[Elecraft] [KXPA100] Inventory question - spacers

2014-05-07 Thread Bernie Wills
In several places in the KXPA100 Assembly Manual, including diagrams and the inventory, reference is made to spacers 1/4 (6.4 mm) long. The inventory lists 24 of these in the kit. It seems that the size should be specified as 1/8 (3.2 mm). This is the size I have measured for the spacers

Re: [Elecraft] KX3 - measure the kx3 pa temp while connected to the KXPA100 ? And another question..

2014-05-07 Thread Arnie Grubbs via Elecraft
Hi Jeff, I am not sure that there is a way to look at the KX3 PA temp when you have the 100W PA engaged.  I have turned the external amp off in the config to see the temps of the QRP amp..    It would be nice if the internal amp temp would always be visible as a selection on the display  list

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread Slava Baytalskiy
There are times (just about all the time, really) when i wish that this list would join the 21 century (just like their radios) and get converted to a FORUM (BB, phpnuke, etc..). This is so very archaic... No offense to anyone, the content on here is priceless, goes without saying. But a

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread Pierfrancesco Caci
I disagree wholehartedly. I can easily read this mailing list on any type of client, including my cell phone. I sure don't miss any eye candy, icons, animations or anything else. If a thread doesn't interest me, I hit delete until satisfied. If I need to look up past informations, google and the

[Elecraft] KPA500 wanted

2014-05-07 Thread Michael Walker
Does anyone have a KPA500 with or without the tuner they want to part with? If so, please contact me off list. Mike va3mw __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread Don Wilhelm
If this list moves to a forum format, I for one will bail out - I hate trying to follow something on a forum. I may be in the minority, but I am interested in all the Elecraft products, and I use filters in my email client to sort the list content as I desire at any one particular time (it is

[Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread Slava Baytalskiy
Hello everyone! I'm a proud owner of a new K3/P3. Almost there... Can someone please explain to me the rationale behind the KPA500? Why 500W? Is there a tremendous difference between legal limit and about half of it (which is what i hear KPA500 can do)? I understand the ease of use, how the amp

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread Slava Baytalskiy
I understand, Don. People get used to certain things and stick with them. By the way, all forums have the ability to email you all responses to the topics of interest. Its ok. It is what it is... __ Slava (Sal) B, W2RMS w2...@arrl.net On May 7, 2014, at 8:04 AM, Don Wilhelm

Re: [Elecraft] [KXPA100] Inventory question - spacers

2014-05-07 Thread Don Wilhelm
Bernie, Yes, the length is 1/8 inch (3.2mm). I guess someone had a magnifier when the manual was written :-) . Look for an *errata* coming to the Elecraft website soon! 73, Don W3FPR On 5/7/2014 2:45 AM, Bernie Wills wrote: In several places in the KXPA100 Assembly Manual, including

Re: [Elecraft] KX3 - measure the kx3 pa temp while connected to the KXPA100 ? And another question..

2014-05-07 Thread Jeff Herr
I agree. A friend wanted to try out 6m FM simplex (a new ant) and when I did I ran into heat problems. After a bit of fumbling I realized it was the KX3, not the amp, and that's when it hit me - no temp display. Funny that at this same time all the heat sink chatter comes to a peak. Looks

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread Richard Thorne
Slava, I have the KPA-500 and an AL-1200 amp. The KPA-500 is used most of the time. When your working dx all you want to do is get through one time. The KPA-500 does that perfectly for me. Its so easy to bounce around from band to band chasing dx with the K3/P3/KAT-500/KPA-500 combo as

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread Mike Reublin
I also heartily dislike the clumsy hard to follow un-threaded forum format. I am a member of a number of forums, but only because they don't offer mailing lists. 73, Mike NF4L On 5/7/2014 7:45 AM, Slava Baytalskiy wrote: There are times (just about all the time, really) when i wish that this

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread Brian North
I agree entirely with your comments Slava. '73. Brian 2E0BWQ. Sent from my iPad On 7 May 2014, at 12:58, Pierfrancesco Caci p...@tippete.net wrote: I disagree wholehartedly. I can easily read this mailing list on any type of client, including my cell phone. I sure don't miss

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread Mike Sanders
 Elecraft has done a fantastic job with this mailing list. I also agree with the response below. This email reflector is one of the selling points for Elecraft in general and the help it provides. I know of no other company past or present that has done a job this good on

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread Charlie T, K3ICH
Same here. I like it just the way it is now. 73, Charlie k3ICH - Original Message - From: Brian North br...@chirpytom.plus.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email I agree entirely with your comments

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread David Cole
Hi Slava, I would guess that it is the first 500 watt rule... The first 500 watts is the best 500 watts you will ever use... That and the entire device is a lot cheaper to make, plus smaller... -- Thanks and 73's, For equipment, and software setups and reviews see: www.nk7z.net for MixW

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread AG0N-3055
Is there a tremendous difference between legal limit and about half of it One third, not a half. The KPA is 500W. Legal limit is 1500W. Gary -- http://ag0n.net 3055: http://ag0n.net/irlp/3055 NodeOp Help Page: http://ag0n.net/irlp

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread Phil Hystad
I agree with the disagreement. I have never seen web forum software that is as easy to read and write and filter as e-mail which has ultimate flexibility. Eham has a reasonably OK setup but I still don't like that anywhere close to e-mail. I delete messages about once a year -- Yes, that is a

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread Jim Brown
On 5/7/2014 7:15 AM, AG0N-3055 wrote: One third, not a half. The KPA is 500W. Legal limit is 1500W. Actually, I've been told that in final test at the factory, all KPA500's make at least 600W before they go out the door. Like much of what Elecraft does, the advertised spec is conservative.

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread Dennis Griffin via Elecraft
I share Don's feelings about forums. 73 de Dennis KD7CAC Scottsdale, AZ On May 7, 2014, at 5:04 AM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: If this list moves to a forum format, I for one will bail out - I hate trying to follow something on a forum. I may be in the minority, but I am

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread Stephen Bloom
Yeah, apparently they prototyped a single tube (can't remember what the final was) KPA-1500 years ago ..but never went anywhere with it. I have the KPA500 and an Expert 2k-FA and they both play perfectly with the K3. The KPA500 is about half the weight, a third the price, and much much quieter.

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread Stephen Bloom
I have found this to be true as well. 73 Steve KL7SB -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 6:33 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question On 5/7/2014 7:15 AM,

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread Stephen Bloom
One thought that I have had is breaking the list into two ..one that is *directly* related to K3 operations and K3 technical / support issues and a second that is ...everything else, with very light moderation. I actually enjoy the tangents, to me half the fun is the community here, but obviously

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread Charlie T, K3ICH
About the same as going from a dipole to a two element beam Chas - Original Message - From: AG0N-3055 mcduf...@ag0n.net To: sla...@nullserv.com; elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question Is there a tremendous

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread Walter Underwood
E-mail is not a relic, it is a survivor. Back in the 1980's, I managed 50+ internal discussion groups for HP, along with maintaining the threaded notesfiles newsreader software. I've also managed large mailing lists, and a largish web forum for a product. The webforum was the worst, a constant

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread Phil Hystad
I think the Yahoo groups (or, whatever) are a way of doing this. The forum/e-mail does not have to be endorsed by Elecraft for this kind of dialog. But, I see the justification and value of Eric moderating the Elecraft list to keep focus on the Elecraft products and closely related

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread george fritkin via Elecraft
The difference is .10Log1500/500..   George, W6GF On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 7:37 AM, AG0N-3055 mcduf...@ag0n.net wrote: Is there a tremendous difference between legal limit and about half of it One third, not a half.  The KPA is 500W.  Legal limit

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread d...@lightstream.net
Increasing power from: 100W to 600W provides 7.8dB gain (1.3 S-units) 600W to 1.5KW provides 4 dB gain (0.67 S-unit) ... so that first 600W is huge. Considering the tight integration w/ the K3 and KAT500, and the fact that it also plays nicely w/ other transceivers, I think the KPA500 provides

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread Slava Baytalskiy
Thanks for all the replies, gentlemen! Certainly gives me food for thought. I do want the kpa500. I love building Elecraft kits. One more question: is there a tuner inside that amp? How does it auto-tune? And if so - does that mean that I will have 3 tuners? KAT3, KAT500 and whatever tuner is

[Elecraft] Work us on the way to Dayton and in the Flea -- via Remote (K3R)

2014-05-07 Thread Gerry Hull
Hey Elecraft fans, The theme of the Dayton Hamvention this year is Ham Radio of the future. Remote operation is one of the new aspects of the hobby that has exploded in the past year or so -- and it will certainly grow in the future. Elecraft and Microbit have been doing great things in this

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT
On 5/7/2014 4:45 AM, Slava Baytalskiy wrote: No offense to anyone, the content on here is priceless, goes without saying. But a mailing list??? I'm on several forums that I wish would convert to mailing lists. At least on a mailing list, the original poster has to subscribe, and gets the

Re: [Elecraft] Work us on the way to Dayton and in the Flea -- via Remote (K3R)

2014-05-07 Thread David Cole
Will you guys be at Seapac? -- Thanks and 73's, For equipment, and software setups and reviews see: www.nk7z.net for MixW support see; http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info for Dopplergram information see: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info for MM-SSTV see:

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread EricJ
Absolutely, some things carry over from the 20th Century because they work. There are 21st Century applications that make email lists work even better. Like many here, I filter with Thunderbird. It would work better if everyone used a [product tag] in the Subject line, but it isn't onerous as

Re: [Elecraft] Work us on the way to Dayton and in the Flea -- via Remote (K3R)

2014-05-07 Thread Gerry Hull
I won't, but I'm sure Elecraft will. Gerry Hull, W1VE | Nelson, NH USA | +1-617-CW-SPARK AKA: VE1RM | VY2CDX | VO1CDX | 6Y6C | 8P9RM http://www.yccc.org http://www.yccc.org/ http://www.facebook.com/gerryhull https://plus.google.com/+GerryHull/posts http://www.twitter.com/w1ve On Wed,

Re: [Elecraft] Work us on the way to Dayton and in the Flea -- via Remote (K3R)

2014-05-07 Thread David Cole
Bring some hats/shirts to sell please! :) -- Thanks and 73's, For equipment, and software setups and reviews see: www.nk7z.net for MixW support see; http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info for Dopplergram information see: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info for MM-SSTV see:

[Elecraft] P3 Question - start up

2014-05-07 Thread Jim - KE8G
Hi All, I would like to know if there is a way, when starting up the P3, to have the VFO A marker show up all the way to the left of the screen? Every time I move it to the left, shut it down, then turn it back on, it centers itself. Thanks in advance, Jim - KE8G

Re: [Elecraft] Work us on the way to Dayton and in the Flea -- via Remote (K3R)

2014-05-07 Thread Phil Hystad
Yes, Elecraft will be at SEAPAC but I don't think Eric or Wayne will be there this year. 73, phil, K7PEH On May 7, 2014, at 8:48 AM, David Cole d...@nk7z.net wrote: Bring some hats/shirts to sell please! :) -- Thanks and 73's, For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread Phil Hystad
I'm only posting as this thread is becoming a de facto poll. My choice would be to leave the list alone. Eric KE6US I vote too as well to leave the list alone. No changes needed. I will vote frequently, count each of my votes -- the way we do it up in King County (Seattle area). :-)

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread KQ8M
Count me as keep it as is, please. Very easy for me ti filter out things I don't want with my email client. 73, Tim Herrick, KQ8M k...@kq8m.com AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.no-ip.org User Ports: 23, 7373 with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread K8JHR
As someone said in another thread, adding an amp is like going from a dipole to a small beam. But, remember that adding a better antenna usually costs less and provides a two-way improvement - your amp can boost your transmit signal, but does nothing to boost the received signal. An antenna

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft
Folks. Let's end this thread at this time. It is not appropriate to take up list bw debating forums versus email lists. This thread pops up periodically. Please search the archives for past info on this. We will not be changing to a forum format for many of the reasons listed. Feel free to

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread Nr4c
There is no tuner in the amp. Need for KAT500 depends on your antenna(s). If they are resonant and reasonably wide-band you may get away without it. How does K3 play with your antenna(s)? KAT3 is bypassed with KAT500 Sent from my iPhone ...nr4c. bill On May 7, 2014, at 11:32 AM, Slava

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread Jeff Cathrow
Slava; There is no tuner inside the KPA500---that's why the KAT500 came about; it is optional to the amp. As for it being a must have I would say that depends on your antennas and operating habits. If you have resonant antennas on the bands you operate you can easily get by without the

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread Richard Ferch
W2RMS wrote: One more question: is there a tuner inside that amp? How does it auto-tune? And if so \ - does that mean that I will have 3 tuners? KAT3, KAT500 and whatever tuner is in the \ amp? And also, is KAT500 pretty much a must? There is no antenna tuner inside the KPA500. Auto-tune

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread David Cole
I vote we follow the subject line of this thread, and let the thread die, then beat the ground where it used to be, then set fire to the stick we beat the ground with, then scatter the ashes, so it never comes back again. :) -- Thanks and 73's, For equipment, and software setups and reviews

Re: [Elecraft] K3 With SDR-IQ

2014-05-07 Thread Jim Brown
On 5/6/2014 9:02 AM, Sebastian, W4AS wrote: With the SDR-IQ you can use your mouse to click on a signal, and you can listen on a different frequency on the same band (within the 192 KHz range). You can do that with a K3 -- either using the 2nd VFO or the second RX. Remember that the K3 and

[Elecraft] KX3 for sale

2014-05-07 Thread Michael Walker
I apologize for the cross posts, but I did post this in the KX3 reflector as well. I just bought this, but, as they say, Daddy needs a new pair of shoes. :) For the moment, I would like to sell it in Canada for $1600. However, if it doesn't sell in Canada, I can bring it to Dayton and come up

[Elecraft] Dayton Room

2014-05-07 Thread Jim Brown
I usually share a room with NI6T, but he can't make it this year, so I've taken over his room, and I need someone to share it. I'm checking in Wednesday night, out Sunday morning. I'm a non-smoker. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Remote Operation

2014-05-07 Thread Vic Goncharsky via Elecraft
Dear Charles, Last month I have written the article for Ukrainian internet magazine Radon regarding my method of Remote Opertion using K3 http://radon.doolru.org.ua/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=4492catid=42Itemid=64 It is in Russian, but Google will translate it reasonably well.

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread Fred Smith
After having owned radios X/Y and Z costing from upwards of $6k I switched to a K3 while still owning the top of the list for transceivers. Both are excellent radios in their own respects, except for 2 things the customer support and this very forum for the lack of BS and mostly on topic posts.

Re: [Elecraft] P3 Question - start up

2014-05-07 Thread Jim - KE8G
I was able to answer my own question. I was able to use a macro to change the center freq position. My reasoning for wanting to do this is to be able to remotely use the P3. 73 de Jim - KE8G Jim - KE8G k...@cox.net wrote: Hi All, I would like to know if there is a way, when starting

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread Harry Yingst via Elecraft
All this bantering is getting me wanting the KPA more and more. From: d...@lightstream.net d...@lightstream.net To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question Increasing power from: 100W to 600W

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread Mike Flowers
The K-Line = 500W transceiver when you need one - 73 de Mike, K6MKF, W6NAG, Secretary - NCDXC, IDXG, ADXG, RRC #933, K3-P3-KPA500-KAT500 Addict, Maui -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Harry Yingst via Elecraft Sent: Wednesday, May

[Elecraft] Looking for a KPA100

2014-05-07 Thread Rod Hotz
With all the understandable hoopla over the new KXPA100, I'm wondering if someone might have a KPA100 in a separate K2 cabinet that's become excess baggage and gathering dust? Even though QRP is my preference, I've decided it'd be nice to have a KPA100 in a separate K2 matching cabinet for those

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread Bill W2BLC
Exactly! The K-Line amounts to a fully automated (no tuning or knob twisting) 500 Watt HF station. Last time I saw that was a Halicrafters Tornado. I changed my entire radio desk to create more storage and shelves from the space formerly used by a large tube amp and the large tuner I used

Re: [Elecraft] K3 With SDR-IQ

2014-05-07 Thread Sebastian, W4AS
The point is there are alternatives to purchasing a P3, the VGA option, a second monitor, and a second receiver for the K3. Only the KX3 has an I/Q output which can be used without external hardware. 73 de Sebastian, W4AS On May 07, 2014, at 12:32 PM, Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread Scott Manthe
Yeah, it's pretty easy to forgo that amp and just put up a small beam for 40-80-160... An amp helps you be heard no matter what kind of antenna you have. I worked 220 countries with a home brew G5RV about 15-20 feet off the ground because I had an amp and couldn't put up a better antenna. If

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread Charlie T, K3ICH
Well, if you want a kilowatt station the Icom IC-7600 and PW-1 offer the same functionality with a built-in antenna matching circuit. Curiously, I am getting about 400 watts out of the PW-1 driving it directly with the KX3 at 12 watts out (no ALC). 73, Charlie k3ICH - Original Message

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Question

2014-05-07 Thread Dauer, Edward
I don¹t know what the design rationale was, but I do know why I went that way after looking at KW and 1.5 KW amps from several other manufacturers. Pretty simple - I can run the KPA500 and the K3 from existing 117 vac power in my home. A KW would require either a dedicated 220 line or an

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Question

2014-05-07 Thread Paul Grigorieff
I found that the K-Line set-up (K3, P3, KAT500, and KPA500) fit very nicely into my RV-turned-shack. You can see my operating position in the top picture on my QRZ.com page (click to enlarge). After replacement of a board sandwich early in its life, my KPA has functioned perfectly, and usually

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread Joseph Carter
I just added the KPA500 and the KAT500 last month - first amp I've ever had but so cannot compare but love it! Issue for me was ability to run on 120 volts. Great fun to assemble both and as mentioned nice compact grouping / size for my space constraints. Joe, w9jc On May 7, 2014, at 6:10 PM,

[Elecraft] K3/100 and P3/SVGA

2014-05-07 Thread Tim Cook
They have been sold Thanks Tim NZ8J __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net

[Elecraft] [KXPA100] Inventory question - spacers

2014-05-07 Thread Bernie Wills
Thanks, Don. The labelling error probably has not bothered anyone else but I like to have the procedure clear before getting in too deep. I have built the amp since my posting yesterday and on the bench it is working nicely into a dummy load. Having the KXPA Utility running on the computer

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread HREFAB
Can we close this thread? It has gone so far off topic from my original question as to be useless other than taking up bandwidth. Thanks for the first couple of replies which at least attempted to address my question. Jim Harvey / KD2FIP -- View this message in context:

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread Phil Wheeler
Same here re adding the KPA500/KAT500. I did have an Ameriton AL-811H, and still do -- but have not fired it up since 2002. Worked fine, but not easy to use since it needed re-tuned with significant QSY. So mainly I did fine with my K2/100 and it was great until replaced by the greater K3!

[Elecraft] OT - Automotive Radars - operation in the 76-81GHz

2014-05-07 Thread Johnny Siu
  Hello Group , It is definitely Off Topic.  You may wish to press 'DEL' now. Local Hong Kong Telecom Authority is now seeking views of automotive radars operating in the 76-81GHz.  There are existing amateur radio bands within 76-81GHz.   Regrettably, I have never had any experience in

Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 question

2014-05-07 Thread Slava Baytalskiy
Ok, fine. You guys convinced me. I'm getting KPA500/KAT500 over at Dayton next week. Elecraft guys: here i come! __ Slava (Sal) B, W2RMS w2...@arrl.net On May 7, 2014, at 10:14 PM, Phil Wheeler w...@socal.rr.com wrote: Same here re adding the KPA500/KAT500. I did have an

[Elecraft] P3/SVGA monitor resolution question

2014-05-07 Thread Slava Baytalskiy
Hi everyone! I just got this new Dell LCD monitor specifically for the P3/SVGA. Its a 19.1 inch, 16:9 monitor. However, its maximum resolution seems to be 1366x768 at 60Hz. So the only res i can use on the P3 is 1280x1024. Any way to include the monitor's res in the SVGA firmware, so it can

Re: [Elecraft] Limit topics in email

2014-05-07 Thread Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft
Closed! :-) 73, Eric elecraft.com _..._ On May 7, 2014, at 7:03 PM, HREFAB j...@hre.com wrote: Can we close this thread? It has gone so far off topic from my original question as to be useless other than taking up bandwidth. Thanks for the first couple of replies which at least attempted