[EVDL] EVLN: ConnectMyEv Auton EVSE> Park And Walk Away, ABB 450kW ebus EVSE

2015-10-19 Thread brucedp5 via EV


'ABB's 150, 300 or 450kW automated charging propels electric buses'

http://www.fastcoexist.com/3052149/this-autonomous-ev-charger-lets-you-park-and-walk-away
This Autonomous EV Charger Lets You Park And Walk Away
[20151013]  Ben Schiller

[videos  
http://d.fastcompany.net/multisite_files/fastcompany/imagecache/1280/poster/2015/10/3052149-poster-p-1-this-autonomous-ev-charger-lets-you-park-and-walk-away.mp4

https://youtu.be/POUgA7WnkGw
Deployment And App
ConnectMyEV Jun 13, 2015
]

Pull into your garage and forget the rest. You'll be charging when you get
back.

It's not particularly onerous to have to plug in your electric vehicle, but
it's intriguing that a machine could do all the charging for you. The
ConnectMyEv charger is autonomous. So you can park and walk away knowing
that powering up is taking place in your absence.

The device, developed in Northern California by U.C. Berkeley-trained
engineer Satyajit Patwardhan, sits waiting to find an appropriate car to
mate. When yours is in its presence, it extends an arm that attaches to a
unit underneath the vehicle. There, it charges using a conductive charging
method: metal touching metal.

Patwardhan says it charges as fast as a conventional plug-in charger, though
it's more expensive. It will cost about $1,500 when it goes on sale next
year, compared to $600 to $700 for a standard wall-mounted home charger
(Tesla is also working on autonomous charging). ConnectMyEv is now sending
off units to be tested with car manufacturers and their first-tier
suppliers.

You don't need to be particularly accurate when parking: anywhere within a
range of two feet works fine. "There is nothing wrong with plug-in parking,"
Patwardhan says. "But this is a modern-day convenience." Whether it's worth
the premium price, we're not completely sure.
[© 2015 Mansueto Ventures]
...
http://www.connectmyev.com/
ConnectMyEv auton EVSE



http://www.greentechlead.com/electric-vehicle/abb-propels-electric-buses-with-new-automated-charging-system-28630
ABB propels electric buses with new automated charging system
October 15, 2015  Rajani Baburajan

[image
http://www.greentechlead.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/ABB-electric-bus-charger.jpg
(overhead EVSE)
]

ABB, a provider of power and automation technology, has announced the launch
of an automated fast charging system that allows electric buses drive 24/7,
while also enabling zero emission.

The new charging system is based on IEC 61851-23, the international standard
for fast charging electric vehicles.

With its automated rooftop connection and a typical charge time of 4–6
minutes, the system can easily be integrated in existing bus lines by
installing fast chargers at end points, terminals, depots and/or
intermediate stops, ABB said.

The system is offered in 150 kW, 300 kW or 450 kW modules.

With this modular system, ABB aims to solve the key problems associated with
large scale adoption of zero emission electric buses: long charging times
and short driving range belong to the past.

Connectivity and remote management high uptime and fast service response are
key for charging electric buses at high frequency bus lines, ABB says.

The IEC 61851-23 standard ensures the appropriate safety systems are in
place, the electrical design is in accordance with regulations, and the
systems architecture and working principle are supported by the wider
automotive community in the future.

In a favorable industry response for the system, ABB in July 2014 announced
partnership with Volvo bus to jointly market fast chargers and buses.

“We are very excited about this cooperation, as it clearly shows that the
ABB automated fast charging solution helps cities and bus manufacturers to
become successful in offering zero emission bus transport to the
communities” said Urs Waelchli, general manager of ABB’s product group
Electric Vehicle Charging Infrastructure.

The automated fast charger will be offered with other related services from
ABB including remote diagnostics, remote management and over-the-air
software upgradeability.

ABB’s fast charging system will be shown to the public for the first time in
Kortrijk, Belgium at the Busworld 2015 show.
[© 2015 - GreentechLead.com]




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[EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC Quick-Charging Matter

2015-10-19 Thread brucedp5 via EV


http://www.greencarreports.com/news/110_buying-an-electric-car-why-charging-rate-dc-quick-charging-matter
Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC Quick-Charging Matter
By John Voelcker  Oct 14, 2015  ht2 Brian Henderson

[images  
http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/nrg-evgo-electric-car-charging-station_100499146_l.jpg
NRG eVgo electric-car charging station

http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/powerpost-level-1-electric-car-charging-stations-at-portland-international-airport_100523569_l.jpg
PowerPost Level 1 electric-car charging stations at Portland International
Airport

http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/eaton-chademo-dc-quick-charging-station-mitsubishi-headquarters-cypress-ca_100355636_m.jpg
Eaton CHAdeMO DC quick charging station, Mitsubishi headquarters, Cypress,
CA

http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/bmw-i3-and-volkswagen-e-golf-electric-cars-using-combined-charging-system-ccs-dc-fast-charging_100498184_l.jpg
BMW i3 and Volkswagen e-Golf electric cars using Combined Charging System
(CCS) DC fast charging
]

We all know how to compare horsepower, acceleration, and gas mileage.
Practical car buyers know to look at cargo volume, too.

But when it comes to buying your first electric car, there are a few things
you need to know about charging.

Like the better-known measurements, the rate at which a plug-in car can
charge its battery is a specification you should ask about before you sign
on the line.

That's because the charging rate directly affects the time it takes for the
car to recharge the battery to its full capacity, and hence its full rated
range.

In broad strokes, if you're confident that you can charge your car at home
every night--or at work every day--then recharge rate may not be quite so
important.

But it could be more important to the next buyer, so we still advise being
aware of the rate.

And whether a car offers the ability to use DC quick-charging stations,
which are totally different from conventional 240-Volt "Level 2" charging,
is always important.

DC quick-charging generally recharges the battery to 80 percent of its
capacity in around 30 minutes, as compared to several hours on Level 2
charging. (That last 20 percent takes a lot longer.)

In other words, if you have the option, always go for an electric car with
DC quick-charging--and if it's optional, tick that box.

120-Volt and 240-Volt charging
Rates for onboard chargers start at 3.3 kilowatts, which is the standard for
2011-2012 Nissan Leafs, later base-model Leafs, and all 2011-2015 Chevrolet
Volts.

Later Leafs above the base model doubled that rate to 6.6 kW, and the 2016
Chevy Volt is up to 3.6 kW--which, GM says, is high enough to recharge its
18.4-kWh battery overnight even using a conventional 120-Volt household
plug.

Most battery-electric cars will require a 240-Volt Level 2 charging station
for overnight recharge, but a 24-kWh Leaf takes 9 hours for a full recharge
at 3.3 kW but 5 hours or less at 6.6 kW.

As of this year, the Leaf now offers a 30-kWh battery as well, which will
naturally take even longer to recharge. That's why the higher rate is more
important for the Leaf.

European battery-electric cars like the BMW i3 and Volkswagen e-Golf have
onboard chargers capable of rates up to 7.2 kW. Most plug-in hybrids,
however, are sticking with the 3.3- or 3.6 kW rate.

And all of those vehicles except the Tesla Model S use the same connector,
meaning that any 120-Volt or 240-Volt charging station with the expected
connector can be used to charge them up.

DC quick charging
Things get more complicated with quick charging, for which there are three
standards: CHAdeMO (used by the Nissan Leaf, Kia Soul EV, and Mitsubishi
i-MiEV), CCS (used by all U.S. and German brands), and Tesla's Supercharger,
which can be used solely by Tesla Model S and Model X vehicles.

While CHAdeMO had a head start in the U.S. market, most new DC
quick-charging stations being installed today have one cable each for
CHAdeMO and CCS.

Right now, just a handful of cars are sold in the U.S. using the CCS
standard--the low-volume Chevy Spark EV and a few German models--but more
will be coming over the couple of years, most notably the Chevrolet Bolt EV.

As of today, the U.S. Department of Energy's Alternative Fuels Data Center
shows 170 U.S. locations offering CCS fast charging (also known as "SAE
Combo"), at a total of 296 outlets.

For the CHAdeMO standard used by the Leaf, Soul EV, and i-MiEV, the numbers
are 975 locations with 1,293 outlets. The comparable figures for the Tesla
Supercharger network are 230 U.S. locations with 1,496 outlets. 

Other locator tools--including the Plugshare and ChargePoint apps--may have
slightly different numbers.

The rules
So here's how we'd break it down, as a set of rules:

Ask the seller about the recharging rate of the onboard charger

For battery-electric cars, avoid anything below 6.6 kilowatts if you can
 
   We'd also suggest avoiding battery-electric models 

[EVDL] EVLN: Bosch Targets 263 Wh/kg Li-ion packs

2015-10-19 Thread brucedp5 via EV


http://insideevs.com/bosch-targets-50-kwh-battery-weighs-190-kilograms-15-minute-charge-75/
Bosch Targets 50 kWh Battery That Weighs Only 190 Kilograms, 15-Minute
Charge To 75%
[20151014]  by Mark Kane

[images  
http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/1-CR-21625-e.jpg
Bosch is working on the battery of the future  The goal for the future is to
be able to store 50 kWh of energy in just one battery weighing 190 kg.

http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/1-CR-21624.jpg
Bosch research: Dr. Thorsten Ochs In the Bosch center for research and
advance engineering in Renningen near Stuttgart, Dr. Thorsten Ochs works on
the batteries of the future.
]

At the inauguration of the Renningen research campus, Bosch announced goals
for its battery developments.

50 kWh / 190 kg (419 lbs) → 263 Wh/kg

The 50 kWh pack should weight no more than 190 kg, so if we assume 263 Wh/kg
on the pack level (which we are not certain is correct), then the cell level
could be much higher.

Bosch expects 15% market share for electric cars around 2025, and invests
400 million euros annually in electromobility to be ready as a leading
automotive supplier for the New Energy Vehicles.

The German company also said clearly that by 2020 their batteries should be
capable of storing “twice as much energy” while costing significantly less.
Twice as much as… (no bottom value included).

Another important goal is charging capability of 15 minutes to 75% state of
charge (from an unknown state of charge). For 50 kWh, 0-75% would need at
least 150 kW.

“Current challenge: heavy weight, low energy density
Dr. Thorsten Ochs, head of battery technology R at the new Bosch
research campus in Renningen, explains what will be necessary for progress
in battery technology: “To achieve widespread acceptance of electromobility,
mid-sized vehicles need to have 50 kilowatt hours of usable energy.” With
conventional lead batteries, this would mean increasing the weight of the
battery to 1.9 metric tons, even without wiring and the holder. That is the
same weight as a modern-day mid-sized sedan, including occupants and
luggage. At a weight of 19 kilograms, a conventional lead battery – as found
today in nearly every car for powering their starters – stores a
comparatively low 0.5 kilowatt hours.

The goal: a weight of just 190 kilograms, recharged in 15 minutes
Today’s lithium-ion batteries are superior in this respect. They store
more than three times the amount of energy per kilogram. At a weight of 230
kilograms, the battery of a modern-day electric car provides approximately
18 to 30 kilowatt hours. But to achieve the desired 50 kilowatt hours, a
battery weighing 380 to 600 kilograms would be necessary. With his
colleagues around the world, Ochs is therefore working on energy storage
media with even better performance. Their goal: to pack 50 kilowatt hours
into 190 kilograms. In addition, the researchers are looking to
significantly shorten the time a car needs to recharge. “Our new batteries
should be capable of being loaded to 75 percent in less than 15 minutes,”
Ochs says.

Ochs and his colleagues firmly believe that improved lithium technology
will make it possible to achieve these goals. “There is still a long way to
go when it comes to lithium,” Ochs says. To make progress in this area, his
team in Renningen is working closely with Bosch experts in Shanghai and Palo
Alto. And as a further measure to advance lithium-ion battery research,
Bosch has established the Lithium Energy and Power GmbH & Co. KG joint
venture with GS Yuasa and the Mitsubishi Corporation.

More space for electrical power – thanks to start-up technology from
Silicon Valley

In theory, the solution sounds simple: “The more lithium ions you have
in a battery, the more electrons – and thus the more energy – you can store
in the same space,” Ochs says. But because researchers need to improve cells
at the atomic and molecular level, putting this into practice is a
challenge. One of the main keys to achieving this goal is to reduce the
proportion of graphite in the anode (the positively charged part of the
battery), or do without graphite altogether. Using lithium instead of
graphite would make it possible to store up to three times as much energy in
the same space. Ochs and his colleagues have already developed many
approaches for removing the graphite and replacing it with other materials.
The Bosch CEO Volkmar Denner recently presented a prototype solution at the
IAA. Thanks to its purchase of Seeo Inc., a start-up based in Silicon
Valley, Bosch has now acquired crucial practical expertise when it comes to
making innovative solid-state batteries. Such batteries have one other
decisive advantage: they can do without any liquid electrolyte. Such an
electrolyte is to be found in conventional lithium-ion batteries, where, in
certain circumstances, it can pose a safety risk.

Advantages in a number of areas
Improved lithium-ion batteries 

[EVDL] EVLN: Volvo's 300-mile EV in 2019> Tesla-3 EV rival

2015-10-19 Thread brucedp5 via EV


http://www.evo.co.uk/volvo/16814/volvos-300-mile-electric-car-to-challenge-tesla-in-2019
Volvo's 300-mile electric car to challenge Tesla in 2019
Antony Ingram  15 Oct 2015

New saloon will head Volvo's plug-in car plans and rival Tesla for
performance

Volvo has announced plans to launch an all-electric saloon in 2019, set to
tackle Tesla Motors head-on with a 300-mile range and high levels of
performance ...

A similarly-powered S90 saloon is set to follow, but it’s Volvo’s
all-electric Tesla rival that could prove most significant. Expected to be
similar in size to the current Volvo S60 and built on Volvo’s Scalable
Product Architecture (SPA), the company suggests the car will cover more
than 300 miles on a charge. Volvo's existing research already shows that
Twin-Engine drivers cover 50 per cent of their mileage on electric power ...

Similar in size to the upcoming Tesla Model 3 – expected to arrive in 2017 –
Volvo also hints at Tesla-rivalling performance. It’s not the only Tesla
model in the Swedish car maker’s sights: The nature of SPA means the
all-electric drivetrain could also be used in the XC60, giving Volvo a rival
for the recently-launched Tesla Model X.

‘We believe that the time has come for electrified cars to cease being a
niche technology’ explained Håkan Samuelsson, President and CEO of Volvo
Cars. Samuelsson is confident that in just two years’ time, a tenth of
Volvo’s global sales will feature some form of electrification.

Since Volvo plans to increase sales from an expected half a million in 2015
to 800,000 by 2020, as many as 80,000 electrified Volvos could find homes
each year by 2020.

Tesla Motors sells relatively small numbers of vehicles compared to some of
the world's larger automakers, but its focus on electrification and recently
autonomous driving have put its technological capabilities in the spotlight.

If Volvo can produce cars with similar performance with widespread use of
electrification, the American company may soon have a fight on its hands.
[© Dennis Publishing]
...
https://www.media.volvocars.com/global/en-gb/media/pressreleases/168142/volvo-cars-unveils-global-electrification-strategy?utm_campaign=NewsAlert_5719_medium=Email_source=media.volvocars.com
[pr] Volvo Cars unveils global electrification strategy
Oct 15, 2015 | ID: 168142



http://www.t3.com/news/small-and-electric-volvo-s-vision-for-the-future
Small and electric: Volvo’s vision for the future
By Jamie Hinks  Oct 15, 2015  Smaller cars are on the way
...
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/volvos-tesla-rival-spearhead-electrified-future
Volvo's Tesla rival to spearhead electrified future
by Steve Cropley  15 October 2015  Swedish firm confirms plan to launch a
full-electric mid-sized car with 325-mile range by 2019 ...
...
http://europe.autonews.com/article/20151015/ANE/151019930/volvo-will-add-ev-extend-plug-in-hybrid-lineup
Volvo will add EV, extend plug-in hybrid lineup
October 15, 2015




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[EVDL] e-bike & ice collision on Highway40.ca> Confederation Line south

2015-10-19 Thread brucedp5 via EV


http://blackburnnews.com/uncategorized/2015/10/13/injuries-in-moped-car-crash/
Injuries in Moped, Car Crash
By Josh Boyce  October 13, 2015

Lambton OPP is investigating a collision between a car and electric bike on
Highway 40 south of Confederation Line.

Police were called to the scene just before 1am on Sunday.

Investigation revealed the electric bicycle was southbound when it was
struck by a southbound passenger car.

Both occupants of the bike were transported to hospital with injuries and
were last known to be in stable condition.

The investigation continues.
[© Blackburn Radio]
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederation_Line
The Confederation Line is a light rail transit (LRT) line under construction
in ... from Tunney's Pasture station in the west to Blair Road at Highway
174 in the ... Bayview station, a major transfer point with the north-south
Trillium Line to south Ottawa.ca ...



http://www.bayshorebroadcasting.ca/news_item.php?NewsID=78611
Moped Rear-Ended By Car
Wednesday, October 14, 2015 12:26 PM by Peter Jackson
Electric bike driver hospitalized after hit from behind by vehicle.

(Sarnia) -
The OPP are reminding drivers of cars and trucks to pay attention when
slower-moving vehicles are using our roads and highways.

The advisory comes after a moped was rear-ended by a car on Highway 40 just
south of Sarnia on Sunday.

Police say the driver and passenger on the electric bike were hospitalized
in stable condition.

No one in the car was hurt.

Lambton OPP continue to investigate.

No word on whether charges might be laid.
[© 2015 Bayshore Broadcasting]
...
http://www.1049thebeach.ca/news_item.php?NewsID=78611
Moped Rear-Ended By Car
October 14, 2015 Sarnia | by Peter Jackson  




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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Bosch Targets 263 Wh/kg Li-ion packs

2015-10-19 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On Oct 19, 2015, at 3:26 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

> Bosch Targets 50 kWh Battery That Weighs Only 190 Kilograms, 15-Minute
> Charge To 75%

That means charging at 150 kW...call it 700 amps (with rounding) at 220 volts. 
Where's that kind of power going to come from? Dump packs? It's sure not coming 
from the grid -- at least, not in residences.

On the flip side...a 25 kWh 100 kg pack that could DIScharge at 150 kW (if only 
for half a minute, ~25 kW sustained indefinitely) would be ideal for me 
personally...and, if you double the weight (which is acceptable to me, though 
obviously far from ideal), you get (within rounding) a Leaf pack that's already 
there.

b&
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC Quick-Charging Matter

2015-10-19 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV
On 19 Oct 2015 at 10:23, Ben Goren via EV wrote:

> I think it's safe to suggest that, before long, it'll be as difficult
> to find apartment complexes that lack 110 outlets for residents in
> their already-designated spaces as it is today to find apartment
> complexes lacking cable (etc.) TV and Internet access. 
> 

I'm afraid I just can't agree with this.  Unless all the oil wells dry up 
tomorrow, I think it's going to be many many years before EV charging is as 
big a deal as cable TV or internet access. 

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC Quick-Charging Matter

2015-10-19 Thread damon henry via EV
he next
> >generation of cars. Start the day with a full charge. Drive 100 miles
> >that single day and end the day with 100 miles. Plug in only for 8
> >hours, start the next day with "only" 180 miles. You could keep that
> >pattern up for over a week before you'd start to have legitimate reason
> >for range anxiety. Give the car a couple days of 12-hour charges on
> >your
> >(presumed)
> >weekend when you're only putting a few dozen miles per day on the car,
> >and you're all caught back up again. And I think it's safe to suggest
> >that what I just described is a rather extreme situation, even in
> >America.
> >Not
> >unheard of, but very unusual.
> >
> >Fast charging is nice to have, sure. But it becomes _less_ important
> >with bigger batteries, not more -- and we're emphatically headed to
> >bigger batteries. But the only time you actually _need_ fast charging
> >-- assuming overnight access to a 110 outlet is as ubiquitous as it
> >typically is -- is for road trips or other scenarios where you're
> >spending almost as much time in the car as you do in bed. And most
> >people are renting cars for road trips these days anyway
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >b&
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> >
> >
> 
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC Quick-Charging Matter

2015-10-19 Thread Jim Walls via EV
Peri said:
  > Don't forget that there is a huge percentage, 30% to 50% depending on 
how you measure, who don't have consistent access to dedicated off street 
charging.
  
 Then Ben replied:
 > Almost all those people are apartment dwellers. And I think it's safe to 
suggest that, before long, it'll be as difficult to find apartment 
complexes that lack 110 outlets for residents in their already-designated 
spaces as it is today to find apartment complexes lacking cable (etc.) TV 
and Internet access.

  
 You're making the assumption that most of those apartment dwellers HAVE a 
parking spot.  I've never lived in an apartment, but I know people who 
often have to park blocks from home because that's the closest parking.  
For example, the apartment comes with one space and both the husband and 
wife have a car.  Someone is parking on the street...
  
 Jim
  


 From: "Ben Goren via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 10:24 AM
To: "Peri Hartman" <pe...@kotatko.com>, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
<ev@lists.evdl.org>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC 
Quick-Charging Matter   
On Oct 19, 2015, at 9:57 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
wrote:

> Don't forget that there is a huge percentage, 30% to 50% depending on how 
you measure, who don't have consistent access to dedicated off street 
charging.

Almost all those people are apartment dwellers. And I think it's safe to 
suggest that, before long, it'll be as difficult to find apartment 
complexes that lack 110 outlets for residents in their already-designated 
spaces as it is today to find apartment complexes lacking cable (etc.) TV 
and Internet access.
 

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[EVDL] Nice article on KillaJoule in "Der Spiegle"

2015-10-19 Thread Bill Dube via EV
Very complimentary article in the on-line version of Der Spiegle (a 
very popular German magazine) about Eva Hakansson and her record 
breaking electric sidecar motorcycle, the KillaJoule.


Here is the article in the origininal German:
http://www.spiegel.de/auto/fahrkultur/eva-hakansson-die-schnellste-motorradfahrerin-der-welt-a-1057814.html 



Google translate doesn't do too bad of a job with the English 
translation. Here is the shortened URL for the translated article:

http://tinyurl.com/p23f6e8

Bill Dube'



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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC Quick-Charging Matter

2015-10-19 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV
It is unsustainable to expect that people without EV charging at home or
at work (both can be 115 volt) will be happy to leave their cars for hours
every day somewhewre else every single day.  Or that there will ever be
enough such public chargers.

No, the only practical answer remains (for the dail commuter), to provide
provisions for people to plug in while parked at home.  Even if this means
on-street parking having outlets.

Sure, public charging will always be needed, but I cannot image anyone
buying an EV with the idea of going somewhere else every single day to
charge and waiting till complete...

bob

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via
EV
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 12:58 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC
Quick-Charging Matter

Don't forget that there is a huge percentage, 30% to 50% depending on how
you measure, who don't have consistent access to dedicated off
street charging.   During the early adopter stage, this doesn't matter.
For the next wave of EV owners it will.  People who can't charge at home
will need to either charge at a destination - work, shopping - or while
they wait at some sort of refuling station.  Charge time will matter - a
lot.

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" 
To: "Ben Goren" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
; "brucedp5" 
Sent: 19-Oct-15 9:43:53 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC
Quick-Charging Matter

>What they actually don't understand is that EV's are refuled while
>parked and not-in-use in the ultimate of convenience.
>
>Whereas they are so used to gas cars that must be refuled somewhere
>else, while they ARE-USING the car.  A big inconvenience.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via
>EV
>Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 12:40 PM
>To: brucedp5; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC
>Quick-Charging Matter
>
>On Oct 19, 2015, at 3:24 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>
>>  In broad strokes, if you're confident that you can charge your car
>> at  home every night--or at work every day--then recharge rate may
>> not be  quite so important.
>
>They're handwaving away the most important point.
>
>People new to EVs are paranoid about the time it takes to recharge.
>People
>who've lived with an EV for a few weeks wonder what all the fuss is
>about.
>My parents went through this...Dad did a lot of searching for a cheap
>220
>charger for their new-to-them Leaf. Now, while they wouldn't turn one
>down if you offered them one for free, they have no interest in
>spending money on one.
>
>I think a lot of people unfamiliar with EVs get hung up on the time to
>charge the battery from empty, when the important metric is the time to
>charge the battery after a day's typical usage.
>
>If you figure 3 miles per kWh for a typical EV, you'll recharge at
>about
>10 MPH from a standard 110 circuit. Doesn't sound like much...but
>that's
>80 miles after 8 hours, and most of us are either asleep that long or,
>at least, spend that much time asleep plus showering and eating and the
>like.
>In practice, most people would have no trouble plugging in for 10 or 12
>hours a day at home, giving 100 - 120 miles.
>
>And, save for road trips, how many people even put 80 miles on the road
>in a given day? And on the rare days when that happens...how often does
>it happen day after day?
>
>Let's say you've got a 200-mile range EV, as is promised for the next
>generation of cars. Start the day with a full charge. Drive 100 miles
>that single day and end the day with 100 miles. Plug in only for 8
>hours, start the next day with "only" 180 miles. You could keep that
>pattern up for over a week before you'd start to have legitimate reason
>for range anxiety. Give the car a couple days of 12-hour charges on
>your
>(presumed)
>weekend when you're only putting a few dozen miles per day on the car,
>and you're all caught back up again. And I think it's safe to suggest
>that what I just described is a rather extreme situation, even in
>America.
>Not
>unheard of, but very unusual.
>
>Fast charging is nice to have, sure. But it becomes _less_ important
>with bigger batteries, not more -- and we're emphatically headed to
>bigger batteries. But the only time you actually _need_ fast charging
>-- assuming overnight access to a 110 outlet is as ubiquitous as it
>typically is -- is for road trips or other scenarios where you're
>spending almost as much time in the car as you do in bed. And most
>people are renting cars for road trips these days anyway
>
>Cheers,
>
>b&
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC Quick-Charging Matter

2015-10-19 Thread robert winfield via EV
ly is -- 
>is
>for road trips or other scenarios where you're spending almost as much
>time in the car as you do in bed. And most people are renting cars for
>road trips these days anyway
>
>Cheers,
>
>b&
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>
>

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC Quick-Charging Matter

2015-10-19 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On Oct 19, 2015, at 9:57 AM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:

> Don't forget that there is a huge percentage, 30% to 50% depending on how you 
> measure, who don't have consistent access to dedicated off street charging. 

Almost all those people are apartment dwellers. And I think it's safe to 
suggest that, before long, it'll be as difficult to find apartment complexes 
that lack 110 outlets for residents in their already-designated spaces as it is 
today to find apartment complexes lacking cable (etc.) TV and Internet access.

The remainder are going to be those in places like San Francisco where 
on-street parking is the only option, and where there aren't enough on-street 
spots to begin with. That represents a very small fraction of the population -- 
but also a rather affluent fraction. I'll bet you a cup of coffee that parking 
meters with chargers become the norm in such places.

Between those two groups, plus the overwhelming majority who already have easy 
access to an overnight plug...that's everybody. Maybe except for the homeless 
living out of their cars -- but, for better or worse, that demographic isn't 
going to be considered in these matters.

There will be fast-charging stations along the freeways, mostly at existing 
truck stops and the like. There will be some convenience stores that have a 
fast-charging station near the gas pumps. There will never be the density of 
fast-charging stations as we currently have for gas pumps -- nowhere close.

b&
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Bosch Targets 263 Wh/kg Li-ion packs

2015-10-19 Thread Mike Nickerson via EV
That is only a little above the Tesla SuperCharger rate.  I believe they charge 
at 120 kW.  It wouldn't be reasonable for residential use, but for a 
purpose-built charging station, it works.  Tesla usually has 6-8 SuperCharger 
charging stalls sharing a common infrastructure.

I'm not sure you can get that charging rate when sharing the infrastructure.

Mike


On October 19, 2015 10:11:50 AM MDT, Ben Goren via EV  wrote:
>On Oct 19, 2015, at 3:26 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>
>> Bosch Targets 50 kWh Battery That Weighs Only 190 Kilograms,
>15-Minute
>> Charge To 75%
>
>That means charging at 150 kW...call it 700 amps (with rounding) at 220
>volts. Where's that kind of power going to come from? Dump packs? It's
>sure not coming from the grid -- at least, not in residences.
>
>On the flip side...a 25 kWh 100 kg pack that could DIScharge at 150 kW
>(if only for half a minute, ~25 kW sustained indefinitely) would be
>ideal for me personally...and, if you double the weight (which is
>acceptable to me, though obviously far from ideal), you get (within
>rounding) a Leaf pack that's already there.
>
>b&
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC Quick-Charging Matter

2015-10-19 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
Jim,
You are correct.
I did live in an apartment and we had one assigned spot
(where I charged my EV truck via a 12 gauge extension cord
that I dropped down from our balcony's outdoor 110V outlet)
so my wife had to park in the street.
Typical situation is that a family has one EV and one
long-range car, in our case a hybrid (Prius) so parking
that in the street was not a problem.
If however the second car would be a plug-in hybrid
then it becomes a bit more convoluted, although I always
managed to charge well within the overnight time, so it
would be possible to charge the plug-in hybrid for a
few hours, then swap spaces and charge the EV overnight.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626  Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130  private: cvandewater.info
www.proxim.com



This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and 
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message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any unauthorized 
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prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Jim Walls via EV
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 2:25 PM
To: Ben Goren; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate,DC 
Quick-Charging Matter

Peri said:
  > Don't forget that there is a huge percentage, 30% to 50% depending on how 
you measure, who don't have consistent access to dedicated off street charging.
  
 Then Ben replied:
 > Almost all those people are apartment dwellers. And I think it's safe to 
 > suggest that, before long, it'll be as difficult to find apartment complexes 
 > that lack 110 outlets for residents in their already-designated spaces as it 
 > is today to find apartment complexes lacking cable (etc.) TV and Internet 
 > access.

  
 You're making the assumption that most of those apartment dwellers HAVE a 
parking spot.  I've never lived in an apartment, but I know people who often 
have to park blocks from home because that's the closest parking.  
For example, the apartment comes with one space and both the husband and wife 
have a car.  Someone is parking on the street...
  
 Jim
  


 From: "Ben Goren via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 10:24 AM
To: "Peri Hartman" <pe...@kotatko.com>, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
<ev@lists.evdl.org>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC 
Quick-Charging Matter   
On Oct 19, 2015, at 9:57 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:

> Don't forget that there is a huge percentage, 30% to 50% depending on 
> how
you measure, who don't have consistent access to dedicated off street charging.

Almost all those people are apartment dwellers. And I think it's safe to 
suggest that, before long, it'll be as difficult to find apartment complexes 
that lack 110 outlets for residents in their already-designated spaces as it is 
today to find apartment complexes lacking cable (etc.) TV and Internet access.
 

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC Quick-Charging Matter

2015-10-19 Thread Chris Tromley via EV
On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:

> It is unsustainable to expect that people without EV charging at home or
> at work (both can be 115 volt) will be happy to leave their cars for hours
> every day somewhewre else every single day.  Or that there will ever be
> enough such public chargers.
>
> No, the only practical answer remains (for the dail commuter), to provide
> provisions for people to plug in while parked at home.  Even if this means
> on-street parking having outlets.
>

​I'm getting more used to the idea of L1 charging being pretty useful, but
I have one remaining objection to it - L1 chargers.  Currently, using L1
charging means carrying your OEM EVSE with you and plugging it in.  You
can't always expect to have an outlet right at your parking spot, so you
also need an extension cord.  That's a significant inconvenience.  I
wouldn't mind it so much, but that could be enough for John Q. Public to
say, "What a pain.  I'm getting a gas car."

Not only that, but you're plugging in your OEM EVSE​

​and leaving it where anyone can walk away with it.  At ~$300​ a pop,
that's a significant risk.  I will likely end up with L1 charging where I
work, but with my i-MiEV's rear-fender charging port I can run an extension
cord to the outlet, leave my EVSE in the trunk, plug the charging head into
the port and lock my trunk using a latch extender (that I'll have to make)
to leave a gap for the cords.  I don't know if I'd charge in a public place
if I couldn't do that.

The longer-term solution is probably permanently-installed L1 charger cords
with the charging head attached.  Fixes both the convenience and theft
problems, but costs $200 instead of $5.
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC Quick-Charging Matter

2015-10-19 Thread Brandon Hines via EV
st, spend that much time asleep plus showering and eating and the 
>> like.
>> In practice, most people would have no trouble plugging in for 10 or 12
>> hours a day at home, giving 100 - 120 miles.
>>
>> And, save for road trips, how many people even put 80 miles on the road 
>> in
>> a given day? And on the rare days when that happens...how often does it
>> happen day after day?
>>
>> Let's say you've got a 200-mile range EV, as is promised for the next
>> generation of cars. Start the day with a full charge. Drive 100 miles 
>> that
>> single day and end the day with 100 miles. Plug in only for 8 hours, 
>> start
>> the next day with "only" 180 miles. You could keep that pattern up for
>> over a week before you'd start to have legitimate reason for range
>> anxiety. Give the car a couple days of 12-hour charges on your 
>> (presumed)
>> weekend when you're only putting a few dozen miles per day on the car, 
>> and
>> you're all caught back up again. And I think it's safe to suggest that
>> what I just described is a rather extreme situation, even in America. 
>> Not
>> unheard of, but very unusual.
>>
>> Fast charging is nice to have, sure. But it becomes _less_ important 
>> with
>> bigger batteries, not more -- and we're emphatically headed to bigger
>> batteries. But the only time you actually _need_ fast charging -- 
>> assuming
>> overnight access to a 110 outlet is as ubiquitous as it typically is -- 
>> is
>> for road trips or other scenarios where you're spending almost as much
>> time in the car as you do in bed. And most people are renting cars for
>> road trips these days anyway
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> b&
>> ___
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>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Bosch Targets 263 Wh/kg Li-ion packs

2015-10-19 Thread Alan Arrison via EV

Sigh, another battery of the future.
Less weight, more kilowatt hours, less money...
We've heard it all before.

Al

On 10/19/2015 6:26 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:



[images
http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/1-CR-21625-e.jpg
Bosch is working on the battery of the future  The goal for the future is to
be able to store 50 kWh of energy in just one battery weighing 190 kg.




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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC Quick-Charging Matter

2015-10-19 Thread Peri Hartman via EV
Don't forget that there is a huge percentage, 30% to 50% depending on 
how you measure, who don't have consistent access to dedicated off 
street charging.   During the early adopter stage, this doesn't matter.  
For the next wave of EV owners it will.  People who can't charge at home 
will need to either charge at a destination - work, shopping - or while 
they wait at some sort of refuling station.  Charge time will matter - a 
lot.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" 
To: "Ben Goren" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" ; "brucedp5" 

Sent: 19-Oct-15 9:43:53 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC 
Quick-Charging Matter


What they actually don't understand is that EV's are refuled while 
parked

and not-in-use in the ultimate of convenience.

Whereas they are so used to gas cars that must be refuled somewhere 
else,

while they ARE-USING the car.  A big inconvenience.

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via 
EV

Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 12:40 PM
To: brucedp5; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC
Quick-Charging Matter

On Oct 19, 2015, at 3:24 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:


 In broad strokes, if you're confident that you can charge your car at
 home every night--or at work every day--then recharge rate may not be
 quite so important.


They're handwaving away the most important point.

People new to EVs are paranoid about the time it takes to recharge. 
People
who've lived with an EV for a few weeks wonder what all the fuss is 
about.
My parents went through this...Dad did a lot of searching for a cheap 
220
charger for their new-to-them Leaf. Now, while they wouldn't turn one 
down
if you offered them one for free, they have no interest in spending 
money

on one.

I think a lot of people unfamiliar with EVs get hung up on the time to
charge the battery from empty, when the important metric is the time to
charge the battery after a day's typical usage.

If you figure 3 miles per kWh for a typical EV, you'll recharge at 
about
10 MPH from a standard 110 circuit. Doesn't sound like much...but 
that's
80 miles after 8 hours, and most of us are either asleep that long or, 
at
least, spend that much time asleep plus showering and eating and the 
like.

In practice, most people would have no trouble plugging in for 10 or 12
hours a day at home, giving 100 - 120 miles.

And, save for road trips, how many people even put 80 miles on the road 
in

a given day? And on the rare days when that happens...how often does it
happen day after day?

Let's say you've got a 200-mile range EV, as is promised for the next
generation of cars. Start the day with a full charge. Drive 100 miles 
that
single day and end the day with 100 miles. Plug in only for 8 hours, 
start

the next day with "only" 180 miles. You could keep that pattern up for
over a week before you'd start to have legitimate reason for range
anxiety. Give the car a couple days of 12-hour charges on your 
(presumed)
weekend when you're only putting a few dozen miles per day on the car, 
and

you're all caught back up again. And I think it's safe to suggest that
what I just described is a rather extreme situation, even in America. 
Not

unheard of, but very unusual.

Fast charging is nice to have, sure. But it becomes _less_ important 
with

bigger batteries, not more -- and we're emphatically headed to bigger
batteries. But the only time you actually _need_ fast charging -- 
assuming
overnight access to a 110 outlet is as ubiquitous as it typically is -- 
is

for road trips or other scenarios where you're spending almost as much
time in the car as you do in bed. And most people are renting cars for
road trips these days anyway

Cheers,

b&
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC Quick-Charging Matter

2015-10-19 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On Oct 19, 2015, at 3:24 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

> In broad strokes, if you're confident that you can charge your car at home
> every night--or at work every day--then recharge rate may not be quite so
> important.

They're handwaving away the most important point.

People new to EVs are paranoid about the time it takes to recharge. People 
who've lived with an EV for a few weeks wonder what all the fuss is about. My 
parents went through this...Dad did a lot of searching for a cheap 220 charger 
for their new-to-them Leaf. Now, while they wouldn't turn one down if you 
offered them one for free, they have no interest in spending money on one.

I think a lot of people unfamiliar with EVs get hung up on the time to charge 
the battery from empty, when the important metric is the time to charge the 
battery after a day's typical usage.

If you figure 3 miles per kWh for a typical EV, you'll recharge at about 10 MPH 
from a standard 110 circuit. Doesn't sound like much...but that's 80 miles 
after 8 hours, and most of us are either asleep that long or, at least, spend 
that much time asleep plus showering and eating and the like. In practice, most 
people would have no trouble plugging in for 10 or 12 hours a day at home, 
giving 100 - 120 miles.

And, save for road trips, how many people even put 80 miles on the road in a 
given day? And on the rare days when that happens...how often does it happen 
day after day?

Let's say you've got a 200-mile range EV, as is promised for the next 
generation of cars. Start the day with a full charge. Drive 100 miles that 
single day and end the day with 100 miles. Plug in only for 8 hours, start the 
next day with "only" 180 miles. You could keep that pattern up for over a week 
before you'd start to have legitimate reason for range anxiety. Give the car a 
couple days of 12-hour charges on your (presumed) weekend when you're only 
putting a few dozen miles per day on the car, and you're all caught back up 
again. And I think it's safe to suggest that what I just described is a rather 
extreme situation, even in America. Not unheard of, but very unusual.

Fast charging is nice to have, sure. But it becomes _less_ important with 
bigger batteries, not more -- and we're emphatically headed to bigger 
batteries. But the only time you actually _need_ fast charging -- assuming 
overnight access to a 110 outlet is as ubiquitous as it typically is -- is for 
road trips or other scenarios where you're spending almost as much time in the 
car as you do in bed. And most people are renting cars for road trips these 
days anyway

Cheers,

b&
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC Quick-Charging Matter

2015-10-19 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV
What they actually don't understand is that EV's are refuled while parked
and not-in-use in the ultimate of convenience.

Whereas they are so used to gas cars that must be refuled somewhere else,
while they ARE-USING the car.  A big inconvenience.

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via EV
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 12:40 PM
To: brucedp5; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Buying An Electric Car: Why Charging Rate, DC
Quick-Charging Matter

On Oct 19, 2015, at 3:24 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

> In broad strokes, if you're confident that you can charge your car at
> home every night--or at work every day--then recharge rate may not be
> quite so important.

They're handwaving away the most important point.

People new to EVs are paranoid about the time it takes to recharge. People
who've lived with an EV for a few weeks wonder what all the fuss is about.
My parents went through this...Dad did a lot of searching for a cheap 220
charger for their new-to-them Leaf. Now, while they wouldn't turn one down
if you offered them one for free, they have no interest in spending money
on one.

I think a lot of people unfamiliar with EVs get hung up on the time to
charge the battery from empty, when the important metric is the time to
charge the battery after a day's typical usage.

If you figure 3 miles per kWh for a typical EV, you'll recharge at about
10 MPH from a standard 110 circuit. Doesn't sound like much...but that's
80 miles after 8 hours, and most of us are either asleep that long or, at
least, spend that much time asleep plus showering and eating and the like.
In practice, most people would have no trouble plugging in for 10 or 12
hours a day at home, giving 100 - 120 miles.

And, save for road trips, how many people even put 80 miles on the road in
a given day? And on the rare days when that happens...how often does it
happen day after day?

Let's say you've got a 200-mile range EV, as is promised for the next
generation of cars. Start the day with a full charge. Drive 100 miles that
single day and end the day with 100 miles. Plug in only for 8 hours, start
the next day with "only" 180 miles. You could keep that pattern up for
over a week before you'd start to have legitimate reason for range
anxiety. Give the car a couple days of 12-hour charges on your (presumed)
weekend when you're only putting a few dozen miles per day on the car, and
you're all caught back up again. And I think it's safe to suggest that
what I just described is a rather extreme situation, even in America. Not
unheard of, but very unusual.

Fast charging is nice to have, sure. But it becomes _less_ important with
bigger batteries, not more -- and we're emphatically headed to bigger
batteries. But the only time you actually _need_ fast charging -- assuming
overnight access to a 110 outlet is as ubiquitous as it typically is -- is
for road trips or other scenarios where you're spending almost as much
time in the car as you do in bed. And most people are renting cars for
road trips these days anyway

Cheers,

b&
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