid I use Ksnapshot for my screenshots. Have you tried it? I was hoping this would work for LibreOffice screen captures. I know Ksnapshot and I like it very much. But since I changed to the gnome desktop (I have trouble finding my way with the KDE 4 Desktop) I use Gimp instead. And since I want to change/modify the screenshot afterwards anyways, I have it already in the correct program. ;) But if I remember correctly, even with Ksnapshot you can decide, if you want to picture the mouse pointer or not. Maybe Ksnapshot has a different default setting from Gimp. I am sure, that you can use Ksnapshot for your screen captures. Sigrid It would be great if we could have a fast and easy way for people to learn how to do screenshots. Gimp has a little steep learning curve. Could you give me a quick example of what kind of things you would usually change with your screenshots? And yes, with Knapshot, you do have the option of taking a screenshot with or without cursor/pointer. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
