Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Kunde, Brian Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 1:04 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification This begs the question, if certification to the electrical codes is all that is required, can I get a certification for only th

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

: Monday, January 09, 2012 3:42 PM To: ri...@ieee.org; 'John Woodgate'; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification Many layers of government...municipal, county, state... -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

Many layers of government...municipal, county, state... -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Richard Nute Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 3:34 PM To: 'John Woodgate'; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL cer

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

> >Under electrical codes, NRTL certification is NOT > >one-size-fits-all. > >  > But is this efficient and desirable? No, to both. Electrical codes are administered by governments... - This message is from the IEEE Product Safet

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

Hello Rich,   My point exactly about what products are targeted. We have been through these discussions many times in the past and the answer always comes up that your product specific market environment drives third party certification.   Best re

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

In message , dated Mon, 9 Jan 2012, Richard Nute writes: Under electrical codes, NRTL certification is NOT one-size-fits-all.   But is this efficient and desirable? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, E

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

Hi Bill: State laws haven't cleaned up their text in all cases, and quite often, the rhetoric used to describe safety approvals, still uses "UL" when NRTL is meant. No. I have been trying to say that "NRTL" is not universal certification that is accepted in all jurisdictions. (UL is acce

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

Hi Ron: It appears that most of these laws are targeted at electrical consumer products used in the home, not always a business or place of work. Therefore, this goes to show that many product families are not identified in these laws and they are not mandated to be NRTL listed unless you e

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

From: Bill Owsley [mailto:wdows...@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 07:46 > UL used to have to have a near monopoly and was a non-profit company to do > this. > Then the Federal law changed to implement the NRTL program so that there > are a number of > competitors This misses the mark.

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

Of John Cotman Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 2:17 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification As a European familiar with the CE marking system and the resultant free market for goods across more than 30 countries, this debate has left me utterly amazed! Ju

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

In message , dated Mon, 9 Jan 2012, "Morse, William" writes: The market segment and location of use may also add requirements based on customer needs, for example Assisted Living Facilities in New Jersey. (and yes the wording of it leaves a lot to be desired) It doesn't even say it has to

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

In message <002e01cccee4$78059980$6810cc80$@wellman.com>, dated Mon, 9 Jan 2012, Ron Wellman writes: unless you expect to use a Time of Flight Mass Spectrometer in your kitchen or living room Doesn't everyone? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Wood

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

Hi John: O.K. Rich maybe we are saying the same thing? My point was an NRTL mark is basically required to sell electronic product in some states. Yes, an NRTL mark almost always satisfies both the employer's compliance with OSHA and the local AHJ. This is the way most of us do business.

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

O.K. Rich maybe we are saying the same thing? My point was an NRTL mark is basically required to sell electronic product in some states. From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 2:36 PM To: Tyra, John; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Cc: peterh...@aol.com Subject: RE:

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

Hi John: I don't understand your comment. Here is what I said: "... some (but not all) AHJs defer to the NRTL scheme for approval of labs that can issue safety certifications that can be accepted. "Most NRTLs are accepted by most AHJs." Yes, some AHJs (not necessarily states

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

As other have mentioned there is another route you can go other than NRTL listing in that you can have a field evaluation of a product but that is only really financially feasible for high cost low production specialty equipment. It may work for certain laboratory equipment but again it would ha

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

It is a CEA members document so I cannot post it. From: Ron Wellman [mailto:rwell...@wellman.com] Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 12:59 PM To: Tyra, John; ri...@ieee.org; 'emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org' Cc: peterh...@aol.com Subject: RE: Mandatory NRTL certification Post the document. From: emc-p...

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

Post the document. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Tyra, John Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 9:31 AM To: 'ri...@ieee.org'; emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Cc: peterh...@aol.com Subject: RE: Mandatory NRTL certification Sorry Rich but I have to disagree as the CEA

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

I refer you to what Rich Nute posted. From: Tyra, John [mailto:john_t...@bose.com] Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 9:24 AM To: 'Ron Wellman'; 'peterh...@aol.com'; 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG' Subject: RE: Mandatory NRTL certification As I mentioned in my previous posts the laws in 16 State

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

In some of the States it specifies an NRTL or lab found to be acceptable by the State Authorities -Original Message- From: Lg [mailto:wdows...@yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 12:46 PM To: Tyra, John; 'ri...@ieee.org'; emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Cc: peterh...@aol.com Subject: RE

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

A number states have adopted OSHA rules as their own, often withs mods. Sent from my MetroPCS Wireless Phone "Tyra, John" wrote: >Sorry Rich but I have to disagree as the CEA document I have shows State laws >which specifically call out an NRTL being mandatory to distribute electronic >equipme

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

Sorry Rich but I have to disagree as the CEA document I have shows State laws which specifically call out an NRTL being mandatory to distribute electronic equipment into those States... From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Richard Nute Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

As I mentioned in my previous posts the laws in 16 States do not specify any exemptions for the type of equipment so based on that I believe that test, measurement and laboratory would need to comply... there are 4 other States which specifically specify consumer products so based on th

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

The way the term "NRTL" has been used here is mostly wrong. I want to clarify what the term "NRTL" means. In the U.S.A., NRTL certification is NOT mandatory. Safety certification is NOT mandatory. The U.S.A. has two sets of drivers for safety certification of electrical products: 1)

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL Certification

I was unaware that UL certifications had a 1 year shelf life. That statement from UL devalues UL certification in a big way. At a previous employer, we had an environmental chamber moved to a building that had been renovated before we moved in. The AHJ red tagged the chamber, because it lacked

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

hilarious amusing. Regards, Peter L. Tarver *From:* Morse, William [mailto:william.mo...@careinnovations.com] *Sent:* Friday, January 06, 2012 09:23 *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification "interesting" aspects of this

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL Certification

UL has two different services. Field Inspection is to look at equipment that has a Listing report, but left the factory without being UL marked. Field Inspection is done by an inspector wh

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

There is also the chance that the very expensive one-off piece equipment may be damaged by the testing and disassembly it is subjected to in a field inspection. Extra cost, time, and unsatisfied customer... Brian Ceresney, CTech. Regulatory Team Lead, Delta-Q Technologies Corp. 3755 Willingdon

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

For Consumer products I see your point, but what about test, measurement, and laboratory equipment? These products are usually sold business to business and it's really up to the Customer to decide if NRTL is required for the sale. Best regards, Ron Wellman From: Tyra, John [mailto:john_t.

[PSES] Mandatory NRTL Certification

Ted, In an unrelated instance, one of my colleagues just had an occasion today to discuss field evaluations with UL and was informed that they won't perform field evaluations on equipment older than one year nor if the equipment does not have a UL report. Good day, Richard Pittenger Agency App

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

In message soft.com>, dated Fri, 6 Jan 2012, Ted Eckert writes: I?ve worked with low-volume and custom built-in equipment, and I would recommend against having a field evaluation done by the AHJ. It is an option, but it can be a very risky option. I have also been advised of that by US col

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

John; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification "interesting" aspects of this topic 1) Authorities Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) that has adopted the National Electrical Code (NEC) also place a requirement for an NRTL mark on a device. So while

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

2] Bill Opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of my employer, use at your own risk From: "Tyra, John" mailto:john_t...@bose.com>> Reply-To: "Tyra, John" mailto:john_t...@bose.com>> Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 09:34:16 -0500 To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

I don't see where companies really have much of a choice as this is a legal requirement in 20 States for Consumer products From: Ron Wellman [mailto:rwell...@wellman.com] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 10:27 AM To: Tyra, John; peterh...@aol.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Mandatory N

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

regular retailers. Would I be correct to say that same applies? Thank you again Peter -Original Message- From: jral...@productsafetyinc.com To: Ron Wellman ; EMC-PSTC Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 7:54 am Subject: RE: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification Hi, Kevin (from OSHA) thank you very

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

this message in error, please do not read it. Please immediately reply to sender that you have received this message in error. Then permanently delete all copies of the message. Thank you. From: Ron Wellman [mailto:rwell...@wellman.com] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 9:27 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSE

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

Hi all, Regardless of the OSHA requirements already addressed within this list, don't lose sight of the fact that there's "The Law of Economics" at play here as well. I don't believe any major retailer (Walmart, Target, K-Mart, Sears, etc.) will accept electrical/electronic products without NR

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

John, would you happen to have a link to that survey? Ian Schroeder Regulatory Compliance Engineer Echostar Technologies L.L.C. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Tyra, John Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 7:34 AM To: 'Ron Wellman'; 'pet

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

This question comes up about every two years and what it boils down to is a catch 22. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. In my opinion, it is better to do regardless of how unbalanced these requirements are within the United States. As long as you budget for it and your management understands t

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

While there are no Federal laws requiring NRTL certification and marking of electronic products there are laws in 16 States which require an NRTL mark for mains connected electronic products...and laws in 4 other States which specify consumer products only. CEA commissioned a State survey, which

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

Hi Peter, While the NRTL program and NRTL approval is used by a variety of local AHJs, employers and retailers, the program was developed by OSHA for OSHA's purposes. OSHA requires certain types of equipment (http://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/prodcatg.html) to be approved by an NRTL. Electrical

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

NRTL certification/listing is not mandatory for product Manufacturers. This is a Customer driven requirement so your Customers can comply with local OSHA requirements. If you don't want to list or certify your product that's really a Marketing call. Also, it is my experience that most large Compani

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

in a word, (actually an acronym)  it is the AHJ's. From: "Huang, Tim" To: "peterh...@aol.com" ; "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2012 10:46 PM Subject: RE: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification Me

Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

n all, they are for safe for human for associated electronic device. Regards Tim From: peterh...@aol.com [mailto:peterh...@aol.com] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 9:41 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification Hello All, Today a colleague asked me a question

[PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

Hello All, Today a colleague asked me a question as to why do we need NRTL certification such as UL or CSA on any product in the US. I thought this was a good and logical question and the way I answered it was that to the best of my knowledge, OSHA requires that any products that is used in wo