from:"Charles\-H. Schulz"

Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: security related information, CVE-2019-9848, CVE-2019-9849

2019-08-10 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Derek,

Le 10 août 2019 06:38:34 GMT+02:00, Derek Currie  a écrit :
>I've been following this situation closely and advising users about the
>workaround for *CVE-2019-9848*.
>
>*Problem:* The Document Foundation has stated that the patch for
>CVE-2019-9848 was not entirely effective. I can provide documentation.
>A
>further patch was supposed to be applied in version 6.3.4 this week.
>And yet
>there is no record in the release notes of that patch. Instead, there
>is an
>incorrect listing that CVE-2019-9848 was patched in v6.2.5.2, which has
>been
>published to not be the case.


So both MITRE and the Document Foundation are wrong according to you?

Also, 6.3.0/was just released, not 6.3.4, and in my understanding has also the 
proper patch(es). This is of course a rather dynamic situation that our 
security team is actively working on.

>
>https://www.libreoffice.org/about-us/security/advisories/cve-2019-9848/
>
> 
>
>This situation is thoroughly confusing users.
>

I am not sure it is...

>I'm continuing to advise users to apply the workaround for
>CVE-2019-9848.


What workaround? Are you in charge of users in a professional environment?

Thanks,

Charles.

>
>Please sort this out ASAP.
>
>Thank you.
>
>Derek Currie
>
>
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] outdated LibreOffice Portable (MS Windows)

2019-04-07 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Andreas,

Andreas Mantke @ 2019-04-06 12:36 CEST:

> Hello,
>
> Am 25.03.19 um 16:28 schrieb Andreas Mantke:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Am 25.03.19 um 14:48 schrieb Italo Vignoli:
>>> When in the past it was suggested by several people to get in touch with
>>> them to explore a closer collaboration, this was always refused because
>>> it would have "offended" John Haller (and they were linked only by the
>>> Italian community).
>>>
>>> So, I do not see why they should link to our infrastructure when they
>>> have been ignored (if not considered as second class citizens because of
>>> their geographical origins). In fact, they are doing a better job than
>> to sum up and make it short and clear:
>>
>> a) the accusation goes into the direction of TDF's board of directors in
>> this case;
>>
>> b) it incorporates the accusation of a discrimination because of
>> someones geological origin (national origin).
>> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination)
>>
>> It's surprising to read such text and belief from the main contact
>> person of TDF and staff member for marketing and PR.
>
> seemed the current board has no issue with this statement and
> accusation, because there is no reply from any of its members yet.
>
> If the board accepts the statement, that could have some impact on the
> status of the foundation.

I had not followed this thread actively since its beginning, as I don't have
the use for a portable version of LibreOffice and never really had one in the 
past.

I will say however that you seem to be asking the questions and making the
answers yourself. Your a) does not make sense. Italo is alluding to issues I
myself heard many years ago concerning the different portable LibreOffice
projects, one of them who seemed to have a problem with TDF. I'm not sure
what this meant or what this means today.
But it does not go into the direction of TDF's board, it's a thread on
@discuss. As to your point b): are you even serious?

So there's no accusation coming from anyone but you in this case. I note your 
last
statement however, and I'm a bit concerned about what you meant: how does
this discussion have an impact on the status of the foundation? Why do you
want to involve the board on such matter? What's your turf?


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[board-discuss] Acceptance of role at the membership committee

2016-09-22 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

I, Charles-H. Schulz , elected deputh member of the Membership Committee of The
Document Foundation (Stiftung bürgerlichen Rechts), hereby accept this
position.

Signed: Charles-H. Schulz. 
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[board-discuss] Self-Nomination

2016-08-22 Thread Charles-H. Schulz


Dear Members of the Foundation, Dear Board & MC Members,

I would like to continue my work inside the Membership Committee for 
another term. I therefore declare my candidacy for the Membership 
Committee.
I have been among the founders of the Document Foundation, a former 
board member and these days I'm mostly active in social networking and 
website edition for the LibreOffice project.


Full Name: SCHULZ Charles-H.
Location: Paris, France
Affiliation: None relevant.
Email: charles DOT schulz AT documentfoundation DOT org
IRC nick: @southerncross or @ch_s


I hope you will consider my application for the membership committee in 
a favourable way.


Best regards,

Charles-H. Schulz.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] LO contributors map

2016-08-15 Thread Charles-H . Schulz

Hello Manfred,

Manfred A. Reiter <ma.rei...@gmail.com> @ 2016-08-14 08:33 CEST:

> Hi Robert, Marc, *,
>
> maybe someone remembers me. ;-)

Yes, I remember you quite well :-) . For everybody else here, Manfred is one
of the oldest OpenOffice.org contributor and member (founder?) of the German
community. So this brings us back somewhere around 2000 or 2001 if I'm not
mistaken. It's great to read you here!

Now, your proposal is also quite interesting; may I suggest that you and
Robert G. here post your ideas to the website list? Otherwise no one will
pick it up and put the contributors' map on our infrastructure...

Thank you,

Charles.

>
> 2016-08-13 23:42 GMT+02:00 Marc Paré <m...@marcpare.com>:
>
>> Hi Robert and Charles,
>>
>> Thanks for doing this Robert, it is a great tool!
>>
>
> Yes, Robert really a great tool.
>
> As I work since some years for the OpenStreetMap community you allow me to
> point to great tool from the OSM community. Maybe you can use it for your
> needs.
>
> uMap is OSS and if necessary you could host it on your own servers.
>
> http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/de/
>
> You allow me to show some expamples:
>
> http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/de/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.4/108.3
>
> or
>
> http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/es/map/openstreetmap-latinoamerica_90705#4/-3.86/-67.76
>
> Please see the other examples on uMap as well.
>
> If you need any help from the OSM-Community just ask.
>
> It would be a pleasure to help you. ;-)
>
> cheers
>
> -- 
> ## Manfred Reiter - -
> ## www.weeklyOSM.eu


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Re: [tdf-discuss] LO contributors map

2016-08-07 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Hello Robert,

Thanks for doing this! I think we should host this on our infra. In any
case, I'll forward this to other mailing list that may reach active
contributors.

Cheers,

- -- 
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Co-founder, The Document Foundation,
Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin
Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
Mobile Number: +33 (0)6 98 65 54 24.


Le Sun, 7 Aug 2016 18:52:47 +0200,
Robert Großkopf <rob...@familiegrosskopf.de> a écrit :

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hi *,
> 
> during a LO-community-meeting in 2014 we planned to create a community
> map to find people living nearby. We created something in that way,
> but it seems it had fallen asleep. Now I have published the map I
> created on my own homepage:
> http://robert.familiegrosskopf.de/map_3/
> 
> Some members of the German community have added themselves.
> 
> Try it out, give feedback. If interested in the sourcecode feel free
> to contact me directly.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Robert
>
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Re: [board-discuss] Fwd: OSCAL Tirana

2016-03-25 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

If I am the approver then +1.

Charles. 

Le 25 mars 2016 11:58:08 GMT+01:00, Michael Meeks  
a écrit :
>
>On Fri, 2016-03-25 at 00:32 +0100, Italo Vignoli wrote:
>> The attached message is still waiting for an answer. In the meantime,
>I
>> have booked my travel, and the expense is going to be less than half
>the
>> amount originally forecasted.
>>
>> I need the approval of the expense from the marketing/community
>budget.
>
>   Not sure I'm an approver for that budget; but it sounds pretty
>sensible
>to me =)
>
>   +1
>
>   ATB,
>
>   Michael.
>
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>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Installing on Mac OS X

2015-12-19 Thread Charles-H . Schulz


Larry Gusaas <larry.gus...@gmail.com> @ 2015-12-18 23:35 CET:

> On 2015-12-18, 4:14 PM Charles-H. Schulz wrote concerning "Re:
> [tdf-discuss] Re: Installing on Mac OS X":
>
> 
> 4. I call LibreOffice a clone because it is a clone. Some people try
>> to dispute this unequivocal fact.
>
> No, that is your opinion.
>
> No it is a fact. When did LibreOffice have the legal right to the name
> OpenOffice.org. Never. Why did LibreOffice update its code base to
> Apache OpenOffice?

I'm sorry but what are you even talking about? You seem to call a clone (and
apply its negative nuance to it) what started as a
fork. http://www.opensource.org for more and again:
http://gerrit.libreoffice.org -> what you see there is not clone of Apache
OpenOffice .


>
> LibreOffice is not a successor to OpenOffice.org, it is a clone
> derived from it. All legal, by the way. But your claims not to be a
> clone are specious.

It seems you want to make a political point while aggressively complaining
about a real issue with language packs on OSX and repeatedly "threatening" to
go back to Apache OpenOffice. My initial reaction was to help you sort out
the issue, but you already had sorted it out yourself. My second reaction was
to encourage you to follow your impulse and go back using Apache
OpenOffice. If LibreOffice makes your life miserable, you have other choices,
and after all, it's not like you've purchased it or something. My only regret
is that I did not understand your point until long into the thread

Cheers,

Charles.


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Re: [board-discuss] Questions for the candidates to the board of directors of the Document Foundation

2015-11-27 Thread Charles-H. Schulz


Hello,

I would like to thank the candidates who already took the time to answer 
my questions and the candidates who will soon reply :-) . I hope their 
answers will help our members get a better idea on the opinions and the 
vision of each candidate to the board!


Best,

Charles.

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[board-discuss] Candidate nomination

2015-11-24 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Dear members of the Foundation, 

I would like to nominate Simon Phipps as candidate to the board of directors of 
the Document Foundation. 

Simon is not only a former executive of Sun Microsystems and an Open Source 
Software renowned expert; he has been a contributor to the LibreOffice project 
and to the Foundation since its early days. He has also served at our 
membership committee.

I believe Simon has the right skills, the talent and the vision to be a great 
member of the board of directors of the Document Foundation. I would be happy 
if the members would elect him as a director.

Best regards,

Charles-H. Schulz. 
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[board-discuss] Fwd: Questions for the candidates to the board of directors of the Document Foundation

2015-11-21 Thread Charles-H . Schulz

Dear future or existing candidates to  the board of directors,

I just wanted to remind you that:
1) the nomination deadline is approaching fast
2) don't forget to answer my questions below -two candidates have declared
their candidacy but have not replied so far.

Thanks,

Charles.


Charles-H. Schulz <charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org> @ 2015-11-02 17:38 
CET:

> Dear candidates to the board of directors of the Document Foundation,
>
> I would first like to thank you for running as candidates for the board 
> of directors. At this time, not every candidate has declared his or her 
> candidacy. However, I would like to ask a few questions about your views 
> and intentions regarding the Document Foundation and your plans as 
> potential directors of the entity. I hope they will be helpful in 
> englightening our membership and hopefully, all of you will be able to 
> answer them.
>
> 1. Do you commit yourself to have enough time and the necessary 
> technological tools in order to participate to the regularly scheduled 
> board calls?
>
>
> 2. Do you commit yourself to follow up and work on (at least) the main 
> items and actions you have volunteered to oversee or that have been 
> attributed to you by the board?
>
>
> 3. What are your views on the foundation's budget? How should the money 
> be spent, besides our fixed costs?
>
>
> 4. Should we work towards broadening our pool of contributors, both 
> technical and non-technical?
>
>
> 5. Should the Foundation -as an entity distinct from the LibreOffice 
> project or the Document Liberation project- engage into growing its 
> influence and promoting and defending Free Software and Digital Freedom? 
> It is, after all, an integral part of its mission per its very Statutes. 
> If yes, do you have ideas on what should be done about this?
>
>
> 6. How do you view your (potential) role as a member of the board of 
> directors, given that this position does not give you any specific 
> functional role inside the LibreOffice or Document Liberation projects?
>
>
> 7. What is the biggest problem of the foundation in your opinion? What 
> is its biggest opportunity?
>
>
> Thank you for your answers,
>
> Charles-H. Schulz.

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[board-discuss] Questions for the candidates to the board of directors of the Document Foundation

2015-11-02 Thread Charles-H. Schulz


Dear candidates to the board of directors of the Document Foundation,

I would first like to thank you for running as candidates for the board 
of directors. At this time, not every candidate has declared his or her 
candidacy. However, I would like to ask a few questions about your views 
and intentions regarding the Document Foundation and your plans as 
potential directors of the entity. I hope they will be helpful in 
englightening our membership and hopefully, all of you will be able to 
answer them.


1. Do you commit yourself to have enough time and the necessary 
technological tools in order to participate to the regularly scheduled 
board calls?



2. Do you commit yourself to follow up and work on (at least) the main 
items and actions you have volunteered to oversee or that have been 
attributed to you by the board?



3. What are your views on the foundation's budget? How should the money 
be spent, besides our fixed costs?



4. Should we work towards broadening our pool of contributors, both 
technical and non-technical?



5. Should the Foundation -as an entity distinct from the LibreOffice 
project or the Document Liberation project- engage into growing its 
influence and promoting and defending Free Software and Digital Freedom? 
It is, after all, an integral part of its mission per its very Statutes. 
If yes, do you have ideas on what should be done about this?



6. How do you view your (potential) role as a member of the board of 
directors, given that this position does not give you any specific 
functional role inside the LibreOffice or Document Liberation projects?



7. What is the biggest problem of the foundation in your opinion? What 
is its biggest opportunity?



Thank you for your answers,

Charles-H. Schulz.

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Re: [board-discuss] Budget Approval for LibreItalia Conference

2015-10-25 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Le 25 octobre 2015 16:27:50 GMT+01:00, Italo Vignoli  a 
écrit :
>Associazione LibreItalia asked a grant to cover travel expenses for
>LibreItalia Conference on November 28, but the BoD prefers to handle
>the
>reimbursement within the marketing budget.
>
>Charles, can you please approve the expense, which is specified in the
>attachment?
>
>Thanks, Italo

Sure, approved.

Best,

Charles. 
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Re: [board-discuss] Marketing Budget Approval for FUEL GILT 2015

2015-10-25 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Le 25 octobre 2015 16:40:31 GMT+01:00, Italo Vignoli  a 
écrit :
>FUEL GILT is one of the largest conferences focused on localization
>issues, and is organized by a number of TDF community members in India
>(those who have attended the conference in Aarhus). They have invited
>Sophie and myself to attend the conference, and the idea is the I
>attend
>2015 and Sophie attends 2016, to foster the connection with the Indian
>NLP and promote LibreOffice and ODF in the Indian market.
>
>The conference happens in Chennai (Madras) on November 20-22, and I
>will
>present a paper on LibreOffice localization (edited with Sophie's
>precious help) and one on the ODF document standard (and associated
>issues, such as free fonts for interoperability).
>
>Travel expenses will be lower than 1,000 Euro (flight is around 600
>Euro, hotel is less than 75 Euro per night, and other expenses are low
>in comparison with Europe).
>
>For more information on FUEL: http://fuelproject.org/gilt2015/index.
>
>I ask Charles to approve the expense from the marketing budget.

Excellent idea. Approved. 

Best,

Charles. 
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Re: [board-discuss] Pre Approval of Travel Reimbursement

2015-10-01 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Le 1 octobre 2015 11:53:05 GMT+02:00, Italo Vignoli  a 
écrit :
>I would like to ask a pre-approval of travel reimbursements from the
>marketing budget for the following tasks:
>
>1. OSCON Europe, happening in Amsterdam from October 26 to October 28,
>where I will travel to support the local community at the booth and to
>meet European journalists (forecasted expense: transportation + hotel =
>euro 800).
>
>2. Meetings with Italian Government bodies in Rome, where we - myself
>and Sonia Montegiove - will be introduced by the Ministry of Defense as
>a part of the agreement signed by Associazione LibreItalia (forecasted
>expense for two people: transportation + hotel when necessary = euro
>1,200).
>
>Both forecasts include some flexibility. The final amount should be
>lower than the total forecasted.
>
>Sonia Montegiove has already traveled to Verona for the first meeting,
>while the other meetings will happen from mid October till the end of
>November.
>
>Being a budget approver for marketing, I abstain.

+1 as marketing budget approver.

Best,

Charles. 
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[board-discuss] Use of the tagline for the 5.0 release

2015-07-29 Thread Charles-H . Schulz

Dear board members,

Apologies for the short notice. This email is to notify the board that I
authorize the use of the tagline Moved by Freedom - Powered by Standards
for the release of LibreOffice 5.0. It looks like there is some great chance
we will be using the tagline that is the default title of my weblog
(http://www.standardsandfreedom.net).
I authorize the Foundation to use this tagline on the various marketing
material (banners, etc.) that will be designed for the 5.0 release.

Best regards,

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Re: [board-discuss] Budget for event FISL16

2015-07-07 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Le 7 juillet 2015 13:47:28 GMT+02:00, Italo Vignoli it...@libreoffice.org a 
écrit :
Re-Approved, Italo

On 07/07/15 13:22, Eliane Domingos de Sousa wrote:
 Dear Marketing,
 
 Apologize for the late request.
 
 I would like to request a budget for the event FISL16, for expenses
with
 air ticket and hotel. The event will happen this week July 8 to 11
and
 I'll have the following activities:
 
 * Lecture: LibreOffice Online and LibreOffice 5.0
 * Lecture: LibreOffice Extensions
 * Lecture: Strategies of Migration for LibreOffice
 * Lecture: LibreOffice Magazine
 
 Budget: BRL 1.067,00

Eliane,

Co-marketing hat on here: approved.

Best,

Charles. 
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[tdf-discuss] Fwd: [libreoffice-website] Deployment_and_Migration guide questions

2015-05-25 Thread Charles-H. Schulz




 Message d'origine 
De : Rob Pearson r...@pearson.net.nz
Envoyé : 25 mai 2015 13:26:03 GMT+02:00
À : webs...@global.libreoffice.org
Objet : [libreoffice-website] Deployment_and_Migration guide questions

Hi,  I have been bold and made significant changes to 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Deployment_and_Migration  Can anyone 
help answer my questions on the discussion tab, as it would save me a 
lot of time testing.  These are questions are copied below:

I apologise if I have mailed the wrong list!

Regards Rob


SELECT_WORD or REGISTER_DOC ?

which is current method, SELECT or REGISTER ?
Is it OK to just delete the old method, or is there a better way to keep 
the history keeping this document smaller?
For SELECT is the default=0 ?
For REGISTER is this for both doc/xls/ppt and docx/xlsx/pptx ?

  SELECT_WORD - use LibreOffice as the default application for Microsoft Word 
file formats
  SELECT_EXCEL - use LibreOffice as the default application for Microsoft Excel 
file formats
  SELECT_POWERPOINT - use LibreOffice as the default application for Microsoft 
PowerPoint file formats

or

  REGISTER_DOC (default=0) - use LibreOffice as the default application for 
Microsoft Word file format .doc
  REGISTER_XLS (default=0) - use LibreOffice as the default application for 
Microsoft Excel file format .doc
  REGISTER_PPT (default=0) - use LibreOffice as the default application for 
Microsoft Powerpoint file format .doc


Is single MSI history needed ?

Do we need to keep the history at the top about LibreOffice being a 
single MSI since 3.5?


Dictionaries reference to out of date article

Removing dictionaries using language codes references to an out-of-date 
article: 
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms533052%28v=vs.85%29.aspx 
should the link be 
http://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry/language-subtag-registry
 ?


Are TRANSFORMS and Locale IDs superceded by UI_LANGS ?

Are UI language selection using TRANSFORMS (e.g. TRANSFORMS=:1084) and 
also numeric Locale IDs (e.g. IS5146) now irrelevant and superseded by 
UI_LANGS from 3.5.5 onwards, perhaps they are for different things?


To-Do - Test and document for Windows 8.1


To-Do - Test and document for Windows 2012

Note that Windows 2012 is like Windows 8.1


To-Do - Test and document for Windows 2012 in RDS

Note that Windows 2012 is like Windows 8.1


To-Do - Test and document for Windows 2008r2

Note that Windows 2008r2 is like Windows 7


To-Do - Test and document for Windows 2008r2 RDS

Note that Windows 2008r2 is like Windows 7


To-Do - as above, preparing for LibreOffive 5.00



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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: RfD: Non-corporate user representation?

2015-01-18 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Mike,

Le samedi 17 janvier 2015 à 22:02 +, Mike Hall a écrit :
 On 21/12/2014 13:18, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
  Would a different attitude/culture, something like
  Users 1st, help to mitigate that?
  Users do not dictate what developers do. That's not how Free and Open
  Source Software works, as the culture change entails that users would
  tell developers and contributors what to do. What would be the
  incentive for anyone to do that? I have a day job. Many others do. Why
  would I receive directives from random people?:-)
 
  At the same time it would be good
  to define the user's implicit responsibilities resulting from their
  choice to use the product. To make the difference clearer, it's not a
  case that the user needs to 'Join us!' as on the Help  Send
  Feedback...page, rather it would be an accepted fact that all
  users are automatically a member of the community simply by virtue of
  being users.
  Users are users. They get rights from the software freedom conveyed by
  the licenses we use. They do not get anything else, unless they want to
  become contributors. Anything else is toxic for the community and
  profoundly demotivational (btw: we have ten years of experience on that
  inside OpenOffice.org)
 
  
  To make this change of emphasis visible I'm thinking of an extension
  to theHelp  Send Feedback...page, also ideally putting that
  content into the main help file so users can see it without going
  online.
  
  Below is a very rough draft, based in part on Thorsten's excellent
  summary above. I'd be happy to put more effort into a better version
  if gets support. Keeping this kind of text simple and inviting is
  always very difficult.
  ==
 Welcome to the LibreOffice Community
  
  The LibreOffice community includes all users. Everyone is welcome,
  whether as a user or if you are able to become more involved.
  How about: Everyone is welcome: see how you can become involved today!
  Otherwise  you keep on having this distinction where users are not
  encouraged to become contributors.
 
 OK, I can spend some time on this now and will work though the design 
 group as suggested.

Thanks! This is really appreciated and perhaps more that you could
guess. (See my other answer specifically on the design list). Only
answering your points below for now...

 
 I'm still keen on a 'users first' approach and an acceptance that users 
 are 'in' the community by virtue of being users. It's semantic I 
 suppose, since in some sense users are clearly part of the wider LO 
 community.

Yes indeed. 

  The idea actually comes from my local hospital, which has the 
 byline 'patients first' on all its correspondence and documentation. The 
 patient is considered to be part of the team rather than someone to whom 
 things are done. In my personal experience it makes a huge difference to 
 how 'users' feel. It doesn't though make much difference to medical 
 processes and treatment. So, by a similar analogy, I don't see why you 
 would expect a 'users first' approach to change current processes 
 significantly. BUT, in my view there is a considerable potential upside 
 because it will make the user feel more valued, it will make the step to 
 deeper involvement seem smaller even though in practice it's just the 
 same, and it will probably make it slightly more likely that users will 
 take that step, which is what we all want. I understand that it might 
 seem threatening having thought about the relationship in a different 
 way for 10 years. I expect hospital staff felt the same when the idea 
 was first floated there, and their history is much longer than that. So, 
 I plan to draft stuff along 'user first' lines and see how it looks. If 
 it still seems too awful, it will no doubt get changed before 
 implementation.


Sorry for not having been clear. I meant that we spent 10 years
practicing the Putting users first way and we got bad results; if
anything Free Software projects do not work well with this notion. The
fear we were mentioning is based on something we witnessed before:
instead of encouragement (which I understand is what you're betting on)
we develop a sense of entitlement while at the same time discouraging
contributors. 

Going back on what you would like to do in terms of design: this is
important as we are constantly interested in gaining new contributors
out of users. So what you're doing could be quite helpful and useful.
Looking forward tot this!


Best,

Charles.


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: RfD: Non-corporate user representation?

2014-12-21 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Mike,

Le Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:41:05 +,
Mike Hall mike.h...@onepoyle.net a écrit :

 On 16/12/2014 09:37, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
  As such, we're crucially relying on feedback from our users (and
  Charles pointed out the many ways to collect it) -- but just in the
  aggregate. Collectively, our user base provides tremendous value to
  us, by marketing to peers, reporting bugs, voting with their feet,
  donating money etc. The individual user though -- on average --
  contributes just tiny amounts. So the big picture looks pretty much
  like Charles' tongue-in-cheek 'almost zero'.
 I'm also late responding to what seemed originally to be a genuine 
 attempt by Nino to seek ways of enhancing end user feedback.

I read Nino's words as being emphatically not about enhancing user
feedback... :-)

 
 Although I agree the necessary mechanisms are in place, his input is 
 evidence that it can be hard for users to appreciate this.
 
 It can seem that developments and discussions are for the benefit of
 the 'in' team and not for the majority who are not involved other
 than as users. 

Pardon me but I am not a developer. I do not claim to understand code;
I do not claim to understand a third or half of what the Engineering
Steering Committee writes in its meeting minutes (but I understand the
other parts); we are many contributors in this situation. But we also
have users who simply do not accept that they are using something which
is not a product, and that they can make the software as much as
anybody else. The underlying idea here is that not only is LibreOffice
not a product, it is also not a project that works according to users
wishes if these are only wishes... see more comments inline.

 Would a different attitude/culture, something like
 Users 1st, help to mitigate that?

Users do not dictate what developers do. That's not how Free and Open
Source Software works, as the culture change entails that users would
tell developers and contributors what to do. What would be the
incentive for anyone to do that? I have a day job. Many others do. Why
would I receive directives from random people? :-)

 At the same time it would be good
 to define the user's implicit responsibilities resulting from their
 choice to use the product. To make the difference clearer, it's not a
 case that the user needs to 'Join us!' as on the Help  Send
 Feedback...page, rather it would be an accepted fact that all
 users are automatically a member of the community simply by virtue of
 being users.

Users are users. They get rights from the software freedom conveyed by
the licenses we use. They do not get anything else, unless they want to
become contributors. Anything else is toxic for the community and
profoundly demotivational (btw: we have ten years of experience on that
inside OpenOffice.org)

 
 To make this change of emphasis visible I'm thinking of an extension
 to theHelp  Send Feedback...page, also ideally putting that 
 content into the main help file so users can see it without going
 online.
 
 Below is a very rough draft, based in part on Thorsten's excellent 
 summary above. I'd be happy to put more effort into a better version
 if gets support. Keeping this kind of text simple and inviting is
 always very difficult.
 ==
   Welcome to the LibreOffice Community
 
 The LibreOffice community includes all users. Everyone is welcome, 
 whether as a user or if you are able to become more involved.

How about: Everyone is welcome: see how you can become involved today!
Otherwise  you keep on having this distinction where users are not
encouraged to become contributors.

 
 As a user, you inevitably have responsibilities:
 - enjoy the advantages of LO
 - learn to use the LO effectively
 - keep your version up-to-date
 - make an occasional donation, however small, perhaps when you upgrade
 - tell your friends about your experience


I like these lines above.

 
 You are most welcome to become more involved:
 [ followed by a reformatted version of the   Help  Send Feedback
 page]

How about bring the feedback link in the above list, and where you have:
You are most welcome to become involved:
put the link to: https://www.libreoffice.org/community/get-involved/

Because that one is for everyone as well?

Next step, if you wish, is to bring this to our Design team (mailing
list, whiteboard, etc.)

Thanks!

Charles.


 
 [new 'Users 1st' logo]
 ==


You are missing all these links here



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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: RfD: Non-corporate user representation?

2014-12-20 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Tim,

On 20 décembre 2014 21:08:46 CET, Timofonic timofo...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello.

I think we (users) sometimes fail to connect with developers' mindset.

Due to our lack of technical knowledge and often a lack of discipline,
our feedback isn't enough interesting for them and we sometimes feel
quite ignored.

I believe it is important to stress that you do not have to be a developer to
be a LibreOffice contributor and TDF member. I am not a developer and there
are many non technical areas for users to engage in. All it takes is some
moderate effort.

In the end, we the users try (emphasis here, we know
what we want but how how we want it and commonly fail to explain it
properly) to explain our needs and what we think it should be improved
from a different POV.

Keep in mind that what users want are many different things , and sometimes
they are contradictory.

I tried to explain my education-related issues and needs, such as
inserting formulas in a Libreoffice Writer document (I find it needs to
support boolean stuff like xor symbols and some other improvements).

I have not read about your needs on LibreOffice but I do not think your needs
are equally shared by every other user.

I
know there's limited resources, but I think maybe corporate needs are
becoming too heavy and other areas like education are underrated.

What makes you think that?

What
about a lot more non-profit organizations becoming part of BoD?

You mean our AdvisoryBoard? We are open :-)

I also had some weird bugs (or unintended software behavior) when
writing large texts, but I often forget to note them (and unable to
explain a way to reproduce it) because I'm in a hurry and was lazy too.

Maybe different specific associations should be part of BoD and user
feedback be taken more seriously in a less marketeer way but more
scientific and social.

Actually we try to be really serious with user feedback. You seem to think that
we somehow go away with marketing sound bytes (as a marketing contributor
should I feel flattered?) and that corporate greed is slowly taking over. I for
one would hate to have TDF being some sort of storefront for businesses making
their bucks on individual users. In reality numbers tell a completely different
story: TDF budget relies for about a seventh on corporate donations and this
share used to be much more important in the past. Individual donors or small
businesses are our the bulk of the donations.

However, there's still this ongoing lack of understanding coming from some
users about what TDF does and is. We are nothing without volunteers. Volunteers
can be users but they are contributors. They are not customers nor people who
feel entitled to give their opinion against, well, nothing. Volunteers are not
always developers, far from that. But volunteers donate time and effort. We do
not work without them. If you (I may be wrong) never filed a bug report, helped
on the documentation, or on our user interface design, on quality assurance, on
marketing, etc. Then your voice will not get heard and you may end up with the
feeling that things just work without your input. But then this works just like
many other things in life.

Cheers,

Charles.

Regards.

El 19 de diciembre de 2014 14:38:15 CET, Simon Phipps
si...@webmink.com escribió:
Inspired by this and some other similar conversations, here's my
thought:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2860074/open-source-software/become-an-open-source-software-tester.html

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Re: [tdf-discuss] RfD: Non-corporate user representation?

2014-12-05 Thread Charles-H. Schulz


Hello Nino,

Le 05.12.2014 11:37, Nino Novak a écrit :

Hi,

AFAICS, TDF does not have any formal Joe Average user lobby.

There are BoD, ESC, MC, AB - but the end user community only can send 
their
opinions, needs and ideas to mailing lists or speak up informally in 
meetings.


Yes... why is that a problem? :-) the bodies you mentioned are bodies 
that are formed out of people or entities contributing something to the 
project.




What about the idea of creating e.g. a User Interest Commitee (or 
board),
which has an advisory role - similar to the AB? Could this help to 
better

channelize / make visible the interests of normal users?


This is a valid concern; so far we have options for feedback that are 
summarized here: http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/feedback/ but maybe 
we could check if these carry out the right information in an acceptable 
time.



There are highly
competent people around in mailing lists and forums, who, at least to 
my
believe, should be given a stronger voice than to just send a mail to a 
list.


Sure, they can contribute anything from bug reports to marketing 
materials, website bits, localizations, to code.




(I know, the big hurdle is to do it, but nevertheless wanted to 
express

what I think/feel here as a starting point).*


What TDF has refrained from doing is precisely let the impression that 
if someone wants something, some developer will autmatically do it. We 
believe users can become contributors, and as such we try really hard to 
ensure anyone can join the project and its activities (but of course 
this can be improved!). However, advices for free is not something TDF 
and the project in general is interested in. Did you have a different 
process in mind? What would this user committee do specifically?


Best,

Charles.



Regards,
Nino


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: RfD: Non-corporate user representation?

2014-12-05 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Nino,

On 5 décembre 2014 17:13:09 CET, Nino Novak nn.l...@kflog.org wrote:
Hi Charles,

thanks for your reply :)

Am 05.12.2014 um 15:30 schrieb Charles-H. Schulz:
 Le 05.12.2014 11:37, Nino Novak a écrit :
 Hi,

 AFAICS, TDF does not have any formal Joe Average user lobby.

 There are BoD, ESC, MC, AB - but the end user community only can
send their
 opinions, needs and ideas to mailing lists or speak up informally in
 meetings.
 
 Yes... why is that a problem? :-) the bodies you mentioned are bodies
that
 are formed out of people or entities contributing something to the
project.

This is not per se a problem, but here, the problem starts.

You really seem to believe that somebody just using LibreOffice does
not
contribute anything. In my eyes, everybody downloading the software and
starting to use it, *does* contribute. At least their time :-)

For me this is somehow obvious.

For me and others it is not. Contributors contributing time and users 
downloading the software are really different in their efforts. Making this 
distinction has allowed us to grow our community and our project in ways few 
people could think imaginable. The old OpenOffice.org project did not really 
make that distinction by the way and it was one of the factors that demotivated 
many actual and potential contributors.


So my concern might come out of need of better appreciation of the
simple
user. In my eyes, they are part of the community, too - but without a
voice, without a saying. Is this, what TDF  stands for?

TDF stands for its constant effort in building a great community who produces 
great software. Somewhere along the line wwe are happy to have LibreOffice be 
used by dozens of millions. They can have a voice through feedback and support 
channels. Not as contributors.



 What about the idea of creating e.g. a User Interest Commitee (or
board),
 which has an advisory role - similar to the AB? Could this help to
better
 channelize / make visible the interests of normal users?
 
 This is a valid concern; so far we have options for feedback that are
 summarized here: http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/feedback/ but
maybe we
 could check if these carry out the right information in an acceptable
time.

What I'm giving here is also feedback ;-)


 There are highly
 competent people around in mailing lists and forums, who, at least
to my
 believe, should be given a stronger voice than to just send a mail
to a list.
 
 Sure, they can contribute anything from bug reports to marketing
materials,
 website bits, localizations, to code.

See above - how much do you value contributing by just using the
software?

At zero. Seriously very little value. And this is also why LibreOffice just 
like most other FOSS is available free of charge.



 (I know, the big hurdle is to do it, but nevertheless wanted to
express
 what I think/feel here as a starting point).*
 
 What TDF has refrained from doing is precisely let the impression
that if
 someone wants something, some developer will autmatically do it.

Strange kind of thinking... I can't believe that TDF is gouverned by
the
fear of promising unrealistic dreams :-)

:-) it is not governed by that. But it has learned its lessons from the past.


My concern in contrast is that the project thus neglects a whole bunch
of
good will, possibliy good ideas, and potentially clever opinions. And
in
addition, maybe, also fruitful dialogs.


 We believe
 users can become contributors, and as such we try really hard to
ensure
 anyone can join the project and its activities (but of course this
can be
 improved!). However, advices for free is not something TDF and the
project
 in general is interested in. Did you have a different process in
mind? What
 would this user committee do specifically?

Good question. A couple of answers...

Appreciate the (needs of the) users...

Listen to them...

Give them a formal voice...

Show officially that every single LibreOffice user is a valued
contributor
and per se member of the community (however not a formal member,
sure, as
formal members have kind of an access threshold which I do not
question).

Actually they don't. Members form the foundation but they do not have a 
priviledged access. Members decide on TDF and the way to become a member is by 
contributing.



It's probably indeed a question of appreciation. And of valuing a large
group of small contributors. Something like that.

However, I still don't know if it's a good idea. That's the reason I
put it
here for discussion: from my gut feeling it would sound good to have
one (or
a few) User Interest Representatives in one of the
commitees/boards/whatever. Their duty could be to give their opinion
to
questions from the UX or ESC or QA (like should this button be renamed


So UX is really easy to join and so is QA. But aside polling people I think the 
real question would then be: how do we turn users into contributors?


or
not? or what default value should this option have? or something

Re: [board-discuss] Speaking at Conferences in Italy

2014-12-04 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Italo,

On 5 décembre 2014 01:14:07 CET, Italo Vignoli it...@libreoffice.org wrote:
I have been invited to present LibreOffice in Foligno on Saturday,
December 13. I will also lecture about document standards on Friday,
December 12, to the members of Perugia Linux User Group. Both events
are
organized within the migration to LibreOffice of Regione Umbria. Travel
expenses are limited to train tickets (euro 95,40), as I will stay at
my
sister's in Assisi.

I have also been invited to present LibreOffice in Cagliari on
Saturday,
December 20, at a Free Software Conference organized by the local
university to remember Giulio Concas, a professor and open source
advocate who died in September at age 50. Giulio was a friend of every
Italian open source advocate, although we were used to meet only at
conferences. I will have to leave on Friday, December 19, and spend the
night in Cagliari, as flights are not available on Saturday morning. I
anticipate that the cost will not be higher than 250 euro.

I ask Charles to approve the expense from the marketing budget.

As usual, being a marketing budget approver myself, this happens on the
public mailing list for the sake of transparency.

Sounds good to me, I approve.

Best,

Charles.



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Re: [board-discuss] Travel Expense Approval

2014-11-10 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Italo,

On 9 novembre 2014 18:47:59 CET, Italo Vignoli it...@libreoffice.org wrote:
I will represent the project at the upcoming SFScon in Bolzano, on
November 14. This year, we will have a 2 hours long workshop in the
afternoon, focused on migrations and certification, in addition to a
booth (staffed by local TDF members).

I will have to travel by car to bring booth materials with me, and
therefore I am asking to cover travel expenses (fuel plus tolls: Euro
90
+ Euro 41.20) and lodging for two nights (Euro 40 + Euro 55).

Thanks and best regards, Italo


Not from the board obviously but from marketing: +1

Best,

Charles.

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Re: [board-discuss] [ANN] Results for the 2014 Membership Committee election

2014-09-30 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

I, Charles-H. Schulz, elected member of the Membership Committee of
 The Document Foundation, hereby accept this position.

 Signed: Charles-H. Schulz.
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[board-discuss] Membership Committee Candicacy

2014-08-19 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Dear all,

I am interested in serving at the Membership Committee of the Document
Foundation. I have been one of the co-founders of the LibreOffice
project and used to be a contributor of the OpenOffice.org project.
These days I am mostly involved in comms and marketing for the
community.

I will be happy to help the community and the foundation members by
participating to the committee' s work and sessions.

Name: Charles-H. Schulz
Email: charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org  c...@adocentyn.io
Affiliation: None .


Best regards,

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Recent reversal / questioning of policy by München government

2014-08-19 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Owen,

Nothing is done nor decided. I understand the city council does not share the
mayor's point of view. From what it looks like it is a political issue that
uses technical arguments.

Best,.
Charles.

On 19 août 2014 10:22:44 CEST, Owen Genat owen.ge...@gmail.com wrote:
This
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/muenchner-stadtverwaltung-von-microsoft-zu-linux-und-zurueck-1.2090611

recent Süddeutsche article (German text - English version via Google
Translate here
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=detl=enjs=yprev=_thl=enie=UTF-8u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sueddeutsche.de%2Fmuenchen%2Fmuenchner-stadtverwaltung-von-microsoft-zu-linux-und-zurueck-1.2090611edit-text=act=url

) seems to be getting cited by a number of Tech news sites. The ZDNet
article here
http://www.zdnet.com/after-a-10-year-linux-migration-munich-considers-switching-back-to-windows-and-office-732714/

appears to offer more detail than most. Scant mention is made of
LibreOffice
in any of the articles.

Does anyone have a clearer understanding of what this may mean in terms
of
LibreOffice use if the policy is reversed and a transition from LiMux
(Ubuntu-based distribution) back to Microsoft Windows begins?
LibreOffice
can of course run on either platform, but part of the issue seems to
have
been OOXML support when exchanging files with customers. It will be
disheartening to see a reversal after so much effort.

-
Best wishes, Owen.
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Re: [tdf-discuss] LIbreoffice suggestion 07-17-2014

2014-07-18 Thread Charles-H. Schulz


Hello Joe,

Actually you can turn tool bars into pinnable elements, make them 
floating, etc. View  Toolbars  select one and see what gives. Did I 
get you right?


best,

Charles.

Le 17.07.2014 21:26, Joseph Durham a écrit :

For future development if it is not a copyrighted process:

Can you create pinable menus so that they can remain on the screen for
ready access as you are working on a document.

Geoworks had this handy feature, but it may be a copyrighted feature.

Joe Durham
Quad Cities Computer Society
www.qcs.org


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Intervention

2014-07-14 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Jean-Christophe,

Your message would be more useful and read on our QA list...

Thanks,

Charles.

On 14 juillet 2014 09:10:15 CEST, jean-christophe manciot 
actionmysti...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello everyone,

I've been aware of the following situation for a long time in the bug
report forum, but I thought it would improve over time. Since it
hasn't changed at all, I feel I have to blow the whistle on this.

As I have already written in a specific thread, here's the situation:

1) Almost all bug reports checkcers don't even consider bug reports
when they can't get the original file(s);

2) The same people mark bug reports as Resolved - Invalid / Not A
Bug even when they are unable to confirm or deny them for whatever
reason: no original file, different environment than the reporter, ...

3) It is not always possible for the bug reporters to hand over their
original file(s), for many different reasons that are beyond the scope
of this thread (confidentiality, legal concerns and so on...).

I believe it is always possible for the checkers to trust the
reporters and follow the steps to reproduce on their own material
first; if they can't do that, they probably should ask
themselves about their true motivations in this forum. It is rare that
the reporters use tricky configurations with tricky files and so on.
Moreover, in case these steps are unclear, the reporters are usually
available to clarify their point, otherwise they would not have spent
their time in the first place.*Only then* can some files be uploaded
to check some very uncommon settings or the report be marked as
invalid or whatever is the most appropriate.

If the checkers continue to become more and more inflexible on this
file issue, the risks are that some reporters will probably drop
their cases and their involvement in this forum; the related bugs will
remain within LO for a long time...

Is this what the checkers and LO community really need?

Thanks for your attention.

Jean-Christophe

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Calc: let things such as formulas do the rest of the work

2014-06-11 Thread Charles-H. Schulz


Hello David,

Le 11.06.2014 11:52, david_lynch a écrit :

I sent the message below to the users list. The moderator replied that
I should raise the issues on this list.

In a recent Macro's in Libre Calc thread, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak,
an expert on macros, wrote:

Be certain to only do what you really need to do using a macro, and
then let things such as formulas do the rest of the work.

Good advice, which I would like to take further. It is frustrating, as
a user, not to be able to use formulas to do things that a macro could
do. I'd like to propose as a (long-term) design aim:

Enrich the functionality of Calc to enable formulas and similar to do
what currently needs a macro. Use experience gained to influence the
OpenFormula specification.

As a simple example, take REPLACE
REPLACE(Text; Position; Length; NewText)
My spreadsheets would be greatly simplified if Text and NewText could
be regular expressions. Currently, either I have to use macros, or use
SEARCH, which does support regular expressions, and code the NewText
regular expression myself. It's frustrating as the code to do what I
want is in the Edit - Find  Replace... dialog. Note that the
enhanced REPLACE would be OpenFormula compliant.
Another example is character editing within a cell: I realise that
this is more demanding technically.

I seek feedback, advice and, I hope, support. In particular:
1.Are there design aims, or similar, in LibreOffice? If so, who
owns them: does the Engineering Steering Committee have a role here?
2.Should we progress the strategic aspects first? Or should I
propose tactical enhancements such as the one to REPLACE above?
3.How should I push this forward, whether tactically or 
strategically?


David Lynch


I cannot reply to the your first question as I simply don't know the 
answer to this. For your second question, I do not recall the ESC 
discussing this, however you may want to propose tactical enchancements 
(i.e features requests that are well described); if possible, you could 
code them yourself of course. At the end of the day, it will be up to 
the contributors / developers to decide if they want to tackle these 
enhancements or not but surely something well documented does help. 
Forget about the strategy - we don't really have one, but focus on what 
you actually and precisely wish for.


For your third question, I suggest first opening a page on our wiki: 
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org , describing the problem, the need, 
etc. Then move on to our bugzilla and file a bug report, or rather an 
enhancement. Note that for various technical reasons you may end up 
filing several of them if you feel you are requesting several separate 
enhancements leading to the solution.


I hope this helps,

Charles.


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Re: [board-discuss] board meeting today

2014-05-28 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

I will not be able to join :-)

Best,

Charles.

On 28 mai 2014 11:22:16 CEST, Florian Effenberger 
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
Hello,

I'd like to remind everyone of today's board meeting, which happens at 
1500 UTC.

The agenda and the dial-in details are available as usual at 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/BoD_Meetings

Looking forward to hearing you!
Florian

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Re: [tdf-discuss] OT - Call for speakers announcements?

2014-02-15 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Le Mon, 10 Feb 2014 11:27:56 -0700,
CS DBA cs_...@consistentstate.com a écrit :

 Hi All;
 
 We're hosting a conference in April and we're looking for speakers 
 (www.opendatasummit.com).
 
 Would it be appropriate to post the call for speakers announcement
 here? or is there a better list?
 
 Thanks in advance
 

market...@global.libreoffice.org would be better :-)

Best,

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Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice not responding

2014-01-24 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Mr Omazic,

It sounds like what you need is professional support:
http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/developers/

Best regards,

Charles-H. Schulz.

Le Fri, 24 Jan 2014 02:48:56 -0800 (PST),
IOmazic ioma...@wmo.int a écrit :

 Hi,
 
 I am working in one agency under UN and we are now deciding whit which
 office suite to replace our ms office 2003. 
 We would like to be pioneers under UN to present that LibreOffice is
 more than good choice to go with. 
 
 And here goes my reason of opening new topic, as first of all we need
 to test new suits, before decision is going to be made, we are having
 some problems during tests with crashing/not responding, some
 functions are not working like: Combining data from 2 spreadsheets,
 etc.  
 
 We are using Windows 7 x64 Sp1, LibreOffice 4.1.4.2, Java 7u45 (and
 on some workstations Java 7u51).
 
 How can we get help regarding our problems?
 
 Kind regards,
 Ivan Omazic
 
 
 
 --
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 http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice-not-responding-tp4093758.html
 Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
 



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Re: [tdf-discuss] Page format

2013-11-17 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Greg,

What do you mean? What are the extensions of your documents?  I.E. do
you have .xls documents, .doc...?

Thanks,

Charles.


Le Sun, 17 Nov 2013 06:16:46 -0800 (PST),
greg winning gregwinn...@hotmail.com a écrit :

 Since downloading Libre, half my documents are spreadsheet and the
 other half normal office.
 
 
 
 --
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 from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
 



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[board-discuss] Nominating Eliane Domingos de Sousa for the Board of Directors

2013-10-24 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello,

I'd like to nominate Eliane Domingos de Sousa for the upcoming
elections at the Board of Directors. Eliane has worked with Olivier for
LibreOffice in Brazil and I think everyone who knows her knows her
achievements. She will bring a less technical touch to the board, but
certainly true voice from the community with the spirit and the full
intent of getting things done.

Best regards,

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Re: [board-discuss] Resignation

2013-10-21 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1



Le Mon, 21 Oct 2013 10:44:20 -0200,
Olivier Hallot olivier.hal...@documentfoundation.org a écrit :

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 Hello Fridrich
 
 Em 21-10-2013 08:34, Fridrich Strba escreveu:
  I, Fridrich Strba, hereby resign from The Document Foundation
  Membership Committee, as well as from my role as the Membership
  Committee Chairman, effective immediately.
  
 
 Indeed, with deep regret to see you going. My best wishes for your new
 challenges.  Keep in touch.


I'm sorry to see you go Fridrich. Very  sorry. Thank you for all you've
done for this project and this foundation.

Best regards,

- -- 
Charles-H. Schulz 
Co-founder  Director, The Document Foundation,
Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin
Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
Mobile Number: +33 (0)6 98 65 54 24.

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 zËÛh¶¬+-Â)emênnX«r¯yÖ§uÆ§[y×¥z×

Re: [tdf-discuss] May-September 2013 profits losses

2013-10-17 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Le Wed, 16 Oct 2013 23:24:28 +0200,
Thorsten Behrens t...@documentfoundation.org a écrit :

 I wrote:
  Apologies for the substantial lag in reporting TDF finance updates,
  but you notice the large increase in donations - since that went
  largely in via PayPal, our earlier scripted import + manual handling
  of PayPal idiosyncrasis became intractable. It is now fully
  scripted.
  
 Just in case someone is curious - here's the code:
 
  https://github.com/tdf/pygnclib (concardis.py  paypal.py)
 
 :)
 
 Cheers,
 
 -- Thorsten
 

Ah - that's where it was :-) 

Thanks!

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[board-discuss] Away for two weeks

2013-08-10 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello everyone,

I'll be away on vacations with my family for two weeks and will have
almost no internet access.  If the board needs to join me I can get text
messages of course.

Best regards,

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Libre Office for Android

2013-06-25 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Gordon,

Le Tue, 25 Jun 2013 13:09:29 +0100,
Gordon Burgess-Parker gbpli...@gmail.com a écrit :

 Can anyone say how this is coming on? The latest I can find on the
 web was about this time last year...
 
 Cheers
 

http://www.muktware.com/5553/install-libreoffice-android
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice_on_Android

Best,

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Re: [board-discuss] hiring Christian Lohmaier

2013-06-11 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

+1

Charles.


Michael Meeks michael.me...@suse.com a écrit :

On Mon, 2013-06-10 at 23:04 +0200, Italo Vignoli wrote:
  After the contract has been drafted now and sent to the board in
  private, I hereby ask the board to
 
  1. vote on hiring Christian Lohmaier, for a limited period of
one
  year, part-time with 20 hours per week, specifically for web
  development, at costs not exceeding 25.000 € per year,
 
  2. authorize Thorsten Behrens and me to sign the work contract
on
  behalf of TDF

   +1 there is lots that needs doing that fits Christian's skills.

   Thanks !

   Michael.

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Re: [board-discuss] Reminder: BoD call tomorrow

2013-05-28 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

I will be at the Linux solutions expo and.therefore I don't think I'll be able 
to make it. I thus nominate Bjoern, Jesus or Andreas to replace me.

Best,
Charles.


Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org a écrit :
Hello,

this is a short reminder that tomorrow, May 29th, we have our next
board 
call.

The dial-in details as well as an agenda are available at 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/BoD_Meetings

Right now, there are now agenda items listed. If anyone has a topic to 
discuss, please add it in time - otherwise I propose we adjourn the
call 
and meet two weeks later.

Florian

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Donations system: pay for a feature

2013-05-16 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Carlo,

Le jeudi 16 mai 2013 à 09:09 +0200, Carlo Strata a écrit :
 Hi Everyone,
 
 in any case (!) none has answered to my initial question and moreover 
 has to be avoided changing the thread object and throw away one person's 
 suggest or a simply discuss. So that now I have to renew my question 
 with another all new post!!! Thank you!
 
 [OT] I have donate to LibreOffice some money and sure many of my time 
 since 28.09.2010 to spread his use, to make it in mind to many people in 
 Italy and in my local engineer professional association.
 

Thank you a lot BTW!

 In any case I think that resources like University Students, Google SoC, 
 ... are and remain useful to both sides ;-) (TDF/Community/Users and 
 Students themselfes).
 
 I also want to find an approved new feature list in TDF or LibreOffice 
 site...

I think we do have what you are looking for:
https://www.libreoffice.org/features/ (and linked pages from there)
https://www.libreoffice.org/index.php/download/4-0-new-features-and-fixes/

and of course, the wiki pages:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.0

Hope this helps,

Charles.


 
 Have all a sunny day,
 
 Carlo
 
 ing. Carlo Strata
 -
 via Botticelli 1/4
 30031 Dolo - VE
 Italia - Italy
 -
 tel./fax +39.041.822.0665
 cell. +39.347.85.69.824
 Skype carlo.strata
 Google carlo.strata.69
 -
 carlo.str...@tiscali.it
 PEC: carlo.str...@ingpec.eu
 
 Il 16/05/2013 01.58, Steve Edmonds ha scritto:
 
  On 2013-05-16 07:45, Joel Madero wrote:
 
  Any payments and/or donations must be accounted for and if the person
  paying has any intent it to go to xyz, then by regulations we may 
  need to
  account for that payment/donation and where it went to.
 
  That is the real problem with targeted donations and payments.  
  There will
  be a mess in paperwork to deal with it.  Opt in, opt out, What it 
  was used
  for.  Keeping track of all of who pays what, for what, can cost more 
  than
  thepayment in paperwork and legal fees.
 
  This has been discussed quite a bit on user list and brought up 
  during ESC
  at some point and I thought the consensus was we'll just let them do 
  what
  they want and not endorse, support, etc... any of that. I thought that
  kept us out of legal muddy waters. It'd be similar to me just going to a
  friend who is a programmer and saying dude, can I pay you $100 to 
  fix this
  issue - a contract completely out of TDF's hands.
 
 
  Best,
  Joel
  Would this paid for feature not then create a fork in the code, then 
  are you committing to maintaining that branch until some time (may be 
  never) that the branch feature is voted into the main code base. It 
  seems a bit impractical when you have a continually evolving product 
  to pay to add a feature unless you are assured it will be included in 
  the main code base and maintained.
  Steve
 
 
 


-- 
Charles-H. Schulz
Co-Founder  Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint




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Re: [tdf-discuss] Donations system: pay for a feature

2013-05-16 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Carlo,

Le jeudi 16 mai 2013 à 14:07 +0200, Carlo Strata a écrit :
 Hi Charles,
 
 thank you very much but with approved new feature I meant next 
 releases features that are not yet implemented but wanted features, 
 wanted by Community and/or TDF.
 
 I have found something similar here:
 https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA
 
 in the Enhancement requests (experimental) link that take you here:
 https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Vote_for_Enhancement
 
 that is, obviously, a set of collected enhanced issues...
 I also remember that the initial pdf/a develop was done by an Italian 
 developer...
 
 I think to be part of the big the digital preservation of electronic 
 documents business is one of the good thing to pursuit.
 
 In the famous release plan page would be useful to put the features that 
 TDF, Developer and Community intend to include in each version: if you 
 want say it a featured road map, something like this:
 http://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/1.5.x_Roadmap
 
 Have a nice afternoon,


We do indeed have a few dedicated page in the wiki as you pointed out,
but as you know we don't have a roadmap they way it is classically
understood; release notes exist however not just at the time of the
release and appear much earlier, in this sense, they are the next
features page you may be looking for.

best,

Charles.

 
 Carlo
 
 ing. Carlo Strata
 -
 via Botticelli 1/4
 30031 Dolo - VE
 Italia - Italy
 -
 tel./fax +39.041.822.0665
 cell. +39.347.85.69.824
 Skype carlo.strata
 Google carlo.strata.69
 -
 carlo.str...@tiscali.it
 PEC: carlo.str...@ingpec.eu
 
 Il 16/05/2013 10.50, Charles-H. Schulz ha scritto:
  Hello Carlo,
 
  Le jeudi 16 mai 2013 à 09:09 +0200, Carlo Strata a écrit :
  Hi Everyone,
 
  in any case (!) none has answered to my initial question and moreover
  has to be avoided changing the thread object and throw away one person's
  suggest or a simply discuss. So that now I have to renew my question
  with another all new post!!! Thank you!
 
  [OT] I have donate to LibreOffice some money and sure many of my time
  since 28.09.2010 to spread his use, to make it in mind to many people in
  Italy and in my local engineer professional association.
 
  Thank you a lot BTW!
 
  In any case I think that resources like University Students, Google SoC,
  ... are and remain useful to both sides ;-) (TDF/Community/Users and
  Students themselfes).
 
  I also want to find an approved new feature list in TDF or LibreOffice
  site...
  I think we do have what you are looking for:
  https://www.libreoffice.org/features/ (and linked pages from there)
  https://www.libreoffice.org/index.php/download/4-0-new-features-and-fixes/
 
  and of course, the wiki pages:
  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.0
 
  Hope this helps,
 
  Charles.
 
 
  Have all a sunny day,
 
  Carlo
 
  ing. Carlo Strata
  -
  via Botticelli 1/4
  30031 Dolo - VE
  Italia - Italy
  -
  tel./fax +39.041.822.0665
  cell. +39.347.85.69.824
  Skype carlo.strata
  Google carlo.strata.69
  -
  carlo.str...@tiscali.it
  PEC: carlo.str...@ingpec.eu
 
  Il 16/05/2013 01.58, Steve Edmonds ha scritto:
  On 2013-05-16 07:45, Joel Madero wrote:
  Any payments and/or donations must be accounted for and if the person
  paying has any intent it to go to xyz, then by regulations we may
  need to
  account for that payment/donation and where it went to.
 
  That is the real problem with targeted donations and payments.
  There will
  be a mess in paperwork to deal with it.  Opt in, opt out, What it
  was used
  for.  Keeping track of all of who pays what, for what, can cost more
  than
  thepayment in paperwork and legal fees.
  This has been discussed quite a bit on user list and brought up
  during ESC
  at some point and I thought the consensus was we'll just let them do
  what
  they want and not endorse, support, etc... any of that. I thought that
  kept us out of legal muddy waters. It'd be similar to me just going to a
  friend who is a programmer and saying dude, can I pay you $100 to
  fix this
  issue - a contract completely out of TDF's hands.
 
 
  Best,
  Joel
  Would this paid for feature not then create a fork in the code, then
  are you committing to maintaining that branch until some time (may be
  never) that the branch feature is voted into the main code base. It
  seems a bit impractical when you have a continually evolving product
  to pay to add a feature unless you are assured it will be included in
  the main code base and maintained.
  Steve
 
 
 
 
 


-- 
Charles-H. Schulz
Co-Founder  Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint




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Re: [board-discuss] Board Strategy Meeting

2013-05-12 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Florian,

Le vendredi 10 mai 2013 à 18:41 +0200, Florian Effenberger a écrit :
 Hello,
 
 TDF is developing rapidly, so are the challenges we have to face, the 
 decisions we have to make, and the strategy we have to develop. In 
 addition, we intend to run the board elections this fall, approximately 
 shortly after LibOCon, to give the new board enough time to learn until 
 the official duty hand-over in February 2014.
 
 Given that several board members already proposed to meet dedicatedly 
 for strategy, I would like to propose hosting a
 
 Board Strategy Meeting
 
 this summer. The intend is to have as many board members as possible - 
 ideally everyone - at the same physical location, dedicatedly talking 
 about strategy and future planning.
 
 There is a variety of topics on the table, and I think having a real 
 life meeting is much better than any sort of virtual meeting. Having 
 this meeting next to the LibreOffice Conference doesn't sound wise to 
 me, as we all know how busy these days usually are.
 
 Before I send out a Doodle from June to September, I'd like to hear your 
 availability options. ;-) It might make sense to host the event at a 
 central location, during a weekend, so many people can participate.
 
 Can all board members give me feedback on when is best (or when it 
 doesn't work out at all), so I can send out a Doodle poll soon?

Please do.Just be aware that, as for myself, I'm moving in a new
apartment, so I'll be unavailable around mid July - say from the 7th to
the 15th). I'll be very busy from the 9th to the 16th of June (work +
business travel). As for the month of August, I'll be on vacations from
the 12th to the 27th of August.

Best,

Charles.

 
 Thanks,
 Florian
 
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Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint




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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-23 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Russ,

Le lundi 22 avril 2013 à 17:40 -0700, Upscope a écrit :

 Quote
  I remember seeing a discussion about the White Paper, and I hope that
  translations to other languages will be done.
  
  That will help a lot.
  
  Here in Canada, the Quebec government is about to spend 1.4 billion $
  to upgrade 500,000 desktops from MSO 2003 to MSO 2013.
  This is only the provincial public service and does not include
  municipal/city-level public service with approx another 300,000.
  
  The original intent of my message (sorry if I used the wrong mailing
  list) was to make a blog post to say that we as a community are aware
  of the end-of-life for MSO 2003 that is less than a year away, and
  here are some reasons why you should make the switch.
  
  Yes, the formats are not perfect, and yes the license is free.
  But most important, LibreOffice has 99% (?) of the same
  functionalities of MSO and answers the need of 99% (?) of end-users,
  either individuals or business.
 
 I have to disagree with the above statement. There are still significant 
 problems with .docx documents in writer. All text type documents work, 
 but recieve something with grapic in it and the conversion does not work 
 correctly. i reports this way back on 3.x and 4.0. Still not fixed in 
 4.0.2. It occurs both in the openSUSE branded version and the version 
 direct from LibreOffice.
 
 If everybody is going to be abadoning .doc this needs to be fixed. I 
 final may have found when it occurs today and will report it. (has to do 
 with text wraping around the graphic).
 
 Don't get me wrong I use LibreOfiice exclusively and like it. 
 
 And to let you know alot of the .docx documents I get are from B.C. I'm 
 in Washinton, close neighor to them.

I think it's important to clarify Italo's comment. We don't just think
that since we know it will never be perfect, we don't work on the OOXML
filters. Actually there's been some massive work done on them, and it is
an ever ongoing work. But it is also important to realize that OOXML is
a highly complex format that we have to reimplement (the spec helps, but
there's much more to it) and  therefore it takes a long time to get it
right. Note that one outcome of this is that we get better with time
(today, the MS Office formats from MS Office 97, 2000 or 2003 really
work well) and another factor to take into account is how the users of
both LibreOffice and MS Office actually use the software. Someone typing
only bold letters for the title or paragraph headers is not going to get
the best result regardless of the suite he/she uses.

best,
Charles. 






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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-23 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Le mardi 23 avril 2013 à 07:42 -0700, Pedro a écrit :
 Hi upscope
 
 
 upscope wrote
  I will be glad to supply the document if it would help, and the author 
  agrees (should be no problem). Let me know if that will help. 
 
 Of course it helps! Please submit the document and any problems you find
 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=LibreOffice
 
 
 upscope wrote
  Thanks for your interest and I'll keep testing new version until it 
  works. 
 
 Don't just wait for a version to work for you. Submitting  the bugs,
 documents, problems you find will increase the *chances* that your problems
 are fixed...
 
 Although submitting bugs/documents is no guarantee that any developer will
 look at them or fix them, NOT submitting is our worst possible option :)

I have to concur with Pedro. Indeed, if you can it is best to submit a
bug report containing the document itself and run some easy but
preliminary tests: do the formatting problem remain the same with the
platform (i.e mac, windows, linux... different versions of Windows?),
etc.

best,

-- 
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Co-Founder  Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint




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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-22 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Jonathan,

This is the wrong list I'm afraid. But to answer your question directly:
we already are using such channels. See the various lists (marketing@)
for more info.

best,
Charles.

Le lundi 22 avril 2013 à 16:28 +0200, Jonathan Aquilina a écrit :
 Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides social
 networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an
 advertisement campaing through google adwords?
 
 That would be a great way to get the notion out there that there are
 alternatives and that LO exists. especially since the links come up when
 doing a search.
 
 
 On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.comwrote:
 
  This mailing list is not dead, but we are all volunteers and we all have
  a family and a work to pay our bills. Sometimes, to reply to messages it
  takes some time.
 
  On 4/22/13 10:06 AM, Pedro wrote:
 
   Regarding your subject, I think that LibreOffice could target those users
   but there are two obstacles: the file conversion is not perfect AND (most
   important) those users are already too used to MS Office. It is easier to
   convince new users to work with a different product than to teach new
  tricks
   to old dogs.
 
  This does not reflect the reality, where most LibreOffice (and
  OpenOffice) users are coming from the Microsoft field, because they are
  fed up with license costs or simply looking for an alternative (this is
  the most frequent approach).
 
  The end of life for MS Office 2003 is a significant problem for
  companies, but not for individuals. Targeting companies is definitely
  more difficult than targeting individuals, but as far as I know most of
  them are already trying to manage the problem - at least in Europe - and
  many of them are looking at migrating to free software.
 
  TDF has published a white paper about migrating from Microsoft Office to
  LibreOffice, which is being translated in several languages. We can use
  such a document to educate companies and we can even make a version
  targeted to MS Office 2003 users.
 
  The fact that the file conversion is not perfect is not going to change.
  It will never be perfect, because Microsoft is deliberatedly creating
  formats which are impossible to emulate in order to reduce the
  interoperability (interoperability is the death of lock in, and lock in
  is the cornerstone of Microsoft business model).
 
  On the other hand, placing a counter on our website would not reach the
  potential target of MS Office 2003 users, unless they already know free
  software and LibreOffice (which would put them in a different group).
 
  We should make some hard noise in the Windows environment, using social
  media and traditional media. Let's brainstorm about a specific message
  for this target group.
 
  --
  Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
  mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
  skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com
 
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?

2013-04-22 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Re to myself: actually the mailing list you use  is the right one but
not its label (it's not board-discuss)...

best,
Charles. 

Le lundi 22 avril 2013 à 16:28 +0200, Jonathan Aquilina a écrit :
 Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides social
 networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an
 advertisement campaing through google adwords?
 
 That would be a great way to get the notion out there that there are
 alternatives and that LO exists. especially since the links come up when
 doing a search.
 
 
 On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.comwrote:
 
  This mailing list is not dead, but we are all volunteers and we all have
  a family and a work to pay our bills. Sometimes, to reply to messages it
  takes some time.
 
  On 4/22/13 10:06 AM, Pedro wrote:
 
   Regarding your subject, I think that LibreOffice could target those users
   but there are two obstacles: the file conversion is not perfect AND (most
   important) those users are already too used to MS Office. It is easier to
   convince new users to work with a different product than to teach new
  tricks
   to old dogs.
 
  This does not reflect the reality, where most LibreOffice (and
  OpenOffice) users are coming from the Microsoft field, because they are
  fed up with license costs or simply looking for an alternative (this is
  the most frequent approach).
 
  The end of life for MS Office 2003 is a significant problem for
  companies, but not for individuals. Targeting companies is definitely
  more difficult than targeting individuals, but as far as I know most of
  them are already trying to manage the problem - at least in Europe - and
  many of them are looking at migrating to free software.
 
  TDF has published a white paper about migrating from Microsoft Office to
  LibreOffice, which is being translated in several languages. We can use
  such a document to educate companies and we can even make a version
  targeted to MS Office 2003 users.
 
  The fact that the file conversion is not perfect is not going to change.
  It will never be perfect, because Microsoft is deliberatedly creating
  formats which are impossible to emulate in order to reduce the
  interoperability (interoperability is the death of lock in, and lock in
  is the cornerstone of Microsoft business model).
 
  On the other hand, placing a counter on our website would not reach the
  potential target of MS Office 2003 users, unless they already know free
  software and LibreOffice (which would put them in a different group).
 
  We should make some hard noise in the Windows environment, using social
  media and traditional media. Let's brainstorm about a specific message
  for this target group.
 
  --
  Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
  mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
  skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com
 
  --
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  deleted
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 Jonathan Aquilina
 
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Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint




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[board-discuss] Deputy for today's call

2013-04-17 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello,

I won't be available today for the board meeting. Given that Jesus will 
represent Olivier, I would like to appoint Bjoern and/or Andreas to represent 
me at the meeting.

Best,
Charles.
-- 
Envoyé de mon téléphone avec Kaiten Mail. Excusez la brièveté.

Re: [board-discuss] new BoD call time due to daylight saving time

2013-04-02 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Le lundi 01 avril 2013 à 17:44 +0200, Florian Effenberger a écrit :
 Hi,
 
 Norbert Thiebaud wrote on 2013-03-31 20:17:
  but..._practically_  the meeting time is adjusted so that it always
  occurs at the same CET time. so the announce could be made using UTC
  for convenience, but in fact that UTC time has changed and will change
  according to the DST setting of CET... so instead of figuring out how
  many hours behind 3,4,5 you are from CET, you have to pay attention to
  the specific UTC time of the meeting, which will vary up to 2 hours
  depending on the specific date of the meeting.
 
 what about my proposal:
 
 We do a vote on having it 1500 UTC during European daylight savings, and 
 1600 UTC during the European winter months. That way, the reference time 
 is CE(S)T, but we would have UTC as official time, making conversions 
 easier.
 
 Florian
 

+1

-- 
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Co-Founder  Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint

Re: [tdf-discuss] Open source and open formats

2013-03-23 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Pedro,

I understand your question in a different way. No one can prohibit a gpl 
software to be sold andno one can prohibit it to its downstream distributor. 
But it looks like this software is licensed under a CC licence, non commercial, 
BY and SA, which does make its open source nature problematic and not GPL. 

As for ODF the Oasis is in charge of developing it but the promotion campaigns 
are supposed to be shared by various groups and various implementors. TDF is 
however not responsible for OX'own wording.


Tony Pursell a...@princeswalk.fsnet.co.uk a écrit :

Hi Pedro

On 23 March 2013 09:48, Pedro pedl...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi all

 In the sequence of this topic at the Marketing list


http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Open-Xchange-to-launch-open-source-browser-based-office-suite-tp4045197.html

 I share Simon Phipps' concern that the company announces a GPL Open
Source
 office suite which is not free for commercial use???

 Is this even possible under GPL?
 This just spreads further confusion on how free Open Source software
really
 is...

 Another sentence that worries me is Microsoft Word .docx files and
 OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice .odt files

 This is bad marketing and bad public image that ODT seems to be
proprietary
 of OpenOffice and LibreOffice. And yet I don't see any concerns about
this
 in the topic commenting the news article.

 Shouldn't TDF be championing the ODF open formats or is this an OASIS
job?


Nothing in the GPL licence, or, as far as I know, any other Open Source
licence, prevents someone from charging for the supply of an Open
Source
product.  Many Open Source products are, of course, available free of
charge, but there can be many circumstances where a charge needs to be
made
for the delivery of a product to the customer, or for supporting the
customer's use of a product and these would seem to be what
Open-Xchange
are charging for.

Tony

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Dual licensing of patches and code

2013-03-11 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Jim,

There's something quite wrong in this conversation. Some entity -a
corporation or a government- has approached you and asked you questions
on how to contribute to LibreOffice (by the way, please be so kind as
using the term LibreOffice and not LO). 

As the Chairman of the Apache Software Foundation the useful and
effective thing to do is to point this entity directly at the Document
Foundation. It is not up to the ASF to speak on behalf of the Document
Foundation, but you obviously know this as you came here to ask your
question on this mailing list and I thank you for doing so. At this
stage let me reiterate that if this entity you have mentioned
repeatedly has questions about possible contributions to LibreOffice,
these should be directed to the Document Foundation and not to any
other foundation.

For the record, the Document Foundation has not been contacted
(privately or publicly) by anyone but you with respect to a triple
licensing scheme for contributing to LibreOffice. 

Best regards,

-- 
Charles-H. Schulz 
Co-founder  Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
Mobile Number: +33 (0)6 98 65 54 24.



Le Mon, 11 Mar 2013 09:35:08 -0400,
Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com a écrit :

 exhaustively, yes, but not concretely. The exhaustive reply
 boils down to it depends, which is really no answer at
 all. Furthermore, it implies that the simply inclusion of
 the alv2 as part of the license suite *does* change
 the dynamic, since something provided under mpl-lgplv3
 as not handed the same way it depends... Furthermore
 it does not describe the actual mechanism.
 
 I will be blunt: it certainly *appears* that all this hand
 waving is being done to be able to accept code when
 it is beneficial to LO only, and not accept code when
 it is beneficial to LO *and* AOO, as code under alv2-mpl-lgplv3
 would be, except for small code patches and fixes that
 have no real value. Such a it depends policy allows
 this, and this is the core of the question. The people who
 contacted me specifically wanted to provide code to LO,
 that merged with LO w/ no conflicts, would require extensive
 re-work to be folded into AOO, but would be licensed under
 the alv2 and were told that the inclusion of the alv2
 as the license of the donation was unacceptable. When
 asked if dual or triple licensing was acceptable, they
 were told No. To them, it appeared that the *mere
 possibility* that it could be used by AOO, even though
 their people are being paid to work on LO, was enough
 to prevent their work being even considered.
 
 Will the ASF and AOO accept code licensed in such a way
 that it can be directly consumed by AOO and LO: The answer is yes.
 
 Will the TDF and LO accept code licensed in such a way
 that it can be directly consumed by AOO and LO: The answer is
 it depends... the logical assumption regarding WHY is
 not-complimentary to TDF and LO, nor is it beneficial to
 the OO ecosystem itself, nor is the policy defined enough
 that code providers know what to do.
 
 On Mar 11, 2013, at 6:55 AM, Thorsten Behrens
 t...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
 
  Jim Jagielski wrote:
  Bjoern Michaelsen bjoern.michael...@canonical.com wrote:
  That was not what either Florian or the policy said. This is a
  matter of community, not just of license. Such combinations of
  licenses do not lead to a contribution being automatically
  accepted or rejected, either at Apache or at TDF, we look at each
  case on its merits.
  
  
  That is true, and I, of course, understand that. The question is
  whether such a triple-licensed patch would be rejected *regardless*
  of technical merit, and that is a valid question to ask.
  
  Hi Jim,
  
  Florian answered that exhaustively in his earlier email:
  
  On Mar 7, 2013, Florian Effenberger wrote:
  as our licensing page states, in order to contribute to
  LibreOffice and be part of our community, we require a
  dual-license of MPL/LGPLv3+ for contributions, which gives
  everyone the benefit of the strong rights these licenses
  grant. From time to time, depending on the specific case and the
  quality of the code, we may use and merge other licensed pieces of
  code with compatible licenses. We examine each case, depending on
  its merits.
  
  In theory, code under a triple license is just as acceptable. In
  practice, however, TDF has hundreds of affiliated developers
  working as a team together, doing the actual code review and
  acceptance work. There is a spectrum of developer opinion on your
  nurturing of a competing project. Many core developers may be less
  inclined to invest their time into significant, active assistance:
  mentoring, reviewing, finding code pointers, merging, back
  porting, and so on, for functionality that will not provide a
  distinctive value for LibreOffice.
  
  So, while there may be many possible acceptable

Re: [tdf-discuss] Dual licensing of patches and code

2013-03-11 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Jim,

I do not know who made these assertions to this entity, however it is
really important to understand that it was not the Document
Foundation. We have never been in contact with such parties. 

Let me stress again that it is necessary for this entity to contact us
directly.

Thanks,

Charles.  

Le Mon, 11 Mar 2013 10:38:44 -0400,
Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com a écrit :

 As stated, they contacted me because they had been
 told that such licensing was not accepted to BOTH
 parties, not just one. This should have been clear
 from my 1st post. That is why I asked both parties.
 
 On Mar 11, 2013, at 10:25 AM, Charles-H. Schulz
 charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
 
  Hello Jim,
  
  There's something quite wrong in this conversation. Some entity -a
  corporation or a government- has approached you and asked you
  questions on how to contribute to LibreOffice (by the way, please
  be so kind as using the term LibreOffice and not LO). 
  
  As the Chairman of the Apache Software Foundation the useful and
  effective thing to do is to point this entity directly at the
  Document Foundation. It is not up to the ASF to speak on behalf of
  the Document Foundation, but you obviously know this as you came
  here to ask your question on this mailing list and I thank you for
  doing so. At this stage let me reiterate that if this entity you
  have mentioned repeatedly has questions about possible
  contributions to LibreOffice, these should be directed to the
  Document Foundation and not to any other foundation.
  
  For the record, the Document Foundation has not been contacted
  (privately or publicly) by anyone but you with respect to a triple
  licensing scheme for contributing to LibreOffice. 
  
  Best regards,
  
  -- 
  Charles-H. Schulz 
  Co-founder  Director, The Document Foundation,
  Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
  Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
  Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
  Mobile Number: +33 (0)6 98 65 54 24.
  
  
  
  Le Mon, 11 Mar 2013 09:35:08 -0400,
  Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com a écrit :
  
  exhaustively, yes, but not concretely. The exhaustive reply
  boils down to it depends, which is really no answer at
  all. Furthermore, it implies that the simply inclusion of
  the alv2 as part of the license suite *does* change
  the dynamic, since something provided under mpl-lgplv3
  as not handed the same way it depends... Furthermore
  it does not describe the actual mechanism.
  
  I will be blunt: it certainly *appears* that all this hand
  waving is being done to be able to accept code when
  it is beneficial to LO only, and not accept code when
  it is beneficial to LO *and* AOO, as code under alv2-mpl-lgplv3
  would be, except for small code patches and fixes that
  have no real value. Such a it depends policy allows
  this, and this is the core of the question. The people who
  contacted me specifically wanted to provide code to LO,
  that merged with LO w/ no conflicts, would require extensive
  re-work to be folded into AOO, but would be licensed under
  the alv2 and were told that the inclusion of the alv2
  as the license of the donation was unacceptable. When
  asked if dual or triple licensing was acceptable, they
  were told No. To them, it appeared that the *mere
  possibility* that it could be used by AOO, even though
  their people are being paid to work on LO, was enough
  to prevent their work being even considered.
  
  Will the ASF and AOO accept code licensed in such a way
  that it can be directly consumed by AOO and LO: The answer is yes.
  
  Will the TDF and LO accept code licensed in such a way
  that it can be directly consumed by AOO and LO: The answer is
  it depends... the logical assumption regarding WHY is
  not-complimentary to TDF and LO, nor is it beneficial to
  the OO ecosystem itself, nor is the policy defined enough
  that code providers know what to do.
  
  On Mar 11, 2013, at 6:55 AM, Thorsten Behrens
  t...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
  
  Jim Jagielski wrote:
  Bjoern Michaelsen bjoern.michael...@canonical.com wrote:
  That was not what either Florian or the policy said. This is a
  matter of community, not just of license. Such combinations of
  licenses do not lead to a contribution being automatically
  accepted or rejected, either at Apache or at TDF, we look at
  each case on its merits.
  
  
  That is true, and I, of course, understand that. The question is
  whether such a triple-licensed patch would be rejected
  *regardless* of technical merit, and that is a valid question to
  ask.
  
  Hi Jim,
  
  Florian answered that exhaustively in his earlier email:
  
  On Mar 7, 2013, Florian Effenberger wrote:
  as our licensing page states, in order to contribute to
  LibreOffice and be part of our community, we require a
  dual-license of MPL/LGPLv3+ for contributions, which gives
  everyone the benefit of the strong rights these licenses
  grant. From time to time, depending

[board-discuss] BoD call tomorrow?

2013-03-05 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hi,

Are we supposed to have a call tomorrow? If yes I will be travelling at that 
time and appoint Jésus, Bjoern and Andreas in no particular order to replace me.

Thanks,
Charles
-- 
Envoyé de mon téléphone avec Kaiten Mail. Excusez la brièveté.

Re: [board-discuss] renaming @documentfoundation.org mailing lists

2013-02-23 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Florian,

Le samedi 23 février 2013 à 19:03 +0100, Florian Effenberger a écrit :
 Hello,
 
 quite a while ago, we have renamed the @libreoffice.org mailing lists to 
 @global.libreoffice.org for technical reasons. I'd now like to do the 
 same for the @documentfoundation.org mailing lists, namely
 
   - announce
   - board-discuss
   - discuss
   - mirrors
   - moderators
   - test
 
 The reason behind is that I'd like to split up our mail system into two 
 instances for reasons of load balancing and security. One should contain 
 all private mailing lists as well as e-mail accounts, the other one 
 should contain all public mailing lists. The fact that all our 
 communication tools are on one system at the moment is quite unfortunate.
 
 At @documentfoundation.org, we not only host public mailing lists, but 
 also e-mail accounts. One way to achieve the distinction on the server 
 side is to create a forwarding/transport in the mail system, but I'm not 
 a friend of that, it has a few drawbacks. The other option is to rename 
 the list part, and - like we did with libreoffice.org before - use 
 @global.documentfoundation.org in the future, so each subdomain can be 
 attached to its own MX record (mail server).
 
 Before doing such a change that affects many users, I wanted to ask 
 about your opinion. From a technical point of view, it is IMHO the best 
 solution. Agreeably, it is a bit annoying to update all the website 
 elements and links, and we can do the rename with enough time in 
 advance, but would you generally support this approach?


It will be annoying whatever we change :-)
Is there merit in requesting that, instead of naming global, we use
something like lists.documentfoundation.org or
ml.documentfoundation.org just to shorten the number of letters?

Thanks,
-- 
Charles-H. Schulz
Co-Founder  Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint

Re: [tdf-discuss] How did AOO figure it was worth $21 Million dollars a day or $7 billion per year?

2013-02-19 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Tim,

I suspect they multiply the standard package price of MS Office and
multiply that by their numbers of stated downloads, then divide it by
365. At least that's how I would do it.

best,
Charles. 

Le mardi 19 février 2013 à 12:15 -0500, webmaster-Kracked_P_P a écrit :
 How did AOO figure out how much their version of OOo was worth per day 
 to users?
 
 I cannot figure out any way.  Of course it makes great Marketing Copy.  
 We are giving our users some much product value, we must be the better 
 product.  FUD or what?
 
 ---
 
 http://www.eweek.com/enterprise-apps/apache-openoffice-valued-at-21m-per-day
 
   The Apache Software Foundation (ASF) announced that Apache OpenOffice 
 has a value of $21 million a day.
 
 ASF officials said Apache OpenOffice has averaged 131,455 downloads per 
 day since its 3.4 release last May. That represents an average value to 
 the public of $21 million per day or $7.61 billion per year, ASF said.
 


-- 
Charles-H. Schulz
Co-Founder  Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint




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Re: [tdf-discuss] Python trademark at risk in Europe: Python Software Foundation calls for help

2013-02-16 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Bonsoir Jean-Baptiste,

Indeed we've made contact with them on this issue. Let's hope there's a way to 
solve this.

Best,
Charles.


Jean-Baptiste Faure jbf.fa...@sud-ouest.org a écrit :

Hi,

As LibreOffice uses more and more the Python language, TDF may be
interested by this call for help:
http://pyfound.blogspot.ca/2013/02/python-trademark-at-risk-in-europe-we.html

Best regards
JBF

-- 
Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos
documents.


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Python trademark at risk in Europe: Python Software Foundation calls for help

2013-02-16 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Bonsoir Jean-Baptiste,

Indeed we've made contact with them on this issue. Let's hope there's a way to 
solve this.

Best,
Charles.


Jean-Baptiste Faure jbf.fa...@sud-ouest.org a écrit :

Hi,

As LibreOffice uses more and more the Python language, TDF may be
interested by this call for help:
http://pyfound.blogspot.ca/2013/02/python-trademark-at-risk-in-europe-we.html

Best regards
JBF

-- 
Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos
documents.


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RE: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness

2013-02-15 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Dennis,

Not wanting to feed a big fat troll(the OOXML topic) I srill would like to 
point out that un terms of IPR ODF has a very clean and simple RF basis 
(royalty free) while OOXML is much more unclear on that point although it 
appeaes you don't have to pay fees for implementing what's covered in the ISO 
standard.

Best,

Charles
(who's a former director of the OASIS consortium)


Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org a écrit :

To be clear, the OOXML File Format is the subject of an International
Standard, the same way that ODF is an International Standard.  (OOXML
started off in ECMA, ODF started off in OASIS.  Both are ISO
Standards.)

So the specifications are open and freely available.  You can download
them
for free.

In addition, Microsoft has provided its Open Specification Promise and
other
declarations so that implementations of consumers and producers of the
format are not subject to any patent claims from Microsoft and it is
not
necessary to obtain a license.  Sun did something similar for ODF.

The Microsoft Office *implementation* is not open source.  Likewise,
the
built-in support of ODF in Microsoft Office is not open source.  The
standards for the formats are open.  Open-source implementations are
not
required.

Support for OOXML in products like LibreOffice and Apache OpenOffice,
and in
the Apache POI Project, to name three, is open source -- they are open
source projects and the source code is available under open source
licenses.
Just as support for ODF in LibO, AOO, and the ODF Toolkit is with
open-source code.

-Original Message-
From: lj [mailto:ljelou...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 00:08
To: discuss@documentfoundation.org
Subject: Fwd: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness

-- Forwarded message --
From: lj ljelou...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness
To: dennis.hamil...@acm.org dennis.hamil...@acm.org


Thank you for the explanation of OOXML.
But I am still confused.
To Clear Things Up I need to know if the OOXML File Format, is open
sourced... or proprietary?
(This was probably mentioned before...)
Then I would definitely have a clearer understanding.
Thanks,
LJ


On 08/02/2013, at 5:49 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
dennis.hamil...@acm.org
wrote:

 Yes there is an International Standard for OOXML.  I *suspect* that
the
 provision of two-different Save As ... cases is (1) for the
Transitional
 Standard OOXML which is the closest to what is acceptable by all
Microsoft
 Office applications that accept .docx, .xlsx, and .pptx, and (2) for
Strict
 Standard OOXML that is accepted only by Office 2010 and 2013 and can
be
 produced by 2013.  I have no idea how close the alignment of
LibreOffice
is
 to those two flavors of Standard OOXML, which is a different
question.
 There are those who think that Transitional is somehow not truly
OOXML,
but
 both are specified in the International Standard.  Microsoft Office
also
 takes advantage of the extension mechanism, MCE, that is provided in
the
 International Standard.  I don't know how that sorts out in the
 interoperability between LibreOffice and Microsoft Office using
OOXML.

 The Wikipedia article is not bad.  However, there has been
significant
 maintenance of IS 29500:2008 and that has impacted the original
separation
 of Transitional and Strict by making them syntactically separate
while
 having considerable overlap in terms of function and semantics.  The
current
 edition of the International Standard for OOXML is IS 29500:2012. 
There
is
 also an in-process amendment.

 - Dennis

 -Original Message-
 From: lj [mailto:ljelou...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 15:38
 To: Simon Phipps
 Cc: Jonathan Aquilina; Boudi van Vlijmen;
discuss@documentfoundation.org
 Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness

 Isn't there a standard Office Open XML Document Format?
 What is the difference between office open xml and standard microsoft
docx
 formats in LibreOffice and why does LibreOffice include both?
 is there also a link where I can read about this... the only think I
have
 found useful is what open xml is.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML






 On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Simon Phipps si...@webmink.com
wrote:

 I don't know anyone who uses Office so I'm afraid I can't answer.
That's
 why I send PDFs - everyone can open those and see the same document.

 On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Jonathan Aquilina
eagles051...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 My question though Simon is how well is ODF formatting preserved
when
 opening up ODF formats in office 2010 and above on windows.

 -Original Message-
 From: Simon Phipps [mailto:si...@webmink.com]
 Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 4:11 PM
 To: Boudi van Vlijmen
 Cc: discuss@documentfoundation.org
 Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Help vendor-lock-in awareness

 I generally advise people to send me PDFs rather than editable
documents

Re: [board-discuss] [4.0] Review

2013-02-13 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello K-J,

thanks for your email. You are right but I don't think it will be formal. 
However we must do it one way or another.

Best,
Charles.


klaus-jürgen weghorn ol o...@sophia-louise.de a écrit :

Hi to all board members,
as 4.0.0 is rolled out there should be a review about what happened:

The good points, the bad points
What can we do in the same way, what in a better way the next time?
What is needed to get it better?
A discussion may cause some budget thoughts, community handling,
marketing concepts, Whiteboards, Easy Hacks etc.

IMHO the board should be the starting point and the lead of such a
discussion to give it a direction for the whole community.

What do you think?


-- 
Grüße
k-j

-- 
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Re: [board-discuss] budget for business cards

2013-02-12 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

+1

Charles.


Michael Meeks michael.me...@suse.com a écrit :


On Tue, 2013-02-12 at 11:32 +0100, Florian Effenberger wrote:
 I'd like the board to approve this sum for the production.

   +1

   Michael.

-- 
michael.me...@suse.com  , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot

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Re: [board-discuss] 2013 budget as of today

2013-01-29 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Le mardi 29 janvier 2013 à 17:05 +0100, Sophie Gautier a écrit :
 Hi all,
 On 29/01/2013 12:06, Florian Effenberger wrote:
  Hello,
  
  I have just updated the draft of the TDF budget. It's available at
  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Tdfbudget2013.pdf
  
  The good news is that we have, despite some expenses, grown the total
  amount available, leaving an unallocated amount of approximately 17.000 €.
  
  For SPI, who kindly provide travel funding for many of our events, it
  seems that after lots of payments, there are still 31.000 USD in the
  bank. (Note: This money does not directly belong to TDF and is spent at
  the sole discretion of SPI for the LibreOffice community.)
  
  So, in a nutshell, our donation base is growing, and we should take 4.0
  as a chance to grow it even more, to realize some further plans.
 
 May be that plan could include Moztrap localization capabilities?

That would be wonderful. What would be the expected sum for this?

Thanks,

-- 
Charles-H. Schulz
Co-Founder  Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint

Re: [board-discuss] 2013 budget as of today

2013-01-29 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Le mardi 29 janvier 2013 à 17:33 +0100, Sophie Gautier a écrit :
 Hi Charles, all
 On 29/01/2013 17:18, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
  Le mardi 29 janvier 2013 à 17:05 +0100, Sophie Gautier a écrit :
  Hi all,
  On 29/01/2013 12:06, Florian Effenberger wrote:
  Hello,
 
  I have just updated the draft of the TDF budget. It's available at
  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Tdfbudget2013.pdf
 
  The good news is that we have, despite some expenses, grown the total
  amount available, leaving an unallocated amount of approximately 17.000 €.
 
  For SPI, who kindly provide travel funding for many of our events, it
  seems that after lots of payments, there are still 31.000 USD in the
  bank. (Note: This money does not directly belong to TDF and is spent at
  the sole discretion of SPI for the LibreOffice community.)
 
  So, in a nutshell, our donation base is growing, and we should take 4.0
  as a chance to grow it even more, to realize some further plans.
 
  May be that plan could include Moztrap localization capabilities?
  
  That would be wonderful. What would be the expected sum for this?
 From what I recall it was evaluated to 1month/man.

So that definitely fits within this sum. How much is Norbert's bot?

Best,

-- 
Charles-H. Schulz
Co-Founder  Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint

[board-discuss] Splashscreen Startscreen proposals for the 4.0

2013-01-28 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello,

As the Design team has selected the startscreen and splashscreen for the
upcoming 4.0 release several members of the Board of Directors have felt
the choice was not acceptable for a variety of reasons (too white, too
simple, non-standard logo, not enough green...). 

In general it is not up to the BoD to decide on UX and designs. The
reactions to the choice of the graphical elements for the 4.0 were,
however, quite vocal. I would therefore like to ask the BoD to propose
an alternative choice (and vote on it ASAP), which would be to ship
LibreOffice 4.0 with a slightly modified 3.6.x Splashscreen and
StartCenter (the modifications being the inclusion of the number 4 on
them) and then let the Design team come up with a new design for the
rest of the 4.x branch. 

I realize that we're hijacking several processes here, but several of
the BoD members felt we had to come up with a solution. What's more, I'd
like to sincerely thank the Design team, among them Mirek and Stefan for
their relentless work and contributions; we hope that you will continue
to provide the LibreOffice project with your talent and passion.

Best regards,
-- 
Charles-H. Schulz
Co-Founder  Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint

[board-discuss] Re: Splashscreen Startscreen proposals for the 4.0

2013-01-28 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Stefan,

Le lundi 28 janvier 2013 à 13:34 +0100, Stefan Knorr a écrit :
 Hi Charles,
 
 I am not going to answer to everything here, just on specific point...
 
 On Mon, 2013-01-28 at 11:43 +0100, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
  LibreOffice 4.0 with a slightly modified 3.6.x Splashscreen and
  StartCenter (the modifications being the inclusion of the number 4 on
  them) and then let the Design team come up with a new design for the
 
 Our current splash does not have a version number on it. (And I believe
 it should stay this way – if LibreOffice is out of date in an important
 way, it will alert the user anyway [1], so I see little gain in adding
 the number.)
 

Well, the number would only be a suggestion as to differentiate between
the two splashscreens, but I'm open to suggestions of course.

best,
-- 
Charles-H. Schulz
Co-Founder  Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint

Re: [board-discuss] Splashscreen Startscreen proposals for the 4.0

2013-01-28 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Florian,

Le lundi 28 janvier 2013 à 15:22 +0100, Florian Effenberger a écrit :
 Hello,
 
 after having a call with Thorsten, and thinking a second time about it, 
 I must confess that I have indeed changed my mind on this.
 
 The board should only veto for a very limited set of topics, mostly 
 legal stuff, and normally should not make use of its power as body.
 
 I had, like others, supported a board vote in first place, and based on 
 that support Charles posted this here. Thinking a second time about it 
 makes me feel it was a mistake, and I'm sorry for that.
 
 Rather, for the current discussion, let's talk between the marketing
 team and the design team, at eye-level, and not with the board's
 authority.
 


I'm against a veto, and I have written it elsewhere. I think it would be
a slap in the face of people who obviously don't deserve it. My proposal
and call to vote is very different, it is to come up with an actual
proposal. If we manage to solve it outside the board level, I'm the
first one to be happy (and I didn't like posting the call to vote this
morning); however both the timing and the fact that the initial proposal
has been merged in the main branch prompted for a Notbremse...

Best,
-- 
Charles-H. Schulz
Co-Founder  Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint

Re: [board-discuss] Joining Silicon Sentier

2013-01-17 Thread Charles-H. Schulz




Olivier Hallot olivier.hal...@documentfoundation.org a écrit :

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Em 17-01-2013 11:36, Charles-H. Schulz escreveu:
 Hi,
 
 I would like to ask that TDF joins the Silicon Sentier Association in
 Paris (www.siliconsentier.org) . Silicon was our partner that hosted
the
 first LiboCon but more importantly, the membership comes with the
 ability to run events either for free or with a nice price in the
heart
 of Paris (at La Cantine or elsewhere). 
 
 The membership fee is 179 €. I'd like to ask the BoD members to vote
on
 this asap.
 
 Thanks,
 

+1.
Will La Cantine host the forthcomming (much awaited) Paris LibreOffice
HackFests? 

That's a distinct possibility, yes, but nothing's decided.

Best,
Charles.




Regards
- -- 
Olivier Hallot
Founder, Board of Directors Member - The Document Foundation
The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Fundação responsável civilmente, de acordo com o direito civil
Detalhes Legais: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
LibreOffice translation leader for Brazilian Portuguese
+55-21-8822-8812
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/

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-- 
Envoyé de mon téléphone avec Kaiten Mail. Excusez la brièveté.

Re: [tdf-discuss] new years wishes

2012-12-31 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Cor, all,

Happy New Year!

Best,

Charles.


Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl a écrit :

Wishing you all the best for 2013: love, joy, happiness, inspiration
for 
your work and fun in building and sharing good things in life.

Cor

-- 
  - Cor
  - http://nl.libreoffice.org
  - www.librelex.org


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RE: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [tdf-discuss] Marketing material suggestion: Why LibreOffice?

2012-12-31 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Dennis,

Yes indeed.

Charles.


Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org a écrit :

[Resent using the list-known correct e-mail address]

Is it CMIS that is being asked about?  

There is more information here: 
https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=cmis.

 - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Immanuel Giulea [mailto:giulea.imman...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 13:21
To: Cor Nouws
Cc: Boudi van Vlijmen; Marketing; market...@us.libreoffice.org;
discuss@documentfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [tdf-discuss] Marketing
material suggestion: Why LibreOffice?

From the 4.0 Release Notes, I understand that LO is aiming to
compatible
with CIMS protocol.
I'll try to take a deeper look at this.
Don't know enough about the CIMS protocol right now.


On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote:

 Hi Immanuel,

 Thanks for your initiative and input for this!

 Immanuel Giulea wrote (29-12-12 22:04)


  What are the plans on CIMS for LO 4.0 ?



https://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/**ReleaseNotes/4.0#Corehttps://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.0#Core

 I've some documentation from some years back. Will try next weeks
 (overloaded, sorry) to see what is up to date and then send it here.

 Cheers,



 --
  - Cor
  - http://nl.libreoffice.org
  - www.librelex.org



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[board-discuss] Merry Christmas

2012-12-24 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello,

It's this time of the year again I'm not as good a Florian when it 
comes to these words, but let me just wish everyone of you, as well as 
your families,
a merry Christmas. May all the best come to you, and may you stay or be 
healthy in 2013 and beyond. It's a great joy and honour to be and 
contribute to this project
and to this community. Just for that, I feel blessed and hope to show 
myself worthy of this for a long time.

Best wishes,

Charles-H. Schulz.

[tdf-discuss] Merry Christmas

2012-12-24 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello,

It's this time of the year again I'm not as good a Florian when it 
comes to these words, but let me just wish everyone of you, as well as 
your families,
a merry Christmas. May all the best come to you, and may you stay or be 
healthy in 2013 and beyond. It's a great joy and honour to be and 
contribute to this project
and to this community. Just for that, I feel blessed and hope to show 
myself worthy of this for a long time.

Best wishes,

Charles-H. Schulz.

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Re: [board-discuss] Request: approve 523,60 € lawyer fees for drafting a work contract

2012-12-15 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Le samedi 15 décembre 2012 à 10:11 +, Michael Meeks a écrit :
 On Sat, 2012-12-15 at 01:57 +0100, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
  we had hired counsel to come up with a suitable work contract to hire
  Florian. This has concluded, and the aforementioned fees are due,
  please approve the not-yet-budgeted amount.
 
   +1 Thanks !
 
   Michael.
 

+1 from my side.

Best,
-- 
Charles-H. Schulz
Co-Founder  Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint

[board-discuss] BoD minutes of the 28th of November 2012

2012-12-02 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello, 

Please find the board minutes of the 28th of November meeting below.

Minutes 28.11.2012
The Document Foundation
 Board of Directors Meeting
 Call Minutes

Date: Wednesday, Nov, the 28th 2012
Location: Phone conference room

Session chair: Florian Effenberger (Chairman of the Board)
keeper of the minutes: Charles-H. Schulz (Board of Directors)
In the call:  Thorsten Behrens Florian Effenberger Caolan McNamara
Bjoern Michaelsen  Michael Meeks Andreas Mantke Charles-H. Schulz
Representation: for Italo Vignoli: Bjoern Michaelsen

Chairman of the Board is in the call. One of the Chairman or Deputy is
required to be present or represented for having a quorate call.

The Board of Directors at time of the call consists of 7 seat holders
without deputies. In order to be quorate, the call needs to have 1/2 of
the Board of Directors members, which gives 4. A total of 6 Board of
Directors members are attending the call, one of them being represented
by a deputy.

The board waives all formal statutory requirements, or requirements in
the foundations articles, or other requirements regarding form and
invitation, time limits, and for the topics discussed in this meeting.

The call is quorate.

From now on, a quorum can be reached with a simple majority of 4 votes.

The meeting commences at 16:05 UTC.

1. conference next year; let's wait for the deadline to announce/make a
choice.
2. money investment: Waiting for input from the Hypovereinsbank for one
more week, otherwise let's keep that at the Volksbank
3. Email policy: Mike Schinagl agreed to work on this on a paid basis.
4. Travel reimbursal for the GSoC mentor summit: 2000 USD of
reimbursal for the participants to this summit, preferably from SPI.
Accepted unanimously.
5. Infrastructure budget proposal: given the migration of our
infrastructure there will be some surplus in terms of cost.
Proposal:(what we have now): 900 Euros per month + one time fee (400
Euros) ; then (new)650 Euros per month in the new infrastructure; the
two systems and cost structure would run concurrently until the end of
the first quarter 2013. Approved unanimously. This budget shall enter
into effect on the 1st of December 2012.
6. CEBIT: discussion postponed to the next call.

End of agenda, no additions.
Attending at the end of the meeting: Thorsten Behrens Florian
Effenberger Caolan McNamara Bjoern Michaelsen  Michael Meeks Andreas
Mantke Charles-H. Schulz

The meeting adjournes at 16:35 UTC.

Meeting minutes approved:

Charles-H.Schulz, Keeper of the minutes
 Florian Effenberger, Session chair




-- 
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Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
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Re: [board-discuss] Budget request: EUR 3500 for LibOCon 2012 video / streaming service

2012-10-26 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

+1

Charles.
Le 26 oct. 2012 18:25, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org
a écrit :

 +1, it's definitely worth the money

 Thorsten Behrens wrote on 2012-10-26 15:17:

 I'd like to get aforementioned budget approved for paying the
 wonderful folks from Beuth college for their efforts during the
 LibreOffice conference (filming and streaming), and their ongoing
 work on post-processing the video footage.


 --
 Florian Effenberger, Chairman of the Board (Vorstandsvorsitzender)
 Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
 The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
 Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
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Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice and ProjectLibre

2012-10-15 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Kabrina,

We have no plans to include ProjectLibre at that time. Also, be aware
that there are other Free Software project management, for instance
LibrePlan (www.libreplan.com)

Best,
Charles.

Le lundi 15 octobre 2012 à 14:02 +0200, Krabina Bernhard a écrit :
 hello,
 
 by coincidence I came across ProjectLibre [1], the successor of the Openproj 
 Project management software.
 
 And I read that they are in discussion with LibreOffice on working together 
 [2].
 
 I am only an occasional user of LibreOffice (unfortunaltely) and am very 
 rarely using project management software (fortunately ;-), but I think it's a 
 great idea to
 - provide some integration of libreoffice and projectlibre (e.g. 
 import/export to calc...)
 - maybe in LibreOffice 4.x include a new libre office project management 
 module ;-)
 
 regards,
 Bernhard
 
 [1] http://www.projectlibre.org
 [2] 
 http://www.projectlibre.org/discussion/marketing-tips-projectlibre#comment-167
 
 
 




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Re: [board-discuss] Fwd: Conference Moderator

2012-10-14 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

+1 

Fine by me.

Charles.

Le dimanche 14 octobre 2012 à 14:58 +0200, Simon Phipps a écrit :
 Dear Board,
 
 This proposal has been discussed on the Conference list and is
 unopposed. Please will you consider selecting a person to act as
 LibreOffice Conference Moderator as described below?
 
 Best regards,
 
 Simon
 
 -- Forwarded message --
 
 From: Simon Phipps si...@webmink.com
 Date: Oct 12, 2012 12:48 PM
 Subject: Conference Moderator
 To: confere...@global.libreoffice.org
 
 tl;dr summary:  I propose the LibreOffice Conference appoint someone
 to oversee inclusiveness and offer confidence harassment will
 be addressed in the unlikely event it happens.
 
 
 Detail
 Attending conferences in the USA over the last year, I have frequently
 heard requests for conferences to have a policy statement to protect
 attendees from harrassment of various kinds by other attendees. My
 observation is these policies are hard to draft in a way that is
 inclusive to the needs of all attendees and non-alienating; indeed, I
 have observed some attempts at such policies themselves unwittingly
 alienating groups within the conference. I believe it's important for
 the LibreOffice conference that we create a welcoming and safe
 environment for all kinds of attendees, so rather than attempting a
 detailed policy statement I'd like to propose something different. 
 
 
 I suggest designating a Conference Moderator, who can provide a safe
 haven for those of us with concerns about some aspect of the
 conference and a trusted advocate to take whatever steps are possible
 to address problems if they arise. I thus propose the following:
  1. Add a statement such as the following to the conference web
 site: The LibreOffice community is welcoming, diverse and
 international. This strength can sometimes bring with it
 different approaches to interaction that are unfamiliar and
 even occasionally unwelcome. We all have different comfort
 zone boundaries and many of us find it good to have a friend
 stand along side us when these boundaries are crossed for
 whatever reason.  If there's any aspect of the event that
 makes you feel uncomfortable, and you don't feel you can
 discuss it directly with those responsible or that just
 walking away is an acceptable solution, the Conference
 Moderator will discuss it with you in an accepting manner and
 act on your behalf to bring about a resolution if appropriate.
 For this year's conference, the Document Foundation Board has
 asked name to act as Moderator. Please contact name
  either in-person or via e-mail address or phone number.
 name is authorised by the Board to take whatever steps are
 necessary to address any inappropriate actions during the
 conference.
  2. Ask the Document Foundation Board to seek and appoint a
 Moderator.
  3. Mention this arrangement in administrative remarks during the
 conference.
 I believe this approach balances the need for community oversight with
 the recognition of our mutual differences. All the same, I doubt I've
 got it right first time and I'd welcome improvements to this proposal.
 
 
 Best regards,
 
 
 Simon

Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: LibreOffice Cloud???

2012-10-13 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Of course, but it takes time and money :-)

Rgds,
Charles.
Le 13 oct. 2012 02:53, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com a écrit :

 Thanks! Do you know if this is still being worked on by the devs?

 Cheers,

 Marc

 Le 2012-10-12 03:19, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit :

 Sure:
 http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/Using_**LibreOffice_in_a_Web_Browserhttp://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Using_LibreOffice_in_a_Web_Browser

 Best,
 Charles.

 Le jeudi 11 octobre 2012 à 19:22 -0400, Marc Paré a écrit :

 Hi Charles,

 I just found your interview article mentioning it being pre alpha, are
 there any docs where I could mount and test it even if in alpha stage?

 Cheers,

 Marc

 Le 2012-10-11 16:36, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit :

 On the wiki, but it's pre alpha material.

 Best,
 Charles.
 Le 11 oct. 2012 20:53, Marc Parém...@marcpare.com   a écrit :

  I need the use of a LibreOffice Cloud ... I know that Drew had at one
 point set up a server as proof of concept, but, do we now have details
 on
 how to set one up? Is this even possible?

 Cheers,

 Marc


 --
 Marc Paré
 m...@marcpare.com
 http://www.parEntreprise.com
 parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
 parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: LibreOffice Cloud???

2012-10-12 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Sure:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Using_LibreOffice_in_a_Web_Browser

Best,
Charles.

Le jeudi 11 octobre 2012 à 19:22 -0400, Marc Paré a écrit :
 Hi Charles,
 
 I just found your interview article mentioning it being pre alpha, are 
 there any docs where I could mount and test it even if in alpha stage?
 
 Cheers,
 
 Marc
 
 Le 2012-10-11 16:36, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit :
  On the wiki, but it's pre alpha material.
 
  Best,
  Charles.
  Le 11 oct. 2012 20:53, Marc Parém...@marcpare.com  a écrit :
 
  I need the use of a LibreOffice Cloud ... I know that Drew had at one
  point set up a server as proof of concept, but, do we now have details on
  how to set one up? Is this even possible?
 
  Cheers,
 
  Marc
 
 
  --
  Marc Paré
  m...@marcpare.com
  http://www.parEntreprise.com
  parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
  parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org
 
 
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Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice Cloud???

2012-10-11 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

On the wiki, but it's pre alpha material.

Best,
Charles.
Le 11 oct. 2012 20:53, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com a écrit :

 I need the use of a LibreOffice Cloud ... I know that Drew had at one
 point set up a server as proof of concept, but, do we now have details on
 how to set one up? Is this even possible?

 Cheers,

 Marc


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Forums Proposal

2012-10-08 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Christian,

I don't think my tone was inappropriate, but if it really was I am sorry
and it was not my intention. I still disagree with the approach of mixing
both contributors and users forums development this way, but you should not
infer that I am against contributors forums..to me it is a very valid
option for some type of contributions and teams, while not being an option
for others. My point is on the approach, not on the content of the proposal.

Best,

Charles.
Le 8 oct. 2012 03:27, Christian Lohmaier 
lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com a écrit :

 Hi Charles, *,

 On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Charles-H. Schulz
 charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
 
  But the discussion was started about users forums. Anything besides that
  would require the interested teams to have been consulted before.

 This thread (or these threads, as they have gone to various lists, the
 interesting teams) /is/ the consulting *before*.

 As Marc correctly pointed out: This is part of the job he and the
 other coordinators did volunteer for. Get the initial forum structure
 sorted out, ask the affected people for their input.

 Your reply (or should I say the tone of your reply) was not
 appropriate in this scenario.

  What I
  fear at this stage is both confusion from new contributors (for instance
  someone submitting a patch to a forum might never get picked up because
  devs would not bother reading the forum) and exhaustion from the
  moderators.

 Björn and others made it pretty clear from the very start that core
 development will continue to use the mailinglists, and I don't
 remember anyone questioning that, so the notification was just that. -
 A notification.

 No list will be forced to move to the forum.

 If people complain, then they complain and state: No, thanks.

 If you read the mails, you notice that this is one of the options that
 were offered.

 That now you tell the Board wants a forum exclusively meant for
 user-support I reply WTF did nobody else from the board point that
 out earlier.
 Björn after all is Deputy on the Board, and his input early in the
 process was the basis for all this, as it was quite a reasonable thing
 to do.

 So while I don't question your intentions, I question your style in this
 regard.

 Yes, suggesting to move a list to the forum is controversial, Björn
 did already anticipate that. But that by itself doesn't make it a
 stupid idea that needs to be stopped at all cost.

 Just say: No thanks, I prefer to keep whatever to use the
 mailinglists and move on to the next topic.

 ciao
 Christian


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: LibreOffice Forums Categories Proposal

2012-10-07 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Marc,

I agree with Sophie. On the rest I strongly suggest we focus on an users
forum, not on a function based forum (marketing, qa, etc) as we have enough
trouble building a team for marketing...

Best,

Charles.
Le 7 oct. 2012 11:09, Sophie Gautier gautier.sop...@gmail.com a écrit :

 Hi Marc,
 On 06/10/2012 22:30, Marc Paré wrote:
 [...]

  Discuss should be joined into 'projects' (the third forum with
  announcements in
  the description). If you 'discuss matters affecting the LibreOffice
  project' it
  should better be relevant to the projects too.
 
  I have no problems with this either. Although, I can see others having
  problems with it. I was never too clear on what the projects mailing
  list was all about as it seems we are all advertising on it and
  discussions are happening more and more on it. It may be better to have
  a Discuss forum with a sub-forum Projects where only decided
  projects are announced. The discuss list is very active and it is hard
  to pull projects from any of the threads.

 The projects mailing was about the transverse communication between the
 different project and the native language communities. Unfortunately
 nobody understood this purpose (may be not well communicated) and when
 there is a need of information, translation, whatever exchange or
 interaction, the l10n mailing list is/was used. There is a technical
 difference between translation and localization, but there is a big lack
 of communication between the different projects and the native language
 communities, where marketing, QA, documentation, etc are done. It should
 not be a discussion area but a working area.

 Kind regards
 Sophie
 --
 Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org
 Tel:+33683901545
 Membership  Certification Committee Member - Co-founder
 The Document Foundation

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[tdf-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Forums Proposal

2012-10-07 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Marc,

Far from me is the idea of not letting this work out or even experiment.
But the discussion was started about users forums. Anything besides that
would require the interested teams to have been consulted before. What I
fear at this stage is both confusion from new contributors (for instance
someone submitting a patch to a forum might never get picked up because
devs would not bother reading the forum) and exhaustion from the
moderators. Again what was discussed is forums for users. Let's see how
this plays out and open a discussion for a contributors forums later on.

Best,
Charles.
Le 7 oct. 2012 16:07, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com a écrit :

Hi Florian and Charles,

Le 2012-10-07 09:19, Jonathan Aquilina a écrit :

I second not biting off more than we can chew
On Oct 7, 2012 2:08 PM, Charles-H. Schulz
charles.schulz@**documentfoundation.orgcharles.sch...@documentfoundation.org
wrote:

At the risk of repeating myself, and to support Florian's views: we are
talking about a forum for users, not a migration, even a partial one, to
forums instead of mailing lists fro contributors. That was never
discussed
and so far I think we are only at the stage of opening something... Let's
not try to eat something bigger than we can chew...

(thank you for taking care of all this!)

Charles.

Sadly, the proposal was put to the discussion list on September 27th and
also posts went to all of the mentioned mailing lists on the same day ...
ahem ... 10 days ago!

IHO, we are not biting more than we can chew, but offering an opportunity
for some mailing lists the medium of a forums, which, has been voiced in
some mailing lists. There is nothing wrong with having a healthy discussion
on this topic. Quite frankly if a mailing list decides to move to a forums,
they would surely have people to devote to their own moderation and this
would only be done by consensus. Resources would have very little impact on
the user forums section. If anything, it would allow for a visual bridge
for interested users to move to the contributor lists.

So, if you are worried about eating bigger than we can chew, the offer
to open up forums was given, 5 co-coordinators offered their help, met and
organized a proposal, made the process transparent to the lists. If we had
thought that our proposal could not have been met our needs or was
unmanageable, then we would have not offered it. We had quite long and
lively discussions when we were forming our proposal and argued as many
ways that we could before offering it to the lists.

So, if there were limitations on what we were to offer from the BoD, there
were no indications of this. The reminder that we were given were to make
sure that everyone have their say in this, which is what is now happening.

I would say, now that the proposal has gone out, let them work themselves
through and everyone who would have wanted a say in this will have said it.
Whether a mailing list wishes to join, they would have to make ways to make
the forums work with their moderators. This would be their decision.

Cheers,

Marc

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Re: [board-discuss] budget for QA meeting in Essen

2012-10-01 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

+1 sorry, very busy today...

Best,
Charles.
Le 1 oct. 2012 12:58, Olivier Hallot 
olivier.hal...@documentfoundation.org a écrit :

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 +1

 Em 01-10-2012 04:44, Florian Effenberger escreveu:
  Hello,
 
  unfortunately, I didn't have a chance to put this up for discussion
  earlier. For the QA meeting that took place in Essen last weekend, I'd
  like to request a total budget of 1.000 €, payable from SPI funds,
  mostly used for travel requests. We probably need less, but to be on the
  safe side, I propose that amount as maximum.
 
  Would the board be willing to grant that?
 
  Thanks,
  Florian
 

 - --
 Olivier Hallot
 Founder, Board of Directors Member - The Document Foundation
 The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
 Fundação responsável civilmente, de acordo com o direito civil
 Detalhes Legais: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
 LibreOffice translation leader for Brazilian Portuguese
 +55-21-8822-8812
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/

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 =6zPn
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Topic of board-discuss list (was: [tdf-discuss] Re: Rules of Procedure approved for TDF board of directors)

2012-10-01 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

I guess what Thorsten means is that in the case of the board discuss list
Nabble might be misconfigured. Jean Weber and David Nelson posted on it
less than a month ago, so at least it works with the standard mailing list
usage. Besides the BoD always intended to make this list a list where
members can raise gouvernance related question so it cannot be intended to
be read only for non board members.

Best,
Charles.
Le 1 oct. 2012 20:17, Pedro pedl...@gmail.com a écrit :

Thorsten Behrens wrote
No idea - if you subscribe via

board-discuss+subscribe@

, you can post w/o
moderation, like on every other TDF mailing list. Nabble
misconfiguration?

It is not a misconfiguration. It is a different configuration.

I think you are misinterpreting the words Public discussion list for the
Document Foundation board of directors. It is exactly what it means: a
discussion list FOR the TDF BoD members ONLY with open contents (anyone can
read for the sake of transparency), but not open participation.

The Discuss list is for open participation.

Cheers,
Pedro

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Re: [board-discuss] Request for pre-approval of remimbursement of travel expenses for LiboCon

2012-09-19 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Le mercredi 19 septembre 2012 à 14:43 +0200, Italo Vignoli a écrit :
 On 9/19/12 11:13 AM, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
  Jean Weber wrote:
  I request pre-approval of reminbursement of AUD 2000 (approx. EUR
  1600 at today's exchange rate) towards my travel and
  accommodation expenses to attend the LibreOffice Conference in
  Berlin, at which I will be a speaker.
  
  +1
 
 +1
 

+1

Charles.

Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: TDF Statutes -- check over the EN version

2012-09-17 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Anthony,

I disagree. The German text will be the sole one with legal validity, in NZ
or elsewhere. And it will be the only text to be evaluated. There is no
easy way out of that in case of litigation but that's an established legal
practice. If this was a NZ based entity the same would apply: the text
would have to be read in NZ legal english.

Best,
Charles.
Le 17 sept. 2012 00:39, Anthony Easthope antiso...@myopera.com a écrit :

A warning -- When translating a legal document make sure that it does
not lose it's original meaning. A classic example of this is New
Zealands treaty of waitangi (essentially the founding document of New
Zealands Bi-Cultural Constitution)
as we can see here it was here that due to a Lost in translation issue
that lead to alot of the issues that NZ has faced efor settlement claims
- (Read Article here:

http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/politics/treaty/read-the-Treaty/differences-between-the-texts
).

It is true that the Deutch version will supersede the English
Translation in the court of law. How ever that would only be the case in
the German Jurisdiction - not for example in the British or American
Jurisdiction, Best solution here would be to draft an international code
or charter that can be freely interpreted by any court wherever and
whenever -- Easiest thing to do would be to translated the DE version of
course! :D
On Sun, 16ng Sep 2012, at 10:17 PM, Thorsten Behrens wrote
Florian Effenberger wrote:
the documents in their current form have been translated by a lawyer
together with a native speaker. So, from my POV, we should
definitely be very careful in changing words, and involving someone
understanding the German legal system can't harm (I can't volunteer,
I desperately lack time).

I can at least offer to proof-read the occasional intermediate
version. I was heavily involved in drafting both German English
versions.

Cheers,

--
Thorsten Behrens, Director, Deputy Chairman of the Board
The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint

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Re: [board-discuss] Application: Travel costs for attending the DE-Python-Conference

2012-09-13 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Le jeudi 13 septembre 2012 à 13:07 +0200, Italo Vignoli a écrit :
 Il 13/09/2012 11:35, Michael Meeks ha scritto:
  
  On Wed, 2012-09-12 at 18:25 +0200, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
  Andreas Mantke wrote:
  I'll ask for a budget of about 550 Euro for this purpose.
 
  I support your request.
  
  +1.
 
 +1, Italo
 

+1

Charles.

Re: [board-discuss] Official Blog LibreOffice Brazil

2012-09-13 Thread Charles-H. Schulz


+1

Charles.

Le jeudi 13 septembre 2012 à 08:46 -0300, Olivier Hallot a écrit :
 +1 as well
 
 Thanks
 
 Em 11-09-2012 15:21, Eliane Domingos de Sousa escreveu:
  Dear all,
  
  I would like to submit my request for your appreciation.
  
  I would like to have for the Brazilian LibreOffice Community and
  users/fans of LIBO an official blog in the structure of TDF using the
  sub-domain pt-br.libreoffice.org. I had some informations about this
  possibility and it's possible, however there are costs involved per year
  in a total of 73 USD.
  
  Today we're using an unofficial blog, translating the posts of TDF blog
  for Portuguese, but I'm not confortable to use this structure. Actually,
  I think it's not right to work out of structure of TDF.
  
  Do you see any problem about this?
  
  Thanks in advance!
  
  Best,
  
  Eliane Domingos de Sousa
  Brazilian LibreOffice Community

[board-discuss] call now?

2012-09-05 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello all,

... aren't we supposed to have a call now?

/me surprised

Charles.

[board-discuss] Vacations

2012-08-18 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello everyone,

I will be on vacations from today till the 2nd of September, with very
little, if no connectivity.
I would like to nominate Jesus Corrius, or Bjoern Michaelsen, or Andreas
Mandke for our next BoD call and any event that would usually require my
presence.

Best,

Charles.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Libre Office Zotero Integration [Proposition of a New Partner?]

2012-08-16 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Anthony,

Le jeudi 16 août 2012 à 12:29 +0200, Anthony Easthope a écrit :
Its not essential to have the zotero server as part of it although that
is a nice feature.
It is now up-to Florian perhaps to voice his opinion?

hmm... why? :-)

it would be good
to see this idea taken to the next level as it to me seems to be a win
win situation, Suppose we could always vote on it.

So what could be done is you proposing this to the BoD on board-discuss,
and come up with a detailed proposal about this.

Quickly what sort of
approach would need to be taken by TDF if they where to approach the
Zotero project? beyond me anyway I just want to be able to take the
credit that I was the one who suggested the partnership - I would much
rather not get tied up with all the bureaucratic nonsense that goes on
with negotiating deals like that, besides it is beyond me I feel I am
unworthy of even implementing this idea. another perhaps barrier is the
fact that I have no knowledge in negotiating even the meanest of deals
(except for Art - that's where I kind of excel)

Well, taking credit works on some level if you implement the idea and
contribute time, efforts, artwork, code, documentation, etc. ,
otherwise, ideas are very cheap. :-)

Best,
Charles.

Regards
Anthony
:)

On Wed, 15 Aug 2012, at 09:05 PM, NoOp wrote:
On 08/14/2012 05:23 AM, Fabian Rodriguez wrote:
On 08/14/2012 05:09 AM, Anthony Easthope wrote:
..
* Libreoffice is perfect for use within university's / schools as it
can be easily distributed thanks to the GNU license the same goes
for Zotero
You are referring to the client component. The server is not free, open
source.

Really??

These might be of interest:
http://www.zotero.org/support/dev/source_code

https://github.com/zotero/dataserver
From the source code: license.txt:
quote
Zotero Data Server
Copyright © 2010 Center for History and New Media
George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia, USA
http://zotero.org

The Center for History and New Media distributes the Zotero Data Server
source code
under the GNU Affero General Public License, version 3 (AGPLv3).

The Zotero name is a registered trademark of George Mason University.
See http://zotero.org/trademark for more information.

Third-party copyright in this distribution is noted where applicable.

All rights not expressly granted are reserved.
/quote

http://www.zotero.org/support/dev/source_code

You can setup a server to store Zotero files, but it's not a
trivial process and it lacks any and all ZOtero social features/web
front-end. It's even advised against (for corruption risks) by Zotero.

Agree regarding setup:
http://www.zotero.org/support/dev/dataserver_setup

Also might be of interest:
https://chronicle.com/blogs/profhacker/make-your-own-zotero-webdav-server-and-access-your-zotero-attachments-anywhere/38526
http://blog.holz.ca/2011/11/phpzoterowebdav-installation/
http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/20339/
[phpZoteroWebDAV 2.0 - php based WebDAV server and libra]
...

BTW: Congrats on the new baby boy!

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Libre Office Zotero Integration [Proposition of a New Partner?]

2012-08-16 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Fabian,


Le jeudi 16 août 2012 à 07:43 -0400, Fabian Rodriguez a écrit :
 On 08/16/2012 06:29 AM, Anthony Easthope wrote:
  Its not essential to have the zotero server as part of it although that
  is a nice feature. [...]
 
 IMO such features are essential, and an important part of why you'd use
 Zotero. I wish their server component evolves into a federated,
 open-data, FLOSS solution, though. That's something where the TDF can
 have influence on the Zotero project. Of course this isn't to say this
 should block such discussion, but keeping in line with LibreOffice
 context (FLOSS), such goals are possible to influence and reach.
 
 Such features/server dependency are the default, so it's always on for
 users doing research - they are always part of a group, and share
 references among them. In that sense it's essential. Users won't notice
 how this ties them to Zotero's infrastructure until their reference
 database grows, which confronts them to buying storage. The current
 Zotero implementation is pre-configured to use their server which
 includes document storage and social features implemented in a web
 front-end. The document-storage part can be configured to use other
 servers, not so for the other features.
 
 Let's not minimize this. Here are a few reasons why the server+social
 component side should be free, open source:
 - Anyone could setup their own (important in large deployments/ gov't /
 schools / etc where bandwidth usage and owning your data matters)
 - Zotero's own servers wouldn't need to scale up to such deployments or
 even work fully w/o Internet access
 - Zotero's pricing for storage may not fit every deployment's audience
 - Implementing local storage/sync on a server is not trivial for
 end-users. Not using sync at all is not a clear alternative.
 - Zotero's clients may at some time stop offering third-party storage
 options altogether
 - Zotero's servers are a single point of failure which won't help
 adoption when they fail
 - Zotero could add local installation / support to their offering, or
 even certify service providers. Competition among such providers would
 indirectly help LibO adoption.
 
 If anyone is going to Zotero with a proposal for collaboration with
 TDF/LibO, I wish they ask/mention the above.
 
 If I can be of any assistance in such discussions, I'll gladly make time.

See my reply to Anthony, but basically, what needs to happen is an
additional server development on the Zotero side as well as a upgrade to
the LibreOffice extension (am I forgetting something?) So you need
someone developing it. As for any sort of partnership/formal stuff, that
would need to be evaluated by marketing and by the BoD. 

My -candid- feeling about this is that there's potential, now it's up to
volunteers to pick up the development workload and perhaps ping Zotero
about this. If there's no interest, then we should not spend our nights
on this.

Best,
Charles.

 
 Cheers,
 
 Fabian Rodriguez
 http://libreoffice.magicfab.ca
 
 
 -- 
 
 
 




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Re: [tdf-discuss] Libre Office Zotero Integration [Proposition of a New Partner?]

2012-08-14 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello Anthony,

Le mardi 14 août 2012 à 11:42 +0200, Florian Reisinger a écrit :
 Hi Anthony!
 
 
 __
 Florian Reisinger
 
 Von meinem iPad gesendet
 Sent via iPad
 
 Am 14.08.2012 um 11:11 schrieb Anthony Easthope antiso...@myopera.com:
 
  Hi Guys
 
 
 
  I have a proposition for you all and am not sure if you would class it
  as a feature request or a partnership suggestion.
 
  My idea is as follows: The Document Foundation partners up with Roy
  Rosenzwieg Center for History and New Media and work together on making
  The Zotero project an integral part of the LibreOffice frame work.
 
 
 
  I have the feeling that I might be treading on thin ground here but I
  will outline my reasons as to why this could work below
 
 
 
   * Libreoffice is perfect for use within university's / schools as it
  can be easily distributed thanks to the GNU license the same goes
  for Zotero
   * The use of Zotero could replace the inbuilt Bibliography 
  referencing tool as the current one is quite bewildering to use for
  many people
   * Zotero has a nice GUI and can work in with Firefox via an extension
  which is also open source so at the same time we are not just
  supporting one open-source initiative but three!
   * Zotero is open to suggestions and it appears to other projects as
  well
   * Increased awareness of The Document Foundation program via Zotero
  related media attention (Vice Versa for LO and Zotero)
   * it would bring a fresh feel to the whole project and could even
  mean a new approach and reinvigorate the project
 
 
 
  Let me Know what you think and feel free to shoot me down if you so
  wish!
 
 
 With this very idea wie could Hit 2 birds with One stone! IMHO Great!


I know Zotero as a brand and I know it has loyal followers, but  could
you enlighten us  about what such a collaboration would entail?

Thanks,

Charles.



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Re: [tdf-discuss] Libre Office Zotero Integration [Proposition of a New Partner?]

2012-08-14 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hi,

Le mardi 14 août 2012 à 08:23 -0400, Fabian Rodriguez a écrit :
 On 08/14/2012 05:09 AM, Anthony Easthope wrote:
  Hi Guys
 
 
 
  I have a proposition for you all and am not sure if you would class it
  as a feature request or a partnership suggestion.
 
  My idea is as follows: The Document Foundation partners up with Roy
  Rosenzwieg Center for History and New Media and work together on making
  The Zotero project an integral part of the LibreOffice frame work.
 For that to happen an important part of Zotero (the server,
 specificalloy the part that provides social features) would have to be
 removed from its functionality or made free, open source software.
 
 Otherwise this would be a closed-source deal, business-only deal,
 against LibreOffice core values, IMHO.
 
 I mentioned Zotero before without much enthusiasm here, that's another
 important element for this to succeed: core LIbreOffice users/devs using
 Zotero aren't many (or any, that I know of).
 
  I have the feeling that I might be treading on thin ground here but I
  will outline my reasons as to why this could work below
 
 
* Libreoffice is perfect for use within university's / schools as it
   can be easily distributed thanks to the GNU license the same goes
   for Zotero
 You are referring to the client component. The server is not free, open
 source. You can setup a server to store Zotero files, but it's not a
 trivial process and it lacks any and all ZOtero social features/web
 front-end. It's even advised against (for corruption risks) by Zotero.
 
 
* The use of Zotero could replace the inbuilt Bibliography 
   referencing tool as the current one is quite bewildering to use for
   many people
 Agreed! I believe I've suggested to remove it completely from LibO in
 the past, such is its current state.
 
* Zotero has a nice GUI and can work in with Firefox via an extension
   which is also open source so at the same time we are not just
   supporting one open-source initiative but three!
 Firefox distribution is also bound to commercial restrictions,
 specifically regarding its trademark and binaries origin. I wouldn't use
 this argument, unfortunately it comes with strings attached.
 
* Zotero is open to suggestions and it appears to other projects as
   well
 
 Looking at how setting up a third-party server is handled/ not
 encouraged, I feel the opposite. I'd love to be wrong, I haven't
 asked/pursued this so it would be a good idea to see this happen.
 
* Increased awareness of The Document Foundation program via Zotero
   related media attention (Vice Versa for LO and Zotero)
* it would bring a fresh feel to the whole project and could even
   mean a new approach and reinvigorate the project
 The above may be best discussed/addressed quickly on the marketing
 mailing list (this will surely catch Marc Paré's attention, an
 extraordinary contributor there).
 
 
  Let me Know what you think and feel free to shoot me down if you so
  wish!
 
 
 
 I am personally interested in this, so I can be of any help,
 specifically validating the free/non-free components and impact of
 keeping a close eye on such details, I'll gladly make myself available.
 
 Right now I am welcoming the 4th child in my family, a healthy boy born
 2 days ago so I may not be as resposive but personal email always gets
 my attention :)
 

Well, there is a Zotero extension somewhere (used to work with the
OpenOffice.org 3.x branch). Aside that, I'm not sure what is required:
joint promotion efforts?

best,
Charles.




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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Referencing systems and bibliographies in LO

2012-07-15 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Ljelly,


I still don't know if the dev mailing list would be the right place,
because a discussion is just that, a discussion, and it seems you have a
whole set of ideas and requirements. Did I get it right? What I would
suggest is this; if you have requirements, you can write specs on the wiki
or generally outline what would be needed. Then point to the wiki page you
have edited to the dev mailing list, and see if you could have developers
getting interested in this.

Hope this helps,

Charles.

2012/7/15 lj ljelou...@gmail.com

 In response to Charles:

 I am proposing a future set of ideas for discussion about libreoffice and
 it's referencing system as I believe it is not very good at the moment
 compared to other software open source proprietary in the way that
 companies create referencing systems.

 ljelly.

 On Friday, 13 July 2012, Fabian Rodriguez wrote:

 
  On 07/12/2012 08:03 PM, lj wrote:
   If this is is in the wrong place please notify immediately of where I
 can
   post this in the right spot! [...]
  
   I have a few questions to ask about bibliographic referencing in
   Libreoffice: (some of these questions and statements are obvious and
 easy
   to answer others may not be relevant.
   Please reply with reasons and answers for disscussion about the
  referencing
   system [...]:
  This statement summarizes it best IMO:
   [The] bibliography referencing in Libreoffice, is
   vastly minimal but then is complex to use the referencing system and to
   follow the direct steps!
  In my dealings with a few customers I've helped with LibreOffice, they
  have moved to Zotero, a free, open source system to easily gather, share
  and use bibliography references. I am not expert with Zotero, but have
  explored it to determine how it works and what is needed. One important
  problem is you can't reproduce the current sharing/social/public web
  part of the service at zotero.org, but everything else is free, open
  source software.
 
   3. compatability does not work between Microsoft Office and Libreoffice
   with the usage of both referencing systems from either word or
  libreoffice,
   features are excluded or do not work. (I can ellaborate on these if
  needed
   to be posted)
  What I've observed is that once users decide to go for LibreOffice, they
  will want to convert to other free,open source software (like Zotero).
  Using both operating systems/applications on either interchangeably
  becomes impractical very quickly. Keep in mind it's rather difficult to
  influence important changes/bug fixes in non-free, non-open source
  software, so it's  a waste of time going that route (in my opinion!). I
  am very biaised about this, though, I encourage you to ask more
  questions and make your own opinion.
 
 
   4. Recent versions of Microsoft Office since 2007 have tried to create
   uncomplex versions of referencing and bibliographic citations. These
   systems work, but are still limited.
  OneNote seems very popular. Keep in mind Microsoft is a business and
  will do everything it can to make it easy/pleasant/profitable to stay
  with Microsoft Office. Such a system won't exist in LibreOffice in the
  short or even long term specially when specialized 3rd party
  alternatives like Zotero exist and speciall when core functionality in
  LibreOffice is not feature-complete/bug-free yet. Someone / some
  organization would need to be very motivated and have good resources to
  attempt this.
 
   5. LO should create a new referencing system.
  See above.
 
  
   Questions about referencing in LO: Not in any order.
   [..]
 
  I lack the time to answer more, hopefully someone else can jump in and
  help here.
 
  Cheers,
 
  Fabian Rodriguez
  http://libreoffice.magicfab.ca
 
 
 
 
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Re: [board-discuss] Declaration of Internet Freedom

2012-07-03 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

+1

Best,
Charles.

2012/7/3 Olivier Hallot olivier.hal...@documentfoundation.org

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Yes. Absolutely. +1

 Em 02-07-2012 22:34, Simon Phipps escreveu:
  Please will the Board consider adding TDF as a signatory to the
  Declaration of Internet Freedom:
  http://www.internetdeclaration.org/freedom
 
  Thanks,
 
  S.
 

 - --
 Olivier Hallot
 Founder, Board of Directors Member - The Document Foundation
 The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
 Fundação responsável civilmente, de acordo com o direito civil
 Detalhes Legais: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
 LibreOffice translation leader for Brazilian Portuguese
 +55-21-8822-8812


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Re: Travel policy forms (was: Re: [board-discuss] BoD minutes from 2012-05-16)

2012-06-19 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Thanks Thorsten!

Best,

Charles.
Le 19 juin 2012 02:09, Thorsten Behrens t...@documentfoundation.org a
écrit :

 Florian Effenberger wrote:
  5. Travel policy
 
  Request: Approve TDF travel policy as mailed to the board discuss
  list on May 16th, 2012
 
  Result of vote: 6 approvals, 0 neutral, 0 disapprovals
 
  Decision: The TDF travel policy has been approved.
 
 Hi *,

 I've now setup some wiki pages with information regarding travel
 reimbursals and related materials - referenced from

  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Policies

 Cheers,

 --
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 The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
 Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
 Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint

Re: [board-discuss] next BoD call on Wednesday

2012-05-29 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Hello,

I'd like to nominate Jesus Corrius as my deputy, and if he's not
available, Andreas Mantke or Björn Michaelsen.

Best,


-- 
Charles-H. Schulz 
Co-founder  Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
Mobile Number: +33 (0)6 98 65 54 24.


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Re: [board-discuss] funding for admin weekend

2012-05-21 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Le Mon, 21 May 2012 16:59:18 +0200,
Thorsten Behrens t...@documentfoundation.org a écrit :

 Florian Effenberger wrote:
  The total cost for having all the 13 admins in Essen, including
  sleeping in the hotel, breakfast and having a lecture room + WiFi,
  would be around 840 € for whole weekend.
  
  What do people generally think about that? Does this sound senseful
  and would the board be willing to approve let's say 1.000 € in
  total, excluding travel fees?
  
 Yes, absolutely. Beyond that, should we fix some travel budget as
 well?
 
 Cheers,
 

Agreed from my side...

Best,
-- 
Charles-H. Schulz 
Co-founder  Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
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