Re: [Emc-users] Touch Probe

[Todd Zuercher]

Our big commercial machines (not Linuxcnc) pause for user intervention (manual 
centering of the cutter over the probe) before starting the probing stroke.  So 
it isn't a fully automated process.  The machine picks up the tool, moves over 
the probe, and pauses, the operator checks alignment and moves x and/or y as 
necessary and turns the spindle to align the cutter with the probe, then 
presses continue, and the machine probes the tool.  Some of the machines even 
require moving the Z to within 1/4" of the probe before pressing continue. 
(This distance is arbitrary and can be changed in settings, but having it this 
short helps prevent smashing the probe or something else if something were to 
go wrong.)

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Les Newell  
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 7:36 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Touch Probe

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

My tool setter has a plate that's about 30mm diameter. If I need to do 
something bigger than that I have to do it manually.

Les

On 16/11/2021 12:28, Matthew Herd wrote:
> Is there a provision for tool setting a face mill or a tool with a different 
> center height than the outside diameter?  Or do those have to be done 
> manually? I imagine the spindle orientation would also matter for most tool 
> setters due to the spacing of the inserts.
>
> Matthew Herd
> herd.m...@gmail.com
> 610-608-8930



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Re: [Emc-users] Touch Probe

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 16 Nov 2021 at 12:31, Matthew Herd  wrote:
>
> Is there a provision for tool setting a face mill or a tool with a different 
> center height than the outside diameter?

I think that you could probably do something clever with U/V offsets
in the tool table.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Touch Probe

[Les Newell]

My tool setter has a plate that's about 30mm diameter. If I need to do 
something bigger than that I have to do it manually.


Les

On 16/11/2021 12:28, Matthew Herd wrote:

Is there a provision for tool setting a face mill or a tool with a different 
center height than the outside diameter?  Or do those have to be done manually? 
I imagine the spindle orientation would also matter for most tool setters due 
to the spacing of the inserts.

Matthew Herd
herd.m...@gmail.com
610-608-8930




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Re: [Emc-users] Touch Probe

[Matthew Herd]

Is there a provision for tool setting a face mill or a tool with a different 
center height than the outside diameter?  Or do those have to be done manually? 
I imagine the spindle orientation would also matter for most tool setters due 
to the spacing of the inserts.  

Matthew Herd
herd.m...@gmail.com
610-608-8930

> On Nov 16, 2021, at 7:24 AM, Les Newell  wrote:
> 
> Sorry for the delay in replying. I missed your post. I have attached the 
> files. I have a Modbus front panel with a bunch of buttons. One (connected to 
> digital input 0) enables/disables auto tool set. Only tools 1-100 will auto 
> toolset. My probe is T101. Another button directly calls the tool set 
> subroutine so I can manually trigger a tool set.
> 
> The probe and tool setter are in series so either will trigger the probe 
> input. Among other things this allows me to calibrate the probe relative to 
> the tool setter by simply doing a probe toolset.
> 
> Les
> 
>> On 13/11/2021 17:26, John Dammeyer wrote:
>> Hi Les,
>> I have to ask.  How do you have an optional subroutine on M6?  Can you share 
>> the code?
>> Thanks
>> John
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Touch Probe

[Les Newell]

Sorry for the delay in replying. I missed your post. I have attached the 
files. I have a Modbus front panel with a bunch of buttons. One 
(connected to digital input 0) enables/disables auto tool set. Only 
tools 1-100 will auto toolset. My probe is T101. Another button directly 
calls the tool set subroutine so I can manually trigger a tool set.


The probe and tool setter are in series so either will trigger the probe 
input. Among other things this allows me to calibrate the probe relative 
to the tool setter by simply doing a probe toolset.


Les

On 13/11/2021 17:26, John Dammeyer wrote:

Hi Les,
I have to ask.  How do you have an optional subroutine on M6?  Can you share 
the code?
Thanks
John

o sub
# = #5400
g53 g0 z0
M6
; we must execute this only in the milltask interpreter
; or preview will break, so test for '#<_task>' which is 1 for 
; the milltask interpreter and 0 in the UI's

O999 if [[#<_task> LT 1] or [# eq #5400] or [#5400 eq 100]]
O999return [-2]
O999 endif

M66 P0 L0
O1000 if [#5399 EQ 1]
O  call
O1000 endif
g43 h#5400

o endsub
m2
o sub

O999 if [#<_task> LT 1]
O999return [-2]
O999 endif

O998 if [#5400 eq 0]
(abort, Cannot toolset - no tool selected)
O998 endif

M64P0

m73
G21 (TLO and toolchange position is in mm as per ini)
G90 (absolute)
m5

#4 = #5420
#5 = #5421
g53 g0 z0
g53 g0 X #<_ini[TOOL_SETTER]x> Y #<_ini[TOOL_SETTER]y>
#1 = [#5422 + #<_ini[TOOL_SETTER]z>]
#2 = #5422
g38.2 z#1 f4000
g0 z[#5063 + 2]
g38.2 z#1 f200
m72
g10 l1 p#5400 z[#5422 - #1]
g43 h#5400
g53 g0 z0
g0 x#4 y#5
M65P0
o endsub
m2
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Re: [Emc-users] Touch Probe

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Les,
I have to ask.  How do you have an optional subroutine on M6?  Can you share 
the code?
Thanks
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Les Newell [mailto:les.new...@fastmail.co.uk]
> Sent: November-13-21 4:22 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Touch Probe
> 
> My copy of the probe screen is I guess V1. It's probably about 3-4 years
> old.
> 
> Having a tool setter is nice. Some time back I picked up a couple of
> Renishaw MP3 probes so I use one as probe and one permanently mounted to
> the table as a tool setter. I have a subroutine that runs on M6 which
> can optionally auto tool set. It makes life really easy.
> 
> Les
> 
> On 12/11/2021 17:50, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > Hi Les,
> > Yes.  It was the probe screen images I found on the net that pointed me to 
> > the versaPR that is pretty nice for the price.  The V2
> screen for LCNC 2.8 overall is good.  I've been looking through the Python 
> code to see what it's up to.  It looks at the INI file for the
> jog step size and machine config Imperial/metric.  It does not look at the 
> G20/G21 state which is unfortunate.
> >
> > While it's probing the DROs are not incremented in real time.  They are 
> > only updated after probing is done.  To watch what's
> happening you start the probe and then quickly flip back to the main or DRO 
> screen and you can see the feed rates and XYZ
> positions update in real time.
> >
> > I'm not using the TS button since I don't yet have a tool setter.  I 
> > followed a different tutorial from the LCNC help files for
> configuring the tool table for my tools in the TT holders.  The down side is 
> I have one 1/4" drill chuck and if I need different size
> holes it becomes a bit tedious so a tool setting operation, sometimes, would 
> be handy.
> >
> > The reason I say sometimes is that my mill head can move in and out with a 
> > hand crank.  For castings larger than the Y distance
> motion I have to move it around quite a bit.  That then changes the physical 
> tool change (and probe set)  positions.
> >
> > I guess in the long run it will depend on how often I cast large stuff or 
> > machine small stuff.
> >
> > John
> >
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Touch Probe

[Les Newell]

My copy of the probe screen is I guess V1. It's probably about 3-4 years 
old.


Having a tool setter is nice. Some time back I picked up a couple of 
Renishaw MP3 probes so I use one as probe and one permanently mounted to 
the table as a tool setter. I have a subroutine that runs on M6 which 
can optionally auto tool set. It makes life really easy.


Les

On 12/11/2021 17:50, John Dammeyer wrote:

Hi Les,
Yes.  It was the probe screen images I found on the net that pointed me to the 
versaPR that is pretty nice for the price.  The V2 screen for LCNC 2.8 overall 
is good.  I've been looking through the Python code to see what it's up to.  It 
looks at the INI file for the jog step size and machine config Imperial/metric. 
 It does not look at the G20/G21 state which is unfortunate.

While it's probing the DROs are not incremented in real time.  They are only 
updated after probing is done.  To watch what's happening you start the probe 
and then quickly flip back to the main or DRO screen and you can see the feed 
rates and XYZ positions update in real time.

I'm not using the TS button since I don't yet have a tool setter.  I followed a 
different tutorial from the LCNC help files for configuring the tool table for my 
tools in the TT holders.  The down side is I have one 1/4" drill chuck and if I 
need different size holes it becomes a bit tedious so a tool setting operation, 
sometimes, would be handy.

The reason I say sometimes is that my mill head can move in and out with a hand 
crank.  For castings larger than the Y distance motion I have to move it around 
quite a bit.  That then changes the physical tool change (and probe set)  
positions.

I guess in the long run it will depend on how often I cast large stuff or 
machine small stuff.

John





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Re: [Emc-users] Touch Probe

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Les,
Yes.  It was the probe screen images I found on the net that pointed me to the 
versaPR that is pretty nice for the price.  The V2 screen for LCNC 2.8 overall 
is good.  I've been looking through the Python code to see what it's up to.  It 
looks at the INI file for the jog step size and machine config Imperial/metric. 
 It does not look at the G20/G21 state which is unfortunate.  

While it's probing the DROs are not incremented in real time.  They are only 
updated after probing is done.  To watch what's happening you start the probe 
and then quickly flip back to the main or DRO screen and you can see the feed 
rates and XYZ positions update in real time.

I'm not using the TS button since I don't yet have a tool setter.  I followed a 
different tutorial from the LCNC help files for configuring the tool table for 
my tools in the TT holders.  The down side is I have one 1/4" drill chuck and 
if I need different size holes it becomes a bit tedious so a tool setting 
operation, sometimes, would be handy.

The reason I say sometimes is that my mill head can move in and out with a hand 
crank.  For castings larger than the Y distance motion I have to move it around 
quite a bit.  That then changes the physical tool change (and probe set)  
positions.  

I guess in the long run it will depend on how often I cast large stuff or 
machine small stuff.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Les Newell [mailto:les.new...@fastmail.co.uk]
> Sent: November-12-21 5:20 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Touch Probe
> 
> Are you using their recommended probe screen? I'm using an older version
> of that probe screen and have had a few issues with it. If a probe fails
> it can store up moves and execute them next time you try probing. If a
> probe fails press stop a few times to clear the moves. I got caught out
> by this a while back and it ended up repeatedly pounding my probe into
> the work. The stylus hit with so much force it pretty much exploded and
> parts hit my 12' ceiling! I have to take my hat off to Renishaw. They
> may be painfully expensive but their probes can take a beating. After
> replacing the stylus and re calibrating it was good to go.
> 
> Les
> 
> On 12/11/2021 03:30, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > Wires have been run.  Been a bit difficult to get it working as my machine 
> > is still imperial and most of the Probe Screen is targeted
> to metric.  Add that you need to type Enter to make a parameter change 
> permanent and you have no idea which field is being
> changed the point above the work to put the probe for measuring is a bit 
> obscure.
> > Finally figured it out and made this short video.
> > https://youtu.be/y1CBt3HYnvU
> >
> > John
> >
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Touch Probe

[Les Newell]

Are you using their recommended probe screen? I'm using an older version 
of that probe screen and have had a few issues with it. If a probe fails 
it can store up moves and execute them next time you try probing. If a 
probe fails press stop a few times to clear the moves. I got caught out 
by this a while back and it ended up repeatedly pounding my probe into 
the work. The stylus hit with so much force it pretty much exploded and 
parts hit my 12' ceiling! I have to take my hat off to Renishaw. They 
may be painfully expensive but their probes can take a beating. After 
replacing the stylus and re calibrating it was good to go.


Les

On 12/11/2021 03:30, John Dammeyer wrote:

Wires have been run.  Been a bit difficult to get it working as my machine is 
still imperial and most of the Probe Screen is targeted to metric.  Add that 
you need to type Enter to make a parameter change permanent and you have no 
idea which field is being changed the point above the work to put the probe for 
measuring is a bit obscure.
Finally figured it out and made this short video.
https://youtu.be/y1CBt3HYnvU

John





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Re: [Emc-users] Touch Probe

[andrew beck]

Yeah I have been trying to buy one for ages but here in New Zealand the
credit cards won't allow me to buy from beluras as there are sanctions
against it.



On Fri, 12 Nov 2021, 16:56 John Dammeyer,  wrote:

> Busy 3D printing a small box to hold my interface board to the spindle and
> probe connector.   Then I'll do some more testing.
>
> It appears to be fairly repeatable.   I haven't figured out how to set the
> Z zero to the top of the material.  I can click on the icon button and it
> goes down, finds it and then moves up.  But it's at a random Z value.  What
> I'd really like is that it detects the top, sets the Z axis to zero and
> then moves up the preprogrammed amount.
> In the same way the screen positions the probe above the 0 point for say X
> and Y but nothing else is changed.  One still has to go to the main screen
> and zero both X and Y.
>
> Or else I'm using it wrong...  Probably...
> John
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: November-11-21 7:37 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Touch Probe
> >
> > Awesome
> >
> > I want one 
> >
> > On Fri, 12 Nov 2021, 16:34 John Dammeyer, 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Wires have been run.  Been a bit difficult to get it working as my
> machine
> > > is still imperial and most of the Probe Screen is targeted to metric.
> Add
> > > that you need to type Enter to make a parameter change permanent and
> you
> > > have no idea which field is being changed the point above the work to
> put
> > > the probe for measuring is a bit obscure.
> > > Finally figured it out and made this short video.
> > > https://youtu.be/y1CBt3HYnvU
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> > > > Sent: November-10-21 12:50 PM
> > > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > > > Subject: [Emc-users] Touch Probe
> > > >
> > > > My PR series touch probe arrived from Belarus today (www.vers.by ).
> > > Quality looks really nice.  Now to decide which input to use to
> > > > connect it to LCNC and run the wires.  I already have the probe
> screen
> > > panel installed.
> > > >
> > > > More when it's been tested.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
> > > > Automation Artisans Inc.
> > > > www dot autoartisans dot com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___
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> > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
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> > >
> >
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>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Touch Probe

[John Dammeyer]

Busy 3D printing a small box to hold my interface board to the spindle and 
probe connector.   Then I'll do some more testing.

It appears to be fairly repeatable.   I haven't figured out how to set the Z 
zero to the top of the material.  I can click on the icon button and it goes 
down, finds it and then moves up.  But it's at a random Z value.  What I'd 
really like is that it detects the top, sets the Z axis to zero and then moves 
up the preprogrammed amount.  
In the same way the screen positions the probe above the 0 point for say X and 
Y but nothing else is changed.  One still has to go to the main screen and zero 
both X and Y.

Or else I'm using it wrong...  Probably...
John
 

> -Original Message-
> From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
> Sent: November-11-21 7:37 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Touch Probe
> 
> Awesome
> 
> I want one 
> 
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2021, 16:34 John Dammeyer,  wrote:
> 
> > Wires have been run.  Been a bit difficult to get it working as my machine
> > is still imperial and most of the Probe Screen is targeted to metric.  Add
> > that you need to type Enter to make a parameter change permanent and you
> > have no idea which field is being changed the point above the work to put
> > the probe for measuring is a bit obscure.
> > Finally figured it out and made this short video.
> > https://youtu.be/y1CBt3HYnvU
> >
> > John
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> > > Sent: November-10-21 12:50 PM
> > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > > Subject: [Emc-users] Touch Probe
> > >
> > > My PR series touch probe arrived from Belarus today (www.vers.by ).
> > Quality looks really nice.  Now to decide which input to use to
> > > connect it to LCNC and run the wires.  I already have the probe screen
> > panel installed.
> > >
> > > More when it's been tested.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > > "ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
> > > Automation Artisans Inc.
> > > www dot autoartisans dot com
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Touch Probe

[andrew beck]

Awesome

I want one 

On Fri, 12 Nov 2021, 16:34 John Dammeyer,  wrote:

> Wires have been run.  Been a bit difficult to get it working as my machine
> is still imperial and most of the Probe Screen is targeted to metric.  Add
> that you need to type Enter to make a parameter change permanent and you
> have no idea which field is being changed the point above the work to put
> the probe for measuring is a bit obscure.
> Finally figured it out and made this short video.
> https://youtu.be/y1CBt3HYnvU
>
> John
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> > Sent: November-10-21 12:50 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: [Emc-users] Touch Probe
> >
> > My PR series touch probe arrived from Belarus today (www.vers.by ).
> Quality looks really nice.  Now to decide which input to use to
> > connect it to LCNC and run the wires.  I already have the probe screen
> panel installed.
> >
> > More when it's been tested.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > "ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
> > Automation Artisans Inc.
> > www dot autoartisans dot com
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Touch Probe

[John Dammeyer]

Wires have been run.  Been a bit difficult to get it working as my machine is 
still imperial and most of the Probe Screen is targeted to metric.  Add that 
you need to type Enter to make a parameter change permanent and you have no 
idea which field is being changed the point above the work to put the probe for 
measuring is a bit obscure.
Finally figured it out and made this short video.
https://youtu.be/y1CBt3HYnvU

John

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: November-10-21 12:50 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] Touch Probe
> 
> My PR series touch probe arrived from Belarus today (www.vers.by ).  Quality 
> looks really nice.  Now to decide which input to use to
> connect it to LCNC and run the wires.  I already have the probe screen  panel 
> installed.
> 
> More when it's been tested.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> "ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
> Automation Artisans Inc.
> www dot autoartisans dot com
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] touch probe

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 12 September 2016 10:42:38 andy pugh wrote:

> On 12 September 2016 at 15:27, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > > Feed-hold can be masked and unmasked with the G53 command, feed
> > > inhibit can't.
> >
> > I see.  Possibly a huge difference. Generally, my use of g53 is to
> > reset the user coordinates back to sane values
>
> Sorry, my error. I meant M53.
>
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/m-code.html#mcode:m53

Hmm, some interesting things there, and not well studied by me yet. One 
snippet looks useful, as in a single command to configure the machine 
either as metric, or imperial. Too often I find myself using a 
calculator, which of course is subject to 'bitton' push errors. :)

If and when this Sheldon is actually making swarf, I might explore that.  
But that is not going to be until November at my present rate of 
progress. I made the alu piece to hold the gear detectors, but haven't 
cut the pockets to put them in yet, and Go-2 glued a small piece of 
screw to the side face of the big gear for an index pulse. In the 
process found the upper drive belts were "lumpy" and not very tight. 
They've been loose long enough to have worn away a casting flange at the 
bottom of the bed, or in the top of the foot, hard to see. Putting some 
tension on them reduced the rumble & vibration quite a bit.  Major 
disassembly of the headstock end of the lathe is required to replace 
them.

But I now have the x axis ball screw well shielded from swarf. I machined 
a 1/8" deep ledge in the top of the crossfeed and glued a 1x.125" strip 
of stock alu about 15" long into the recess, so its covered from the 
top, and the saddle had bed clearance enough that I could do the same 
below the screw but with 24 gauge metal.

Made new way wipers out of an old felt hat. They work sweet, keeping a 
film of oil on the ways. I can push it full length of the bed with about 
a 3 lb push.

Taking the OEM apron off leaves room to put a real, full length gib on 
the front instead of those two postage stamp sized bits of steel.  Wear 
on the bottom lip of the bed is considerable as the right hand one was 
used for a carriage lock, and had been over tightened, actually bending 
the bolt such that there was no place you could turn it that was 
actually free.  So my brass piece is going to reach beyond that wear, 
and will have several more bolts to hold it. It will need a bit of 
shimming for the proper fit of course, but that has to be a considerable 
improvement over the state it was in when we set it down in the u-haul. 

The new apron is a 1/2" thick alu slab about the same face size as the 
old apron, with a window cut in the center for the x motor to be mounted 
on an 1/8" sliding plate for timing belt tension adjustments, so the new 
Z screw has to be hung about as high as I can get it so it clears the 
motor. Higher also helps reduce the leverage on the saddle when its 
pushing hard, so that has to be a Good Thing.

I'll have to make a pad to fit between the 2505 nut holder and this slab 
of alu, and all the spacing pads to allow it to fit behind another slab 
of 1/2" alu bolted to where the qcgb was, with the Z motor on the front 
of the slab, driving the Z screw thru a pair of 40 tooth timing pulleys. 

I've some bellows type covers coming to cover the Z screw with but I'll 
have to make the pieces the ends are to be clamped onto.  That size is 
TBD until they get here, supposedly sometime this week.

There will be, like your Holbrook, lots of one off parts in this puppy.
All of which take time to make. :(  The past thing I'll change out is the 
spindle motor. I have a steel box big enough to hold the xy motors 
drivers and psu's & keep swarf out of those, but it looks like the only 
place for the vfd to drive the 1 horse motor is under the left hand 
drawer. So I'll have to make brackets for that.

But ATM, working on the encoder and trying to figure out how to get the 
wire out of the head but out of sight & safe from being chewed up by a 
spinning part.

Which brings up another question: How oil resistant is common Beldon 
ribbon cable?  Because its flat, I may use that, ground on one edge 
wire, +5 for the hall effect stuff on the other edge, and the ABZ in the 
middle. But it is going to get oily in there.  Hence the question.

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: [Emc-users] touch probe

[andy pugh]

On 12 September 2016 at 15:27, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> > Feed-hold can be masked and unmasked with the G53 command, feed
> > inhibit can't.
>
> I see.  Possibly a huge difference. Generally, my use of g53 is to reset
> the user coordinates back to sane values


Sorry, my error. I meant M53.

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/m-code.html#mcode:m53

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Re: [Emc-users] touch probe

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 12 September 2016 08:25:37 andy pugh wrote:

> On 11 September 2016 at 16:08, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > > > motion.feed-inhibit
>
> ...
>
> > > motion.feed-hold
>
> ...
>
> > "what is the difference in how they work?"
>
> Feed-hold can be masked and unmasked with the G53 command, feed
> inhibit can't.

I see.  Possibly a huge difference. Generally, my use of g53 is to reset 
the user coordinates back to sane values, so its not a command in 
every .ngc file I write. I don't recall that I have anything connected 
to either in my .hal files. Just rechecked all 3 machines, no 
connections.

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: [Emc-users] touch probe

[andy pugh]

On 11 September 2016 at 16:08, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> > > motion.feed-inhibit
>
...

> > motion.feed-hold

...

> "what is the difference in how they work?"


Feed-hold can be masked and unmasked with the G53 command, feed inhibit
can't.

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Re: [Emc-users] touch probe

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 10 September 2016 20:50:10 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 09/03/2016 08:47 PM, Chris Morley wrote:
> > motion.feed-inhibit would be the one to use.
> >
> > only (maybe) homing and synch moves are un fazed by it.
>
> This appears to be a new feature in 2.8 or so, my older
> version doesn't have this pin, but it does have
> motion.feed-hold, so I used that.  So, when the probe is in
> use, a loss of valid signal from the probe causes a feed hold.

I just checked, I have both in the latest 2.7.7-sim, and in the 2.8 pre's 
I am cutting things with.  No clue when it appeared.  Better question 
might be "what is the difference in how they work?"

> Anyway, I got the thing working!  It seems this probe has a
> rather large deflection of about .008" with a 100 mm
> stylus.  I'm going to get a shorter stylus, as the entire
> thing is an awfully long stack, and the whole idea is to be
> able to measure not only X and Y, but length, too, so having
> to move the knee defeats the purpose.

Am I mistaken, ISTR you had a motor on the knee, Jon. I'd imagine a 
method to link that to the quill has been worked out by now so that it 
just displayed the total z. Stiction might be a problem, preventing good 
backlash measurement for compensation, but if lubed in the last 48 
hours, I'd have to assume zero backlash.

Side comment, having bought a gallon of Mobil Vactra iso 68, and finding 
I can't buy an oiler with a pump in it that still works a week after 
being filled with Vactra, it isn't always stiction free for a z move 
unless its been well soaked at the top of the gib, and the head (or 
knee) run up and down a couple times to distribute it.  Is Vactra iso 68 
the best oil for post or knee lube?

Or would something like STP be a better lube for posts and knees? It at 
least doesn't dissolve the valve seat for the one way ball valve in the 
pumper of an oiler.  I purposely bought one whose ball seated directly 
against the coned bottom of the pumper cup.  Brought it home & filled it 
up with Vactra, checked how it pumped, it worked just fine. The next day 
I picked it up and the pumper was already toast. Apparently the piston 
seal was something vactra liked really well.

If someone knows of a pumper type oiler that Vactra can't destroy, I am 
all eyes. I must have $50 in oilers sitting around, effectively brand 
new and totally useless.

> I did find that the chain of logic is pretty slow.  I probed
> at 1, 5 and 10 IPM, and saw a definite shift in the
> measurement as speed went up.  There can't be more than 1 ms
> delay in the FPGA, and the digital inputs are sampled at 1
> ms, so I'm not sure I understand where this is coming from.
> 1 IPM is 1/60th inch/second, and I have 20,000 counts/inch
> on X and Y, so that is 333 counts/second.  Given a couple ms
> delay, that is just a couple encoder counts + or -. But, I
> was seeing a change of .011" when I went from 1 IPM to 10
> IPM.  (I got a shift of .003" at 5 IPM.)  With a
> double-touch probing routine, it is not too slow to make the
> final touch at 1 IPM.

I think my last version of my pcb hole finder, using electrical contact 
to detect it, runs the final touch at .5 ipm, but the backaway to make 
the slow move is only 5 thou. And its generally repeatable to under a 
thou on average. I can etch a pcb on the toy, finishing up that side by 
running the hole drill file about 40 thou into the board, turn it over 
and etch & drill the other side, pull it back out of the pallet, and I 
cannot detect a step where the drill stopped in the middle of the pcb 
thickness, then came in from the other side with a very strong glass.  I 
did it that way after finding the micarta pallet, if the drill went 
thru, raised a nearly un-detectable ridge around the hole that pushed 
the 2nd side of the board out of flat by 2 or 3 thou.

> I probed both sides of a gauge block to try to determine the
> effective tip diameter.
> When I compensated for the .008" deflection to trigger the
> probe, calculations worked out for the effective tip
> diameter.  The tip appears to be smaller than the measured
> diameter due to the deflection that is needed to activate
> the probe.  (The whole reasoning behind Blum's design is to
> make the deflection to trip it the same from all
> directions.  Apparently, the classic 6 balls and 3 rods
> Renishaw probe has a 3-lobed sensitivity pattern with large
> peaks and valleys.  Blum claims they get 1 um variation in
> the distance to trip the probe from any direction in the XY
> plane.)
>
Whats the amplitude of those peaks and valleys.  More than a thou?

I'm obviously thinking in terms of diminishing returns per dollar.

> Once all this settles down, I will make edge finding probe
> routines that set the XY zero for any of the 4 corners of a
> part, and also sets the Z of the top of the part.
>
> I made an adapter from the FPGA board to the CNC control,
> and it has some flaky contacts, so I may remake the whole
> thing (it is just 3 LEDs, 5 resistors 

Re: [Emc-users] touch probe

[Jon Elson]

On 09/03/2016 08:47 PM, Chris Morley wrote:
> motion.feed-inhibit would be the one to use.
>
> only (maybe) homing and synch moves are un fazed by it.
>
>
This appears to be a new feature in 2.8 or so, my older 
version doesn't have this pin, but it does have
motion.feed-hold, so I used that.  So, when the probe is in 
use, a loss of valid signal from the probe causes a feed hold.

Anyway, I got the thing working!  It seems this probe has a 
rather large deflection of about .008" with a 100 mm 
stylus.  I'm going to get a shorter stylus, as the entire 
thing is an awfully long stack, and the whole idea is to be 
able to measure not only X and Y, but length, too, so having 
to move the knee defeats the purpose.

I did find that the chain of logic is pretty slow.  I probed 
at 1, 5 and 10 IPM, and saw a definite shift in the 
measurement as speed went up.  There can't be more than 1 ms 
delay in the FPGA, and the digital inputs are sampled at 1 
ms, so I'm not sure I understand where this is coming from.  
1 IPM is 1/60th inch/second, and I have 20,000 counts/inch 
on X and Y, so that is 333 counts/second.  Given a couple ms 
delay, that is just a couple encoder counts + or -. But, I 
was seeing a change of .011" when I went from 1 IPM to 10 
IPM.  (I got a shift of .003" at 5 IPM.)  With a 
double-touch probing routine, it is not too slow to make the 
final touch at 1 IPM.

I probed both sides of a gauge block to try to determine the 
effective tip diameter.
When I compensated for the .008" deflection to trigger the 
probe, calculations worked out for the effective tip 
diameter.  The tip appears to be smaller than the measured 
diameter due to the deflection that is needed to activate 
the probe.  (The whole reasoning behind Blum's design is to 
make the deflection to trip it the same from all 
directions.  Apparently, the classic 6 balls and 3 rods 
Renishaw probe has a 3-lobed sensitivity pattern with large 
peaks and valleys.  Blum claims they get 1 um variation in 
the distance to trip the probe from any direction in the XY 
plane.)

Once all this settles down, I will make edge finding probe 
routines that set the XY zero for any of the 4 corners of a 
part, and also sets the Z of the top of the part.

I made an adapter from the FPGA board to the CNC control, 
and it has some flaky contacts, so I may remake the whole 
thing (it is just 3 LEDs, 5 resistors and 2 opto-isolators, 
so not much to redo) when I put it all in a box.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] touch probe

[Chris Morley]

motion.feed-inhibit would be the one to use.

only (maybe) homing and synch moves are un fazed by it.

It can't be masked either.


Chris M




From: Jon Elson 
Sent: September 4, 2016 12:42 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: [Emc-users] touch probe

Does anybody know if the touch probe gcode (G38) obeys
motion.feed-hold?  (I'm guessing it should, but wondered if
anybody knew?)

This Blum probe I got has IR communication, and sends a
single serial byte every 16 ms when there is no event, and
sends a byte immediately when there is a change of state of
the probe.  So, I was thinking I could have a watchdog timer
that causes a feed hold if the IR pickup fails to report for
50 ms or so.  That might prevent ugly crashes if things go
wrong.

Thanks for any comments,

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] touch probe routines

[Stuart Stevenson]

My preferred probe calibration protocol:

clamp a known diameter hole (ex. dial bore gage master) to the machine table
determine XY location of the hole (test indicator in the spindle?)
with the probe in the spindle use a calibration routine to determine where
the probe calculates the hole XY location and the diameter of the probed
diameter
the calibration routine uses the known diameter of the probe tip, the known
diameter of the hole, the dialed in XY location and the probed XY location
to determine the apparent diameter of the probe tip and the adjustment
values to correct the probed XY location to the dialed in XY location. These
values are saved for future use.

I don't have a probe on any of my EMC2 machines or I would work on this
protocol.
thanks
Stuart

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Re: [Emc-users] touch probe routines

[Jon Elson]

Stuart Stevenson wrote:
 My preferred probe calibration protocol:

 clamp a known diameter hole (ex. dial bore gage master) to the machine table
 determine XY location of the hole (test indicator in the spindle?
I've seen these edge locators with an inside corner and a hole centered 
over the intersection of the
sides of the corner.  I don't know how to make one of these fixtures 
accurately.  A good one is
probably somewhat expensive.

Steve Stallings had a $120 touch probe made by Wildhorse Innovations (I 
think he paid
$140 but they have reduced the price.)  It is modeled after the patented 
Renishaw probe that recently
expired.  It has a steel ball machined on the end of the probe rod.  I 
figured I could find a ruby
ball with a drilled hole somewhere relatively cheap and make it even better.

Anyway, Mach is set up with some routines for probing edges and the 
center of holes, and this
has apparently been done to some extent in EMC, also.  There seems to be 
a hole finding routine
in nc_progs.  The center of a hole needs no information about the probe, 
just that it is centered to the
spindle and the ball is spherical.  To pick up an edge of a part 
directly (without the above-mentioned
corner fixture) the routine needs to know the diameter of the probe 
ball.  And, then, it would be
most convenient if it could do the same thing the touch-off button does 
in Axis, for both X and Y.
This would be really convenient, as I always fumble with whether I 
should enter +radius or
-radius for the touch-off value.  I have to always do G1 F10 X0 Y0 after 
touching off to catch when
I have done it wrong.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] touch probe routines

[samco]

I have been using these from chris

http://timeguy.com/cradek/01262579508

I got a renishaw knockoff from ebay that seems to work really well... And all 
the work was done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOi51ogqelsfeature=youtu.be

On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 13:04:36 -0500
 Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:
 Stuart Stevenson wrote:
  My preferred probe calibration protocol:
 
  clamp a known diameter hole (ex. dial bore gage master) to the machine table
  determine XY location of the hole (test indicator in the spindle?
 I've seen these edge locators with an inside corner and a hole centered 
 over the intersection of the
 sides of the corner.  I don't know how to make one of these fixtures 
 accurately.  A good one is
 probably somewhat expensive.
 
 Steve Stallings had a $120 touch probe made by Wildhorse Innovations (I 
 think he paid
 $140 but they have reduced the price.)  It is modeled after the patented 
 Renishaw probe that recently
 expired.  It has a steel ball machined on the end of the probe rod.  I 
 figured I could find a ruby
 ball with a drilled hole somewhere relatively cheap and make it even better.
 
 Anyway, Mach is set up with some routines for probing edges and the 
 center of holes, and this
 has apparently been done to some extent in EMC, also.  There seems to be 
 a hole finding routine
 in nc_progs.  The center of a hole needs no information about the probe, 
 just that it is centered to the
 spindle and the ball is spherical.  To pick up an edge of a part 
 directly (without the above-mentioned
 corner fixture) the routine needs to know the diameter of the probe 
 ball.  And, then, it would be
 most convenient if it could do the same thing the touch-off button does 
 in Axis, for both X and Y.
 This would be really convenient, as I always fumble with whether I 
 should enter +radius or
 -radius for the touch-off value.  I have to always do G1 F10 X0 Y0 after 
 touching off to catch when
 I have done it wrong.
 
 Jon
 
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Re: [Emc-users] touch probe routines

[andy pugh]

On 2 July 2011 19:04, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:

  It has a steel ball machined on the end of the probe rod.  I
 figured I could find a ruby
 ball with a drilled hole somewhere relatively cheap and make it even better.

Check eBay for actual Renishaw probe tips, they occasionally turn up
not to expensive.
http://cgi.ebay.com/RENISHAW-M4-RUBY-BALL-STYLUS-A-5000-6350-NEW-/290481017645
(But I have seen much cheaper ones)

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Re: [Emc-users] touch probe routines

[Jon Elson]

sa...@empirescreen.com wrote:
 I have been using these from chris

 http://timeguy.com/cradek/01262579508

   
Oh WOW, I didn't know Chris had this on his web site!

Thanks,

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Touch probe functionality

[Dean Hedin]

I did this in EMC 1.  At that time I had to write a special program to do this.
The program talked to emc through NML and wrote out the g-code file.  
 
However I believe this can now be done in EMC2 with just a g-code sequence.

Be advised that it takes a long time to probe even a small area in this fashion.

I did a 4x5x1/2 region at .01 inch resolution and it took something like 4-5 
hours.

Because of this time issue I moved on to looking for other digitization 
solutions. 

- Original Message - 
From: Jack Coats [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 7:04 PM
Subject: [Emc-users] Touch probe functionality


I saw this question asked, but I never saw an answer.
 
 From what I have seen it looks like the ABILITY is there, but my 
 understanding of
 HOW TO is a little weak.
 
 In my vision of a perfect world (yes, dreaming, again), it would be nice 
 to issue
 a command, or run a routing where I could give it, starting xyz and 
 ending XYZ
 (for a 3 dimension rectangular solid) and a 'spacing' unit (.01 or .1 or 
 1, or whatever
 depending on the units and a probe would start at one corner and probe 
 to the other
 scanning the rectangular area.  It might need a probe tool diameter and 
 a  'safe space' (how
 far above the upper Z to go to ensure clearance when going to the next 
 point.
 
 What I would like for output is something that is a point cloud, either 
 as just points (x,y,z)
 or in another format that might be used in the image-to-gcode program 
 that is with EMC2.
 ref: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/gui/image-to-gcode/index.html
 
 This would allow 'copying parts' and the such.  Yes, I expect it 
 could/would be slow,
 but getting the job done is more important than time.
 
 Could someone point me down the right path?  I would love to add the 
 docs of 'how to'
 to the EMC wiki if I can get it to work!
 
 ... Jack
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Touch probe functionality

[Jack Coats]

I hate answering my own messages, but I found what I wanted.  I promise, 
I tried to look first
before I posted, but life happens.

There are samples in /usr/share/emc/ of .ngc files that deal with probes 
and logging data.


like:

gridprobe.ngc
probe-hole.ngc
smartprobe.ngc
tool-length-probe.ngc

... Jack

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Re: [Emc-users] Touch probe functionality

[Andi Frommel]

hi Kim

i've just done something like that for qualifying my converted mill:

http://homepage.bluewin.ch/andyfrommel/6101.html
(sorry, it's still in german... but lots of pics)

i selected the pin on the parport, where the prober was connected to,
as the probe input and used the G38.2 command for probing.
to get the coords you can make use of ' probeopen' 

i used this code snippet to qualify the probe itself by measuring the z-coord
at the same xy pos 50 times.

(PROBEOPEN ProbeCalib.txt)
F#10
G1Z#5
O1 while [#4 lt #3]  (Schleifen-Zähler  Anzahl)
 F#11
 G1Z#6   (runter zu Anfangspunkt)
 F#12
 G38.2Z#7(runter bis Taster)
 G91 (Incremetal Mode)
 G1Z#8   (bisschen hoch)
 F#13
 G38.2Z#9(runter bis Taster)
 G90 (Absolut Mode)
 F#11
 G1Z#6
 #4=[#4+1]   (inkrement Schleifen-Zähler)
O1 endwhile
(PROBECLOSE) (Logfile schliessen)

i hope this gives you some light...
br andy


Ursprüngliche Nachricht
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Datum: 24.09.2008 20:56
An: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Betreff: [Emc-users] Touch probe functionality

Hi all,

Thinking of making a touchprobe, but Im missing the link between the probe 
itself and EMC controll. 

Is there a special piece of code that needs to be run to locate a corner (tell 
EMC to do the moves), or it this 
already know to EMC.. 

What about logging a point cloud.. is this something EMC can do..

Best Regards
Kim 
Mortensen-
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Re: [Emc-users] Touch probe functionality

[Kim Mortensen]

ok thanks,

It tells me that there is some special behavior needed..

Thanks for the code, ill try ti reverseingeneer (Your comments are not much 
help (-: )

Best Regards
Kim Mortensen - Denmark.

-Original Message-
From: Andi Frommel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 24. september 2008 21:17
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Touch probe functionality


hi Kim

i've just done something like that for qualifying my converted mill:

http://homepage.bluewin.ch/andyfrommel/6101.html
(sorry, it's still in german... but lots of pics)

i selected the pin on the parport, where the prober was connected to,
as the probe input and used the G38.2 command for probing.
to get the coords you can make use of ' probeopen' 

i used this code snippet to qualify the probe itself by measuring the z-coord
at the same xy pos 50 times.

(PROBEOPEN ProbeCalib.txt)
F#10
G1Z#5
O1 while [#4 lt #3]  (Schleifen-Zähler  Anzahl)
 F#11
 G1Z#6   (runter zu Anfangspunkt)
 F#12
 G38.2Z#7(runter bis Taster)
 G91 (Incremetal Mode)
 G1Z#8   (bisschen hoch)
 F#13
 G38.2Z#9(runter bis Taster)
 G90 (Absolut Mode)
 F#11
 G1Z#6
 #4=[#4+1]   (inkrement Schleifen-Zähler)
O1 endwhile
(PROBECLOSE) (Logfile schliessen)

i hope this gives you some light...
br andy


Ursprüngliche Nachricht
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Datum: 24.09.2008 20:56
An: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Betreff: [Emc-users] Touch probe functionality

Hi all,

Thinking of making a touchprobe, but Im missing the link between the probe 
itself and EMC controll. 

Is there a special piece of code that needs to be run to locate a corner (tell 
EMC to do the moves), or it this 
already know to EMC.. 

What about logging a point cloud.. is this something EMC can do..

Best Regards
Kim 
Mortensen-
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK  win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users




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Re: [Emc-users] Touch probe functionality

[Chris Radek]

On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 09:50:57PM +0200, Kim Mortensen wrote:
 ok thanks,
 
 It tells me that there is some special behavior needed..
 
 Thanks for the code, ill try ti reverseingeneer (Your comments are not much 
 help (-: )
 
 Best Regards
 Kim Mortensen - Denmark.

Be aware that in CVS trunk there are new probing modes that let you
do more advanced things.  These will be in the not-yet released 2.3
versions, but if you want to build and run trunk you can.

http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode_main.html#G38.x%20Straight%20Probe



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