Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Newbie feedback - Creating pages
> On 17 Oct 2016, at 14:32, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 2:50 PM, Vincent Massol wrote: > >> >>> On 17 Oct 2016, at 12:33, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Thanks for the detailed report. >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 11:30 AM, Vincent Massol >> wrote: >>> Hi devs, Over the weekend I asked my brother in law (who doesn’t anything about XWiki) to test it and give me some feedback. He did this test with me >> next to him so I could observe and ask him what was going through his head. I’m sending below a summary of the session. We now need to address each point and see what we want to do to improve the situation. The Setup * HSQLDB/Jetty already setup with an Admin user already logged in. >>> >>> It's because you had the credentials in the browser's cache. Otherwise we >>> ask for them. >> >> This was part of my setup for him. Not sure why you said “because”. There >> was no question nor problem here :) >> >>> * I had made the Admin user a simple user. >>> >>> XE-1580: Change the user type for the Admin user to 'simple' >>> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XE-1580 >> >> Again this was part of the setup I made so there was no problem about this. >> >> However we do have a problem of having the first user be an admin user >> (see the point about this in my report below), i.e. your first introduction >> to XWiki is as an admin user, meaning you get to see more options (admin >> page menu entry, global admin settings) which in this session caused >> several problems fpr him. >> >>> * I later realized that I had forgotten to remove my local cookie on my computer and he didn’t have the Tour. Thus I don’t know if he’d have >> read it till the end of not. * I asked him 2 things only: ** Create some new pages ** Modify the home page The Feedback === * First thing he wanted to do was to switch the UI to French (he’s French). He looked for his user profile, found it, and couldn’t find a >> way to change the language. Fail. I had to tell give him the hint that >> language was a global wiki-level setting and I had to do it for him. Other >> feedback: The French translation for the language settings is really not user-friendly and needs to be changed, it’s currently “Localisation”, >> which is too technical. >>> >>> XWIKI-6402: Separate Interface language and page language settings. >>> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 >> >> This one seems quite important for newcomers. We should fix XWIKI-6042 >> ofc. Another idea would be that, on the first run (ie when no admin user is >> set up yet) we ask about the language(s) of the wiki in the DW. >> >> > XWIKI-10115: Add the option to choose the language of a new wiki created > with the Distribution Wizard http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10115 > XWIKI-11431: Use the language set for the Main Wiki for newly created > subwikis http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-11431 > > >> Basically right now there needs to be an admin who set up the languages >> for the wiki users, before simple users start using the wiki. >> >>> * Then he said he spotted a bug. The home page had a title of “Home” in French instead of “Accueil”. * He looked around in the UI and at some point he clicked on Page Administration on the home page. This opened a UI with a title of "Administration : Main”. He asked: “what is Main?”. Indeed he was on the home page that was entitled “Home” and suddenly he was shown “Main” >> which 1/ was in English and 2/ didn’t mean anything to him. >>> >>> We have several inconsistencies for the naming (Indexes, etc.). I agree >>> they are confusing. >>> >>> * Then he went on to create a new page and initially was looking for >> that in the drawer in the Wiki Administration UI… At some point, I had to >> tell him to stop and I created a simple user for him (that is not Admin so >> that he couldn’t do in the wiki administration - I should have started with >> this probably although we need to fix our issue that first time users are admins). Once this was done he was able to quickly find the “+” to >> create a new page. * However, he wanted to create a structure with a “Domain” folder and >> some pages inside that folder. He saw the Tree in the Navigation Panel and >> saw that it was hierarchical and thus he wanted to do the same and create >> that “Domain” folder first. So he cancelled the Create Page UI since this was about creating a page and he wanted a folder. He then found the >> “Children Pages” entry in the “More” menu. Note that in French it’s badly >> labelled as “Enfant de XXX” which was weird to him (FTR it’s also invalid grammatically, missing an “s” for plural) but he understood
Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Newbie feedback - Creating pages
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 2:50 PM, Vincent Massol wrote: > > > On 17 Oct 2016, at 12:33, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Thanks for the detailed report. > > > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 11:30 AM, Vincent Massol > wrote: > > > >> Hi devs, > >> > >> Over the weekend I asked my brother in law (who doesn’t anything about > >> XWiki) to test it and give me some feedback. He did this test with me > next > >> to him so I could observe and ask him what was going through his head. > >> > >> I’m sending below a summary of the session. We now need to address each > >> point and see what we want to do to improve the situation. > >> > >> The Setup > >> > >> > >> * HSQLDB/Jetty already setup with an Admin user already logged in. > >> > > > > It's because you had the credentials in the browser's cache. Otherwise we > > ask for them. > > This was part of my setup for him. Not sure why you said “because”. There > was no question nor problem here :) > > > * I had made the Admin user a simple user. > >> > > > > XE-1580: Change the user type for the Admin user to 'simple' > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XE-1580 > > Again this was part of the setup I made so there was no problem about this. > > However we do have a problem of having the first user be an admin user > (see the point about this in my report below), i.e. your first introduction > to XWiki is as an admin user, meaning you get to see more options (admin > page menu entry, global admin settings) which in this session caused > several problems fpr him. > > > * I later realized that I had forgotten to remove my local cookie on my > >> computer and he didn’t have the Tour. Thus I don’t know if he’d have > read > >> it till the end of not. > >> * I asked him 2 things only: > >> ** Create some new pages > >> ** Modify the home page > >> > >> The Feedback > >> === > >> > >> * First thing he wanted to do was to switch the UI to French (he’s > >> French). He looked for his user profile, found it, and couldn’t find a > way > >> to change the language. Fail. I had to tell give him the hint that > language > >> was a global wiki-level setting and I had to do it for him. Other > feedback: > >> The French translation for the language settings is really not > >> user-friendly and needs to be changed, it’s currently “Localisation”, > which > >> is too technical. > >> > > > > XWIKI-6402: Separate Interface language and page language settings. > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 > > This one seems quite important for newcomers. We should fix XWIKI-6042 > ofc. Another idea would be that, on the first run (ie when no admin user is > set up yet) we ask about the language(s) of the wiki in the DW. > > XWIKI-10115: Add the option to choose the language of a new wiki created with the Distribution Wizard http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10115 XWIKI-11431: Use the language set for the Main Wiki for newly created subwikis http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-11431 > Basically right now there needs to be an admin who set up the languages > for the wiki users, before simple users start using the wiki. > > > * Then he said he spotted a bug. The home page had a title of “Home” in > >> French instead of “Accueil”. > >> > >> * He looked around in the UI and at some point he clicked on Page > >> Administration on the home page. This opened a UI with a title of > >> "Administration : Main”. He asked: “what is Main?”. Indeed he was on the > >> home page that was entitled “Home” and suddenly he was shown “Main” > which > >> 1/ was in English and 2/ didn’t mean anything to him. > >> > > > > We have several inconsistencies for the naming (Indexes, etc.). I agree > > they are confusing. > > > > > >> > >> * Then he went on to create a new page and initially was looking for > that > >> in the drawer in the Wiki Administration UI… At some point, I had to > tell > >> him to stop and I created a simple user for him (that is not Admin so > that > >> he couldn’t do in the wiki administration - I should have started with > this > >> probably although we need to fix our issue that first time users are > >> admins). Once this was done he was able to quickly find the “+” to > create a > >> new page. > >> > >> * However, he wanted to create a structure with a “Domain” folder and > some > >> pages inside that folder. He saw the Tree in the Navigation Panel and > saw > >> that it was hierarchical and thus he wanted to do the same and create > that > >> “Domain” folder first. So he cancelled the Create Page UI since this was > >> about creating a page and he wanted a folder. He then found the > “Children > >> Pages” entry in the “More” menu. Note that in French it’s badly > labelled as > >> “Enfant de XXX” which was weird to him (FTR it’s also invalid > >> grammatically, missing an “s” for plural) but he understood it was > related > >> to children page he suggested “Sous-pages” as a better translation). So > he > >> clicked on it and he saw a form displayed (actually
Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Newbie feedback - Creating pages
> On 17 Oct 2016, at 12:33, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote: > > Hi, > > Thanks for the detailed report. > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 11:30 AM, Vincent Massol wrote: > >> Hi devs, >> >> Over the weekend I asked my brother in law (who doesn’t anything about >> XWiki) to test it and give me some feedback. He did this test with me next >> to him so I could observe and ask him what was going through his head. >> >> I’m sending below a summary of the session. We now need to address each >> point and see what we want to do to improve the situation. >> >> The Setup >> >> >> * HSQLDB/Jetty already setup with an Admin user already logged in. >> > > It's because you had the credentials in the browser's cache. Otherwise we > ask for them. This was part of my setup for him. Not sure why you said “because”. There was no question nor problem here :) > * I had made the Admin user a simple user. >> > > XE-1580: Change the user type for the Admin user to 'simple' > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XE-1580 Again this was part of the setup I made so there was no problem about this. However we do have a problem of having the first user be an admin user (see the point about this in my report below), i.e. your first introduction to XWiki is as an admin user, meaning you get to see more options (admin page menu entry, global admin settings) which in this session caused several problems fpr him. > * I later realized that I had forgotten to remove my local cookie on my >> computer and he didn’t have the Tour. Thus I don’t know if he’d have read >> it till the end of not. >> * I asked him 2 things only: >> ** Create some new pages >> ** Modify the home page >> >> The Feedback >> === >> >> * First thing he wanted to do was to switch the UI to French (he’s >> French). He looked for his user profile, found it, and couldn’t find a way >> to change the language. Fail. I had to tell give him the hint that language >> was a global wiki-level setting and I had to do it for him. Other feedback: >> The French translation for the language settings is really not >> user-friendly and needs to be changed, it’s currently “Localisation”, which >> is too technical. >> > > XWIKI-6402: Separate Interface language and page language settings. > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 This one seems quite important for newcomers. We should fix XWIKI-6042 ofc. Another idea would be that, on the first run (ie when no admin user is set up yet) we ask about the language(s) of the wiki in the DW. Basically right now there needs to be an admin who set up the languages for the wiki users, before simple users start using the wiki. > * Then he said he spotted a bug. The home page had a title of “Home” in >> French instead of “Accueil”. >> >> * He looked around in the UI and at some point he clicked on Page >> Administration on the home page. This opened a UI with a title of >> "Administration : Main”. He asked: “what is Main?”. Indeed he was on the >> home page that was entitled “Home” and suddenly he was shown “Main” which >> 1/ was in English and 2/ didn’t mean anything to him. >> > > We have several inconsistencies for the naming (Indexes, etc.). I agree > they are confusing. > > >> >> * Then he went on to create a new page and initially was looking for that >> in the drawer in the Wiki Administration UI… At some point, I had to tell >> him to stop and I created a simple user for him (that is not Admin so that >> he couldn’t do in the wiki administration - I should have started with this >> probably although we need to fix our issue that first time users are >> admins). Once this was done he was able to quickly find the “+” to create a >> new page. >> >> * However, he wanted to create a structure with a “Domain” folder and some >> pages inside that folder. He saw the Tree in the Navigation Panel and saw >> that it was hierarchical and thus he wanted to do the same and create that >> “Domain” folder first. So he cancelled the Create Page UI since this was >> about creating a page and he wanted a folder. He then found the “Children >> Pages” entry in the “More” menu. Note that in French it’s badly labelled as >> “Enfant de XXX” which was weird to him (FTR it’s also invalid >> grammatically, missing an “s” for plural) but he understood it was related >> to children page he suggested “Sous-pages” as a better translation). So he >> clicked on it and he saw a form displayed (actually it was the filter of >> the LT UI). And he started typing “Domain” in the text input but nothing >> happened and he was puzzled. >> >> —> When you look at the children LT for a page not having children, you’ll >> see that we should improve the UI. It doesn’t even say that’s it’s empty >> and that there are no children pages… >> >> * At this point he was a bit stuck and couldn’t understand how to create a >> folder. I had to tell him that in XWiki you could created hierarchical >> pages and that there’s no notion of folders (I didn
Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Newbie feedback - Creating pages
Hi, Thanks for the detailed report. On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 11:30 AM, Vincent Massol wrote: > Hi devs, > > Over the weekend I asked my brother in law (who doesn’t anything about > XWiki) to test it and give me some feedback. He did this test with me next > to him so I could observe and ask him what was going through his head. > > I’m sending below a summary of the session. We now need to address each > point and see what we want to do to improve the situation. > > The Setup > > > * HSQLDB/Jetty already setup with an Admin user already logged in. > It's because you had the credentials in the browser's cache. Otherwise we ask for them. > * I had made the Admin user a simple user. > XE-1580: Change the user type for the Admin user to 'simple' http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XE-1580 > * I later realized that I had forgotten to remove my local cookie on my > computer and he didn’t have the Tour. Thus I don’t know if he’d have read > it till the end of not. > * I asked him 2 things only: > ** Create some new pages > ** Modify the home page > > The Feedback > === > > * First thing he wanted to do was to switch the UI to French (he’s > French). He looked for his user profile, found it, and couldn’t find a way > to change the language. Fail. I had to tell give him the hint that language > was a global wiki-level setting and I had to do it for him. Other feedback: > The French translation for the language settings is really not > user-friendly and needs to be changed, it’s currently “Localisation”, which > is too technical. > XWIKI-6402: Separate Interface language and page language settings. http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 > * Then he said he spotted a bug. The home page had a title of “Home” in > French instead of “Accueil”. > > * He looked around in the UI and at some point he clicked on Page > Administration on the home page. This opened a UI with a title of > "Administration : Main”. He asked: “what is Main?”. Indeed he was on the > home page that was entitled “Home” and suddenly he was shown “Main” which > 1/ was in English and 2/ didn’t mean anything to him. > We have several inconsistencies for the naming (Indexes, etc.). I agree they are confusing. > > * Then he went on to create a new page and initially was looking for that > in the drawer in the Wiki Administration UI… At some point, I had to tell > him to stop and I created a simple user for him (that is not Admin so that > he couldn’t do in the wiki administration - I should have started with this > probably although we need to fix our issue that first time users are > admins). Once this was done he was able to quickly find the “+” to create a > new page. > > * However, he wanted to create a structure with a “Domain” folder and some > pages inside that folder. He saw the Tree in the Navigation Panel and saw > that it was hierarchical and thus he wanted to do the same and create that > “Domain” folder first. So he cancelled the Create Page UI since this was > about creating a page and he wanted a folder. He then found the “Children > Pages” entry in the “More” menu. Note that in French it’s badly labelled as > “Enfant de XXX” which was weird to him (FTR it’s also invalid > grammatically, missing an “s” for plural) but he understood it was related > to children page he suggested “Sous-pages” as a better translation). So he > clicked on it and he saw a form displayed (actually it was the filter of > the LT UI). And he started typing “Domain” in the text input but nothing > happened and he was puzzled. > > —> When you look at the children LT for a page not having children, you’ll > see that we should improve the UI. It doesn’t even say that’s it’s empty > and that there are no children pages… > > * At this point he was a bit stuck and couldn’t understand how to create a > folder. I had to tell him that in XWiki you could created hierarchical > pages and that there’s no notion of folders (I didn’t want to explain the > concept of Spaces especially since he hide this in the UI). He mentioned > that after 20 years of Microsoft practice, everyone understands the concept > of folders and files and that it’s hard to understand that we only have > hierarchical pages. He suggest that we may want to have 2 “+” buttons next > to each other (like “+” and “++” or some other visual with a tooltip of > “Créer page” and “Créer sous-page"). One to create sibling pages and > another one to create children pages). In his head, the default when you > create a page is to create a sibling page, not a sub-page. > * After this he was able to create his pages (note that he used > immediately the templates we provided for his test and selected the > Encyclopedia template). > > * He noted that the icon for Rename/Move/Delete was weird and he didn’t > understand the relationship between the actions and the icon which is the > one for settings (the cog). He suggested to use something different like a > rubber (which incidentally I see that it’s
Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Newbie feedback - Creating pages
FTR I’ve updated several French translations, see the LT on http://l10n.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/L10N/ I’m trying to update the home page translation but there’s a technical problem (not possible to change the title from l10n ATM). Thanks -Vincent > On 17 Oct 2016, at 10:30, Vincent Massol wrote: > > Hi devs, > > Over the weekend I asked my brother in law (who doesn’t anything about XWiki) > to test it and give me some feedback. He did this test with me next to him so > I could observe and ask him what was going through his head. > > I’m sending below a summary of the session. We now need to address each point > and see what we want to do to improve the situation. > > The Setup > > > * HSQLDB/Jetty already setup with an Admin user already logged in. > * I had made the Admin user a simple user. > * I later realized that I had forgotten to remove my local cookie on my > computer and he didn’t have the Tour. Thus I don’t know if he’d have read it > till the end of not. > * I asked him 2 things only: > ** Create some new pages > ** Modify the home page > > The Feedback > === > > * First thing he wanted to do was to switch the UI to French (he’s French). > He looked for his user profile, found it, and couldn’t find a way to change > the language. Fail. I had to tell give him the hint that language was a > global wiki-level setting and I had to do it for him. Other feedback: The > French translation for the language settings is really not user-friendly and > needs to be changed, it’s currently “Localisation”, which is too technical. > > * Then he said he spotted a bug. The home page had a title of “Home” in > French instead of “Accueil”. > > * He looked around in the UI and at some point he clicked on Page > Administration on the home page. This opened a UI with a title of > "Administration : Main”. He asked: “what is Main?”. Indeed he was on the home > page that was entitled “Home” and suddenly he was shown “Main” which 1/ was > in English and 2/ didn’t mean anything to him. > > * Then he went on to create a new page and initially was looking for that in > the drawer in the Wiki Administration UI… At some point, I had to tell him to > stop and I created a simple user for him (that is not Admin so that he > couldn’t do in the wiki administration - I should have started with this > probably although we need to fix our issue that first time users are admins). > Once this was done he was able to quickly find the “+” to create a new page. > > * However, he wanted to create a structure with a “Domain” folder and some > pages inside that folder. He saw the Tree in the Navigation Panel and saw > that it was hierarchical and thus he wanted to do the same and create that > “Domain” folder first. So he cancelled the Create Page UI since this was > about creating a page and he wanted a folder. He then found the “Children > Pages” entry in the “More” menu. Note that in French it’s badly labelled as > “Enfant de XXX” which was weird to him (FTR it’s also invalid grammatically, > missing an “s” for plural) but he understood it was related to children page > he suggested “Sous-pages” as a better translation). So he clicked on it and > he saw a form displayed (actually it was the filter of the LT UI). And he > started typing “Domain” in the text input but nothing happened and he was > puzzled. > > —> When you look at the children LT for a page not having children, you’ll > see that we should improve the UI. It doesn’t even say that’s it’s empty and > that there are no children pages… > > * At this point he was a bit stuck and couldn’t understand how to create a > folder. I had to tell him that in XWiki you could created hierarchical pages > and that there’s no notion of folders (I didn’t want to explain the concept > of Spaces especially since he hide this in the UI). He mentioned that after > 20 years of Microsoft practice, everyone understands the concept of folders > and files and that it’s hard to understand that we only have hierarchical > pages. He suggest that we may want to have 2 “+” buttons next to each other > (like “+” and “++” or some other visual with a tooltip of “Créer page” and > “Créer sous-page"). One to create sibling pages and another one to create > children pages). In his head, the default when you create a page is to create > a sibling page, not a sub-page. > > * After this he was able to create his pages (note that he used immediately > the templates we provided for his test and selected the Encyclopedia > template). > > * He noted that the icon for Rename/Move/Delete was weird and he didn’t > understand the relationship between the actions and the icon which is the one > for settings (the cog). He suggested to use something different like a rubber > (which incidentally I see that it’s missing from > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/XWiki+Icon+Set and we need to > add it). FYI he was no longer Admin a
