Re: What to I have to do....

On 12 Dec 2017, at 2:44 PM, Philip Kovacs wrote: > > >Artistic (volatile) temperament” is just a euphemistic way of saying > >“engages in unchecked abusive behaviour toward their peers”, and no member > >of the community should be expected to bend over backwards to >tolerate

Re: What to I have to do....

>Artistic (volatile) temperament” is just a euphemistic way of saying “engages >in unchecked abusive behaviour toward their peers”, and no member of the >community should be expected to bend over backwards to >tolerate this or to >turn a blind eye to it. You completely, utterly and totally

Re: What to I have to do....

On 09 Dec 2017, at 8:21 PM, Philip Kovacs wrote: > I am opposed to allowing PP unfettered access to projects in which the > maintainer(s) > are responsive. It's common for developers to have artistic (volatile) > temperaments , > like a painter who paints on canvas owned

Re: What to I have to do....

On Sun, 10 Dec 2017, Graham Leggett wrote: > In this case, we have the needs of the Fedora project (this > change) stacked up against your needs (your reluctance to > perform a task). This line of argument is a 'straw man' as are several other rationalizations advanced for NOT giving

Re: What to I have to do....

Dne 8.12.2017 v 18:33 Adam Williamson napsal(a): > How long will it be before you can get the modernization/cleanup > finished? You're going to be sitting there waiting for 50 people to > respond to pull requests, A week? And only then do the change directly? Sometimes the maintainers have a

Re: Removing old cruft, e.g. Provides: systemd-units (was Re: What to I have to do....)

On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 4:28 AM, Igor Gnatenko < ignatenkobr...@fedoraproject.org> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA256 > > After reading all responses in thread which is mentioned in subject I > think we > need to develop some policies / procedures how to deal with old

Re: What to I have to do....

On 07 Dec 2017, at 5:31 PM, Steve Dickson wrote: > Where committed to the master branch and not to any other > branch make the maintenance of those branches a pain > because I can no longer cherry-pick between branches. > I have to make multiple commits to multiple branches >

Removing old cruft, e.g. Provides: systemd-units (was Re: What to I have to do....)

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 After reading all responses in thread which is mentioned in subject I think we need to develop some policies / procedures how to deal with old cruft, for example: - - Requires: systemd-units - - Requires: /bin/mktemp Former has changed to systemd

Re: What to I have to do....

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 08:40 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > Hey, > > On 12/07/2017 02:31 PM, Florian Weimer wrote: > > On 12/07/2017 04:31 PM, Steve Dickson wrote: > > > Where committed to the master branch and not to any other > > > branch make the

Re: What to I have to do....

On Sat, Dec 09, 2017 at 09:10:13PM +, Philip Kovacs wrote: > It's just simple human courtesy. A good analogy is saying "Hello" when you meet somebody on the street. You live in a village and it's unthinkable not do it. Then you move to a small town and everybody still does, except when it's

Re: What to I have to do....

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On Thu, 2017-12-07 at 10:31 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > Hello, > > What do I have to do to stop random people > from making random changes to packages I maintain? > > How do people get this type of permission? > > Case in point; > > commit

Re: What to I have to do....

>I deeply believe that such maintainers and such packages as you >describe must become a thing of a past.  For the moment, until your new world >order arrives, packages are maintained by people of all types volunteering >their time and effort.  These are people who will probably never even hear

Re: What to I have to do....

On Sat, Dec 09, 2017 at 06:26:28PM +, Philip Kovacs wrote: > s/do want/do NOT want > > On Saturday, December 9, 2017 1:21 PM, Philip Kovacs > wrote: > > > I am opposed to allowing PP unfettered access to projects in which > the maintainer(s) are responsive. 

Re: What to I have to do....

s/do want/do NOT want On Saturday, December 9, 2017 1:21 PM, Philip Kovacs wrote: I am opposed to allowing PP unfettered access to projects in which the maintainer(s) are responsive.  It's common for developers to have artistic (volatile) temperaments , like a

Re: What to I have to do....

I am opposed to allowing PP unfettered access to projects in which the maintainer(s) are responsive.  It's common for developers to have artistic (volatile) temperaments , like a painter who paints on canvas owned by someone else.  Does the owner have the right to change the color jars? 

Re: What to I have to do....

On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 08:30:20PM +0100, Matthias Runge wrote: > Now this has gone back and forth. The system worked more or less ok. > Maybe it is more about the changes (and communication) of a > specific provenpackager? After sleeping a night over this, I should have put it in different

Re: What to I have to do....

On 12/08/2017 06:48 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 10:45 -0600, Michael Cronenworth wrote: On 12/08/2017 10:40 AM, Steve Dickson wrote: You are telling me there hundreds of people that have complete control over all the packages in fedora with no boundaries??? They can do

Re: What to I have to do....

On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 11:46:03AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > > > On 12/08/2017 11:21 AM, Charalampos Stratakis wrote: > > The kernel is actually blacklisted from proven packager access, you can't > > make changes there. > This is good to know... how do you get on that list? ;-) > > > >

Re: What to I have to do....

On 12/08/2017 12:33 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 12:01 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: >> Then on the other hand I get these pull-requests that >> work so well! >> >> So I just don't understand why for non-massive changes >> why is it not required to go through the

Re: What to I have to do....

On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 10:45 -0600, Michael Cronenworth wrote: > On 12/08/2017 10:40 AM, Steve Dickson wrote: > > You are telling me there hundreds of people that have complete > > control over all the packages in fedora with no boundaries??? > > They can do anything they what??? Wow... > > Not

Re: What to I have to do....

On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 12:11 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > > On 12/08/2017 11:54 AM, Simo Sorce wrote: > > On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 11:40 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > > > > > > On 12/08/2017 11:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > > > Well, I'd say this works great. There's maybe a hundred

Re: What to I have to do....

On 12/08/2017 08:33 AM, Pierre-Yves Chibon wrote: > On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 11:21:10AM -0500, Charalampos Stratakis wrote: >> - Original Message - Unless you want to say that the change is somehow wrong, please don't say that "poeple [...] are clueless", because that's

Re: What to I have to do....

On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Pierre-Yves Chibon wrote: > On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 11:21:10AM -0500, Charalampos Stratakis wrote: >> - Original Message - >> > > Unless you want to say that the change is somehow wrong, please >> > > don't say that "poeple [...] are

Re: What to I have to do....

On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 12:01 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > Then on the other hand I get these pull-requests that > work so well! > > So I just don't understand why for non-massive changes > why is it not required to go through the pull-request > process? There is a pedestrian reason, which

Re: What to I have to do....

On Friday, 08 December 2017 at 18:07, Steve Dickson wrote: [...] > > A proven packager is not someone random, they were given access > > based on various criteria and that IMHO includes the fact that > > their perception or "feels" about what has to be done on other > > people's packages, is

Re: What to I have to do....

* Steve Dickson [08/12/2017 12:11] : > > But if it is non-massive, non-critical shouldn't the maintainer be notified? If it's trivial, I'm ok with being informed via fedmsg telling me a commit has been made. In this case, this was a trivial fix that the maintainer should have done years ago so I

Re: What to I have to do....

On 12/08/2017 12:10 PM, Mathieu Bridon wrote: > On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 12:01 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: >> On 12/08/2017 11:46 AM, Mathieu Bridon wrote: >>> You're blowing this way out of proportion, as if this was a >>> catastrophe. History shows that it isn't. >> >> Maybe I am... Would not be

Re: What to I have to do....

On 12/08/2017 11:54 AM, Simo Sorce wrote: > On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 11:40 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: >> >> On 12/08/2017 11:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: >>> Well, I'd say this works great. There's maybe a hundred or two hundred >>> proven packagers and somehow none of them decide to

Re: What to I have to do....

On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 12:01 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > On 12/08/2017 11:46 AM, Mathieu Bridon wrote: > > You're blowing this way out of proportion, as if this was a > > catastrophe. History shows that it isn't. > > Maybe I am... Would not be the first time! ;-) > > In last couple of months

Re: What to I have to do....

On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 11:52:21AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > > > On 12/08/2017 11:28 AM, Kalev Lember wrote: > > On 12/08/2017 05:17 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 10:59:20AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> On 12/08/2017 10:12 AM, Zbigniew

Re: What to I have to do....

Charalampos Stratakis" >> <cstra...@redhat.com> >> Cc: "Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek" <zbys...@in.waw.pl>, "Yaakov Selkowitz" >> <yselk...@redhat.com> >> Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 5:46:03 PM >> Subject: Re: What to I have to d

Re: What to I have to do....

On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 10:45:47AM -0600, Michael Cronenworth wrote: > On 12/08/2017 10:40 AM, Steve Dickson wrote: > >You are telling me there hundreds of people that have complete > >control over all the packages in fedora with no boundaries??? > >They can do anything they what??? Wow... > >

Re: What to I have to do....

On 12/08/2017 11:46 AM, Mathieu Bridon wrote: > On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 11:40 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: >> >> On 12/08/2017 11:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: >>> Well, I'd say this works great. There's maybe a hundred or two >>> hundred proven packagers and somehow none of them decide

Re: What to I have to do....

ędrzejewski-Szmek" <zbys...@in.waw.pl>, "Yaakov Selkowitz" > <yselk...@redhat.com> > Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 5:46:03 PM > Subject: Re: What to I have to do > > > > On 12/08/2017 11:21 AM, Charalampos Stratakis wrote: > > The kernel i

Re: What to I have to do....

On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 11:40 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > > On 12/08/2017 11:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > Well, I'd say this works great. There's maybe a hundred or two hundred > > proven packagers and somehow none of them decide to mess up the kernel > > any day. In fact, the

Re: What to I have to do....

On 8 December 2017 at 11:40, Steve Dickson wrote: > > > On 12/08/2017 11:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: >> Well, I'd say this works great. There's maybe a hundred or two hundred >> proven packagers and somehow none of them decide to mess up the kernel >> any day. In

Re: What to I have to do....

On 12/08/2017 11:28 AM, Kalev Lember wrote: > On 12/08/2017 05:17 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: >> On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 10:59:20AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 12/08/2017 10:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: How would the overhead be lower? Instead of a

Re: What to I have to do....

On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 11:40 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > > On 12/08/2017 11:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > Well, I'd say this works great. There's maybe a hundred or two > > hundred proven packagers and somehow none of them decide to mess up > > the kernel any day. In fact, the

Re: What to I have to do....

On 12/08/2017 11:21 AM, Charalampos Stratakis wrote: > The kernel is actually blacklisted from proven packager access, you can't > make changes there. This is good to know... how do you get on that list? ;-) > > Apart from that though, I don't really see any reasons for creating this >

Re: What to I have to do....

On 12/08/2017 10:40 AM, Steve Dickson wrote: You are telling me there hundreds of people that have complete control over all the packages in fedora with no boundaries??? They can do anything they what??? Wow... Not really. There are a handful of packages that are protected. I tried to push a

Re: What to I have to do....

On 12/08/2017 11:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > Well, I'd say this works great. There's maybe a hundred or two hundred > proven packagers and somehow none of them decide to mess up the kernel > any day. In fact, the commits which caused this thread are _correct_: > so far I haven't

Re: What to I have to do....

On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 11:21:10AM -0500, Charalampos Stratakis wrote: > - Original Message - > > > Unless you want to say that the change is somehow wrong, please > > > don't say that "poeple [...] are clueless", because that's disingenuous. > > Fair enough... "clueless" was probably not

Re: What to I have to do....

On 12/08/2017 05:17 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 10:59:20AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: >> >> >> On 12/08/2017 10:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: >>> How would the overhead be lower? Instead of a single clean commit that >>> does what needs to be done

Re: What to I have to do....

witz" <yselk...@redhat.com> > Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 4:31:58 PM > Subject: Re: What to I have to do > > > > On 12/08/2017 10:07 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 08:31:44AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > &

Re: What to I have to do....

On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 09:14 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > > On 12/07/2017 06:13 PM, Sérgio Basto wrote: > > On Thu, 2017-12-07 at 10:31 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > What do I have to do to stop random people > > > from making random changes to packages I maintain? > > >

Re: What to I have to do....

On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 10:59:20AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > > > On 12/08/2017 10:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 09:14:35AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > >> > >> > >> On 12/07/2017 06:13 PM, Sérgio Basto wrote: > >>> On Thu, 2017-12-07 at 10:31 -0500,

Re: What to I have to do....

On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 10:31:58AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > > > On 12/08/2017 10:07 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 08:31:44AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > >> > >> > >> On 12/07/2017 02:18 PM, Yaakov Selkowitz wrote: > >>> On 2017-12-07 09:31, Steve

Re: What to I have to do....

On 12/08/2017 10:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 09:14:35AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: >> >> >> On 12/07/2017 06:13 PM, Sérgio Basto wrote: >>> On Thu, 2017-12-07 at 10:31 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: Hello, What do I have to do to stop random

Re: What to I have to do....

On 12/08/2017 10:07 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 08:31:44AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: >> >> >> On 12/07/2017 02:18 PM, Yaakov Selkowitz wrote: >>> On 2017-12-07 09:31, Steve Dickson wrote: What do I have to do to stop random people from making

Re: What to I have to do....

On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 09:14:35AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > > > On 12/07/2017 06:13 PM, Sérgio Basto wrote: > > On Thu, 2017-12-07 at 10:31 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > >> Hello, > >> > >> What do I have to do to stop random people > >> from making random changes to packages I maintain?

Re: What to I have to do....

On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 08:31:44AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > > > On 12/07/2017 02:18 PM, Yaakov Selkowitz wrote: > > On 2017-12-07 09:31, Steve Dickson wrote: > >> What do I have to do to stop random people > >> from making random changes to packages I maintain? > >> > >> How do people get

Re: What to I have to do....

On 12/07/2017 03:37 PM, R P Herrold wrote: > On Thu, 7 Dec 2017, Yaakov Selkowitz wrote: > >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Provenpackager_policy > >> These were properly announced: >> >>

Re: What to I have to do....

On 12/08/2017 09:00 AM, Florian Weimer wrote: > On 12/08/2017 02:40 PM, Steve Dickson wrote: >> Hey, >> >> On 12/07/2017 02:31 PM, Florian Weimer wrote: >>> On 12/07/2017 04:31 PM, Steve Dickson wrote: Where committed to the master branch and not to any other branch make the

Re: What to I have to do....

On 12/07/2017 06:13 PM, Sérgio Basto wrote: > On Thu, 2017-12-07 at 10:31 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: >> Hello, >> >> What do I have to do to stop random people >> from making random changes to packages I maintain? >> >> How do people get this type of permission? >> >> Case in point; >> >>

Re: What to I have to do....

On 12/08/2017 02:40 PM, Steve Dickson wrote: Hey, On 12/07/2017 02:31 PM, Florian Weimer wrote: On 12/07/2017 04:31 PM, Steve Dickson wrote: Where committed to the master branch and not to any other branch make the maintenance of those branches a pain because I can no longer cherry-pick

Re: What to I have to do....

On 12/07/2017 05:38 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Steve Dickson wrote: >> Where committed to the master branch and not to any other >> branch make the maintenance of those branches a pain >> because I can no longer cherry-pick between branches. >> I have to make multiple commits to multiple branches

Re: What to I have to do....

Hey, On 12/07/2017 03:49 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Thu, 2017-12-07 at 10:31 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > >> Where committed to the master branch and not to any other >> branch make the maintenance of those branches a pain >> because I can no longer cherry-pick between branches. >> I have

Re: What to I have to do....

Hey, On 12/07/2017 02:31 PM, Florian Weimer wrote: > On 12/07/2017 04:31 PM, Steve Dickson wrote: >> Where committed to the master branch and not to any other >> branch make the maintenance of those branches a pain >> because I can no longer cherry-pick between branches. > > Maybe you can

Re: What to I have to do....

On 12/07/2017 02:18 PM, Yaakov Selkowitz wrote: > On 2017-12-07 09:31, Steve Dickson wrote: >> What do I have to do to stop random people >> from making random changes to packages I maintain? >> >> How do people get this type of permission? > >

Re: What to I have to do....

On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 02:07:51AM +, Michael Cullen wrote: > > because I can no longer cherry-pick between branches. > > Not true at all - you’d be surprised how well git deals with cherry > picks across diverse branches. And even when it doesn’t there’s very > rarely anything in a spec file

Re: What to I have to do....

> because I can no longer cherry-pick between branches. Not true at all - you’d be surprised how well git deals with cherry picks across diverse branches. And even when it doesn’t there’s very rarely anything in a spec file that would be a difficult conflict to resolve. At work I often cherry

Re: What to I have to do....

On Thu, 2017-12-07 at 10:31 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > Hello, > > What do I have to do to stop random people > from making random changes to packages I maintain? > > How do people get this type of permission? > > Case in point; > > commit 358a8fff974f0e124527a3281c90fa04cb7c7a7f (HEAD ->

Re: What to I have to do....

Steve Dickson wrote: > Where committed to the master branch and not to any other > branch make the maintenance of those branches a pain > because I can no longer cherry-pick between branches. > I have to make multiple commits to multiple branches > which sucks... Something random people do not

Re: What to I have to do....

On Thu, 2017-12-07 at 10:31 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote: > Where committed to the master branch and not to any other > branch make the maintenance of those branches a pain > because I can no longer cherry-pick between branches. > I have to make multiple commits to multiple branches > which

Re: What to I have to do....

On Thu, 7 Dec 2017, Yaakov Selkowitz wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Provenpackager_policy > These were properly announced: > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/RJYQNLIWBAVQPGLIGUT77WGY5D4TK334/ >

Re: What to I have to do....

On 12/07/2017 04:31 PM, Steve Dickson wrote: Where committed to the master branch and not to any other branch make the maintenance of those branches a pain because I can no longer cherry-pick between branches. Maybe you can elaborate on how this causes problems for your development process,

Re: What to I have to do....

On 2017-12-07 09:31, Steve Dickson wrote: > What do I have to do to stop random people > from making random changes to packages I maintain? > > How do people get this type of permission? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Provenpackager_policy > Case in point; [snip] These were properly