Re: [FORGED] Re: [FORGED] Re: Website owner survey data on identity, browser UIs, and the EV UI

2019-10-02 Thread Peter Gutmann via dev-security-policy
Ronald Crane via dev-security-policy writes: >Please cite the best study you know about on this topic (BTW, I am *not* >snidely >implying that there isn't one). Sure, gimme a day or two since I'm away at the moment. Alternatively, there's been such a vast amount of work done on this that a

RE: Next Root Store Policy Update

2019-10-02 Thread Jeremy Rowley via dev-security-policy
One suggestion on incident reports is to define "regularly update" as some period of time as non-responses can result in additional incident reports. Maybe something along the lines of "the greater of every 7 days, the time period specified in the next update field by Mozilla, or the time

RE: Policy 2.7 Proposal: Require EKUs in End-Entity Certificates

2019-10-02 Thread Jeremy Rowley via dev-security-policy
I'm surprised any CA has heartburn over the EKU changes. Microsoft has required them in end entity certificates for quite some time. From the MS policy: "Effective February 1, 2017, all end-entity certificates must contain the EKU for the purpose that the CA issued the certificate to the

Re: Policy 2.7 Proposal: Clarify Section 5.1 ECDSA Curve-Hash Requirements

2019-10-02 Thread Wayne Thayer via dev-security-policy
Thank you Ryan. Brian reviewed these changes back in May, so I've gone ahead and accepted them for the 2.7 policy update: https://github.com/mozilla/pkipolicy/commit/5657ecf650d70fd3c6ca5062bee360fd83da9d27 I'll consider this issue resolved unless there are further comments. - Wayne On Fri, May

Updated website owner survey data on identity, browser UIs, and the EV UI

2019-10-02 Thread Kirk Hall via dev-security-policy
On September 21, I sent a message to the Mozilla community with the results of a survey of all of Entrust Datacard’s customers (both those who use EV certificates, and those who don’t) concerning what they think about website identity in browsers, browser UIs in general, and EV browser UIs in

Re: [FORGED] Re: Website owner survey data on identity, browser UIs, and the EV UI

2019-10-02 Thread Ronald Crane via dev-security-policy
On 10/2/2019 3:27 PM, Peter Gutmann wrote: Ronald Crane via dev-security-policy writes: "Virtually impossible"? "Anyone"? Really? Those are big claims that need real data. How many references to research papers would you like? Would a dozen do, or do you want two dozen? One well-done

Re: Website owner survey data on identity, browser UIs, and the EV UI

2019-10-02 Thread Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy
> On Oct 2, 2019, at 3:41 PM, Ronald Crane via dev-security-policy > wrote: > > On 10/2/2019 3:00 PM, Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy wrote: >> On Oct 2, 2019, at 2:52 PM, Ronald Crane via dev-security-policy >> wrote: > [snip] >>> Some other changes that might help reduce phishing are:

Re: [FORGED] Re: Website owner survey data on identity, browser UIs, and the EV UI

2019-10-02 Thread Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy
> On Oct 2, 2019, at 3:27 PM, Peter Gutmann via dev-security-policy > wrote: > > Ronald Crane via dev-security-policy > writes: > >> "Virtually impossible"? "Anyone"? Really? Those are big claims that need real >> data. > > How many references to research papers would you like? Would a

Re: Website owner survey data on identity, browser UIs, and the EV UI

2019-10-02 Thread Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy
> On Oct 2, 2019, at 3:20 PM, Kurt Roeckx wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 02, 2019 at 03:17:31PM -0700, Paul Walsh wrote: In separate research, CAs have shown data to demonstrate that website owners want to have their identity verified. >>> >>> They have not. In fact, I would say that most

Re: Website owner survey data on identity, browser UIs, and the EV UI

2019-10-02 Thread Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy
> On Oct 2, 2019, at 3:18 PM, Ronald Crane via dev-security-policy > wrote: > > > On 10/2/2019 2:47 PM, Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy wrote: >> On Oct 2, 2019, at 1:16 PM, Ronald Crane via dev-security-policy >> wrote: >>> On 10/1/2019 6:56 PM, Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy wrote:

Re: Website owner survey data on identity, browser UIs, and the EV UI

2019-10-02 Thread Kurt Roeckx via dev-security-policy
On Wed, Oct 02, 2019 at 03:17:31PM -0700, Paul Walsh wrote: > >> In separate research, CAs have shown data to demonstrate that website > >> owners want to have their identity verified. > > > > They have not. In fact, I would say that most website owners are perfectly > > happy with DV

Re: Website owner survey data on identity, browser UIs, and the EV UI

2019-10-02 Thread Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy
> On Oct 2, 2019, at 3:11 PM, Kurt Roeckx wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 02, 2019 at 02:48:56PM -0700, Paul Walsh wrote: >> On Oct 2, 2019, at 12:52 AM, Kurt Roeckx via dev-security-policy >> wrote: >>> >>> On 2019-10-02 09:20, Kurt Roeckx wrote: On 2019-10-02 02:39, Paul Walsh wrote: >

Re: Next Root Store Policy Update

2019-10-02 Thread Wayne Thayer via dev-security-policy
Over the past 3 months, a number of other projects distracted me from this work. Now I'd like to focus on finishing these updates to our Root Store policy. There are roughly 6 issues remaining to be discussed, and I will, as always, greatly appreciate everyone's input on them. I'll be sending out

Re: Website owner survey data on identity, browser UIs, and the EV UI

2019-10-02 Thread Ronald Crane via dev-security-policy
On 10/2/2019 2:47 PM, Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy wrote: On Oct 2, 2019, at 1:16 PM, Ronald Crane via dev-security-policy wrote: On 10/1/2019 6:56 PM, Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy wrote: New tools such as Modlishka now automate phishing attacks, making it virtually impossible

Re: Website owner survey data on identity, browser UIs, and the EV UI

2019-10-02 Thread Kurt Roeckx via dev-security-policy
On Wed, Oct 02, 2019 at 02:48:56PM -0700, Paul Walsh wrote: > On Oct 2, 2019, at 12:52 AM, Kurt Roeckx via dev-security-policy > wrote: > > > > On 2019-10-02 09:20, Kurt Roeckx wrote: > >> On 2019-10-02 02:39, Paul Walsh wrote: > >>> > >>> According to Ellis, the goal for a customer survey is

Re: Website owner survey data on identity, browser UIs, and the EV UI

2019-10-02 Thread Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy
On Oct 2, 2019, at 2:52 PM, Ronald Crane via dev-security-policy wrote: > > On 10/2/2019 1:16 PM, Ronald Crane via dev-security-policy wrote: >> On 10/1/2019 6:56 PM, Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy wrote: >>> New tools such as Modlishka now automate phishing attacks, making it >>>

Re: Website owner survey data on identity, browser UIs, and the EV UI

2019-10-02 Thread Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy
On Oct 2, 2019, at 12:52 AM, Kurt Roeckx via dev-security-policy wrote: > > On 2019-10-02 09:20, Kurt Roeckx wrote: >> On 2019-10-02 02:39, Paul Walsh wrote: >>> >>> According to Ellis, the goal for a customer survey is to get feedback from >>> people who had recently experienced "real usage"

Re: Website owner survey data on identity, browser UIs, and the EV UI

2019-10-02 Thread Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy
On Oct 2, 2019, at 1:16 PM, Ronald Crane via dev-security-policy wrote: > > On 10/1/2019 6:56 PM, Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy wrote: >> New tools such as Modlishka now automate phishing attacks, making it >> virtually impossible for any browser or security solution to detect -   >>

Re: Website owner survey data on identity, browser UIs, and the EV UI

2019-10-02 Thread Ronald Crane via dev-security-policy
On 10/1/2019 6:56 PM, Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy wrote: New tools such as Modlishka now automate phishing attacks, making it virtually impossible for any browser or security solution to detect -  bypassing 2FA. Google has admitted that it’s unable to detect these phishing scams as they

Re: DigiCert OCSP services returns 1 byte

2019-10-02 Thread Rob Stradling via dev-security-policy
On 02/10/2019 00:51, Wayne Thayer wrote: > On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 3:34 AM Rob Stradling wrote: > > I propose that you update [4] to say that Mozilla won't treat > non-compliance with [4] as an "incident" whilst it remains the case > that the BRs are inconsistent with [4]. > > I could

Re: Website owner survey data on identity, browser UIs, and the EV UI

2019-10-02 Thread Kurt Roeckx via dev-security-policy
On 2019-10-02 09:20, Kurt Roeckx wrote: On 2019-10-02 02:39, Paul Walsh wrote: According to Ellis, the goal for a customer survey is to get feedback from people who had recently experienced "real usage" of the product. The key question in the survey for these people according to Ellis, is:

Re: Website owner survey data on identity, browser UIs, and the EV UI

2019-10-02 Thread Kurt Roeckx via dev-security-policy
On 2019-10-02 02:39, Paul Walsh wrote: According to Ellis, the goal for a customer survey is to get feedback from people who had recently experienced "real usage" of the product. The key question in the survey for these people according to Ellis, is: "How would you feel if you could no