Re: jumpy cursor problem and sugar issue

2008-04-28 Thread Bryan Berry
hey guys, thanks to all who have replied to my issue w/ the jumpy cursor. I haven't been able to test out the responses I have gotten because I have been sick in bed for the last couple days. Will reply once I am coherent enough to read the e-mails. On Mon, 2008-04-28 at 11:39 +0200, Bernie Innoce

Re: Ad-hoc Networking

2008-04-28 Thread Luis Carlos Cobo
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 12:48 PM, Aaron Kaplan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > how much effort would it be to port it to mac80211? I assume you mean "using mac80211 in the XO". It is a significant effort requiring driver and firmware changes, as the current card is 'fullmac' and mac80211 only works

Re: compiled kernel

2008-04-28 Thread Asheesh Laroia
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008, wahida mansouri wrote: > Hello ; > I want to know how can I copy a compiled kernel > to an other pc and where can I find all necessary files and repositoy. Given the level of the technical questions you're asking, you should probably ask on the community-support list. -- As

Re: Synchronizing xs-0.3 and xo-??? --- backups

2008-04-28 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 2:14 AM, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >- Q: Does it make sense to always maintain the CJSON-formatted > > metadata anyway? (This would specially make sense if some of the DS > > corruption reports being discussed are tracked down to Xapian.) > > Extrac

Re: Synchronizing xs-0.3 and xo-??? --- backups

2008-04-28 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:14 AM, Eben Eliason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 12:58 PM, Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 10:33:13AM -0400, Eben Eliason wrote: > > > Well, I guess I need to know a bit more about the technical details > >

Re: Pen Tablet support and a usability study

2008-04-28 Thread Bert Freudenberg
On 13.04.2008, at 02:56, Patrick Dubroy wrote: > For the last couple months, I've been working on the higher-level > support for the XO Pen Tablet (for more information, see here: > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Pen_Tablet_Support). > > If anyone's interested, I've got a couple of activities available

DOSEMU Activity

2008-04-28 Thread Benjamin M. Schwartz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 To muddy the waters further, I present http://dev.laptop.org/~bemasc/DOSEdit-1.xo Whereas DOSConsole is an activity that uses a dos console to demonstrate a framework for Wine-based activities, DOSEdit is an activity that uses DOS Edit.exe to demonst

Re: Fedora activities?

2008-04-28 Thread Dennis Gilmore
On Monday 28 April 2008, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > On 28.04.2008, at 23:46, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > > On Monday 28 April 2008, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > >> On 26.04.2008, at 17:06, Kim Quirk wrote: > >>> Dennis Gilmore reports that we can now submit activities for review. > >>> Fedora 9 has working

Re: Fedora activities?

2008-04-28 Thread Bert Freudenberg
On 28.04.2008, at 23:46, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > On Monday 28 April 2008, Bert Freudenberg wrote: >> On 26.04.2008, at 17:06, Kim Quirk wrote: >>> Dennis Gilmore reports that we can now submit activities for review. >>> Fedora 9 has working support in GDM/KDM to log into sugar. Draft >>> guideli

Re: Fedora activities?

2008-04-28 Thread Dennis Gilmore
On Monday 28 April 2008, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > On 26.04.2008, at 17:06, Kim Quirk wrote: > > Dennis Gilmore reports that we can now submit activities for review. > > Fedora 9 has working support in GDM/KDM to log into sugar. Draft > > guidelines can be found here: > > http://fedoraproject.org/

Re: Activation problems

2008-04-28 Thread Walter Bender
If you insert the key after the machine boots, then it shouldn't have been a problem having a /boot directory. A possible explanation of the inconsistent behavior could be when in the boot process you insert the key. -walter On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 3:07 PM, John Watlington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wro

Re: Fedora activities?

2008-04-28 Thread Martin Dengler
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 11:07:17PM +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > On 26.04.2008, at 17:06, Kim Quirk wrote: > > > Dennis Gilmore reports that we can now submit activities for review. > > Fedora 9 has working support in GDM/KDM to log into sugar. Draft > > guidelines can be found here: > >

Re: 15 computer science collegians looking for a project

2008-04-28 Thread Walter Bender
Any interest in the themes/topics Tomeu outlined in his email about Sugar performance? Lots of interesting things to explore that would be of real value to the project. -walter On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Patrick Jahenr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi there, > > We are a group of 15 collegi

Fedora activities?

2008-04-28 Thread Bert Freudenberg
On 26.04.2008, at 17:06, Kim Quirk wrote: > Dennis Gilmore reports that we can now submit activities for review. > Fedora 9 has working support in GDM/KDM to log into sugar. Draft > guidelines can be found here: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DennisGilmore/SugarActivityGuidelines > . The

Re: [sugar] Sugar\Windows won't ship

2008-04-28 Thread Carol Lerche
I assume many people may already have seen this articleand associated video, but those who have not definitely should. It greatly enhanced my appreciation of the design goals of sugar, and in my opinion shoul

Re: OLE Nepal distribution pics

2008-04-28 Thread Samuel Klein
Ties, this is great! I hope captions are coming. I like this one. http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2448094889/in/set-72157604771101410/ It would be nice to see photos taken by the students, also. SJ On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 8:30 AM, Ties Stuij <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Last

Re: Ad-hoc Networking

2008-04-28 Thread Aaron Kaplan
how much effort would it be to port it to mac80211? > > 12 > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: Ad-hoc Networking

2008-04-28 Thread Luis Carlos Cobo
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Aaron Kaplan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ok, sounds nice. What is the maximum number of nodes that you tested with > it so far? 12 -- Luis Carlos Cobo Rus GnuPG ID: 44019B60 cozybit Inc. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@

Re: typing tutor activity

2008-04-28 Thread Albert Cahalan
Kate Scheppke writes: > I'm a computer science student, one of many applicants to the Google > Summer of Code / OLPC project who came up just a bit shy of > acceptance. Nonetheless, I plan to move ahead with working on my > proposed project, a typing tutor. My mentor on this project is Wade > Br

Re: Ad-hoc Networking

2008-04-28 Thread Aaron Kaplan
>> >> what is the current status on that actually? > > It provides all the basic stuff (peer link establishment, HWMP), > follows > latest 802.11s draft, and can be used with zd1211rw and b43 > drivers. It > is also very easy to add support for other mac80211 drivers. > > The major missing pie

Re: Design for XO .. and how to acquire one?

2008-04-28 Thread Charles Merriam
Hello, You may want to start development with one of the emulators. See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Developers/Setup for a description. While OLPC does claim to have laptops on occasion for developers, most people end up purchasing them off of the EBay auction sight. Have a good day, Charles Mer

Journal Suggestion

2008-04-28 Thread James Simmons
I, too have suggestions for the Journal: 1). The Journal should show, as a percentage perhaps, how much disk space is free in the Journal, or in whatever removeable media (SD card, Thumb drive) the user is currently looking at. It should give some kind of warning cue when the disk space is da

Re: Activation problems

2008-04-28 Thread John Watlington
I owe everyone a beer/coffee when I get back to 1CC for troubling you with my senility. wad On Apr 28, 2008, at 3:07 PM, John Watlington wrote: > RTFM. > > It looks like most of the problem was not deleting the boot > directory on the key. Why this worked for 3 of five laptops, > but not these

Re: Activation problems

2008-04-28 Thread John Watlington
RTFM. It looks like most of the problem was not deleting the boot directory on the key. Why this worked for 3 of five laptops, but not these last two, I don't know... On Apr 28, 2008, at 3:02 PM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 2:53 PM, John Watlington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >

Re: Activation problems

2008-04-28 Thread C. Scott Ananian
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 2:53 PM, John Watlington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > When I reboot (after activating), it reports that the lease in > nand:\security\lease.sig is expired. > Then it finds valid signatures for the OS and proceeds. That's very interesting. Once you have a dev key, can you

Re: Activation problems

2008-04-28 Thread John Watlington
On Apr 28, 2008, at 2:41 PM, Mitch Bradley wrote: > C. Scott Ananian wrote: >> On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 2:16 PM, John Watlington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> You can try to search the SN of the laptops you're trying to activate in >>> the lease.sig file to see if they're the

Re: Activation problems

2008-04-28 Thread John Watlington
On Apr 28, 2008, at 2:37 PM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 2:16 PM, John Watlington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >>> You can try to search the SN of the laptops you're trying to >>> activate in >> the lease.sig file to see if they're there... >>> >> >> The activation leas

Re: Ad-hoc Networking

2008-04-28 Thread Luis Carlos Cobo
On Sun, 2008-04-27 at 22:30 +0200, Aaron Kaplan wrote: > On Apr 27, 2008, at 8:53 PM, Robert Withrow wrote: > > > Aaron Kaplan wrote: > >> there *are* open source layer 2 and layer 3 mesh software > >> solutions out there. > >> > > > > Not to forget Open80211S.org (http://www.open80211s.org/). >

Re: Activation problems

2008-04-28 Thread C. Scott Ananian
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 2:16 PM, John Watlington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You can try to search the SN of the laptops you're trying to activate in > the lease.sig file to see if they're there... > > > > The activation leases in the lease.sig file seem fine. And I'm using > a collector key

Re: Activation problems

2008-04-28 Thread Richard A. Smith
John Watlington wrote: >> They boot up and don't give any error messages. They just start >> flashing the SD, USB, and finally WiFi icons. When activating, >> they don't give any error message, they just say "Powering off in 10 >> seconds". If you hold the check key during boot it shows some

[no subject]

2008-04-28 Thread John Watlington
They are running Q2D14, and their brethren (same box) are running 703, so there is a good chance that this is a new 703 based bug. wad On Apr 28, 2008, at 2:13 PM, Emiliano Pastorino wrote: > Are you using a pendrive with the leases to activate the laptops? > Or are you trying wireless? Which

Re: Activation problems

2008-04-28 Thread John Watlington
On Apr 28, 2008, at 2:13 PM, Emiliano Pastorino wrote: > Are you using a pendrive with the leases to activate the laptops? Yes. > Or are you trying wireless? Which build are you using? I don't know what build is on the laptops, probably 656. > You can try to search the SN of the laptops you'r

Re: Activation problems

2008-04-28 Thread Emiliano Pastorino
Are you using a pendrive with the leases to activate the laptops? Or are you trying wireless? Which build are you using? You can try to search the SN of the laptops you're trying to activate in the lease.sig file to see if they're there... Emiliano On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 3:04 PM, John Watlington

Re: space on device

2008-04-28 Thread Asheesh Laroia
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008, wahida mansouri wrote: > Hi ; > I want to know how can I resolve the problem of lack space on device > because when compiling the kernel of my XO. I get this error: > vmlinux error: no space on device. Are you compiling that kernel on an XO? Try doing the compile in an emul

Activation problems

2008-04-28 Thread John Watlington
I have two laptops here in Peru that refuse to activate. I have generated leases for (increasingly) 7 days, 3000 days, and 7999 days, and none work. I activated three other laptops using the same key/activation request and they work fine. They boot up and don't give any error messages. They

Re: [sugar] Sugar\Windows won't ship

2008-04-28 Thread C. Scott Ananian
Incidentally, this whole topic of "getting Sugar to play nicely with Linux" was the *exact* topic of my talk at FISL this year. The slides can be downloaded from http://download.laptop.org/content/conf/20080417-fisl08/cscott/ ; I'm under impression that the actual video will be available at some p

15 computer science collegians looking for a project

2008-04-28 Thread Patrick Jahenr
Hi there, We are a group of 15 collegians, studying 'Applied Computer Science' at the University of Applied Sciences in Iserlohn (Germany) and we are looking for a project for the OLPC within the scope of our subject "Computer-Networks". Our professor (Prof. Martin Hühne) let us choose our own

Re: typing tutor activity

2008-04-28 Thread Robert Myers
Kate, > If you have any comments, suggestions, or feedback on this project > please let me know. It's funny that you bring the up, because a couple of things came together to make me think about the issue also. There is a commercial dedicated typing trainer available "The Writer" http://www.wr

Re: Synchronizing xs-0.3 and xo-??? --- backups

2008-04-28 Thread Eben Eliason
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 12:58 PM, Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 10:33:13AM -0400, Eben Eliason wrote: > > Well, I guess I need to know a bit more about the technical details > > that will be in play in this circumstance. Since we don't have unique > > userna

Re: boot problem

2008-04-28 Thread Asheesh Laroia
On Fri, 25 Apr 2008, Daly Ikbel wrote: > I try to copy a repositery of 258Mb. How did you try to copy it? Can you explain the exact steps you took? What do you mena repositery? (But see below - answer this on the community-support email list.) > I get an error of lack of space. > while reboo

Re: Synchronizing xs-0.3 and xo-??? --- backups

2008-04-28 Thread Michael Stone
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 10:33:13AM -0400, Eben Eliason wrote: > Well, I guess I need to know a bit more about the technical details > that will be in play in this circumstance. Since we don't have unique > usernames or passwords, the only identifier for the individual and her > data is her key, ri

journal suggestion

2008-04-28 Thread Jacob Haddon
Hello, First, forgive the suggestion if it is thought up, or implemented or just plain a bad idea. I am still running 652 so i can be of help to other G1G1 users. One thing that strikes me is multiple journal entires. for example, if i am reading a book, each time I open the book, there will

Re: [sugar] Sugar\Windows won't ship

2008-04-28 Thread Marco Pesenti Gritti
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 4:55 PM, Jim Gettys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Note that this work (should be) the same, no matter what window manager > we end up using. Window managers have been pretty interchangeable > throughout X's history. That's what the ICCCM/EWMH's documents are all > about.

Re: typing tutor activity

2008-04-28 Thread Frederick Grose
Hi Kate, Please consider the ergonomic and safety aspects of this learning activity. I remember well how my piano teacher provided protective oversight by watching my activities even during a short, 30-minute, weekly lesson. She had me pause and rest for a couple of minutes, after about 15 minutes

Re: [sugar] Sugar\Windows won't ship

2008-04-28 Thread Marco Pesenti Gritti
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 4:55 PM, Jim Gettys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I suspect we're using dbus in some places where we should just be using > the normal ICCCM/EWMH conventions. Activities/applications can run fine without DBus right now. The main problem are a couple of non standard X prope

Re: [sugar] Sugar\Windows won't ship

2008-04-28 Thread Jim Gettys
On Mon, 2008-04-28 at 16:47 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If someone would like to go ahead and try replacing matchbox with > > metacity, would be great ;) > > And I'd be happy to help out whoever attempts it bo

Re: [sugar] Sugar\Windows won't ship

2008-04-28 Thread Jim Gettys
Note I understand that metacity can be configured to use a dbus/gconf version, rather than bringing in the dread CORBA/bonobo dependencies we've worked so hard to avoid. So don't let ldd mislead you that it isn't worth a try; it is. So Metacity is clearly one of the contenders. This wasn't an op

Re: [sugar] Sugar\Windows won't ship

2008-04-28 Thread Marco Pesenti Gritti
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If someone would like to go ahead and try replacing matchbox with > metacity, would be great ;) And I'd be happy to help out whoever attempts it both on the Sugar and on the wm/X side... :) Marco

Re: Synchronizing xs-0.3 and xo-??? --- backups

2008-04-28 Thread Eben Eliason
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 6:18 AM, Martin Langhoff > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > - Initial HTTP check for protocol and XS availability stays. We drop > > the 'nonce' value. > > - Q: Any reason for this being

Re: [sugar] Sugar\Windows won't ship

2008-04-28 Thread Tomeu Vizoso
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Jim Gettys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mon, 2008-04-28 at 10:06 -0400, Walter Bender wrote: > > I must have missed the post you refer to. It has never been the > > position of the core Sugar team--that I am aware of--to preclude the > > running of standard

Re: [sugar] Sugar\Windows won't ship

2008-04-28 Thread Jim Gettys
On Mon, 2008-04-28 at 10:06 -0400, Walter Bender wrote: > I must have missed the post you refer to. It has never been the > position of the core Sugar team--that I am aware of--to preclude the > running of standard Linux apps. We even went so far as to hire a > contractor to look at various ways t

Re: Synchronizing xs-0.3 and xo-??? --- backups

2008-04-28 Thread Tomeu Vizoso
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 6:18 AM, Martin Langhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > - Initial HTTP check for protocol and XS availability stays. We drop > the 'nonce' value. > - Q: Any reason for this being REST vs XML-RPC for the registration service? > > - Preparations are simpler >- No ne

Re: Auto backlight management?

2008-04-28 Thread Gerard J. Cerchio
Wade Brainerd wrote: > The XO is already the second longest lasting electronic writing device > I regularly carry - the iPhone currently wins, but is slower to type > on and a pain to retrieve data from. > I still use my Poqet PC occasionally. 100 hours on a single set of 2 AA batteries it has

Re: [sugar] Sugar\Windows won't ship

2008-04-28 Thread Walter Bender
I must have missed the post you refer to. It has never been the position of the core Sugar team--that I am aware of--to preclude the running of standard Linux apps. We even went so far as to hire a contractor to look at various ways to facilitate the running of standard X apps last summer---althoug

Re: new kernel in XO

2008-04-28 Thread Martin Dengler
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 02:52:21PM +0200, Daly Ikbel wrote: > Hello, > > I want to compile and configure a new kernel on my XO. Have you considered http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Rebuilding_OLPC_kernel ? > Best Regards, > Ikbel Martin pgpnw8RHg0fKf.pgp Description: PGP signature _

new kernel in XO

2008-04-28 Thread Daly Ikbel
Hello, I want to compile and configure a new kernel on my XO. Because of the limited storage space in XO, I had many problems. So I think to compile and configure the new kernel in a my laptop (normal PC with Fedora) and to take only the executable to run the kernel on XO. But I don't know the pr

OLE Nepal distribution pics

2008-04-28 Thread Ties Stuij
Last Friday we distributed XO's to our (pre-) pilot schools. Remarkably we didn't yet post anything to our blog about it, but I know you all are much more interested in the piccies. The coolest ones i feel are the ones of the exited and concentrated girls prodding the XO's for the first time at the

compiled kernel

2008-04-28 Thread wahida mansouri
Hello ; I want to know how can I copy a compiled kernel to an other pc and where can I find all necessary files and repositoy. Regards. __ Do You Yahoo!? En finir avec le spam? Yahoo! Mail vous offre la meilleure protection possible contre les me

Re: [sugar] Sugar\Windows won't ship

2008-04-28 Thread Marco Pesenti Gritti
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 9:59 AM, John Gilmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'll say that the impression that I have received as an outsider is that > > the people working on Sugar have not at all been interested in > > compatibility with normal linux software. > > It's more accurate to say tha

Re: jumpy cursor problem and sugar issue

2008-04-28 Thread Bernie Innocenti
Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > We plan to work on this soon. The plan is to have a delay since the > mouse enters in the corner and before the frame is brought up. This > delay will be configurable with an slide in the control panel. That seems like a great idea to improve usability. -- \___/ _| o

Re: [sugar] Sugar\Windows won't ship

2008-04-28 Thread Marco Pesenti Gritti
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 9:59 AM, John Gilmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Somebody who implemented Sugar in the early days clearly didn't > understand the X11 networked graphics model -- or didn't mind breaking > it for expediency -- but they only broke it in small ways, which are > pretty eas

Re: typing tutor activity

2008-04-28 Thread Tomeu Vizoso
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 6:49 AM, Kate Scheppke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello! > > I'm a computer science student, one of many applicants to the Google > Summer of Code / OLPC project who came up just a bit shy of > acceptance. Nonetheless, I plan to move ahead with working on my > propose

Re: [sugar] Sugar\Windows won't ship

2008-04-28 Thread Marco Pesenti Gritti
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 7:39 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > in fact there was a post within the last week claiming that it would be a > bad idea to make sugar able to use unmodified linux software becouse that > would mean that the educational software and activities being written for > suga

Re: jumpy cursor problem and sugar issue

2008-04-28 Thread Tomeu Vizoso
On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Bryan Berry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > thanks Carol, this instruction for disabling the corner sensitivity is > extremely useful! I may use it in the custom build I roll out, some 3-4 > months from now. We plan to work on this soon. The plan is to have a delay

Re: [sugar] Sugar\Windows won't ship

2008-04-28 Thread Tomeu Vizoso
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 9:59 AM, John Gilmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'll say that the impression that I have received as an outsider is that > > the people working on Sugar have not at all been interested in > > compatibility with normal linux software. > > It's more accurate to say tha

space on device

2008-04-28 Thread wahida mansouri
Hi ; I want to know how can I resolve the problem of lack space on device because when compiling the kernel of my XO. I get this error: vmlinux error: no space on device. Regards. __ Do You Yahoo!? En finir avec le spam? Yahoo! Mail vous offre la

Re: [sugar] Sugar\Windows won't ship

2008-04-28 Thread John Gilmore
> I'll say that the impression that I have received as an outsider is that > the people working on Sugar have not at all been interested in > compatibility with normal linux software. It's more accurate to say that while they are somewhat interested in that as an abstract idea, they are much mor

Re: typing tutor activity

2008-04-28 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Kate Scheppke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello! > > I'm a computer science student, one of many applicants to the Google > Summer of Code / OLPC project who came up just a bit shy of > acceptance. Nonetheless, I plan to move ahead with working on my > propose