On Tue, 2015-05-05 at 13:15 +0100, David Hare wrote:
On 05/05/15 12:48, Noel Torres wrote:
Didier Kryn k...@in2p3.fr escribió:
Please remember that our objective is not to forbid nor impede usage of
systemd. A Devuan user might quite well **CHOOSE** to use systemd (well,
not for the
On 05/05/15 12:48, Noel Torres wrote:
Didier Kryn k...@in2p3.fr escribió:
[...]
I bet every service daemon package would now provide a .service
file, just like everyone used to provide an init script. As far as I
understand, the .service files are the systemd counterpart of sysvinit
Didier Kryn k...@in2p3.fr escribió:
[...]
I bet every service daemon package would now provide a .service
file, just like everyone used to provide an init script. As far as I
understand, the .service files are the systemd counterpart of
sysvinit scripts. I imagine it is just enough to
On 05/05/15 13:29, David Hare wrote:
On 05/05/15 11:57, Anto wrote:
I pinned *systemd* packages into Pin-Priority: -1, and re-compiled cron
package without anything related to systemd. But there is still
/lib/systemd/system/cron.service file as we can see below.
Which package actually
On 05/05/15 13:48, Noel Torres wrote:
Didier Kryn k...@in2p3.fr escribió:
[...]
I bet every service daemon package would now provide a .service
file, just like everyone used to provide an init script. As far as I
understand, the .service files are the systemd counterpart of
sysvinit
On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 09:17:28PM +0100, David Harrison wrote:
On 05/05/2015 20:43, dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org wrote:
Well, the problem here is that systemd is*not* hot-pluggable, at all,
as we have recently learned the hard way.
Here's a thought. Thrown to the list with no requisite
Yes, we need another MacroShaft screwing us over a barrel... NOT.
Sent from my Windows Phone
From: Laurent Bercotmailto:ska-de...@skarnet.org
Sent: 5/5/2015 3:21 PM
To: dng@lists.dyne.orgmailto:dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: Re: [Dng] [dng] vdev status updates
On
On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 08:44:22PM +0200, Anto wrote:
On 05/05/15 18:52, Noel Torres wrote:
As a resume: If you want a systemd-free system, Devuan is your
distribution, and will always be. But if you want a system designed to be
unable to run systemd, please leave us. This is not the place
On 05/05/2015 05:36 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Or, migrating to BSD.
I installed it over the weekend just 'cause. I'd be using it now, too,
if it had write support for ext4. (I kinda want my 3TB home partition
to be usable.)
And I find it very hilarious that BSD has gnome 3.14 that seems
Hi Jaret,
It would probably help to have some ground rules on how Devuan handles
packages which provide systemd support. I know Devuan says Nope! when it
comes to anything that would introduce systemd/init system dependencies,
but does it ever get more elaborate than that? If it is already
On 05/05/2015 12:35 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote:
On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 11:49:34AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
Hi Noel,
Having any systemd-equipped Devuan packages means that I need to always
be on my guard to prevent systemd from sneaking in.
Could segregate the packages by putting them in another
The decision in Debian to default the init system to systemd
is the main reason to fork Debian in the first place.
Not exactly.. The reason is Debian's decision to *require* systemd with
the only alternative a crippled OS. What is default matters less..
D
On 05/05/15 16:00, Noel Torres wrote:
Anto arya...@chello.at escribió:
[...]
Hello Noel,
I think I have a good reason to want to have them removed. I hate
them :)
You are free to do so.
I don't think Devuan should provide the option to use systemd. Why
should it? The decision in
On Tue, 05 May 2015 14:00:31 +
Noel Torres env...@rolamasao.org wrote:
Anto arya...@chello.at escribió:
[...]
Hello Noel,
I think I have a good reason to want to have them removed. I hate
them :)
You are free to do so.
I don't think Devuan should provide the option to use
Anto arya...@chello.at escribió:
[...]
Hello Noel,
I think I have a good reason to want to have them removed. I hate them :)
You are free to do so.
I don't think Devuan should provide the option to use systemd. Why
should it? The decision in Debian to default the init system to
systemd
On 2015-05-05 11:34, Anto wrote:
On 05/05/15 16:00, Noel Torres wrote:
Anto arya...@chello.at escribió:
[...]
Hello Noel,
I think I have a good reason to want to have them removed. I hate
them :)
You are free to do so.
I don't think Devuan should provide the option to use systemd. Why
Unlurking here for a moment...
Am 05.05.2015 um 16:05 schrieb David Hare davidah...@gmail.com:
The decision in Debian to default the init system to systemd
is the main reason to fork Debian in the first place.
Not exactly.. The reason is Debian's decision to *require* systemd with the
On 2015-05-05, Anto arya...@chello.at wrote:
Which package actually generates all of the files and directories under
/lib/systemd and /etc/systemd if not the packages themselves, like cron
on the example above?
dpkg -S /lib/systemd /etc/systemd
On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 02:31:45PM +0200, Anto wrote:
I don't think Devuan should provide the option to use systemd. Why
should it? The decision in Debian to default the init system to
systemd is the main reason to fork Debian in the first place. And
the users who want systemd are better of
On 2015-05-05 11:34, Anto wrote:
On 05/05/15 16:00, Noel Torres wrote:
Anto arya...@chello.at escribió:
[...]
Hello Noel,
I think I have a good reason to want to have them removed. I hate
them :)
You are free to do so.
I don't think Devuan should provide the option to use systemd. Why
Please Guys, my answer to Anto was purely technical but it
triggered a philosophical discussion which happened already several
times. Could we stop the thread please? Maybe this discussion may happen
later, when we are all happy with our working devuan system.
Didier
Le 05/05/2015
On Tue, 05 May 2015 14:31:45 +0200
Anto arya...@chello.at wrote:
On 05/05/15 13:48, Noel Torres wrote:
Didier Kryn k...@in2p3.fr escribió:
[...]
I bet every service daemon package would now provide
a .service file, just like everyone used to provide an init
script. As far
On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 11:53:30AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
Before we get too deeply into this whole thing, what was the original
question? What exact thing are we arguing whether or not to include in
Devuan?
Whether or not we need to rebuild packages that have .service files so
they will not
On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 05:34:19PM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:
[cut]
I meant we should live with the fact that systemd is not unpluggable
:)
Nicely put. But do you draw any implication from that vis-a-vis
supporting systemd in Devuan? (I certainly do :-)
If it was up to me (and it is
Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com escribió:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 16:50:13 +0200
Anto arya...@chello.at wrote:
In my view, the decision to use systemd as the default init of Debian
forces the locked-in of massive number of packages into systemd. That
is the main problem which leads to the
On Tue, 5 May 2015 16:40:55 +0200
Martin Waschbüsch mar...@waschbuesch.de wrote:
At any rate, Devuan's distinguishing factor, as Noel has correctly
pointed out, is that freedom of choice is promoted. So that people
can continue to mix and match components as they see fit. Therefore,
(at
On 05/05/15 16:53, Tilmann Hentze wrote:
dpkg -S /lib/systemd /etc/systemd
Thanks Tilmann,
I tried that command as well, though I usually use --search.
But I actually just found it, with find command (Doh!)
anto@d945gclf:~/packages/cron-3.0pl1-devuan$ find . -name cron.service
dear Noel,
I'm happy that you are back, we really miss DWN, but I'm also sorry to
contradict you on this one.
On Tue, 05 May 2015, Noel Torres wrote:
As a resume: If you want a systemd-free system, Devuan is your
distribution, and will always be. But if you want a system designed to
be
On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 11:49:34AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
Hi Noel,
Having any systemd-equipped Devuan packages means that I need to always
be on my guard to prevent systemd from sneaking in.
Could segregate the packages by putting them in another category, so
we'd have free, contrib,
On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 04:52:44PM +, Noel Torres wrote:
[cut]
Because it is so intrincately depended on by the core of a Debian
system that we can not simply get Debian and remove the systemd
bits. We owe our users a truly systemd-free system, and that's why
we are here, but we do not
On 05/05/15 19:50, Peter Maloney wrote:
On 05/05/2015 08:55 AM, Anto wrote:
Just FYI. I just noticed that the changes that I have made seem to
break udev. It was not started after reboot- I have not investigate
further, but re-installing udev solve the problem. It seems that I
have to
Anto arya...@chello.at escribió:
On 05/05/15 18:52, Noel Torres wrote:
As a resume: If you want a systemd-free system, Devuan is your
distribution, and will always be. But if you want a system designed
to be unable to run systemd, please leave us. This is not the place
for such an
On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 02:43:09PM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:
[cut]
Well, yes. I can imagine a systemd hater who discovers down the road
that he needs a package that's been comtaminated with systemd. Maybe
instead of going whole-hog systemd, which is that the other distros
force him
On Tue, 5 May 2015 14:43:09 -0400
Hendrik Boom hend...@topoi.pooq.com wrote:
Well, yes. I can imagine a systemd hater who discovers down the road
that he needs a package that's been comtaminated with systemd. Maybe
instead of going whole-hog systemd, which is that the other distros
On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 07:33:32PM +, Noel Torres wrote:
[cut]
Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I follow Lennon on this. I Imagine a world
where systemd is optional (probably against its own core developers
wishes), and can be installed or deinstalled as any other init
system.
Well, you
On 05/05/15 01:27, Anto wrote:
Hello Everybody,
As I mentioned on
https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20150504.064731.04c39de7.en.html, in
my Devuan installation via debootstrap, I had to include
init-system-helpers in order to complete the installation. After the
installation, I purged
Le 04/05/2015 16:48, Steve Litt a écrit :
Hi all,
I just documented the boot process, from Grub through init.
See http://troubleshooters.com/linux/diy/howboot.htm
Hope you like it.
SteveT
Dear Steve, I have a few comments, more or less important to
understand how things work:
I will only say a few words.
The purpose of Devuan was to promote software freedom and more
specifically software choice. If systemd Co. change drastically,
which is clearly very unlikely to happen, it will be a completely
another situation, and systemd Co. may start forming part of a
project
But I guess there is no obstacle to for instance run vdev with systemd, huh?
On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Jaromil jaro...@dyne.org wrote:
dear Noel,
I'm happy that you are back, we really miss DWN, but I'm also sorry to
contradict you on this one.
On Tue, 05 May 2015, Noel Torres
On 05/05/2015 08:55 AM, Anto wrote:
Just FYI. I just noticed that the changes that I have made seem to
break udev. It was not started after reboot- I have not investigate
further, but re-installing udev solve the problem. It seems that I
have to re-compile udev as well. But it looks more
Am Dienstag, den 05.05.2015, 11:22 +0200 schrieb Didier Kryn:
I'm not sure what happens if init crashes after other processes have
been started, wether the kernel panics or other processes continue
without init - not a very good situation.
FWIW: I've seen this happening with a home grown
On 05/05/2015 11:22, Didier Kryn wrote:
I'm not sure what happens if init crashes after other processes have
been started, wether the kernel panics or other processes continue
without init - not a very good situation.
The Linux kernel panics when init dies. It's the dreaded attempted
to kill
Hello
* I then argue that in the current world, autocompletion is not
reliable, because since it does not stat(), it cannot hide filenames
the user cannot execute, such as a 0644 file. What your autocompletion
is currently printing is an approximation of the programs you can run,
not an
On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 12:29:59PM +0200, Jürgen Buchmüller wrote:
Am Dienstag, den 05.05.2015, 11:22 +0200 schrieb Didier Kryn:
I'm not sure what happens if init crashes after other processes have
been started, wether the kernel panics or other processes continue
without init - not a very
David Harrison wrote:
On 05/05/2015 20:43, dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org wrote:
Well, the problem here is that systemd is*not* hot-pluggable, at all,
as we have recently learned the hard way.
Here's a thought. Thrown to the list with no requisite knowledge to
back it up, so please don't bite!
Noel Torres [2015-05-05 18:52]:
As a resume: If you want a systemd-free system, Devuan is your
distribution, and will always be.
At the moment, it is either Trios or Funtoo or Slackware, right? Or some
limited distro like Alpine (which I run on my netbook).
--
Hilsen Harald
KatolaZ wrote:
On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 03:53:55PM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:
[cut]
Unfortunately, systemd has been *designed* to be unpluggable, and to
munch as much as possible of the low-level userspace. We should live
with it, especially because the typical answer you get about systemd
On 05/05/15 21:41, Noel Torres wrote:
Anto arya...@chello.at escribió:
On 05/05/15 18:52, Noel Torres wrote:
As a resume: If you want a systemd-free system, Devuan is your
distribution, and will always be. But if you want a system designed
to be unable to run systemd, please leave us.
Hello Everybody,
I pinned *systemd* packages into Pin-Priority: -1, and re-compiled cron
package without anything related to systemd. But there is still
/lib/systemd/system/cron.service file as we can see below.
anto@d945gclf:~/packages/cron-3.0pl1-devuan$ grep -R systemd *
debian/changelog:
49 matches
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