Re: [Snowdrift-dev] Weekly dev status, 2017-09-11

[Bryan Richter]

On 09/11/2017 05:56 PM, Stephen Michel wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Bryan Richter wrote:
>> On 09/11/2017 03:16 PM, Stephen Michel wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>  When we reach alpha, maybe it's time to run our first crowdmatch?
>>>  It'll be below our normal minimum, thus we'll be paying much more in
>>>  stripe fees than we'd like, but the point would be to find pain
>>>  points in the process, not recieve significant sums of money.
>>
>> My answer to your question is both "yes" and "no". Yes we should do
>> the first crowdmatch before October 1. But we won't charge any fees.
>>
>> Recall that there are two processes: crowdmatching and payment
>> processing. A crowdmatch transaction updates the amount that a
>> patron "owes" to a project. Separately, we use Stripe to settle up
>> between patrons and projects. This is just another way of saying that
>> donations roll over to the next month if the amount owed isn't enough
>> to minimize fees.
>>
>> This raises an important point: the significance of these numbers needs
>> to be made clear on the website: current pledge value, current amount
>> "owed", and total amount paid to the project to date.
>>
>> Now, should we do special-case payment processing that ignores our
>> promise about maximum fees? I definitely think not. :) Right now we'd
>> be talking about a 30 cent charge on a 6 cent donation. Bleh
> 
> Ah, let me update my verbiage: I meant to propose that we run a crowdmatch for
> all months that people have been pledging with real credit card numbers, then
> run a payout on that total. So it'd be more like a 35 cent charge on a 45 cent
> donation (for me anyway, newly pledged patrons will be closer to what you
> said).

Well, I don't have the machinery to create retroactive crowdmatch
transactions. We have all the data (pledge histories) to do such a
thing, but I don't know it's worth it. Better to move forward.

> With 67 patrons that's just under $25 in fees. So, let's not do that, but
> maybe let's trigger a payout for just a handful of accounts (those of team
> members), to verify that it will work in The Real World (tm), rather than
> running into issues later that might affect people with less stake in the
> project. :)

I don't have the machinery for doing that, either. :) Not a bad idea,
though.



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Re: [Snowdrift-dev] Weekly dev status, 2017-09-11

[Stephen Michel]

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Bryan Richter  
wrote:

On 09/11/2017 03:16 PM, Stephen Michel wrote:



 On September 11, 2017 5:19:29 AM EDT, Bryan Richter 
 wrote:

 == Last week.

 Code changes: some updates and fixes to the snowdrift project page,
 thanks to Iko.

 == This month.

 My goal for this month is to finish the website and crowdmatch
 mechanism for Alpha. Maybe a bit optimistic. :) But we seem close.
 The mechanism is functional; it just needs testing. The website is
 functional; it just needs testing. What is mainly missing is a 
little
 bit of practice: practice restoring backups, practice analyzing 
logs,

 practice deploying breaking changes -- that sort of thing.

 There's a lot more we *could* do, but there always will be.

 == This week.

 - Start practicing and figuring out where things are the most 
broken

  or flimsy.

 - Do some system administration work. Hard drives are filling up, 
and

  not much is documented.

 - Coordinate with other components of the project. Make sure we 
have

  the bones of a post-Alpha plan.

 - Encourage people to prod the website and report UI problems.

 == "What can I do?"

 - Write tests! Or ask me how. It needs documenting, anyway.

 - Get the haskell-stripe packages back into Stackage.
  https://github.com/dmjio/stripe/issues/76

 - Ask questions about open issues.
  https://git.snowdrift.coop/sd/snowdrift/issues

 Thanks!


 When we reach alpha, maybe it's time to run our first crowdmatch?
 It'll be below our normal minimum, thus we'll be paying much more in
 stripe fees than we'd like, but the point would be to find pain
 points in the process, not recieve significant sums of money.


My answer to your question is both "yes" and "no". Yes we should do
the first crowdmatch before October 1. But we won't charge any fees.

Recall that there are two processes: crowdmatching and payment
processing. A crowdmatch transaction updates the amount that a
patron "owes" to a project. Separately, we use Stripe to settle up
between patrons and projects. This is just another way of saying that
donations roll over to the next month if the amount owed isn't enough
to minimize fees.

This raises an important point: the significance of these numbers 
needs

to be made clear on the website: current pledge value, current amount
"owed", and total amount paid to the project to date.

Now, should we do special-case payment processing that ignores our
promise about maximum fees? I definitely think not. :) Right now we'd
be talking about a 30 cent charge on a 6 cent donation. Bleh


Ah, let me update my verbiage: I meant to propose that we run a 
crowdmatch for all months that people have been pledging with real 
credit card numbers, then run a payout on that total. So it'd be more 
like a 35 cent charge on a 45 cent donation (for me anyway, newly 
pledged patrons will be closer to what you said).


With 67 patrons that's just under $25 in fees. So, let's not do that, 
but maybe let's trigger a payout for just a handful of accounts (those 
of team members), to verify that it will work in The Real World (tm), 
rather than running into issues later that might affect people with 
less stake in the project. :)
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Re: [Snowdrift-dev] Attacked by Space Bug

[jake]

Thank you. I'm happy to help anyway I can. I'll look more into it today.



Jake











 On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 04:40:23 -0700 Bryan Richter 
 wrote 




> On 09/11/2017 08:00 AM, Peter Harpending wrote: 

>> On Sep 10, 2017 11:27 PM, "jake" wrote: 

>> 

>> Hello, I'm Jake. I'm brand new here. In summary, I want "real 

>> world" Haskell experience. (Long version sent to 

>> commun...@snowdrift.coop ;.) 

>> 

>> I tried to build the test platform, but encountered a classic 

>> bug: the space bug. 

>> 

>> Easy to replicate: make a directory with a space in its name, 

>> such as "foo bar". In my case, it was "Backup One". Navigate 

>> (cd) your terminal to this place. Follow the build instructions 

>> in BUILD.md, starting with the "git clone..." line. 

>> 

>> Well, something in the build script does not handle that space. 

>> 

>> Using my example with "Backup One", it expects a Unix socket to 

>> be at: 

>> 

>> /run/media/jthomas/Backup/.s.PGSQL.5432 

>> 

>> Notice the "/Backup/" part should be "/Backup One/". 

>> 

>> Furthermore, navigating to jthomas reveals that there is no 

>> "Backup" directory. So that file really does not exist. 

>> (Sometimes these things make the directories that they think 

>> should exist. Not in this case.) 

>> 

>> 

>> Cheers, Jake 

> Welcome. I'm Peter. 

> 

> If you want to get involved, this would be a good bug for you to 

> fix. It's relatively simple, and you already understand the issue. 

> 

> This would be a low priority issue for us as most developers don't 

> put spaces in file names, so this is unlikely to cause serious 

> issues 

> 

 

Hi Jake, welcome! 

 

Congrats, you ran into a "real world" bug. :) I created an issue to 

track it: https://git.snowdrift.coop/sd/snowdrift/issues/66 . 

 

Like Peter says, it's probably a good place to make a fix. 

Unfortunately it's likely a Bash bug, not a Haskell bug. Probably 

some variable in build.sh needs quoting. 

 

Build bugs are actually always important, so if you don't have a chance 

to get to this, I'll do it this week some time. 

 

Thanks! 

 

-Bryan 

 

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Re: [Snowdrift-dev] Weekly dev status, 2017-09-11

[Bryan Richter]

On 09/11/2017 03:16 PM, Stephen Michel wrote:
> 
> 
> On September 11, 2017 5:19:29 AM EDT, Bryan Richter  
> wrote:
>> == Last week.
>>
>> Code changes: some updates and fixes to the snowdrift project page,
>> thanks to Iko.
>>
>> == This month.
>>
>> My goal for this month is to finish the website and crowdmatch
>> mechanism for Alpha. Maybe a bit optimistic. :) But we seem close.
>> The mechanism is functional; it just needs testing. The website is
>> functional; it just needs testing. What is mainly missing is a little
>> bit of practice: practice restoring backups, practice analyzing logs,
>> practice deploying breaking changes -- that sort of thing.
>>
>> There's a lot more we *could* do, but there always will be.
>>
>> == This week.
>>
>> - Start practicing and figuring out where things are the most broken
>>  or flimsy.
>>
>> - Do some system administration work. Hard drives are filling up, and
>>  not much is documented.
>>
>> - Coordinate with other components of the project. Make sure we have
>>  the bones of a post-Alpha plan.
>>
>> - Encourage people to prod the website and report UI problems.
>>
>> == "What can I do?"
>>
>> - Write tests! Or ask me how. It needs documenting, anyway.
>>
>> - Get the haskell-stripe packages back into Stackage.
>>  https://github.com/dmjio/stripe/issues/76
>>
>> - Ask questions about open issues.
>>  https://git.snowdrift.coop/sd/snowdrift/issues
>>
>> Thanks!
> 
> When we reach alpha, maybe it's time to run our first crowdmatch?
> It'll be below our normal minimum, thus we'll be paying much more in
> stripe fees than we'd like, but the point would be to find pain
> points in the process, not recieve significant sums of money.

My answer to your question is both "yes" and "no". Yes we should do
the first crowdmatch before October 1. But we won't charge any fees.

Recall that there are two processes: crowdmatching and payment
processing. A crowdmatch transaction updates the amount that a
patron "owes" to a project. Separately, we use Stripe to settle up
between patrons and projects. This is just another way of saying that
donations roll over to the next month if the amount owed isn't enough
to minimize fees.

This raises an important point: the significance of these numbers needs
to be made clear on the website: current pledge value, current amount
"owed", and total amount paid to the project to date.

Now, should we do special-case payment processing that ignores our
promise about maximum fees? I definitely think not. :) Right now we'd
be talking about a 30 cent charge on a 6 cent donation. Bleh.



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Re: [Snowdrift-dev] Weekly dev status, 2017-09-11

[Stephen Michel]

On September 11, 2017 5:19:29 AM EDT, Bryan Richter  
wrote:
>== Last week.
>
>Code changes: some updates and fixes to the snowdrift project page,
>thanks to Iko.
>
>== This month.
>
>My goal for this month is to finish the website and crowdmatch
>mechanism for Alpha. Maybe a bit optimistic. :) But we seem close.
>The mechanism is functional; it just needs testing. The website is
>functional; it just needs testing. What is mainly missing is a little
>bit of practice: practice restoring backups, practice analyzing logs,
>practice deploying breaking changes -- that sort of thing.
>
>There's a lot more we *could* do, but there always will be.
>
>== This week.
>
>- Start practicing and figuring out where things are the most broken
>  or flimsy.
>
>- Do some system administration work. Hard drives are filling up, and
>  not much is documented.
>
>- Coordinate with other components of the project. Make sure we have
>  the bones of a post-Alpha plan.
>
>- Encourage people to prod the website and report UI problems.
>
>== "What can I do?"
>
>- Write tests! Or ask me how. It needs documenting, anyway.
>
>- Get the haskell-stripe packages back into Stackage.
>  https://github.com/dmjio/stripe/issues/76
>
>- Ask questions about open issues.
>  https://git.snowdrift.coop/sd/snowdrift/issues
>
>Thanks!

When we reach alpha, maybe it's time to run our first crowdmatch? It'll be 
below our normal minimum, thus we'll be paying much more in stripe fees than 
we'd like, but the point would be to find pain points in the process, not 
recieve significant sums of money.

Since we've told people we'd keep fees below a certain amount, we should also 
send an email out about this, which is an opportunity to work out kinks in 
civi, too :)

-- 
I try to write short, functional emails. http://smichel.me/email
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Re: [Snowdrift-dev] Attacked by Space Bug

[Bryan Richter]

> On 09/11/2017 08:00 AM, Peter Harpending wrote:
>> On Sep 10, 2017 11:27 PM, "jake" wrote:
>> 
>> Hello, I'm Jake. I'm brand new here. In summary, I want "real
>> world" Haskell experience. (Long version sent to
>> commun...@snowdrift.coop .)
>> 
>> I tried to build the test platform, but encountered a classic
>> bug: the space bug.
>> 
>> Easy to replicate: make a directory with a space in its name,
>> such as "foo bar". In my case, it was "Backup One". Navigate
>> (cd) your terminal to this place. Follow the build instructions
>> in BUILD.md, starting with the "git clone..." line.
>> 
>> Well, something in the build script does not handle that space.
>> 
>> Using my example with "Backup One", it expects a Unix socket to
>> be at:
>> 
>> /run/media/jthomas/Backup/.s.PGSQL.5432 
>> 
>> Notice the "/Backup/" part should be "/Backup One/".
>> 
>> Furthermore, navigating to jthomas reveals that there is no
>> "Backup" directory. So that file really does not exist.
>> (Sometimes these things make the directories that they think
>> should exist. Not in this case.)
>> 
>> 
>> Cheers, Jake
> Welcome. I'm Peter. 
> 
> If you want to get involved, this would be a good bug for you to
> fix. It's relatively simple, and you already understand the issue.
> 
> This would be a low priority issue for us as most developers don't
> put spaces in file names, so this is unlikely to cause serious
> issues
> 

Hi Jake, welcome!

Congrats, you ran into a "real world" bug. :) I created an issue to
track it: https://git.snowdrift.coop/sd/snowdrift/issues/66 .

Like Peter says, it's probably a good place to make a fix.
Unfortunately it's likely a Bash bug, not a Haskell bug. Probably
some variable in build.sh needs quoting.

Build bugs are actually always important, so if you don't have a chance
to get to this, I'll do it this week some time.

Thanks!

-Bryan



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[Snowdrift-dev] Weekly dev status, 2017-09-11

[Bryan Richter]

== Last week.

Code changes: some updates and fixes to the snowdrift project page,
thanks to Iko.

== This month.

My goal for this month is to finish the website and crowdmatch
mechanism for Alpha. Maybe a bit optimistic. :) But we seem close.
The mechanism is functional; it just needs testing. The website is
functional; it just needs testing. What is mainly missing is a little
bit of practice: practice restoring backups, practice analyzing logs,
practice deploying breaking changes -- that sort of thing.

There's a lot more we *could* do, but there always will be.

== This week.

- Start practicing and figuring out where things are the most broken
  or flimsy.

- Do some system administration work. Hard drives are filling up, and
  not much is documented.

- Coordinate with other components of the project. Make sure we have
  the bones of a post-Alpha plan.

- Encourage people to prod the website and report UI problems.

== "What can I do?"

- Write tests! Or ask me how. It needs documenting, anyway.

- Get the haskell-stripe packages back into Stackage.
  https://github.com/dmjio/stripe/issues/76

- Ask questions about open issues.
  https://git.snowdrift.coop/sd/snowdrift/issues

Thanks!



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