On 5 Feb 2022 at 17:11, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> Using senses superior to humans will make FSD very dangerous as it will
> drive thru conditions where a sane person would almost stop.
One of the trends of the last few decades that concerns me is a fetish for
rules. There's less and
On Sat Feb 05 09:11:28 PST 2022 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>I trust a half capable AI over a human ruled by hormones, glare, cellphones
>and a host of other distractions to enumerable to mention. Using senses
>superior to humans will make FSD very dangerous as it will drive thru
>conditions where
Tesla notified all users that FSD is not yet atonomus. AI will never rest or
be distracted. Prevention of wear is not a goal of legal driving. AI doesn't
get road rage. FSD beta is the most cost effective way to bring full FSD to
fruition. The law says you must make a full and complete stop
I am on the same page as you.
On Thursday, February 3, 2022, 05:14:21 PM CST, John Lussmyer via EV
wrote:
On Thu Feb 03 08:08:13 PST 2022 dov...@bellsouth.net said:
>Results: Stop sign violations accounted for about 70% of all crashes.
>Typically these crashes were angular
So, you are saying that a very powerful computer that is specifically designed
to detect things that might cause a collision, is just as bad as the average
half-asleep, fiddling with their phone, human driver?
It did not make the decision. A human told it to do so. So now that option is
being
Some years ago when self-driving was just emerging, the engineers
implemented the exact vehicle code and made the car come to a full
stop, before the white line and await its turn.
What the practice provided on the streets was that the vehicle was too
polite, they had a large number of incidents
On Thu Feb 03 08:08:13 PST 2022 dov...@bellsouth.net said:
>Results: Stop sign violations accounted for about 70% of all crashes.
>Typically these crashes were angular collisions. Among crashes not involving
>stop violations, rear-end crashes were most common, accounting for about 12%
>of all
It is obvious if you give any thought that laws do not constrain a car to
the safest paths. For example, woud you expect a driver or an automobile *not
*to cross a double yellow line to avoid something in the road or an
incorrectly driven oncoming vehicle?
I don't see why rolling stops are a
On 3 Feb 2022 at 7:27, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:
> You didn't answer the question, you just re-iterated that they shouldn't be
> allowed to be done by an advanced AI system with far better observation
> capabilities than a human.
>
> Why shouldn't an AI be allowed to do them?
Completely aside
Results: Stop sign violations accounted for about 70% of all crashes.
Typically these crashes were angular collisions. Among crashes not involving
stop violations, rear-end crashes were most common, accounting for about 12% of
all crashes. Stop sign violation crashes were classified into
On Wed Feb 02 21:58:43 PST 2022 somebody said:
>On Wed Feb 02 10:17:21 PST 2022 John Lussmyer said:
>
>>I detest rolling stops. Major reason for accidents. Any one who doesn't make
>>a full stop every time they encounter a stop sign or right on red is a moron.
>>Allowing drivers to select this
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 10:27:47 -0800 (PST)
From: John Lussmyer
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] tesla's sneaky rolling stops
Message-ID: <1446898146.19.1643826467941.JavaMail.John@Cougar>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On
On Wed Feb 02 10:17:21 PST 2022 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>I detest rolling stops. Major reason for accidents. Any one who doesn't make a
>full stop every time they encounter a stop sign or right on red is a moron.
>Allowing drivers to select this option is criminal. Stopping should be a
>habit.
But if you read how It works, it only does the rolling stop if no other cars
are at the intersection. So the question is this. If no one is in the forest
and a tree falls, does it make a sound?
I detest rolling stops. Major reason for accidents. Any one who doesn't make a
full stop every
EV List Lackey
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] tesla's sneaky rolling stops
>
>> On 1 Feb 2022 at 17:36, paul dove via EV wrote:
>>
>> Dangerous trend to me. Why should your car make you follow the law?
>
> Would you really want your car to cause you to BREAK the law? Because
and a tree falls, does it make a sound?
-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of EV List Lackey via
EV
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2022 1:19 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: EV List Lackey
Subject: Re: [EVDL] tesla's sneaky rolling stops
On 1 Feb 2022
"
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'"
Cc: "Mark Grasser" ; "'EV List Lackey'"
Sent: 01-Feb-22 13:51:55
Subject: Re: [EVDL] tesla's sneaky rolling stops
But if you read how It works, it only does the rolling stop if no other cars
are at the intersection.
EV
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2022 1:19 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: EV List Lackey
Subject: Re: [EVDL] tesla's sneaky rolling stops
On 1 Feb 2022 at 17:36, paul dove via EV wrote:
> Dangerous trend to me. Why should your car make you follow the law?
Would you really want y
Why shouldn't we encourage more law compliance by having any / all self
driving cars obey the law?
Instead, we're conceding that the laws are ineffective and need to be
changed, if we're adjusting the self-driving cars to be consistent
law-breakers like every other driver out there.
We
If it is a setting then the car is just doing what I want the same as every
other driver.
On Tuesday, February 1, 2022, 01:19:00 PM CST, EV List Lackey via EV
wrote:
On 1 Feb 2022 at 17:36, paul dove via EV wrote:
> Dangerous trend to me. Why should your car make you follow the
On 1 Feb 2022 at 17:36, paul dove via EV wrote:
> Dangerous trend to me. Why should your car make you follow the law?
Would you really want your car to cause you to BREAK the law? Because
that's what Tesla's rolling stop is doing.
This "feature" hardly surprising from Elon Musk, who's
Dangerous trend to me. Why should your car make you follow the law?
As far as 4 way stops those are not consistent state to state. In Alabama the
law says that drivers decide who goes next by signaling each other. No order of
prescience.
On Tuesday, February 1, 2022, 11:07:29 AM CST, Jay
On Tue Feb 01 08:08:46 PST 2022 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>Tesla recall: ?Full Self-Driving? software runs stop signs
>https://www.seattletimes.com/business/tesla-recall-full-self-driving-software-runs-stop-signs/
>
>Tesla is recalling nearly 54,000 cars and SUVs because their ?Full
>Self-Driving?
Waymo also allows programs their vehicles to do an "alternating cross"
4-way stop pattern which is commonly used in practice, but not
technically legal.
(Where pairs of vehicles will cross a 4 way stop in perpendicular
directions, regardless of the exact order of arrival). [As well as
Tesla recall: ‘Full Self-Driving’ software runs stop signs
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/tesla-recall-full-self-driving-software-runs-stop-signs/
Tesla is recalling nearly 54,000 cars and SUVs because their “Full
Self-Driving” software lets them roll through stop signs without coming
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