Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - and everything else.
This all I've heard for three days. I wish the subject to be changed. If you want to work them once, work them once. If you want to work them 25 times, then do it. - Original Message - From: Zack Widup To: dx-chat Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - and everything else. Yes, I'm sure small pileups would develop occasionally to work some station. But without DXCC, I doubt anyone would be risking their lives and spending a fortune to go to places like Peter I or South Sandwich Islands. And a QSO with someone in a European country would have equal weight with a QSO with someone in Yemen. I'm sure there would be people who wanted to work as many countries as they could on all bands and modes. But I'm willing to bet the number would be much smaller. But that's not the way it is and I guess we just need to live with the existing situation. 73, Zack W9SZ On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Don Berger wrote: Well, let me ask this question: What would the ham radio world be like if there were no DXCC or similar awards? Arguably better in many ways. Among them, one could argue the ability to have prolonged and therefore interesting discussions with hams in other parts of the world would be enjoyable and equally as challenging as DX competition. The lack of a DXCC certificate in no way limits or precludes the challenge of working countries, band-countries, zones, counties, etc... The existence of certificates fills a need only among those who are compelled to demonstrate their accomplishment(s) to others who presumably couldn't care less. The accomplishment remains equal regardless. I won't enumerate problems like qrm, too-wide pileup spreads, a life outside ham radio, etc... Just my take but for every person who lives and breathes dx, there are many more who find enjoyment without external considerations. Don K1VSK --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - and everything else.
You are 100% right. DX-ing and contesting is a sport using a radio receiver and a transmitter. Participants making an effort to maximize their score, be it number of countries worked or points scored in a contest. Amateur radio is no longer a training ground for emergency or military communicators of the future. Just my 2c worth of personal opinion. 73 Lou KE1F On 6/6/2012 1:11 PM, Wayne Mills wrote: FWIW, DXCC wasn't something that the ARRL foisted on unsuspecting hams! It was a product of public demand, and it continued, and continued, and continues to this day. Wayne, N7NG Jackson Hole -Original Message- From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Jairam Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 10:44 AM To: dx-chat Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - and everything else. Besides, if DeSoto didn't come up with the idea, someone else would have. Ryan, N2RJ On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Zack Widup wrote: Yes, I'm sure small pileups would develop occasionally to work some station. But without DXCC, I doubt anyone would be risking their lives and spending a fortune to go to places like Peter I or South Sandwich Islands. And a QSO with someone in a European country would have equal weight with a QSO with someone in Yemen. I'm sure there would be people who wanted to work as many countries as they could on all bands and modes. But I'm willing to bet the number would be much smaller. But that's not the way it is and I guess we just need to live with the existing situation. 73, Zack W9SZ On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Don Berger wrote: Well, let me ask this question: What would the ham radio world be like if there were no DXCC or similar awards? Arguably better in many ways. Among them, one could argue the ability to have prolonged and therefore interesting discussions with hams in other parts of the world would be enjoyable and equally as challenging as DX competition. The lack of a DXCC certificate in no way limits or precludes the challenge of working countries, band-countries, zones, counties, etc... The existence of certificates fills a need only among those who are compelled to demonstrate their accomplishment(s) to others who presumably couldn't care less. The accomplishment remains equal regardless. I won't enumerate problems like qrm, too-wide pileup spreads, a life outside ham radio, etc... Just my take but for every person who lives and breathes dx, there are many more who find enjoyment without external considerations. Don K1VSK --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
RE: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - and everything else.
FWIW, DXCC wasn't something that the ARRL foisted on unsuspecting hams! It was a product of public demand, and it continued, and continued, and continues to this day. Wayne, N7NG Jackson Hole -Original Message- From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Jairam Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 10:44 AM To: dx-chat Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - and everything else. Besides, if DeSoto didn't come up with the idea, someone else would have. Ryan, N2RJ On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Zack Widup wrote: > > Yes, I'm sure small pileups would develop occasionally to work some station. > But without DXCC, I doubt anyone would be risking their lives and spending a > fortune to go to places like Peter I or South Sandwich Islands. And a QSO > with someone in a European country would have equal weight with a QSO with > someone in Yemen. > > I'm sure there would be people who wanted to work as many countries as they > could on all bands and modes. But I'm willing to bet the number would be > much smaller. > > But that's not the way it is and I guess we just need to live with the > existing situation. > > 73, Zack W9SZ > > > On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Don Berger wrote: >> >> >>> >>> Well, let me ask this question: What would the ham radio world be like >>> if there were no DXCC or similar awards? >> >> >> Arguably better in many ways. Among them, one could argue the ability to >> have prolonged and therefore interesting discussions with hams in other >> parts of the world would be enjoyable and equally as challenging as DX >> competition. >> >> The lack of a DXCC certificate in no way limits or precludes the challenge >> of working countries, band-countries, zones, counties, etc... The existence >> of certificates fills a need only among those who are compelled to >> demonstrate their accomplishment(s) to others who presumably couldn't care >> less. The accomplishment remains equal regardless. >> >> I won't enumerate problems like qrm, too-wide pileup spreads, a life >> outside ham radio, etc... >> >> Just my take but for every person who lives and breathes dx, there are >> many more who find enjoyment without external considerations. >> >> Don K1VSK > > > > --- > To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to > > imail...@njdxa.org > > In the message body put either > > unsubscribe dx-chat > > or > > subscribe dx-chat > > This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org > --- -- Ryan A. Jairam --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - and everything else.
Granted. As with all generalities, there is no one opinion with which everyone agrees. Which is why I prefaces my view with "arguably". Consider all the things about which we generally complain - wide pileups, poor manners in pileups, qrm, some qsl practices, the practice of illegal operations, the cost of exdeditions, the incentive created for people to "risk their lives"( a sad and ludicrous but valid example of what DXCC brings to the table), the very genesis of this thread - the controversy of leaderboards, etc. For all who find value in the DXCC program, there are counterpoints. All of which is a specious debate as the program won't somehow evaporate nor will the incentive to work dx stations by every conceivable manner. -- Original Message - From: Zack Widup To: dx-chat Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - and everything else. Yes, I'm sure small pileups would develop occasionally to work some station. But without DXCC, I doubt anyone would be risking their lives and spending a fortune to go to places like Peter I or South Sandwich Islands. And a QSO with someone in a European country would have equal weight with a QSO with someone in Yemen. I'm sure there would be people who wanted to work as many countries as they could on all bands and modes. But I'm willing to bet the number would be much smaller. But that's not the way it is and I guess we just need to live with the existing situation. 73, Zack W9SZ On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Don Berger wrote: Well, let me ask this question: What would the ham radio world be like if there were no DXCC or similar awards? Arguably better in many ways. Among them, one could argue the ability to have prolonged and therefore interesting discussions with hams in other parts of the world would be enjoyable and equally as challenging as DX competition. The lack of a DXCC certificate in no way limits or precludes the challenge of working countries, band-countries, zones, counties, etc... The existence of certificates fills a need only among those who are compelled to demonstrate their accomplishment(s) to others who presumably couldn't care less. The accomplishment remains equal regardless. I won't enumerate problems like qrm, too-wide pileup spreads, a life outside ham radio, etc... Just my take but for every person who lives and breathes dx, there are many more who find enjoyment without external considerations. Don K1VSK --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - and everything else.
Besides, if DeSoto didn't come up with the idea, someone else would have. Ryan, N2RJ On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Zack Widup wrote: > > Yes, I'm sure small pileups would develop occasionally to work some station. > But without DXCC, I doubt anyone would be risking their lives and spending a > fortune to go to places like Peter I or South Sandwich Islands. And a QSO > with someone in a European country would have equal weight with a QSO with > someone in Yemen. > > I'm sure there would be people who wanted to work as many countries as they > could on all bands and modes. But I'm willing to bet the number would be > much smaller. > > But that's not the way it is and I guess we just need to live with the > existing situation. > > 73, Zack W9SZ > > > On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Don Berger wrote: >> >> >>> >>> Well, let me ask this question: What would the ham radio world be like >>> if there were no DXCC or similar awards? >> >> >> Arguably better in many ways. Among them, one could argue the ability to >> have prolonged and therefore interesting discussions with hams in other >> parts of the world would be enjoyable and equally as challenging as DX >> competition. >> >> The lack of a DXCC certificate in no way limits or precludes the challenge >> of working countries, band-countries, zones, counties, etc... The existence >> of certificates fills a need only among those who are compelled to >> demonstrate their accomplishment(s) to others who presumably couldn't care >> less. The accomplishment remains equal regardless. >> >> I won't enumerate problems like qrm, too-wide pileup spreads, a life >> outside ham radio, etc... >> >> Just my take but for every person who lives and breathes dx, there are >> many more who find enjoyment without external considerations. >> >> Don K1VSK > > > > --- > To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to > > imail...@njdxa.org > > In the message body put either > > unsubscribe dx-chat > > or > > subscribe dx-chat > > This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org > --- -- Ryan A. Jairam --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - and everything else.
Yes, I'm sure small pileups would develop occasionally to work some station. But without DXCC, I doubt anyone would be risking their lives and spending a fortune to go to places like Peter I or South Sandwich Islands. And a QSO with someone in a European country would have equal weight with a QSO with someone in Yemen. I'm sure there would be people who wanted to work as many countries as they could on all bands and modes. But I'm willing to bet the number would be much smaller. But that's not the way it is and I guess we just need to live with the existing situation. 73, Zack W9SZ On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Don Berger wrote: > > >> Well, let me ask this question: What would the ham radio world be like >> if there were no DXCC or similar awards? >> > > Arguably better in many ways. Among them, one could argue the ability to > have prolonged and therefore interesting discussions with hams in other > parts of the world would be enjoyable and equally as challenging as DX > competition. > > The lack of a DXCC certificate in no way limits or precludes the challenge > of working countries, band-countries, zones, counties, etc... The existence > of certificates fills a need only among those who are compelled to > demonstrate their accomplishment(s) to others who presumably couldn't care > less. The accomplishment remains equal regardless. > > I won't enumerate problems like qrm, too-wide pileup spreads, a life > outside ham radio, etc... > > Just my take but for every person who lives and breathes dx, there are > many more who find enjoyment without external considerations. > > Don K1VSK > --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - and everything else.
You are stating your view of amateur radio, but it is certainly not universal. Some people hate long conversation on amateur radio, or any medium for that matter. I rarely ever have a long conversation on amateur radio. To me that's not really the point of the medium. In fact I have more conversations with hams (and others) on VOIP services such as Skype. There are no content restrictions and we're not subject to QRM, QRN and the like and it is private among us. I can use any medium to talk. But to experiment with and play with radio, I use amateur radio. This includes DXing, which lets me investigate radio wave propagation as well as improve my station and compare how it performs to others. And this whole "accomplishment is equal" stuff? Works for some people, not for others. There is definitely competition, whether it be between hams in a club or against strangers who you don't know, or even your past accomplishments. Not everyone wants to be casual. Some want to be competitive. Ryan, N2RJ On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Don Berger wrote: > > >> >> Well, let me ask this question: What would the ham radio world be like >> if there were no DXCC or similar awards? > > > Arguably better in many ways. Among them, one could argue the ability to > have prolonged and therefore interesting discussions with hams in other > parts of the world would be enjoyable and equally as challenging as DX > competition. > > The lack of a DXCC certificate in no way limits or precludes the challenge > of working countries, band-countries, zones, counties, etc... The existence > of certificates fills a need only among those who are compelled to > demonstrate their accomplishment(s) to others who presumably couldn't care > less. The accomplishment remains equal regardless. > > I won't enumerate problems like qrm, too-wide pileup spreads, a life outside > ham radio, etc... > > Just my take but for every person who lives and breathes dx, there are many > more who find enjoyment without external considerations. > > Don K1VSK > > > --- > To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to > > imail...@njdxa.org > In the message body put either > unsubscribe dx-chat > > or > subscribe dx-chat > > This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org > --- > -- Ryan A. Jairam --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - and everything else.
Well, let me ask this question: What would the ham radio world be like if there were no DXCC or similar awards? Arguably better in many ways. Among them, one could argue the ability to have prolonged and therefore interesting discussions with hams in other parts of the world would be enjoyable and equally as challenging as DX competition. The lack of a DXCC certificate in no way limits or precludes the challenge of working countries, band-countries, zones, counties, etc... The existence of certificates fills a need only among those who are compelled to demonstrate their accomplishment(s) to others who presumably couldn't care less. The accomplishment remains equal regardless. I won't enumerate problems like qrm, too-wide pileup spreads, a life outside ham radio, etc... Just my take but for every person who lives and breathes dx, there are many more who find enjoyment without external considerations. Don K1VSK --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - and everything else.
Isn't it nice that we can discuss things like this. So much better than complaining about the weather! But, in the light of recent discussions an old adage comes to mind: "For every problem there is a solution. For every solution there is ...!" Not that I have the solution. I'm not sure that I even understand the problem. But, it's fun talking about it! I get nervous when things get overly quiet. Keep up the good work! 73 & DXEd W2HTI --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - and everything else.
Well, let me ask this question: What would the ham radio world be like if there were no DXCC or similar awards? How much would a DX station in some semi-rare place like Andorra get pileups when he was on the air? I could see someone like JY1 having pileups whether or not there was a DXCC, but there aren't that many celebrities in amateur radio. I suspect if there were no DXCC, people would just work DX once in a while for the novelty of it and there would be actual conversations taking place, not just "599 TU." And no one else would care. I myself am not trying to make HR on every band and every mode. Is there anyone who does have HR on every band? Right now I'm just interested in HR for the basic Mixed award. DXing is only competitive in the case where a DXpedition is only going to have a limited amount of time and is only going to make a certain number of QSO's. If a station is only going to have propagation to an area of the world for a couple hours on a certain band (say 20 meters as was the case to the USA for the last VU7 operation) then if they spend all their time working other areas of the world who want to fill their band/modes during those couple hours, they are going to get someone angry. Someone is going to get cheated. A DXpedition to a Pacific island did just that a few years ago. They only worked JA's on the low bands during the US sunrise. I think they got a lot of us upset. I commend the A5A operation for only working NA stations during the couple hours that they have peak propagation to here. Some people who actually live in a certain country or who have lived there for a couple years on an assignment usually work everyone who wants a QSO. I think of A22MN as an example. I heard him calling CQ with no takers after he'd been in Botswana for a year. That doesn't look like competition to me. But Dave was on the air a lot. Monk Apollo isn't on the air that much and is still in demand. I guess you'd have to look at each station on an individual basis. It's very rare that someone is going to make everyone happy. 73, Zack W9SZ On 6/6/12, Ernie Walls wrote: > > Question. > > > > Just what is wrong, exactly, with working a DXpedition by band/mode? > > > > What's the problem? > > > > Isn't that what we all want to do anyway, that is, work everyone on all > bands and all modes? Isn't that why the DXpedition goes too far flung > places > at great expense for - to have as many QSOs as they can. > > > > Why do we have so many people 'setting the rules' for others. > > > > Seems to me if you work what you want then I will not say anything to you, > and if I work what I want, then I don't expect you to say anything (to me, > that is). Seems like it might work OK! > > > > Only one over-riding rule - we all do it with some dignity and fairness to > all. > > > > I get sick of being told what to do by others - my government runs most of > my life, my XYL most of the rest of it - guys, give me a break and let me > live what is left by my own rules. Because I most certainly will not be > taking any notice of any of you, anyway. > > > > Some years ago, our (then) Prime Minister said something like 'life wasn't > meant to be easy'! He was right, you know. > > > > Good DXing to all. Fair and dignified, that is. > > > > Ernie > > Ernie H Walls VK3FM > > vk...@wallsy.com.au > > Mobile 0418 301 483 > > > > > > > > --- > To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to > > imail...@njdxa.org > > In the message body put either > > unsubscribe dx-chat > > or > > subscribe dx-chat > > This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org > --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - and everything else.
People are talking about "DX hogs" and "giving others a chance" but in reality DXing is a competitive endeavor. It is never going to be "fair" and "even" for everyone. Ask yourself - why do you DX? Why do you submit your cards for DXCC? Why do you keep totals? Why do you work more than 100 countries? If you are on Honor Roll, why do you keep working more entities? Why do you pay $2 $5, $10 or more for a piece of paper to prove that you did something? The answer is because DXing is all about competition, and we are competing against ourselves and each other. The rules of the game are clearly spelt out - you can obtain many different kinds of awards. So why should people not avail themselves of the chance? If someone wants to fill up all the green slots, then let them do so! You don't know their motivation. You may think that they are doing it to lessen the pleasure of others but in most cases it is not so. I personally work as many as I can (given time constraints, because ya know, life gets in the way) because I don't know if a particular entity is going to show up on a particular band/mode ever again. With world politics, war, dictatorial regimes, terrorism, or just some bureaucrat itching to say no, you never know when you'll get to work all of the slots for a particular entity. Right now I have mixed and I am working towards challenge and 5 band... but in the future I may decide to apply for CW, phone, digital DXCC, or individual band endorsements. How do I know if Yemen, Desecheo, Somalia or some other entity is going to come on air EVER again in my lifetime? I don't. So I work them now, and keep those QSOs "in the bank" in case I decide to get some other award later on. I do agree that those making multiple QSOs, same band, mode are abusing the system. But if you are doing DIFFERENT band/mode slots, I don't see the problem. Off soap box 73 Ryan, N2RJ --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
[DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - and everything else.
Question. Just what is wrong, exactly, with working a DXpedition by band/mode? What's the problem? Isn't that what we all want to do anyway, that is, work everyone on all bands and all modes? Isn't that why the DXpedition goes too far flung places at great expense for - to have as many QSOs as they can. Why do we have so many people 'setting the rules' for others. Seems to me if you work what you want then I will not say anything to you, and if I work what I want, then I don't expect you to say anything (to me, that is). Seems like it might work OK! Only one over-riding rule - we all do it with some dignity and fairness to all. I get sick of being told what to do by others - my government runs most of my life, my XYL most of the rest of it - guys, give me a break and let me live what is left by my own rules. Because I most certainly will not be taking any notice of any of you, anyway. Some years ago, our (then) Prime Minister said something like 'life wasn't meant to be easy'! He was right, you know. Good DXing to all. Fair and dignified, that is. Ernie Ernie H Walls VK3FM vk...@wallsy.com.au Mobile 0418 301 483 --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
