Re: For review: NAND out of space patch.

[pgf]

chris wrote:
 > Hi,
 > 
 >> I'll go on record repeating the comments made earlier. deleting the
 >> students largest file is probably deleting their most important
 >> work.
 > 
 > Of course, it should be only a last resort; I tried to make that clear.
 > I hope that in 8.2 we'll fix the problem in general, in a way that
 > prompts for which files to delete.  This patch would be an interim
 > workaround for deployments to ameliorate the current problem of
 > non-booting laptops, and a failsafe for any edgecases we miss in 8.2.

it sure feels as if adding a time component to the "nuking"
algorithm would help (e.g. something based on "du -s $(ls -rtd PATH/*)"),
but i guess it wouldn't, really.  can we at least nuke some
obvious big (or otherwise useless-in-a-deployment) installed
files first?  that's only a one-time thing, but it's arguably
better than losing "real" data.

ben wrote:
 > This hackish approach is meant only as a patch to existing systems running
 > old builds.  Uruguay has a comprehensive system for deploying such patches
 > quickly.  Based on our new understanding of the urgency of the full NAND

is it really true that uruguay can deploy patches quickly?  then
surely we can come up with a simple cron-based script that puts a
large-font warning in an xterm when diskspace is low?  it would
(obviously) be ugly, but still better than a failed boot and loss
of data.  if the diskspace disappears all at once, due to downloads
or something, then this won't help, but i'll bet we could choose
a threshold that would be successful pretty often.  we might even
cause it to run more often when browse or record is running.

paul
=-
 paul fox, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: For review: NAND out of space patch.

[Benjamin M. Schwartz]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
| I'll go on record repeating the comments made earlier. deleting the
| students largest file is probably deleting their most important work.
| deleting anything the student made should be a last resort (and should
| probably give the student the option of what to delete in the process).

I don't think anyone really disagrees with you.  The problem here is a
matter of interim patches and unforeseen conditions.

The reports from Uruguay indicate that thousands of laptops are becoming
suddenly, inexplicably unbootable, and being sent in for reflash, after
which they are perfectly fine.  The leading theory is that most of these
failures are caused by filling up the datastore, which prevents the
machine from booting.

If a machine fills up, becomes unbootable, and is sent to a repair center
for reflash, then the student loses everything.  This script causes
unpredictable, unannounced data loss, but it is still better than losing
_all_ work, and all access to your XO.

This hackish approach is meant only as a patch to existing systems running
old builds.  Uruguay has a comprehensive system for deploying such patches
quickly.  Based on our new understanding of the urgency of the full NAND
problem, proper handling of this scenario has been elevated to top
priority for the next release (8.2).  I expect that build to include a
much cleaner, user-driven approach to freeing up space, not this sort of
silent automatic erasure.
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Re: For review: NAND out of space patch.

[Chris Ball]

Hi,

   > I'll go on record repeating the comments made earlier. deleting the
   > students largest file is probably deleting their most important
   > work.

Of course, it should be only a last resort; I tried to make that clear.
I hope that in 8.2 we'll fix the problem in general, in a way that
prompts for which files to delete.  This patch would be an interim
workaround for deployments to ameliorate the current problem of
non-booting laptops, and a failsafe for any edgecases we miss in 8.2.

   > there are probably things in the journal that can be nuked, becouse
   > they can either be re-created (any cached web pages), or are just a
   > record of what was done (terminal activities for example), but
   > don't delete anything of the students without getting confirmation
   > of what to delete first.

As long as Sugar fails to boot with disk full, I don't know how I
can search the datastore in that way.  We don't have the full query
interface available from the initrd.

- Chris.
-- 
Chris Ball   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: For review: NAND out of space patch.

[david]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Chris Ball wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Here's a small Python script that acts as a final fail-safe in the event
> that the datastore is full and we can't boot because of it, by deleting
> datastore files largest-first until we cross a threshold of how much
> free space is "enough".  It could be incorporated into the Python init
> process.  (See #7591 for more detail.)
>
> Caveats:
>   * Deleting a file from the datastore doesn't delete its entry in the
> index.  Resuming a Journal entry with no corresponding file usually
> produces a blank document in the activity being resumed.
>   * This doesn't try anything outside of the datastore, such as the
> excellent suggestion of identifying unnecessary large files in the
> build that could be deleted.  We should of course try that first.
>
> Please review.

I'll go on record repeating the comments made earlier. deleting the 
students largest file is probably deleting their most important work. 
deleting anything the student made should be a last resort (and should 
probably give the student the option of what to delete in the process).

think how devestating it will be to kids to have the term paper they've 
worked on for weeks/months disappear on thembecouse they took one to many 
snapshots, or they played one to many games and triggered the largest 
object getting deleted with no warning.

there are probably things in the journal that can be nuked, becouse they 
can either be re-created (any cached web pages), or are just a record of 
what was done (terminal activities for example), but don't delete anything 
of the students without getting confirmation of what to delete first.

David Lang
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For review: NAND out of space patch.

[Chris Ball]

Hi,

Here's a small Python script that acts as a final fail-safe in the event
that the datastore is full and we can't boot because of it, by deleting
datastore files largest-first until we cross a threshold of how much
free space is "enough".  It could be incorporated into the Python init
process.  (See #7591 for more detail.)

Caveats:
   * Deleting a file from the datastore doesn't delete its entry in the
 index.  Resuming a Journal entry with no corresponding file usually
 produces a blank document in the activity being resumed.
   * This doesn't try anything outside of the datastore, such as the
 excellent suggestion of identifying unnecessary large files in the
 build that could be deleted.  We should of course try that first.

Please review.

- Chris.

#!/usr/bin/env python
#
# failsafe.py: If the NAND doesn't have enough free space, delete datastore 
objects 
#  until it does.  This doesn't modify the datastore's index.
# Author:  Chris Ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

import os, sys, statvfs, subprocess

THRESHOLD = 1024 * 50 # 50MB
PATH = "/home/olpc/.sugar/default/datastore/store/*-*"

def main():
# First, check to see whether we have enough free space.
if find_freespace() < THRESHOLD:
print "Not enough disk space."
lines = os.popen("du -s %s" % PATH).readlines()
filesizes = [line.split('\t') for line in lines]
for file in filesizes:
   file[0] = int(file[0]) # size
   file[1] = file[1].rstrip() # path
filesizes.sort()
filelist = [file[1] for file in filesizes]

while find_freespace() < THRESHOLD and len(filelist) > 0:
delete_file(filelist.pop())

def find_freespace():
# Determine free space on /.
stat = os.statvfs("/")
freebytes  = stat[statvfs.F_BSIZE] * stat[statvfs.F_BAVAIL]
freekbytes = freebytes / 1024
return freekbytes

def delete_file(file):
# Delete a single file. 
print "Deleting " + file
try:
os.remove(file)
except os.error:
print "Couldn't delete " + file

def reboot():
os.popen("reboot")

main()
reboot()


-- 
Chris Ball   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: NAND out of space crash

[David Woodhouse]

On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 10:29 -0700, Deepak Saxena wrote:
> I can go ahead and apply the existing Nokia patch into the 8.2 kernel as
> a short-term measure but don't want to arbitrarilly choose a reservation 
> size. 
> Dave, do you have a suggestion as to what percentage should be reserved to 
> keep the GC from going out of control? If not, we'll need to run some
> performance tests to find the sweet spot.

I don't have a suggestion. But I'd prefer not to apply the overly
complex patch from Artem -- just add a 'root only' threshold and
hard-code it for now (we should really expose _all_ the thresholds in
sysfs).

-- 
dwmw2

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Re: NAND out of space crash

[John Gilmore]

I should've said that just removing a couple of useless or easily
replaced files -- rather than reflashing -- means that the kids don't
lose all their work when the NAND fills up.

John

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Re: NAND out of space crash

[John Gilmore]

> They are being innundated with "new" problems caused
> by full disk (but weren't really aware that was the cause.)
> 
> Since fixes in 8.2 won't help them for months, they need
> the short term fix (c).

Mitch added Forth words to delete files from the NAND flash, after
we had similar troubles after Christmas (bug #5744, #5719, #5317):
  
  Changed 7 months ago by [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  OFW q2d07c and later have the ability to delete files from the JFFS2
  filesystem, so long as there is at least one empty page for storing
  the deletion node.

ok dir n:\home\olpc\.sugar\default\data\
ok rm n:\home\olpc\.sugar\default\data\XXX

  where XXX is the name of the file you want to delete.

[I don't know how often there will be no empty page for the deletion
node - I suspect we'll find out.]

I suggest that OLPC figure out a short list of reasonably large files
that we supply on NAND, but which aren't actually needed by most
students (perhaps a language translation for a language they don't use;
or an activity binary that they can easily reinstall later).  Include
that list along with instructions on how to remove one or more of these
files when they get into this jam.

Of course, getting to Forth requires a normal computer (i.e. a
developer key, which every child is entitled to, but apparently no
children actually get).  You can get developer keys, even from a
crashed XO that won't boot NAND, using a collector key, web access,
and a lot of patience.

Somebody who had the sooper secret OLPC script-signing key could write
a Forth script that field teachers could run on crashed lockdown XO's,
which would put them into Forth and let them type.  (Perhaps if you
believe deeply in making security expensive, it can check to see if
the NAND is more than 95% full, and only let them type if so.  Or it
can provide a menu of files for deletion.  Or it can limit itself in
any number of ways, making it less useful but more quote-unquote safe)

John

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Re: running speech-dispatcher as non-root using setuid on XO and accompanying security issues

[Jan Buchal]

> "HG" == Hemant Goyal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

HG> Hi, What is the need for speech-dispatcher to run as root? Is it
HG> possible to run it as non-root? We need to modify the
HG> speechd.conf files from a non-root program and as such run the
HG> speech-dispatcher daemon with non-root privileges.
Sure. SD can runs as root or as any other user which has access on
audio. Every user has own configuration in .speech-dispatcher directory
or if there no, then it search in /etc/speech-dispatcher

-- 

Jan Buchal
Tel: (00420) 24 24 86 008
Mob: (00420) 608023021

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Re: PlayGo Patches/Commit access

[Bastien]

Hi Andrés!

I'm also a Go player and I'd really love to see this activity improve.

Is it already possible to share this activity so that children can play
together from two different XOs?  I was unable to get this working when
I last tried.  If this is not possible yet, I think this should be a top
priority, more than making it possible to play against GnuGo.

As for requests about getting commit access, I thought each activity had
a maintainer with its email well advertized, but this is not the case.

The maintainer's email could appear either on the activity wiki page
and/or in the git repository.  Sadly enough, there is no such contact
information neither on http://wiki.laptop.org/go/PlayGo nor in the git
repo: http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/PlayGo;a=summary (there is
only "Gerard J. Cerchio" as a name...)

Another good place to find the name of the maintainer would be
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities

In other git repos, the "Owner" is often an email, which makes it
straightforward for anyone to jump into a project.  See for example
http://repo.or.cz/

In gitorious.org or github.com, you can send messages to the owner:

http://gitorious.org/projects/basecms
http://github.com/agnathan/odf2logos/tree/master

Looking forward to kibbitzing with people around here!

-- 
Bastien
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Java and Watch-Listen nonfree

[David Leeming]

Hi,

I am looking for the right rpms to install for the Java plugin

java-1.6.0-openjdk-plugin

For a G1G1 XO-1 build 703, previously advertised method did not work;

Also trying to locate watch-listen-nonfree-14.xo The wiki says download it
from Helix site, it's not there, the Hleix Community mailing list did not
reply

David Leeming
Honiara, Solomon Islands


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Tomeu Vizoso
Sent: Friday, 18 July 2008 7:23 a.m.
To: David Leeming
Subject: Re: Java

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:00 PM, David Leeming
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> No I am using G1G1 XO-1s with build 703 update 1, ready for deployments in
> the Pacific Islands region. I am just setting up server and 75 laptops for
3
> school trials here and it would be great to have java working!

Oops, sorry, then that's F7 based and won't be so easy. We need to
find the right rpms to install, can you ask in the mailing list?
Haven't tried that myself. Tomorrow can try a bit more if you still
need it.

Good luck,

Tomeu

> As mentioned, the installation procedure I tried to follow did not work.
>
> I also tried it on 2 B4s (with 703) but no different - java did not
install.
> The Yum installation reported "no package available, nothing to do".
>
> If I knew exactly which rpm to download and where to get it from, I could
> try an offline install using a flash drive. Can you advise?
>
>
> David Leeming
> OLPC Coordinator, SPC and Technical Advisor, People First Network
> Honiara, Solomon Islands
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Tomeu Vizoso
> Sent: Thursday, 17 July 2008 8:34 p.m.
> To: David Leeming
> Subject: Re: Java
>
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:45 PM, David Leeming
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hi again
>>
>> Sorry I am a bit slow, only a beginner with Linux really. I am more into
> the
>> whole project deployment side.
>>
>> Can you explain how you did what you did in easy steps for a beginner?
>>
>> What I did was take an XO with an Internet connection and use the command
>> below
>>
>> yum install java-1.6.0-openjdk-plugin
>
> I just did that. I was assuming you are on joyride, you aren't? If
> not, which build version do you plan to deploy?
>
> Regards,
>
> Tomeu
>
>

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Re: PlayGo Patches/Commit access

[Bastien]

Andr�s Ambrois <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>   Yes, I don't own an XO, but I've tried running two sugar-jhbuild instances, 
> and it works fine. Well, there's no turn enforcement (you can play anywhere 
> anytime, even if it's the other guys turn), and you can't really tell if 
> anyone connected until they place a stone. So its very rough around the 
> edges. 

Ok, good to know things are there and only need improvement.  
I'm in the process of learning Python, so maybe I can help at 
some point.  

>> Looking forward to kibbitzing with people around here...
>
>   The only mention I could find is on http://blog.circlesoft.com/ But
> if there ever was a maintainer, it's clear that the project is
> completely orphaned.

That is a pity, but even more problematic is the fact that one 
has to spend time in order to discover it!

Really, I'd love to see the emails of the maintainers on the git
projects webpage.  

-- 
Bastien
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Re: State of 8.2.0, July 21, 2008

[NoiseEHC]

> My changes from the last 2 weeks are now in joyride, leaving us 2mb over
> target.
> I slimmed down 2 more packages today (pam and xorg-x11-utils) which
> should bring us to the target.
>
> We also need to get these package forks into Fedora. I filed a load of
> RH bugzilla bugs about them today. Hopefully Dennis can find time to
> give them a quick glance, then I can find another Fedora dev to do the
> merging and committing.
>
>   
remove mesa-libGL* and mesa-dri* stuff and similar.
mesa does not work since GLX is not compiled into X, at least on 2181.
(it does work if I compile it independently and gives me <3 FPS)
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Project name : Conozco Uruguay is set up

[Henry Edward Hardy]

Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:45:51 -0300, "Gabriel Eirea" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

1. Project name : Conozco Uruguay

Done. Your tree is here:
git+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/git/activities/conozco-uruguay

Please follow instructions here for importing your project:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Importing_your_project

Let us know if you have any problems with your tree. Happy hacking.

Sayamindu will please assist in setting up the pootle translation, thanks!

Cheers,

--
Henry Edward Hardy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: NAND out of space crash

[C. Scott Ananian]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 3:57 PM, John Watlington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It seems like we should be able to produce a upgrade and
> customize key that does this in one step, and preserves the
> activation key for the laptop.

Yes.  The issues in the past have just been coordination-related.  I
believe Emiliano is capable of generating a build image with the
Uruguay scripts installed, which is the first half of the problem.
 --scott

-- 
 ( http://cscott.net/ )
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Re: NAND out of space crash

[John Watlington]

It sounds like you are working on the root causes.
Tday I'm hanging out with the logistics/repair team,
and the problem is worse than I thought this morning.
They are being innundated with "new" problems caused
by full disk (but weren't really aware that was the cause.)

Since fixes in 8.2 won't help them for months, they need
the short term fix (c).   I will talk to Fiorella and her team
about progress on that tmw.

They also need a way of repairing these in the field.
Mailing them back to LATU for reflashing is costing a fortune.
Over 55% of their returns for repair are fixed by
reflashing/reactivating.

The problem with a teacher reflashing them are two:
1) The teachers don't have activation keys for the machines,
   and Uruguay doesn't want to start giving them out.
2) Currently, there is no monolithic image for Uruguay
   (I was unaware of this, but they say that first they reflash, then
   they activate, then they install the Uruguay specific scripts.)

It seems like we should be able to produce a upgrade and
customize key that does this in one step, and preserves the
activation key for the laptop.

Thoughts ?
wad

On Jul 21, 2008, at 2:39 PM, C. Scott Ananian wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 12:52 PM, Jim Gettys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> There are two issues here that we should be sure to not intertwingle:
>>
>> 1) whatever behavior Sugar may have when low/out of space, during
>> operation, or at boot time.
>
> A number of independent issues here:
>  a) the initscripts should be sure to unfreeze the dcon if/when X
> fails to start.  This ensures that the system is obviously recoverable
> (you can recover by rebooting with the check key held down, but this
> is not obvious!).
>  b) sugar should, ideally, start even if flash is full.   It is
> currently failing when writing to ~olpc/.boot_time or some such, and
> crashing.
>  c) once sugar starts, there should be a message indicating that the
> NAND is critically full.
>  d) trying to save new content to the journal should also give an
> obvious message that the NAND is full.
>  e) removing content from the journal should work even if NAND is  
> full.
>
> I think (a), (b), and (e) are critical for 8.2.  (c) is being handled
> independently by Uruguay, and (c) and (d) should be targets for 9.1.
>
>> 2) JFFS2's behavior when the file system is almost full.  When it  
>> gets
>> almost full, it can spend all its time trying to garbage collect, and
>> you can lose completely (the system sort of gets the "slows", and  
>> grinds
>> to a halt).
>>
>> As to 2), there are patches done by Nokia (deployed on the N800 and
>> similar devices) that reserve some extra space and report out of  
>> space
>> before the system "gets the slows".  These are in Dave's incoming  
>> queue
>> to merge into JFFS2 the last I heard.  I don't know if he's merged  
>> them.
>
> These are less critical, IMO.  I have filled up NAND, and "the slows"
> are not debilitating.  The issues above are. We should encourage Dave
> to fix this issue and the other known JFFS2 bugs (trac #6480, for
> instance)  -- or get dsaxena to do so -- for 9.1.
>  --scott
>
> -- 
>  ( http://cscott.net/ )

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Re: State of 8.2.0, July 21, 2008

[Daniel Drake]

On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 15:36 -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> 7319   DBG   jcardonaMulticast rx broken in joyride
>   \ No wireless team members present; we'll 
> need to get a separate update.

I'll have fixed this before I leave tonight. Looks like a number of
libertas patches were applied to stable but not testing.

> 7095   BLD   dsd Installation of xol bundles from Journal
> 7523   PKG   dsd Library index regeneration fails due to no 
> XDG_DATA_DIRS
> 7532   PKG   dsd Can't access installed content bundles
>   \ Blocker for Peru's use case according to 
> Wad + SJ.

These are just awaiting new sugar packages and joyride builds

> 7294   COD   erikb   Camera not working
>   \ work-around is already in joyride; 
> Record-55 works; 
>   \ some regressions in Record are left.

Not sure how high to prioritise this.

> 7353   DBG   dgilmoreF-9 Bloat (currently 46M over target)
>   \ had a nice discussion w/ abadger1999 
> (Toshio)
> suggestions: we need to be much more 
> aggressive about filing bugs in bz.rh.c
>  we need to include 
> references to all bz.rh.c and all upstream
>  bug reports in our tracking 
> bugs.
>  major goals: merge dsd's 
> changes, kill Perl, and then re-evaluate.

My changes from the last 2 weeks are now in joyride, leaving us 2mb over
target.
I slimmed down 2 more packages today (pam and xorg-x11-utils) which
should bring us to the target.

We also need to get these package forks into Fedora. I filed a load of
RH bugzilla bugs about them today. Hopefully Dennis can find time to
give them a quick glance, then I can find another Fedora dev to do the
merging and committing.

> 6673,7466  ???   dsd?tamtam broken.
>   \ i think TamTam+joyride is going to be a 
> headache   --- why?
>   \ csound is broken, i just commented on the 
> ticket
>   \ need to speak w/ the tamtam folks: Jean 
> Piche'. (ask jg for others)

I have got TamTam working but audio performance is bad - stuttering etc.
Something (one of the ALSA components?) has regressed quite majorly
since F7.



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Reminder: Tuesday Release & Wednesday Software Meetings -- 2:00 PM in #olpc-meeting on irc.freenode.org

[Michael Stone]

Dear world,

We should meet tomorrow to discuss release questions and on Wednesday to
discuss tickets. I will arrive fifteen minutes early for each of these meetings
to finalize the agenda for each; however, here are some tentative items:

-

For TUESDAY:

* General impressions
* Resourcing issues
* Miscellanea

For WEDNESDAY:

A review of blockers; present and proposed.

-

Finally, please reply with other items that you'd like to discuss or join me
early at each of our meetings. As before, we'll record the minutes and
the agenda in Gobby.

Thanks,

Michael
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Re: [laptop.org #16813] joyride builds failing due to insufficient space

[C. Scott Ananian]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:44 PM, Morgan Collett
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Marc Maurer (uwog) did it.

I've asked dgilmore/uwog to untag the new libabiword from the olpc3
branch until the appropriate libabiword-plugins/pyabiword is
available, so that libabiword doesn't break our builds in the interim.

In general, I yell at developers who break joyride, because it
prevents the rest of us from getting work done.  Everyone: please
revert/fix promptly any change you make which breaks joyride builds.
For almost any change you would like to make (pilgrim patches
excepted), you should be able to test locally by installing the given
RPMs, to avoid ever having to break the build for the rest of us.

In The Future (tm), I would like a mechanism to automatically
revert/reject packages from joyride based on the results of automated
testing (tinderbox?).
 --scott

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State of 8.2.0, July 21, 2008

[Michael Stone]

The bulk of this report was generated in the July 16, 2008 software status
meeting and is therefore several days out of date. Please help update it over
the next two days in preparation for our Tuesday and Wednesday meetings!

Next, the bottom of the report contains my raw notes on important subsystems
like localization, collaboration, and session management. Please help fill
these sections in with important bugs by scheduling triage meetings with Greg
and me! (This week, I would particularly like to meet with people working on
Localization, Collaboration, and the Wireless/Connectivity subsystems.
Please suggest some times that would work well for you.)

Finally, I could really use some help preparing subsections of this
report and folding the triage comments given below into the trac tickets
to which they apply. If you have any interest in volunteering to help
me watch your favorite subsystem, please speak up!

Michael

Status Key: 
  ??? - status or author unknown
  TST - needs to be tested in a build
  BLD - needs to be put into a build
  PKG - pkg needs to be built
  DBG - debugging/diagnosis still needed
  DSN - design needed
  STK - stuck; a decision is needed about how to proceed
  SGN - a signoff is needed
  ESC - canceled or siginificantly reduced in priority
  FIN - successfully finished
  MSG - communication needed
  ROT - solution has bitrotted
  OWN - owner needed
  REV - progressing through code review
  COD - simple matter of coding
  QA  - qa signoff needed

=== Current blockers

7125   DSN   cscott  Boot fails when disk is full
7586   DSN   erikg   initscripts should unfreeze DCON if X fails to 
start (or exits)
6136   COD   erikos  No feedback from 'register' request
7426   COD   tomeu   Journal in f7 disappears after olpc-update to 
f9

7319   DBG   jcardonaMulticast rx broken in joyride
  \ No wireless team members present; we'll 
need to get a separate update.

7566   DGN   marco   Sugar-shell enters an infinite loop after a 
failed shutdown
7071   QAtomeu   Activities cannot be deleted via GUI
7444   QAmorgs   Cannot close a shared activity when the 
initiator has disconnected

7095   BLD   dsd Installation of xol bundles from Journal
7523   PKG   dsd Library index regeneration fails due to no 
XDG_DATA_DIRS
7532   PKG   dsd Can't access installed content bundles
  \ Blocker for Peru's use case according to 
Wad + SJ.

7477   DBG   sayamindu   ISO_Next_Group key doesn't work
7269   DBG   sayamindu   Dari laptops don't use Dari characters
  \ Do we need to make an SKU with correct mfg 
data?
  \ 
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=455636


7457   DBG   Collabora   Laptops unable to see each other in Joyride
  \ expected, given #7319 below.

6825   DBG   erikos  Problems with email web-frontend 
www.adinet.com.uy
  \ may be related to 5156?

7294   COD   erikb   Camera not working
  \ work-around is already in joyride; 
Record-55 works; 
  \ some regressions in Record are left.

7339   FIN   tomeu   CPU spins after starting an activity


=== Important bugs

5104, 5527 DBG   ??? Reconnecting to encrypted access points with NM
  \ 
http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-July/016335.html
  \ Sjoerd knows some things about this.

7474   DBG   erikg   Amharic compose key broken
  \ sayamindu is stumped and needs help. erikg, 
maybe?

7480   DSN   erikg   Networking configuration reset button
7458   DBG   dsaxena Suspend/Resume (S/R) lockups
  \ dsaxena side-tracked; rsmith's help 
requested
  \ pgf might be available. needs to be 
retested w/ new wireless firmware
  \ probably realted to 2621

many   TST   dilingerTouchpad bugs.  
  \ 
http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-May/013580.html

7353   DBG   dgilmoreF-9 Bloat (currently 46M over target)
  \ had a nice discussion w/ abadger1999 
(Toshio)
suggestions: we need to be much more 
aggressive about filing bugs in bz.rh.c
 we need to include references 
to all bz.rh.c and all upstream
 bug reports in our tracking 
bugs.
 

Re: dropping mkinitrd from recent Joyrides

[C. Scott Ananian]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Mikus Grinbergs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Came across an XO on which 'rpm -q kernel' listed two packages --
> from 0716 and from 0718.  Wanted to do 'rpm -e' on the one from
> 0716.  That failed, because file '/sbin/new-kernel-pkg' could not be
> found.  Did 'yum install mkinitrd'.  Now the 'rpm -e' of the 0716
> package worked.

What was /boot/olpc_build on these machines?

Had the kernel been manually updated, or was this an actual build
which had this problem?
 --scott

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dropping mkinitrd from recent Joyrides

[Mikus Grinbergs]

Came across an XO on which 'rpm -q kernel' listed two packages -- 
from 0716 and from 0718.  Wanted to do 'rpm -e' on the one from 
0716.  That failed, because file '/sbin/new-kernel-pkg' could not be 
found.  Did 'yum install mkinitrd'.  Now the 'rpm -e' of the 0716 
package worked.

mikus

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Re: NAND out of space crash

[C. Scott Ananian]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Erik Garrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A few days ago you were getting a system into a NAND-full state.  What
> method did you find worked best (cat /dev/urandom >...) ?

cat /dev/urandom > /home/olpc/space-filler

cat'ing /dev/zero doesn't work nearly as well: jffs2 compresses as you
go and you get a 4G file (where 32-bit file sizes run out) without
actually filling your NAND.
 --scott

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Re: gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus

[Daniel Drake]

J5,

We're rebasing OLPC to F9, and are wondering about gnome-vfs2 vs GConf.
It looks like you touched upon this area in the past.

On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 19:22 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Daniel Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 19:00 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
> >> > I guess GConf2-dbus provides an equivalent interface to the GConf2
> >> > package and hence is a drop-in replacement.
> >>
> >> Oh ok, that make sense and I guess it's the case here...
> >
> > So do we want to use GConf2-dbus like we did for update1, or are we ok
> > to stick with plain old GConf2 in 8.2?
> 
> I'm not sure. The reason people didn't want plain GConf in the build
> was the ORBit dependency. Now I'm not sure if the problem there was
> disk space, memory or what else. I guess we should measure...

Do you have any opinion on whether we should continue using GConf2-dbus
rather than GConf2?

Thanks,
Daniel


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Re: NAND out of space crash

[Erik Garrison]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 02:35:28PM -0400, C. Scott Ananian wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Erik Garrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>  b) sugar should, ideally, start even if flash is full.   It is
> >> currently failing when writing to ~olpc/.boot_time or some such, and
> >> crashing.
> >
> > In olpc-utils: usr/bin/olpc-session.  This was done for performance
> > testing work, and I am unaware of other references to the file.  We can
> > either comment out this stanza or remove it.  I have attached patches to
> > do either.
> 
> Erik, would you mind claiming #7586 and/or #7587?  

Sure.

> I don't think we need to remove the boot time code; we just need to
> make sure that the shell script doesn't exit if it fails.

I didn't understand the failure mode because I haven't set up a system.

A few days ago you were getting a system into a NAND-full state.  What
method did you find worked best (cat /dev/urandom >...) ?

Erik
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Re: [laptop.org #16813] joyride builds failing due to insufficient space

[Morgan Collett]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 20:29, C. Scott Ananian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 6:03 AM, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>  sugar - 0.81.6-4.20080715git8137d5c37f.fc9.i386: Insufficient space
>> in download directory
>> /home/cscott/public_html/xo-1/streams/joyride/build2187-20080720_2235/devel_jffs2/install_root/var/cache/yum/olpc_development/packages
>> to download
>
> It looks like xs-dev.laptop.org has plenty of space in the specified
> directory.  After cleaning up the incomplete builds, it seems like the
> "new" problem is related to abiword-plugins:
>  
> http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/xo-1/streams/joyride/build2188/devel_jffs2/build.log
>
> Transaction Check Error:
>  file /usr/lib/abiword-2.6/plugins/libAbiCollab.so conflicts between
> attempted installs of libabiword-2.6.4-2.olpc3 and
> libabiword-plugins-2.6.0.svn20071127-2
>  file /usr/lib/abiword-2.6/plugins/libAbiOpenDocument.so conflicts
> between attempted installs of libabiword-2.6.4-2.olpc3 and
> libabiword-plugins-2.6.0.svn20071127-2
>  file /usr/lib/abiword-2.6/plugins/libLoadBindings.so conflicts
> between attempted installs of libabiword-2.6.4-2.olpc3 and
> libabiword-plugins-2.6.0.svn20071127-2
>  file /usr/share/abiword-2.6/glade/ap_UnixDialog_CollaborationJoin.glade
> conflicts between attempted installs of libabiword-2.6.4-2.olpc3 and
> libabiword-plugins-2.6.0.svn20071127-2
>
> It looks like we branched libabiword for olpc3 but didn't branch
> libabiword-plugins?  Does anyone on devel@ know who did that, and who
> can fix it?  Thanks.

Marc Maurer (uwog) did it.

>From an irc conversation, it appears that libabiword now includes the
plugins. If it's time sensitive and he hasn't confirmed, drop
libabiword-plugins from the build until he can explain.

Here's the irc log in case I'm reading it wrong.

Jul 17 15:21:56   dgilmore: ok, in fedora i have 1 abiword package
Jul 17 15:22:23   dgilmore: for olpc, we have libabiword,
libabiword-plugins, and pyabiword
Jul 17 15:22:33   dgilmore: the question is, how to merge
Jul 17 15:22:35   uwog: ok
Jul 17 15:23:00   dgilmore: i can in fedora build libabiword and
abiword from 1 source rpm
Jul 17 15:23:10   uwog: can we make abiword  use
libabiword libabiword-plugins and pyabiword?
Jul 17 15:23:12   dgilmore: pyabiword then depends on libabiword
Jul 17 15:23:20   uwog: ok
Jul 17 15:23:31   dgilmore: but in fedora, i do NOT want a
seperate plugins package
Jul 17 15:23:36   uwog: have you talked with the fedora
maintainer of abiword?
Jul 17 15:23:45   dgilmore: that's me
Jul 17 15:23:53   uwog: :)  makes it easy then
Jul 17 15:24:02   dgilmore: i wish :)
Jul 17 15:24:14   well makes co-ordinating easy
Jul 17 15:24:41   dgilmore: what i could do, is ditch the
olpc-specific libabiword-plugins package, and just include the plugins
in libabiword
Jul 17 15:24:57   uwog: how about you make the
libabiword-plugins  package built when defined by a macro
Jul 17 15:25:07   also an option
Jul 17 15:25:25   but what would that gain us ?
Jul 17 15:25:30   uwog: then you can have a branch  copy
over from fedora change a defines   and build
Jul 17 15:25:57   uwog: what does the plugins package get us?
Jul 17 15:26:04   well, plugins
Jul 17 15:26:05   :)
Jul 17 15:26:08   but fedora does not have it
Jul 17 15:26:18   it's all currently included in 1 abiword package
Jul 17 15:26:19   is there a good reason to have it seperate?
Jul 17 15:26:47   i.e.  why did you do it that way in
the first place?
Jul 17 15:27:25   dgilmore: because abiword was shipped for
2.6.x as 2 different tarballs i guess
Jul 17 15:27:34   i doubt there was more rationale than that
Jul 17 15:28:30   dgilmore: do you know if 'fedora' would mind
if i all of a sudden split out libabiword during the f9 cycle ?
Jul 17 15:30:13   uwog: its not ideal,  but as long as
someone running yum update gets the same functonality then it will be
ok
Jul 17 15:30:26   ok
Jul 17 15:30:49   dgilmore: so, i will include the plugins in
libabiword... for normal fedora, i will include more plugins than the
olpc build
Jul 17 15:35:13   uwog: ok
Jul 17 15:35:24   dgilmore: thx
Jul 17 15:35:26   uwog: want me to make you a OLPC-3 branch?
Jul 17 15:35:32   dgilmore: please

Morgan
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Re: gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus

[Marco Pesenti Gritti]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:36 PM, Sayamindu Dasgupta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 12:03 AM, Jim Gettys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 20:25 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
>>> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Jim Gettys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> > In general,  gnome is moving away from Bonobo/Orbit toward dbus based
>>> > messaging.
>>>
>>> Yeah, there is no plan yet (that I know of) to replace GConf with
>>> something dbus based though :(
>>
>> Dunno current plans...
>>
>> There does seem to be code
>>
>> http://developer.imendio.com/projects/misc/gconf-dbus
>>- Jim
>>
>
> I think we use this already - http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/3991

Yeah, it's never going to be merged upstream though... It's basically
a stop gap for embedded devices (it was for Nokia I think), until
something better comes along.

Marco
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Re: gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus

[Sayamindu Dasgupta]

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 12:03 AM, Jim Gettys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 20:25 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
>> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Jim Gettys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > In general,  gnome is moving away from Bonobo/Orbit toward dbus based
>> > messaging.
>>
>> Yeah, there is no plan yet (that I know of) to replace GConf with
>> something dbus based though :(
>
> Dunno current plans...
>
> There does seem to be code
>
> http://developer.imendio.com/projects/misc/gconf-dbus
>- Jim
>

I think we use this already - http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/3991

Cheers,
Sayamindu



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Re: NAND out of space crash

[C. Scott Ananian]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Erik Garrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>  b) sugar should, ideally, start even if flash is full.   It is
>> currently failing when writing to ~olpc/.boot_time or some such, and
>> crashing.
>
> In olpc-utils: usr/bin/olpc-session.  This was done for performance
> testing work, and I am unaware of other references to the file.  We can
> either comment out this stanza or remove it.  I have attached patches to
> do either.

Erik, would you mind claiming #7586 and/or #7587?  I don't think we
need to remove the boot time code; we just need to make sure that the
shell script doesn't exit if it fails.
 --scott

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Re: gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus

[Jim Gettys]

On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 20:25 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Jim Gettys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > In general,  gnome is moving away from Bonobo/Orbit toward dbus based
> > messaging.
> 
> Yeah, there is no plan yet (that I know of) to replace GConf with
> something dbus based though :(

Dunno current plans...

There does seem to be code

http://developer.imendio.com/projects/misc/gconf-dbus
- Jim

> 
> Marco
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Re: NAND out of space crash

[Erik Garrison]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 01:39:25PM -0400, C. Scott Ananian wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 12:52 PM, Jim Gettys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > There are two issues here that we should be sure to not intertwingle:
> >
> > 1) whatever behavior Sugar may have when low/out of space, during
> > operation, or at boot time.
> 
> A number of independent issues here:
>  ...
>  b) sugar should, ideally, start even if flash is full.   It is
> currently failing when writing to ~olpc/.boot_time or some such, and
> crashing.

In olpc-utils: usr/bin/olpc-session.  This was done for performance
testing work, and I am unaware of other references to the file.  We can
either comment out this stanza or remove it.  I have attached patches to
do either.

Erik
>From 3527ba05f79f2a6543baa004a8b6fbf613dcd735 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Erik Garrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:25:23 -0400
Subject: [PATCH] Stop writing ~/.boot_time at startup so we can improve our chances in NAND-fillup land.

---
 usr/bin/olpc-session |7 ---
 1 files changed, 4 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)

diff --git a/usr/bin/olpc-session b/usr/bin/olpc-session
index c50b5f1..a38bd4b 100755
--- a/usr/bin/olpc-session
+++ b/usr/bin/olpc-session
@@ -60,9 +60,10 @@ xset -r 9 -r 220  -r 67 -r 68 -r 69 -r 70 -r 71 -r 72 -r 73 -r 74 -r 79 -r \
 # source custom user session, if present
 [ -f "$HOME/.xsession" ] && . "$HOME/.xsession"
 
-# useful for performance work
-mv $HOME/.boot_time $HOME/.boot_time.prev 2>/dev/null
-cat /proc/uptime >$HOME/.boot_time
+# Uncomment the following lines to save a record of our startup time.
+# This is useful for performance work.
+# mv $HOME/.boot_time $HOME/.boot_time.prev 2>/dev/null
+# cat /proc/uptime >$HOME/.boot_time
 
 # finally, run sugar
 exec /usr/bin/ck-xinit-session /usr/bin/sugar
-- 
1.5.4.3

>From 66cbebe1338dd9167d49b69cb71b4911676bb013 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Erik Garrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:21:06 -0400
Subject: [PATCH] Stop writing ~/.boot_time at startup so we can improve our chances in NAND-fillup land.

---
 usr/bin/olpc-session |4 
 1 files changed, 0 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-)

diff --git a/usr/bin/olpc-session b/usr/bin/olpc-session
index c50b5f1..4a82845 100755
--- a/usr/bin/olpc-session
+++ b/usr/bin/olpc-session
@@ -60,9 +60,5 @@ xset -r 9 -r 220  -r 67 -r 68 -r 69 -r 70 -r 71 -r 72 -r 73 -r 74 -r 79 -r \
 # source custom user session, if present
 [ -f "$HOME/.xsession" ] && . "$HOME/.xsession"
 
-# useful for performance work
-mv $HOME/.boot_time $HOME/.boot_time.prev 2>/dev/null
-cat /proc/uptime >$HOME/.boot_time
-
 # finally, run sugar
 exec /usr/bin/ck-xinit-session /usr/bin/sugar
-- 
1.5.4.3

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Re: NAND out of space crash

[Deepak Saxena]

On Jul 21 2008, at 13:55, Jim Gettys was caught saying:
> > #6480 is fixed as of yesterday, should be in next joyride.
> > 
> > I'll be re-doing Nokia's patches so that they go upstream if we still want
> > them after 8.2 is out; however, I don't think the approach used by them 
> > actually 
> > helps us.  We already have a very limited amount of storage space and 
> > reserving 
> > space for the root user just reduces what the end user can actually use.
> 
> IIRC, the issue is the GC runs more and more often the closer to full
> you run.  By reserving some space, you avoid the performance cliff.
> 
> Since we expect to be running nearly full most of the time, it would
> seem to me avoiding this cliff is important.

I can go ahead and apply the existing Nokia patch into the 8.2 kernel as
a short-term measure but don't want to arbitrarilly choose a reservation size. 
Dave, do you have a suggestion as to what percentage should be reserved to 
keep the GC from going out of control? If not, we'll need to run some
performance tests to find the sweet spot.

~Deepak

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Re: [laptop.org #16813] joyride builds failing due to insufficient space

[C. Scott Ananian]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 6:03 AM, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  sugar - 0.81.6-4.20080715git8137d5c37f.fc9.i386: Insufficient space
> in download directory
> /home/cscott/public_html/xo-1/streams/joyride/build2187-20080720_2235/devel_jffs2/install_root/var/cache/yum/olpc_development/packages
> to download

It looks like xs-dev.laptop.org has plenty of space in the specified
directory.  After cleaning up the incomplete builds, it seems like the
"new" problem is related to abiword-plugins:
  
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/xo-1/streams/joyride/build2188/devel_jffs2/build.log

Transaction Check Error:
  file /usr/lib/abiword-2.6/plugins/libAbiCollab.so conflicts between
attempted installs of libabiword-2.6.4-2.olpc3 and
libabiword-plugins-2.6.0.svn20071127-2
  file /usr/lib/abiword-2.6/plugins/libAbiOpenDocument.so conflicts
between attempted installs of libabiword-2.6.4-2.olpc3 and
libabiword-plugins-2.6.0.svn20071127-2
  file /usr/lib/abiword-2.6/plugins/libLoadBindings.so conflicts
between attempted installs of libabiword-2.6.4-2.olpc3 and
libabiword-plugins-2.6.0.svn20071127-2
  file /usr/share/abiword-2.6/glade/ap_UnixDialog_CollaborationJoin.glade
conflicts between attempted installs of libabiword-2.6.4-2.olpc3 and
libabiword-plugins-2.6.0.svn20071127-2

It looks like we branched libabiword for olpc3 but didn't branch
libabiword-plugins?  Does anyone on devel@ know who did that, and who
can fix it?  Thanks.
  --scott

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Re: gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus

[Marco Pesenti Gritti]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Jim Gettys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In general,  gnome is moving away from Bonobo/Orbit toward dbus based
> messaging.

Yeah, there is no plan yet (that I know of) to replace GConf with
something dbus based though :(

Marco
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Re: PlayGo Patches/Commit access

[Andrés Ambrois]

On Monday 21 July 2008 08:50:53 Bastien wrote:
> Hi Andr�s!
>
> I'm also a Go player and I'd really love to see this activity improve.
>
> Is it already possible to share this activity so that children can play
> together from two different XOs?  I was unable to get this working when
> I last tried.  If this is not possible yet, I think this should be a top
> priority, more than making it possible to play against GnuGo.

  Yes, I don't own an XO, but I've tried running two sugar-jhbuild instances, 
and it works fine. Well, there's no turn enforcement (you can play anywhere 
anytime, even if it's the other guys turn), and you can't really tell if 
anyone connected until they place a stone. So its very rough around the 
edges. 

  I also agree on the GnuGo priority. KISS first :). 

> As for requests about getting commit access, I thought each activity had
> a maintainer with its email well advertized, but this is not the case.
>
> The maintainer's email could appear either on the activity wiki page
> and/or in the git repository.  Sadly enough, there is no such contact
> information neither on http://wiki.laptop.org/go/PlayGo nor in the git
> repo: http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/PlayGo;a=summary (there is
> only "Gerard J. Cerchio" as a name...)
>
> Another good place to find the name of the maintainer would be
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities
>
> In other git repos, the "Owner" is often an email, which makes it
> straightforward for anyone to jump into a project.  See for example
> http://repo.or.cz/
>
> In gitorious.org or github.com, you can send messages to the owner:
>
>   http://gitorious.org/projects/basecms
>   http://github.com/agnathan/odf2logos/tree/master
>
> Looking forward to kibbitzing with people around here...

  The only mention I could find is on http://blog.circlesoft.com/ But if there 
ever was a maintainer, it's clear that the project is completely orphaned. 

-- 
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Re: gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus

[Jim Gettys]

In general,  gnome is moving away from Bonobo/Orbit toward dbus based
messaging.
 - Jim


On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 20:09 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:59 PM, Daniel Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 13:28 -0400, Jim Gettys wrote:
> >> The bonobo-activation-server likes to chew up 40mb (of RAM), for doing
> >> almost nothing.
> >
> > ORBit doesn't appear to depend on any bonobo components. And we've
> > successfully kicked bonobo out of the build.
> 
> It's bonobo that depends on ORBit, I guess the fear here is that, as
> bonobo, GConf might use a lot of memory because of ORBit. It should
> not be hard to measure.
> 
> Marco
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Re: NAND out of space crash

[C. Scott Ananian]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 1:39 PM, C. Scott Ananian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A number of independent issues here:

I have edited http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/7125 to clarify the pieces
of this bug and to make the component tasks (including #5317) more
obvious.  I have *not* attempted to set milestones or priorities;
that's up to Greg/Michael/the component authors.  Clearly some of
these items are more critical that others; I agree with Deepak and
dwmw2 in that it might be "easier"/"better" to fix the root allocation
issue in 9.1 by simply moving to a better filesystem, since "the
slows" are not the critical item for this bug.

Anyway, please continue the discussion in trac for #7125 and its children.
 --scott

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Re: gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus

[Marco Pesenti Gritti]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:59 PM, Daniel Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 13:28 -0400, Jim Gettys wrote:
>> The bonobo-activation-server likes to chew up 40mb (of RAM), for doing
>> almost nothing.
>
> ORBit doesn't appear to depend on any bonobo components. And we've
> successfully kicked bonobo out of the build.

It's bonobo that depends on ORBit, I guess the fear here is that, as
bonobo, GConf might use a lot of memory because of ORBit. It should
not be hard to measure.

Marco
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Re: NAND out of space crash

[C. Scott Ananian]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 1:55 PM, David Woodhouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> #6480 is fixed as of yesterday, should be in next joyride.
>
> Yeah. Since it was purely cosmetic I figured it might as well just wait
> to come through 'naturally'.

It's not purely cosmetic: in my testing the bogus accounting affects
the output of 'df', so that sugar thinks there is space available,
even though writes will all fail due to insufficient space.  I should
have noted this more clearly in the bug.
  --scott

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Re: gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus

[Daniel Drake]

On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 13:28 -0400, Jim Gettys wrote:
> The bonobo-activation-server likes to chew up 40mb (of RAM), for doing
> almost nothing.

ORBit doesn't appear to depend on any bonobo components. And we've
successfully kicked bonobo out of the build.

Daniel


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Re: PlayGo Patches/Commit access

[Andrés Ambrois]

On Sunday 20 July 2008 01:14:48 Edward Cherlin wrote:
> 2008/7/19 Andrés Ambrois <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >  Hello all!
> >
> >  I've recently started learning python and sugar programming and, while
> > trying to be useful in the meantime, have been tinkering around with the
> > PlayGo activity.
>
> Thanks. I wrote to the American Go Association when we started this
> project, and they wrote back, "We can't tell you how excited we are."
> They put a note in their e-mail newsletter about us. When we can take
> our software to one of their events, we can talk about getting
> assorted game records and go literature into a library content bundle.
>
> I was a 6-kyu player in my youth, according to the teachers in my
> school in Korea, where I was a Peace Corps Volunteer. I learned at a
> chess club when I was eleven. If I had had access to the literature
> available now, I am sure I would have made amateur dan. I am delighted
> to see children getting opportunities I didn't have back then, and
> being able to help get even more opportunities to way more children.
>
> I can read the Korean and Japanese go literature a little, and I can
> provide pointers to a lot of on-line resources.
>
> The Hip-Hop Chess Federation is also interested in our work, as is
> International Chess Master Josh Waitzkin, author of The Art of
> Learning". Walter Bender started discussions with his book and chess
> tutorial software publishers about Free licenses on versions of the
> book and software.
>
> I have literature and contacts for a great many more games. We aren't
> going to run out of programming exercises for a very long time.

 Very cool! Thanks for your support, and count on me bugging you when/if I get 
a chance to start working on the finer details :).

> >  I have a few patches that add basic scorekeeping,
>
> Do you mean scoring at the very end of a game, or scoring games in
> matches, or what? Can your code estimate who is ahead in a game?

I added another text box on the bottom of the board that reads: "Whites: X - 
Blacks: Y" during the game. No end results yet. I haven't even added a "Pass" 
button XD. 

> > error messages
> > (like: "There already is a stone there!"), and small code cleanup.
>
> Is there a ko rule implemented? Can we get all of the different rule
> sets as options (Japan, China, Korea, Ing)?
>
  Yup, I implemented basic Ko, and it works on single player. Sharing works, 
but it bypasses most of the rule-enforcing code, so it's not very nice, so 
I'll have to spend some time fixing that. 


-- 
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Re: Joyride and microphone

[Richard A. Smith]

Robert Myers wrote:

> 
> Is this a software issue or did my mic die? Things were working before I 
> upgraded to Joyride. Anything I can do to check?

You stated that it work in the ofw selftest so your hardware appears good.

> If this is a software issue are there libraries or versions I need to 
> change?

Run alsamixer from the command like and take a look at what the various 
settings are.  Make sure the mic is unmuted and that the record levels 
are set properly and the v_refout is enabled (unmuted) and DC Mode disabled.

When using alsamixer make sure you switch to the "capture" settings with 
the tab key to see the mic record level.  In "playback" the "mic" 
control is not the microphone record control its the analog mixer 
control which is the level of mic input thats routed back the the 
speaker output.  Muted and zero is the proper setting for that control.

-- 
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Re: NAND out of space crash

[David Woodhouse]

On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 09:51 -0700, Deepak Saxena wrote:
> On Jul 21 2008, at 13:39, C. Scott Ananian was caught saying:
> > > 2) JFFS2's behavior when the file system is almost full.  When it gets
> > > almost full, it can spend all its time trying to garbage collect, and
> > > you can lose completely (the system sort of gets the "slows", and grinds
> > > to a halt).
> > >
> > > As to 2), there are patches done by Nokia (deployed on the N800 and
> > > similar devices) that reserve some extra space and report out of space
> > > before the system "gets the slows".  These are in Dave's incoming queue
> > > to merge into JFFS2 the last I heard.  I don't know if he's merged them.
> > 
> > These are less critical, IMO.  I have filled up NAND, and "the slows"
> > are not debilitating.  The issues above are. We should encourage Dave
> > to fix this issue and the other known JFFS2 bugs (trac #6480, for
> > instance)  -- or get dsaxena to do so -- for 9.1.
> 
> #6480 is fixed as of yesterday, should be in next joyride.

Yeah. Since it was purely cosmetic I figured it might as well just wait
to come through 'naturally'.

> I'll be re-doing Nokia's patches so that they go upstream if we still want
> them after 8.2 is out; however, I don't think the approach used by them 
> actually 
> helps us.  We already have a very limited amount of storage space and 
> reserving 
> space for the root user just reduces what the end user can actually use.
> 
> I think analyzing performance of non-JFFS2 file systems and picking
> a replacement should be a high-priority item for 9.1 update.

I'm looking at making btrfs work on pure flash. It looks fairly sane in
that respect. Using a 'standard' file system will have benefits...


-- 
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Re: NAND out of space crash

[Tomeu Vizoso]

Hi, agreed on the action items, not so sure about the roadmap.

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:39 PM, C. Scott Ananian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  d) trying to save new content to the journal should also give an
> obvious message that the NAND is full.

Should the DS also reserve some free space?

Regards,

Tomeu
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Re: NAND out of space crash

[Jim Gettys]

On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 09:51 -0700, Deepak Saxena wrote:
> On Jul 21 2008, at 13:39, C. Scott Ananian was caught saying:
> > > 2) JFFS2's behavior when the file system is almost full.  When it gets
> > > almost full, it can spend all its time trying to garbage collect, and
> > > you can lose completely (the system sort of gets the "slows", and grinds
> > > to a halt).
> > >
> > > As to 2), there are patches done by Nokia (deployed on the N800 and
> > > similar devices) that reserve some extra space and report out of space
> > > before the system "gets the slows".  These are in Dave's incoming queue
> > > to merge into JFFS2 the last I heard.  I don't know if he's merged them.
> > 
> > These are less critical, IMO.  I have filled up NAND, and "the slows"
> > are not debilitating.  The issues above are. We should encourage Dave
> > to fix this issue and the other known JFFS2 bugs (trac #6480, for
> > instance)  -- or get dsaxena to do so -- for 9.1.
> 
> #6480 is fixed as of yesterday, should be in next joyride.
> 
> I'll be re-doing Nokia's patches so that they go upstream if we still want
> them after 8.2 is out; however, I don't think the approach used by them 
> actually 
> helps us.  We already have a very limited amount of storage space and 
> reserving 
> space for the root user just reduces what the end user can actually use.

IIRC, the issue is the GC runs more and more often the closer to full
you run.  By reserving some space, you avoid the performance cliff.

Since we expect to be running nearly full most of the time, it would
seem to me avoiding this cliff is important.

> 
> I think analyzing performance of non-JFFS2 file systems and picking
> a replacement should be a high-priority item for 9.1 update.

No argument here
  - Jim

> 
> ~Deepak
> 
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Re: NAND out of space crash

[Deepak Saxena]

On Jul 21 2008, at 13:39, C. Scott Ananian was caught saying:
> > 2) JFFS2's behavior when the file system is almost full.  When it gets
> > almost full, it can spend all its time trying to garbage collect, and
> > you can lose completely (the system sort of gets the "slows", and grinds
> > to a halt).
> >
> > As to 2), there are patches done by Nokia (deployed on the N800 and
> > similar devices) that reserve some extra space and report out of space
> > before the system "gets the slows".  These are in Dave's incoming queue
> > to merge into JFFS2 the last I heard.  I don't know if he's merged them.
> 
> These are less critical, IMO.  I have filled up NAND, and "the slows"
> are not debilitating.  The issues above are. We should encourage Dave
> to fix this issue and the other known JFFS2 bugs (trac #6480, for
> instance)  -- or get dsaxena to do so -- for 9.1.

#6480 is fixed as of yesterday, should be in next joyride.

I'll be re-doing Nokia's patches so that they go upstream if we still want
them after 8.2 is out; however, I don't think the approach used by them 
actually 
helps us.  We already have a very limited amount of storage space and reserving 
space for the root user just reduces what the end user can actually use.

I think analyzing performance of non-JFFS2 file systems and picking
a replacement should be a high-priority item for 9.1 update.

~Deepak

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Re: NAND out of space crash

[C. Scott Ananian]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 12:52 PM, Jim Gettys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There are two issues here that we should be sure to not intertwingle:
>
> 1) whatever behavior Sugar may have when low/out of space, during
> operation, or at boot time.

A number of independent issues here:
 a) the initscripts should be sure to unfreeze the dcon if/when X
fails to start.  This ensures that the system is obviously recoverable
(you can recover by rebooting with the check key held down, but this
is not obvious!).
 b) sugar should, ideally, start even if flash is full.   It is
currently failing when writing to ~olpc/.boot_time or some such, and
crashing.
 c) once sugar starts, there should be a message indicating that the
NAND is critically full.
 d) trying to save new content to the journal should also give an
obvious message that the NAND is full.
 e) removing content from the journal should work even if NAND is full.

I think (a), (b), and (e) are critical for 8.2.  (c) is being handled
independently by Uruguay, and (c) and (d) should be targets for 9.1.

> 2) JFFS2's behavior when the file system is almost full.  When it gets
> almost full, it can spend all its time trying to garbage collect, and
> you can lose completely (the system sort of gets the "slows", and grinds
> to a halt).
>
> As to 2), there are patches done by Nokia (deployed on the N800 and
> similar devices) that reserve some extra space and report out of space
> before the system "gets the slows".  These are in Dave's incoming queue
> to merge into JFFS2 the last I heard.  I don't know if he's merged them.

These are less critical, IMO.  I have filled up NAND, and "the slows"
are not debilitating.  The issues above are. We should encourage Dave
to fix this issue and the other known JFFS2 bugs (trac #6480, for
instance)  -- or get dsaxena to do so -- for 9.1.
 --scott

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Re: gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus

[Jim Gettys]

The bonobo-activation-server likes to chew up 40mb (of RAM), for doing
almost nothing.
- Jim


On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 19:22 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Daniel Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 19:00 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
> >> > I guess GConf2-dbus provides an equivalent interface to the GConf2
> >> > package and hence is a drop-in replacement.
> >>
> >> Oh ok, that make sense and I guess it's the case here...
> >
> > So do we want to use GConf2-dbus like we did for update1, or are we ok
> > to stick with plain old GConf2 in 8.2?
> 
> I'm not sure. The reason people didn't want plain GConf in the build
> was the ORBit dependency. Now I'm not sure if the problem there was
> disk space, memory or what else. I guess we should measure... Or we
> can ask Jim, I think he was one of the ORBit haters :)
> 
> Marco
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Re: OFW sad face doesn't say why

[C. Scott Ananian]

On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 9:36 PM, John Gilmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> security wizard at OLPC removed that recommendation from the Wiki
> page, thus leading to your current troubles.

If Mikus had followed your suggestion, we would not have found this
(legitimate) bug.  Thank you, Mikus.

> It's sad watching a good team continue idiotic wrestling with how much
> cost, trouble, fragility and end-user hassle they can insert into a
> system that's required by its software licenses and its own philosophy
> to be wide open to alteration by its users.

John, I always appreciate your "loyal opposition", but I wish you
would be a little more understanding that OLPC's country clients
*insist* on having a theft-deterrence system in place.  We are doing
our best to provide this while maintaining an open system.
Constructive advice toward this end is always welcome.

> I went to the olpc-sf physical meeting today, and tried to help a
> woman update her XO to something later than the G1G1 650 that she
> received in January.  Someone had showed her "yum update" but that
> didn't actually improve anything in the UI or activities.  She was at
> the level that's having trouble remembering to put the space in
> between "su" and "-l".  I absolutely failed to upgrade her -- I
> couldn't use any automated means like olpc-update, because it required
> the (%&*$&[EMAIL PROTECTED](@ USB-only activity upgrade, and it isn't 
> documented
> what release number you can safely feed the damn thing if you don't
> have an Activity upgrade pack handy.  I followed all the instructions
> on the Activity upgrade pack, and it failed on me (the un-debuggable
> "secure" update script failed to mount my USB stick and panicked, even
> though in a normal boot, the Journal mounts the same stick as
> /dev/sda1.  Hasn't the author heard of the Python "try" statement?).
> Result: She's still running 650, and we'll chat again in a month at
> the next olpc-sf meeting.

olpc-update 656.  That does not require upgraded activities.

The forthcoming 8.2 release will provide for automatic upgrade of
activities to match; that was a feature left out of 8.1 due to time
constraints, and I sympathize.

I'd appreciate more details on your failure to upgrade.  Both Michael
and I know of the try statement, but it's not clear which of our codes
failed you.  Maybe it was OFW, and in that case I assure you that
forth has its own equivalent of the try statement, and that Mitch uses
it.

The 'secure' update script (whichever one you are referring to, it's
not clear) is, in fact, debuggable.  Mitch, Michael, and I do so
regularly.  Again, with a little more information on your troubles I'd
be happy to help you figure out what's going on.

> Morals: don't assume that your Wiki readers know anything more than the
> English language (or their native language).  And don't make five
> different ways to upgrade your *(%&*%&^$ product, each of which only
> does a third of the job and either depends upon or wipes out what the
> other ones do.

I try to use olpc-update for everything, but unfortunately our users
have many different use cases, and one tool does not seem sufficient
for all uses.  The one thing olpc-update doesn't do is "one touch"
upgrades; if someone can give me a good design, I'd be willing to
address that.  But there will likely always be at least two upgrade
mechanisms: olpc-update if you've got a functioning system to start
with, and in bad situtations OFW for a 'clean start' that depends on
as little else as possible.
  --scott

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Re: gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus

[Marco Pesenti Gritti]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Daniel Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 19:00 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
>> > I guess GConf2-dbus provides an equivalent interface to the GConf2
>> > package and hence is a drop-in replacement.
>>
>> Oh ok, that make sense and I guess it's the case here...
>
> So do we want to use GConf2-dbus like we did for update1, or are we ok
> to stick with plain old GConf2 in 8.2?

I'm not sure. The reason people didn't want plain GConf in the build
was the ORBit dependency. Now I'm not sure if the problem there was
disk space, memory or what else. I guess we should measure... Or we
can ask Jim, I think he was one of the ORBit haters :)

Marco
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Re: gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus

[Daniel Drake]

On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 19:00 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
> > I guess GConf2-dbus provides an equivalent interface to the GConf2
> > package and hence is a drop-in replacement.
> 
> Oh ok, that make sense and I guess it's the case here...

So do we want to use GConf2-dbus like we did for update1, or are we ok
to stick with plain old GConf2 in 8.2?


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Re: gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus

[Marco Pesenti Gritti]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 6:56 PM, Daniel Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 19:54 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
>> In update.1 we shipped the DBus version of gnome-vfs2 (Nokia patches)
>> which didn't bring ORBit in. I'm not sure if that's still the case in
>> joyride.
>
> I looked at the OLPC-2 gnome-vfs2 spec file and I don't see what you
> mean here. The only obvious difference is that we changed the GConf
> requires to GConf2-dbus. Did you mean GConf here?
>
> I guess GConf2-dbus provides an equivalent interface to the GConf2
> package and hence is a drop-in replacement.

Oh ok, that make sense and I guess it's the case here...

marco
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gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus

[Daniel Drake]

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 19:54 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
> In update.1 we shipped the DBus version of gnome-vfs2 (Nokia patches)
> which didn't bring ORBit in. I'm not sure if that's still the case in
> joyride.

I looked at the OLPC-2 gnome-vfs2 spec file and I don't see what you
mean here. The only obvious difference is that we changed the GConf
requires to GConf2-dbus. Did you mean GConf here?

I guess GConf2-dbus provides an equivalent interface to the GConf2
package and hence is a drop-in replacement. Do we want do to the same
for 8.2?

ORBit2 is shipped in update1 and 8.2 as well. Switching to GConf2-dbus
won't cause it to go away since it is needed by gnome-python2-gnomevfs.

Thanks,
Daniel


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Re: NAND out of space crash

[Jim Gettys]

There are two issues here that we should be sure to not intertwingle:

1) whatever behavior Sugar may have when low/out of space, during
operation, or at boot time.

2) JFFS2's behavior when the file system is almost full.  When it gets
almost full, it can spend all its time trying to garbage collect, and
you can lose completely (the system sort of gets the "slows", and grinds
to a halt).

As to 2), there are patches done by Nokia (deployed on the N800 and
similar devices) that reserve some extra space and report out of space
before the system "gets the slows".  These are in Dave's incoming queue
to merge into JFFS2 the last I heard.  I don't know if he's merged them.
- Jim




On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 13:45 -0300, John Watlington wrote:
> I think this is a huge problem.   Here in Uruguay they are seeing
> a flood of machines with this problem, and it will only get worse
> over time (and we will encounter this in every other deployment
> soon.)
> 
> They desperately need a fix...
> 
> wad
> 
> On Jul 21, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Greg Smith wrote:
> 
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I found http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/7125 which looks like a good  
> > place
> > to track this problem.
> >
> > I marked it blocker for 8.2.0.
> >
> > Here's what I think we need:
> > - Sugar GUI always starts, no matter how much space is free on the  
> > NAND.
> > - If Sugar starts and you are low on space (exact size tbd) then we
> > should alert the user to start clearing space in the journal.
> >
> > I think Eben will work on the second part. Can someone solve the first
> > part?
> >
> > Suggested steps would be to propose a solution, get buy in, code it  
> > and
> > check it in.
> >
> > I shouldn't have mentioned partitioning :-( All I meant was that we
> > cannot solve this on upgrade by whacking all user data.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Greg S
> >
> >> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 12:39:04 -0400
> >> From: Erik Garrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Subject: Re: NAND out of space crash (was Display warnings in sugar
> >>(Emiliano Pastorino))
> >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Cc: devel@lists.laptop.org
> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 11:47:21AM -0400, Greg Smith wrote:
> >>> Hi All,
> >>>
> >>> Emiliano has an elegant workaround but crashing the XO on NAND  
> >>> full (to
> >>> un-recoverable state?) is a heinous bug that affects essentially  
> >>> all users.
> >>>
> >>> If someone has the bug ID handy can you send it out and mark it a
> >>> blocker for 8.2.0 (priority = blocker and keyword includes blocks: 
> >>> 8.2.0)?
> >>>
> >>> Can I get a design proposal (no re-partitioning please!), scoping  
> >>> and
> >>> lead engineer on it ASAP?
> >>>
> >>> If you have to stop working on something else to do this, let me  
> >>> know
> >>> what will drop and I'll help weigh the consequences.
> >>
> >> My impression is that the long-term benefits of partitioning mean  
> >> that
> >> it's worthwhile to devote effort to it.  Are we not going to work on
> >> partitioning in the future?
> >>
> >> In addition to a more solid solution to the NAND fillup issue, we get
> >> the opportunity to improve system performance and upgrade procedures.
> >> Partitioning will allow us to test out LZO data compression for  
> >> the XO's
> >> filesystems (excluding /boot and /security).  We would expect a
> >> significant i/o performance boost from the use of LZO.  Additionally,
> >> partitioning would improve OFW-level system updates (e.g. copy- 
> >> nand) by
> >> making it far simpler for the update procedure to leave user data
> >> intact.
> >>
> >> That said there are obviously a lot of troubles with partitioning.
> >> Updating an existing system to a partitioned one without mashing user
> >> data is a major issue.
> >>
> >> Erik
> >>
> >>
> > ___
> > Devel mailing list
> > Devel@lists.laptop.org
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
> 
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Re: NAND out of space crash

[John Watlington]

I think this is a huge problem.   Here in Uruguay they are seeing
a flood of machines with this problem, and it will only get worse
over time (and we will encounter this in every other deployment
soon.)

They desperately need a fix...

wad

On Jul 21, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Greg Smith wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I found http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/7125 which looks like a good  
> place
> to track this problem.
>
> I marked it blocker for 8.2.0.
>
> Here's what I think we need:
> - Sugar GUI always starts, no matter how much space is free on the  
> NAND.
> - If Sugar starts and you are low on space (exact size tbd) then we
> should alert the user to start clearing space in the journal.
>
> I think Eben will work on the second part. Can someone solve the first
> part?
>
> Suggested steps would be to propose a solution, get buy in, code it  
> and
> check it in.
>
> I shouldn't have mentioned partitioning :-( All I meant was that we
> cannot solve this on upgrade by whacking all user data.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg S
>
>> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 12:39:04 -0400
>> From: Erik Garrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Subject: Re: NAND out of space crash (was Display warnings in sugar
>>  (Emiliano Pastorino))
>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Cc: devel@lists.laptop.org
>> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 11:47:21AM -0400, Greg Smith wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Emiliano has an elegant workaround but crashing the XO on NAND  
>>> full (to
>>> un-recoverable state?) is a heinous bug that affects essentially  
>>> all users.
>>>
>>> If someone has the bug ID handy can you send it out and mark it a
>>> blocker for 8.2.0 (priority = blocker and keyword includes blocks: 
>>> 8.2.0)?
>>>
>>> Can I get a design proposal (no re-partitioning please!), scoping  
>>> and
>>> lead engineer on it ASAP?
>>>
>>> If you have to stop working on something else to do this, let me  
>>> know
>>> what will drop and I'll help weigh the consequences.
>>
>> My impression is that the long-term benefits of partitioning mean  
>> that
>> it's worthwhile to devote effort to it.  Are we not going to work on
>> partitioning in the future?
>>
>> In addition to a more solid solution to the NAND fillup issue, we get
>> the opportunity to improve system performance and upgrade procedures.
>> Partitioning will allow us to test out LZO data compression for  
>> the XO's
>> filesystems (excluding /boot and /security).  We would expect a
>> significant i/o performance boost from the use of LZO.  Additionally,
>> partitioning would improve OFW-level system updates (e.g. copy- 
>> nand) by
>> making it far simpler for the update procedure to leave user data
>> intact.
>>
>> That said there are obviously a lot of troubles with partitioning.
>> Updating an existing system to a partitioned one without mashing user
>> data is a major issue.
>>
>> Erik
>>
>>
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Re: NAND out of space crash

[Erik Garrison]

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:55:52AM -0400, Greg Smith wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I found http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/7125 which looks like a good place 
> to track this problem.
> 
> I marked it blocker for 8.2.0.
> 
> Here's what I think we need:
> - Sugar GUI always starts, no matter how much space is free on the NAND.
> - If Sugar starts and you are low on space (exact size tbd) then we 
> should alert the user to start clearing space in the journal.
> 
> I think Eben will work on the second part. Can someone solve the first 
> part?
> 
> Suggested steps would be to propose a solution, get buy in, code it and 
> check it in.
> 
> I shouldn't have mentioned partitioning :-( All I meant was that we 
> cannot solve this on upgrade by whacking all user data.

Yes.  Moving from unpartitioned -> partitioned poses an update problem.
To implement a partition update we may be reduced to copying user data
to a USB key during the update cycle.  This is complex and not a good
immediate solution to the NAND fillup problem.
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Re: NAND out of space crash

[Greg Smith]

Hi All,

I found http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/7125 which looks like a good place 
to track this problem.

I marked it blocker for 8.2.0.

Here's what I think we need:
- Sugar GUI always starts, no matter how much space is free on the NAND.
- If Sugar starts and you are low on space (exact size tbd) then we 
should alert the user to start clearing space in the journal.

I think Eben will work on the second part. Can someone solve the first 
part?

Suggested steps would be to propose a solution, get buy in, code it and 
check it in.

I shouldn't have mentioned partitioning :-( All I meant was that we 
cannot solve this on upgrade by whacking all user data.

Thanks,

Greg S

> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 12:39:04 -0400
> From: Erik Garrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: NAND out of space crash (was Display warnings in sugar
>   (Emiliano Pastorino))
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: devel@lists.laptop.org
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 11:47:21AM -0400, Greg Smith wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Emiliano has an elegant workaround but crashing the XO on NAND full (to 
>> un-recoverable state?) is a heinous bug that affects essentially all users.
>>
>> If someone has the bug ID handy can you send it out and mark it a 
>> blocker for 8.2.0 (priority = blocker and keyword includes blocks:8.2.0)?
>>
>> Can I get a design proposal (no re-partitioning please!), scoping and 
>> lead engineer on it ASAP?
>>
>> If you have to stop working on something else to do this, let me know 
>> what will drop and I'll help weigh the consequences.
> 
> My impression is that the long-term benefits of partitioning mean that
> it's worthwhile to devote effort to it.  Are we not going to work on
> partitioning in the future?
> 
> In addition to a more solid solution to the NAND fillup issue, we get
> the opportunity to improve system performance and upgrade procedures.
> Partitioning will allow us to test out LZO data compression for the XO's
> filesystems (excluding /boot and /security).  We would expect a
> significant i/o performance boost from the use of LZO.  Additionally,
> partitioning would improve OFW-level system updates (e.g. copy-nand) by
> making it far simpler for the update procedure to leave user data
> intact.
> 
> That said there are obviously a lot of troubles with partitioning.
> Updating an existing system to a partitioned one without mashing user
> data is a major issue.
> 
> Erik
> 
> 
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Re: [sugar] Autosave in 8.2.0?

[Bert Freudenberg]

Am 20.07.2008 um 08:59 schrieb Marco Pesenti Gritti:

> On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Bert Freudenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>> Thanks for not answering,
>
> Hmm? Both Tomeu and me answered.
>
> http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-July/016914.html
> http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-July/016951.html

I see. Thanks - I have to check my email setup :/

>> and not updating the API doc,
>
> The time I can devote to OLPC is *very* limited these days and I had
> no time until today to even check this API was working properly... I
> just finished up the python Activity bits and I have a patch up for
> review. I will try to update the doc on monday.
>
>> and me having
>> to dig through Sugar patches to find out how this works.
>>
>> I updated the doc:
>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Low-level_Activity_API#D-Bus_Methods
>> ===
>>   org.laptop.Activity.SyncData()
>>   Called when the laptop is about to shutdown, reboot, or  
>> suspend. The
>> activity must save its state in the datastore.
>> ===
>> Apparently this does not send a reason for having to sync - IMHO
>> suspend is not as severe a reason as impending shutdown/reboot so an
>> activity might want to choose to not save on suspend if suspends are
>> as frequent as we anticipate.
>
> This code never went in actually... See the mails I referenced.


Okay. Thanks and apologies.

- Bert -


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Re: [sugar] Autosave in 8.2.0?

[Bert Freudenberg]

Am 20.07.2008 um 12:27 schrieb Tomeu Vizoso:

> On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Bert Freudenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>> Am 17.07.2008 um 07:37 schrieb Bert Freudenberg:
>>
>>> Am 17.07.2008 um 00:10 schrieb Tomeu Vizoso:
>>>
 Marco has added a session manager to Sugar (in 8.2.0) that takes  
 care
 of telling activities to save their work because the system is  
 being
 shut down. Haven't verified if this is complete and working. Have
 you,
 Marco? If so, this would also take care of the case where kids shut
 down before closing all running activities first.
>>>
>>>
>>> How does this work from an activity's pov?
>>>
>>> - Bert -
>>
>>
>> Thanks for not answering, and not updating the API doc, and me having
>> to dig through Sugar patches to find out how this works.
>
> Bert, you should know better than others how things are here. We
> cannot manage to do the things we know that must be done, much less we
> can do those properly. If I was in any regular job, I would limit
> myself to do what I can, and do it right. Here we just cannot behave
> like that.
>
> You are right to be frustrated by this situation, but please don't ask
> us to do more than what is in our hands. If you know anyone who would
> like to join us in this craziness, please point them to
> http://www.laptop.org/en/jobs.shtml .


I apologize, I was particularly frustrated when I sent this.

- Bert -


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Fwd: Announcing the Fedora OLPC Special Interest Group

[Daniel Drake]

Forwarding again without the annoying attachment style

 Forwarded Message 
From: Greg Dekoenigsberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Development discussions related to Fedora
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Announcing the Fedora OLPC Special Interest Group
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:36:08 -0400 (EDT)

I've already sent this note to a bunch of lists, but this is the list that 
really counts.  You folks are the ones who will make or break this effort. 
Much of the work that lies before us is exactly the kind of work that all 
of you have been doing for years now.

So please, join up.  We could really use the help.  Those of you whom I 
know personally, I will be begging for your help off-list in a somewhat 
less dignified manner.  ;)

* * *

The engineers at OLPC are busy building an educational experience for the kids 
of the world.  They are basing their excellent work on Fedora.

Their time is stretched perilously thin.  Every hour an overworked OLPC 
engineer spends doing Fedora work is an hour they could be spending doing 
something else.  We in the Fedora community can therefore have a huge, direct, 
and immediate impact on the success of the OLPC project.

Thus, I am proud to announce the formation of the Fedora OLPC Special Interest 
Group.  Our mission: to provide the OLPC project with a strong, sustainable, 
scalable, community-driven base platform for innovation.

Immediate Goals:

1. To identify and take responsible ownership of as many OLPC base packages as 
possible.

2. To maintain an excellent Sugar environment for Fedora, including a dedicated 
Sugar spin.

3. To identify useful opportunities for collaboration (infrastructure, 
localization, etc.)

We should convene our first meeting as soon as possible.  If you are interested 
in participating, please join the Fedora OLPC mailing list here and introduce 
yourself:

https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-olpc-list

--g


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Fwd: Announcing the Fedora OLPC Special Interest Group

[Daniel Drake]

Greg rocks!

--- Begin Message ---


I've already sent this note to a bunch of lists, but this is the list that 
really counts.  You folks are the ones who will make or break this effort. 
Much of the work that lies before us is exactly the kind of work that all 
of you have been doing for years now.


So please, join up.  We could really use the help.  Those of you whom I 
know personally, I will be begging for your help off-list in a somewhat 
less dignified manner.  ;)


* * *

The engineers at OLPC are busy building an educational experience for the kids 
of the world.  They are basing their excellent work on Fedora.


Their time is stretched perilously thin.  Every hour an overworked OLPC 
engineer spends doing Fedora work is an hour they could be spending doing 
something else.  We in the Fedora community can therefore have a huge, direct, 
and immediate impact on the success of the OLPC project.


Thus, I am proud to announce the formation of the Fedora OLPC Special Interest 
Group.  Our mission: to provide the OLPC project with a strong, sustainable, 
scalable, community-driven base platform for innovation.


Immediate Goals:

1. To identify and take responsible ownership of as many OLPC base packages as 
possible.


2. To maintain an excellent Sugar environment for Fedora, including a dedicated 
Sugar spin.


3. To identify useful opportunities for collaboration (infrastructure, 
localization, etc.)


We should convene our first meeting as soon as possible.  If you are interested 
in participating, please join the Fedora OLPC mailing list here and introduce 
yourself:


https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-olpc-list

--g

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Report on `switching between activities and the journal'

[riccardo]

Hi,

Problem: switching between activities and the journal is slow

Test-case: the test consist of starting Write and switching between it
and the journal for a sensible amount of time. All tests were run on a
xo; the journal had 50 entries. Switching was automated by calling
shell.activate_next_activity() every ~730ms (as the minimum value at
which both activities could get completely redrawn).

Real transition timings differ from the timer's period value of 730ms.
The `switch' journal -> write takes an average of 735ms while the
transition write -> journal takes values from 1 to 2 seconds.

During the test, activate_next_activity() in Shell.py was called 695
times.

cpu usage data gathered with Picker (pid 2564 is the Write activity):
tot% ps% cmdline
---
 34.6 python /usr/bin/sugar-activity journalactivity ...
57.1 22.6 python /usr/sbin/rainbow-daemon --daemon ...   [Write]
77.9 20.8 python /usr/bin/datastore-service
85.0 7.2  python /usr/bin/sugar-shell
91.5 6.5  /usr/bin/X :0 -fp built-ins -wr -auth ...
97.1 5.6  picker

(http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/ActivitiesSwitching/journal-write/picker.stats)
http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/ActivitiesSwitching/journal-write/picker.stats.svg

They were obtained by running:
$ picker
$ grapher -c6 -r cpu


The 22.6% took by Write is due to the activity saving and loading its
state (taking screnshots, reading/writing files..) regardless it change
or not (http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-July/016722.html).

The shell is taking the 7% of cpu-time; isn't it too much for this task?



cProfile statistics (KCacheGrind format) for the journal:
http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/ActivitiesSwitching/journal-write/cProfile-journalactivity

The journal spends 69.4% of it's time in __refresh_idle_cb in
listview.py.

Ordering by function self-time:
29.7 : send_message_with_reply_and_block of dbus
15.7 : gtk.main()
10.9 : __init__ in activities/Journal.activity/palettes.py (2211 calls)
3.7  : cairo.Context.paint()
3.3  : __init__ sugar/graphics/palette.py

Asynchronous dbus calls ? Perhaps icons and palettes could be cached ?



cProfile statistics (KCacheGrind format) for Write:
http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/ActivitiesSwitching/journal-write/cProfile-write

Similar results were already commented at
http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-July/016722.html for a
similar task.



cProfile statistics (KCacheGrind format) for the datastore-service
aren't much interesting this time (a separate test case should be
designed for it):
http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/ActivitiesSwitching/journal-write/cProfile-datastore



cProfile statistics (KCacheGrind format) for sugar-shell:
http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/ActivitiesSwitching/journal-write/cProfile-shell

51.3% of time in the shell is going to send_message_with_reply_and_block
of dbus. I guess this is because of the calls to the activities's
services; maybe some of them can be made asynchronous ?

Other functions showing particularly up by self-time are:
20.8 : gtk.main()
4.1  : __init_ in sugar/graphics/icon.py (1509 calls)
2.9  : wnck.Window.activate()
2.1  : __init_ in sugar/graphics/palette.py (859 calls)

Perhaps icons and palettes could be cached ?



sysprof statistics:
http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/ActivitiesSwitching/journal-write/sysprof.data

Similar results were already commented at
http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-July/016722.html for a
similar task.

Only one more thing I note particularly:
1. Python is spending a lot of time in the kernel.
   Too much reading/writing to the nand ?


thanks,
riccardo

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Re: OFW sad face doesn't say why

[Ivan Krstić]

On Jul 21, 2008, at 8:38 AM, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
> Sorry, but that's untrue, unless your definition of "nothing else" is
> "political stuff".

My definition of "nothing else" is "nothing else relevant to the claim  
the poster was making". John was quite aware of the changes to the  
"political stuff", we discussed them, I stand behind them, and I  
clearly wasn't trying to hide anything from anyone given that I linked  
to the URL.

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Re: OFW sad face doesn't say why

[Carl-Daniel Hailfinger]

On 21.07.2008 11:53, Ivan Krstić wrote:
> On Jul 19, 2008, at 9:36 PM, John Gilmore wrote:
>   
>> But a certain former
>> security wizard at OLPC removed that recommendation from the Wiki
>> page, thus leading to your current troubles.
>> 
>
> This is untrue; please support your claims with diffs. As per:
>
>   
>  >
>
> I removed the line 23 suggestion for one to immediately _get_ their  
> devkey, nothing else.
>   

Sorry, but that's untrue, unless your definition of "nothing else" is
"political stuff". That very changeset made by you also had political
edits. I would have fallen for your claim if you had not linked to the
changeset which disproves it. If there was any other context attached to
"nothing else", you failed to make that clear. (And as a security guru,
leaving ambiguities is not exactly good practice.)


Regards,
Carl-Daniel

-- 
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Re: PlayGo Patches/Commit access

[Bastien]

Hi Andrés!

I'm also a Go player and I'd really love to see this activity improve.

Is it already possible to share this activity so that children can play
together from two different XOs?  I was unable to get this working when
I last tried.  If this is not possible yet, I think this should be a top
priority, more than making it possible to play against GnuGo.

As for requests about getting commit access, I thought each activity had
a maintainer with its email well advertized, but this is not the case.

The maintainer's email could appear either on the activity wiki page
and/or in the git repository.  Sadly enough, there is no such contact
information neither on http://wiki.laptop.org/go/PlayGo nor in the git
repo: http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/PlayGo;a=summary (there is
only "Gerard J. Cerchio" as a name...)

Another good place to find the name of the maintainer would be
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities

In other git repos, the "Owner" is often an email, which makes it
straightforward for anyone to jump into a project.  See for example
http://repo.or.cz/

In gitorious.org or github.com, you can send messages to the owner:

  http://gitorious.org/projects/basecms
  http://github.com/agnathan/odf2logos/tree/master

Looking forward to kibbitzing with people around here...

-- 
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joyride builds failing due to insufficient space

[Tomeu Vizoso]

Hi,

  sugar - 0.81.6-4.20080715git8137d5c37f.fc9.i386: Insufficient space
in download directory
/home/cscott/public_html/xo-1/streams/joyride/build2187-20080720_2235/devel_jffs2/install_root/var/cache/yum/olpc_development/packages
to download

Regards,

Tomeu
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Re: OFW sad face doesn't say why

[Ivan Krstić]

On Jul 19, 2008, at 9:36 PM, John Gilmore wrote:
> But a certain former
> security wizard at OLPC removed that recommendation from the Wiki
> page, thus leading to your current troubles.

This is untrue; please support your claims with diffs. As per:



I removed the line 23 suggestion for one to immediately _get_ their  
devkey, nothing else.

--
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