Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 31 October 2016 22:22:16 Gregg Eshelman wrote:

> I'd like to find some left handed digital calipers as low priced as
> the ones Harbor Freight sells. They're plenty good enough, especially
> the latest one they have which reads in inches, millimeters and inch
> fractions to 1/128th. Surprising that left handed calipers aren't as
> common as the right handed ones, given that right handed ones are a
> PITA to use on lathes, especially close to the chuck.

Truer words have not been spoken recently.  Major PIMA, that.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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[Emc-users] 7i90HD programming

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings everybody;

Surveying my system, thinking I can probably program this 7i90HD right on 
this machine from its unused parport, I go traipsing into:
/lib/modules/3.16.0-0.bpo.4-amd64/kernel/drivers/spi, and find I have a 
choice of 3:

spi-bitbang.ko  spi-butterfly.ko  spi-lm70llp.ko

Now, since there is not a switch or jumper on the 7i90HD to turn its 26 
pin port from one to the other modes, and there is not a discussion of 
it in the 7i90HD pdf, I have to assume two things:

1. The 7i90HD is smart enough to tell whats driving it, and switch itself 
accordingly.

2. That SPI can be done over an EPP parport.

So that leaves me with a 3 choice fork in the road.

Is linux smart enough that it will bitch constructively if I try to 
modprobe the wrong one? spi-bitbang.ko sounds the most promising, but I 
don't want to kill the port, or any kittens playing.

Or is this pristine dirt I am about to walk on?

modprobe spi-bitbang had no errors, and it shows up in an lsmod as not 
linked to anything else. I would have assumed it would have grabbed 
parport, but I rmmod'd that whole lp,etc chain without effecting it or 
generating a fuss.

Obviously I do not have a good grasp of what the heck it is that I'm 
trying to do.

Tutorials, links to tutorials, anybody?

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Gregg Eshelman]

Or how about some company making a digital caliper with a display on both 
sides, so it can be read no matter which way around you have to use it to get 
at what you need to measure?
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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Gregg Eshelman]

I'd like to find some left handed digital calipers as low priced as the ones 
Harbor Freight sells. They're plenty good enough, especially the latest one 
they have which reads in inches, millimeters and inch fractions to 1/128th.
Surprising that left handed calipers aren't as common as the right handed ones, 
given that right handed ones are a PITA to use on lathes, especially close to 
the chuck.
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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 31 October 2016 21:21:32 Chris Albertson wrote:

> Drill a tiny hole on the end of the bar.  Fits over a small nail.
>
Chuckle.  Heck of a good idea Chris, you should have suggested that about 
18 months ago, and it might still be working... ;)  OTOH, I didn't post 
about it 18 months ago.  Me a Bad Dog. :)

>
>
> Thats a good price for a 12 incher. But while the length is nice, its
> > also a PITA because there's no place to lay it down that it can't
> > slide off of.  Last time it giggled off, it landed face down on
> > another item on the floor and shattered the display glass. I liked
> > the one I got from Grizzly when I stopped at the PA store and bought
> > the G0704.  Nice tool, but needs a hangup hook to prevent the giggle
> > off the chip table falls.
> >
> > --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Chris Albertson]

Drill a tiny hole on the end of the bar.  Fits over a small nail.



Thats a good price for a 12 incher. But while the length is nice, its
> also a PITA because there's no place to lay it down that it can't slide
> off of.  Last time it giggled off, it landed face down on another item
> on the floor and shattered the display glass. I liked the one I got from
> Grizzly when I stopped at the PA store and bought the G0704.  Nice tool,
> but needs a hangup hook to prevent the giggle off the chip table falls.
>
> --

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Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [Emc-users] Raspi, 7i90HD and such stuff...

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 31 October 2016 18:55:32 W. Martinjak wrote:

> Good Morning Gene,
>
> >> BTW: This is a pure linuxcnc project except the kernel.
> >> Please download the kernel and the kernel-header with this links:
> >>
> >> http://deb.machinekit.io/debian/pool/main/l/linux-rt/linux-image-rp
> >>i2- rt_4.4.4-rt9-v7+-7_armhf.deb
> >> http://deb.machinekit.io/debian/pool/main/l/linux-rt/linux-headers-
> >>rpi 2-rt_4.4.4-rt9-v7+-7_armhf.deb
> >
> > I'd assume these two lines go in /etc/apt/sources.list?  Not done
> > yet.
>
> No I would not.
> I hope sometime linuxcnc can provide it.
>
> But you can add:
>
> deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ jessie master-sim
> deb-src http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ jessie master-sim
>
> and then executing
>
> sudo apt-key adv --keyserver hkp://keys.gnupg.net --recv-key E0EE663E
> sudo apt update
>
sudo apt upgrade

Seemed to do ok. And linuxcnc ran a g76 routine in the sim just fine.

But I am concerned, this r-pi 3 isn't stable since putting it on the RT 
core, I have had 4 crashes already.
> >> there is a /boot/config.txt
> >>
> >> in this file change or add the line:
> >>
> >> kernel=kernel_rt-4.4.4-rt9-v7+.img
> >
> > There is no similar line in that file now.
>
> Yes therefore I wrote "change OR add". :)
>
> btw:
> #If it is not there, add this to the config.txt
>
> enable_uart=1
> force_turbo=1 #Voids warranty!
> temp_limit=75 #Will throttle to default clock speed if hit.
> gpu_mem=128
>
> and please order something like this:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Addicore-Raspberry-Heatsink-Aluminum-Sinks/dp/B
>00HPQGTI4
>
> its nesessary with the settings above.
>
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> Cheers Matsche


Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: [Emc-users] Raspi, 7i90HD and such stuff...

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 31 October 2016 18:08:17 W. Martinjak wrote:

> Hello Gene,
>
> On 2016-10-31 18:27, W. Martinjak wrote:
> > enable_uart=1
> > force_turbo=1 #Voids warranty!
> > temp_limit=75 #Will throttle to default clock speed if hit.
> > gpu_mem=128
>
> and please order something like this:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Addicore-Raspberry-Heatsink-Aluminum-Sinks/dp/B
>00HPQGTI4
>
> its nesessary with the settings above.
>
> Cheers Matsche

The kit I bought, from canakit.com  came with 1 of each of those 2 sizes 
and I stuck them on the two chips on top of the board. I wouldn't call 
either of the 3 running too hot right now.

My drive belts arrived today, so I now have those installed, so now its a 
rat race to get this kit and the 7i90HD mounted in that box, some cable 
track on the back of the bed, lay some conduit for cable protection and 
bring this thing to life.

But I had a spell of poor balance etc that set in while I was cogitating 
how to hang the cable chain, so I quit that, and its T & T night 
(halloween) locally, so kids of all sizes and ages are out in force, 
blocking the streets. But I went out and got us a pan of Chinese for 
dinner, took 15 milligrams of warfarin when I got back, checked my sugar 
at 111 so low sugar wasn't it.  I might be a bit better now. But not 
100% yet.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[andy pugh]

On 31 October 2016 at 22:12, Kirk Wallace  wrote:
> What happens when the calipers are in mm mode?

It transitioned at the mm equivalent. (5.08)

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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Kirk Wallace]

On 10/31/2016 01:50 PM, Dave Cole wrote:
> On 10/31/2016 11:23 AM, andy pugh wrote:
>> Anyway, the point of my initial email seems to have rather been
>> missed: It appears that the calipers are internaly imperial rather
>> than metric, because the measurement was breaking down on exact tenths
>> of  inches readings.
>
> No miss and no surprise here. We in the US are ahead of the game.
> Everyone else will catch up one of these days.  ;-)
>
> Actually, I think it is more likely that there is a bug in the caliper
> software.  Or perhaps their technology is simply really old?
>
> Dave

It could be that it is a display related thing. Maybe the number of 
active segments or a particular segment draws extra current and causes 
wonkiness (I'm a little disappointed it's a real word, 
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wonkiness).

What happens when the calipers are in mm mode?


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Re: [Emc-users] Raspi, 7i90HD and such stuff...

[W. Martinjak]

Hello Gene,

On 2016-10-31 18:27, W. Martinjak wrote:
> enable_uart=1
> force_turbo=1 #Voids warranty!
> temp_limit=75 #Will throttle to default clock speed if hit.
> gpu_mem=128

and please order something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Addicore-Raspberry-Heatsink-Aluminum-Sinks/dp/B00HPQGTI4

its nesessary with the settings above.

Cheers Matsche

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nur ihre Gegner sterben nach und nach"

Max Planck


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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Dave Cole]

On 10/31/2016 11:23 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> Anyway, the point of my initial email seems to have rather been
> missed: It appears that the calipers are internaly imperial rather
> than metric, because the measurement was breaking down on exact tenths
> of  inches readings.

No miss and no surprise here. We in the US are ahead of the game.  
Everyone else will catch up one of these days.  ;-)

Actually, I think it is more likely that there is a bug in the caliper 
software.  Or perhaps their technology is simply really old?

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[John Kasunich]

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016, at 02:42 PM, John Kasunich wrote:
> 
> This picture is under 50K, hopefully nobody minds.

LOL, apparently the list software minds, and stripped it out.
http://www.shars.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/540x/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/3/0/303-1340b.jpg


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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[John Kasunich]

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016, at 02:37 PM, John Kasunich wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016, at 01:15 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Monday 31 October 2016 10:44:33 John Kasunich wrote:
>
> > > That's why I don't own a digital caliper.  Mine all have dials
> > >
> > > I even have a couple (one at work, one at home) 6" dual-needle
> > > dial
> > > calipers that read in metric and inches.
> >
> > Now thats getting seriously kewl John. :) But I'd also bet they
> > weren't
> > cheap. :(
> >
>
> Actually they were under $30.  Shars brand, china made.  But they
> work fine.
> http://www.shars.com/products/measuring/caliper/6-dual-reading-inch-metric-dial-caliper
>
This picture is under 50K, hopefully nobody minds.

It is reading 0.298" and 7.57mm


 



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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[John Kasunich]

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016, at 01:15 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Monday 31 October 2016 10:44:33 John Kasunich wrote:

> > That's why I don't own a digital caliper.  Mine all have dials 
> >
> > I even have a couple (one at work, one at home) 6" dual-needle dial
> > calipers that read in metric and inches.
> 
> Now thats getting seriously kewl John. :) But I'd also bet they weren't 
> cheap. :(
> 

Actually they were under $30.  Shars brand, china made.  But they work fine.
http://www.shars.com/products/measuring/caliper/6-dual-reading-inch-metric-dial-caliper

One thing I learned from experience - if you drop them and the pinion jumps a 
tooth on the rack, you aren't going to be able to get both needles pointing at 
zero again by disengaging and re-engaging the pinion.  It seems like it can go 
together a thousand ways and only one way has both needles aligned.

I took off the bezel, carefully popped off both needles, and pressed them back 
on in the proper orientation.

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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[dannym]

I tried to buy a new pair from Harbor Freight awhile back and they were just 
reading wrong.  IIRC jumped around missing large portions of travel.

Went back to exchange and thought to check first- ALL the ones on the shelf 
read wrong.  

Best results, Neiko calipers seem to be of consistent quality, yet cheap. 
Amazon.com

Danny

 andy pugh  wrote: 
> My little digital caliper is playing up. It could just be a low
battery, it has been flashing the LCD for at least a year.
(As an aside, why do they run normally for about a week then flash the
display for about a year?)
Anyway, moving the slider very slowly it goes from 0.3995" straight to
1.200", then acts a bit random until it switches from 1,499 to a
(correct) 0.800"
Which surprised me, I had assumed that the basic units of the scale
were metric.

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Re: [Emc-users] Raspi, 7i90HD and such stuff...

[Gene Heskett]

sent 2nd copy to list
On Monday 31 October 2016 08:39:15 W. Martinjak wrote:

> On 2016-10-31 12:31, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Couldn't get to sleep yet, shoulder too sore. All of the above has
> > been done.  And I managed to lockup the lathe sim once, and
> > something that doesn't want to advertise enough to show in the htop
> > display, is banging on the sd card at nominally 1 second intervals
> > now.  Is this a concern? And how do I shut down apache2? I don't
> > think it should be needed and its eating 224 megs of dram.
>
> Just remove it with:
>
>  apt remove apache2

Done. Down to 24 processes when at rest and still no clue about whats 
banging on the u-sd card once a second.
>
> > Thank you Matsche.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett

Then I cobbled up an sshfs mount to TLM, and copied all the files in the 
linuxcnc/nc_files to the ~/gene/linuxcnc directory here, but then 
recalled that was the u-sd that would be taking a beating with all that 
file editing, so I made a linuxcnc/R-Pi_ncfiles directory, and then 
mounted that to an R-Pi_nc_files directory on this machine with this 1 
line script, the contents of which are:

sshfs 
g...@coyote.coyote.den:/home/gene/linuxcnc/R-Pi_nc_files/ 
/home/gene/linuxcnc/R-Pi_nc_files

move some ssh keys and I will not have to enter my password.
I put one empty file named it_worked with touch in that R-Pi_nc_files 
directory so is would not be an empty dir.  So now, on the pi, I can do 
an ls on this new linked directory and get:

gene@raspberrypi:~/linuxcnc $ ls R-Pi_nc_files/
it_worked

Any file I need from the original nc_files I just copied over, can be
copied to this mount and be stored on rotating media, not the u-sd.

As you can see, sshfs beats NFS like a white mouthed mule in terms of its
versatility.

So now, I believe I am waiting on the jumper cables to link it up with 
the 7i90HD.

I should fix the cups install, which will make me put apache2 back in,
so I can print from the pi. Or maybe lpoptions can do that too. And bite
the bullet and get geany installed so I've a common editor.

Have I missed anything?

Thanks everybody.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Re: [Emc-users] Raspi, 7i90HD and such stuff...

[W. Martinjak]

On 2016-10-31 03:29, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 30 October 2016 19:55:34 W. Martinjak wrote:
>
>> Hello Gene,

Good Morning Gene,


>> BTW: This is a pure linuxcnc project except the kernel.
>> Please download the kernel and the kernel-header with this links:
>>
>> http://deb.machinekit.io/debian/pool/main/l/linux-rt/linux-image-rpi2-
>> rt_4.4.4-rt9-v7+-7_armhf.deb
>> http://deb.machinekit.io/debian/pool/main/l/linux-rt/linux-headers-rpi
>> 2-rt_4.4.4-rt9-v7+-7_armhf.deb
>>
> I'd assume these two lines go in /etc/apt/sources.list?  Not done yet.  


No I would not.
I hope sometime linuxcnc can provide it.

But you can add:

deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ jessie master-sim
deb-src http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ jessie master-sim

and then executing

sudo apt-key adv --keyserver hkp://keys.gnupg.net --recv-key E0EE663E
sudo apt update


>> there is a /boot/config.txt
>>
>> in this file change or add the line:
>>
>> kernel=kernel_rt-4.4.4-rt9-v7+.img
> There is no similar line in that file now.

Yes therefore I wrote "change OR add". :)

btw:
#If it is not there, add this to the config.txt

enable_uart=1
force_turbo=1 #Voids warranty!
temp_limit=75 #Will throttle to default clock speed if hit.
gpu_mem=128


>>
>> Cheers Matsche
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

Cheers Matsche


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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 31 October 2016 10:44:33 John Kasunich wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016, at 07:28 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> > My little digital caliper is playing up. It could just be a low
> > battery, it has been flashing the LCD for at least a year.
> > (As an aside, why do they run normally for about a week then flash
> > the display for about a year?)
> > Anyway, moving the slider very slowly it goes from 0.3995" straight
> > to 1.200", then acts a bit random until it switches from 1,499 to a
> > (correct) 0.800"
>
> That's why I don't own a digital caliper.  Mine all have dials (except
> the 36" Starrett vernier) and I've never had a dead battery in 17
> years.
>
> I even have a couple (one at work, one at home) 6" dual-needle dial
> calipers that read in metric and inches.

Now thats getting seriously kewl John. :) But I'd also bet they weren't 
cheap. :(

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 31 October 2016 11:23:38 andy pugh wrote:

> On 31 October 2016 at 14:44, John Kasunich  
wrote:
> > That's why I don't own a digital caliper.  Mine all have dials
> > (except the 36" Starrett vernier) and I've never had a dead battery
> > in 17 years.
>
> There are games that you can play with the resettable zero and dual
> units of a digital that you can't with a dial caliper.
>
> For example, if making metric parts on an imperial lathe: Set the
> caliper to the metric size, zero it, switch to imperial. You now have
> an automatic calculation of how many thou above or below the nominal
> size you are, with no need for any mental arithmetic.
>
> Anyway, the point of my initial email seems to have rather been
> missed: It appears that the calipers are internaly imperial rather
> than metric, because the measurement was breaking down on exact tenths
> of  inches readings. A new battery has restored the caliper to
> function, but what I was remarking on was that the exact failure mode
> told me something interesting.

And that is indeed interesting.  Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Jon Elson]

On 10/31/2016 06:28 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> My little digital caliper is playing up. It could just be a low
> battery, it has been flashing the LCD for at least a year.
> (As an aside, why do they run normally for about a week then flash the
> display for about a year?)
> Anyway, moving the slider very slowly it goes from 0.3995" straight to
> 1.200", then acts a bit random until it switches from 1,499 to a
> (correct) 0.800"
> Which surprised me, I had assumed that the basic units of the scale
> were metric.
>
You may need to clean the scale, or even the read head.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Ken Strauss]

They only micrometer that I've bought from them is a 2-3 inside (see
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-3-x0-001-Inside-Micrometer-in-Fitted-Case-Satin-Ch
rome-Finished-EG00-3223-/16152374 ). Perhaps it isn't quite as nice as
my 1-2 Starret or 0.2-1 Mitutoyo but it operates smoothly, is accurate and
much cheaper than the alternative; I have no complaints and would buy it
again. That said, a 0-1 micrometer is probably my most used measuring tool
so I wouldn't skimp. Get a Mitutoyo digital one if you can afford it and you
won't regret it. If you prefer a mechanical one, how about
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Moore-Wright-UK-1965B-0-1-MICROMETER-0001-grad-C
arbide-Faces-042C-/17319179 from another Canadian supplier?
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Johnsen [mailto:m...@ijohnsen.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 11:45 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 7:08 AM, Ken Strauss 
> wrote:
>
> > While we're discussing calipers, I've been pretty happy with the ones
> > from Accusize. They show large decimal digits plus fractions and I
> > rather like the yellow display. Not absolute and not IP67 but they
> > feel about as nice as my Mitutoyo ones. They also have left handed
> > calipers. Accusize is Canadian so there are no shipping hassles for
> > me. Everything that they sell is Chinese but most is at the better end
> > of the import quality scale.
> > See
> > http://www.ebay.ca/itm/6-Full-Screen-Yellow-LCD-Elec-
> > Digital-Caliper-Inch-mm
> > -Fractional-1110-1818-/152032188231
> >
> >
> > Those accusize look like a nice low cost alternative to the real
> > measuring
> tools.  Any experience with their Micrometers?  I could use a micrometer.
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-1-x-0-0001-Ultra-Precision-Outside-Micrometer-
> in-Fitted-Box-EG00-0001-/161619968544
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>

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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Eric Keller]

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 11:23 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
> Anyway, the point of my initial email seems to have rather been
> missed: It appears that the calipers are internaly imperial rather
> than metric, because the measurement was breaking down on exact tenths
> of  inches readings. A new battery has restored the caliper to
> function, but what I was remarking on was that the exact failure mode
> told me something interesting.

You occasionally see that.  I don't remember the context, but I
noticed some measuring device that was obviously based on imperial
units rather than the more common metric.  Optical scales have been
metric for some time, at least for the most part. But there isn't any
reason that should be true, they print them.

Now, if only someone would start importing all-metric scales (rulers)
into the U.S. instead of the hateful metric/imperial mixed unit scales
that would be great.

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[Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Mark Johnsen]

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 7:08 AM, Ken Strauss 
wrote:

> While we're discussing calipers, I've been pretty happy with the ones from
> Accusize. They show large decimal digits plus fractions and I rather like
> the yellow display. Not absolute and not IP67 but they feel about as nice
> as
> my Mitutoyo ones. They also have left handed calipers. Accusize is Canadian
> so there are no shipping hassles for me. Everything that they sell is
> Chinese but most is at the better end of the import quality scale.
> See
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/6-Full-Screen-Yellow-LCD-Elec-
> Digital-Caliper-Inch-mm
> -Fractional-1110-1818-/152032188231
>
>
> Those accusize look like a nice low cost alternative to the real measuring
tools.  Any experience with their Micrometers?  I could use a micrometer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-1-x-0-0001-Ultra-Precision-Outside-Micrometer-in-Fitted-Box-EG00-0001-/161619968544

Thanks,
Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[andy pugh]

On 31 October 2016 at 14:44, John Kasunich  wrote:
> That's why I don't own a digital caliper.  Mine all have dials (except the
> 36" Starrett vernier) and I've never had a dead battery in 17 years.

There are games that you can play with the resettable zero and dual
units of a digital that you can't with a dial caliper.

For example, if making metric parts on an imperial lathe: Set the
caliper to the metric size, zero it, switch to imperial. You now have
an automatic calculation of how many thou above or below the nominal
size you are, with no need for any mental arithmetic.

Anyway, the point of my initial email seems to have rather been
missed: It appears that the calipers are internaly imperial rather
than metric, because the measurement was breaking down on exact tenths
of  inches readings. A new battery has restored the caliper to
function, but what I was remarking on was that the exact failure mode
told me something interesting.

-- 
atp
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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Todd Zuercher]

Digital and mechanical calipers each have they're place.  

I about came unglued one time I caught a shop worker swinging a dial caliper 
like a hatchet, sticking the points into a piece of wood.  I've found that 
cheap digital calipers hold up better to such abuse. (and are easier on the 
wallet when they don't)
 
- Original Message -
From: "John Kasunich" 
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 10:44:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers


On Mon, Oct 31, 2016, at 07:28 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> My little digital caliper is playing up. It could just be a low
> battery, it has been flashing the LCD for at least a year.
> (As an aside, why do they run normally for about a week then flash the
> display for about a year?)
> Anyway, moving the slider very slowly it goes from 0.3995" straight to
> 1.200", then acts a bit random until it switches from 1,499 to a
> (correct) 0.800"

That's why I don't own a digital caliper.  Mine all have dials (except the
36" Starrett vernier) and I've never had a dead battery in 17 years.

I even have a couple (one at work, one at home) 6" dual-needle dial 
calipers that read in metric and inches.

-- 
  John Kasunich
  jmkasun...@fastmail.fm

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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[John Kasunich]

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016, at 07:28 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> My little digital caliper is playing up. It could just be a low
> battery, it has been flashing the LCD for at least a year.
> (As an aside, why do they run normally for about a week then flash the
> display for about a year?)
> Anyway, moving the slider very slowly it goes from 0.3995" straight to
> 1.200", then acts a bit random until it switches from 1,499 to a
> (correct) 0.800"

That's why I don't own a digital caliper.  Mine all have dials (except the
36" Starrett vernier) and I've never had a dead battery in 17 years.

I even have a couple (one at work, one at home) 6" dual-needle dial 
calipers that read in metric and inches.

-- 
  John Kasunich
  jmkasun...@fastmail.fm

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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Bruce Layne]

I think it's a bit problematic that the battery industry offers 
different battery chemistries with similar but different voltages in 
identical form factors, but that's not the problem I was describing.

The *REAL* problem is unscrupulous Chinese manufacturers who copy 
another company's packaging, including their trademarked logo, and sell 
a cheap and poorly made leaky alkaline battery as a name brand silver 
oxide battery.



On 10/31/2016 09:50 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> The difference is between the SR44 and the LR44.
> SR44 is Silver oxide and has a higher base voltage, than the
> zinc/manganese LR44 and is the one that the digital calipers are
> designed for.
> LR44 is cheaper, but lower-voltage and will flash sooner. Possibluy
> immediately.
>
> Many of the cheap calipers come with an LR44 dspite really needing the SR44.
>


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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Ken Strauss]

While we're discussing calipers, I've been pretty happy with the ones from
Accusize. They show large decimal digits plus fractions and I rather like
the yellow display. Not absolute and not IP67 but they feel about as nice as
my Mitutoyo ones. They also have left handed calipers. Accusize is Canadian
so there are no shipping hassles for me. Everything that they sell is
Chinese but most is at the better end of the import quality scale.
See
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/6-Full-Screen-Yellow-LCD-Elec-Digital-Caliper-Inch-mm
-Fractional-1110-1818-/152032188231





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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[andy pugh]

On 31 October 2016 at 13:39, Bruce Layne  wrote:
> I now order authentic batteries for digital measuring tools from
> McMaster-Carr.

The difference is between the SR44 and the LR44.
SR44 is Silver oxide and has a higher base voltage, than the
zinc/manganese LR44 and is the one that the digital calipers are
designed for.
LR44 is cheaper, but lower-voltage and will flash sooner. Possibluy
immediately.

Many of the cheap calipers come with an LR44 dspite really needing the SR44.

-- 
atp
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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Bruce Layne]

My  Cautionary Tale Of Woe:

I bought a new Mitutoyo micrometer, one of their top of the line coolant 
proof models.  This was intended to be my "best" handheld measuring 
tool.  I didn't need it for a long time and the original battery was 
dead when I checked it so I replaced the battery with a Maxell battery I 
purchased on eBay.  That battery claimed to be a silver oxide battery 
but was a low quality alkaline battery.  It leaked and ruined the 
micrometer before I ever had a chance to use it.  Mitutoyo wants $85 
plus shipping to repair it.

I now order authentic batteries for digital measuring tools from 
McMaster-Carr.  That's where I order the measuring tools themselves, 
because there are a lot of cheap clones on eBay and Amazon and they've 
learned to maximize sales (and profit!) by pricing their Mitutoyo clones 
just below the cost of the genuine article.  Buyers know that $30 
"Mitutoyo" calipers are fake, but $89 "Mitutoyo" digital calipers look 
like a good deal.

However, there are some Chinese manufactured Fluke digital multimeters 
on eBay and (I think) Amazon that are the real deal, and they're only 
slightly more expensive than the cheap DMMs.  Some even have English and 
Chinese manuals, even though these were designed for the Chinese market 
and Fluke doesn't warranty them outside of China.

I recently needed some inexpensive digital calipers for my ammunition 
reloading hobby because I was always worried about my good Mitutoyo 
calipers banging around on the reloading bench.  I bought six inch 
iGaging digital calipers and they're very nice.  Not quite Mitutoyo 
quality, but nice.  They seemed a bit gritty, but ten slides back and 
forth and they're almost as smooth as the Mitu at a quarter the price.  
They also have a huge LCD which my older eyes love.  I liked them so 
much that I'm buying another to use for daily shop work to save my good 
Mitutoyo calipers for when I really need them (to impress the real 
machinists who might watch my home gamer YouTube machining videos).  I 
bought a 4" digital caliper for mobile use and they're fairly nice too.  
Both correspond exactly to my Mitutoyo calipers when measuring.  From 
what I've seen, there is a lot of difference between the $15 digital 
calipers and the $25 digital calipers, and it's worth spending a little 
more to get a lot more.  The Amazon customer reviews can separate the 
goats from the sheep, if you discount all the paid reviews that now 
plague Amazon.

6" iGaging Calipers ($34 when I just looked but were $28 when I bought 
them a couple of weeks ago)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001AQEZ2W

4" iKKEGOL Calipers
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00X6UKXIA

Caveat emptor!




On 10/31/2016 08:58 AM, Dave Caroline wrote:
> I have a real Mitutoyo and have had intermittent problems recently, it
> turned out to be the lower battery contact has a small crater with the
> under lying corrosion pushing upwards stopping proper contact
> (probably from a leaky battery at some time), a rejig of the spring
> contact has fixed it.
>
> Dave Caroline
>


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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Todd Zuercher]

Looks like the ones we buy by the case for our shop.  Almost certainly the 
battery.  They do get flaky when the battery gets low.  Buying decent batteries 
helps. (you can be pretty sure the ones that came with a cheep one are crap.) 

I'll take a good dial caliper over a digital any day.  But I wouldn't trust the 
shop floor workers with one.

- Original Message -
From: "andy pugh" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 8:17:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

On 31 October 2016 at 12:03, Leonardo Marsaglia
 wrote:
> Is this a Mitutoyo one?

No, it's this one (the 3" size is actually rather convenient for many
jobs, and fits in smaller spaces)
http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/75mm-3-pocket-digital-calipers.html


-- 
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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Dave Caroline]

I have a real Mitutoyo and have had intermittent problems recently, it
turned out to be the lower battery contact has a small crater with the
under lying corrosion pushing upwards stopping proper contact
(probably from a leaky battery at some time), a rejig of the spring
contact has fixed it.

Dave Caroline

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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Stephen Dubovsky]

>
> I also tried a cheap chinesse one but it's was a disaster. Then I found
> these Mitutoyo that are extremely cheap and come from China but I don't
> know what to think.
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mitutoyo-500-196-20-30-300mm-
> 12-Absolute-Digital-Digimatic-Vernier-Caliper-/331999662209?
> hash=item4d4cb8d081:g:jRQAAOSw-CpYAH26
>
>
Those are pretty much guaranteed to be counterfeit.  Also notice the seller
has no feedback on anything but handbags.
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[Emc-users] good tools was Re: An observation on digital calipers

[TJoseph Powderly]

maybe non-machinists/new-machinists could use a list of good tools
maybe a wiki page?
whats your goto tools?

mine
Starret 6" pocket scale decimal inches
Helios vernier ( not even dial ;-)
NSK 1-2-3 mike set with standards
Starret  deep mike ( blade type for mold ribs)
Indicol and Noga indicator holders
Tesa and Compac geneve indicators
Suburban angle plates, vises, and parallels
KantTwist clamps
Bear  (norton) round flat stone to clean table
Arkansas White stone for HScutters

good tools aint cheap, instead they are good ;-)

maybe suggest...not the best stuff, but the middle ground good bang for 
the buck stuff
regards
tomp tjtr33

On 10/31/16 19:03, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
> 2016-10-31 8:28 GMT-03:00 andy pugh :
>
>> My little digital caliper is playing up. It could just be a low
>> battery, it has been flashing the LCD for at least a year.
>> (As an aside, why do they run normally for about a week then flash the
>> display for about a year?)
>> Anyway, moving the slider very slowly it goes from 0.3995" straight to
>> 1.200", then acts a bit random until it switches from 1,499 to a
>> (correct) 0.800"
>> Which surprised me, I had assumed that the basic units of the scale
>> were metric.
>>
> Is this a Mitutoyo one? I have one of these that was purchased in 1993 and
> it works quite well except when there's a lot of humidity and you have to
> clean the travel surface because it starts to jump numbers giving
> ridiculous readings. This also happens when the battery is low.
>
> I also tried a cheap chinesse one but it's was a disaster. Then I found
> these Mitutoyo that are extremely cheap and come from China but I don't
> know what to think.
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mitutoyo-500-196-20-30-300mm-12-Absolute-Digital-Digimatic-Vernier-Caliper-/331999662209?hash=item4d4cb8d081:g:jRQAAOSw-CpYAH26
>
>


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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 31 October 2016 08:03:15 Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

> 2016-10-31 8:28 GMT-03:00 andy pugh :
> > My little digital caliper is playing up. It could just be a low
> > battery, it has been flashing the LCD for at least a year.
> > (As an aside, why do they run normally for about a week then flash
> > the display for about a year?)
> > Anyway, moving the slider very slowly it goes from 0.3995" straight
> > to 1.200", then acts a bit random until it switches from 1,499 to a
> > (correct) 0.800"
> > Which surprised me, I had assumed that the basic units of the scale
> > were metric.
>
> Is this a Mitutoyo one? I have one of these that was purchased in 1993
> and it works quite well except when there's a lot of humidity and you
> have to clean the travel surface because it starts to jump numbers
> giving ridiculous readings. This also happens when the battery is low.
>
> I also tried a cheap chinesse one but it's was a disaster. Then I
> found these Mitutoyo that are extremely cheap and come from China but
> I don't know what to think.
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mitutoyo-500-196-20-30-300mm-12-Absolute-Digit
>al-Digimatic-Vernier-Caliper-/331999662209?hash=item4d4cb8d081:g:jRQAAO
>Sw-CpYAH26

Thats a good price for a 12 incher. But while the length is nice, its 
also a PITA because there's no place to lay it down that it can't slide 
off of.  Last time it giggled off, it landed face down on another item 
on the floor and shattered the display glass. I liked the one I got from 
Grizzly when I stopped at the PA store and bought the G0704.  Nice tool, 
but needs a hangup hook to prevent the giggle off the chip table falls.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 31 October 2016 07:28:23 andy pugh wrote:

> My little digital caliper is playing up. It could just be a low
> battery, it has been flashing the LCD for at least a year.
> (As an aside, why do they run normally for about a week then flash the
> display for about a year?)
> Anyway, moving the slider very slowly it goes from 0.3995" straight to
> 1.200", then acts a bit random until it switches from 1,499 to a
> (correct) 0.800"
> Which surprised me, I had assumed that the basic units of the scale
> were metric.

Digital calipers have been historically one of these things that does not 
turn off, only killing the display which is half the battery drain. In 
your case I would try a fresh battery, but if that doesn't help, its 
toast. I have had several that single bars of the display would get dim, 
and if you are into watchmaking you can occasionally figure out how to 
increase the pressure on the little looks like silicon rubber strip that 
connects the display to the pcb.  And while I have done that to 2 or 3 
of them, its generally a short term fix.  That rubber has microscopic 
silver wires in it for a top to bottom connection without any sideways 
shorts, and it gradually collapses until the connection weakens & that 
bar fades from view.  Engineering wise, the pcb's are so thin they need 
8 to 12 screws to hold then properly, and I've yet to find one that had 
more than 4, one in each corner.

I have found little lifetime difference between the $12 ones and the $80 
ones, and have gotten to the point that they are a throwaway tool if the 
2nd battery that comes with most of them does not restore it to 100%.

My  most recent purchase however does turn completely off and auto zero's 
itself where ever its at when turned on, or again if its closed.  Nice 
crisp display, but I have become used to swiping the faces with a 
finger, and closing it before turning on in order to establish a clean 
face contact & a good zero.  I think I've got 14 USD in it. Maybe 6 
weeks back. So far my only squawk is that the stainless its made of is 
ferrous and magnetized, so its a bear to keep clean, and the auto turn 
off is way too fast, about a minute, so I am dependant on the auto zero 
when doing comparative readings a minute apart because by the time I 
have adjusted whatever I am measuring and ready to take a fresh 
measurement, I pick it up to recheck the measurement and its timed out 
and shut off. I'd be happier with about a 4x longer timeout. Sadly, they 
have become throwaway tools in the last 5 years.

Cheers Andy, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[andy pugh]

On 31 October 2016 at 12:03, Leonardo Marsaglia
 wrote:
> Is this a Mitutoyo one?

No, it's this one (the 3" size is actually rather convenient for many
jobs, and fits in smaller spaces)
http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/75mm-3-pocket-digital-calipers.html


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

2016-10-31 8:28 GMT-03:00 andy pugh :

> My little digital caliper is playing up. It could just be a low
> battery, it has been flashing the LCD for at least a year.
> (As an aside, why do they run normally for about a week then flash the
> display for about a year?)
> Anyway, moving the slider very slowly it goes from 0.3995" straight to
> 1.200", then acts a bit random until it switches from 1,499 to a
> (correct) 0.800"
> Which surprised me, I had assumed that the basic units of the scale
> were metric.
>

Is this a Mitutoyo one? I have one of these that was purchased in 1993 and
it works quite well except when there's a lot of humidity and you have to
clean the travel surface because it starts to jump numbers giving
ridiculous readings. This also happens when the battery is low.

I also tried a cheap chinesse one but it's was a disaster. Then I found
these Mitutoyo that are extremely cheap and come from China but I don't
know what to think.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mitutoyo-500-196-20-30-300mm-12-Absolute-Digital-Digimatic-Vernier-Caliper-/331999662209?hash=item4d4cb8d081:g:jRQAAOSw-CpYAH26


-- 
*Leonardo Marsaglia*.
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Re: [Emc-users] Raspi, 7i90HD and such stuff...

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 30 October 2016 19:55:34 you wrote:

> Hello Gene,
>
> If my response takes too long, please do not get impatient, because
> I'm on the other side of the pond. :)
>
> BTW: This is a pure linuxcnc project except the kernel.
> Please download the kernel and the kernel-header with this links:
>
> http://deb.machinekit.io/debian/pool/main/l/linux-rt/linux-image-rpi2-
>rt_4.4.4-rt9-v7+-7_armhf.deb
> http://deb.machinekit.io/debian/pool/main/l/linux-rt/linux-headers-rpi
>2-rt_4.4.4-rt9-v7+-7_armhf.deb
>
> and put it in the install dir as described in the last mails.
>
> Please schedule the execution of the next instructions to the end:
>
> Install it with
> dpkg -i linux-*
>
> Maybe you have recognised that there are 2 partitions on the sd-card.
> The 1st is the boot partition the 2nd is the rootfs.
>
> there is a /boot/config.txt
>
> in this file change or add the line:
>
> kernel=kernel_rt-4.4.4-rt9-v7+.img
>
>
> Cheers Matsche

Couldn't get to sleep yet, shoulder too sore. All of the above has been 
done.  And I managed to lockup the lathe sim once, and something that 
doesn't want to advertise enough to show in the htop display, is banging 
on the sd card at nominally 1 second intervals now.  Is this a concern?  
And how do I shut down apache2? I don't think it should be needed and 
its eating 224 megs of dram.

Thank you Matsche.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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[Emc-users] An observation on digital calipers

[andy pugh]

My little digital caliper is playing up. It could just be a low
battery, it has been flashing the LCD for at least a year.
(As an aside, why do they run normally for about a week then flash the
display for about a year?)
Anyway, moving the slider very slowly it goes from 0.3995" straight to
1.200", then acts a bit random until it switches from 1,499 to a
(correct) 0.800"
Which surprised me, I had assumed that the basic units of the scale
were metric.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
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