subject:"Re\: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python\?"

RE: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

2018-04-11 Thread Matthew Pava

Right.  I just use python manage.py…
I just checked python3 manage.py and it doesn’t work.

From: collinmander...@gmail.com [mailto:collinmander...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of 
Collin Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 7:46 AM
To: django-developers@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

but python3 manage.py  doesn't work on windows, right?

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Josh Smeaton 
mailto:josh.smea...@gmail.com>> wrote:
As a datapoint, I've seen roughly 1 person per week in #django IRC confused 
about specific startup exceptions due to them using python 2 rather than python 
3 on Django >= 2.0. Unsure how many of these are due to the shebang. That said, 
it looks like there are no good solutions other than maybe ensuring our docs 
always show the form python3 manage.py  rather than ./manage.py 
.

On Wednesday, 11 April 2018 12:02:31 UTC+10, Bobby Mozumder wrote:
In any case you’re going to see a lot of Django 2.0 developers on Mac OS hit 
this problem when they install to default Python or use standard Python install 
convention where Python 3.5 is installed as “python3".

-bobby

On Apr 10, 2018, at 3:46 PM, Aymeric Augustin 
mailto:aymeric@polytechnique.org>> wrote:

On 10 Apr 2018, at 17:43, Florian Apolloner 
mailto:f.apo...@gmail.com>> wrote:

On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 1:28:33 PM UTC+2, Tim Allen wrote:
Since `django-admin startproject my_project` is created on the fly from 
templates, couldn't we dynamically create the `manage.py` executable based on 
some system introspection and an agreed upon priority

Wouldn't that result in something along the lines of "works on my system" and 
breaks elsewhere? after all manage.py is committed into git more often than not.

... which directs us to the correct solution: setting PYTHONPATH and 
DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE correctly and using django-admin instead of manage.py.

pip / setuptools rewrites the shebang line appropriately when it installs the 
django-admin script. (I'm not sure how this happens exactly.)

My point is — there's no perfect solution. At best we can aim for a less 
imperfect solution than the status quo.

--
Aymeric.

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Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

2018-04-11 Thread Collin Anderson

but python3 manage.py  doesn't work on windows, right?

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Josh Smeaton 
wrote:

> As a datapoint, I've seen roughly 1 person per week in #django IRC
> confused about specific startup exceptions due to them using python 2
> rather than python 3 on Django >= 2.0. Unsure how many of these are due to
> the shebang. That said, it looks like there are no good solutions other
> than maybe ensuring our docs always show the form *python3 manage.py
> * rather than *./manage.py *.
>
> On Wednesday, 11 April 2018 12:02:31 UTC+10, Bobby Mozumder wrote:
>>
>> In any case you’re going to see a lot of Django 2.0 developers on Mac OS
>> hit this problem when they install to default Python or use standard Python
>> install convention where Python 3.5 is installed as “python3".
>>
>> -bobby
>>
>> On Apr 10, 2018, at 3:46 PM, Aymeric Augustin <
>> aymeric@polytechnique.org> wrote:
>>
>> On 10 Apr 2018, at 17:43, Florian Apolloner  wrote:
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 1:28:33 PM UTC+2, Tim Allen wrote:
>>>
>>> Since `django-admin startproject my_project` is created on the fly from
>>> templates, couldn't we dynamically create the `manage.py` executable based
>>> on some system introspection and an agreed upon priority
>>>
>>
>> Wouldn't that result in something along the lines of "works on my system"
>> and breaks elsewhere? after all manage.py is committed into git more often
>> than not.
>>
>>
>> ... which directs us to the correct solution: setting PYTHONPATH and
>> DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE correctly and using django-admin instead of
>> manage.py.
>>
>> pip / setuptools rewrites the shebang line appropriately when it installs
>> the django-admin script. (I'm not sure how this happens exactly.)
>>
>> My point is — there's no perfect solution. At best we can aim for a less
>> imperfect solution than the status quo.
>>
>> --
>> Aymeric.
>>
>>
>> --
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>> gid/django-developers/C36A8494-1094-4A03-A402-618BB999F927%
>> 40polytechnique.org
>> 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>>
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Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

2018-04-10 Thread Josh Smeaton

As a datapoint, I've seen roughly 1 person per week in #django IRC confused 
about specific startup exceptions due to them using python 2 rather than 
python 3 on Django >= 2.0. Unsure how many of these are due to the shebang. 
That said, it looks like there are no good solutions other than maybe 
ensuring our docs always show the form *python3 manage.py * rather 
than *./manage.py *.

On Wednesday, 11 April 2018 12:02:31 UTC+10, Bobby Mozumder wrote:
>
> In any case you’re going to see a lot of Django 2.0 developers on Mac OS 
> hit this problem when they install to default Python or use standard Python 
> install convention where Python 3.5 is installed as “python3".
>
> -bobby
>
> On Apr 10, 2018, at 3:46 PM, Aymeric Augustin <
> aymeric@polytechnique.org > wrote:
>
> On 10 Apr 2018, at 17:43, Florian Apolloner  > wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 1:28:33 PM UTC+2, Tim Allen wrote:
>>
>> Since `django-admin startproject my_project` is created on the fly from 
>> templates, couldn't we dynamically create the `manage.py` executable based 
>> on some system introspection and an agreed upon priority
>>
>
> Wouldn't that result in something along the lines of "works on my system" 
> and breaks elsewhere? after all manage.py is committed into git more often 
> than not.
>
>
> ... which directs us to the correct solution: setting PYTHONPATH and 
> DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE correctly and using django-admin instead of 
> manage.py. 
>
> pip / setuptools rewrites the shebang line appropriately when it installs 
> the django-admin script. (I'm not sure how this happens exactly.)
>
> My point is — there's no perfect solution. At best we can aim for a less 
> imperfect solution than the status quo.
>
> -- 
> Aymeric.
>
>
> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
>

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Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

2018-04-10 Thread Bobby Mozumder

In any case you’re going to see a lot of Django 2.0 developers on Mac OS hit 
this problem when they install to default Python or use standard Python install 
convention where Python 3.5 is installed as “python3".

-bobby

> On Apr 10, 2018, at 3:46 PM, Aymeric Augustin 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 10 Apr 2018, at 17:43, Florian Apolloner > > wrote:
>> 
>> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 1:28:33 PM UTC+2, Tim Allen wrote:
>> Since `django-admin startproject my_project` is created on the fly from 
>> templates, couldn't we dynamically create the `manage.py` executable based 
>> on some system introspection and an agreed upon priority
>> 
>> Wouldn't that result in something along the lines of "works on my system" 
>> and breaks elsewhere? after all manage.py is committed into git more often 
>> than not.
> 
> ... which directs us to the correct solution: setting PYTHONPATH and 
> DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE correctly and using django-admin instead of manage.py. 
> 
> pip / setuptools rewrites the shebang line appropriately when it installs the 
> django-admin script. (I'm not sure how this happens exactly.)
> 
> My point is — there's no perfect solution. At best we can aim for a less 
> imperfect solution than the status quo.
> 
> -- 
> Aymeric.
> 
> 
> -- 
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>  
> .
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Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

2018-04-10 Thread Aymeric Augustin

> On 10 Apr 2018, at 17:43, Florian Apolloner  wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 1:28:33 PM UTC+2, Tim Allen wrote:
> Since `django-admin startproject my_project` is created on the fly from 
> templates, couldn't we dynamically create the `manage.py` executable based on 
> some system introspection and an agreed upon priority
> 
> Wouldn't that result in something along the lines of "works on my system" and 
> breaks elsewhere? after all manage.py is committed into git more often than 
> not.

... which directs us to the correct solution: setting PYTHONPATH and 
DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE correctly and using django-admin instead of manage.py. 

pip / setuptools rewrites the shebang line appropriately when it installs the 
django-admin script. (I'm not sure how this happens exactly.)

My point is — there's no perfect solution. At best we can aim for a less 
imperfect solution than the status quo.

-- 
Aymeric.

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Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

2018-04-10 Thread Florian Apolloner



On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 1:28:33 PM UTC+2, Tim Allen wrote:
>
> Since `django-admin startproject my_project` is created on the fly from 
> templates, couldn't we dynamically create the `manage.py` executable based 
> on some system introspection and an agreed upon priority
>

Wouldn't that result in something along the lines of "works on my system" 
and breaks elsewhere? after all manage.py is committed into git more often 
than not.

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Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

2018-04-10 Thread Tim Allen

Since `django-admin startproject my_project` is created on the fly from 
templates, couldn't we dynamically create the `manage.py` executable based 
on some system introspection and an agreed upon priority?

Regards,

Tim

On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 4:28:12 AM UTC-4, Adam Johnson wrote:
>
> Oh yeah, duh, my bad :)
>
> On 9 April 2018 at 23:35, Collin Anderson  > wrote:
>
>> I'm thinking something like #!/usr/bin/env 
>> {{ os.path.basename(sys.executable) }} when running startproject. (Though 
>> on windows I that would be #!/usr/bin/env python.exe - not sure if that 
>> would work or not)
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 3:58 PM, Adam Johnson 
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> (Or would it work to use os.path.basename(sys.executable) ?)
>>>
>>>
>>> The shebang is interpreted by the OS so this is before python even 
>>> starts :)
>>>
>>

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Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

2018-04-10 Thread Adam Johnson

Oh yeah, duh, my bad :)

On 9 April 2018 at 23:35, Collin Anderson  wrote:

> I'm thinking something like #!/usr/bin/env {{ os.path.basename(sys.executable)
> }} when running startproject. (Though on windows I that would
> be #!/usr/bin/env python.exe - not sure if that would work or not)
>
> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 3:58 PM, Adam Johnson  wrote:
>
>> (Or would it work to use os.path.basename(sys.executable) ?)
>>
>>
>> The shebang is interpreted by the OS so this is before python even starts
>> :)
>>
>> On 9 April 2018 at 20:53, Collin Anderson  wrote:
>>
>>> I personally just edit my manage.py to change it from python to python3.
>>> Maybe we could just document that?
>>>
>>> (Or would it work to use os.path.basename(sys.executable) ?)
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 11:02 AM, Tom Forbes  wrote:
>>>
 It may be an obstacle but I believe it’s better than having them nuke
 their base systems by accident by installing a package that conflicts with
 their base system. This isn’t such a huge issue on MacOS but on Linux it is
 and I’ve seen it happen a few times. Not to mention the issue of multiple
 conflicting dependencies across projects - all in all it’s really not a
 recommended and we should not look to make it easier IMO.

 People have different setups and whatever works, works, but things like
 pipenv are maturing rapidly and solve the convenience issue you
 describe. I personally use virtualenvwrapper which is really simple to
 set up and displays the current virtual environment in the prompt, and
 makes it really easy to switch between them/create new ones.

 Tom



 On 8 April 2018 at 15:00:46, Bobby Mozumder (bmozum...@gmail.com)
 wrote:

 I never really liked the idea of using VirtualEnv or HomeBrew over the
 default installation in Mac OS.  (FreeBSD has the same naming issues).

 Having beginners use VirtualEnv or HomeBrew always struck me as a huge
 obstacle to getting a beginners Django developer's environment operational,
 as well as being a huge pain-in-the-ass of always setting VirtualEnvs for
 each shell.  So, I personally don’t use them anymore, and just use the base
 system now.

 I wish there was a process of running Django out-of-the-box from a
 default Mac OS install.

 -bobby

 On Apr 8, 2018, at 8:27 AM, Tom Forbes  wrote:

 This only seems to be an issue when you are using the base system
 interpreter to run manage.py. installing Django and other dependencies
 there is not recommended for a variety of reasons, and this isn't a problem
 when using a virtualenv, it doesn't seem like there is much to fix IMO.


 On Sun, 8 Apr 2018, 08:19 Bobby Mozumder,  wrote:

> Is it OK to reopen that ticket?
>
> The problem is that python2 and python3 need to coexist in most
> systems, and you can’t just rename python3 to python.
>
> -bobby
>
> On Apr 6, 2018, at 8:30 PM, Tim Graham  wrote:
>
> It was tried in https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/27878 but it
> caused problems, particularly on Windows.
>
> On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 6:35:50 PM UTC-4, Josh Smeaton wrote:
>>
>> I think you're right and PEP394 is the relevant text:
>> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/
>>
>> TL;DR
>>
>> For now, *python* should refer to python2 and *python3* should be
>> used to refer to python 3.
>>
>> On Saturday, 7 April 2018 07:07:35 UTC+10, Bobby Mozumder wrote:
>>>
>>> The header of manage.py has: #!/usr/bin/env python
>>>
>>> Shoudn’t it be: #!/usr/bin/env python3
>>>
>>> Since 2.0 is now only Python3. Both my Mac OS & FreeBSD environments
>>> have Python 3.5+ as “python3". (I’m not sure about Linux or other
>>> environments).
>>>
>>> Is that a bug I need to file?
>>>
>>> -bobby
>>>
>>
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Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

2018-04-09 Thread Collin Anderson

I'm thinking something like #!/usr/bin/env
{{ os.path.basename(sys.executable) }} when running startproject. (Though
on windows I that would be #!/usr/bin/env python.exe - not sure if that
would work or not)

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 3:58 PM, Adam Johnson  wrote:

> (Or would it work to use os.path.basename(sys.executable) ?)
>
>
> The shebang is interpreted by the OS so this is before python even starts
> :)
>
> On 9 April 2018 at 20:53, Collin Anderson  wrote:
>
>> I personally just edit my manage.py to change it from python to python3.
>> Maybe we could just document that?
>>
>> (Or would it work to use os.path.basename(sys.executable) ?)
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 11:02 AM, Tom Forbes  wrote:
>>
>>> It may be an obstacle but I believe it’s better than having them nuke
>>> their base systems by accident by installing a package that conflicts with
>>> their base system. This isn’t such a huge issue on MacOS but on Linux it is
>>> and I’ve seen it happen a few times. Not to mention the issue of multiple
>>> conflicting dependencies across projects - all in all it’s really not a
>>> recommended and we should not look to make it easier IMO.
>>>
>>> People have different setups and whatever works, works, but things like
>>> pipenv are maturing rapidly and solve the convenience issue you
>>> describe. I personally use virtualenvwrapper which is really simple to
>>> set up and displays the current virtual environment in the prompt, and
>>> makes it really easy to switch between them/create new ones.
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8 April 2018 at 15:00:46, Bobby Mozumder (bmozum...@gmail.com) wrote:
>>>
>>> I never really liked the idea of using VirtualEnv or HomeBrew over the
>>> default installation in Mac OS.  (FreeBSD has the same naming issues).
>>>
>>> Having beginners use VirtualEnv or HomeBrew always struck me as a huge
>>> obstacle to getting a beginners Django developer's environment operational,
>>> as well as being a huge pain-in-the-ass of always setting VirtualEnvs for
>>> each shell.  So, I personally don’t use them anymore, and just use the base
>>> system now.
>>>
>>> I wish there was a process of running Django out-of-the-box from a
>>> default Mac OS install.
>>>
>>> -bobby
>>>
>>> On Apr 8, 2018, at 8:27 AM, Tom Forbes  wrote:
>>>
>>> This only seems to be an issue when you are using the base system
>>> interpreter to run manage.py. installing Django and other dependencies
>>> there is not recommended for a variety of reasons, and this isn't a problem
>>> when using a virtualenv, it doesn't seem like there is much to fix IMO.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018, 08:19 Bobby Mozumder,  wrote:
>>>
 Is it OK to reopen that ticket?

 The problem is that python2 and python3 need to coexist in most
 systems, and you can’t just rename python3 to python.

 -bobby

 On Apr 6, 2018, at 8:30 PM, Tim Graham  wrote:

 It was tried in https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/27878 but it
 caused problems, particularly on Windows.

 On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 6:35:50 PM UTC-4, Josh Smeaton wrote:
>
> I think you're right and PEP394 is the relevant text:
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/
>
> TL;DR
>
> For now, *python* should refer to python2 and *python3* should be
> used to refer to python 3.
>
> On Saturday, 7 April 2018 07:07:35 UTC+10, Bobby Mozumder wrote:
>>
>> The header of manage.py has: #!/usr/bin/env python
>>
>> Shoudn’t it be: #!/usr/bin/env python3
>>
>> Since 2.0 is now only Python3. Both my Mac OS & FreeBSD environments
>> have Python 3.5+ as “python3". (I’m not sure about Linux or other
>> environments).
>>
>> Is that a bug I need to file?
>>
>> -bobby
>>
>
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Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

2018-04-09 Thread Adam Johnson

>
> (Or would it work to use os.path.basename(sys.executable) ?)


The shebang is interpreted by the OS so this is before python even starts :)

On 9 April 2018 at 20:53, Collin Anderson  wrote:

> I personally just edit my manage.py to change it from python to python3.
> Maybe we could just document that?
>
> (Or would it work to use os.path.basename(sys.executable) ?)
>
> On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 11:02 AM, Tom Forbes  wrote:
>
>> It may be an obstacle but I believe it’s better than having them nuke
>> their base systems by accident by installing a package that conflicts with
>> their base system. This isn’t such a huge issue on MacOS but on Linux it is
>> and I’ve seen it happen a few times. Not to mention the issue of multiple
>> conflicting dependencies across projects - all in all it’s really not a
>> recommended and we should not look to make it easier IMO.
>>
>> People have different setups and whatever works, works, but things like
>> pipenv are maturing rapidly and solve the convenience issue you
>> describe. I personally use virtualenvwrapper which is really simple to
>> set up and displays the current virtual environment in the prompt, and
>> makes it really easy to switch between them/create new ones.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8 April 2018 at 15:00:46, Bobby Mozumder (bmozum...@gmail.com) wrote:
>>
>> I never really liked the idea of using VirtualEnv or HomeBrew over the
>> default installation in Mac OS.  (FreeBSD has the same naming issues).
>>
>> Having beginners use VirtualEnv or HomeBrew always struck me as a huge
>> obstacle to getting a beginners Django developer's environment operational,
>> as well as being a huge pain-in-the-ass of always setting VirtualEnvs for
>> each shell.  So, I personally don’t use them anymore, and just use the base
>> system now.
>>
>> I wish there was a process of running Django out-of-the-box from a
>> default Mac OS install.
>>
>> -bobby
>>
>> On Apr 8, 2018, at 8:27 AM, Tom Forbes  wrote:
>>
>> This only seems to be an issue when you are using the base system
>> interpreter to run manage.py. installing Django and other dependencies
>> there is not recommended for a variety of reasons, and this isn't a problem
>> when using a virtualenv, it doesn't seem like there is much to fix IMO.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018, 08:19 Bobby Mozumder,  wrote:
>>
>>> Is it OK to reopen that ticket?
>>>
>>> The problem is that python2 and python3 need to coexist in most systems,
>>> and you can’t just rename python3 to python.
>>>
>>> -bobby
>>>
>>> On Apr 6, 2018, at 8:30 PM, Tim Graham  wrote:
>>>
>>> It was tried in https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/27878 but it
>>> caused problems, particularly on Windows.
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 6:35:50 PM UTC-4, Josh Smeaton wrote:

 I think you're right and PEP394 is the relevant text:
 https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/

 TL;DR

 For now, *python* should refer to python2 and *python3* should be used
 to refer to python 3.

 On Saturday, 7 April 2018 07:07:35 UTC+10, Bobby Mozumder wrote:
>
> The header of manage.py has: #!/usr/bin/env python
>
> Shoudn’t it be: #!/usr/bin/env python3
>
> Since 2.0 is now only Python3. Both my Mac OS & FreeBSD environments
> have Python 3.5+ as “python3". (I’m not sure about Linux or other
> environments).
>
> Is that a bug I need to file?
>
> -bobby
>

>>> --
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>>> Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
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>>> an email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.co
>>> m/d/msgid/django-developers/7cdf48bb-ab0b-449d-8f33-a4c6d777
>>> 7369%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> gid/django-developers/E1881F92-2D8C-45D8-8315-E5D72D0D7B6E%40gmail.com
>>>

Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

2018-04-09 Thread Collin Anderson

I personally just edit my manage.py to change it from python to python3.
Maybe we could just document that?

(Or would it work to use os.path.basename(sys.executable) ?)

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 11:02 AM, Tom Forbes  wrote:

> It may be an obstacle but I believe it’s better than having them nuke
> their base systems by accident by installing a package that conflicts with
> their base system. This isn’t such a huge issue on MacOS but on Linux it is
> and I’ve seen it happen a few times. Not to mention the issue of multiple
> conflicting dependencies across projects - all in all it’s really not a
> recommended and we should not look to make it easier IMO.
>
> People have different setups and whatever works, works, but things like
> pipenv are maturing rapidly and solve the convenience issue you describe.
> I personally use virtualenvwrapper which is really simple to set up and
> displays the current virtual environment in the prompt, and makes it really
> easy to switch between them/create new ones.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> On 8 April 2018 at 15:00:46, Bobby Mozumder (bmozum...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
> I never really liked the idea of using VirtualEnv or HomeBrew over the
> default installation in Mac OS.  (FreeBSD has the same naming issues).
>
> Having beginners use VirtualEnv or HomeBrew always struck me as a huge
> obstacle to getting a beginners Django developer's environment operational,
> as well as being a huge pain-in-the-ass of always setting VirtualEnvs for
> each shell.  So, I personally don’t use them anymore, and just use the base
> system now.
>
> I wish there was a process of running Django out-of-the-box from a default
> Mac OS install.
>
> -bobby
>
> On Apr 8, 2018, at 8:27 AM, Tom Forbes  wrote:
>
> This only seems to be an issue when you are using the base system
> interpreter to run manage.py. installing Django and other dependencies
> there is not recommended for a variety of reasons, and this isn't a problem
> when using a virtualenv, it doesn't seem like there is much to fix IMO.
>
>
> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018, 08:19 Bobby Mozumder,  wrote:
>
>> Is it OK to reopen that ticket?
>>
>> The problem is that python2 and python3 need to coexist in most systems,
>> and you can’t just rename python3 to python.
>>
>> -bobby
>>
>> On Apr 6, 2018, at 8:30 PM, Tim Graham  wrote:
>>
>> It was tried in https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/27878 but it
>> caused problems, particularly on Windows.
>>
>> On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 6:35:50 PM UTC-4, Josh Smeaton wrote:
>>>
>>> I think you're right and PEP394 is the relevant text:
>>> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/
>>>
>>> TL;DR
>>>
>>> For now, *python* should refer to python2 and *python3* should be used
>>> to refer to python 3.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 7 April 2018 07:07:35 UTC+10, Bobby Mozumder wrote:

 The header of manage.py has: #!/usr/bin/env python

 Shoudn’t it be: #!/usr/bin/env python3

 Since 2.0 is now only Python3. Both my Mac OS & FreeBSD environments
 have Python 3.5+ as “python3". (I’m not sure about Linux or other
 environments).

 Is that a bug I need to file?

 -bobby

>>>
>> --
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>> "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.
>> com/d/msgid/django-developers/7cdf48bb-ab0b-449d-8f33-
>> a4c6d369%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/
>> msgid/django-developers/E1881F92-2D8C-45D8-8315-E5D72D0D7B6E%40gmail.com
>> 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
> --
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Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

2018-04-08 Thread Tom Forbes

It may be an obstacle but I believe it’s better than having them nuke their
base systems by accident by installing a package that conflicts with their
base system. This isn’t such a huge issue on MacOS but on Linux it is and
I’ve seen it happen a few times. Not to mention the issue of multiple
conflicting dependencies across projects - all in all it’s really not a
recommended and we should not look to make it easier IMO.

People have different setups and whatever works, works, but things like
pipenv are maturing rapidly and solve the convenience issue you describe. I
personally use virtualenvwrapper which is really simple to set up and
displays the current virtual environment in the prompt, and makes it really
easy to switch between them/create new ones.

Tom

On 8 April 2018 at 15:00:46, Bobby Mozumder (bmozum...@gmail.com) wrote:

I never really liked the idea of using VirtualEnv or HomeBrew over the
default installation in Mac OS.  (FreeBSD has the same naming issues).

Having beginners use VirtualEnv or HomeBrew always struck me as a huge
obstacle to getting a beginners Django developer's environment operational,
as well as being a huge pain-in-the-ass of always setting VirtualEnvs for
each shell.  So, I personally don’t use them anymore, and just use the base
system now.

I wish there was a process of running Django out-of-the-box from a default
Mac OS install.

-bobby

On Apr 8, 2018, at 8:27 AM, Tom Forbes  wrote:

This only seems to be an issue when you are using the base system
interpreter to run manage.py. installing Django and other dependencies
there is not recommended for a variety of reasons, and this isn't a problem
when using a virtualenv, it doesn't seem like there is much to fix IMO.

On Sun, 8 Apr 2018, 08:19 Bobby Mozumder,  wrote:

> Is it OK to reopen that ticket?
>
> The problem is that python2 and python3 need to coexist in most systems,
> and you can’t just rename python3 to python.
>
> -bobby
>
> On Apr 6, 2018, at 8:30 PM, Tim Graham  wrote:
>
> It was tried in https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/27878 but it caused
> problems, particularly on Windows.
>
> On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 6:35:50 PM UTC-4, Josh Smeaton wrote:
>>
>> I think you're right and PEP394 is the relevant text:
>> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/
>>
>> TL;DR
>>
>> For now, *python* should refer to python2 and *python3* should be used
>> to refer to python 3.
>>
>> On Saturday, 7 April 2018 07:07:35 UTC+10, Bobby Mozumder wrote:
>>>
>>> The header of manage.py has: #!/usr/bin/env python
>>>
>>> Shoudn’t it be: #!/usr/bin/env python3
>>>
>>> Since 2.0 is now only Python3. Both my Mac OS & FreeBSD environments
>>> have Python 3.5+ as “python3". (I’m not sure about Linux or other
>>> environments).
>>>
>>> Is that a bug I need to file?
>>>
>>> -bobby
>>>
>>
> --
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> "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/7cdf48bb-ab0b-449d-8f33-a4c6d369%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
>
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> 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

2018-04-08 Thread Bobby Mozumder

I never really liked the idea of using VirtualEnv or HomeBrew over the default 
installation in Mac OS.  (FreeBSD has the same naming issues).  

Having beginners use VirtualEnv or HomeBrew always struck me as a huge obstacle 
to getting a beginners Django developer's environment operational, as well as 
being a huge pain-in-the-ass of always setting VirtualEnvs for each shell.  So, 
I personally don’t use them anymore, and just use the base system now.

I wish there was a process of running Django out-of-the-box from a default Mac 
OS install.

-bobby

> On Apr 8, 2018, at 8:27 AM, Tom Forbes  wrote:
> 
> This only seems to be an issue when you are using the base system interpreter 
> to run manage.py. installing Django and other dependencies there is not 
> recommended for a variety of reasons, and this isn't a problem when using a 
> virtualenv, it doesn't seem like there is much to fix IMO.
> 
> 
> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018, 08:19 Bobby Mozumder,  > wrote:
> Is it OK to reopen that ticket?
> 
> The problem is that python2 and python3 need to coexist in most systems, and 
> you can’t just rename python3 to python.
> 
> -bobby
> 
>> On Apr 6, 2018, at 8:30 PM, Tim Graham > > wrote:
>> 
>> It was tried in https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/27878 
>>  but it caused problems, 
>> particularly on Windows.
>> 
>> On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 6:35:50 PM UTC-4, Josh Smeaton wrote:
>> I think you're right and PEP394 is the relevant text: 
>> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/ 
>> 
>> 
>> TL;DR
>> 
>> For now, python should refer to python2 and python3 should be used to refer 
>> to python 3.
>> 
>> On Saturday, 7 April 2018 07:07:35 UTC+10, Bobby Mozumder wrote:
>> The header of manage.py has: #!/usr/bin/env python
>> 
>> Shoudn’t it be: #!/usr/bin/env python3
>> 
>> Since 2.0 is now only Python3. Both my Mac OS & FreeBSD environments have 
>> Python 3.5+ as “python3". (I’m not sure about Linux or other environments).
>> 
>> Is that a bug I need to file?
>> 
>> -bobby
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers 
>> .
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/7cdf48bb-ab0b-449d-8f33-a4c6d369%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
>> .
> 
> 
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>  
>

Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

2018-04-08 Thread Tom Forbes

This only seems to be an issue when you are using the base system
interpreter to run manage.py. installing Django and other dependencies
there is not recommended for a variety of reasons, and this isn't a problem
when using a virtualenv, it doesn't seem like there is much to fix IMO.


On Sun, 8 Apr 2018, 08:19 Bobby Mozumder,  wrote:

> Is it OK to reopen that ticket?
>
> The problem is that python2 and python3 need to coexist in most systems,
> and you can’t just rename python3 to python.
>
> -bobby
>
> On Apr 6, 2018, at 8:30 PM, Tim Graham  wrote:
>
> It was tried in https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/27878 but it caused
> problems, particularly on Windows.
>
> On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 6:35:50 PM UTC-4, Josh Smeaton wrote:
>>
>> I think you're right and PEP394 is the relevant text:
>> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/
>>
>> TL;DR
>>
>> For now, *python* should refer to python2 and *python3* should be used
>> to refer to python 3.
>>
>> On Saturday, 7 April 2018 07:07:35 UTC+10, Bobby Mozumder wrote:
>>>
>>> The header of manage.py has: #!/usr/bin/env python
>>>
>>> Shoudn’t it be: #!/usr/bin/env python3
>>>
>>> Since 2.0 is now only Python3. Both my Mac OS & FreeBSD environments
>>> have Python 3.5+ as “python3". (I’m not sure about Linux or other
>>> environments).
>>>
>>> Is that a bug I need to file?
>>>
>>> -bobby
>>>
>>
> --
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/7cdf48bb-ab0b-449d-8f33-a4c6d369%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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>
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Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

2018-04-08 Thread Bobby Mozumder

Is it OK to reopen that ticket?

The problem is that python2 and python3 need to coexist in most systems, and 
you can’t just rename python3 to python.

-bobby

> On Apr 6, 2018, at 8:30 PM, Tim Graham  wrote:
> 
> It was tried in https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/27878 
>  but it caused problems, 
> particularly on Windows.
> 
> On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 6:35:50 PM UTC-4, Josh Smeaton wrote:
> I think you're right and PEP394 is the relevant text: 
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/ 
> 
> 
> TL;DR
> 
> For now, python should refer to python2 and python3 should be used to refer 
> to python 3.
> 
> On Saturday, 7 April 2018 07:07:35 UTC+10, Bobby Mozumder wrote:
> The header of manage.py has: #!/usr/bin/env python
> 
> Shoudn’t it be: #!/usr/bin/env python3
> 
> Since 2.0 is now only Python3. Both my Mac OS & FreeBSD environments have 
> Python 3.5+ as “python3". (I’m not sure about Linux or other environments).
> 
> Is that a bug I need to file?
> 
> -bobby
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

2018-04-06 Thread Tim Graham

It was tried in https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/27878 but it caused 
problems, particularly on Windows.

On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 6:35:50 PM UTC-4, Josh Smeaton wrote:
>
> I think you're right and PEP394 is the relevant text: 
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/
>
> TL;DR
>
> For now, *python* should refer to python2 and *python3* should be used to 
> refer to python 3.
>
> On Saturday, 7 April 2018 07:07:35 UTC+10, Bobby Mozumder wrote:
>>
>> The header of manage.py has: #!/usr/bin/env python
>>
>> Shoudn’t it be: #!/usr/bin/env python3
>>
>> Since 2.0 is now only Python3. Both my Mac OS & FreeBSD environments have 
>> Python 3.5+ as “python3". (I’m not sure about Linux or other environments).
>>
>> Is that a bug I need to file?
>>
>> -bobby
>>
>

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Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

2018-04-06 Thread Josh Smeaton

I think you're right and PEP394 is the relevant 
text: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/

TL;DR

For now, *python* should refer to python2 and *python3* should be used to 
refer to python 3.

On Saturday, 7 April 2018 07:07:35 UTC+10, Bobby Mozumder wrote:
>
> The header of manage.py has: #!/usr/bin/env python
>
> Shoudn’t it be: #!/usr/bin/env python3
>
> Since 2.0 is now only Python3. Both my Mac OS & FreeBSD environments have 
> Python 3.5+ as “python3". (I’m not sure about Linux or other environments).
>
> Is that a bug I need to file?
>
> -bobby
>

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RE: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

Re: Shouldn't manage.py call python3 instead of python?

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