Re: Forums down (SQL error: Too many connections [1040])
En Forum down again just now. -- Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Forums down (SQL error: Too many connections [1040])
On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:07:01 + Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie wrote: En Forum down again just now. En-Forum now back - only a 15 min outage this time! -- Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [Call-for-Review] code changes for more powerful smarttag extensions
Am Freitag, 15. März 2013, 07:34:17 schrieb Ariel Constenla-Haile: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:45:56AM +0100, Jürgen Schmidt wrote: On 3/15/13 10:20 AM, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote: On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 02:30:26PM +0100, Jürgen Schmidt wrote: - a missing include of XInterface in the new IDL XMarkingAccess.idl, IDL compile error on Mac, surprising that it worked for you This is a bug, the one that removed the need for explicitly inheriting from XInterface should have taken care for not needing to include the IDL, what sounds like a non-sense (do not explicitly inherit, but include the header!). I agree that it's a bug The interface name XMarkingAccess and the method name invalidateMarkings sounds somewhat strange but I have to confess that I don't have a much better name in place. Maybe somebody else has a good name in mind? IMHO what it does is more problematic than how it's named; see my comment on the bug. issue https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121733 Not this one, but https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121732 invalidation should be triggered on a TextMarkupType base, just like in XFlatParagraph::setChecked, otherwise a smart tag extension triggers unnecessary spell and grammar checking. Regards I integrated your suggestions for improvement and updated the related bugzilla entries. Jürgen tried to apply the separate patches to the AOO trunk sources and reported that some of the patch-files were broken. Therefore, I have regenerated the patch files and submitted them again: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121730 https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121731 https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121732 https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121733 https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121734 Regards, Kai Labusch - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: w7snap build error
Hi, On 19.03.2013 21:14, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 12:57:11PM -0700, Andrew Rist wrote: should I kick off a build? I don't have a subversion branch to check out that change, and I've no idea how git-svn works with subversion branches. If you can commit the change yourself, I'm fine. On 3/19/2013 12:30 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 10:53:22AM -0700, Andrew Rist wrote: The snapshot of the sidebar branch is failing on officecfg/Office/UI seems there's a tag missing in xcu file... Error: Missplaced close tag: /oor:component-data in file E:\slave14\aoo-w7snap\build\main\officecfg\registry\data\org\openoffice\Office\UI\Sidebar.xcu in line 640: /oor:component-data dmake: Error code 13, while making '../../../../../../wntmsci12.pro/misc/merge/org/openoffice/Office/UI/Sidebar.xcu' dmake: '../../../../../../wntmsci12.pro/misc/merge/org/openoffice/Office/UI/Sidebar.xcu' removed. It's not a missing tag, it's a stupid code that requires the beginning tag to be in the same line, at least after oor:component-data [something in the same line] [...] It's simply putting the next line in the same line: oor:component-data oor:name=Sidebar Don't ask me why, I didn't look at that code (but obviously sounds like a bug). Ariel, thanks for findings. Strange is also that on my system (Windows 7, cygwin environment) the build of branch sidebar does not break. Best regards, Oliver. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Forums down (SQL error: Too many connections [1040])
Forum back but not very stable. Hagar Message du 20/03/13 10:22 De : Rory O'Farrell A : dev@openoffice.apache.org Copie à : Objet : Re: Forums down (SQL error: Too many connections [1040]) On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:07:01 + Rory O'Farrell wrote: En Forum down again just now. En-Forum now back - only a 15 min outage this time! -- Rory O'Farrell - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org Laposte.net, messager officiel du Rallye des Gazelles en 2013 ! Pour suivre le Rallye Aïcha des Gazelles et soutenir les participantes, cliquez sur www.laposte.net/thematique/rallye-des-gazelles
Re: A question about existing practices
On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Guenter Marxen guenter.mar...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, I have a little bit the impression, that Rob and Jürgen are not understanding, what is meant. There is no demand, that special issues shouldt be resolved asap. There is no demand, to give a date or release, when the issue is resolved. There is only the wish, issues not to reset or to delete, that users find _important to make their work with OpenOffice easier and better_. The fact, that a user does not repeat his comments or requests each year, does not mean, that he is no longer interrested in the issue. It was good practice in the old community (as far as I know), that issues and comments and votes never were reset or deleted. And it would be contra-productive to begin with such customs in the new community. There is no missunderstanding (at least on my side) about this project, the ressources and possibilities and I read (or remember) not any comment by others in this thread, that could be interpreted in this sense. But to mention it here, Rob: There was one developer who cared for 5608 in 2008 (see down under). Hopefully we agree on more than we disagree about. Specifically, I hope we agree that: 1) User feedback is important. If we're not producing what users want then we're in trouble. 2) Getting accurate user feedback is more important than getting just any user feedback. In other words, if user feedback is important, then it is also important that we get user feedback in a way that is accurate, unbiased and reflective of typical user preferences. 3) Knowing what users want *today* is more important than know what their preferences were 10 years ago. This is living project not an archive of trends and fads from 2002. Although we might all have *opinions* on what user preferences are today, and we might even *believe* that they is unchanged over the last decade, this *belief* is an inadequate substitute for actually measuring what user preferences are today (Again, if it is important, then it is important to do it right). 4) The rank ordering of preferences is what counts, not any absolute vote count. Whether the #1 issues has 4000 votes, 400 votes or 40 votes, does not matter, provided the votes are representative and unbiased. 5) If user preferences in fact have not changed over the last decade then resetting the vote counts would have no effect on the rank ordering. We would quickly arrive at the same rankings, although there would be a different absolute vote count. But if preferences have changed then the ranks might be different. But either way, whether this confirms the past preferences or shows new preferences, this information is very valuable to have, more so than preserving a museum of historical votes. Hopefully we agree on the above. Given that, I believe the existing historical vote counts have strong methodological problems and are almost useful for determining what user preferences actually are. Consider: Since 2002 we have received 9569 feature/enhancement requests. Of those 2747 received at least one vote. But that means that most of them, 71%, received no votes, not even from their original submitters. This suggests lack of awareness that voting was even possible. There is also evidence that many who voted were targeted by various lobbying efforts, via list or forum posts, or even blog posts, to please vote for my issue. So high vote counts are the product of political efforts by project insiders, astroturfing more than actual typical user preferences. We know, from other feedback mechanisms, like Facebook, the users mailing list, etc., that the #1 feature request *today* is for an iOS or Android version of OpenOffice. We get requests like this every day, sometimes more than once day. Guess how many votes this request has in Bugzilla? Zero. Actually, this is a trick question. No one has even bothered to enter this as a feature request in Bugzilla. But that proves the point. We have extremely strong reason to believe that the Bugzilla vote counts do not reflect user preferences today. The Bugzilla vote counts, in the large view of things, are extremely thin. around 400 votes for the top issue over a decade for a product that gets 1 million downloads a week. We have the ability to get real user feedback, in a much more representative way. Why would we be satisfied with the 10 year old dubious vote counts a small number of project insiders? In summary, I'm trying very hard to make user feedback count for something in this project. But that means we need good data. I could use your help, rather than your resistance, to encourage the project to gather accurate, representative, unbiased feedback. Again, I see no reason to fear this. If your particular issue is truly something users want, then it will rise to the top in any unbiased survey right? And if it is not something users want, then we do a disservice to the project if we
Re: Forums down (SQL error: Too many connections [1040])
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 5:22 AM, Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie wrote: On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:07:01 + Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie wrote: En Forum down again just now. En-Forum now back - only a 15 min outage this time! If this is going to be a regular occurrence, I wonder if we should put some sort of outage notice on our main support webpage? We can then direct users to the users mailing list if the forum us down. -Rob -- Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [Call-for-Review] code changes for more powerful smarttag extensions
On 3/20/13 10:26 AM, Kai Labusch wrote: Am Freitag, 15. März 2013, 07:34:17 schrieb Ariel Constenla-Haile: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:45:56AM +0100, Jürgen Schmidt wrote: On 3/15/13 10:20 AM, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote: On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 02:30:26PM +0100, Jürgen Schmidt wrote: - a missing include of XInterface in the new IDL XMarkingAccess.idl, IDL compile error on Mac, surprising that it worked for you This is a bug, the one that removed the need for explicitly inheriting from XInterface should have taken care for not needing to include the IDL, what sounds like a non-sense (do not explicitly inherit, but include the header!). I agree that it's a bug The interface name XMarkingAccess and the method name invalidateMarkings sounds somewhat strange but I have to confess that I don't have a much better name in place. Maybe somebody else has a good name in mind? IMHO what it does is more problematic than how it's named; see my comment on the bug. issue https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121733 Not this one, but https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121732 invalidation should be triggered on a TextMarkupType base, just like in XFlatParagraph::setChecked, otherwise a smart tag extension triggers unnecessary spell and grammar checking. Regards I integrated your suggestions for improvement and updated the related bugzilla entries. Jürgen tried to apply the separate patches to the AOO trunk sources and reported that some of the patch-files were broken. Therefore, I have regenerated the patch files and submitted them again: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121730 https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121731 https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121732 https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121733 https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121734 I have built with your latest changes and tested my adapted example SmartTag. Everything works and I plan to apply the patches today to have them on trunk for further testing and potentially for further changes/improvements on demand. Thanks Juergen Regards, Kai Labusch - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
What I miss a bit at the project
Hi all At the old OpenOffice project we have had different IRC Channels. Same were more active then others, but we have had a load more activity then now. The fact, that not a load Apache Projects use IRC does not mean that we are not allowed to use IRC. We are not allowed to make dessisions at the IRC, because Apache has clear rouls for dessicion making. IRC has many avantage over a ML. You can discouss problemes life. You have often much faster a answare. And at same problems. work togeter is more afective and make more. I realy would like a more active IRC Channel. I propose #dev.openoffice.org at freenode as our main channel. I encourage you to jump in too. Greetings Raphael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What I miss a bit at the project
Hm. Why use #openoffice.org when, say, #openoffice or the like, would do? louis On 20 March 2013 09:28, Raphael Bircher r.birc...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi all At the old OpenOffice project we have had different IRC Channels. Same were more active then others, but we have had a load more activity then now. The fact, that not a load Apache Projects use IRC does not mean that we are not allowed to use IRC. We are not allowed to make dessisions at the IRC, because Apache has clear rouls for dessicion making. IRC has many avantage over a ML. You can discouss problemes life. You have often much faster a answare. And at same problems. work togeter is more afective and make more. I realy would like a more active IRC Channel. I propose #dev.openoffice.org at freenode as our main channel. I encourage you to jump in too. Greetings Raphael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: A question about existing practices
On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Hagar Delest wrote: if the votes are reset, I'll take it as a huge setback for the users decisions Resetting votes does not make sense. There is a limit on how many bugs a user can vote for and votes can be reallocated, so it isn't necessarily true that an old bug has more votes just because it's been around for longer. But it's true that we are not advertising the possibility to vote as much as we used to: many new users are likely unaware that they can vote. I was curious to check my intuition on this. So with a bit of effort I was able to get the following data out of Bugzilla, showing the yearly percentage of enhancement or feature issue types have had at least one vote. So it is showing for issues entered in that year, what % of those issues have received votes. Year %Votes 2002 45% 2003 39% 2004 34% 2005 31% 2006 30% 2007 24% 2008 23% 2009 23% 2010 14% 20115% 20126% 20132% I see a trend here, a very strong one. Plot it and you see a nearly linear trend (r = - 0.98). Older issues have received more votes than new issuers. There could be several reasons for this: 1) Older issues are better issues because they were entered by smarter people. But then the linear trend is then odd. Did people become less smart in such a regular way over the years? 2) Older issues have been around longer so they have had a longer opportunity to be voted on. This very naturally would explain a linear trend. 3) Users have become less interested in or aware of voting. But again, it hard to explain the gradual linear trend. Why for example, would users in 2010 entering an issue not even vote for their own issue 90% of the time, but in 2002 nearly half of those issues received votes? In any case, this is one reason why I take the old vote counts cum grano salis. For whatever reason the votes are biased toward older issues. -Rob [Rob] Google Moderator was far easier to use for users than BZ is. That is why we received far more feedback with Moderator. I'm sorry that the troglodytes don't like that. Not only troglodytes. Many users interpret the votes in Bugzilla as their opportunity to influence the OpenOffice decisions (and would find offensive to be assimilated to troglodytes). Honestly, except for a couple of occasions years ago when a review of most voted issues was done, votes are scarcely taken into consideration. This is the problem. There is room for improvement here: you once posted the most voted issues, but if we made it regularly and we committed to fixing the most voted issues (or, more realistically, to direct to the most voted issues people who want to help with development or sponsor it), things would improve. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What I miss a bit at the project
Hi Rafael, as you know we had several channels on freenode.net #openoffice.org (user channel) #dev.openoffice.org (developer channel) #qa.openoffice.org (qa channel) +1 to use IRC and not to use tools like Google+ or Facebook or the like... I realy would like a more active IRC Channel. I propose #dev.openoffice.org at freenode as our main channel. I encourage you to jump in too. Kind regards, Joost - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: A question about existing practices
Hi Rob, maybe it has other reasons like missing access to the former OOo login on the Apache infrastructure eg. one thing that went wrong with my OOo account. There could be several reasons for this: 1) Older issues are better issues because they were entered by smarter people. But then the linear trend is then odd. Did people become less smart in such a regular way over the years? 2) Older issues have been around longer so they have had a longer opportunity to be voted on. This very naturally would explain a linear trend. 3) Users have become less interested in or aware of voting. But again, it hard to explain the gradual linear trend. Why for example, would users in 2010 entering an issue not even vote for their own issue 90% of the time, but in 2002 nearly half of those issues received votes? In any case, this is one reason why I take the old vote counts cum grano salis. For whatever reason the votes are biased toward older issues. Kind regards, Joost - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: A question about existing practices
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Joost Andrae joost.and...@gmx.de wrote: Hi Rob, maybe it has other reasons like missing access to the former OOo login on the Apache infrastructure eg. one thing that went wrong with my OOo account. But that doesn't explain the steady decline from 2002 to 2010, for example. But whatever the reason, I think it demonstrates that vote counts from the earlier years are extremely difficult to compare fairly with recent vote counts. And the fact that we don't even have a formal RFE for iOS or Android, even though we get daily requests for this via other means is odd too. It suggests that *how* users give feedback has changed. Maybe in 2002 it was via Bugzilla. But today we get more feedback from Facebook and Twitter than we do Bugzilla. IMHO we need to adapt to how users actually express preferences today rather than assume that they are in tune with a Bugzilla based feedback mechanism from 2002. -Rob There could be several reasons for this: 1) Older issues are better issues because they were entered by smarter people. But then the linear trend is then odd. Did people become less smart in such a regular way over the years? 2) Older issues have been around longer so they have had a longer opportunity to be voted on. This very naturally would explain a linear trend. 3) Users have become less interested in or aware of voting. But again, it hard to explain the gradual linear trend. Why for example, would users in 2010 entering an issue not even vote for their own issue 90% of the time, but in 2002 nearly half of those issues received votes? In any case, this is one reason why I take the old vote counts cum grano salis. For whatever reason the votes are biased toward older issues. Kind regards, Joost - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What I miss a bit at the project
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Raphael Bircher r.birc...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi all At the old OpenOffice project we have had different IRC Channels. Same were more active then others, but we have had a load more activity then now. The fact, that not a load Apache Projects use IRC does not mean that we are not allowed to use IRC. We are not allowed to make dessisions at the IRC, because Apache has clear rouls for dessicion making. IRC has many avantage over a ML. You can discouss problemes life. You have often much faster a answare. And at same problems. work togeter is more afective and make more. I realy would like a more active IRC Channel. I propose #dev.openoffice.org at freenode as our main channel. I encourage you to jump in too. It would be wonderful if someone could update this wiki page: http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/IRC_Communication And also maybe put a link to it on the website someplace, maybe even a link from the navigator on http://openoffice.apache.org, next to mailing lists. -Rob Greetings Raphael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What I miss a bit at the project
IRC is great and all, and I'm all for having as many channels as people feel a need for. Just keep in mind that the ASF approach to projects is to ensure that decision making is done in public and very openly. I think the implication of that is that most discussion that leads directly to a decision, and definitely any actual decision making, should happen on the mailing list(s). That's the way I've always understood it anyway. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. Phil On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Raphael Bircher r.birc...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi all At the old OpenOffice project we have had different IRC Channels. Same were more active then others, but we have had a load more activity then now. The fact, that not a load Apache Projects use IRC does not mean that we are not allowed to use IRC. We are not allowed to make dessisions at the IRC, because Apache has clear rouls for dessicion making. IRC has many avantage over a ML. You can discouss problemes life. You have often much faster a answare. And at same problems. work togeter is more afective and make more. I realy would like a more active IRC Channel. I propose #dev.openoffice.org at freenode as our main channel. I encourage you to jump in too. Greetings Raphael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: A question about existing practices
Rob Weir wrote: On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Hagar Delest wrote: if the votes are reset, I'll take it as a huge setback for the users decisions Resetting votes does not make sense. There is a limit on how many bugs a user can vote for and votes can be reallocated, so it isn't necessarily true that an old bug has more votes just because it's been around for longer. But it's true that we are not advertising the possibility to vote as much as we used to: many new users are likely unaware that they can vote. I was curious to check my intuition on this. So with a bit of effort I was able to get the following data out of Bugzilla, showing the yearly percentage of enhancement or feature issue types have had at least one vote. So it is showing for issues entered in that year, what % of those issues have received votes. Year %Votes 2002 45% 2003 39% 2004 34% 2005 31% 2006 30% 2007 24% 2008 23% 2009 23% 2010 14% 20115% 20126% 20132% I see a trend here, a very strong one. Plot it and you see a nearly linear trend (r = - 0.98). Older issues have received more votes than new issuers. There could be several reasons for this: 1) Older issues are better issues because they were entered by smarter people. But then the linear trend is then odd. Did people become less smart in such a regular way over the years? 2) Older issues have been around longer so they have had a longer opportunity to be voted on. This very naturally would explain a linear trend. 3) Users have become less interested in or aware of voting. But again, it hard to explain the gradual linear trend. Why for example, would users in 2010 entering an issue not even vote for their own issue 90% of the time, but in 2002 nearly half of those issues received votes? Or it could be that people just got frustrated over time that nothing ever happened and stopped voting or moved on to other applications that better met there needs. The bottom line is that we do not know why it happened and trying to make decisions based on it does not make sense. Regards Keith In any case, this is one reason why I take the old vote counts cum grano salis. For whatever reason the votes are biased toward older issues. -Rob [Rob] Google Moderator was far easier to use for users than BZ is. That is why we received far more feedback with Moderator. I'm sorry that the troglodytes don't like that. Not only troglodytes. Many users interpret the votes in Bugzilla as their opportunity to influence the OpenOffice decisions (and would find offensive to be assimilated to troglodytes). Honestly, except for a couple of occasions years ago when a review of most voted issues was done, votes are scarcely taken into consideration. This is the problem. There is room for improvement here: you once posted the most voted issues, but if we made it regularly and we committed to fixing the most voted issues (or, more realistically, to direct to the most voted issues people who want to help with development or sponsor it), things would improve. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: A question about existing practices
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Keith N. McKenna keith.mcke...@comcast.net wrote: Rob Weir wrote: On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Hagar Delest wrote: if the votes are reset, I'll take it as a huge setback for the users decisions Resetting votes does not make sense. There is a limit on how many bugs a user can vote for and votes can be reallocated, so it isn't necessarily true that an old bug has more votes just because it's been around for longer. But it's true that we are not advertising the possibility to vote as much as we used to: many new users are likely unaware that they can vote. I was curious to check my intuition on this. So with a bit of effort I was able to get the following data out of Bugzilla, showing the yearly percentage of enhancement or feature issue types have had at least one vote. So it is showing for issues entered in that year, what % of those issues have received votes. Year %Votes 2002 45% 2003 39% 2004 34% 2005 31% 2006 30% 2007 24% 2008 23% 2009 23% 2010 14% 20115% 20126% 20132% I see a trend here, a very strong one. Plot it and you see a nearly linear trend (r = - 0.98). Older issues have received more votes than new issuers. There could be several reasons for this: 1) Older issues are better issues because they were entered by smarter people. But then the linear trend is then odd. Did people become less smart in such a regular way over the years? 2) Older issues have been around longer so they have had a longer opportunity to be voted on. This very naturally would explain a linear trend. 3) Users have become less interested in or aware of voting. But again, it hard to explain the gradual linear trend. Why for example, would users in 2010 entering an issue not even vote for their own issue 90% of the time, but in 2002 nearly half of those issues received votes? Or it could be that people just got frustrated over time that nothing ever happened and stopped voting or moved on to other applications that better met there needs. The bottom line is that we do not know why it happened and trying to make decisions based on it does not make sense. Oh, but I don't need to explain why this has happened. I only need to note that it did happen to question whether the older vote counts are an accurate reflection of user preferences today. -Rob Regards Keith In any case, this is one reason why I take the old vote counts cum grano salis. For whatever reason the votes are biased toward older issues. -Rob [Rob] Google Moderator was far easier to use for users than BZ is. That is why we received far more feedback with Moderator. I'm sorry that the troglodytes don't like that. Not only troglodytes. Many users interpret the votes in Bugzilla as their opportunity to influence the OpenOffice decisions (and would find offensive to be assimilated to troglodytes). Honestly, except for a couple of occasions years ago when a review of most voted issues was done, votes are scarcely taken into consideration. This is the problem. There is room for improvement here: you once posted the most voted issues, but if we made it regularly and we committed to fixing the most voted issues (or, more realistically, to direct to the most voted issues people who want to help with development or sponsor it), things would improve. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: A question about existing practices
FWLIW, passive users of Apache projects generally expect and get very little direct say in what features get actively developed and put back into the project. OTOH, people who actively contribute, by either supplying patches, or filing quality and timely bug reports with enough details for some developer to easily resolve the issue for them, do enjoy some say in the overall direction of the feature sets. OTOH, simply counting votes on issues is not one of the considerations that goes into this sort of mindset most Apache projects have. HTH From: Rob Weir robw...@apache.org To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 11:25 AM Subject: Re: A question about existing practices On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Keith N. McKenna keith.mcke...@comcast.net wrote: Rob Weir wrote: On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Hagar Delest wrote: if the votes are reset, I'll take it as a huge setback for the users decisions Resetting votes does not make sense. There is a limit on how many bugs a user can vote for and votes can be reallocated, so it isn't necessarily true that an old bug has more votes just because it's been around for longer. But it's true that we are not advertising the possibility to vote as much as we used to: many new users are likely unaware that they can vote. I was curious to check my intuition on this. So with a bit of effort I was able to get the following data out of Bugzilla, showing the yearly percentage of enhancement or feature issue types have had at least one vote. So it is showing for issues entered in that year, what % of those issues have received votes. Year %Votes 2002 45% 2003 39% 2004 34% 2005 31% 2006 30% 2007 24% 2008 23% 2009 23% 2010 14% 2011 5% 2012 6% 2013 2% I see a trend here, a very strong one. Plot it and you see a nearly linear trend (r = - 0.98). Older issues have received more votes than new issuers. There could be several reasons for this: 1) Older issues are better issues because they were entered by smarter people. But then the linear trend is then odd. Did people become less smart in such a regular way over the years? 2) Older issues have been around longer so they have had a longer opportunity to be voted on. This very naturally would explain a linear trend. 3) Users have become less interested in or aware of voting. But again, it hard to explain the gradual linear trend. Why for example, would users in 2010 entering an issue not even vote for their own issue 90% of the time, but in 2002 nearly half of those issues received votes? Or it could be that people just got frustrated over time that nothing ever happened and stopped voting or moved on to other applications that better met there needs. The bottom line is that we do not know why it happened and trying to make decisions based on it does not make sense. Oh, but I don't need to explain why this has happened. I only need to note that it did happen to question whether the older vote counts are an accurate reflection of user preferences today. -Rob Regards Keith In any case, this is one reason why I take the old vote counts cum grano salis. For whatever reason the votes are biased toward older issues. -Rob [Rob] Google Moderator was far easier to use for users than BZ is. That is why we received far more feedback with Moderator. I'm sorry that the troglodytes don't like that. Not only troglodytes. Many users interpret the votes in Bugzilla as their opportunity to influence the OpenOffice decisions (and would find offensive to be assimilated to troglodytes). Honestly, except for a couple of occasions years ago when a review of most voted issues was done, votes are scarcely taken into consideration. This is the problem. There is room for improvement here: you once posted the most voted issues, but if we made it regularly and we committed to fixing the most voted issues (or, more realistically, to direct to the most voted issues people who want to help with development or sponsor it), things would improve. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What I miss a bit at the project
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Phillip Rhodes motley.crue@gmail.com wrote: IRC is great and all, and I'm all for having as many channels as people feel a need for. Just keep in mind that the ASF approach to projects is to ensure that decision making is done in public and very openly. I think the implication of that is that most discussion that leads directly to a decision, and definitely any actual decision making, should happen on the mailing list(s). That's the way I've always understood it anyway. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. That's the general idea. But not everything needs discussion. JFDI has a place as well. For example, if the build broke and the developers meet in IRC to figure out how to fix it, I'd expect them to just JFDI. No need to report back to the dev list or discuss further or to ask permission. The commit logs will record what was done. But in general, decisions are not urgent. They don't need to be made at short notice. So the mailing list is more respectful of participation of project members in many time zones, including many native languages, and individuals who might need to check a dictionary occasionally to understand what is said. The mailing list is inclusive. Real-time meetings, in person, via phone, Google Hangouts, IRC, etc., are tied to a specific time, and so they are less inclusive. But they still have a role to play, I think. -Rob Phil On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Raphael Bircher r.birc...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi all At the old OpenOffice project we have had different IRC Channels. Same were more active then others, but we have had a load more activity then now. The fact, that not a load Apache Projects use IRC does not mean that we are not allowed to use IRC. We are not allowed to make dessisions at the IRC, because Apache has clear rouls for dessicion making. IRC has many avantage over a ML. You can discouss problemes life. You have often much faster a answare. And at same problems. work togeter is more afective and make more. I realy would like a more active IRC Channel. I propose #dev.openoffice.org at freenode as our main channel. I encourage you to jump in too. Greetings Raphael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Forums down (SQL error: Too many connections [1040])
If this is going to be a regular occurrence Sorry but the best thing to do is to fix this issue. Since a couple of days, I asked to check the MySQL max_connections parameter. Somebody did it? With each passing day, we lose users that search some help on other forums. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What I miss a bit at the project
Well said, Rob. I should have been more explicit in explaining that when I say decision making I mean big decisions for some value of big. It's a little bit subjective and will always be a judgment call, but I think your example is perfect. How to fix the broken build can absolutely be done on IRC. Deciding to rewrite Calc in Ada, OTOH would not be something you would want to do on IRC. Personally I'm looking forward to a move active IRC presence for AOO people, as I'm a big IRC fan. I just want to make sure we stay aligned with the Apache Way. Phil On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Phillip Rhodes motley.crue@gmail.com wrote: IRC is great and all, and I'm all for having as many channels as people feel a need for. Just keep in mind that the ASF approach to projects is to ensure that decision making is done in public and very openly. I think the implication of that is that most discussion that leads directly to a decision, and definitely any actual decision making, should happen on the mailing list(s). That's the way I've always understood it anyway. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. That's the general idea. But not everything needs discussion. JFDI has a place as well. For example, if the build broke and the developers meet in IRC to figure out how to fix it, I'd expect them to just JFDI. No need to report back to the dev list or discuss further or to ask permission. The commit logs will record what was done. But in general, decisions are not urgent. They don't need to be made at short notice. So the mailing list is more respectful of participation of project members in many time zones, including many native languages, and individuals who might need to check a dictionary occasionally to understand what is said. The mailing list is inclusive. Real-time meetings, in person, via phone, Google Hangouts, IRC, etc., are tied to a specific time, and so they are less inclusive. But they still have a role to play, I think. -Rob Phil On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Raphael Bircher r.birc...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi all At the old OpenOffice project we have had different IRC Channels. Same were more active then others, but we have had a load more activity then now. The fact, that not a load Apache Projects use IRC does not mean that we are not allowed to use IRC. We are not allowed to make dessisions at the IRC, because Apache has clear rouls for dessicion making. IRC has many avantage over a ML. You can discouss problemes life. You have often much faster a answare. And at same problems. work togeter is more afective and make more. I realy would like a more active IRC Channel. I propose #dev.openoffice.org at freenode as our main channel. I encourage you to jump in too. Greetings Raphael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: A question about existing practices
On 3/20/13, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Hagar Delest wrote: if the votes are reset, I'll take it as a huge setback for the users decisions Resetting votes does not make sense. There is a limit on how many bugs a user can vote for and votes can be reallocated, so it isn't necessarily true that an old bug has more votes just because it's been around for longer. But it's true that we are not advertising the possibility to vote as much as we used to: many new users are likely unaware that they can vote. I was curious to check my intuition on this. So with a bit of effort I was able to get the following data out of Bugzilla, showing the yearly percentage of enhancement or feature issue types have had at least one vote. So it is showing for issues entered in that year, what % of those issues have received votes. Year%Votes 200245% 200339% 200434% 200531% 200630% 200724% 200823% 200923% 201014% 2011 5% 2012 6% 2013 2% I see a trend here, a very strong one. Plot it and you see a nearly linear trend (r = - 0.98). Older issues have received more votes than new issuers. There could be several reasons for this: 1) Older issues are better issues because they were entered by smarter people. But then the linear trend is then odd. Did people become less smart in such a regular way over the years? 2) Older issues have been around longer so they have had a longer opportunity to be voted on. This very naturally would explain a linear trend. +1 3) Users have become less interested in or aware of voting. But again, it hard to explain the gradual linear trend. Why for example, would users in 2010 entering an issue not even vote for their own issue 90% of the time, but in 2002 nearly half of those issues received votes? In any case, this is one reason why I take the old vote counts cum grano salis. For whatever reason the votes are biased toward older issues. -Rob [Rob] Google Moderator was far easier to use for users than BZ is. That is why we received far more feedback with Moderator. I'm sorry that the troglodytes don't like that. Not only troglodytes. Many users interpret the votes in Bugzilla as their opportunity to influence the OpenOffice decisions (and would find offensive to be assimilated to troglodytes). Honestly, except for a couple of occasions years ago when a review of most voted issues was done, votes are scarcely taken into consideration. This is the problem. There is room for improvement here: you once posted the most voted issues, but if we made it regularly and we committed to fixing the most voted issues (or, more realistically, to direct to the most voted issues people who want to help with development or sponsor it), things would improve. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://es.openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: What I miss a bit at the project
+1 There's also the problem of synchronicity. Living in gmt-0800 (now gmt-0700 until the end of October), it is very difficult to find an useful window. And if I am not present, I am not aware and have no available record. The Apach lists and procedures recognize the need for asynchronous activity and allowing for the different times and availabilities of participants. I personally do not use IRC much, and even in conference calls I avoid instant design as much as possible. That's my personal dynamic for managing multiple activities. I gather that there are folks who find IRC very useful. My closest to that is some regular, time-blocked Google+ Hangout meetings. They have the advantage of audio (plus video), even though one can use chat in a sidebar. I am not objecting to IRC. But it is not a panacea. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Phillip Rhodes [mailto:motley.crue@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 08:19 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: What I miss a bit at the project IRC is great and all, and I'm all for having as many channels as people feel a need for. Just keep in mind that the ASF approach to projects is to ensure that decision making is done in public and very openly. I think the implication of that is that most discussion that leads directly to a decision, and definitely any actual decision making, should happen on the mailing list(s). That's the way I've always understood it anyway. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. Phil On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Raphael Bircher r.birc...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi all At the old OpenOffice project we have had different IRC Channels. Same were more active then others, but we have had a load more activity then now. The fact, that not a load Apache Projects use IRC does not mean that we are not allowed to use IRC. We are not allowed to make dessisions at the IRC, because Apache has clear rouls for dessicion making. IRC has many avantage over a ML. You can discouss problemes life. You have often much faster a answare. And at same problems. work togeter is more afective and make more. I realy would like a more active IRC Channel. I propose #dev.openoffice.org at freenode as our main channel. I encourage you to jump in too. Greetings Raphael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What I miss a bit at the project
The lack of available record thing can be addressed - to some extent - by logging the channel traffic and posting the log somewhere where it will be publicly available. Offhand, I'd say this is something we should do, if we aren't already, to the extent that we use IRC. Phil On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote: +1 There's also the problem of synchronicity. Living in gmt-0800 (now gmt-0700 until the end of October), it is very difficult to find an useful window. And if I am not present, I am not aware and have no available record. The Apach lists and procedures recognize the need for asynchronous activity and allowing for the different times and availabilities of participants. I personally do not use IRC much, and even in conference calls I avoid instant design as much as possible. That's my personal dynamic for managing multiple activities. I gather that there are folks who find IRC very useful. My closest to that is some regular, time-blocked Google+ Hangout meetings. They have the advantage of audio (plus video), even though one can use chat in a sidebar. I am not objecting to IRC. But it is not a panacea. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Phillip Rhodes [mailto:motley.crue@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 08:19 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: What I miss a bit at the project IRC is great and all, and I'm all for having as many channels as people feel a need for. Just keep in mind that the ASF approach to projects is to ensure that decision making is done in public and very openly. I think the implication of that is that most discussion that leads directly to a decision, and definitely any actual decision making, should happen on the mailing list(s). That's the way I've always understood it anyway. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. Phil On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Raphael Bircher r.birc...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi all At the old OpenOffice project we have had different IRC Channels. Same were more active then others, but we have had a load more activity then now. The fact, that not a load Apache Projects use IRC does not mean that we are not allowed to use IRC. We are not allowed to make dessisions at the IRC, because Apache has clear rouls for dessicion making. IRC has many avantage over a ML. You can discouss problemes life. You have often much faster a answare. And at same problems. work togeter is more afective and make more. I realy would like a more active IRC Channel. I propose #dev.openoffice.org at freenode as our main channel. I encourage you to jump in too. Greetings Raphael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: A question about existing practices
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 9:44 AM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I was curious to check my intuition on this. So with a bit of effort I was able to get the following data out of Bugzilla, showing the yearly percentage of enhancement or feature issue types have had at least one vote. So it is showing for issues entered in that year, what % of those issues have received votes. Year %Votes 2002 45% 2003 39% 2004 34% 2005 31% 2006 30% 2007 24% 2008 23% 2009 23% 2010 14% 20115% 20126% 20132% Is there a way to list bugs in order by the number of votes they've received? I couldn't find votes in the axis fields under tabular reports. Don - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: A question about existing practices
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Donald Whytock dwhyt...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 9:44 AM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I was curious to check my intuition on this. So with a bit of effort I was able to get the following data out of Bugzilla, showing the yearly percentage of enhancement or feature issue types have had at least one vote. So it is showing for issues entered in that year, what % of those issues have received votes. Year %Votes 2002 45% 2003 39% 2004 34% 2005 31% 2006 30% 2007 24% 2008 23% 2009 23% 2010 14% 20115% 20126% 20132% Is there a way to list bugs in order by the number of votes they've received? I couldn't find votes in the axis fields under tabular reports. You can use the vote count when defining a search criterion. But I have not seen a way to put the vote count into a column for display in the search results. -Rob Don - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: A question about existing practices
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: Now, if we had a way to get the detailed counts on issues, and do this over time, then we could find a way of highlighting trending issues, e.g., those that have recently been getting more votes, or more comments. (The number of users who have commented on the issue is perhaps more interesting than the number of votes). That might be a way of focusing in on what users think is important *today* without resetting vote counts. Bugzilla apparently has the capacity to sort on votes, per this report on their sample site: https://landfill.bugzilla.org/bugzilla-4.2-branch/report.cgi?x_axis_field=y_axis_field=votesz_axis_field=query_format=report-tableshort_desc_type=allwordssubstrshort_desc=resolution=---longdesc_type=allwordssubstrlongdesc=bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstrbug_file_loc=status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstrstatus_whiteboard=keywords_type=allwordskeywords=bug_id=bug_id_type=anyexactemailassigned_to1=1emailtype1=substringemail1=emailassigned_to2=1emailreporter2=1emailqa_contact2=1emailcc2=1emailtype2=substringemail2=emaillongdesc3=1emailtype3=substringemail3=chfieldvalue=chfieldfrom=chfieldto=Nowj_top=ANDf1=noopo1=noopv1=format=tableaction=wrap Also in that sample site I was able to do a search, then use Change Columns at the bottom of the page and add Votes as an output column. So maybe this project's Bugzilla isn't configured correctly...? Don - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: building rpms for fedora rawhide
Ug, I wish I did this earlier. I don't have anything to add at this time. But I'll update this next time I find a new wrinkle in fedora rawhide that we need. At this point, I'm working on aooo build deps for fedora. Fred On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 10:02 AM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Fred Ollinger folli...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know where this is at, but I heard that people wanted this. So far, I have a spec file for dmake. I need to fix a few errors and warnings, but it does make an rpm which works. I'm keeping my work here: https://github.com/fredollinger/aooo-fedora-rawhide Next move is an rpm for esp. Then I'll move on to aooo. If this is pointless, please don't let me know. I want to learn to build rpms, etc. If there's something else that I can do which is just as easy, but more pressing, please let me know. sincerely, Fred - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org This is great to know really! Would you mind if this information was added to our current Linux Building information: http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_Linux or maybe you could update some of the Fedora information when you get a moment? -- MzK Achieving happiness requires the right combination of Zen and Zin. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: CDN for Open Office - EdgeCast Networks
On 19/03/2013 Alex LaFleur wrote: Who would be the correct person to speak with at Open Office about CDN services? I wanted to get EdgeCast on the radar as a top performing global network and see if there might be interest in a free evaluation as a way to improve performance and reliability of your online content. Dear Alex, the OpenOffice web infrastructure (except the product downloads, served from the SourceForge network) is managed by the Apache Software Foundation Infrastructure team. You can contact them as explained in http://www.apache.org/dev/infra-contact (you fall probably in the last case, ask a question). Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Forums down (SQL error: Too many connections [1040])
Le 20/03/2013 17:01, FR web forum a écrit : If this is going to be a regular occurrence Sorry but the best thing to do is to fix this issue. Since a couple of days, I asked to check the MySQL max_connections parameter. Somebody did it? With each passing day, we lose users that search some help on other forums. +1. It has worked fine the 5 previous years. So there must be somthing that has been done on the hosting part. Hagar - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
question about word processor
I need to know if your word processor program paginates a manuscript. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What I miss a bit at the project
Hi Phil Am 20.03.13 16:19, schrieb Phillip Rhodes: IRC is great and all, and I'm all for having as many channels as people feel a need for. Just keep in mind that the ASF approach to projects is to ensure that decision making is done in public and very openly. I think the implication of that is that most discussion that leads directly to a decision, and definitely any actual decision making, should happen on the mailing list(s). I don't talk about using the IRC as a tool to have meetings to make decisions. I talk about daily discussion like questions from newbies and questions about the work. E.g: I don't understand what user XY means with comment Z in issue X, can samone help me? Or I don't know why this is in the Code, has sameone a answare? This has nothing to do with decision making neiter with a discoussion about decision making. For that i want to use IRC channels. But this works only if people participate. That's the way I've always understood it anyway. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. Phil On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Raphael Bircher r.birc...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi all At the old OpenOffice project we have had different IRC Channels. Same were more active then others, but we have had a load more activity then now. The fact, that not a load Apache Projects use IRC does not mean that we are not allowed to use IRC. We are not allowed to make dessisions at the IRC, because Apache has clear rouls for dessicion making. IRC has many avantage over a ML. You can discouss problemes life. You have often much faster a answare. And at same problems. work togeter is more afective and make more. I realy would like a more active IRC Channel. I propose #dev.openoffice.org at freenode as our main channel. I encourage you to jump in too. Greetings Raphael Greetings Raphael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Starting Introduction to Contributing to Apache OpenOffice Module
Hello, I'm Steve; from Visalia, California USA (Central California) I'm interested in documentation - completely a newbie. I might consider other areas to participate in as I learn more. I have an MS in Education Administration, and BA in Psych. I hope to participate in group projects, and contribute to the documentation projects. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: A question about existing practices
Top post. Since it's rather clear that there will never be any agreement about this, why doesn't PMC start a [Vote]? This topic is eating energy for nothing. There is no point arguing furthermore. If I understand correctly the problem (even if it was not exactly the initial point from Jörg), the basic question could be: Should the votes field be reset to 0 for all current bug reports? What it should possibly mean: Yes = votes are not representative of the users feedback and should not really be taken into account. No = votes are considered as representative of the users feedback, even old votes. The users community is watching you... Hagar Le 14/03/2013 09:56, Jörg Schmidt a écrit : Hello, By a request in the forum (http://de.openoffice.info/viewtopic.php?f=1t=61365), I get the information, the Issue #3959 was not implemented since 2002, although he has already received 355 votes. (Note: the implementation of the issues is not particularly important to me, I personally have not even voted for it.) I know it, earlier in OpenOffice, org, not practice was unfortunately votes cast for issues as direct, binding standard for their implementation to consider, But how is that today?. It is clear to me the AOO is created by volunteers who choose their detailed tasks themselves, but should we not also be a concern comply with the interests of the users of AOO? That would not only be of practical benefit to users, but would also enhance the reputation of AOO, as in the practice oriented project. Why the latter is important? I think because of the positive reputation of AOO in public grow the number of our supporters (sponsors, supporters, developers) will be. My view: We should not emulate LibreOffice because LibreOffice may be innovative, but public statements about quality and consistency of LibreOffice are devastating. For example, the chairman of the FroDeV spoke (a German association for the promotion of free software) this publicly recently plain text, see: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.discuss.german/13802 (Sorry only in German) My questions are: Are there any agreements which result to have the number of votes for an issue? Is there some agreement that a high number of votes to be reason, the implementation of Issues to be considered as a priority? What is your basic view on this? Greetings Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: question about word processor
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 2:58 PM, forpe...@lisco.com wrote: I need to know if your word processor program paginates a manuscript. There is an overview of the details here: http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Writer/Text_Formatting Regards, -Rob - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: A question about existing practices
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Hagar Delest hagar.del...@laposte.net wrote: Top post. Since it's rather clear that there will never be any agreement about this, why doesn't PMC start a [Vote]? This topic is eating energy for nothing. There is no point arguing furthermore. If I understand correctly the problem (even if it was not exactly the initial point from Jörg), the basic question could be: Should the votes field be reset to 0 for all current bug reports? What it should possibly mean: Yes = votes are not representative of the users feedback and should not really be taken into account. No = votes are considered as representative of the users feedback, even old votes. That would be rather silly, since no one has actually proposed setting the votes to zero. Look at the title of the thread again. Do you see any [PROPOSAL] there? Resetting the votes was just one option, out of 5 or 6, that was brought up during a discussion. My take away from the thread was that the preference is not to do anything, and in effect continue to ignore the votes. Whether they are reset or ignored is immaterial to me. I'll just work on better and more accurate ways of getting user feedback, that are not dependent on Bugzilla votes. -Rob The users community is watching you... Hagar Le 14/03/2013 09:56, Jörg Schmidt a écrit : Hello, By a request in the forum (http://de.openoffice.info/viewtopic.php?f=1t=61365), I get the information, the Issue #3959 was not implemented since 2002, although he has already received 355 votes. (Note: the implementation of the issues is not particularly important to me, I personally have not even voted for it.) I know it, earlier in OpenOffice, org, not practice was unfortunately votes cast for issues as direct, binding standard for their implementation to consider, But how is that today?. It is clear to me the AOO is created by volunteers who choose their detailed tasks themselves, but should we not also be a concern comply with the interests of the users of AOO? That would not only be of practical benefit to users, but would also enhance the reputation of AOO, as in the practice oriented project. Why the latter is important? I think because of the positive reputation of AOO in public grow the number of our supporters (sponsors, supporters, developers) will be. My view: We should not emulate LibreOffice because LibreOffice may be innovative, but public statements about quality and consistency of LibreOffice are devastating. For example, the chairman of the FroDeV spoke (a German association for the promotion of free software) this publicly recently plain text, see: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.discuss.german/13802 (Sorry only in German) My questions are: Are there any agreements which result to have the number of votes for an issue? Is there some agreement that a high number of votes to be reason, the implementation of Issues to be considered as a priority? What is your basic view on this? Greetings Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: A question about existing practices
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 5:03 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: My take away from the thread was that the preference is not to do anything, and in effect continue to ignore the votes. Whether they are reset or ignored is immaterial to me. I'll just work on better and more accurate ways of getting user feedback, that are not dependent on Bugzilla votes. Well, you can do both, sort of...showcase the item with the most votes, perhaps in a blog post, or a regular ML/forum feature, effectively asking: Is anyone still concerned about this issue? Is anyone prepared to take ownership of this issue? If the answer appears to be no to both, wipe out its votes and see if it creeps up again.Then proceed to the new most-voted item. Lather, rinse, repeat. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Forums down (SQL error: Too many connections [1040])
Hagar Delest wrote: It has worked fine the 5 previous years. So there must be somthing that has been done on the hosting part. Someone must have taken action here (imacat again, maybe?) since both yesterday and today we had outages and then the normal functioning was restored. I was probably just lucky, but I never saw the forum offline these days. Who has shell access to that virtual machine? Can someone check the MySQL max_connections parameter as asked on this list? As for the Nagios monitoring http://status.apache.org/ ; indeed the current checks are probably not accurate enough to ensure that the forums are reachable. They are checking that a URL is active (probably, from my reverse engineering, http://user.services.openoffice.org/ , which is the only one that returns HTTP code 301 as reported by Nagios) so no alerts are sent out if this redirect is active. If we give them a better URL, which should likely be something under http://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/ , and a patch to the Nagios config they can apply it. Remember that this service is officially unsupported, but Infra tries to be helpful nevertheless. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: A question about existing practices
Le 20/03/2013 22:03, Rob Weir a écrit : My take away from the thread was that the preference is not to do anything, and in effect continue to ignore the votes. Whether they are reset or ignored is immaterial to me. I'll just work on better and more accurate ways of getting user feedback, that are not dependent on Bugzilla votes. Thanks. That settles the matter then. Hagar - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: A question about existing practices
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Donald Whytock dwhyt...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 5:03 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: My take away from the thread was that the preference is not to do anything, and in effect continue to ignore the votes. Whether they are reset or ignored is immaterial to me. I'll just work on better and more accurate ways of getting user feedback, that are not dependent on Bugzilla votes. Well, you can do both, sort of...showcase the item with the most votes, perhaps in a blog post, or a regular ML/forum feature, effectively asking: Is anyone still concerned about this issue? Is anyone prepared to take ownership of this issue? Won't work. If you ask a group of people that question and say that the issues already received many votes, then they will replicate that result due to anchoring bias: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring So of course you'll see them say that the issues are still important. We're seeing that bias even today. But the problem is our most frequently-requested features today, namely iOS and Android support, are not even listed in Bugzilla as issues. So my approach will be to not use Bugzilla issues at all. -Rob If the answer appears to be no to both, wipe out its votes and see if it creeps up again.Then proceed to the new most-voted item. Lather, rinse, repeat. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: A question about existing practices
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Donald Whytock dwhyt...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 5:03 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: My take away from the thread was that the preference is not to do anything, and in effect continue to ignore the votes. Whether they are reset or ignored is immaterial to me. I'll just work on better and more accurate ways of getting user feedback, that are not dependent on Bugzilla votes. Well, you can do both, sort of...showcase the item with the most votes, perhaps in a blog post, or a regular ML/forum feature, effectively asking: Is anyone still concerned about this issue? Is anyone prepared to take ownership of this issue? Won't work. If you ask a group of people that question and say that the issues already received many votes, then they will replicate that result due to anchoring bias: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring So of course you'll see them say that the issues are still important. We're seeing that bias even today. But the problem is our most frequently-requested features today, namely iOS and Android support, are not even listed in Bugzilla as issues. So my approach will be to not use Bugzilla issues at all. Sorry, I should mention that I have no objections if you want to do something else. But IMHO if you do not reset the votes then it will take another decade for a RFE from today to have the same opportunity for votes as an issue from 2002. So going down that path is a exercise in futility as far as I can tell. Better to start from scratch with a well-designed survey. That's my preference and choice, but I don't want to force it on anyone else if you have a different approach that makes sense to you. -Rob -Rob If the answer appears to be no to both, wipe out its votes and see if it creeps up again.Then proceed to the new most-voted item. Lather, rinse, repeat. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Forums down (SQL error: Too many connections [1040])
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:01 PM, FR web forum ooofo...@free.fr wrote: If this is going to be a regular occurrence Sorry but the best thing to do is to fix this issue. Yes, that would be best. But this does not appear to be happening very quickly, so my suggestion is one way to keep the users informed while we wait for the best to happen. In this case we've had outages over 8 days. But even if this was just a 1 hour outage, having a place on our website where we let users know we're investigating is better than an error message. -Rob Since a couple of days, I asked to check the MySQL max_connections parameter. Somebody did it? With each passing day, we lose users that search some help on other forums. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Forums down (SQL error: Too many connections [1040])
In these situations it is best to get on irc #asfinfra and ask in general about it. Imacat might be there but there is usually at least one infra person on line. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 20, 2013, at 2:15 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Hagar Delest wrote: It has worked fine the 5 previous years. So there must be somthing that has been done on the hosting part. Someone must have taken action here (imacat again, maybe?) since both yesterday and today we had outages and then the normal functioning was restored. I was probably just lucky, but I never saw the forum offline these days. Who has shell access to that virtual machine? Can someone check the MySQL max_connections parameter as asked on this list? As for the Nagios monitoring http://status.apache.org/ ; indeed the current checks are probably not accurate enough to ensure that the forums are reachable. They are checking that a URL is active (probably, from my reverse engineering, http://user.services.openoffice.org/ , which is the only one that returns HTTP code 301 as reported by Nagios) so no alerts are sent out if this redirect is active. If we give them a better URL, which should likely be something under http://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/ , and a patch to the Nagios config they can apply it. Remember that this service is officially unsupported, but Infra tries to be helpful nevertheless. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Starting Introduction to Contributing to Apache OpenOffice Module
Steven Vollmer wrote: Hello, I'm Steve; from Visalia, California USA (Central California) I'm interested in documentation - completely a newbie. I might consider other areas to participate in as I learn more. I have an MS in Education Administration, and BA in Psych. I hope to participate in group projects, and contribute to the documentation projects. Greetings Steve and welcome to Apache OpenOffice. As you are interested in documentation I suggest that you check out the documentation intro at http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/intro-doc.html. Also subscribe to the documentation mailing list at mailto:doc-subscr...@openoffice.apache.org. You will receive a reply with instructions to verify your e-mail address. Follow the instructions and you will receive a second e-mail confirming your subscription. Th doc list is where we discuss the nuts and bolts of the documentation. Regards Keith N. McKenna - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
