[Elecraft] OT: Security camera on your mast

[Erik Basilier]

Sorry if this is too OT for most:

 

I am considering security cameras for my home/qth. There are a lot of
package systems available these days, but my initial interest is for a
single camera mounted near the top of my tower/mast (rotatable of course).
Already available at the mounting point is a 50 ohm coax that I would use as
the only connection to the camera. The systems I see marketed use other
types of connections. Question: can anyone point me to a source for a
security camera for outdoor use, without additional weatherization, that can
be connected by a single coax only? Secondary considerations: Small wind
load is desirable. Good sensitivity for night use is desirable, but without
use of illumination devices (IR or visible) in the camera (another of my
hobbies is astronomical imaging). Of course, there is also the issue of
suitable recording devices, which may demand certain types of cabling.

 

Thanks in advance for any ideas. Please email me off list.

 

73,

Erik K7TV

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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB in 9.0 quakes

[Josh]

I'd say ARRL Handbook, Antenna book and Operating Manual are a must in every 
ham's library. I got a set when first licensed in the '70s. Bought an updated 
set 25 years later. It's been 15 years and I just got a new handbook. Probably 
due for the new version antenna book. These are first rate reference material. 

My .02

73,
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device

> On Apr 30, 2017, at 9:31 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> Grerald,
> 
> I would suggest that everyone obtain the ARRL Antenna Handbook.
> Ignore the sections dealing with specifics, but study the sections dealing 
> with basic antennas and transmission lines.  Once you obtain a grasp of those 
> fundamentals, you can extend that to an understanding of all antennas.
> 
> There are many other sources, but for the basic information on antenna 
> fundamentals is essential to understanding all the other antenna 
> implementations.
> 
> Do not concentrate on the specific antennas, but study the antenna principles 
> on which all those specific antenna implementations are based.
> 
> Hams often concentrate on specific antenna designs and ignore the basic 
> principles on which those designs are based.  If you start with the 
> principles, then you can better understand the "wherefore and the why" of 
> those specific designs.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR

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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB in 9.0 quakes

[Don Wilhelm]

Stan,

Turn the power down while experimenting and you should not "blow the 
finals".
I am 77 and still learning, so age is not an excuse.  It is never too 
late to learn.
Besides, it exercises the brain which is known to provide a hedge to 
dementia.
That is why I am still repairing Elecraft gear.  Each problem presents a 
unique challenge and keeps my brain active.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/1/2017 12:17 AM, Stanley Petrowski wrote:
Thanks again Don. I'm working on that.  I agree that this skill set is 
fast fading. One of the interesting aspects of the ham circles I am 
affiliated with is that we are all well over 65 and most beyond that.
I have secured many hundreds of feet of good quality coax, spools of 
wire to build traps and more wire to use for building antennas. In the 
end it is all part of a huge learning curve and skill set development. 
I devote what time I can to it all but confess there isn't a lot of 
time left. I am very impressed with what antenna tuners can do and 
sincerely hope I don't blow the finals on a stupid experiment.


73
Stan
KG7FYI
  -.-  --.  --...  ..-.  -.--  .. ><º>


On 04/30/2017 08:20 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
One important thing I forget to mention is that you should learn how 
to construct your own effective antennas.
To my mind, that skill may be critical in an emergency. and with the 
proliferation (and acceptance) of ready made manufactured antennas, I 
am afraid that skill is decreasing in ham radio circles.  Yes, it 
does take a bit of studying and experimenting, but is not really that 
difficult. If you can do simple multiplication and division, you can 
calculate the length of a halfwave antenna that can be used for 
effective communications - all it takes is some wire and a feedline.


73,
Don W3FPR 





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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB in 9.0 quakes

[Don Wilhelm]

Grerald,

I would suggest that everyone obtain the ARRL Antenna Handbook.
Ignore the sections dealing with specifics, but study the sections 
dealing with basic antennas and transmission lines.  Once you obtain a 
grasp of those fundamentals, you can extend that to an understanding of 
all antennas.


There are many other sources, but for the basic information on antenna 
fundamentals is essential to understanding all the other antenna 
implementations.


Do not concentrate on the specific antennas, but study the antenna 
principles on which all those specific antenna implementations are based.


Hams often concentrate on specific antenna designs and ignore the basic 
principles on which those designs are based.  If you start with the 
principles, then you can better understand the "wherefore and the why" 
of those specific designs.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/1/2017 12:14 AM, Gerald Manthey wrote:

Don
I couldn't agree with you more I am guilty of this too. What books could you 
recommend I start with?
Thanks
Gerald KC6CNN



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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB in 9.0 quakes

[Stanley Petrowski]

Thanks again Don. I'm working on that.  I agree that this skill set is 
fast fading. One of the interesting aspects of the ham circles I am 
affiliated with is that we are all well over 65 and most beyond that.
I have secured many hundreds of feet of good quality coax, spools of 
wire to build traps and more wire to use for building antennas. In the 
end it is all part of a huge learning curve and skill set development. I 
devote what time I can to it all but confess there isn't a lot of time 
left. I am very impressed with what antenna tuners can do and sincerely 
hope I don't blow the finals on a stupid experiment.


73
Stan
KG7FYI
  -.-  --.  --...  ..-.  -.--  .. ><º>


On 04/30/2017 08:20 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
One important thing I forget to mention is that you should learn how 
to construct your own effective antennas.
To my mind, that skill may be critical in an emergency. and with the 
proliferation (and acceptance) of ready made manufactured antennas, I 
am afraid that skill is decreasing in ham radio circles.  Yes, it does 
take a bit of studying and experimenting, but is not really that 
difficult. If you can do simple multiplication and division, you can 
calculate the length of a halfwave antenna that can be used for 
effective communications - all it takes is some wire and a feedline.


73,
Don W3FPR 


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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB in 9.0 quakes

[Gerald Manthey]

Don 
I couldn't agree with you more I am guilty of this too. What books could you 
recommend I start with? 
Thanks 
Gerald KC6CNN 

> On Apr 30, 2017, at 10:20 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> One important thing I forget to mention is that you should learn how to 
> construct your own effective antennas.
> To my mind, that skill may be critical in an emergency. and with the 
> proliferation (and acceptance) of ready made manufactured antennas, I am 
> afraid that skill is decreasing in ham radio circles.  Yes, it does take a 
> bit of studying and experimenting, but is not really that difficult. If you 
> can do simple multiplication and division, you can calculate the length of a 
> halfwave antenna that can be used for effective communications - all it takes 
> is some wire and a feedline.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> -
> Stan,
> 
> While you have made your motives clear, if such an emergency does arise, just 
> powering up radios and transmitting can result in communications chaos.
> 
> I encourage you to get on the air not only to familiarize yourself with your 
> equipment, but also to experiment with a variety of antennas that can be 
> deployed easily - your home antennas will likely come down in such a disaster.
> 
> Get involved with local ECOM organizations, and if they do not exist for you, 
> form one.
> Ordered nets are the norm during emergencies, and someone has to act as net 
> control - to whom all traffic is directed.  Establish standard frequencies 
> and practice, practice, practice so that all participating know the format 
> and the rules of proper operating.
> 
> You might want to consider taking an example (and perhaps some guidance) from 
> the National Hurricane Net, which many of us are quite familiar with here on 
> the East coast.
> 
> In the event of a disaster in your area, you will likely be forced to use low 
> power to conserve battery power and depend on relays from individuals who can 
> run higher power outside the disaster area.
> 
> You may have to learn to setup and use digital modes as well as voice in 
> cooperation with your local and area Emergency Communications Center (ECO) 
> which coordinate Police, Fire, Rescue, Hospitals and other emergency services 
> during a disaster.
> That is all very organized communications.  If you are concerned about a 
> disaster, I recommend you become familiar with it and hold practice sessions 
> communicating with other concerned hams.  Many EOCs hold simulated emergency 
> drills that you might want to participate in.
> ARRL Radio Amateur Field Day is a good exercise in setting up a functional 
> station in a short order of time and operating on generators or other forms 
> of emergency power.
> 
> Communication of Health and Welfare information can occur on non-emergency 
> frequencies in the ham bands, but that still needs to be done in an orderly 
> fashion since those in the disaster area can be expected to be operating at 
> low power and depending on relays from outside the area.  There are formats 
> for messages that operators should observe so the message gets to the 
> intended recipient in an orderly fashion.  The ARRL information is quite 
> helpful for the formats and relay net operating procedures.
> 
> What I am trying to say is that the formats and operating procedures for 
> emergency communications is already in place, and you should become familiar 
> with them and practice with your own local group and/or participate in 
> national nets and exercises.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
>> On 4/30/2017 9:41 PM, KG7FYI wrote:
>> I'd like to say
>> that radio is a hobby but the fact is that my only motive was that lives
>> are at stake.  I'm learning.
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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB in 9.0 quakes

[KG7FYI]

Well taken Don. The capacity to be mobile, versatile and functional is 
my primary goal. It all takes time and I am old. I'm doing my best for 
my small community.

73
Stan
KG7FYI
  -.-  --.  --...  ..-.  -.--  .. ><º>



On 04/30/2017 08:22 PM, Don Wilhelm [via Elecraft] wrote:
> One important thing I forget to mention is that you should learn how to
> construct your own effective antennas.
> To my mind, that skill may be critical in an emergency. and with the
> proliferation (and acceptance) of ready made manufactured antennas, I am
> afraid that skill is decreasing in ham radio circles.  Yes, it does take
> a bit of studying and experimenting, but is not really that difficult.
> If you can do simple multiplication and division, you can calculate the
> length of a halfwave antenna that can be used for effective
> communications - all it takes is some wire and a feedline.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR





-
Stan KG7FYI
--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-P3-and-KAT500-tp7629969p7630166.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Affordability of the *NEW* K-Line

[Rick Dettinger]

> 
And, that was for an amplifier that would have been closer to the KPA500 amp.  
About 500 watts out.

73, Rick, K7MW 

> Collins 30S-1 Linear Amplifier (1 KW), 1958, original cost: $1556, cost in 
> 2017 dollars: $13,264
> 
> 
> 
> So, a new technology K-Line is not that bad as something equivalent from 
> Collins back in the 1950s
> could easily cost 4 times as much today!
> 
> 73, phil, K7PEH
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB in 9.0 quakes

[Don Wilhelm]

One important thing I forget to mention is that you should learn how to 
construct your own effective antennas.
To my mind, that skill may be critical in an emergency. and with the 
proliferation (and acceptance) of ready made manufactured antennas, I am 
afraid that skill is decreasing in ham radio circles.  Yes, it does take 
a bit of studying and experimenting, but is not really that difficult. 
If you can do simple multiplication and division, you can calculate the 
length of a halfwave antenna that can be used for effective 
communications - all it takes is some wire and a feedline.


73,
Don W3FPR

-
Stan,

While you have made your motives clear, if such an emergency does arise, 
just powering up radios and transmitting can result in communications chaos.


I encourage you to get on the air not only to familiarize yourself with 
your equipment, but also to experiment with a variety of antennas that 
can be deployed easily - your home antennas will likely come down in 
such a disaster.


Get involved with local ECOM organizations, and if they do not exist for 
you, form one.
Ordered nets are the norm during emergencies, and someone has to act as 
net control - to whom all traffic is directed.  Establish standard 
frequencies and practice, practice, practice so that all participating 
know the format and the rules of proper operating.


You might want to consider taking an example (and perhaps some guidance) 
from the National Hurricane Net, which many of us are quite familiar 
with here on the East coast.


In the event of a disaster in your area, you will likely be forced to 
use low power to conserve battery power and depend on relays from 
individuals who can run higher power outside the disaster area.


You may have to learn to setup and use digital modes as well as voice in 
cooperation with your local and area Emergency Communications Center 
(ECO) which coordinate Police, Fire, Rescue, Hospitals and other 
emergency services during a disaster.
That is all very organized communications.  If you are concerned about a 
disaster, I recommend you become familiar with it and hold practice 
sessions communicating with other concerned hams.  Many EOCs hold 
simulated emergency drills that you might want to participate in.
ARRL Radio Amateur Field Day is a good exercise in setting up a 
functional station in a short order of time and operating on generators 
or other forms of emergency power.


Communication of Health and Welfare information can occur on 
non-emergency frequencies in the ham bands, but that still needs to be 
done in an orderly fashion since those in the disaster area can be 
expected to be operating at low power and depending on relays from 
outside the area.  There are formats for messages that operators should 
observe so the message gets to the intended recipient in an orderly 
fashion.  The ARRL information is quite helpful for the formats and 
relay net operating procedures.


What I am trying to say is that the formats and operating procedures for 
emergency communications is already in place, and you should become 
familiar with them and practice with your own local group and/or 
participate in national nets and exercises.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/30/2017 9:41 PM, KG7FYI wrote:
I'd like to say

that radio is a hobby but the fact is that my only motive was that lives
are at stake.  I'm learning.

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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB in 9.0 quakes

[Ken Talbott]

Hazel left me with a downed Willow tree fort in Virginia for weeks until the 
adults arrived with saws to remove it.
Ken ke4rg

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Walter 
Underwood
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 6:36 PM
To: Elecraft List 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB in 9.0 quakes

I was at work during the Loma Prieta earthquake. Our HP building (now a Tesla 
building) on Deer Creek Road had hydrogen piping and  HF Waste  piping. That 
was fine, but a 4  main in the sprinkler system broke, soaking lab notebooks. I 
remember planning a route home to Mountain View that did not go under or over 
any bridges. I still had to deal with a water main break.

And then there was Hurricane Betsy when I was growing up in Baton Rouge. No 
phone for 7 days and no power for 10 days. The toppled red oak in the back yard 
was the best tree fort ever.

 

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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB in 9.0 quakes

[Don Wilhelm]

Stan,

While you have made your motives clear, if such an emergency does arise, 
just powering up radios and transmitting can result in communications chaos.


I encourage you to get on the air not only to familiarize yourself with 
your equipment, but also to experiment with a variety of antennas that 
can be deployed easily - your home antennas will likely come down in 
such a disaster.


Get involved with local ECOM organizations, and if they do not exist for 
you, form one.
Ordered nets are the norm during emergencies, and someone has to act as 
net control - to whom all traffic is directed.  Establish standard 
frequencies and practice, practice, practice so that all participating 
know the format and the rules of proper operating.


You might want to consider taking an example (and perhaps some guidance) 
from the National Hurricane Net, which many of us are quite familiar 
with here on the East coast.


In the event of a disaster in your area, you will likely be forced to 
use low power to conserve battery power and depend on relays from 
individuals who can run higher power outside the disaster area.


You may have to learn to setup and use digital modes as well as voice in 
cooperation with your local and area Emergency Communications Center 
(ECO) which coordinate Police, Fire, Rescue, Hospitals and other 
emergency services during a disaster.
That is all very organized communications.  If you are concerned about a 
disaster, I recommend you become familiar with it and hold practice 
sessions communicating with other concerned hams.  Many EOCs hold 
simulated emergency drills that you might want to participate in.
ARRL Radio Amateur Field Day is a good exercise in setting up a 
functional station in a short order of time and operating on generators 
or other forms of emergency power.


Communication of Health and Welfare information can occur on 
non-emergency frequencies in the ham bands, but that still needs to be 
done in an orderly fashion since those in the disaster area can be 
expected to be operating at low power and depending on relays from 
outside the area.  There are formats for messages that operators should 
observe so the message gets to the intended recipient in an orderly 
fashion.  The ARRL information is quite helpful for the formats and 
relay net operating procedures.


What I am trying to say is that the formats and operating procedures for 
emergency communications is already in place, and you should become 
familiar with them and practice with your own local group and/or 
participate in national nets and exercises.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/30/2017 9:41 PM, KG7FYI wrote:
I'd like to say

that radio is a hobby but the fact is that my only motive was that lives
are at stake.  I'm learning.

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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB

[Phil Kane]

On 4/30/2017 7:03 PM, KG7FYI wrote:

> I am planning guy wires even on the standalone to help but as you note 
> when it starts all bets are off.

Are you a structural engineer?  Even my consulting engineering company
turns to those experts when doing stations that involve antenna tower
survivability.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Carol Dauer, SK

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Thank you for doing that. 

You do indeed have many friends. Feel free to reach out again to help you
through this painful time. 

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dauer,
Edward
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 6:39 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Carol Dauer, SK

 This post is as O.T. as any could possibly be, and selfish to boot; but
sending it is of some importance to me.  Last week my wife of more than 50
years passed away, after a nearly three-year run battling a very nasty form
of cancer.  She died, in hospice, comfortable and at peace.

I write this because I am trying to fill a vast hole in my life, doing
busy-work and settling affairs and, more to the point, corresponding with
friends and family.  Over the years I have come to regard many of the
participants in this reflector as friends, even though I have met in person
only three or four.

I expect no replies. And if there are any I ask that they be off-line.  

Thanks for tolerating this personal and maudlin use of the bandwidth.  It is
hard to say why it mattered, but I felt the need to express my loss.

Thanks,

Ted, KN1CBR


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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB

[KG7FYI]

I am planning guy wires even on the standalone to help but as you note 
when it starts all bets are off.
73
Stan
KG7FYI
  -.-  --.  --...  ..-.  -.--  .. ><º>


On 04/30/2017 06:23 PM, Phil Kane-2 [via Elecraft] wrote:
> On 4/30/2017 1:22 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
>
> > I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes. Being 
> able
> > to work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute for any 
> emergency plan.
>
> Radio Station KGO(AM)  in San Francisco has its transmitting plant
> (directional array with three self-supporting towers) not too far off
> the San Andreas Fault that shook in the 1989 Loma Prieta Earthquake.
> The top section of one of the towers folded down upon itself - and those
> were big strong towers.  The entire array was rebuilt.
>
> 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
> Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402
>
> From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
> Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon 





-
Stan KG7FYI
--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-P3-and-KAT500-tp7629969p7630160.html
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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB

[KG7FYI]

Duly bookmarked. Thanks.

73
Stan
KG7FYI
  -.-  --.  --...  ..-.  -.--  .. ><º>


On 04/30/2017 12:01 PM, Jim Brown-10 [via Elecraft] wrote:
>
> http://k9yc.com/AntennaPlanning.pdf addresses this with a table and
> graphs. See Fig 36 and Table 1 on page 11.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC





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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Island & CB in 9.0 quakes

[KG7FYI]

The models DOGAMI (Oregon Dept. of Geology and Mining) has released 
shows a 71 foot tsunami if the quake is 9+. I'm glad I am out of the 
coast range and in the Cascades.

73
Stan
KG7FYI
  -.-  --.  --...  ..-.  -.--  .. ><º>


On 04/30/2017 05:35 PM, kev...@coho.net [via Elecraft] wrote:
> More likely is Elecraft Island will be all that remains of California.
> Oregon will have a brand new coast too; maybe all the way into Salem :)
>
>   Kevin.  KD5ONS 





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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB in 9.0 quakes

[KG7FYI]

We're at 160% or normal precipitation this year in the Cascades. The 
ground everywhere is Jello. That said, the models are saying our area 
will be to the equivalent to 7.0+ if the subduction zones goes off as 
predicted.
Winter before last there were several million board feet of large 
Douglas Fur that blocked all of the roads for days as a result of a snow 
storm.
You nailed it regarding the bridges. We have steep canyons, granitic and 
serpentine geological conditions and too many bridges. I'd like to say 
that radio is a hobby but the fact is that my only motive was that lives 
are at stake.  I'm learning.

73
Stan
KG7FYI
  -.-  --.  --...  ..-.  -.--  .. ><º>


On 04/30/2017 03:28 PM, kev...@coho.net [via Elecraft] wrote:
> When we get that 9.0 quake many of my local roads will go away. The
> gravel logging roads carved into the side of the mountain will
> collapse.  They regularly do so during our torrential rain season.  A
> quake will just make it worse.  Plus the number of trees I'll have to
> cut between here and my mailbox will take at least a 5 gallon container
> of fuel.  Luckily the CB radios will still work so I can get the local
> loggers to carve me out.
>
> However, at that point I'll have to worry about all the bridges between
> here and there.  Only the smallest ones will have a chance of remaining
> passable.  I have charged deep cycle marine batteries and reels of spare
> antenna wire.  As long as I have a roof over my head I'll be able to
> communicate.  Even then I do have a tent to live in until civilization
> rights itself again.  The local grouse, rabbit, and deer population may
> take a hit though :)
>
>  GL in the big one,
>
>   Kevin.  KD5ONS





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[Elecraft] Carol Dauer, SK

[Dauer, Edward]

 This post is as O.T. as any could possibly be, and selfish to boot; but 
sending it is of some importance to me.  Last week my wife of more than 50 
years passed away, after a nearly three-year run battling a very nasty form of 
cancer.  She died, in hospice, comfortable and at peace.

I write this because I am trying to fill a vast hole in my life, doing 
busy-work and settling affairs and, more to the point, corresponding with 
friends and family.  Over the years I have come to regard many of the 
participants in this reflector as friends, even though I have met in person 
only three or four.

I expect no replies. And if there are any I ask that they be off-line.  

Thanks for tolerating this personal and maudlin use of the bandwidth.  It is 
hard to say why it mattered, but I felt the need to express my loss.

Thanks,

Ted, KN1CBR


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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB

[KG7FYI]

I agree Kevin. The one advantage here in rural Oregon is that there's a 
modicum of adaptability in peoples lives that helps them get buy. We are 
out of power, phone and satellite internet frequently in the winter. It 
sounds very much like your situation in "Coho" country.

BTW, I've spent the better part of the last 12 years doing coho habitat 
restoration projects here in the boonies. Our run this year was down to 
three adults coming back in our watershed.

Thanks for the feedback.

73
Stan
KG7FYI
  -.-  --.  --...  ..-.  -.--  .. ><º>


On 04/30/2017 05:41 PM, kev...@coho.net [via Elecraft] wrote:
> One item which rarely makes it onto the ECOM check lists is fitness.
> How many folks are prepared to actually do all the work necessary after
> a major disaster.  The majority of folks would not be able to walk to
> the nearest shelter let alone help others.  We, as a nation, are
> woefully under-prepared for disasters.  The ECOM folks talk about it,
> plan for it, but don't train the public to be in better shape to handle
> any given disaster.  While I have taught many ECOM classes I am never
> allowed to say more than a few words about fitness.  I do it for rehab
> but it has helped me stay safe in the various unsafe times I have had up
> here in the wilderness.
>
>  73 & GL,
>
>  Kevin.  KD5ONS





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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB

[Phil Kane]

On 4/30/2017 1:22 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:

> I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes. Being able
> to work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute for any emergency plan.

Radio Station KGO(AM)  in San Francisco has its transmitting plant
(directional array with three self-supporting towers) not too far off
the San Andreas Fault that shook in the 1989 Loma Prieta Earthquake.
The top section of one of the towers folded down upon itself - and those
were big strong towers.  The entire array was rebuilt.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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[Elecraft] OT: Affordability of the *NEW* K-Line

[Phil Hystad]

As an owner of an older K-line configuration:   K3+P3+KPA500+KAT500, I am 
wondering what I might be paying if I discovered Elecraft today and wanted the 
new version of a K-Line:  K3S + P3 + KPA1500.  Without doing a detailed cost 
sheet of various options, I will just assume $10,000 for the configuration 
though it could be more than that.

Is this affordable?  To help answer my question, I did some research using both 
my ARRL book “50 Years Of Amateur Radio” and the US government’s inflation 
index calculator.  If you are not aware of this particular book, it describes a 
whole slew of different manufactured rigs from the 1930s through the 1980s with 
year of introduction and cost in US$ at introduction.

Some examples:

Collins KW-1 Transmitter, 1950, original cost: $3850, cost in 2017 dollars: 
$39,942

Hallicrafters SX-88 Receiver, 1954, original cost: $595, cost in 2017 dollars: 
$5393

Heathkit DX-100 Transmitter, 1955, original cost: $180, cost in 2017 dollars: 
$1644

Collins 30S-1 Linear Amplifier (1 KW), 1958, original cost: $1556, cost in 2017 
dollars: $13,264

Collins KWS-1, 1955, original cost $1995, cost in 2017 dollars: $18,217

Collins KWM-2A Transceiver, 1961, original cost $1250, cost in 2017 dollars: 
$10,227

Drake TR-7 Transceiver, 1979, original cost (with some options) $1072, cost in 
2017 dollars: $3827.


So, a new technology K-Line is not that bad as something equivalent from 
Collins back in the 1950s
could easily cost 4 times as much today!

73, phil, K7PEH

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 P3 and KAT500

[KG7FYI]

Thanks Clay. I'm willing to eat humble pie any time it is appropriate. 
No problem there. Being called lazy when I know otherwise is not one of 
those times. I do better getting help from people that are polite and 
trying to understand where I am coming from. That isn't what's happening 
here. How did you expect me to respond. I am willing to learn.

73
Stan
KG7FYI
  -.-  --.  --...  ..-.  -.--  .. ><º>


On 04/30/2017 02:56 PM, Clay Autery [via Elecraft] wrote:
> Clay Autery, KY5G 





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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB

[KG7FYI]

Yep, most excellent attribute. Our club does annual field trips just for 
that purpose. To be honest I was shocked what a long wire could do with 
the right equipment. I'll the first to admit I'm just getting my legs. 
That said, radio is a fantastic tool for my needs. I've never done it as 
a hobby and always have had it as a community help tool or basic 
communication tool. I lived off the grid up in Montana for a decade and 
found radio a great way to keep sane. I had an old Kenwood TS-140s back 
then and spent a lot of time listening. I didn't have a license so never 
TX but I would have if I had to. I'm not an anarchist and totally 
respect the rules but life and limb take precedent over the rules in my 
world. I'm not even tempted to do anything but get stick to the plan. 
Maybe its my old Vietnam days but every option should be available. My 
mind set is such that I'm putting guy wires up on my free standing 
antenna. It can't hurt can it? Thanks for making contact Bill.

73
Stan
KG7FYI
  -.-  --.  --...  ..-.  -.--  .. ><º>



On 04/30/2017 01:23 PM, Bill Frantz [via Elecraft] wrote:
> I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes.
> Being able to work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute
> for any emergency plan. 





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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB

[kev...@coho.net]

One item which rarely makes it onto the ECOM check lists is fitness.  
How many folks are prepared to actually do all the work necessary after 
a major disaster.  The majority of folks would not be able to walk to 
the nearest shelter let alone help others.  We, as a nation, are 
woefully under-prepared for disasters.  The ECOM folks talk about it, 
plan for it, but don't train the public to be in better shape to handle 
any given disaster.  While I have taught many ECOM classes I am never 
allowed to say more than a few words about fitness.  I do it for rehab 
but it has helped me stay safe in the various unsafe times I have had up 
here in the wilderness.


73 & GL,

Kevin.  KD5ONS


On 4/30/2017 5:05 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
The 1964 Alaska earthquake was a 9.2 centered SSE of Anchorage.  I was 
at Galena AFS at the time, on the Yukon River in the northern interior 
just south of the Arctic Circle. It's fairly flat up there and after 
we realized there was an earthquake, we could watch to the south and 
it appeared that there were ground waves moving rapidly toward us.  It 
ultimately broke off the wooden flag pole in front of the chow hall.


The WW2-era wooden hanger and control tower survived just fine, some 
bookcases toppled and spilled coffee was about all that happened.  The 
reinforced concrete alert hangars ... not so well. Much of the damage 
in Anchorage was the result of liquification of the ancient stream bed 
beneath it.


The effects of any given magnitude earthquake are almost completely 
determined by the conditions at any given place.  We had a couple of 
not-high dipoles and one of those humongous LP arrays for the MARS 
station.  ACS went down, our dipoles worked just fine.  That LP 
monster is basically a poorly optimized 3 element yagi on any given 
frequency and didn't work all that well.


Were I in the EMCOMM business and planning for a major widespread 
disaster situation, I'd focus on the physical aspects of the antennas 
... transportability, survivability, ease of deployment, weight, and 
the like.  The rest will be what it will be, and it will likely be 
enough ... at least until better can be arranged.


73,

Fred ("Skip") K6DGW
Sparks NV USA
Washoe County DM09dn

On 4/30/2017 4:15 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
Right, an NVIS antenna is effectively a Yagi pointed at the sky. So 
put a reflector on the dirt.


The Loma Prieta was a 6.9. The Cascadia area could produce a 9.0. 
Richter is a log10 scale, so that is 100X as strong.


wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)



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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Island & CB in 9.0 quakes

[kev...@coho.net]

More likely is Elecraft Island will be all that remains of California.  
Oregon will have a brand new coast too; maybe all the way into Salem :)


 Kevin.  KD5ONS


On 4/30/2017 4:56 PM, Peter LaBissoniere wrote:

I better order a K3S quick as Elecraft will be toast.

Peter LaBissoniere
k...@wi.rr.com




On Apr 30, 2017, at 5:36 PM, Walter Underwood  wrote:

I was at work during the Loma Prieta earthquake. Our HP building (now a Tesla 
building) on Deer Creek Road had hydrogen piping and “HF Waste” piping. That 
was fine, but a 4” main in the sprinkler system broke, soaking lab notebooks. I 
remember planning a route home to Mountain View that did not go under or over 
any bridges. I still had to deal with a water main break.

And then there was Hurricane Betsy when I was growing up in Baton Rouge. No 
phone for 7 days and no power for 10 days. The toppled red oak in the back yard 
was the best tree fort ever.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)


On Apr 30, 2017, at 3:26 PM, kev...@coho.net wrote:

When we get that 9.0 quake many of my local roads will go away. The gravel 
logging roads carved into the side of the mountain will collapse.  They 
regularly do so during our torrential rain season.  A quake will just make it 
worse.  Plus the number of trees I'll have to cut between here and my mailbox 
will take at least a 5 gallon container of fuel.  Luckily the CB radios will 
still work so I can get the local loggers to carve me out.

However, at that point I'll have to worry about all the bridges between here 
and there.  Only the smallest ones will have a chance of remaining passable.  I 
have charged deep cycle marine batteries and reels of spare antenna wire.  As 
long as I have a roof over my head I'll be able to communicate.  Even then I do 
have a tent to live in until civilization rights itself again.  The local 
grouse, rabbit, and deer population may take a hit though :)

   GL in the big one,

Kevin.  KD5ONS

On 4/30/2017 2:43 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

The potential Cascadia earthquake could be 9.0. That means that every tower 
will fall, maybe even those built like this CHP/CalOES tower.

http://www.oesnews.com/going-towering-heights-keep-emergency-communications-flowing/ 


That is why I suggested easily erected wire antennas and small beams, like a 
10m Moxon. After the big one, it will be Field Day, not “flip the switch on the 
linear”.

Regular practice with field antennas will be more useful preparation than a big 
antenna farm. Maybe some regular exercises with a Par EndFedZ antenna, or even 
SOTA activations.

http://www.lnrprecision.com/endfedz/ 

More info on the potential Cascadia earthquake.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one 


wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)


On Apr 30, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Bill Frantz  wrote:

I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes. Being able to 
work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute for any emergency plan.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 4/30/17 at 11:34 AM, kev...@coho.net wrote:


Please try NVIS on 40 or 80 meters.  You'll find you can cover most of the 
state with its use.  Plus the antennas can be ad hoc - tossed into trees or 
even an old fence line.

---
Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, CA 95032

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Re: [Elecraft] Audio on K3

[Ian]

I find that sometimes I, or RF from my wifi keyboard/mouse,
accidentally enables RIT. Have you checked that RIT is not enabled?

73 de,

Ian, KM4IK

On Sun, 2017-04-30 at 22:32 +, louis a. ives wrote:
> I powered up my K3 and discovered that the audio was very
> distorted.  It sounds as if everyone is off frequency and no amount
> of tuning will clear it up. I was using 20 meter SB and it is the
> same on all other frequencies except 2 meter.  I checked all settings
> that I use and nothing has changed. I had no problem the night before
> and problem was found on powering up the radio today. I also use KPA-
> 500 and KTA-500 with this setup.  I also checked and it is the same
> on both receivers. This unit was sent to Elecraft to be checked over
> and aligned about 3 months ago and has been working great. This radio
> has had all updates installed.  Anybody have information on where to
> start looking for problem would greatly appreciated.
> Thanks in advance
> Buddy, KJ4ZSI
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Elecraft] Audio on K3

[Ted Bryant]

A Long shot - -

Is the radio on "LSB" or "USB"?  If you're listening on 20m it should be in
the USB mode.  Is it?

Ted W4NZ


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of louis
a. ives
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 6:32 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Audio on K3

I powered up my K3 and discovered that the audio was very distorted.  It
sounds as if everyone is off frequency and no amount of tuning will clear it
up. I was using 20 meter SB and it is the same on all other frequencies
except 2 meter.  I checked all settings that I use and nothing has changed.
I had no problem the night before and problem was found on powering up the
radio today. I also use KPA-500 and KTA-500 with this setup.  I also checked
and it is the same on both receivers. This unit was sent to Elecraft to be
checked over and aligned about 3 months ago and has been working great. This
radio has had all updates installed.  Anybody have information on where to
start looking for problem would greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Buddy, KJ4ZSI



Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB

[Fred Jensen]

The 1964 Alaska earthquake was a 9.2 centered SSE of Anchorage.  I was 
at Galena AFS at the time, on the Yukon River in the northern interior 
just south of the Arctic Circle. It's fairly flat up there and after we 
realized there was an earthquake, we could watch to the south and it 
appeared that there were ground waves moving rapidly toward us.  It 
ultimately broke off the wooden flag pole in front of the chow hall.


The WW2-era wooden hanger and control tower survived just fine, some 
bookcases toppled and spilled coffee was about all that happened.  The 
reinforced concrete alert hangars ... not so well. Much of the damage in 
Anchorage was the result of liquification of the ancient stream bed 
beneath it.


The effects of any given magnitude earthquake are almost completely 
determined by the conditions at any given place.  We had a couple of 
not-high dipoles and one of those humongous LP arrays for the MARS 
station.  ACS went down, our dipoles worked just fine.  That LP monster 
is basically a poorly optimized 3 element yagi on any given frequency 
and didn't work all that well.


Were I in the EMCOMM business and planning for a major widespread 
disaster situation, I'd focus on the physical aspects of the antennas 
... transportability, survivability, ease of deployment, weight, and the 
like.  The rest will be what it will be, and it will likely be enough 
... at least until better can be arranged.


73,

Fred ("Skip") K6DGW
Sparks NV USA
Washoe County DM09dn

On 4/30/2017 4:15 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

Right, an NVIS antenna is effectively a Yagi pointed at the sky. So put a 
reflector on the dirt.

The Loma Prieta was a 6.9. The Cascadia area could produce a 9.0. Richter is a 
log10 scale, so that is 100X as strong.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)



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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB in 9.0 quakes

[Peter LaBissoniere]

I better order a K3S quick as Elecraft will be toast.

Peter LaBissoniere
k...@wi.rr.com



> On Apr 30, 2017, at 5:36 PM, Walter Underwood  wrote:
> 
> I was at work during the Loma Prieta earthquake. Our HP building (now a Tesla 
> building) on Deer Creek Road had hydrogen piping and “HF Waste” piping. That 
> was fine, but a 4” main in the sprinkler system broke, soaking lab notebooks. 
> I remember planning a route home to Mountain View that did not go under or 
> over any bridges. I still had to deal with a water main break.
> 
> And then there was Hurricane Betsy when I was growing up in Baton Rouge. No 
> phone for 7 days and no power for 10 days. The toppled red oak in the back 
> yard was the best tree fort ever.
> 
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
> 
>> On Apr 30, 2017, at 3:26 PM, kev...@coho.net wrote:
>> 
>> When we get that 9.0 quake many of my local roads will go away. The gravel 
>> logging roads carved into the side of the mountain will collapse.  They 
>> regularly do so during our torrential rain season.  A quake will just make 
>> it worse.  Plus the number of trees I'll have to cut between here and my 
>> mailbox will take at least a 5 gallon container of fuel.  Luckily the CB 
>> radios will still work so I can get the local loggers to carve me out.
>> 
>> However, at that point I'll have to worry about all the bridges between here 
>> and there.  Only the smallest ones will have a chance of remaining passable. 
>>  I have charged deep cycle marine batteries and reels of spare antenna wire. 
>>  As long as I have a roof over my head I'll be able to communicate.  Even 
>> then I do have a tent to live in until civilization rights itself again.  
>> The local grouse, rabbit, and deer population may take a hit though :)
>> 
>>   GL in the big one,
>> 
>>Kevin.  KD5ONS
>> 
>> On 4/30/2017 2:43 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
>>> The potential Cascadia earthquake could be 9.0. That means that every tower 
>>> will fall, maybe even those built like this CHP/CalOES tower.
>>> 
>>> http://www.oesnews.com/going-towering-heights-keep-emergency-communications-flowing/
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> That is why I suggested easily erected wire antennas and small beams, like 
>>> a 10m Moxon. After the big one, it will be Field Day, not “flip the switch 
>>> on the linear”.
>>> 
>>> Regular practice with field antennas will be more useful preparation than a 
>>> big antenna farm. Maybe some regular exercises with a Par EndFedZ antenna, 
>>> or even SOTA activations.
>>> 
>>> http://www.lnrprecision.com/endfedz/ 
>>> 
>>> More info on the potential Cascadia earthquake.
>>> 
>>> http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> wunder
>>> K6WRU
>>> Walter Underwood
>>> CM87wj
>>> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>>> 
 On Apr 30, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Bill Frantz  wrote:
 
 I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes. Being able 
 to work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute for any emergency plan.
 
 73 Bill AE6JV
 
 On 4/30/17 at 11:34 AM, kev...@coho.net wrote:
 
> Please try NVIS on 40 or 80 meters.  You'll find you can cover most of 
> the state with its use.  Plus the antennas can be ad hoc - tossed into 
> trees or even an old fence line.
 ---
 Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed  | Periwinkle
 (408)356-8506  | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 Englewood Ave
 www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, CA 95032
 
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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB

[Fred Jensen]

FWIW:  When we moved here in 2015, I joined the W7RN crew and began to 
use the station remotely.  Very high Coefficient of Aerial Aluminum on 7 
or so towers, very low noise levels.  I had been checking into the 
NorCal traffic net on 80 and wanted to continue.  The main 80 meter 
antenna at W7RN is a near-full-size 3-el yagi at about 160 ft [~48 m].  
It fires flames at Mongolia very nicely, however the NorCal stations at 
80-150 mi [130-240 km] from me were around S5-S7.


Here at home, we are members of an HOA, everyone can fill in the blanks 
from that.  Just for grins, I installed an end-fed wire I got on-line on 
the wood fence.  It runs on electric fence insulators and is about 6 ft 
[1.8 m] high, with a 90 deg bend about 1/3 of the way down.  CA stations 
on 80 are 10 to 20 dB over S9 on it.  I have discovered that it actually 
works way better than I expected for NA contacts, and hits KH6 pretty 
well on 20. I make a lot of Q's with it in the Wednesday CWOps Tests 
when I manage to get on.  I won't make Honor Roll with it, but it is 
very surprising at 100 W from my K3.  I bought another and will use it 
into a tree from Pershing County NV in the 7QP next weekend.


Our fan dipoles in SE Asia were 20-30 ft high at most and worked just 
fine, even to the Philippines.  For emergency uses, I'd worry less about 
the mathematics of antenna radiation and attempting to precisely 
optimize it, and much more about ease of installation and survivability.


If it isn't buried and you can cram power into it [and Elecraft ATU's 
are very good at that], it will radiate.


73,

Fred ("Skip") K6DGW
Sparks NV USA
Washoe County DM09dn

On 4/30/2017 3:49 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

Ground losses mount rapidly as a horizontal antenna is lowered closer to the
earth. So, while the pattern may show the main lobe straight up, the amount
of RF lost in the earth below increases.

EZNEC confirmed to me that about 0.2 wavelengths up is the optimum height
for the strongest vertical lobe (NVIS pattern). That fits with the fact that
0.2 wavelength spacing between the driven element and reflector of a Yagi
produces the maximum gain. Running a wire near the ground helps too, since
the earth is, at best, a poor dielectric instead of an efficient reflector.

Well supported towers have withstood some serious quakes, including our
land-mobile repeater towers in the Loma Prieta earthquake that broke the
S.F. Bay bridge and knocked down a good part of downtown Santa Cruz back in
the 80's.



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Re: [Elecraft] Audio on K3

[GWK]

I have sometimes had similar problems.  Usually resolved by reloading 
the latest configuration file - you did save one?


George, W3HBM


On 4/30/2017 6:32 PM, louis a. ives wrote:

I powered up my K3 and discovered that the audio was very distorted.  It sounds 
as if everyone is off frequency and no amount of tuning will clear it up. I was 
using 20 meter SB and it is the same on all other frequencies except 2 meter.  
I checked all settings that I use and nothing has changed. I had no problem the 
night before and problem was found on powering up the radio today. I also use 
KPA-500 and KTA-500 with this setup.  I also checked and it is the same on both 
receivers. This unit was sent to Elecraft to be checked over and aligned about 
3 months ago and has been working great. This radio has had all updates 
installed.  Anybody have information on where to start looking for problem 
would greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Buddy, KJ4ZSI



Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB

[Walter Underwood]

Right, an NVIS antenna is effectively a Yagi pointed at the sky. So put a 
reflector on the dirt.

The Loma Prieta was a 6.9. The Cascadia area could produce a 9.0. Richter is a 
log10 scale, so that is 100X as strong. 

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Apr 30, 2017, at 3:49 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire  wrote:
> 
> Ground losses mount rapidly as a horizontal antenna is lowered closer to the
> earth. So, while the pattern may show the main lobe straight up, the amount
> of RF lost in the earth below increases. 
> 
> EZNEC confirmed to me that about 0.2 wavelengths up is the optimum height
> for the strongest vertical lobe (NVIS pattern). That fits with the fact that
> 0.2 wavelength spacing between the driven element and reflector of a Yagi
> produces the maximum gain. Running a wire near the ground helps too, since
> the earth is, at best, a poor dielectric instead of an efficient reflector. 
> 
> Well supported towers have withstood some serious quakes, including our
> land-mobile repeater towers in the Loma Prieta earthquake that broke the
> S.F. Bay bridge and knocked down a good part of downtown Santa Cruz back in
> the 80's. 
> 
> However a tower, no matter how robust, is of little use if operations need
> to move elsewhere. They are darn clumsy to move by hand in an emergency. 
> 
> 73, Ron AC7AC
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
> kev...@coho.net
> Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 1:40 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB
> 
> I lose my antennas about once each year to straight line winds. Flying
> branches knock them down.  But if the wires are still intact I can run the
> nets with the lowered antennas.  Using less than optimal antennas works;
> just not as well as perfect antennas.  In an emergency I really don't care
> about perfect performance, I simply want to contact someone for assistance.
> By all means put up the best antenna you can just remember any antenna can
> make contacts.
> 
> Years ago I wrote some software to display antenna propagation patterns as a
> half wave dipole was lowered from 1 wavelength above ground until it was on
> the ground.  The results were pretty interesting.  By using the program I
> found many heights would work well depending on where I wanted to contact.
> At less than 1/10 wavelength above the ground the radiation patterns got
> rather odd but still worked for in-state comms.  
> Once I had modeled what was going to happen I tested it by dropping my
> antennas to different heights and tested comms.  Theory and practice
> correlated quite nicely.
> 
> Kevin.  KD5ONS
> 
> P. S. The application also modeled 1/4 wave verticals and loop antennas.  I
> never found the time to model the Yagi-Uda, the math got too hairy.  Using
> Euler's equation a few times got me through the three antenna types I was
> able to model.  Beating on the Bessel functions would have taken longer than
> the time I had allotted to me.
> 
>  K.
> 
> 
> On 4/30/2017 1:22 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
>> I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes. Being 
>> able to work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute for any 
>> emergency plan.
>> 
>> 73 Bill AE6JV
>> 
>> On 4/30/17 at 11:34 AM, kev...@coho.net wrote:
>> 
>>> Please try NVIS on 40 or 80 meters. You'll find you can cover most of 
>>> the state with its use.  Plus the antennas can be ad hoc - tossed 
>>> into trees or even an old fence line.
>> ---
>> Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed  | Periwinkle
>> (408)356-8506  | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 Englewood Ave
>> www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, CA 95032
>> 
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
>> kev...@coho.net
>> 
> 
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> Please help support this email list: 

Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Ground losses mount rapidly as a horizontal antenna is lowered closer to the
earth. So, while the pattern may show the main lobe straight up, the amount
of RF lost in the earth below increases. 

EZNEC confirmed to me that about 0.2 wavelengths up is the optimum height
for the strongest vertical lobe (NVIS pattern). That fits with the fact that
0.2 wavelength spacing between the driven element and reflector of a Yagi
produces the maximum gain. Running a wire near the ground helps too, since
the earth is, at best, a poor dielectric instead of an efficient reflector. 

Well supported towers have withstood some serious quakes, including our
land-mobile repeater towers in the Loma Prieta earthquake that broke the
S.F. Bay bridge and knocked down a good part of downtown Santa Cruz back in
the 80's. 

However a tower, no matter how robust, is of little use if operations need
to move elsewhere. They are darn clumsy to move by hand in an emergency. 

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
kev...@coho.net
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 1:40 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB

I lose my antennas about once each year to straight line winds. Flying
branches knock them down.  But if the wires are still intact I can run the
nets with the lowered antennas.  Using less than optimal antennas works;
just not as well as perfect antennas.  In an emergency I really don't care
about perfect performance, I simply want to contact someone for assistance.
By all means put up the best antenna you can just remember any antenna can
make contacts.

Years ago I wrote some software to display antenna propagation patterns as a
half wave dipole was lowered from 1 wavelength above ground until it was on
the ground.  The results were pretty interesting.  By using the program I
found many heights would work well depending on where I wanted to contact.
At less than 1/10 wavelength above the ground the radiation patterns got
rather odd but still worked for in-state comms.  
Once I had modeled what was going to happen I tested it by dropping my
antennas to different heights and tested comms.  Theory and practice
correlated quite nicely.

 Kevin.  KD5ONS

P. S. The application also modeled 1/4 wave verticals and loop antennas.  I
never found the time to model the Yagi-Uda, the math got too hairy.  Using
Euler's equation a few times got me through the three antenna types I was
able to model.  Beating on the Bessel functions would have taken longer than
the time I had allotted to me.

  K.


On 4/30/2017 1:22 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
> I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes. Being 
> able to work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute for any 
> emergency plan.
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
> On 4/30/17 at 11:34 AM, kev...@coho.net wrote:
>
>> Please try NVIS on 40 or 80 meters. You'll find you can cover most of 
>> the state with its use.  Plus the antennas can be ad hoc - tossed 
>> into trees or even an old fence line.
> ---
> Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed  | Periwinkle
> (408)356-8506  | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 Englewood Ave
> www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, CA 95032
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> kev...@coho.net
>

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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB in 9.0 quakes

[Walter Underwood]

I was at work during the Loma Prieta earthquake. Our HP building (now a Tesla 
building) on Deer Creek Road had hydrogen piping and “HF Waste” piping. That 
was fine, but a 4” main in the sprinkler system broke, soaking lab notebooks. I 
remember planning a route home to Mountain View that did not go under or over 
any bridges. I still had to deal with a water main break.

And then there was Hurricane Betsy when I was growing up in Baton Rouge. No 
phone for 7 days and no power for 10 days. The toppled red oak in the back yard 
was the best tree fort ever.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Apr 30, 2017, at 3:26 PM, kev...@coho.net wrote:
> 
> When we get that 9.0 quake many of my local roads will go away. The gravel 
> logging roads carved into the side of the mountain will collapse.  They 
> regularly do so during our torrential rain season.  A quake will just make it 
> worse.  Plus the number of trees I'll have to cut between here and my mailbox 
> will take at least a 5 gallon container of fuel.  Luckily the CB radios will 
> still work so I can get the local loggers to carve me out.
> 
> However, at that point I'll have to worry about all the bridges between here 
> and there.  Only the smallest ones will have a chance of remaining passable.  
> I have charged deep cycle marine batteries and reels of spare antenna wire.  
> As long as I have a roof over my head I'll be able to communicate.  Even then 
> I do have a tent to live in until civilization rights itself again.  The 
> local grouse, rabbit, and deer population may take a hit though :)
> 
>GL in the big one,
> 
> Kevin.  KD5ONS
> 
> On 4/30/2017 2:43 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
>> The potential Cascadia earthquake could be 9.0. That means that every tower 
>> will fall, maybe even those built like this CHP/CalOES tower.
>> 
>> http://www.oesnews.com/going-towering-heights-keep-emergency-communications-flowing/
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> That is why I suggested easily erected wire antennas and small beams, like a 
>> 10m Moxon. After the big one, it will be Field Day, not “flip the switch on 
>> the linear”.
>> 
>> Regular practice with field antennas will be more useful preparation than a 
>> big antenna farm. Maybe some regular exercises with a Par EndFedZ antenna, 
>> or even SOTA activations.
>> 
>> http://www.lnrprecision.com/endfedz/ 
>> 
>> More info on the potential Cascadia earthquake.
>> 
>> http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one 
>> 
>> 
>> wunder
>> K6WRU
>> Walter Underwood
>> CM87wj
>> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>> 
>>> On Apr 30, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Bill Frantz  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes. Being able to 
>>> work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute for any emergency plan.
>>> 
>>> 73 Bill AE6JV
>>> 
>>> On 4/30/17 at 11:34 AM, kev...@coho.net wrote:
>>> 
 Please try NVIS on 40 or 80 meters.  You'll find you can cover most of the 
 state with its use.  Plus the antennas can be ad hoc - tossed into trees 
 or even an old fence line.
>>> ---
>>> Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed  | Periwinkle
>>> (408)356-8506  | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 Englewood Ave
>>> www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, CA 95032
>>> 
>>> __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
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>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org
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[Elecraft] Audio on K3

[louis a. ives]

I powered up my K3 and discovered that the audio was very distorted.  It sounds 
as if everyone is off frequency and no amount of tuning will clear it up. I was 
using 20 meter SB and it is the same on all other frequencies except 2 meter.  
I checked all settings that I use and nothing has changed. I had no problem the 
night before and problem was found on powering up the radio today. I also use 
KPA-500 and KTA-500 with this setup.  I also checked and it is the same on both 
receivers. This unit was sent to Elecraft to be checked over and aligned about 
3 months ago and has been working great. This radio has had all updates 
installed.  Anybody have information on where to start looking for problem 
would greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Buddy, KJ4ZSI



Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB in 9.0 quakes

[kev...@coho.net]

When we get that 9.0 quake many of my local roads will go away. The 
gravel logging roads carved into the side of the mountain will 
collapse.  They regularly do so during our torrential rain season.  A 
quake will just make it worse.  Plus the number of trees I'll have to 
cut between here and my mailbox will take at least a 5 gallon container 
of fuel.  Luckily the CB radios will still work so I can get the local 
loggers to carve me out.


However, at that point I'll have to worry about all the bridges between 
here and there.  Only the smallest ones will have a chance of remaining 
passable.  I have charged deep cycle marine batteries and reels of spare 
antenna wire.  As long as I have a roof over my head I'll be able to 
communicate.  Even then I do have a tent to live in until civilization 
rights itself again.  The local grouse, rabbit, and deer population may 
take a hit though :)


GL in the big one,

 Kevin.  KD5ONS

On 4/30/2017 2:43 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

The potential Cascadia earthquake could be 9.0. That means that every tower 
will fall, maybe even those built like this CHP/CalOES tower.

http://www.oesnews.com/going-towering-heights-keep-emergency-communications-flowing/ 


That is why I suggested easily erected wire antennas and small beams, like a 
10m Moxon. After the big one, it will be Field Day, not “flip the switch on the 
linear”.

Regular practice with field antennas will be more useful preparation than a big 
antenna farm. Maybe some regular exercises with a Par EndFedZ antenna, or even 
SOTA activations.

http://www.lnrprecision.com/endfedz/ 

More info on the potential Cascadia earthquake.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one 


wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)


On Apr 30, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Bill Frantz  wrote:

I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes. Being able to 
work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute for any emergency plan.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 4/30/17 at 11:34 AM, kev...@coho.net wrote:


Please try NVIS on 40 or 80 meters.  You'll find you can cover most of the 
state with its use.  Plus the antennas can be ad hoc - tossed into trees or 
even an old fence line.

---
Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, CA 95032

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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB

[Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft]

Clay,

Do have a horse in this race? I believe Mr. Brown can defend himself. I agree 
with other gentleman that Jim can be very offensive in his responses sometimes. 
That has been well documented in this forum and others. It's against the spirit 
of ham radio and you are sanctioning that type of conduct with your response.

73,
Robert-W4/KP4Y

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 30, 2017, at 5:43 PM, Walter Underwood  wrote:
> 
> The potential Cascadia earthquake could be 9.0. That means that every tower 
> will fall, maybe even those built like this CHP/CalOES tower.
> 
> http://www.oesnews.com/going-towering-heights-keep-emergency-communications-flowing/
>  
> 
> 
> That is why I suggested easily erected wire antennas and small beams, like a 
> 10m Moxon. After the big one, it will be Field Day, not “flip the switch on 
> the linear”.
> 
> Regular practice with field antennas will be more useful preparation than a 
> big antenna farm. Maybe some regular exercises with a Par EndFedZ antenna, or 
> even SOTA activations.
> 
> http://www.lnrprecision.com/endfedz/ 
> 
> More info on the potential Cascadia earthquake.
> 
> http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one 
> 
> 
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
> 
>> On Apr 30, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Bill Frantz  wrote:
>> 
>> I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes. Being able to 
>> work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute for any emergency plan.
>> 
>> 73 Bill AE6JV
>> 
>>> On 4/30/17 at 11:34 AM, kev...@coho.net wrote:
>>> 
>>> Please try NVIS on 40 or 80 meters.  You'll find you can cover most of the 
>>> state with its use.  Plus the antennas can be ad hoc - tossed into trees or 
>>> even an old fence line.
>> ---
>> Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed  | Periwinkle
>> (408)356-8506  | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 Englewood Ave
>> www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, CA 95032
>> 
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 P3 and KAT500

[Clay Autery]

Mr  you've made several mistakes in judgement based on what appears
to be false assumptions.  Of course, there are also times where folks
bump heads by sheer accidental reasons...  I'd like to think we have a
case of the second type here...

You've been provided excellent information, and some truthful expression
of how you have "come across" to this group.

Frankly, I remember thinking when I read his response to you:

"He was a lot nicer than I would have been."

I chose not to write a response so as not to appear "cantankerous", but
I can't let this go.

Trust me, Jim has no pride invested in this group... he's simply trying
to help you.
Being a butt-head BACK to him is incredibly disrespectful to a very nice
man and an incredibly knowledgeable resource, and likely not your best
course of action.

Have a good day,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 4/30/2017 3:26 PM, KG7FYI wrote:
> Well Jim, I appreciate your concern but to accuse me of laziness is 
> offensive and uncalled for. I think you are presumptuous to know my 
> circumstance and make a judgment of my character based on a few simple 
> questions posted on a email forum. Your analysis is full of snobbery and 
> ill intent. It's really a turn off  from someone who is trying to learn 
> the radio, its operation and functions. I think your attitude and sense 
> of internet etiquette needs adjustment if you don't mind me saying.
>
> I am choosing to learn this system at my own pace. I've built and 
> configured the system just fine with this one defugalty. So back off.
>
> Stan
>
> KG7FYI
>
>
> On 04/30/2017 12:40 PM, Jim Brown-10 [via Elecraft] wrote:
>> On Sun,4/30/2017 8:04 AM, KG7FYI wrote:
>>> I have the second edition of Fred Cady's book. Point me  in the 
>> right direction and I'll plow through it.
>>
>> While Fred's books provides a lot of good info in easy to read form,
>> there's very little in that that can't be learned simply by studying the
>> Elecraft User Manuals for your product. Note my use of the word
>> "studying." This is necessary whether you're using Elecraft manuals
>> (free) or Fred's (not free).
>>
>> Elecraft K3, K3S, KX2, and KX3 all offer a high degree of customization
>> and many controls to fit the needs of individual users. The Elecraft
>> manuals are pretty good at providing detail of how all those settings
>> and controls work. When set up properly to match individual operating
>> style and needs, it's rare to need to use a menu except to choose very
>> different styles and needs.
>>
>> Taken together, the posts in this thread suggest a mental laziness about
>> STUDYING the reference materials -- FCC Rules, equipment manuals, ARRL
>> Handbook, ARRL Operating Manual, even the ARRL study guides for the
>> license exams (and I mean the fundamental concepts, not just Q). Those
>> of us who know what's going on and how things work have done that. It
>> ain't that we're that much smarter, it's that we've paid our dues by
>> studying.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>> __
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>>
>> 
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>>
>> To unsubscribe from K3 P3 and KAT500, click here 
>> .
>> NAML 
>> 
>>  
>>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Stan KG7FYI
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-P3-and-KAT500-tp7629969p7630134.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Help: 

Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB

[Walter Underwood]

The potential Cascadia earthquake could be 9.0. That means that every tower 
will fall, maybe even those built like this CHP/CalOES tower.

http://www.oesnews.com/going-towering-heights-keep-emergency-communications-flowing/
 


That is why I suggested easily erected wire antennas and small beams, like a 
10m Moxon. After the big one, it will be Field Day, not “flip the switch on the 
linear”.

Regular practice with field antennas will be more useful preparation than a big 
antenna farm. Maybe some regular exercises with a Par EndFedZ antenna, or even 
SOTA activations.

http://www.lnrprecision.com/endfedz/ 

More info on the potential Cascadia earthquake.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one 


wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Apr 30, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Bill Frantz  wrote:
> 
> I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes. Being able to 
> work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute for any emergency plan.
> 
> 73 Bill AE6JV
> 
> On 4/30/17 at 11:34 AM, kev...@coho.net wrote:
> 
>> Please try NVIS on 40 or 80 meters.  You'll find you can cover most of the 
>> state with its use.  Plus the antennas can be ad hoc - tossed into trees or 
>> even an old fence line.
> ---
> Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed  | Periwinkle
> (408)356-8506  | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 Englewood Ave
> www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, CA 95032
> 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB

[Carl Clawson]

True dat. Once I accidentally worked Mexico on a dummy load from here in
the valley below Kevin's mountain in NW Oregon.

73 -- WS7L

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 1:40 PM, kev...@coho.net  wrote:

> ... just remember any antenna can make contacts.
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 P3 and KAT500

[Nr4c]

If not "locked", a K3 will tune continuously from a very low frequency like 100 
KHz up to the top of 6 meters at 54 MHZ. The VFO does not know about BANDS. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Apr 30, 2017, at 2:36 PM, KG7FYI  wrote:
> 
> I believe the below was the problem.
> 
>>> If you were on 24 mhz you were on the 12 meter band. NO you cant dial 
>>> down to 28.4 which is not in the 12 meter band
>>> 
>>> tapping up is not taking you to Ten Meters
>>> for some reason you are in 12 meters still
>>> it has happened to me too
> 
>> On 04/30/2017 10:58 AM, Don Wilhelm [via Elecraft] wrote:
>> Stan,
>> 
>> Can you tune the VFO on other bands?  If not, you likely have the VFO
>> locked - look for the little 'padlock' icon in the upper right corner of
>> the display.  Hold the LOCK button to the right of VFO A knob to toggle
>> LOCK on and off.
>> 
>> What happens when you do a Direct Frequency Enter?  You must place a
>> decimal after the MHz digits and when you have entered 28.4 tap the
>> ENTER button (lower right of the number keypad).
>> 
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>> 
>> On 4/30/2017 11:04 AM, KG7FYI wrote:
>> 
 This is very confusing, Stan.  Are you saying that if you tap BAND 
>> (up),
 you move from 24 to 28.676 MHz and then can't dial VFO A down to 28.4?
>>> Yes, that is exactly what is happening. I can assure you it is not
>>> something I programmed into the system.  I checked the config menu (BND
>>> MAP) and all bands are in. Somehow I may have unintentionally 
>> programmed
>>> an issue into the system. I haven't programmed anything into the system
>>> so resetting the defaults should be no loss if all goes well. The
>>> curiosity is how I got into this mix in the first place. Included in
>>> this email is an image of the front panel that might give a clue.
>>> 
>>> I have the second edition of Fred Cady's book. Point me  in the right
>>> direction and I'll plow through it.
>> __
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>> 
>> To unsubscribe from K3 P3 and KAT500, click here 
>> .
>> NAML 
>> 
>>  
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Stan KG7FYI
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-P3-and-KAT500-tp7629969p7630128.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB

[kev...@coho.net]

I lose my antennas about once each year to straight line winds. Flying 
branches knock them down.  But if the wires are still intact I can run 
the nets with the lowered antennas.  Using less than optimal antennas 
works; just not as well as perfect antennas.  In an emergency I really 
don't care about perfect performance, I simply want to contact someone 
for assistance.  By all means put up the best antenna you can just 
remember any antenna can make contacts.


Years ago I wrote some software to display antenna propagation patterns 
as a half wave dipole was lowered from 1 wavelength above ground until 
it was on the ground.  The results were pretty interesting.  By using 
the program I found many heights would work well depending on where I 
wanted to contact.  At less than 1/10 wavelength above the ground the 
radiation patterns got rather odd but still worked for in-state comms.  
Once I had modeled what was going to happen I tested it by dropping my 
antennas to different heights and tested comms.  Theory and practice 
correlated quite nicely.


Kevin.  KD5ONS

P. S. The application also modeled 1/4 wave verticals and loop 
antennas.  I never found the time to model the Yagi-Uda, the math got 
too hairy.  Using Euler's equation a few times got me through the three 
antenna types I was able to model.  Beating on the Bessel functions 
would have taken longer than the time I had allotted to me.


 K.


On 4/30/2017 1:22 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes. Being 
able to work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute for any 
emergency plan.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 4/30/17 at 11:34 AM, kev...@coho.net wrote:

Please try NVIS on 40 or 80 meters. You'll find you can cover most of 
the state with its use.  Plus the antennas can be ad hoc - tossed 
into trees or even an old fence line.

---
Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, CA 95032

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 P3 and KAT500

[KG7FYI]

Well Jim, I appreciate your concern but to accuse me of laziness is 
offensive and uncalled for. I think you are presumptuous to know my 
circumstance and make a judgment of my character based on a few simple 
questions posted on a email forum. Your analysis is full of snobbery and 
ill intent. It's really a turn off  from someone who is trying to learn 
the radio, its operation and functions. I think your attitude and sense 
of internet etiquette needs adjustment if you don't mind me saying.

I am choosing to learn this system at my own pace. I've built and 
configured the system just fine with this one defugalty. So back off.

Stan

KG7FYI


On 04/30/2017 12:40 PM, Jim Brown-10 [via Elecraft] wrote:
> On Sun,4/30/2017 8:04 AM, KG7FYI wrote:
> > I have the second edition of Fred Cady's book. Point me  in the 
> right direction and I'll plow through it.
>
> While Fred's books provides a lot of good info in easy to read form,
> there's very little in that that can't be learned simply by studying the
> Elecraft User Manuals for your product. Note my use of the word
> "studying." This is necessary whether you're using Elecraft manuals
> (free) or Fred's (not free).
>
> Elecraft K3, K3S, KX2, and KX3 all offer a high degree of customization
> and many controls to fit the needs of individual users. The Elecraft
> manuals are pretty good at providing detail of how all those settings
> and controls work. When set up properly to match individual operating
> style and needs, it's rare to need to use a menu except to choose very
> different styles and needs.
>
> Taken together, the posts in this thread suggest a mental laziness about
> STUDYING the reference materials -- FCC Rules, equipment manuals, ARRL
> Handbook, ARRL Operating Manual, even the ARRL study guides for the
> license exams (and I mean the fundamental concepts, not just Q). Those
> of us who know what's going on and how things work have done that. It
> ain't that we're that much smarter, it's that we've paid our dues by
> studying.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> __
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>
> To unsubscribe from K3 P3 and KAT500, click here 
> .
> NAML 
> 
>  
>





-
Stan KG7FYI
--
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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB

[Bill Frantz]

I have always wondered how towers hold up during earthquakes. 
Being able to work with ad-hoc antennas seems a good attribute 
for any emergency plan.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 4/30/17 at 11:34 AM, kev...@coho.net wrote:

Please try NVIS on 40 or 80 meters.  You'll find you can cover 
most of the state with its use.  Plus the antennas can be ad 
hoc - tossed into trees or even an old fence line.

---
Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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[Elecraft] K3 P3 and KAT500

[john]

The locked VFO has been suggested to KG7FYI numerous times as well as
punching in the frequency directly. Perhaps I missed it in this very long
"no 28.400MHz" thread however I have not seen a response to either of these
possible solutions. 


Don Wilhelm donwilh at embarqmail.com 
Sun Apr 30 13:57:18 EDT 2017
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Stan,

Can you tune the VFO on other bands?  If not, you likely have the VFO 
locked - look for the little 'padlock' icon in the upper right corner of 
the display.  Hold the LOCK button to the right of VFO A knob to toggle 
LOCK on and off.

What happens when you do a Direct Frequency Enter?  You must place a 
decimal after the MHz digits and when you have entered 28.4 tap the 
ENTER button (lower right of the number keypad).

73,
Don W3FPR

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 P3 and KAT500

[Jim Brown]

On Sun,4/30/2017 8:04 AM, KG7FYI wrote:

I have the second edition of Fred Cady's book. Point me  in the right direction 
and I'll plow through it.


While Fred's books provides a lot of good info in easy to read form, 
there's very little in that that can't be learned simply by studying the 
Elecraft User Manuals for your product. Note my use of the word 
"studying." This is necessary whether you're using Elecraft manuals 
(free) or Fred's (not free).


Elecraft K3, K3S, KX2, and KX3 all offer a high degree of customization 
and many controls to fit the needs of individual users. The Elecraft 
manuals are pretty good at providing detail of how all those settings 
and controls work. When set up properly to match individual operating 
style and needs, it's rare to need to use a menu except to choose very 
different styles and needs.


Taken together, the posts in this thread suggest a mental laziness about 
STUDYING the reference materials -- FCC Rules, equipment manuals, ARRL 
Handbook, ARRL Operating Manual, even the ARRL study guides for the 
license exams (and I mean the fundamental concepts, not just Q). Those 
of us who know what's going on and how things work have done that. It 
ain't that we're that much smarter, it's that we've paid our dues by 
studying.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB

[Jim Brown]

On Sun,4/30/2017 11:34 AM, kev...@coho.net wrote:
Plus the antennas can be ad hoc - tossed into trees or even an old 
fence line.


There's a bit of fiction in the belief that antennas must be very low 
for NVIS. Fact is that higher is better, up to a quarter wave. The 
optimum height for a horizontal antenna for NVIS is a quarter wave 
length, and performance declines only slightly (1 dB) up to 3/8 
wavelength. High angle radiation for an antenna a quarter wave high is 
4dB stronger than for one at one-tenth wavelength high. Thus, optimum 
heights are 30 ft for 40M, 60 ft for 80M, and high angle radiation is 
only 1dB down for 45 ft on 40M and 90 ft on 80M.


http://k9yc.com/AntennaPlanning.pdf  addresses this with a table and 
graphs. See Fig 36 and Table 1 on page 11.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 P3 and KAT500

[KG7FYI]

I believe the below was the problem.

>> If you were on 24 mhz you were on the 12 meter band. NO you cant dial 
>> down to 28.4 which is not in the 12 meter band
>>
>> tapping up is not taking you to Ten Meters
>> for some reason you are in 12 meters still
>> it has happened to me too

On 04/30/2017 10:58 AM, Don Wilhelm [via Elecraft] wrote:
> Stan,
>
> Can you tune the VFO on other bands?  If not, you likely have the VFO
> locked - look for the little 'padlock' icon in the upper right corner of
> the display.  Hold the LOCK button to the right of VFO A knob to toggle
> LOCK on and off.
>
> What happens when you do a Direct Frequency Enter?  You must place a
> decimal after the MHz digits and when you have entered 28.4 tap the
> ENTER button (lower right of the number keypad).
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 4/30/2017 11:04 AM, KG7FYI wrote:
>
> >> This is very confusing, Stan.  Are you saying that if you tap BAND 
> (up),
> >> you move from 24 to 28.676 MHz and then can't dial VFO A down to 28.4?
> > Yes, that is exactly what is happening. I can assure you it is not
> > something I programmed into the system.  I checked the config menu (BND
> > MAP) and all bands are in. Somehow I may have unintentionally 
> programmed
> > an issue into the system. I haven't programmed anything into the system
> > so resetting the defaults should be no loss if all goes well. The
> > curiosity is how I got into this mix in the first place. Included in
> > this email is an image of the front panel that might give a clue.
> >
> > I have the second edition of Fred Cady's book. Point me  in the right
> > direction and I'll plow through it.
> __
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>
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> .
> NAML 
> 
>  
>





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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight & CB

[kev...@coho.net]

I live in Oregon's Northern Coast Range.  2 meters has the same problems 
up here as it does in the Southern regions.  Because most of the locals 
have CB radios it is how we communicate in an emergency.  The local 
repeaters are dead other than during net times or drive times.  If you 
really need help CB radio works much better than our amateur bands.  We 
also use it to avoid the many log trucks.


Please try NVIS on 40 or 80 meters.  You'll find you can cover most of 
the state with its use.  Plus the antennas can be ad hoc - tossed into 
trees or even an old fence line.


73 & GL,

Kevin.  KD5ONS


On 4/30/2017 8:30 AM, KG7FYI wrote:

Thanks Bill. Yes it is a very nice area. This is us
http://www.singingfalls.com

Right now the antenna plan is thus. :

Two towers spanning 380 feet. The foundations are poured and towers
staged. Working on refurbishing a used KT34XA to current '36XA specs. I
will have a 2M yagi pointed and our ARES relay tower and a 2M vertical
for general purposes to access other available bands. I will have a 11M
yagi up to communicate with unlicensed locals. Most folks have a cb base
out here. I've got a multiband dipole and a long wire to span the two
towers. ( I named the towers Sauron and Saruman :) )

73
Stan KG7FYI

On 04/30/2017 03:04 AM, Bill W4ZV [via Elecraft] wrote:

Hi Stan,

Responding to excerpts below:

 KG7FYI wrote
 Our very local scenario is filled with mountains and valleys. We
 are the
 land of “One Hundred Valleys”. Actually there are thousands of
 them! 2M
 is very spotty.

 Our ARES group requires go bags for all vehicles. Few people but a
 lot
 of livestock and gardens here.

 My only concern was availability of frequency bandwidth. We have a
 least
 two Extra Class licenses in the community and one MARS certified.
 Unfortunately they are many 15+ miles away deep in a valley.

Sounds like a beautiful area!  You probably know this but NVIS would
be a perfect solution for you.  40 meters would be the easiest NVIS
antenna (very low dipole) to implement.  "Military NVIS communications
mostly take place on 2-4 MHz at night and on 5-7 MHz during daylight."

Here's a link explaining:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_vertical_incidence_skywave

However this would require General Class licenses or higher for voice
modes.

73 and Good Luck!

Bill  W4ZV


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.
NAML







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Re: [Elecraft] K3 P3 and KAT500

[Don Wilhelm]

Stan,

Can you tune the VFO on other bands?  If not, you likely have the VFO 
locked - look for the little 'padlock' icon in the upper right corner of 
the display.  Hold the LOCK button to the right of VFO A knob to toggle 
LOCK on and off.


What happens when you do a Direct Frequency Enter?  You must place a 
decimal after the MHz digits and when you have entered 28.4 tap the 
ENTER button (lower right of the number keypad).


73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/30/2017 11:04 AM, KG7FYI wrote:

This is very confusing, Stan.  Are you saying that if you tap BAND (up),
you move from 24 to 28.676 MHz and then can't dial VFO A down to 28.4?

Yes, that is exactly what is happening. I can assure you it is not
something I programmed into the system.  I checked the config menu (BND
MAP) and all bands are in. Somehow I may have unintentionally programmed
an issue into the system. I haven't programmed anything into the system
so resetting the defaults should be no loss if all goes well. The
curiosity is how I got into this mix in the first place. Included in
this email is an image of the front panel that might give a clue.

I have the second edition of Fred Cady's book. Point me  in the right
direction and I'll plow through it.

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[Elecraft] Y-Box excess to needs

[w4sc]

I have one (1) N6TV Y-Box excess to my needs.  NEW.

$145 shipped USA insured. 

Please me contact off list for payment options.

73 de Ben W4SC.

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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight

[KG7FYI]

P.S. I have my General Class license with my eye on Extra some time in 
the not too distant future.

s


On 04/30/2017 03:04 AM, Bill W4ZV [via Elecraft] wrote:
> Hi Stan,
>
> Responding to excerpts below:
>
> KG7FYI wrote
> Our very local scenario is filled with mountains and valleys. We
> are the
> land of “One Hundred Valleys”. Actually there are thousands of
> them! 2M
> is very spotty.
>
> Our ARES group requires go bags for all vehicles. Few people but a
> lot
> of livestock and gardens here.
>
> My only concern was availability of frequency bandwidth. We have a
> least
> two Extra Class licenses in the community and one MARS certified.
> Unfortunately they are many 15+ miles away deep in a valley.
>
> Sounds like a beautiful area!  You probably know this but NVIS would 
> be a perfect solution for you.  40 meters would be the easiest NVIS 
> antenna (very low dipole) to implement.  "Military NVIS communications 
> mostly take place on 2-4 MHz at night and on 5-7 MHz during daylight."
>
> Here's a link explaining:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_vertical_incidence_skywave
>
> However this would require General Class licenses or higher for voice 
> modes.
>
> 73 and Good Luck!
>
> Bill  W4ZV
>
> 
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the 
> discussion below:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-P3-and-KAT500-tp7629969p7630119.html 
>
> To unsubscribe from K3 P3 and KAT500, click here 
> .
> NAML 
> 
>  
>





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Re: [Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight

[KG7FYI]

Thanks Bill. Yes it is a very nice area. This is us 
http://www.singingfalls.com

Right now the antenna plan is thus. :

Two towers spanning 380 feet. The foundations are poured and towers 
staged. Working on refurbishing a used KT34XA to current '36XA specs. I 
will have a 2M yagi pointed and our ARES relay tower and a 2M vertical 
for general purposes to access other available bands. I will have a 11M 
yagi up to communicate with unlicensed locals. Most folks have a cb base 
out here. I've got a multiband dipole and a long wire to span the two 
towers. ( I named the towers Sauron and Saruman :) )

73
Stan KG7FYI

On 04/30/2017 03:04 AM, Bill W4ZV [via Elecraft] wrote:
> Hi Stan,
>
> Responding to excerpts below:
>
> KG7FYI wrote
> Our very local scenario is filled with mountains and valleys. We
> are the
> land of “One Hundred Valleys”. Actually there are thousands of
> them! 2M
> is very spotty.
>
> Our ARES group requires go bags for all vehicles. Few people but a
> lot
> of livestock and gardens here.
>
> My only concern was availability of frequency bandwidth. We have a
> least
> two Extra Class licenses in the community and one MARS certified.
> Unfortunately they are many 15+ miles away deep in a valley.
>
> Sounds like a beautiful area!  You probably know this but NVIS would 
> be a perfect solution for you.  40 meters would be the easiest NVIS 
> antenna (very low dipole) to implement.  "Military NVIS communications 
> mostly take place on 2-4 MHz at night and on 5-7 MHz during daylight."
>
> Here's a link explaining:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_vertical_incidence_skywave
>
> However this would require General Class licenses or higher for voice 
> modes.
>
> 73 and Good Luck!
>
> Bill  W4ZV
>
> 
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the 
> discussion below:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-P3-and-KAT500-tp7629969p7630119.html 
>
> To unsubscribe from K3 P3 and KAT500, click here 
> .
> NAML 
> 
>  
>





-
Stan KG7FYI
--
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 P3 and KAT500

[KG7FYI]

> This is very confusing, Stan.  Are you saying that if you tap BAND (up),
> you move from 24 to 28.676 MHz and then can't dial VFO A down to 28.4?
Yes, that is exactly what is happening. I can assure you it is not 
something I programmed into the system.  I checked the config menu (BND 
MAP) and all bands are in. Somehow I may have unintentionally programmed 
an issue into the system. I haven't programmed anything into the system 
so resetting the defaults should be no loss if all goes well. The 
curiosity is how I got into this mix in the first place. Included in 
this email is an image of the front panel that might give a clue.

I have the second edition of Fred Cady's book. Point me  in the right 
direction and I'll plow through it.

All: I really appreciate the help.

73
Stan KG7FYI


On 04/29/2017 05:00 PM, Matt Zilmer-3 [via Elecraft] wrote:
> I think Stan said he was on 10m, not a transverter band.  If he has a
> transverter programmed in (maybe without his knowledge?)  10m would
> still be 10m and the xvtr band would be its own band.
>
> I'm stumped. Waiting for Stan to reply to last email
>
> Someone thought it might be LOCKed, but that applies across all bands'
> VFO settings.
>
> 73,
>
> matt W6NIA
>
>
> On 4/29/2017 4:17 PM, Nr4c wrote:
>
> > Wondering if he has a XVERTER inabled.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > ...nr4c. bill
> >
> >
> >> On Apr 29, 2017, at 4:26 PM, Matt Zilmer <[hidden email] 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> This is very confusing, Stan.  Are you saying that if you tap BAND 
> (up), you move from 24 to 28.676 MHz and then can't dial VFO A down to 
> 28.4?
> >>
> >> Explanation of why this is confusing / strange / whatever:  VFO A 
> is just an optical encoder with A/B outputs.  A and B act in 
> quadrature (only one of them changes per "click") and the transitions 
> are counted by a microcontroller (MCU).  The only limit on what 
> frequency range you can dial to is the firmware inthe MCU.  The K3 
> allows receive from VLF (136 KHz) through 30 MHz, used without a 
> transverter.
> >>
> >> Why don't you try direct frequency entry before any next steps. 
>  See if you can enter 28.400 MHz. At least that will put you on freq. 
>  Then you can memorize it using the V > M switch.
> >>
> >> I wouldn't EE INIT the radio until all other options are exhausted. 
> If you decide to do that anyway, be sure and save your K3's 
> configuration first.  You'll need to restore it after the "set 
> defaults" is completed.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >>
> >> matt W6NIA
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 4/29/2017 11:03 AM, KG7FYI wrote:
> >>> Thanks Matt. Nope all bands are set to In. I am unable to dial 
> 28.400.
> >>> The band jumps from 24.842 to 28.676. Perhaps I should try dropping
> >>> everything down to default settings and see what happens?
> >>>
> >>> 73
> >>> Stan KG7FYI
> >>>
> >>>
>  On 04/27/2017 10:44 AM, Matt Zilmer-3 [via Elecraft] wrote:
>  BND MAP may be set to OFF for 10m on his K3.  See p54 of the Owner's
>  Manual.
> 
>  73,
> 
>  matt W6NIA
> 
>
> -- 
> "A delay is better than a disaster."
> -- unknonwn
>
> Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
> [Shiraz]
>
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>
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> 
>  
>



image_1.jpg (542K) 

image_2.jpg (495K) 





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Re: [Elecraft] Using Heil Pro 7 (HC-7) element with KX3

[Allan Zadiraka]

I have been using the Pro 7 with the HC-7 on my K3s and KX3 since the Pro 7
first became available.  I have had no problems using the recommended
settings and get great audio reports.  I would first check for problem(s)
in the cable or adapter being used.


zeke
ab8ou



On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 7:28 AM, kevino z  wrote:

> After speaking to Bob Heil, he recommends the Pro 7 iC. Is it possible
> that all of the bad experiences described here were with the PRO 7 with the
> hC7 Dynamic element ? Just thinking folks had the wrong mic element...
>
> -Kevin (KK4YEL)
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Using Heil Pro 7 (HC-7) element with KX3

[David Rutledge via Elecraft]

 blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px 
#715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:white 
!important; } I use the Pro 7 with my KX3 at home.  I ordered it with the iC 
element as I remember somewhere reading that it was necessary for use with the 
KX3.  No problems whatsoever.  A very comfortable headset.  The YL likes it too 
as she gets peace and quiet! 8-)
73,DavidAL5M


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad


On Sunday, April 30, 2017, 06:28, kevino z  wrote:

After speaking to Bob Heil, he recommends the Pro 7 iC. Is it possible that all 
of the bad experiences described here were with the PRO 7 with the hC7 Dynamic 
element ? Just thinking folks had the wrong mic element...

-Kevin (KK4YEL)


No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of 
electrons were terribly inconvenienced !

> On Apr 28, 2017, at 09:27, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> David,
> 
> The Heil HC-7 mic element has a very low output level.  Several others have 
> had problems with it.  To make matters worse, Heil recommends that the K3 
> microphone gain range should be set to Low, when in fact it needs to be set 
> to the High Gain range.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
>> On 4/28/2017 8:30 AM, David Wall-NA4AE wrote:
>>  I recently tried to use a Heil Pro 7 (HC-7) element with my KX3.  Also, 
>>with the Heil adapter cable AD-1-KX3.  Re adjusted the Mic Bias (off) and Mic 
>>Btn (off).  Had very poor results.  Could not get the "Echo" out and a basic 
>>noise.  Tested extensively using another KX3 and a K3 as the test receiver.  
>>We truly went thru a series of test changing CMP, and EQ. Yes we even cut the 
>>MON off.  Could not get the problems corrected with settings.  Sent it back 
>>to Heil and they tested it and said it was OK.  Being the good company that 
>>they are, they sent me a new system.  It did the same thing. So, I gave up 
>>and took it back to HRO.  They refunded me with no problem.  I then ordered a 
>>Heil "ProSet-ic" set up for the KX3 from Elecraft. So far it seems to work 
>>fine.  I don't know what the problem is that the Pro-7 (HC-7) wouldn't work 
>>with the KX3, but there is something that is not compatible with the HC-7 
>>element.  I would have liked to have had a Pro-7 rather than the ProSet, b
> ut
>>  I couldn't get to work.  The Heil AD-1-KX3 cable is what you need to adapt 
>>the headset to the radio with a PL-59 (1/4")connection for a PTT switch 
>>(foot,hand etc). also has the TRR plug for the Mic connection.
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Re: [Elecraft] Using Heil Pro 7 (HC-7) element with KX3

[kevino z]

After speaking to Bob Heil, he recommends the Pro 7 iC. Is it possible that all 
of the bad experiences described here were with the PRO 7 with the hC7 Dynamic 
element ? Just thinking folks had the wrong mic element...

-Kevin (KK4YEL)


No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of 
electrons were terribly inconvenienced !

> On Apr 28, 2017, at 09:27, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> David,
> 
> The Heil HC-7 mic element has a very low output level.  Several others have 
> had problems with it.  To make matters worse, Heil recommends that the K3 
> microphone gain range should be set to Low, when in fact it needs to be set 
> to the High Gain range.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
>> On 4/28/2017 8:30 AM, David Wall-NA4AE wrote:
>>  I recently tried to use a Heil Pro 7 (HC-7) element with my KX3.  Also, 
>> with the Heil adapter cable AD-1-KX3.  Re adjusted the Mic Bias (off) and 
>> Mic Btn (off).  Had very poor results.  Could not get the "Echo" out and a 
>> basic noise.  Tested extensively using another KX3 and a K3 as the test 
>> receiver.  We truly went thru a series of test changing CMP, and EQ. Yes we 
>> even cut the MON off.  Could not get the problems corrected with settings.  
>> Sent it back to Heil and they tested it and said it was OK.  Being the good 
>> company that they are, they sent me a new system.  It did the same thing. 
>> So, I gave up and took it back to HRO.  They refunded me with no problem.  I 
>> then ordered a Heil "ProSet-ic" set up for the KX3 from Elecraft. So far it 
>> seems to work fine.  I don't know what the problem is that the Pro-7 (HC-7) 
>> wouldn't work with the KX3, but there is something that is not compatible 
>> with the HC-7 element.  I would have liked to have had a Pro-7 rather than 
>> the ProSet, b
> ut
>>  I couldn't get to work.  The Heil AD-1-KX3 cable is what you need to adapt 
>> the headset to the radio with a PL-59 (1/4")connection for a PTT switch 
>> (foot,hand etc). also has the TRR plug for the Mic connection.
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[Elecraft] NVIS HF vs VHF line-of-sight

[Bill W4ZV]

Hi Stan,

Responding to excerpts below:


KG7FYI wrote
> Our very local scenario is filled with mountains and valleys. We are the 
> land of “One Hundred Valleys”. Actually there are thousands of them! 2M 
> is very spotty. 
> 
> Our ARES group requires go bags for all vehicles. Few people but a lot 
> of livestock and gardens here.
> 
> My only concern was availability of frequency bandwidth. We have a least 
> two Extra Class licenses in the community and one MARS certified. 
> Unfortunately they are many 15+ miles away deep in a valley.

Sounds like a beautiful area!  You probably know this but NVIS would be a
perfect solution for you.  40 meters would be the easiest NVIS antenna (very
low dipole) to implement.  "Military NVIS communications mostly take place
on 2-4 MHz at night and on 5-7 MHz during daylight."

Here's a link explaining:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_vertical_incidence_skywave 

However this would require General Class licenses or higher for voice modes.

73 and Good Luck!

Bill  W4ZV



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