Re: [libreoffice-documentation] problem w/Base Handbook
Hello all, The immediate solution I've adopted is to reference /both/ "GS w/Base" /and/ the online tutorial in the problematic passage in the Handbook. I will post that chapter for review shortly. As for the long-term issue, there may or may not be one. The question is whether or not we want to keep the English and German documentation in sync, and also if we want to avoid duplication of content in the English documentation. We're dealing here with 4 documents: (1)"Getting Started with Base", Chapter 8 in Getting Started with Libreoffice v.3.5 (2)"Einfuehrung in Base," Kapitel 8 in Erste Schritte v.3.3 (3)"Creating a Relational Database using Base" (online tutorial) (4)"Getting Started with Base" in GS w/LO v.4.2 Items (1),(2), and (3) are all versions of each other; item (4) is substantially different. Apparently the way this happened is that an early version of GSw/B got translated into German as "Einfuehrung in Base". That German chapter has stayed the same. When GSw/LO was updated from v.4.1 to v.4.2, the bulk of GSw/B was pulled out and made into an online tutorial, and new material was written and inserted as Chapter 8 of the print guide. The new material contains much more detailed information about how to use the Wizard to create tables than is in the material moved online. Although the online material (item 3) is called a tutorial, the current version of Chapter 8 (GSw/B 4.2) actually seems to me to be more tutorial-like; the steps it offers are more detailed and it includes practice exercises. If we want to keep the English and the German matching each other, the way to do it would be: -- take the current English online tutorial "Creating a relational database" -- restructure it to resemble the Einfuehrung (this wouldn't require much if any original writing, just moving some things around) -- insert the restructured document into "Getting Started with LibreOffice" as Chapter 8. We'd then have to decide what to do with the /current/ version of GSw/B (the one that would be getting replaced). One possibility would be to integrate it into the new version. The topics are similar, but integrating it would require a lot of editing. I don't feel qualified to make a decision on how to proceed. Since Jean was involved in writing GSw/B 4.2 and presumably knows how and why the decision was made to branch the tutorial off from the print guide, perhaps we should wait until she's back and get her input. (Hope that wasn't too confusing. It sure confuses me.) Alan On 8/30/2014 10:45 AM, Robert Großkopf wrote: Hi Jean, Robert, does the previous English GS chapter, which is now available as a tutorial, cover the missing info? If so, Alan can just change the references from GS to the tutorial. Or we could include that tutorial in the Handbook as an Appendix; that would work too, perhaps better than sending people to a separate document. But either of those solutions depends on whether the tutorial covers the necessary info. Have downloaded http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/1/13/GS40-GettingStartedLO.pdf. The Base-chapter is the content, which would be missed in the Base-handbook (for example: "Creating tables in Design View"). So a link to "Chapter 8 - Getting started with Base" would work also for Base-Handbook 4.2. I will find a better solution in the next Base-Handbuch by copying the missed parts of the German "Getting started ..." into the chapters of the Base-Handbuch. Haven't seen the Base-Handbuch as a standalone-book. Thought it was a continuation of "Getting started". Robert -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] problem w/Base Handbook
Hi :) I think that rather than carry on with the 4.3 it might be better to carry on from where people have already gotten up to with the 4.2. Unless translation is really what you want to do in which case finding the 1 chapter that has been added and translating that might be really good. Regards from Tom :) On 30 August 2014 17:46, Alan Cook wrote: > Whew! I'm afraid it's going to take me a little while to process this > whole discussion. Thanks, everyone, for your input. > > Alan > > > On 8/30/2014 10:45 AM, Robert Großkopf wrote: > >> Hi Jean, >> >>> Robert, does the previous English GS chapter, which is now available >>> as a tutorial, cover the missing info? If so, Alan can just change the >>> references from GS to the tutorial. Or we could include that tutorial >>> in the Handbook as an Appendix; that would work too, perhaps better >>> than sending people to a separate document. But either of those >>> solutions depends on whether the tutorial covers the necessary info. >>> >> Have downloaded >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/1/13/GS40-GettingStartedLO.pdf. >> The Base-chapter is the content, which would be missed in the >> Base-handbook (for example: "Creating tables in Design View"). >> So a link to "Chapter 8 - Getting started with Base" would work also for >> Base-Handbook 4.2. >> >> I will find a better solution in the next Base-Handbuch by copying the >> missed parts of the German "Getting started ..." into the chapters of >> the Base-Handbuch. Haven't seen the Base-Handbuch as a standalone-book. >> Thought it was a continuation of "Getting started". >> >> Robert >> >> > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- > unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] problem w/Base Handbook
Hi :) Yeh, sorry! I thougth we had 2 people working on the Base Handbook and that 1 of those was duplicating work that has already been done by Hazel where nothing new has been added since Hazel did her translation. I didn't realise that redoing work that has already been done was not the problem and that it was ok to carry on redoing all the rest of the work that has also already been done. Regards from Tom :) On 30 August 2014 11:13, Jean Weber wrote: > Tom, please pay attention. Alan found a problem with references to the > Englsih Getting Started guide, which he did not realise has changed in > GSv4.2. Starting from scratch translating either the German 4.2 or 4.3 > Base Handbook into English would not solve the problem because > references from the Base Handbook to the Getting Started Guide would > still be wrong. > > I have just forwarded to the list three notes that I had written > earlier but failed to send as reply to all; instead I replied only to > Alan, so everyone else won't have seen them. In the third I mention > where the previous version of the Getting Started chapter is now > located, renamed as a tutorial. > > Robert, does the previous English GS chapter, which is now available > as a tutorial, cover the missing info? If so, Alan can just change the > references from GS to the tutorial. Or we could include that tutorial > in the Handbook as an Appendix; that would work too, perhaps better > than sending people to a separate document. But either of those > solutions depends on whether the tutorial covers the necessary info. > > --Jean > > On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 6:33 PM, Tom Davies wrote: > > Hi :) > > Ahh, i thought this was going to be done by only re-translating the bits > > that changed rather than starting from scratch each time? I think > starting > > from scratch occasionally might be a good idea to make sure everything > > really is covered. > > > > Now the question is whether to do the polishing off to Hazel's work on > the > > 4.2, or abandon that or to update her work for the 4.3 and then do the > > polishing off after the updating is done. > > > > I thought we had just agreed that the only change between the 4.2 German > > Handbook and the 4.3 is the addition of just 1 more full example? > > Regards from > > Tom :) > > > > > > > > On 30 August 2014 08:43, Robert Großkopf > wrote: > > > >> Hi Alan, > >> > >> hope I understand most you have written the right way. My > >> English-knowledge is "very special". > >> > > >> > I'm updating the English translation of the Base Handbook from 3.5 to > >> > 4.2, and have run across a problem concerning which I'd appreciate > some > >> > advice and feedback. > >> > > >> > In Chapter 3, "Tables," the section following the heading *Creating > >> > Tables/Creation using the GUI* begins as follows: > >> > > >> > "Database creation using the GUI is described in detail in Chapter 8, > >> > "Getting Started with Base," in the /Getting Started with LibreOffice/ > >> > book. Therefore only the main sources of error are described here." > >> > > >> > The problem is that [the first sentence of] that statement is just > plain > >> > false. > >> > >> I have written most of the Base-Handbuch. The "Getting Started with > >> Base" in German isn't the same as in English. Could be better to delete > >> anything which relates to "Getting started ..." > >> > >> And this is a special problem with most of the content here. Creating a > >> Database with wizards (incl. queries, forms ...) and creating databases > >> directly by using the GUI is declared in the German "Getting started > >> ..." This problem will be solved a littel bit with the German > >> Base-Handbuch 4.3. There is a example added. For the English > >> Base-handbook it would be better to add the German "Getting-started" as > >> attachment to the Base-handbook. > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> Robert > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] problem w/Base Handbook
Whew! I'm afraid it's going to take me a little while to process this whole discussion. Thanks, everyone, for your input. Alan On 8/30/2014 10:45 AM, Robert Großkopf wrote: Hi Jean, Robert, does the previous English GS chapter, which is now available as a tutorial, cover the missing info? If so, Alan can just change the references from GS to the tutorial. Or we could include that tutorial in the Handbook as an Appendix; that would work too, perhaps better than sending people to a separate document. But either of those solutions depends on whether the tutorial covers the necessary info. Have downloaded http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/1/13/GS40-GettingStartedLO.pdf. The Base-chapter is the content, which would be missed in the Base-handbook (for example: "Creating tables in Design View"). So a link to "Chapter 8 - Getting started with Base" would work also for Base-Handbook 4.2. I will find a better solution in the next Base-Handbuch by copying the missed parts of the German "Getting started ..." into the chapters of the Base-Handbuch. Haven't seen the Base-Handbuch as a standalone-book. Thought it was a continuation of "Getting started". Robert -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] problem w/Base Handbook
Hi Jean, > > Robert, does the previous English GS chapter, which is now available > as a tutorial, cover the missing info? If so, Alan can just change the > references from GS to the tutorial. Or we could include that tutorial > in the Handbook as an Appendix; that would work too, perhaps better > than sending people to a separate document. But either of those > solutions depends on whether the tutorial covers the necessary info. Have downloaded http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/1/13/GS40-GettingStartedLO.pdf. The Base-chapter is the content, which would be missed in the Base-handbook (for example: "Creating tables in Design View"). So a link to "Chapter 8 - Getting started with Base" would work also for Base-Handbook 4.2. I will find a better solution in the next Base-Handbuch by copying the missed parts of the German "Getting started ..." into the chapters of the Base-Handbuch. Haven't seen the Base-Handbuch as a standalone-book. Thought it was a continuation of "Getting started". Robert -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] problem w/Base Handbook
Tom, please pay attention. Alan found a problem with references to the Englsih Getting Started guide, which he did not realise has changed in GSv4.2. Starting from scratch translating either the German 4.2 or 4.3 Base Handbook into English would not solve the problem because references from the Base Handbook to the Getting Started Guide would still be wrong. I have just forwarded to the list three notes that I had written earlier but failed to send as reply to all; instead I replied only to Alan, so everyone else won't have seen them. In the third I mention where the previous version of the Getting Started chapter is now located, renamed as a tutorial. Robert, does the previous English GS chapter, which is now available as a tutorial, cover the missing info? If so, Alan can just change the references from GS to the tutorial. Or we could include that tutorial in the Handbook as an Appendix; that would work too, perhaps better than sending people to a separate document. But either of those solutions depends on whether the tutorial covers the necessary info. --Jean On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 6:33 PM, Tom Davies wrote: > Hi :) > Ahh, i thought this was going to be done by only re-translating the bits > that changed rather than starting from scratch each time? I think starting > from scratch occasionally might be a good idea to make sure everything > really is covered. > > Now the question is whether to do the polishing off to Hazel's work on the > 4.2, or abandon that or to update her work for the 4.3 and then do the > polishing off after the updating is done. > > I thought we had just agreed that the only change between the 4.2 German > Handbook and the 4.3 is the addition of just 1 more full example? > Regards from > Tom :) > > > > On 30 August 2014 08:43, Robert Großkopf wrote: > >> Hi Alan, >> >> hope I understand most you have written the right way. My >> English-knowledge is "very special". >> > >> > I'm updating the English translation of the Base Handbook from 3.5 to >> > 4.2, and have run across a problem concerning which I'd appreciate some >> > advice and feedback. >> > >> > In Chapter 3, "Tables," the section following the heading *Creating >> > Tables/Creation using the GUI* begins as follows: >> > >> > "Database creation using the GUI is described in detail in Chapter 8, >> > "Getting Started with Base," in the /Getting Started with LibreOffice/ >> > book. Therefore only the main sources of error are described here." >> > >> > The problem is that [the first sentence of] that statement is just plain >> > false. >> >> I have written most of the Base-Handbuch. The "Getting Started with >> Base" in German isn't the same as in English. Could be better to delete >> anything which relates to "Getting started ..." >> >> And this is a special problem with most of the content here. Creating a >> Database with wizards (incl. queries, forms ...) and creating databases >> directly by using the GUI is declared in the German "Getting started >> ..." This problem will be solved a littel bit with the German >> Base-Handbuch 4.3. There is a example added. For the English >> Base-handbook it would be better to add the German "Getting-started" as >> attachment to the Base-handbook. >> >> Regards >> >> Robert -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] problem w/Base Handbook
I failed to send this to the list. On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Jean Weber wrote: > The GS with Base chapter for LOv4.0 (available on the Publications > page of the wiki) does cover the Table Design View, but the one for > v4.2 does not. A quick solution to your immediate problem is to > explicitly refer to the GS v4.0 chapter. > > --Jean > > > On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:02 AM, Jean Weber wrote: >> The reason for the discrepancy is that the Getting Started chapter has >> changed since that was written. The previous chapter is now a >> standalone document, which should be referenced here instead of the GS >> chapter. It should be, but isn't, listed on the Publications page of >> the wiki. I'll find where it's gone, and let you know. And I'll list >> it on the wiki page. >> >> Thanks for catching this. >> >> --Jean >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Alan Cook wrote: >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I'm updating the English translation of the Base Handbook from 3.5 to 4.2, >>> and have run across a problem concerning which I'd appreciate some advice >>> and feedback. >>> >>> In Chapter 3, "Tables," the section following the heading *Creating >>> Tables/Creation using the GUI* begins as follows: >>> >>> "Database creation using the GUI is described in detail in Chapter 8, >>> "Getting Started with Base," in the /Getting Started with LibreOffice/ book. >>> Therefore only the main sources of error are described here." >>> >>> The problem is that [the first sentence of] that statement is just plain >>> false. >>> >>> The GUI offers two ways of creating tables: Use Wizard to Create Table and >>> Create Table in Design View. The /Getting Started/ chapter only provides >>> instructions for using the Wizard. The Wizard only provides database >>> templates with preexisting table and field names. If you want to design a >>> database for any purpose other than the ones that the templates cover, it's >>> useless. >>> >>> So far as I can tell, there are no instructions provided anywhere in our >>> documentation on how to create a table in Design View, which seems to me to >>> be the method that most users are likely to use. (I could well be wrong >>> about this, but if those instructions exist, they aren't located in the most >>> logical place to look for them.) >>> >>> Moreover, the /Getting Started/ chapter explains only how to create a flat, >>> single-table database. (I'm not sure why you'd want to do that rather than >>> just use a spreadsheet, but . . . .) The material in the handbook, on the >>> other hand, assumes that you're building a relational database with multiple >>> tables. >>> >>> The reason I can't just ignore the problem is and go on is: The section that >>> follows this introduction contains some new material in the German that >>> needs to be translated. Translated super-literally, it doesn't make much >>> sense. Good technical instructions are directed at the particular situation >>> in which the user is going to need those instructions and tailored to the >>> user's preexisting knowledge. That context is exactly what the current text >>> doesn't provide, and what I need in order to put this stuff into >>> comprehensible English. >>> >>> Any and all advice appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Alan >>> >>> -- >>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >>> Problems? >>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ >>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be >>> deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] problem w/Base Handbook
I failed to send this to the list. On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Jean Weber wrote: > Found it. I had turned it into a tutorial, titled "Creating a > Relational Database using Base", and it was listed in the HowTo and > Tutorial section of the Publications page. I have now copied that link > (and the link to the sample database used in the tutorial) to a spot > just below the Base Handbook on the Pubs page. > > I'm not sure how best to refer to that tutorial in the Base Handbook > itself, or whether we should restore the GS with Base chapter to its > earlier version, or what the least inelegant solution. > > --Jean > > > On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Jean Weber wrote: >> The GS with Base chapter for LOv4.0 (available on the Publications >> page of the wiki) does cover the Table Design View, but the one for >> v4.2 does not. A quick solution to your immediate problem is to >> explicitly refer to the GS v4.0 chapter. >> >> --Jean >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:02 AM, Jean Weber wrote: >>> The reason for the discrepancy is that the Getting Started chapter has >>> changed since that was written. The previous chapter is now a >>> standalone document, which should be referenced here instead of the GS >>> chapter. It should be, but isn't, listed on the Publications page of >>> the wiki. I'll find where it's gone, and let you know. And I'll list >>> it on the wiki page. >>> >>> Thanks for catching this. >>> >>> --Jean >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Alan Cook wrote: Hello all, I'm updating the English translation of the Base Handbook from 3.5 to 4.2, and have run across a problem concerning which I'd appreciate some advice and feedback. In Chapter 3, "Tables," the section following the heading *Creating Tables/Creation using the GUI* begins as follows: "Database creation using the GUI is described in detail in Chapter 8, "Getting Started with Base," in the /Getting Started with LibreOffice/ book. Therefore only the main sources of error are described here." The problem is that [the first sentence of] that statement is just plain false. The GUI offers two ways of creating tables: Use Wizard to Create Table and Create Table in Design View. The /Getting Started/ chapter only provides instructions for using the Wizard. The Wizard only provides database templates with preexisting table and field names. If you want to design a database for any purpose other than the ones that the templates cover, it's useless. So far as I can tell, there are no instructions provided anywhere in our documentation on how to create a table in Design View, which seems to me to be the method that most users are likely to use. (I could well be wrong about this, but if those instructions exist, they aren't located in the most logical place to look for them.) Moreover, the /Getting Started/ chapter explains only how to create a flat, single-table database. (I'm not sure why you'd want to do that rather than just use a spreadsheet, but . . . .) The material in the handbook, on the other hand, assumes that you're building a relational database with multiple tables. The reason I can't just ignore the problem is and go on is: The section that follows this introduction contains some new material in the German that needs to be translated. Translated super-literally, it doesn't make much sense. Good technical instructions are directed at the particular situation in which the user is going to need those instructions and tailored to the user's preexisting knowledge. That context is exactly what the current text doesn't provide, and what I need in order to put this stuff into comprehensible English. Any and all advice appreciated. Thanks, Alan -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] problem w/Base Handbook
On August 29, 2014 3:44:14 PM PDT, Alan Cook wrote: >The reason I can't just ignore the problem is and go on is: The section >that follows this introduction contains some new material in the German >that needs to be translated. Translated super-literally, it doesn't >make much sense. Good technical instructions are directed at the particular Option # 1: Write how to create a database using Design view, wizard, and whatever the other mode is; Option # 2: Include one line stating that it is assumed that the user knows how to do whatever is missing from the documentation, but to which explicit reference is made; My recommendation is Option # 2. jonathon -- Your documents. Your language. Your way. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] problem w/Base Handbook
I failed to send this to the list. On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:02 AM, Jean Weber wrote: > The reason for the discrepancy is that the Getting Started chapter has > changed since that was written. The previous chapter is now a > standalone document, which should be referenced here instead of the GS > chapter. It should be, but isn't, listed on the Publications page of > the wiki. I'll find where it's gone, and let you know. And I'll list > it on the wiki page. > > Thanks for catching this. > > --Jean > > > On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Alan Cook wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> I'm updating the English translation of the Base Handbook from 3.5 to 4.2, >> and have run across a problem concerning which I'd appreciate some advice >> and feedback. >> >> In Chapter 3, "Tables," the section following the heading *Creating >> Tables/Creation using the GUI* begins as follows: >> >> "Database creation using the GUI is described in detail in Chapter 8, >> "Getting Started with Base," in the /Getting Started with LibreOffice/ book. >> Therefore only the main sources of error are described here." >> >> The problem is that [the first sentence of] that statement is just plain >> false. >> >> The GUI offers two ways of creating tables: Use Wizard to Create Table and >> Create Table in Design View. The /Getting Started/ chapter only provides >> instructions for using the Wizard. The Wizard only provides database >> templates with preexisting table and field names. If you want to design a >> database for any purpose other than the ones that the templates cover, it's >> useless. >> >> So far as I can tell, there are no instructions provided anywhere in our >> documentation on how to create a table in Design View, which seems to me to >> be the method that most users are likely to use. (I could well be wrong >> about this, but if those instructions exist, they aren't located in the most >> logical place to look for them.) >> >> Moreover, the /Getting Started/ chapter explains only how to create a flat, >> single-table database. (I'm not sure why you'd want to do that rather than >> just use a spreadsheet, but . . . .) The material in the handbook, on the >> other hand, assumes that you're building a relational database with multiple >> tables. >> >> The reason I can't just ignore the problem is and go on is: The section that >> follows this introduction contains some new material in the German that >> needs to be translated. Translated super-literally, it doesn't make much >> sense. Good technical instructions are directed at the particular situation >> in which the user is going to need those instructions and tailored to the >> user's preexisting knowledge. That context is exactly what the current text >> doesn't provide, and what I need in order to put this stuff into >> comprehensible English. >> >> Any and all advice appreciated. >> >> Thanks, >> Alan >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >> Problems? >> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be >> deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] problem w/Base Handbook
Hi Tom, > Ahh, i thought this was going to be done by only re-translating the bits > that changed rather than starting from scratch each time? I think starting > from scratch occasionally might be a good idea to make sure everything > really is covered. > > Now the question is whether to do the polishing off to Hazel's work on the > 4.2, or abandon that or to update her work for the 4.3 and then do the > polishing off after the updating is done. > > I thought we had just agreed that the only change between the 4.2 German > Handbook and the 4.3 is the addition of just 1 more full example? It isn't a problem of the Version 4.2 of Base Handbuch. It's also a problem of version 4.3 - the links to "Getting started ..." are also in this version. I will try to solve this with the next version of the Base Handbuch. I will put some content of the German "Getting Started" in the Base-Handbuch and will delete the links to "Getting started". When I wrote the Base-Handbuch I have never thought it would be translated and would only be a part of the German documentation. Had also never thought someone will print a book of it... Regards Robert -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] problem w/Base Handbook
Hi :) Ahh, i thought this was going to be done by only re-translating the bits that changed rather than starting from scratch each time? I think starting from scratch occasionally might be a good idea to make sure everything really is covered. Now the question is whether to do the polishing off to Hazel's work on the 4.2, or abandon that or to update her work for the 4.3 and then do the polishing off after the updating is done. I thought we had just agreed that the only change between the 4.2 German Handbook and the 4.3 is the addition of just 1 more full example? Regards from Tom :) On 30 August 2014 08:43, Robert Großkopf wrote: > Hi Alan, > > hope I understand most you have written the right way. My > English-knowledge is "very special". > > > > I'm updating the English translation of the Base Handbook from 3.5 to > > 4.2, and have run across a problem concerning which I'd appreciate some > > advice and feedback. > > > > In Chapter 3, "Tables," the section following the heading *Creating > > Tables/Creation using the GUI* begins as follows: > > > > "Database creation using the GUI is described in detail in Chapter 8, > > "Getting Started with Base," in the /Getting Started with LibreOffice/ > > book. Therefore only the main sources of error are described here." > > > > The problem is that [the first sentence of] that statement is just plain > > false. > > I have written most of the Base-Handbuch. The "Getting Started with > Base" in German isn't the same as in English. Could be better to delete > anything which relates to "Getting started ..." > > And this is a special problem with most of the content here. Creating a > Database with wizards (incl. queries, forms ...) and creating databases > directly by using the GUI is declared in the German "Getting started > ..." This problem will be solved a littel bit with the German > Base-Handbuch 4.3. There is a example added. For the English > Base-handbook it would be better to add the German "Getting-started" as > attachment to the Base-handbook. > > Regards > > Robert > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] problem w/Base Handbook
Hi Alan, hope I understand most you have written the right way. My English-knowledge is "very special". > > I'm updating the English translation of the Base Handbook from 3.5 to > 4.2, and have run across a problem concerning which I'd appreciate some > advice and feedback. > > In Chapter 3, "Tables," the section following the heading *Creating > Tables/Creation using the GUI* begins as follows: > > "Database creation using the GUI is described in detail in Chapter 8, > "Getting Started with Base," in the /Getting Started with LibreOffice/ > book. Therefore only the main sources of error are described here." > > The problem is that [the first sentence of] that statement is just plain > false. I have written most of the Base-Handbuch. The "Getting Started with Base" in German isn't the same as in English. Could be better to delete anything which relates to "Getting started ..." And this is a special problem with most of the content here. Creating a Database with wizards (incl. queries, forms ...) and creating databases directly by using the GUI is declared in the German "Getting started ..." This problem will be solved a littel bit with the German Base-Handbuch 4.3. There is a example added. For the English Base-handbook it would be better to add the German "Getting-started" as attachment to the Base-handbook. Regards Robert -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] problem w/Base Handbook
Hello all, I'm updating the English translation of the Base Handbook from 3.5 to 4.2, and have run across a problem concerning which I'd appreciate some advice and feedback. In Chapter 3, "Tables," the section following the heading *Creating Tables/Creation using the GUI* begins as follows: "Database creation using the GUI is described in detail in Chapter 8, "Getting Started with Base," in the /Getting Started with LibreOffice/ book. Therefore only the main sources of error are described here." The problem is that [the first sentence of] that statement is just plain false. The GUI offers two ways of creating tables: Use Wizard to Create Table and Create Table in Design View. The /Getting Started/ chapter only provides instructions for using the Wizard. The Wizard only provides database templates with preexisting table and field names. If you want to design a database for any purpose other than the ones that the templates cover, it's useless. So far as I can tell, there are no instructions provided anywhere in our documentation on how to create a table in Design View, which seems to me to be the method that most users are likely to use. (I could well be wrong about this, but if those instructions exist, they aren't located in the most logical place to look for them.) Moreover, the /Getting Started/ chapter explains only how to create a flat, single-table database. (I'm not sure why you'd want to do that rather than just use a spreadsheet, but . . . .) The material in the handbook, on the other hand, assumes that you're building a relational database with multiple tables. The reason I can't just ignore the problem is and go on is: The section that follows this introduction contains some new material in the German that needs to be translated. Translated super-literally, it doesn't make much sense. Good technical instructions are directed at the particular situation in which the user is going to need those instructions and tailored to the user's preexisting knowledge. That context is exactly what the current text doesn't provide, and what I need in order to put this stuff into comprehensible English. Any and all advice appreciated. Thanks, Alan -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
