Lee is right that small cars HAVE had some modest success in the US, mostly
for non-US manufacturers.
I think the problem is that US automakers just don't want to bother with
modest success.
Maybe it's not entirely that they don't want to, but also that they can't.
In recent decades we've
I agree completely, but thought that it was the opposite of shaming. They just
thought that they were missing out on the new craze.
- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> On Jul 25, 2020, at 1:48 PM, Willie via EV wrote:
>
>
>
>> On 7/25/20 11:02 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV
EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
So, those are such great cars that sell well - why aren't they being sold in
the US? Could it possibly be because the demand for small cars isn't there?
Sure. Small cars don't sell well here. They never have. it's cultural.
America is the land of the
On 7/25/20 11:02 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
Sure. Small cars don't sell well here. They never have. it's cultural.
America is the land of the supersized.
It wasn't foreordained. I see several factors that has led us, as a
country, astray.
1) At the top of the list is cheap
On 25 Jul 2020 at 7:52, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:
> So, those are such great cars that sell well - why aren't they being sold in
> the US? Could it possibly be because the demand for small cars isn't there?
Sure. Small cars don't sell well here. They never have. it's cultural.
America is
Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:
OEMs were never “shamed” into bringing EVs into U.S.. Regulations, and
the cost of NOT doing so did it.
Willie via EV wrote:> Well, "the cost of NOT doing so" is, at least in
part, from the threat
of losing their ICE market. That, due to Tesla success in
By the cost of NOT doing so, I didn’t mean their ICE market. I meant cost of
credits, costs of non-compliance.
One important thing Tesla did (among a long and great list) was provide a
barrier to regulatory backsliding. They also showed that there could be great
demand for great EVs, and
On 7/25/20 5:19 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:
OEMs were never “shamed” into bringing EVs into U.S.. Regulations, and the cost
of NOT doing so did it.
Well, "the cost of NOT doing so" is, at least in part, from the threat
of losing their ICE market. That, due to Tesla success in
On 7/25/20 5:19 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:
OEMs were never “shamed” into bringing EVs into U.S.. Regulations, and the cost
of NOT doing so did it.
Well, "the cost of NOT doing so" is, at least in part, from the threat
of losing their ICE market. That, due to Tesla success in
OEMs were never “shamed” into bringing EVs into U.S.. Regulations, and the cost
of NOT doing so did it.
- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> On Jul 24, 2020, at 9:46 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:
>
> From: Peri Hartman
>> I want a cheaper Tesla, too. But I think Willie is right. If
On Sat Jul 25 02:22:46 PDT 2020 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>In the meantime, Renault and VW haven't sat on their hands. The updated Zoe
>and the upcoming VW ID.3 are competent and attractive EVs with plenty of
>range. The Zoe offers 80% of the Model 3 LR's range at 43% of its EU price -
>29% of it
On Sat Jul 25 05:34:18 PDT 2020 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>> How much of a dealer discount below MSRP did you get on your Tesla? :-)
You do realize that MSRP is an imaginary number that has no basis in reality?
It's chosen to let the Dealers show you what a great deal they are giving you.
--
On 7/24/20 7:37 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
How much of a dealer discount below MSRP did you get on your Tesla? :-)
MANY, including me, consider the Tesla direct sales model to be an
enormous improvement over the franchised dealer model where MSRPs are
meaningless.
Tesla DOES
From: Peri Hartman
>I want a cheaper Tesla, too. But I think Willie is right. If Tesla had
>tried to make a cheap model sooner, they would have only sold a trickle.
>That's not a good way for a startup to survive. Selling into to the
>masses will be a low profit cut throat market. I think that
--- Original Message --
From: "EVDL Administrator via EV"
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
Cc: "EVDL Administrator"
Sent: 24-Jul-20 8:18:55 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: $40k Nissan Ariya fwd .jp EV r:300mi
On 24 Jul 2020 at 12:39, Willie via EV wrote:
On 24 Jul 2020 at 18:34, paul dove via EV wrote:
> .It has a 54KWh battery. What's the Leaf have? 24... 30 at any rate
Leaf hasn't been that feeble in quite a while. It's 62kWh (226mi EPA) in
the Plus version ($40k), 40kWh (149mi EPA) in the base version ($31.6k).
>From what I read online,
On 24 Jul 2020 at 12:39, Willie via EV wrote:
> I continue to be amused
Says the guy who, if I'm not mistake, has multiple Teslas. :-\
Lots of us can't even afford ONE Tesla, and we are not so amused. So it's
heartening to read that Tesla is finally getting on track to an affordable
EV,
That is not the least of what is wrong with there overpriced Tesla theories.It
has a 54KWh battery. What's the Leaf have? 24... 30 at any rate Tesla chose to
compete with ICE specs.Better choice.
On Friday, July 24, 2020, 12:39:53 PM CDT, Willie via EV
wrote:
On 7/21/20 3:11 PM,
On 7/21/20 3:11 PM, Bobby Keeland via EV wrote:
We bought our Tesla Model 3 for $35,000. It was ordered on March 30, 2016
and received on May, 2019.
I haven't before seen testimony that anyone had actually purchased a
$35k Tesla. Thanks for confirming.
I continue to be amused by those
Hmmm.
This is just physics. I worked on chargers and charging software.
Most LiIon charge algorithms usw CC/CV where in the beginning the current is
set to the maximum the battery can handle.
When the maximum voltage is reached the control changes to constant voltage
mode where the current
Michael Ross via EV wrote:
I always thought they took the buffer from both the high and low ends of
SOC%. You don't want to totally deplete or charge a pack to get the longest
life from it.
I agree. We know that cells are damaged by either over-charging or
under-charging. We also know that
I always thought they took the buffer from both the high and low ends of
SOC%. You don't want to totally deplete or charge a pack to get the longest
life from it.
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 10:43 PM Bobby Keeland via EV
wrote:
> It is interesting. I never thought about whether Tesla took the
The positive electrode becomes very reactive at near fully charged and this
damages the electrolyte. As mentioned charging the last bit is a slow
process. So Tesla limits the charging to extend battery life and to make
charging to "100%" faster.
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 5:23 PM Peter VanDerWal via
Are you sure about that? Rapid Charging LiIon typically slows down as you near
full charge.
July 22, 2020 9:41 AM, "Willie via EV" wrote:
> On 7/22/20 12:21 PM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:
>
>> On Wed Jul 22 08:33:19 PDT 2020 dov...@bellsouth.net said:
>>> At any rate Tesla doesn't let you
Not likely, doesn't make any sense considering they recommend not charging all
the way and it's know this does the most damage.
Their app lets you set to Charge percent so makes sense the software would
limit the top voltage.
At any rate Tesla doesn't let you use the whole battery anyway even
It is interesting. I never thought about whether Tesla took the software
limited part of the charge from the top or the bottom of the battery pack.
I'm sure glad that I normally charge to only 85% and rarely take the
battery pack below 30%.
BobK
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 11:58 AM Willie via EV
On 7/22/20 12:21 PM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:
On Wed Jul 22 08:33:19 PDT 2020 dov...@bellsouth.net said:
At any rate Tesla doesn't let you use the whole battery anyway even at 100%
charged it is not because they gave people temporary range increases during the
Florida Hurricane.
Did they
On Wed Jul 22 08:33:19 PDT 2020 dov...@bellsouth.net said:
>At any rate Tesla doesn't let you use the whole battery anyway even at 100%
>charged it is not because they gave people temporary range increases during
>the Florida Hurricane.
Did they need to do more charging to get that extra range?
It's longer on the outside, but roughly the same on the inside (which is where
it counts). Well actually, the Bolt has about 15% MORE cargo volume than the
Ariya.
The low end Model 3 has roughly the same range as the base model Ariya, despite
having a battery pack that is 9kwh smaller(at
On Tue Jul 21 20:12:13 PDT 2020 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>outlet and did not charge us anything. We are quite satisfied with our 220
>mile range battery. Because the battery pack actually has a range of 240
>miles, but is software limited we never have charged it to 100%.
Depends. If Tesla is
We ordered a standard range battery and black exterior paint. Any other
paint color was an additional $1,000. What we received was a standard range
plus that had an additional 20 miles of range. In addition we had autopilot
and a premium audio system. After a few months Tesla sent a message to me
We ordered a standard range battery and black exterior paint. The long
range battery pack was $9,000 extra and any other paint color was an
additional $1,000. What we received was a standard range plus that had an
additional 20 miles of range. In addition we had autopilot and a premium
audio
On 21 Jul 2020 at 15:11, Bobby Keeland via EV wrote:
> We bought our Tesla Model 3 for $35,000. It was ordered on March 30, 2016 and
> received on May, 2019.
Interesting! That's a much more reasonable price, and a decent value for
anyone who's OK with a mid-size sedan.
What's your range, if
We bought our Tesla Model 3 for $35,000. It was ordered on March 30, 2016
and received on May, 2019.
On Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 12:33 PM EVDL Administrator via EV
wrote:
> On 21 Jul 2020 at 6:05, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote:
>
> > Only it's pretty much exactly the same size as a Chevy Bolt or a
On 21 Jul 2020 at 6:05, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote:
> Only it's pretty much exactly the same size as a Chevy Bolt or a Hyundai Kona,
> or a Tesla Model 3 for that matter. It costs the same or slightly more than
> those.
Actually at about 182" long (my gauge of how easy a car is to park) it's
Not only that, but the author claims that it's "new and unique" just the right
size, cheaper than the competition, etc. etc.
Only it's pretty much exactly the same size as a Chevy Bolt or a Hyundai Kona,
or a Tesla Model 3 for that matter. It costs the same or slightly more than
those. It
On 20 Jul 2020 at 17:00, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> The Electric Car Everyone Wants Has Finally Been Revealed
Maybe I'm being too grouchy, not that that would be anything new, but when I
read stuff like this I want to reach out, grab the writer, and give him a
good hard shake. Where does he
: "evln"
Sent: 19-Jul-20 12:23:52 PM
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: $40k Nissan Ariya fwd .jp EV r:300mi
https://www.gearpatrol.com/cars/a33323142/nissan-ariya-electric-crossover-revealed/
The Electric Car Everyone Wants Has Finally Been Revealed
Jul 15, 2020 Buyers want a fun, affordabl
https://www.gearpatrol.com/cars/a33323142/nissan-ariya-electric-crossover-revealed/
The Electric Car Everyone Wants Has Finally Been Revealed
Jul 15, 2020 Buyers want a fun, affordable, reasonably-sized electric car.
Nissan may have delivered ... something in the middle: an EV that looks like
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