Re: [Elecraft] Query for new DSP features

[David Woolley]

Do you have a reference for an algorithm that will do this?

Noise reduction is difficult because any effective noise reduction has 
to recognize what is signal, and ideally what is the part of the signal 
that matters to the human.  The hearing aid industry has been trying to 
do this for years, with limited success.


I think the sort of noise reduction we are talking about here 
essentially tries to decide which frequencies matter and which don't and 
eliminate the latter.  However, it has to do this when what it is trying 
to identify as signal is hidden by noise.


In practice, I think what these systems achieve is increased user 
comfort, rather than recovering signal from noise, as humans are 
probably still a lot better at extracting signal from noise than 
algorithms, but they get tired in doing so.


One consequence of selective filtering will be a reduction in total 
audio power.  I'd expect the total loudness to go down.  I guess you 
could then renormalise, and increase the signal power to bring the total 
power up to the same level.  However, most of are old enough to have a 
lot of high frequency hearing loss, so one may find that correction 
needed depends on specific hearing loss of the user and the original 
spectrum of the noise; one needs to renormalise the power as waited by 
the hearing sensitivity curve of the user.  I imagine you would need, at 
least, a parameter to determine the degree of renormalisation.


Also, the more aggressive you make this sort of noise suppression, the 
more likely it is to have false positives, and suppress important 
frequencies.  Also, the more aggressive you make it, the more you will 
get distortion as the result of modifying filter parameters on the fly.


Ultimately, though, the sort of noise that these systems are trying to 
remove is random in nature, so you can never be completely sure what is 
signal and what is noise.


(Hearing aids have a particularly difficult problem in that they are 
dealing with cocktail party noise, where the noise is the summation of 
lots of things that would, individually, be signals.)


(The ultimate noise reduction system would be one that recognized the 
speech and regenerated it, complete with characteristics of the original 
speaker.  However, doing that really well can only be done by looking 
ahead several seconds, to be able to interpret meaning from what 
follows, as well as what precedes.)


As a caution, I believe the K3 has two different noise handling 
strategies:  the one I am talking about here, and one designed to deal 
with impulse noise, where you simply cut out a short section of signal 
around the noise pulse.


--
David Woolley
Owner K2 01623

On 12/01/2019 04:38, Mike Lichtman wrote:

I would like to see an improved Noise Reduction that doesn’t lower the volume 
or distort as much.



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Re: [Elecraft] Query for new DSP features

[Don Wilhelm]

David's analysis is correct.  Go to his last sentence - that is the 
Noise Blanker (NB) and not Noise Reduction (NR).  NB punches a hole in 
the signal in response to impulse noise.  It will cause signal 
distortion, getting worse with more aggressive settings.


Noise Reduction (NR) depends on correlation techniques.  It has to 
determine what is a signal, and then build a filter around that.
Once the filter is built, then the signal audio should be the same as 
normal, but the noise content will be reduced.  Yes, NR will cause 
distortion of the signal, but the idea is to be able to maintain 
communications rather than simply to get rid of the noise.


The K3/K3S/KX3/KX2 NR has several settings to allow you to customize the 
noise reduction to the particular noise you are encountering.  There is 
no "one size fits all" for all noise sources.


I have "repaired" several K2s equipped with the KDSP2 which were sent to 
me for "distorted audio" and the "cure" was to simply turn off NR in the 
KDSP2.  Yes, you should expect some audio distortion when using NR.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/12/2019 11:51 AM, David Woolley wrote:

Do you have a reference for an algorithm that will do this?

Noise reduction is difficult because any effective noise reduction has 
to recognize what is signal, and ideally what is the part of the signal 
that matters to the human.  The hearing aid industry has been trying to 
do this for years, with limited success.


I think the sort of noise reduction we are talking about here 
essentially tries to decide which frequencies matter and which don't and 
eliminate the latter.  However, it has to do this when what it is trying 
to identify as signal is hidden by noise.


In practice, I think what these systems achieve is increased user 
comfort, rather than recovering signal from noise, as humans are 
probably still a lot better at extracting signal from noise than 
algorithms, but they get tired in doing so.


One consequence of selective filtering will be a reduction in total 
audio power.  I'd expect the total loudness to go down.  I guess you 
could then renormalise, and increase the signal power to bring the total 
power up to the same level.  However, most of are old enough to have a 
lot of high frequency hearing loss, so one may find that correction 
needed depends on specific hearing loss of the user and the original 
spectrum of the noise; one needs to renormalise the power as waited by 
the hearing sensitivity curve of the user.  I imagine you would need, at 
least, a parameter to determine the degree of renormalisation.


Also, the more aggressive you make this sort of noise suppression, the 
more likely it is to have false positives, and suppress important 
frequencies.  Also, the more aggressive you make it, the more you will 
get distortion as the result of modifying filter parameters on the fly.


Ultimately, though, the sort of noise that these systems are trying to 
remove is random in nature, so you can never be completely sure what is 
signal and what is noise.


(Hearing aids have a particularly difficult problem in that they are 
dealing with cocktail party noise, where the noise is the summation of 
lots of things that would, individually, be signals.)


(The ultimate noise reduction system would be one that recognized the 
speech and regenerated it, complete with characteristics of the original 
speaker.  However, doing that really well can only be done by looking 
ahead several seconds, to be able to interpret meaning from what 
follows, as well as what precedes.)


As a caution, I believe the K3 has two different noise handling 
strategies:  the one I am talking about here, and one designed to deal 
with impulse noise, where you simply cut out a short section of signal 
around the noise pulse.



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Re: [Elecraft] Query for new DSP features

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Use external audio processing, otherwise a compressor or limiter, with 
variable attack and release and threshold and ratio controls.   Then 
follow that with a small power amp to drive an external speaker.     
Frankly, I doubt you'd like the results.


I find it better to not use the NR feature due to the artifacts 
introduced into the signal  and I find it much more satisfactory to 
correctly adjust the Attenuation and RF Gain.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 1/11/2019 10:49 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

It would be really great if the AF gain was automatically to keep the audio 
roughly level when NR is engaged. This drives me nuts, always riding the gain 
back and forth. I’m sure the gain adjustment would be different for different 
conditions, but at least get close.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)


On Jan 11, 2019, at 8:38 PM, Mike Lichtman via Elecraft 
 wrote:

Wayne,
I would like to see an improved Noise Reduction that doesn’t lower the 
volume or distort as much. Also the digital mode decode has never really worked 
well for me and, yes,
I read the manual about using it. Could you have the digital choices RTTY, 
PSK31, etc. instead of the current settings like FSK, data, etc?
Pie in the sky thought — Having the radio identify the type of digital signal 
being received with a word in the display and automatically change 
modes/settings to accommodate it.  73 Mike KF6KXG
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Re: [Elecraft] Sorta OT - assistive technology assistance

[Edward R Cole]

Al-W6LX,

Commendable.  I enjoy building stuff, too.  Not so far as to design a 
radio "ground up" but my first ham radio was a kit back when I was 14 
years old.  Mainly because it was cheaper ($19.95 in 1958).  When I 
got my Novice license my dad bought my elmer's DX35 for me (he wanted 
to upgrade to DX100).


Later getting on 2m AM a friend modified my WWII aircraft radio for 
me (still a teen with no experience or test equip) but I built two 
8-element yagis from conduit and aluminum ground wire and put up a 
small tower (with manual rotation).


Over time I learned more and took on bigger projects (see my website 
for examples).  Now on 630m to 3cm. EME on three bands going to five bands.


Along the way I got a college degree and had some nifty jobs (sent a 
few spacecraft out into the Universe).  Now retired and finishing up 
a 1200w sspa kit for 2m.  I built a few Heathkits in my time.  I 
consider a kit as something you solder vs just assembling hardware 
(sorry Elecraft).  My Elecraft are all "kits" partly because I am cheap.


But I also felt it made little sense to reinvent things one could buy 
good quality.  Thus I have my K3U and KX3-2M; an old FT-736R and an 
old MOT 900-MHz mobile radio.  I do not bake my own integrated ckts 
but will solder a few onto my custom pcb's.


Nothing wrong with buying vs building; you still have to put the 
station together as a system.


73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com/

From: Al Lorona 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net, Richards 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Sorta OT - assistive technology assistance
Message-ID: <662386660.10209974.1547236134...@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

JR - I have a folder of dozens of replies to Elecraft posts that I've 
never sent. (I try to exercise discipline so that the moderator 
doesn't have to slap me on the hand.) But your reply said *exactly* 
what a draft that I had written said. I'm very happy that you 
expressed the same idea.


Building vs. buying, especially when buying is cheaper, is the 
homebrewer's dilemma. You now have to really want to learn something 
to build something yourself, and not merely save money.? More and 
more, homebrewing is in effect paying "tuition" to learn by doing.


I built a QRP transceiver totally from scratch last year, and 
virtually everybody I told asked me, "Why?" It took me weeks and 
weeks and, had I not been blessed with a really good junk box, would 
have cost me more than a KX2. But... I got to work with some really 
cool ultra low noise op amps and figured out how to get a half-watt 
out of a 2N, so putting this particular rig on the air for the 
first time was my "diploma".


I hope your construction project goes well. Please let us know when 
you get it working.


Al? W6LX


73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 & Drake TR7

[bp]

Hello EA3IN,

There is a 1 kilowatt solid state amplifier, using NXP 188 final power 
transistors, built in England.


Please see LinearAmp company, model Gemini HF-1K amplifier.  I believe 
that DXshop is the


vendor.  Regards, bp.  K2AYA.

On 1/12/19 12:59 PM, Marcel Jorba via Elecraft wrote:

Greetings from Barcelona
I have here a K3-KPA500 setup that runs great
I also have a TR7 and I am thinking about using it together with the KPA500 The 
obvious problem: The TR7 delivers a lot of watts (200 pep).
Is it an idea to discard? Or is there any reasonable approach to? ALC control 
is not a good idea I think
As an alternative (500-1000 W), is there any small (in size) linear to 
consider? I don't want to go back to the big tube linears. The KPA500 is great 
for what I want to have here.
73s de Marcel - EA3IN
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Re: [Elecraft] Query for new DSP features

[bill]

Regarding my K3 (original): DSP reduces the volume. When you turn the 
volume up to where you can again hear - the junk noise level is right 
back up there also.


A couple of days ago we had a major wind storm and a power line down the 
road was periodically arcing. It was uncomfortable to listen to (on LSB 
75 meters). I was using my Icom 7300 and pushed the NR button. Amazing, 
the noises were reduced to nearly nothing and the audio level remained 
as it had been. Then I switched to the K3 and tried the Noise Reduction 
- no joy. I tried various settings, all under water and reduced volume. 
I went back to the 7300 and continued enjoying my armchair copy 75 meter 
QSO. Oh yes, I do know about reducing RX gain and proper use of ATT.


Sure, the argument can be made that the 7300 is a newer rig. You can 
also argue that the DSP can be updated via software for the K3.


Sadly, since I purchased my IC-7300, I have only used the K3 for a few 
CW contacts. Understand, my ham radio activities are 99% LSB on 
160/75/40 meters. I do not DX or contest. No external VFO or keypad for 
the 7300,which I do miss. However,a plastic stylus does wonderful on the 
touch screen.



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Re: [Elecraft] Query for new DSP features

[Walter Underwood]

Sorry, KX3. Though I think the K3 and KX2 use similar algorithms.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Jan 11, 2019, at 8:53 PM, John Evans  wrote:
> 
> And yet, I have no idea which Elecraft rig you are referring to here.  Drives 
> us K1, K2, KX3 owners crazy.
> 
> 73 - john - n0hj
> 
> On 1/11/2019 9:49 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
>> It would be really great if the AF gain was automatically to keep the audio 
>> roughly level when NR is engaged. This drives me nuts, always riding the 
>> gain back and forth. I’m sure the gain adjustment would be different for 
>> different conditions, but at least get close.
>> 
>> wunder
>> K6WRU
>> Walter Underwood
>> CM87wj
>> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>> 
>>> On Jan 11, 2019, at 8:38 PM, Mike Lichtman via Elecraft 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wayne,
>>>I would like to see an improved Noise Reduction that doesn’t lower the 
>>> volume or distort as much. Also the digital mode decode has never really 
>>> worked well for me and, yes,
>>> I read the manual about using it. Could you have the digital choices RTTY, 
>>> PSK31, etc. instead of the current settings like FSK, data, etc?
>>> Pie in the sky thought — Having the radio identify the type of digital 
>>> signal being received with a word in the display and automatically change 
>>> modes/settings to accommodate it.  73 Mike KF6KXG
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 & Drake TR7

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

If you can run 200 watts PEP with the TR7, why run a 500 watt amp?    
Otherwise, you'll need a 10dB attenuator between the TR7 and the 
KPA500.  Hence turn 180 watts of RF from the TR7 into heat as it takes 
only about 20 watts to drive the KPA500 to rated output.


73

Bob, K4TAX



On 1/12/2019 11:59 AM, Marcel Jorba via Elecraft wrote:

Greetings from Barcelona
I have here a K3-KPA500 setup that runs great
I also have a TR7 and I am thinking about using it together with the KPA500 The 
obvious problem: The TR7 delivers a lot of watts (200 pep).
Is it an idea to discard? Or is there any reasonable approach to? ALC control 
is not a good idea I think
As an alternative (500-1000 W), is there any small (in size) linear to 
consider? I don't want to go back to the big tube linears. The KPA500 is great 
for what I want to have here.
73s de Marcel - EA3IN
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 & Drake TR7

[Don Wilhelm]

Marcel,

Can you add a "Power Control" to the TR7?
It may be as easy as applying a constant negative voltage to the ALC 
input.  That constant ALC voltage will not cause the problems 
encountered when using the dynamic ALC voltage that is applied from the 
amplifier.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/12/2019 12:59 PM, Marcel Jorba via Elecraft wrote:

Greetings from Barcelona
I have here a K3-KPA500 setup that runs great
I also have a TR7 and I am thinking about using it together with the KPA500 The 
obvious problem: The TR7 delivers a lot of watts (200 pep).
Is it an idea to discard? Or is there any reasonable approach to? ALC control 
is not a good idea I think
As an alternative (500-1000 W), is there any small (in size) linear to 
consider? I don't want to go back to the big tube linears. The KPA500 is great 
for what I want to have here.
73s de Marcel - EA3IN

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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 RX I/Q testing

[Thorpe, Jeffrey]

iSDR does require a USB soundcard with a stereo mic input, like the Griffin. 
The easiest way to check if you are utilizing the stereo mic function in iSDR 
is to check your iPad screen while running it and see if you are getting 22 or 
44 kHz. If it shows 22, you are only getting mono mic.

Jeff - KG7HDZ

> On Jan 12, 2019, at 12:51 AM, Kevin F.  wrote:
> 
> I will report back after trying some of the I/Q based softwares out there,
> however I did try iSDR which is supposed to work with USB sound card, it
> didn't work. I'll try the windows based program tomorrow and report back.
> 
> 
> 
> --
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[Elecraft] KPA500 & Drake TR7

[Marcel Jorba via Elecraft]

Greetings from Barcelona
I have here a K3-KPA500 setup that runs great
I also have a TR7 and I am thinking about using it together with the KPA500 The 
obvious problem: The TR7 delivers a lot of watts (200 pep).
Is it an idea to discard? Or is there any reasonable approach to? ALC control 
is not a good idea I think
As an alternative (500-1000 W), is there any small (in size) linear to 
consider? I don't want to go back to the big tube linears. The KPA500 is great 
for what I want to have here.
73s de Marcel - EA3IN
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 RX I/Q testing

[Kevin F.]

Thanks for the input I'm using the suggested iMic which does have a line
input and a mic input. I'm beginning to believe that it really is that the
radio is not working correctly. I'm going to reach out elecraft directly to
see what I can do without sending the radio to them for the fact that I'm
using it for my CWA class.



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[Elecraft] Francesco Gentile: Unsubscribe me to Elecraft mailing list

[Francesco Gentile]

Please Unsubscribe me to the Elecraft mailing list.
Thank You very much.

   Francesco Gentile
I2MKS, Milano,. Italy
email: f.genti...@gmail.com
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Re: [Elecraft] New DSP features? ... thanks

[Grant Youngman]

I love that one. Along the same lines, a broad brick-wall notch that 
auto-detects the recurring clown show on 7200 KHz would be a welcome addition 
... especially if it could auto-suppress music.

Sent from my iPhone

> 
> My favorite so far is the request for Semantic Filtering Mode (SFM), which 
> "might, with skillful adjustment, suppress political commentary from 75 
> meters." Our DSP IC does include odd/even partisan check bits, so this is a 
> SMOP.
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Query for new DSP features

[Bill Steffey]

forty years in the audio business have allowed me to hear some of the 
best and worst audio/\
I bought clear speech before and after Bob tired selling it, and two 
others before finding the BHI product series from England. Some how 
their algorithm, to me at least, does the least harm to human voice when 
engaging the NR function. With both a 7800 and K3 I ended up with their 
dual channel NR with EQ. I did not want or need the EQ, but wanted the 
two channels for the dual receiver sets. I use a large Microham to 
switch the audio around feeding the BHIs. Graham at BHI explained their 
algorithm to me at Dayton, and sounded somewhat patent protected.
I had expected, when the K3 upgrades came along with the additional set 
of settings for the NR I could delete the BHI. did not happen. Amazing 
how a pile of 1s & 0s can make such a difference.And I somehow it passes CW.

picky picky picky... I know .

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[Elecraft] New DSP Idea

[David Gilbert]

I know Wayne requested direct replies to his query and I've already done 
that, but I have a serious suggestion and I'm curious if others here 
would be interested.  Here it is:


===
The two receivers in a K3 or K3s can be phase locked for diversity 
reception, and the new synths preserve that phase lock even with a 
change in frequency.  Since the relative phase of an incoming signal 
presented to the two receivers is preserved during down conversion, it 
is possible to capture that phase difference even in the audio chain.  
Once that phase difference is known, it should be possible to:


1.  Display the difference.  This would allow a user to put up two 
vertical sense antennas to determine the azimuth of an incoming signal 
(albeit with a potential mirror image uncertainty).  Or put up two 
horizontal sense antennas to display the arrival angle of an incoming 
signal.


2.  Better yet, it should be possible to adjust the relative phase and 
amplitude of an incoming signal from the two antennas, then either add 
them or subtract one from the other to either peak a desired signal or 
null an interfering signal (including a source of noise, man made or 
atmospheric).

===

There are commercially available pieces of hardware from various ham 
suppliers that perform this same function except at RF (which is more 
difficult), and they cost several hundreds of dollars.  It seems to me 
that any K3s, or K3 with the new synths, should be able to do the same 
thing virtually for free.


73,
Dave   AB7E

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Re: [Elecraft] New DSP Idea

[Don Wilhelm]

Dave,

Using Diversity Receive, the human brain does that automatically (but 
not with the numbers).  You can sort out both signals and automatically 
pick the best one or a blend of the two.  This is an unconscious process.


The name of the game is communications, not looking at numbers 
representing the two signals or the difference between them.


To analyze and display the differences may be useful in a lab setting, 
but not of much use for quickly picking the best path for a QSO.


Just my opinion.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/12/2019 5:06 PM, David Gilbert wrote:


I know Wayne requested direct replies to his query and I've already done 
that, but I have a serious suggestion and I'm curious if others here 
would be interested.  Here it is:


===
The two receivers in a K3 or K3s can be phase locked for diversity 
reception, and the new synths preserve that phase lock even with a 
change in frequency.  Since the relative phase of an incoming signal 
presented to the two receivers is preserved during down conversion, it 
is possible to capture that phase difference even in the audio chain. 
Once that phase difference is known, it should be possible to:


1.  Display the difference.  This would allow a user to put up two 
vertical sense antennas to determine the azimuth of an incoming signal 
(albeit with a potential mirror image uncertainty).  Or put up two 
horizontal sense antennas to display the arrival angle of an incoming 
signal.


2.  Better yet, it should be possible to adjust the relative phase and 
amplitude of an incoming signal from the two antennas, then either add 
them or subtract one from the other to either peak a desired signal or 
null an interfering signal (including a source of noise, man made or 
atmospheric).

===

There are commercially available pieces of hardware from various ham 
suppliers that perform this same function except at RF (which is more 
difficult), and they cost several hundreds of dollars.  It seems to me 
that any K3s, or K3 with the new synths, should be able to do the same 
thing virtually for free.


73,
Dave   AB7E

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[Elecraft] KPA-1500 kudos

[N4ZR]

As such things seem to go in my life, I received my new KPA-1500 the day 
before the NAQP, which has a 100-watt limit.  Imagine my delight to 
discover that the ATU can operate with the amp on standby. Using this 
feature, I was able to feed my 40m 1/2 wave sloper on 80 meters, in 
place of my Carolina windom, which had come down .  Bravo, Elecraft!


--

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

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[Elecraft] un-subscribe

[bp]

Hello Elecraft mailing list,

Thank you for your mailing list and the good information

I received.  However, please un-subscribe me from the

mailing list.   Regards, bp.  K2AYA

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Re: [Elecraft] un-subscribe

[Don Wilhelm]

bp,

We on the list are just users like you, and we cannot unsubscribe anyone.

You will have to unsubscribe yourself.  Go to the "Home:" link at the 
bottom of any posting and sign in to unsubscribe or change your settings.


If you have trouble, email modera...@elecraft.com and ask for assistance.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/12/2019 4:29 PM, bp wrote:

Hello Elecraft mailing list,

Thank you for your mailing list and the good information

I received.  However, please un-subscribe me from the

mailing list.   Regards, bp.  K2AYA

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Re: [Elecraft] Query for new DSP features

[Christopher Hoover]

On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 8:50 PM Walter Underwood 
wrote:

> It would be really great if the AF gain was automatically to keep the
> audio roughly level when NR is engaged. This drives me nuts, always riding
> the gain back and forth. I’m sure the gain adjustment would be different
> for different conditions, but at least get close.
>

+1 to this
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Re: [Elecraft] New DSP features? ... thanks

[Don Wilhelm]

Grant,

Just turn the VFO knob!  It works.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/12/2019 4:03 PM, Grant Youngman wrote:

I love that one. Along the same lines, a broad brick-wall notch that 
auto-detects the recurring clown show on 7200 KHz would be a welcome addition 
... especially if it could auto-suppress music.


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Re: [Elecraft] New DSP Idea

[David Gilbert]

Don,

No, it isn't the same at all and I don't understand why you think it 
is.  Your brain may be able to discern differences in phase and try to 
focus in on one signal versus others, but it isn't going to do any of 
these things:


1.  Actually amplify a desired signal (probably 2 to 3 db) at the 
expense of other signals or generalized noise from other directions.  
Hams who put up phased verticals don't do it strictly for the transmit gain.


2.  Totally null out an offending signal or noise from a particular 
direction.  Your brain most certainly can't do this.


3.  Give you angle measurements in degrees.

As I said, I consider the add/subtract ability (#1 and #2) to be more 
useful than the simple display of the phase difference (#3), but we 
could have both.


Check this out  https://tinyurl.com/ydfvcauz

It's a hardware implementation of pretty much the same as I'm proposing 
Elecraft do in software, and the hardware version goes for $750.


Dave   AB7E


On 1/12/2019 3:19 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Dave,

Using Diversity Receive, the human brain does that automatically (but 
not with the numbers).  You can sort out both signals and 
automatically pick the best one or a blend of the two.  This is an 
unconscious process.


The name of the game is communications, not looking at numbers 
representing the two signals or the difference between them.


To analyze and display the differences may be useful in a lab setting, 
but not of much use for quickly picking the best path for a QSO.


Just my opinion.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/12/2019 5:06 PM, David Gilbert wrote:


I know Wayne requested direct replies to his query and I've already 
done that, but I have a serious suggestion and I'm curious if others 
here would be interested.  Here it is:


===
The two receivers in a K3 or K3s can be phase locked for diversity 
reception, and the new synths preserve that phase lock even with a 
change in frequency.  Since the relative phase of an incoming signal 
presented to the two receivers is preserved during down conversion, 
it is possible to capture that phase difference even in the audio 
chain. Once that phase difference is known, it should be possible to:


1.  Display the difference.  This would allow a user to put up two 
vertical sense antennas to determine the azimuth of an incoming 
signal (albeit with a potential mirror image uncertainty).  Or put up 
two horizontal sense antennas to display the arrival angle of an 
incoming signal.


2.  Better yet, it should be possible to adjust the relative phase 
and amplitude of an incoming signal from the two antennas, then 
either add them or subtract one from the other to either peak a 
desired signal or null an interfering signal (including a source of 
noise, man made or atmospheric).

===

There are commercially available pieces of hardware from various ham 
suppliers that perform this same function except at RF (which is more 
difficult), and they cost several hundreds of dollars.  It seems to 
me that any K3s, or K3 with the new synths, should be able to do the 
same thing virtually for free.


73,
Dave   AB7E

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[Elecraft] KXV3a for sale

[Robert Brown via Elecraft]

KXV3a, recently replaced by KXV3b - $85/shipped.  Bob Brown, N1CVX

Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Elecraft] New DSP Idea

[Don Wilhelm]

Bill,

When they are driven from the same synthesizer, they are indeed "phase 
locked".


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/12/2019 5:59 PM, Nr4c wrote:

I’m not an engineer but from the discussions here in the past, in diversity 
mode, the VFOs are not “phase locked” but actually driven by the same 
synthesizer, so they both get the very same frequency info.  Thus output the 
same frequency.


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[Elecraft] FS: BHI

[Erik Basilier]

On the subject of BHI, I once had an ambitious project to build a switch box 
incorporating some SO2R functions plus two BHI DSP single channel units. Before 
I had finished wiring the unit (starting with just one BHI channel unit) my 
understanding of SO2R requirements grew to the point that I abandoned my build 
and went with a commercial MicroHam SO2R box. At this point I am no longer 
motivated to get a second BHI unit and deploy them. If anyone is inerested in 
buying the one I have, please email me directly and we can discuss a deal. To 
be clear: This is a unit for integration in other equipment, and not a 
standalone box ready to place on your desk. It does incorporate an AF power amp 
for driving a speaker, and the input may be driven from the radio speaker 
output.
73,
Erik K7TV

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Erik Basilier
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 1:11 PM
To: 'Walter Underwood' ; 'Elecraft Reflector Reflector' 

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Query for new DSP features

The noise level at my QTH is not nearly as bad as many of you have. The K3 
S-meter tends to read around S4 on the background noise noise (SSB bandwidth, 
20m preamp off, atten off). When it comes to engaging NR, like many others I 
have in the past tended to crank up the aggressiveness etc and noted a loss of 
apparent volume on the wanted signal, and apparent loss of the higher frequency 
voice components. I have compensated by cranking up the volume and widening the 
passband (which helped little as the received station had insufficient boost of 
highs). I have admired the apparently better results from other DSP 
implementations such as BHI and other radios. Lately I have modified my 
approach to using the K3 DSP, and found much better results. For ssb I now have 
NR engaged full time and like it. The setting is the least aggressive possible: 
F1-1. I used to have the impression that this setting did little to help, but I 
have changed my opinion. The sound with this weak NR on now s
 eems very normal and comfortably intelligible. If I turn NR off, I can still 
read the signal, but it sounds harsh and tiring. I can't say the NR makes an 
unreadable signal readable, but it makes the copy more comfortable. My old 
brain seems to, slowly, adjust its own filtering to fit what is being heard, 
not just to focus on the wanted cw signal in a wider passband, but also when 
listening to voice when switching between NR on/off. This may be just my 
speculation, but subjectively, even with no radio involved, I seem to need an 
adjustment period also when listening to different adult voices, and especially 
when going between an adult voice and that of a small child. The existing K3 
DSP seems to be optimized based on objectively measurable criteria that are 
somewhat at odds with the strange workings of the human auditory system. 
Perhaps the addition of a tone control that alters the low/high tonal balance 
would be a helpful new resource for those who feel the NR makes signals
  sound weak or too bassy. The tone control setting could be automatically 
engaged with an emphasis on the highs when NR is engaged. It could also be 
helpful as a manual control for adapting to stations that have not adjusted 
their transmit equalizer to fit the operator's voice. Besides a low/high tilt, 
a peak/notch function might be helpful.
73,
Erik K7TV
e delivered to ebasil...@cox.net

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[Elecraft] AX1 antenna - indoor performance initial results

[Mike Parkes]

Hello everyone in Elecraft land!
I just wanted to share my initial results with the AX1 with my KX3 and I am
happy to report contacts on 20 meters at 2 watts on the AX1 from indoors,
the antenna just sitting on the table here in the shack! The contacts were
on wspr mode and I was getting out, but I have yet to decode anything. But
I know the little AX1 can be heard so I am confident reception would be
there if the environment was a little quieter! I have rfi/qrm noise issues
in the shack here so reception is always a challenge. Just wanted to share
that, this little antenna is very cool.
73's Mike AB7RU / Spokane, WA
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Re: [Elecraft] Query for new DSP features

[Erik Basilier]

The noise level at my QTH is not nearly as bad as many of you have. The K3 
S-meter tends to read around S4 on the background noise noise (SSB bandwidth, 
20m preamp off, atten off). When it comes to engaging NR, like many others I 
have in the past tended to crank up the aggressiveness etc and noted a loss of 
apparent volume on the wanted signal, and apparent loss of the higher frequency 
voice components. I have compensated by cranking up the volume and widening the 
passband (which helped little as the received station had insufficient boost of 
highs). I have admired the apparently better results from other DSP 
implementations such as BHI and other radios. Lately I have modified my 
approach to using the K3 DSP, and found much better results. For ssb I now have 
NR engaged full time and like it. The setting is the least aggressive possible: 
F1-1. I used to have the impression that this setting did little to help, but I 
have changed my opinion. The sound with this weak NR on now seems very normal 
and comfortably intelligible. If I turn NR off, I can still read the signal, 
but it sounds harsh and tiring. I can't say the NR makes an unreadable signal 
readable, but it makes the copy more comfortable. My old brain seems to, 
slowly, adjust its own filtering to fit what is being heard, not just to focus 
on the wanted cw signal in a wider passband, but also when listening to voice 
when switching between NR on/off. This may be just my speculation, but 
subjectively, even with no radio involved, I seem to need an adjustment period 
also when listening to different adult voices, and especially when going 
between an adult voice and that of a small child. The existing K3 DSP seems to 
be optimized based on objectively measurable criteria that are somewhat at odds 
with the strange workings of the human auditory system. Perhaps the addition of 
a tone control that alters the low/high tonal balance would be a helpful new 
resource for those who feel the NR makes signals sound weak or too bassy. The 
tone control setting could be automatically engaged with an emphasis on the 
highs when NR is engaged. It could also be helpful as a manual control for 
adapting to stations that have not adjusted their transmit equalizer to fit the 
operator's voice. Besides a low/high tilt, a peak/notch function might be 
helpful.
73,
Erik K7TV

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Walter Underwood
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 9:21 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Query for new DSP features

Sorry, KX3. Though I think the K3 and KX2 use similar algorithms.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Jan 11, 2019, at 8:53 PM, John Evans  wrote:
> 
> And yet, I have no idea which Elecraft rig you are referring to here.  Drives 
> us K1, K2, KX3 owners crazy.
> 
> 73 - john - n0hj
> 
> On 1/11/2019 9:49 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
>> It would be really great if the AF gain was automatically to keep the audio 
>> roughly level when NR is engaged. This drives me nuts, always riding the 
>> gain back and forth. I’m sure the gain adjustment would be different for 
>> different conditions, but at least get close.
>> 
>> wunder
>> K6WRU
>> Walter Underwood
>> CM87wj
>> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>> 
>>> On Jan 11, 2019, at 8:38 PM, Mike Lichtman via Elecraft 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wayne,
>>>I would like to see an improved Noise Reduction that doesn’t 
>>> lower the volume or distort as much. Also the digital mode decode has never 
>>> really worked well for me and, yes, I read the manual about using it. Could 
>>> you have the digital choices RTTY, PSK31, etc. instead of the current 
>>> settings like FSK, data, etc?
>>> Pie in the sky thought — Having the radio identify the type of 
>>> digital signal being received with a word in the display and 
>>> automatically change modes/settings to accommodate it.  73 Mike 
>>> KF6KXG
> 
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> wun...@wunderwood.org

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This list 

[Elecraft] Battery Low K3

[Mpridesti via Elecraft]

Just saw a message pop up saying Battery Low

Assume this is the internal battery requires replacement?

Regards,
Mark, K1RX

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[Elecraft] Elecraft CW Net Announcement

[kevinr]

Good Evening,

   The small sunspot of last week has crossed over the limb of the 
sun.  Some auroral activity so there are ions out there. Without the 
storms of summer it should be pretty quiet.  My noise floor is normally 
low, somewhere below S1.  No nearby neighbors, no electric fences, and 
underground power lines.  My only possible interference is from the 
antenna farm about 1/2 a mile away.  An aircraft beacon, with various 
amateur, state police, forestry, and fire repeaters.  The antenna which 
sends me Internet is the one to the east.  There may be an FM broadcast 
band repeater too, I'm not sure.  Oh and a cellular telephone repeater.  
All of them live above 20 meters.  I don't think there is a beacon for 
mariners, I am not that close to the ocean but the Columbia River is not 
that far to my north or east.  However, I've never heard any 
interference from any of those antennas on the frequencies I use.


   The mild weather has the buds swelling and a few sprouts popping 
up.  We had two inches of snow Monday morning but the temperatures have 
risen into the low fifties.  I am waiting for the other shoe to drop.


Please join us tomorrow on:

14050 kHz at 2200z Sunday  (2 PM PST Sunday)
 7047 kHz at z Monday  (4 PM PST Sunday)

73,

   Kevin. KD5ONS

-

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Re: [Elecraft] New DSP features? ... thanks

[Wayne Burdick]

Thanks for all the many great suggestions and digressions, folks. Sorry I can't 
respond to all of them right away.

My favorite so far is the request for Semantic Filtering Mode (SFM), which 
"might, with skillful adjustment, suppress political commentary from 75 
meters." Our DSP IC does include odd/even partisan check bits, so this is a 
SMOP.

Runner-up is a proposal for auto-detection of unattended FT8 transmissions, 
i.e. the "No One's Home AlarM" (NOHAM).

Feel free to pile on, at least until Eric puts the hammer down.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Re: [Elecraft] New DSP Idea

[Nr4c]

I’m not an engineer but from the discussions here in the past, in diversity 
mode, the VFOs are not “phase locked” but actually driven by the same 
synthesizer, so they both get the very same frequency info.  Thus output the 
same frequency. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Jan 12, 2019, at 5:06 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:
> 
> 
> I know Wayne requested direct replies to his query and I've already done 
> that, but I have a serious suggestion and I'm curious if others here would be 
> interested.  Here it is:
> 
> ===
> The two receivers in a K3 or K3s can be phase locked for diversity reception, 
> and the new synths preserve that phase lock even with a change in frequency.  
> Since the relative phase of an incoming signal presented to the two receivers 
> is preserved during down conversion, it is possible to capture that phase 
> difference even in the audio chain.  Once that phase difference is known, it 
> should be possible to:
> 
> 1.  Display the difference.  This would allow a user to put up two vertical 
> sense antennas to determine the azimuth of an incoming signal (albeit with a 
> potential mirror image uncertainty).  Or put up two horizontal sense antennas 
> to display the arrival angle of an incoming signal.
> 
> 2.  Better yet, it should be possible to adjust the relative phase and 
> amplitude of an incoming signal from the two antennas, then either add them 
> or subtract one from the other to either peak a desired signal or null an 
> interfering signal (including a source of noise, man made or atmospheric).
> ===
> 
> There are commercially available pieces of hardware from various ham 
> suppliers that perform this same function except at RF (which is more 
> difficult), and they cost several hundreds of dollars.  It seems to me that 
> any K3s, or K3 with the new synths, should be able to do the same thing 
> virtually for free.
> 
> 73,
> Dave   AB7E
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] New DSP features? ... thanks

[Eric Norris]

Might I suggest a filter that translates a bug user who sends at 15wpm, but
the dots are set to 35wpm.  The filter would briefly store the cw, correct
the timing, and then pass it through the audio stages.  Call it the
VibroDummy, or VD1 filter setting.

Another one would filter out the long "ad uh..." of VOX users
who only transmit 50% or less of transmit time as intelligible speech,
remove the non data periods, then pass the compressed version on.  Call it
the VoxDummy, or VD2 filter.

Finally, introduce NR so sophisticated it automatically finds the correct
tuning soloution, requiring another 4 cu ft of room inside the K3 for
microprocessers and memory.  Release it in a bloated, gigantic case, add 50
controls to the front panel, and call it a K4, thereby silencing two sets
of critics who post--but do not read--on the reflector.

73 Eric WD6DBM

On Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 12:08 PM Wayne Burdick  Thanks for all the many great suggestions and digressions, folks. Sorry I
> can't respond to all of them right away.
>
> My favorite so far is the request for Semantic Filtering Mode (SFM), which
> "might, with skillful adjustment, suppress political commentary from 75
> meters." Our DSP IC does include odd/even partisan check bits, so this is a
> SMOP.
>
> Runner-up is a proposal for auto-detection of unattended FT8
> transmissions, i.e. the "No One's Home AlarM" (NOHAM).
>
> Feel free to pile on...
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Battery Low K3

[Mpridesti via Elecraft]

Don

It is a K3.  Bought it used and carries a low serial number. Never have changed 
the internal battery (over 8 years in my possession). 

Regards,
Mark, K1RX


> On Jan 12, 2019, at 11:41 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> I assume you mean the KX3.  The K3 has no internal battery.
> 
> If you have Ni-MH batteries, they need recharging.  If you are using Alkaline 
> batteries, they need to be replaced.  I assume you have set the menu BAT MIN 
> for the type of battery you are using.  See the KX3 manual page 36 of the 
> manual.
> 
> Set BAT MIN for the type batteries used.  The default of 10 volts is good for 
> external Lead Acid batteries.  All other types require a different setting.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
>> On 1/12/2019 10:40 PM, Mpridesti via Elecraft wrote:
>> Just saw a message pop up saying Battery Low
>> Assume this is the internal battery requires replacement?

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Re: [Elecraft] New DSP features? ... thanks

[kevinr]

Sounds like a project for a neural network.  A bit of AI which 
'recognizes' patterns.  There would be ~ 40 outputs for letters, 
numbers, and symbols.  I am unsure of the number of inputs nor of the 
middle layer(s) of the net.  But that's just a bit of engineering.


The training sets would consist of a large set of "Lake Erie swing 
music" and expert interpretations of it.  Find a large computer and 
spend a few weeks training the NN.


There are some shortcuts I foresee.  Quite a few characters can't (?) be 
messed up by the misuse of a bug.  T, O, M, etc.  Those don't really 
need to go through the NN so you can save on the number of outputs and 
decrease the training time significantly.


The neat things is once you've done all this work you can put the 
trained NN into a very small space of code.  And use a moderate number 
of processor cycles.


Not quite DSP but AI is just another acronym :)

    73,

    Kevin.  KD5ONS

-

On 1/12/19 8:30 PM, Eric Norris wrote:

Might I suggest a filter that translates a bug user who sends at 15wpm, but
the dots are set to 35wpm.  The filter would briefly store the cw, correct
the timing, and then pass it through the audio stages.  Call it the
VibroDummy, or VD1 filter setting.

Another one would filter out the long "ad uh..." of VOX users
who only transmit 50% or less of transmit time as intelligible speech,
remove the non data periods, then pass the compressed version on.  Call it
the VoxDummy, or VD2 filter.

Finally, introduce NR so sophisticated it automatically finds the correct
tuning soloution, requiring another 4 cu ft of room inside the K3 for
microprocessers and memory.  Release it in a bloated, gigantic case, add 50
controls to the front panel, and call it a K4, thereby silencing two sets
of critics who post--but do not read--on the reflector.

73 Eric WD6DBM

On Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 12:08 PM Wayne Burdick 
Thanks for all the many great suggestions and digressions, folks. Sorry I
can't respond to all of them right away.

My favorite so far is the request for Semantic Filtering Mode (SFM), which
"might, with skillful adjustment, suppress political commentary from 75
meters." Our DSP IC does include odd/even partisan check bits, so this is a
SMOP.

Runner-up is a proposal for auto-detection of unattended FT8
transmissions, i.e. the "No One's Home AlarM" (NOHAM).

Feel free to pile on...


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Re: [Elecraft] Battery Low K3

[Don Wilhelm]

I assume you mean the KX3.  The K3 has no internal battery.

If you have Ni-MH batteries, they need recharging.  If you are using 
Alkaline batteries, they need to be replaced.  I assume you have set the 
menu BAT MIN for the type of battery you are using.  See the KX3 manual 
page 36 of the manual.


Set BAT MIN for the type batteries used.  The default of 10 volts is 
good for external Lead Acid batteries.  All other types require a 
different setting.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/12/2019 10:40 PM, Mpridesti via Elecraft wrote:

Just saw a message pop up saying Battery Low

Assume this is the internal battery requires replacement?


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Re: [Elecraft] Battery Low K3

[Bill Frantz]

I get that message when the main power supply for the radio is 
low. (I use a solar power with battery system most of the time.) 
Check your power supply.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 1/13/19 at 9:01 PM, elecraft@mailman.qth.net (Mpridesti via 
Elecraft) wrote:


It is a K3.  Bought it used and carries a low serial number. 
Never have changed the internal battery (over 8 years in my possession).

...



On 1/12/2019 10:40 PM, Mpridesti via Elecraft wrote:
Just saw a message pop up saying Battery Low
Assume this is the internal battery requires replacement?


---
Bill Frantz| I like the farmers' market   | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | because I can get fruits and | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | vegetables without stickers. | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] Battery Low K3

[Grant Youngman]

Actually it does.  I think it keeps the clock running … 

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091 KX3 #8342

> 
> 
> I assume you mean the KX3.  The K3 has no internal battery.
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] New DSP features? ... thanks

[Mark via Elecraft]

Eric 
Best post of the year!!!  I will be chuckling at that all night; yet, you 
delivered exactly what Wayne asked for and we all wish our radios had.  You 
even gave the K4 speculators something to chew on for a while.  I will go to 
the gym tomorrow to start building my arms and legs to handle my new KX3ss!  
The "ss" is for supersized!
Great stuff!
MarkKE6BB



 Original message From: Eric Norris  
Date: 1/12/19  8:30 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: Wayne Burdick  Cc: 
"elecraft@mailman qth. net" , k...@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New DSP features? ... thanks 
Might I suggest a filter that translates a bug user who sends at 15wpm, but
the dots are set to 35wpm.  The filter would briefly store the cw, correct
the timing, and then pass it through the audio stages.  Call it the
VibroDummy, or VD1 filter setting.

Another one would filter out the long "ad uh..." of VOX users
who only transmit 50% or less of transmit time as intelligible speech,
remove the non data periods, then pass the compressed version on.  Call it
the VoxDummy, or VD2 filter.

Finally, introduce NR so sophisticated it automatically finds the correct
tuning soloution, requiring another 4 cu ft of room inside the K3 for
microprocessers and memory.  Release it in a bloated, gigantic case, add 50
controls to the front panel, and call it a K4, thereby silencing two sets
of critics who post--but do not read--on the reflector.

73 Eric WD6DBM

On Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 12:08 PM Wayne Burdick  Thanks for all the many great suggestions and digressions, folks. Sorry I
> can't respond to all of them right away.
>
> My favorite so far is the request for Semantic Filtering Mode (SFM), which
> "might, with skillful adjustment, suppress political commentary from 75
> meters." Our DSP IC does include odd/even partisan check bits, so this is a
> SMOP.
>
> Runner-up is a proposal for auto-detection of unattended FT8
> transmissions, i.e. the "No One's Home AlarM" (NOHAM).
>
> Feel free to pile on...
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Yama CM-500 Replacement

[N2TK, Tony]

I dug up some more info on replacement cushions. I had first bought a pair of 
the replacement cushions from AliExpress.
They did not include the flat foam earpad covers. Only included were the ear 
pad cushions.

I then bought a pair on eBay, item # 112534201835 that included the flat foam 
earpad covers.

73,
N2TK, Tony

-Original Message-
From: N2TK, Tony  
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 2:08 PM
To: 'Bob McGraw K4TAX' ; 'elecraft@mailman.qth.net' 

Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Yama CM-500 Replacement

I had bought ear pad replacement covers for KOSS UR20, UR30 and SB40 that fit 
the CM-500 fine. I think they were $9 for a pair. It didn't take long to 
replace. It is a little pain getting the three screws lined up to assemble.
73,
N2TK, Tony

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Bob McGraw K4TAX
Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2019 9:06 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Yama CM-500 Replacement

I suggest another set of CM-500's.They may last 2 years, 5 years or
10 years before they are headed for the trash.   Just look at it as a 
consumable item and that is just the cost of ownership.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 1/8/2019 9:00 PM, James Bennett via Elecraft wrote:
> Sad to say, but my trusty old CM-500 headphones with boom mic finally bit the 
> dust. The ear pads had started rotting away, leaving me with black pieces of 
> gunk on my ears after every on-air session. Tried replacing the pads with a 
> set of Koss pads but they simply were too small and I wound up breaking off 
> the connectors going to the speakers. Life is too short to spend any more 
> time messing with them, so it’s time to look for a replacement.
>
> I’d like to hear from others who are using a similar type of headphone/mic 
> combo - one that is a direct plug-in to the back of a K3 like the Yamaha 
> CM-500. If Yamaha would offer replacement parts to their users I’d consider 
> getting another CM-500, but they don’t and I’m not inclined to buy something 
> again that cannot easily be repaired.
>
> Suggestions…?
>
> Jim / w6JHB
>

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