Re: [EVDL] Large Format Cells vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

[Jan Steinman via EV]

> From: George Tyler 
> 
> I used to design electronics for 
> military, (submarines) you can make MTBF say whatever you want!

Yea, so true. The Navy got so frustrated that they abandoned static analysis 
for real-time testing.

I worked on linear beam forming for subs. We used card-edge scan testing during 
retrace time, when the virtual beam was essentially scanning back through the 
hull. Each bus interface unit had a Motorola 68000 on it, just to control the 
testing, 60 times a second.

Jan

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Re: [EVDL] Large Format Cells vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

[Michael Ross via EV]

I believe Tesla has the best resources for developing batteries and
manufacturing them.  They hired all the pertinent electrochemists at least.
They have made themselves the subject matter experts, bar none.

Also it is probable that for a while, new batteries designs will be
manufactured in a similar manner, and Tesla will incur less capital outlay
to retool than any new entries.

Anyone with a better design would be smart to prove it to Tesla and get on
board with them.  So far as we know, no one has demonstrated the efficacy
of an any substantially new designs to them.

An interesting point is that Tesla is not a typical for profit company.
Musk at least will be happy to simply create a demand, and even
competition.  The more successful the better. I have always kept this in
mind when investing with them.  I actually think the battery business is
more valuable than the car business.

On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 10:14 PM robert winfield via EV 
wrote:

>  in 2018, so far Tesla has used 7,103,326 Kilowatt hours of batteries, 77%
> of all the batteries used in EV's (less China) of the 9,279,755 total
> It doesn't matter whether you argue prismatic or pouch or 18650 or
> 2170. Tesla is outselling everyone else
>
> On Sunday, September 9, 2018, 8:45:20 PM EDT, ROBERT via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>
>  The problem with Tesla's batteries is not small vs large but Tesla has
> put all their eggs into one type of battery.  The other automotive
> companies are staying out of the battery business so that they can buy the
> best batteries available and not spend money on development.  Vertical
> business development is not always the best model.  At present, do what you
> do best and assemble a final product and buy from numerous suppliers is the
> current business model for the big automotive companies.
>
>
> 
> From: EV  on behalf of Jan Steinman via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org>
> Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2018 10:02 AM
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc: Jan Steinman
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Large Format Cells vs. Small Format Cells for EVs
>
> > From: Jukka J?rvinen 
> >
> > The main question is when will the problems be there? After 200.000 or
> > 500.000 miles?... we have just now
> > mastered the solid state electrolyte and synthetic Graphene production. I
> > see now 500Wh/kg, >15 year lifetime
>
> I see someone arguing both sides of a fallacious argument.
>
> How can you criticize one manufacturer for unknown future problems who
> uses known technology, while lauding unknown technology for a long lifetime
> that none of it has even passed through?
>
> We have all sorts of empirical evidence with small cells. MTBF behaviour
> is well characterized. But there is absolutely NO empirical evidence for
> "15 year lifetime" of "solid state electrolyte and synthetic Graphene"
> cells.
>
> Personally, I prefer nickel-iron cells. But I'm an outlier. :-)
>
> Jan
>
>
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>
>

-- 
Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 901-2805 Cell and Text
(919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Tablet,
Google Phone and Text
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Re: [EVDL] Large Format Cells vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

[robert winfield via EV]

 in 2018, so far Tesla has used 7,103,326 Kilowatt hours of batteries, 77% of 
all the batteries used in EV's (less China) of the 9,279,755 total
It doesn't matter whether you argue prismatic or pouch or 18650 or 2170. Tesla 
is outselling everyone else

On Sunday, September 9, 2018, 8:45:20 PM EDT, ROBERT via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 The problem with Tesla's batteries is not small vs large but Tesla has put all 
their eggs into one type of battery.  The other automotive companies are 
staying out of the battery business so that they can buy the best batteries 
available and not spend money on development.  Vertical business development is 
not always the best model.  At present, do what you do best and assemble a 
final product and buy from numerous suppliers is the current business model for 
the big automotive companies.



From: EV  on behalf of Jan Steinman via EV 

Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2018 10:02 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Jan Steinman
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Large Format Cells vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

> From: Jukka J?rvinen 
>
> The main question is when will the problems be there? After 200.000 or
> 500.000 miles?... we have just now
> mastered the solid state electrolyte and synthetic Graphene production. I
> see now 500Wh/kg, >15 year lifetime

I see someone arguing both sides of a fallacious argument.

How can you criticize one manufacturer for unknown future problems who uses 
known technology, while lauding unknown technology for a long lifetime that 
none of it has even passed through?

We have all sorts of empirical evidence with small cells. MTBF behaviour is 
well characterized. But there is absolutely NO empirical evidence for "15 year 
lifetime" of "solid state electrolyte and synthetic Graphene" cells.

Personally, I prefer nickel-iron cells. But I'm an outlier. :-)

Jan


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Re: [EVDL] Large vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

[Willie via EV]

On 09/09/2018 08:04 PM, mark hanson via EV wrote:

Hi Willie etc,

  


It's hard to find actual published Tesla battery failure numbers since Tesla
sends internal field service guys "Tesla Rangers" out to your house to
replace any bad cells that the car radios help for. When I was at a EV race
about 5 years ago, I asked three Tesla owners if they had any Tesla Rangers
come out to their homes in the past year for battery issues.  All three
raised their hands.  While this business model of impeccable field service
may work for high priced vehicles/wealthy customers, I don't see how it can
be *sustained* for lower priced Model-3's (set to come out next year).


I'm SURE the ranger service will change 12v batteries; that's something 
that has to be done as often as yearly and is a couple of hour job.  But 
removing and opening the battery case is a BIG job.  In fact, I don't 
believe service centers open battery boxes.  Certainly, it is not done 
in the owner's driveway.  All battery repairs that I know of have been 
sent to California.


Tesla DOES seem to be moving to more ranger service and I contend it is 
likely more cost effective than getting cars into the service centers 
and then managing all the cars/jobs.  Not to mention being FAR more 
convenient to the car buyers.   Generally, service centers supply 
loaners; that HAS to be very expensive since the loaners are mostly new 
high end cars.  The loaners may eventually get discounted with a few 
thousand miles by $5k-$10k and sold as "inventory".


I REALLY hope/believe that we are not far from the point where the cars 
will be driving themselves to service centers and then driving 
themselves home after repair.



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[EVDL] Large vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

[mark hanson via EV]

Hi Willie etc,

 

It's hard to find actual published Tesla battery failure numbers since Tesla
sends internal field service guys "Tesla Rangers" out to your house to
replace any bad cells that the car radios help for. When I was at a EV race
about 5 years ago, I asked three Tesla owners if they had any Tesla Rangers
come out to their homes in the past year for battery issues.  All three
raised their hands.  While this business model of impeccable field service
may work for high priced vehicles/wealthy customers, I don't see how it can
be *sustained* for lower priced Model-3's (set to come out next year).

 

Best Regards,

Mark in Roanoke VA

 

Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2018 06:24:04 -0500

From: Willie 

 

On 09/08/2018 09:38 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

> Well, does anyone have actual numbers regarding failures of Teslas? 

> Overall, they've been out long enough that "we" should know if there are 

> reliability problems or not. On my part, I have not heard of any 

> widespread Tesla failure. What reliability problems is C.S. referring to?

 

Anecdotal, but I know of quite of few Ss that have had their batteries 

replaced/repaired in warranty.  On my ~130k mile 2013 S, the battery was 

recently changed.  There was no real obvious issue but the Tesla service 

people said it should be changed.  Range was still above 90% of original 

and I had not complained of range loss; I considered the loss 

reasonable.  I would guess 30-50% of Tesla with more than 100k miles 

have had their batteries replaced.  Probably all under warranty; I have 

heard of no one who had to buy a battery.  Fact is, cost of replacement 

in generally unknown.  It seems Tesla is not replacing with new 

batteries.  In some cases they install a loaner battery while the faulty 

battery is being refurbished.  In other cases they replace with a 

refurbished battery.   I assume the refurbishment involves replacing a 

smallish number of bad cells.

 

Much in contrast to Nissan, the battery replacements are painless; as 

mentioned, I did not even know I had a battery problem but Tesla was 

eager to make it right.  Nissan refuses to replace obviously bad batteries.

 

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Re: [EVDL] Large Format Cells vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

[ROBERT via EV]

The problem with Tesla's batteries is not small vs large but Tesla has put all 
their eggs into one type of battery.  The other automotive companies are 
staying out of the battery business so that they can buy the best batteries 
available and not spend money on development.  Vertical business development is 
not always the best model.  At present, do what you do best and assemble a 
final product and buy from numerous suppliers is the current business model for 
the big automotive companies.



From: EV  on behalf of Jan Steinman via EV 

Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2018 10:02 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Jan Steinman
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Large Format Cells vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

> From: Jukka J?rvinen 
>
> The main question is when will the problems be there? After 200.000 or
> 500.000 miles?... we have just now
> mastered the solid state electrolyte and synthetic Graphene production. I
> see now 500Wh/kg, >15 year lifetime

I see someone arguing both sides of a fallacious argument.

How can you criticize one manufacturer for unknown future problems who uses 
known technology, while lauding unknown technology for a long lifetime that 
none of it has even passed through?

We have all sorts of empirical evidence with small cells. MTBF behaviour is 
well characterized. But there is absolutely NO empirical evidence for "15 year 
lifetime" of "solid state electrolyte and synthetic Graphene" cells.

Personally, I prefer nickel-iron cells. But I'm an outlier. :-)

Jan


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Re: [EVDL] What to do with used LiOn CALB batteries?

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

I agree with Marco.

To my knowledge, squeezing out the rest of the life through energy storage is 
really the only next useful stage for these batteries. The y cannot be recycled.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 9, 2018, at 6:09 AM, Barry Oppenheim via EV  wrote:
> 
> I recently took my Saturn Vue EV out of service and have 48 LiOn cells in
> my garage.  I am trying to find a way to *dispose/donate/sell them*.
> 
> Does anyone know if *regular metal/battery recyclers* take them?  I did try
> to give them to someone but the cross country shipping logistics were a
> nightmare. I live halfway between Philly and NYC.
> 
> If I decide to keep them does anyone see any problems or *safety issues*
> having them sit in a heated garage, partially to mostly discharged, for a
> couple years?
> 
> Cell details
> 48 Calb 180Ah cells (they have not been charged for at least two years)
> The cells were put into service in 2011 and have ~3 miles on them.  I
> estimate ~500-600 partial charge/discharge cycles.
> www.justanotherevconversion.blogspot.com
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Barry
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Re: [EVDL] Large Format Cells vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

[George Tyler via EV]

From a Electrical engineering perspective, the mean time between 
failures of 6800 cells is terrible but you can lose a lot and still have 
a functioning car, so I recon he is probably right, but it depends of 
the MTBF of the 2 types of cells too. I used to design electronics for 
military, (submarines) you can make MTBF say whatever you want! nowdays 
they use FMEA (failure mode and effects analysis) too, that this would 
show what really happens.
 you could say "if you lose one cell with large format then the car 
is immobilized but you could lose 3400 cells with small format, so it's 
3400 times better".




On 09-Sep-18 1:34 PM, mark hanson via EV wrote:

Hi Bob etc,

  


Consumer Reports said while they loved driving a Tesla model S, they gave it
a poor rating on reliability and preferred the Leaf and now the Bolt, saying
"you'd be nuts not to consider a Bolt".  Elon Musk/Tesla is the *only*
company that's putting 6800+ 21mm X 70mm itty bitty cells together in a
large EV.  When they came out with the Roadster in California, I asked a
Tesla salesman about the long term reliability of 6800 points of failure and
he said "don't think of it as 6800 points of failure, think of it as 6800
points of redundancy".  Good spin.  Either they know something that *no*
other large scale vehicle manufacturer/engineering teams doesn't, or their
long term reliability/profitability will continue to be poor.  Knowing what
I know about electronic componentry, I'll put my money on large format cells
for large on road EV's, Bolt, Leaf, Smart, BMW etc.

  


Note for further info, see: www.Batteryuniversity.com EV battery
comparisons/lithium chemistries LMC Cathode, vs LiFePO4 & aluminized cathode
(tesla type) cells.

  


Best regards,

Mark




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[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20180907

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-adorable-80kWh-MM1-3seat-super-Mikro-EV-ie-0-60-4s-r-300mi-tp4691110.html
EVLN: adorable 80kWh MM1 3seat super(Mikro)EV.ie 0-60:4s r:300mi
Mikro MM1 Mini Electric Car Looks Like a Toy... But It Isn't 
September 9th, 2018 - What the heck is this? Did somebody squish a
Lamborgini? Nope, what you're looking at is the Mikro MM1, and despite
looking like a toy, it is a full-fledged electric “supercar.” ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBdAA-L0lfU


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Rs5lakh-7k-Emflux2-naked-e-streetfighter-0-100kph-3-s-ts-200kph-r-200km-tp469.html
EVLN: Rs5lakh(($7k) Emflux2 naked e-streetfighter 0-100kph:3-s ts:200kph
r:200km
Emflux Two electric motorcycle: Indian E-bike at about Rs 5 lakh as quick as
a Ferrari!
... charge that will definitely give the prospective buyers a relief from
range anxiety that is usually linked with electric ...
https://images.financialexpress.com/2018/02/Emflux-1-660x440.jpg


+
https://www.electricvehiclesresearch.com/articles/15164/solar-electric-stratoairnet-prototype-completes-first-flight
Solar electric StratoAirNet prototype completes first flight
20180822  Bye Aerospace Learn more at the next leading event on the topic:
Electric Vehicles: Everything is Changing ...
https://idtxs3.imgix.net/si/4/17/2E.jpg


http://www.sify.com/finance/switching-two-wheelers-to-electric-can-cut-oil-bill-by-rs-1-2-lakh-crore-niti-aayog-news-auto-sjikaIbffaefh.html
Switching two-wheelers to electric can cut oil bill by Rs 1.2 lakh crore ...
Sep 8, 2018  Internal combustion engine vehicles are a major contributor to
pollution in cities and their replacement with electric vehicles will
definitely improve air quality ...


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Invasion-of-the-e-scooters-dirt-cheap-marketing-cn-abusively-used-tp4690608p4691040.html
“The Birds” remake> kädr?(ganbu) demand4 quick e-scooter.cn
Electric scooters' sudden invasion of American cities, explained
2018/8/27  Electric scooters are also challenging the king of American
transit, the car. Most car trips are short, and if electric scooters do end
up replacing some of them ...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkCOqOpU8AEcFkt.jpg




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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[EVDL] EVLN: Rs5lakh(($7k) Emflux2 naked e-streetfighter 0-100kph:3-s ts:200kph r:200km

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://www.financialexpress.com/auto/bike-news/emflux-two-electric-motorcycle-indian-e-bike-at-about-rs-5-lakh-as-quick-as-a-ferrari/1302297/
Emflux Two electric motorcycle: Indian E-bike at about Rs 5 lakh as quick as
a Ferrari!
September 4, 2018  Pradeep Shah

[image  
https://images.financialexpress.com/2018/02/Emflux-1-660x440.jpg
Emflux One at Auto Expo 2018
]

The new Emflux Two will have a top speed of 200 kmph and the electric naked
streetfighter will come based on the Emflux One. The silent bike is expected
to be priced close to Rs 5 lakh (on-road) with sales expected to start in
2020.

Upcoming Emflux Two electric streetfighter

If you have been dreaming about electric superbikes and are planning to own
one in the future, then in most probability you must be familiar with Emflux
Motors. The Bengaluru-based start-up is now prepping up for the launch of
Emflux Two. The bike will be the company's second offering for the Indian
market after the full faired Emflux One electric superbike showcased at Auto
Expo 2018. While the sale of Emflux One will start sometime next year, the
brand has already started working on the Emflux Two. The company has
recently teased the Emflux Two through its official Facebook page. From the
teaser image, it is clear that the Emflux Two will be an aggressive looking
naked streetfighter and looking at its silhouette from some specific angles,
the bike might remind you of the KTM 1290 Super Duke.

The new Emflux Two will be based on the Emflux One which means it is
expected to offer the same mind-boggling numbers and the high spec equipment
as the latter. Even the AC induction motor is also expected to be the same
on Emflux Two that will be good for churning out respective power and torque
outputs of close to 67 bhp and 84 Nm. The Emflux Two will be able to sprint
from 0 to 100 kmph in under 3 seconds and will be able to achieve a top
speed of 200 kmph. It should be noted here that few supercars from Ferrari,
Lamborghini and Porsche do the 0-100 kmph run in three seconds. The electric
streetfighter will offer a range of 200 km per full charge that will
definitely give the prospective buyers a relief from range anxiety that is
usually linked with electric vehicles.

Just like the Emflux One, the upcoming Emflux Two is also expected to get
features like smartphone connectivity and a coloured TFT instrument cluster.
Like the Emflux One, the Emflux Two will most likely get top spec components
like Ohlins suspension set up and Brembo brakes at both ends with
Continental dual-channel ABS (Anti-Lock Braking System). We believe that the
motorcycle will be priced north of Rs 5 lakh (on-road) and will be a hoot to
ride. Just like the Emflux One that will be limited to 199 units, the Emflux
Two will also see a limited production run. The new Emflux two is expected
to go on sale sometime in the year 2020.

With the Government of India's 2030 EV vision, automakers are seeing
electric vehicles as the next challenge and new start-ups along with
existing automakers have already started venturing into the EV space. Now
what remains to be seen is the market acceptance for such high-end electric
superbikes in India and if customers prefer these over conventional petrol
machines. The absence of adrenaline rushing exhaust note and lack of
infrastructure might prove a setback for many.
[© financialexpress.com  2018 The Indian Express]


https://www.bikewale.com/news/35921-emflux-motors-teases-electric-streetfighter.html
Emflux Motors teases electric streetfighter
03 September 2018  Emflux Motors, the company that made news when it
launched the electric superbike ... This upcoming EV is likely to be called
Emflux Two and is rumoured to be ...


+
http://www.sify.com/finance/switching-two-wheelers-to-electric-can-cut-oil-bill-by-rs-1-2-lakh-crore-niti-aayog-news-auto-sjikaIbffaefh.html
Switching two-wheelers to electric can cut oil bill by Rs 1.2 lakh crore ...
Sep 8, 2018  Internal combustion engine vehicles are a major contributor to
pollution in cities and their replacement with electric vehicles will
definitely improve air quality ...




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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[EVDL] EVLN: adorable 80kWh MM1 3seat super(Mikro)EV.ie 0-60:4s r:300mi

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://technabob.com/blog/2018/09/09/mikro-mm1-mini-electric-car/
Mikro MM1 Mini Electric Car Looks Like a Toy… But It Isn’t
September 9th, 2018  Conner Flynn

[images  
https://technabob.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/mikro_1.jpg

https://technabob.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/mikro_2.jpg

https://technabob.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/mikro_3.jpg

https://technabob.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/mikro_4.jpg
]

What the heck is this? Did somebody squish a Lamborgini? Nope, what you’re
looking at is the Mikro MM1, and despite looking like a toy, it is a
full-fledged electric “supercar.” It is actually pretty adorable the more I
look at it.

Yep, its makers say the MM1 is a real car, and it is intentionally cute
given the company’s slogan of “Changing the world one smile at a time.” Come
on, you know it just made you smile. It’s okay to admit it. This tiny
electric car from North Ireland startup Mikro Automotive seats three, and
like the McLaren F1 has a center steering configuration with the driver up
front and two passengers in the back. It boasts a 300 mile range and can go
from 0 to 60 mph in “under 4 seconds.”

Since they describe this as a car for the “smartphone generation” we can
only guess that the interior will be loaded with tech and touchscreens, but
we really don’t know.

Its makers hope to launch the car in 2019. You can check it out on
Kickstarter where they are selling some merch to fund the car’s design and
production.
[© technabob.com]


[video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBdAA-L0lfU
A little electric car built in the UK with ambitions to help save the planet
Mikro Automotive  Sep 6, 2018
The Mikro MM1 is a fully Electric 3 passenger city car. 0-60 in 4 seconds
with a range of 300 miles. It is proudly manufactured in N.Ireland 
www.mikro-automotive.com
]
...
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1938195485/mikro-mm1-the-electric-car-for-the-smartphone-gene
Mikro MM1 - A little electric car with big ambitions
  Shimie

[images  
https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/022/458/804/35c4931d70388e8ef504532018f4a88d_original.jpeg?w=680=max=1536171402=format=92=3a277ae1b07f836ddd1f30ff2c5d63f7

https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/022/489/209/e39b4510e8e9f8a102efe770ca8a7f88_original.png?w=680=max=1536412425=format=true=76076f332b0933372531d112687dcd23
Initial prototype cross section


video  flash
]

Building the ultimate zero emissions vehicle for use in large cities. Doing
our bit to fight climate change one smile at a time

These photos and videos provide a detailed look at this project’s
development.
Mikro MM1 0-60mph 4 seconds

 We started with a goal , build an electric car but make it cool, make it
that when people see it they smile, but make it fast, and make the interior
like a big smartphone 

Well we did it , we built it. We actually added a few more surprises but
we’ll keep those under wraps for now !

Whilst we are passionate about building cars we also have another motive.

Climate change is affecting every person on the planet, the air we breathe
is becoming increasingly toxic with every day that passes. Deforestation is
happening at a faster rate than any other time in human history. We need to
change our ways.

What can we do? ...

The planet needs sustainable zero emissions transport. We have designed a
fully electric 3 passenger vehicle. On a full charge the Mikro MM1 has a
range of 300 miles and sprints to 60mph in under 4 seconds. Fun whilst
saving the planet ...sounds good to me !

The Mikro MM1 is a small vehicle designed for life in the big city , fully
connected with touchscreen controls this a car for the modern generation.

Key features
- 0-60mph 4seconds
- 80kwh liquid cooled lithium/graphene battery pack
- Range 300 miles
- Charge cycle of approx 6 hours 100% charge 
- Small removable auxiliary battery for emergency situations 
- Unique chassis system allowing for the option of a different body style in
the future without having to buy a complete new car

- Small footprint , ideal for large cities with limited space
- 3 seat configuration with a centre drivers seat
- Retractable rear seats for extra storage

The team 

Shimie - Team leader / composite engineer. 13 years experience building
specialist vehicles ranging from limousines , buses & film props

Andy - Andy is a mechanical engineer who graduated from Queens Universty
Belfast in 2003 and has since been involved in several aerospace and
automotive projects

Shane - Senior design engineer, graduated in 2004 with an honours degree in
mechanical engineering. Has been involved in several product development
projects in the aerospace industry

Eamonn - Business strategist with experience of rapid scaling up of high
growth companies. 20+ years experience in this field.

In addition to this core team Mikro Automotive has a large pool of key
industry advisors including IP specialists & Renewable energy pioneers.

How Kickstarter can help ?

Building cars is expensive ! and for a small company 

[EVDL] JB's redwoodmaterials.com EV parts?> (reclaim/repurpose cobalt)

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/06/tesla-cto-jb-straubel-redwood-materials-recycling-expands-nevada.html
Tesla CTO JB Straubel has a stealthy recycling start-up and it's expanding
into Nevada
6 Sept 2018  Lora Kolodny

[image  
https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2018/02/07/104994114-GettyImages-176645520.jpg
JB Straubel, Tesla Motors chief technical officer  / Getty


video  flash  dated
Tesla CTO: Not just a 'feel good sustainability project,' this means saving
money
]

  - Tesla CTO JB Straubel established a recycling startup, Redwood
Materials, in 2017.
  - Now, it's registered to do business in Nevada.
  - Straubel has promoted recycling in Tesla's own business, saying the
company would eventually like to establish a "closed loop."

Elon Musk isn't the only Tesla executive with a start-up on the side.

Tesla CTO Jeffrey B. Straubel, known as JB, recently registered Redwood
Materials -- his stealthy recycling venture -- to do business in the state
of Nevada, CNBC has learned from a filing.

Redwood Materials' chief financial officer, Andrew Stevenson, also posted a
job opening for a mechanical engineer to work at the recycling venture in
Northern Nevada a week ago on LinkedIn. Stevenson worked at Tesla for about
3 years until June, in a special projects office of the CTO.

At Tesla, Straubel spends most of his time at the Gigafactory 1 in Sparks,
Nevada, which churns out batteries for electric vehicles and solar energy
systems. He has overseen battery tech, but also power electronics, motors,
software, firmware and controls, among other responsibilities at Tesla.

Redwood Materials was established in Redwood City, California, in 2017, near
Tesla's headquarters in Palo Alto. However, the company is not working with
Tesla, Straubel told CNBC in an email.

"Redwood is not currently doing any business with Tesla and our expansion to
Nevada is unrelated to Tesla or to the Gigafactory directly," said Straubel.
"Northern Nevada has a welcoming business environment, a growing technology
presence and gives us a strong foundation for aggressive future growth.

Tesla's Gigafactory and its main auto plant in Fremont, California,
typically generate large amounts of scrap, cardboard and waste from
construction, according to multiple former employees. In late June, a fire
broke out at Tesla's Fremont factory, where cardboard was being prepared to
go off to a recycling center.

At an annual shareholder's meeting for Tesla in June, Straubel answered a
question from a Twitter user about the company's approach to battery waste. 

He said:

  - Tesla will absolutely recycle, and we do recycle, all of our spent
cells, modules and battery packs. So the discussion about is this waste
ending up in landfills is not correct. We would not do that, these are
valuable materials. In addition, it's just the right thing to do.

  - We have current partner companies-- on every major continent where we
have cars operating-- that we work with to do this today. And in addition,
we're developing internally more processes, and we're doing R on how we
can improve this recycling process to get more of the active materials back.
Ultimately what we want is a closed loop, right, at the Gigafactories that
reuses the same, recycled materials.

Straubel has also repeatedly spoken about recycling minerals, which are used
in electric vehicle batteries and motors, and can be both costly and subject
to shifting tariffs.
Tesla CTO: Not just a 'feel good sustainability project,' this means saving
money
[© cnbc.com]


[dated]
https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/2/15516632/tesla-startup-redwood-materials-recycling
Tesla executives launch a mysterious startup for ‘materials recycling’
May 2, 2017 - Last night, CB Insights spotted a new SEC filing for a company
called Redwood Materials. The documents list Jeffrey “JB” Straubel, Tesla's
CTO ... ‘Unlock the value of your materials’ ...
...
https://www.google.com/search?q=redwood+materials+recycling+Straubel
search on  redwood materials recycling Straubel




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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Re: [EVDL] What to do with used LiOn CALB batteries?

[Barry Oppenheim via EV]

Marco,

Thanks for the suggestion.  We actually have solar with battery backup
(FLA).  I've thought about adding them to our system.  Unfortunately we
have an older charge inverter that doesn't support LiOn charging.  I
probably could could find a way to wire the current BMS and batteries into
the system.  More of a project time issue.

If we had TOU I definitely would just charge them off the grid and
arbitrage as you suggest.  No TOU in PA.

Barry

On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 4:58 PM, Ing. Marco Gaxiola 
wrote:

>  Why don’t you use them to build your own home energy storage system
> at home? You can build a 48v system (3P-16Series of your CALBs) you would
> have 180Ah x 3. Couldn’t those cells still have at least 30% capacity left,
> Maybe more? But enough to power your home for half a day on basic
> appliances like lamps, internet and TVs.
>
>   If you want to go pro, you could use the VFXR series from Outback
> Power (http://www.outbackpower.com/products/inverter-chargers/
> fxr-vfxr-series) which is a 120/240 since wave inverter grid tie and
> island capable, and have the ability to charge from the grid/solar, buy and
> sell electricity depending on your rates from day/night and power your
> house in a black out event.
>
>   At least that’s what I’d like to do on my next opportunity.
>
> Marco Gaxiola
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 9, 2018, at 9:09 AM, Barry Oppenheim via EV 
> wrote:
>
> I recently took my Saturn Vue EV out of service and have 48 LiOn cells in
> my garage.  I am trying to find a way to *dispose/donate/sell them*.
>
> Does anyone know if *regular metal/battery recyclers* take them?  I did try
> to give them to someone but the cross country shipping logistics were a
> nightmare. I live halfway between Philly and NYC.
>
> If I decide to keep them does anyone see any problems or *safety issues*
> having them sit in a heated garage, partially to mostly discharged, for a
> couple years?
>
> Cell details
> 48 Calb 180Ah cells (they have not been charged for at least two years)
> The cells were put into service in 2011 and have ~3 miles on them.  I
> estimate ~500-600 partial charge/discharge cycles.
> www.justanotherevconversion.blogspot.com
>
> Thanks,
>
> Barry
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Re: [EVDL] What to do with used LiOn CALB batteries?

[Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV]

 Why don’t you use them to build your own home energy storage system at 
home? You can build a 48v system (3P-16Series of your CALBs) you would have 
180Ah x 3. Couldn’t those cells still have at least 30% capacity left, Maybe 
more? But enough to power your home for half a day on basic appliances like 
lamps, internet and TVs. 

  If you want to go pro, you could use the VFXR series from Outback Power 
(http://www.outbackpower.com/products/inverter-chargers/fxr-vfxr-series) which 
is a 120/240 since wave inverter grid tie and island capable, and have the 
ability to charge from the grid/solar, buy and sell electricity depending on 
your rates from day/night and power your house in a black out event. 

  At least that’s what I’d like to do on my next opportunity.

Marco Gaxiola 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 9, 2018, at 9:09 AM, Barry Oppenheim via EV  wrote:
> 
> I recently took my Saturn Vue EV out of service and have 48 LiOn cells in
> my garage.  I am trying to find a way to *dispose/donate/sell them*.
> 
> Does anyone know if *regular metal/battery recyclers* take them?  I did try
> to give them to someone but the cross country shipping logistics were a
> nightmare. I live halfway between Philly and NYC.
> 
> If I decide to keep them does anyone see any problems or *safety issues*
> having them sit in a heated garage, partially to mostly discharged, for a
> couple years?
> 
> Cell details
> 48 Calb 180Ah cells (they have not been charged for at least two years)
> The cells were put into service in 2011 and have ~3 miles on them.  I
> estimate ~500-600 partial charge/discharge cycles.
> www.justanotherevconversion.blogspot.com
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Barry
> -- next part --
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Re: [EVDL] Large Format Cells vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

The comments below about the reliability of Tesla I have heard from
numerous people. The refusal of Nissan to take responsibility of problems
is a personal experience of mine.
Bob Keeland, PhD

On Sun, Sep 9, 2018, 3:49 PM Willie via EV  wrote:

>
>
> On 09/08/2018 09:38 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> > Well, does anyone have actual numbers regarding failures of Teslas?
> > Overall, they've been out long enough that "we" should know if there are
> > reliability problems or not. On my part, I have not heard of any
> > widespread Tesla failure. What reliability problems is C.S. referring to?
>
> Anecdotal, but I know of quite of few Ss that have had their batteries
> replaced/repaired in warranty.  On my ~130k mile 2013 S, the battery was
> recently changed.  There was no real obvious issue but the Tesla service
> people said it should be changed.  Range was still above 90% of original
> and I had not complained of range loss; I considered the loss
> reasonable.  I would guess 30-50% of Tesla with more than 100k miles
> have had their batteries replaced.  Probably all under warranty; I have
> heard of no one who had to buy a battery.  Fact is, cost of replacement
> in generally unknown.  It seems Tesla is not replacing with new
> batteries.  In some cases they install a loaner battery while the faulty
> battery is being refurbished.  In other cases they replace with a
> refurbished battery.   I assume the refurbishment involves replacing a
> smallish number of bad cells.
>
> Much in contrast to Nissan, the battery replacements are painless; as
> mentioned, I did not even know I had a battery problem but Tesla was
> eager to make it right.  Nissan refuses to replace obviously bad batteries.
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Re: [EVDL] Large Format Cells vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

[Michael Ross via EV]

ed in multiple
> redundancy.
> >
> > The Tesla battery of 6800 cells is far more reliable since it has 74
> cells
> > in PARALLEL for each 3.6volt lithium unit.  Compared to a Leaf with only
> 2
> > cells in parallel at each stage in the stack.
> >
> >
> >
> > IN the Tesla the impact on any single battery failure is then only 3% of
> > the
> > impact of a cell problem on a car with larger format cells.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'd take the multiple redundancy of the Tesla any day.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- next part --
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> >
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> > >
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> >
> >
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>

-- 
Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 901-2805 Cell and Text
(919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Tablet,
Google Phone and Text
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Re: [EVDL] Large Format Cells vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

[Paul Dove via EV]

Oh yea, his premise is wrong as well. A large format cell is made up of many 
smaller cells in parallel. I opened a 100 Ah cell and it had 10 - 10Ah cells 
paralleled inside with no fuse between them: so if you loose one you loose them 
all.

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 9, 2018, at 6:24 AM, Willie via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 09/08/2018 09:38 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>> Well, does anyone have actual numbers regarding failures of Teslas? Overall, 
>> they've been out long enough that "we" should know if there are reliability 
>> problems or not. On my part, I have not heard of any widespread Tesla 
>> failure. What reliability problems is C.S. referring to?
> 
> Anecdotal, but I know of quite of few Ss that have had their batteries 
> replaced/repaired in warranty.  On my ~130k mile 2013 S, the battery was 
> recently changed.  There was no real obvious issue but the Tesla service 
> people said it should be changed.  Range was still above 90% of original and 
> I had not complained of range loss; I considered the loss reasonable.  I 
> would guess 30-50% of Tesla with more than 100k miles have had their 
> batteries replaced.  Probably all under warranty; I have heard of no one who 
> had to buy a battery.  Fact is, cost of replacement in generally unknown.  It 
> seems Tesla is not replacing with new batteries.  In some cases they install 
> a loaner battery while the faulty battery is being refurbished.  In other 
> cases they replace with a refurbished battery.   I assume the refurbishment 
> involves replacing a smallish number of bad cells.
> 
> Much in contrast to Nissan, the battery replacements are painless; as 
> mentioned, I did not even know I had a battery problem but Tesla was eager to 
> make it right.  Nissan refuses to replace obviously bad batteries.
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> 

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Re: [EVDL] Large Format Cells vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

[Jan Steinman via EV]

> From: Jukka J?rvinen 
> 
> The main question is when will the problems be there? After 200.000 or
> 500.000 miles?... we have just now
> mastered the solid state electrolyte and synthetic Graphene production. I
> see now 500Wh/kg, >15 year lifetime 

I see someone arguing both sides of a fallacious argument.

How can you criticize one manufacturer for unknown future problems who uses 
known technology, while lauding unknown technology for a long lifetime that 
none of it has even passed through?

We have all sorts of empirical evidence with small cells. MTBF behaviour is 
well characterized. But there is absolutely NO empirical evidence for "15 year 
lifetime" of "solid state electrolyte and synthetic Graphene" cells.

Personally, I prefer nickel-iron cells. But I'm an outlier. :-)

Jan


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Re: [EVDL] Large Format Cells vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

[paul dove via EV]

I know Tesla had problems with there gear box early on but I have heard of no 
battery issues. And since when is a bolt a lot less than a Tesla? My Tesla was 
41000 that’s right in there with a bolt aren’t they ~37000?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 8, 2018, at 9:38 PM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> Well, does anyone have actual numbers regarding failures of Teslas? Overall, 
> they've been out long enough that "we" should know if there are reliability 
> problems or not. On my part, I have not heard of any widespread Tesla 
> failure. What reliability problems is C.S. referring to?
> 
> As for C.S. other statement, I would agree one would be nuts not to consider 
> a Bolt. For a lot less money you get a great car. That doesn't say anything 
> bad about a Tesla, though.
> 
> Peri
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "mark hanson via EV" 
> To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" 
> Cc: "mark hanson" 
> Sent: 08-Sep-18 6:34:24 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] Large Format Cells vs. Small Format Cells for EVs
> 
>> Hi Bob etc,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Consumer Reports said while they loved driving a Tesla model S, they gave it
>> a poor rating on reliability and preferred the Leaf and now the Bolt, saying
>> "you'd be nuts not to consider a Bolt".  Elon Musk/Tesla is the *only*
>> company that's putting 6800+ 21mm X 70mm itty bitty cells together in a
>> large EV.  When they came out with the Roadster in California, I asked a
>> Tesla salesman about the long term reliability of 6800 points of failure and
>> he said "don't think of it as 6800 points of failure, think of it as 6800
>> points of redundancy".  Good spin.  Either they know something that *no*
>> other large scale vehicle manufacturer/engineering teams doesn't, or their
>> long term reliability/profitability will continue to be poor.  Knowing what
>> I know about electronic componentry, I'll put my money on large format cells
>> for large on road EV's, Bolt, Leaf, Smart, BMW etc.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Note for further info, see: www.Batteryuniversity.com EV battery
>> comparisons/lithium chemistries LMC Cathode, vs LiFePO4 & aluminized cathode
>> (tesla type) cells.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2018 18:00:28 -0400
>> 
>> From: Robert Bruninga 
>> 
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: A comparative efficiency study of ... now
>> 
>> Redundancy!
>> 
>> Message-ID: 
>> 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> I've always had it beat into my pointy engineering head  to minimize
>> 
>>> component count. Which is also why  id never own a Tesla with 6800 or
>> 
>>> so cells in their battery.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> That philosophy fails to recognize the value gained in multiple redundancy.
>> 
>> The Tesla battery of 6800 cells is far more reliable since it has 74 cells
>> in PARALLEL for each 3.6volt lithium unit.  Compared to a Leaf with only 2
>> cells in parallel at each stage in the stack.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> IN the Tesla the impact on any single battery failure is then only 3% of the
>> impact of a cell problem on a car with larger format cells.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I'd take the multiple redundancy of the Tesla any day.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- next part --
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>> 
> 
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> 

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[EVDL] What to do with used LiOn CALB batteries?

[Barry Oppenheim via EV]

I recently took my Saturn Vue EV out of service and have 48 LiOn cells in
my garage.  I am trying to find a way to *dispose/donate/sell them*.

Does anyone know if *regular metal/battery recyclers* take them?  I did try
to give them to someone but the cross country shipping logistics were a
nightmare. I live halfway between Philly and NYC.

If I decide to keep them does anyone see any problems or *safety issues*
having them sit in a heated garage, partially to mostly discharged, for a
couple years?

Cell details
48 Calb 180Ah cells (they have not been charged for at least two years)
The cells were put into service in 2011 and have ~3 miles on them.  I
estimate ~500-600 partial charge/discharge cycles.
www.justanotherevconversion.blogspot.com

Thanks,

Barry
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Re: [EVDL] Large Format Cells vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

[Willie via EV]

On 09/08/2018 09:38 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
Well, does anyone have actual numbers regarding failures of Teslas? 
Overall, they've been out long enough that "we" should know if there are 
reliability problems or not. On my part, I have not heard of any 
widespread Tesla failure. What reliability problems is C.S. referring to?


Anecdotal, but I know of quite of few Ss that have had their batteries 
replaced/repaired in warranty.  On my ~130k mile 2013 S, the battery was 
recently changed.  There was no real obvious issue but the Tesla service 
people said it should be changed.  Range was still above 90% of original 
and I had not complained of range loss; I considered the loss 
reasonable.  I would guess 30-50% of Tesla with more than 100k miles 
have had their batteries replaced.  Probably all under warranty; I have 
heard of no one who had to buy a battery.  Fact is, cost of replacement 
in generally unknown.  It seems Tesla is not replacing with new 
batteries.  In some cases they install a loaner battery while the faulty 
battery is being refurbished.  In other cases they replace with a 
refurbished battery.   I assume the refurbishment involves replacing a 
smallish number of bad cells.


Much in contrast to Nissan, the battery replacements are painless; as 
mentioned, I did not even know I had a battery problem but Tesla was 
eager to make it right.  Nissan refuses to replace obviously bad batteries.

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Re: [EVDL] Large Format Cells vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Mark,
I think it is a fallacy to consider all large format cells as single point
of failure, the prismatic cells that i have seen opened all consisted of
multiple cells internally, sometimes several dozen thin pouch cells with
their terminals clamped together, for example 20 cells of 5Ah stuffed in
one plastic housing to create a single 100Ah cell. So, i see this as an
addition of 20 points of failure *without* redundancy, because unlike Tesla
which uses cell level fuses, the concept of bolted together cells causes a
big failure if a single cell shorts.
I have discovered in an unexplicable EV fire in a vehicle that was not
charging, that where the fire started, there was the remnants of one
prismatic cell in particular that apparently one pouch was folded double
when initially constructing the cell out of a stack of pouches. As we all
know, pouches swell in use, so i think that was a mfg error and a failure
waiting to happen and because a multitude of paralleled pouches a dump
their energy into a single failing pouch due to this parallel construction,
causing a chain reaction where first a single pouch overheats and catches
fire, then ignites the other pouches in the same cell and when the cell
walls are breached by the fire or explosion if pressure gets out of hand,
then the adjacent cells go the same way.
I rather see a single failing point result in a blown fuse and a few
percent of capacity reduction, because the cells are constructed in a way
that a single cell failure does not spread beyond that cell.

To be honest, i have never seen a failure that propagated in a Nissan Leaf
pack, despite their choice to parallel two pouches in every module.

Regards,
Cor.

On Sun, Sep 9, 2018, 3:54 AM mark hanson via EV  wrote:

> Hi Bob etc,
>
>
>
> Consumer Reports said while they loved driving a Tesla model S, they gave
> it
> a poor rating on reliability and preferred the Leaf and now the Bolt,
> saying
> "you'd be nuts not to consider a Bolt".  Elon Musk/Tesla is the *only*
> company that's putting 6800+ 21mm X 70mm itty bitty cells together in a
> large EV.  When they came out with the Roadster in California, I asked a
> Tesla salesman about the long term reliability of 6800 points of failure
> and
> he said "don't think of it as 6800 points of failure, think of it as 6800
> points of redundancy".  Good spin.  Either they know something that *no*
> other large scale vehicle manufacturer/engineering teams doesn't, or their
> long term reliability/profitability will continue to be poor.  Knowing what
> I know about electronic componentry, I'll put my money on large format
> cells
> for large on road EV's, Bolt, Leaf, Smart, BMW etc.
>
>
>
> Note for further info, see: www.Batteryuniversity.com EV battery
> comparisons/lithium chemistries LMC Cathode, vs LiFePO4 & aluminized
> cathode
> (tesla type) cells.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2018 18:00:28 -0400
>
> From: Robert Bruninga 
>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: A comparative efficiency study of ... now
>
>   Redundancy!
>
> Message-ID: 
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
>
>
> > I've always had it beat into my pointy engineering head  to minimize
>
> > component count. Which is also why  id never own a Tesla with 6800 or
>
> > so cells in their battery.
>
>
>
> That philosophy fails to recognize the value gained in multiple redundancy.
>
> The Tesla battery of 6800 cells is far more reliable since it has 74 cells
> in PARALLEL for each 3.6volt lithium unit.  Compared to a Leaf with only 2
> cells in parallel at each stage in the stack.
>
>
>
> IN the Tesla the impact on any single battery failure is then only 3% of
> the
> impact of a cell problem on a car with larger format cells.
>
>
>
> I'd take the multiple redundancy of the Tesla any day.
>
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Large Format Cells vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

[Jukka Järvinen via EV]

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[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20180906

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-spied-the-wonderful-little-BMW-iX3-w-less-camo-v-tp4691095.html
EVLN: (spied)> 'the wonderful little' BMW iX3 (w/ less camo) (v)
BMW iX3 EV spied with little camo
We liked what we saw when BMW showed off its electric iX3 crossover concept
at the Beijing Motor Show earlier this year ...
ttps://s.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/741/140/5/S7411405/slug/l/bmw-ix3-ev-spy-photos-1-1.jpg


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Whitten-s-terrific-Porsche4hitler-conversion-c-L2-3kW-j1772-tp4691096.html
EVLN: Whitten's terrific Porsche4hitler-conversion c:L2-3kW+j1772
Me & My Car: ’68 VW Bug, which owner bought new, goes electric
There is a fascinating history involving Volkswagen starting when Adolf
Hitler in 1938 called on Dr. Ferdinand Porsche ...
https://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/BOA-L-MMCAR-COL-0907-1.jpg


+
http://www.nan.ng/motoring/electric-cars-in-europe-pass-one-million-mark/
Electric cars in Europe pass one million mark
2018-08-27  The total number of electric cars in Europe has reached the
million mark, after sales increased by more than 40 percent in the first
half of the year, said a report ...
http://s18694.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Electric-car-comes-in-for-a-plug-in.-Europe-now-has-more-than-one-million-electric-cars-on-the-road-e1535356163712.jpg
...
http://www.thedrive.com/news/23213/report-europe-buys-its-millionth-electric-vehicle
Report: Europe Buys Its Millionth Electric Vehicle
August 28, 2018  Europe has reportedly purchased a total of one million
electric vehicles. According to European electric vehicle sales figures kept
by EV Volumes ...


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVcrash-Leaf-rear-ends-Apple-auton-15mph-human-guided-missiles-Cupertino-CA-campus-tp4691036.html
EVcrash: Leaf rear-ends Apple auton @15mph> human-guided missiles
@Cupertino-CA campus
Self-Colliding Cars? [human Leaf driver Crashes Auton Apple hev]
01.09.2018  A prototype autonomous vehicle manufactured by Apple Inc.
crashed with a ... before it was rear-ended by a driver in one of Nissan's
fully-electric Leaf cars ...
https://cdn1.img.sputniknews.com/images/101774/37/1017743792.jpg




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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[EVDL] EVLN: Whitten's terrific Porsche4hitler-conversion c:L2-3kW+j1772

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/09/02/me-my-car-68-vw-bug-which-owner-bought-new-goes-electric/
Me & My Car: ’68 VW Bug, which owner bought new, goes electric
David Krumboltz/for Bay Area News Group
September 2, 2018  David Krumboltz

[image  
https://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/BOA-L-MMCAR-COL-0907-1.jpg
Kris Whitten, of Kensington, appears recently with his 1968 Volkswagen Bug
that he had specialists convert into an electric car in July
]

There is a fascinating history involving Volkswagen starting when Adolf
Hitler in 1938 called on Dr. Ferdinand Porsche to design the “peoples’ car”
that could sell for less than 1,000 Reich marks, or about $140 at the time.
I’m not sure if it was a request or a command, but he complied and the
people’s car was introduced in 1939 at the Berlin Motor Show.

But then Hitler got involved in some other activities in Czechoslovakia,
Poland and other places, so production was halted. Later the Allies
obliterated the VW factory, but after the war the Allies focused on VW to
rebuild the German auto industry. Early sales of the Volkswagen Bug
(sometimes called the Beetle) were slower in America than other countries,
probably due to its Nazi history, funny looks and small size.

By the 1960s, though, people had accepted the car, and it became this
country’s best-selling imported car. VW manufactured more than 21 million
Bugs in almost 70 years with the last one being produced in Mexico on July
30, 2003.

One person who saw the value in this small, well-built car in 1967 was a
young college sophomore named Kris Whitten. He walked into Stan Carlsen
Inc., a San Francisco VW-Porsche dealer one December day and plunked down
$2,258.61 (about $17,000 in today’s dollars) to buy his first car. He still
has it. It is now 50 years old and been driven more than 238,000 miles.
While most 50-year-old cars would have been retired, restored or scrapped,
Whitten’s VW is embarking on a new future.

“When I was getting ready to go back to school in D.C. in 1997, the (then
30-year-old) Bug and I had a one-way conversation about how we could make it
across the country if we took it slow and easy,” the Kensington owner
explained. “Soon after, the Bug’s engine died as I was coming off the
freeway in Danville, but I was able to coast to a place where I could park
it and call for help.

“The fuel pump had gone out, and the tow truck driver was able to replace it
on the spot with a new one I bought from a nearby auto parts store (only
accepting $20 for his efforts), but I took that as a sign that I was
supposed to get another car for the cross-country trip. Thus, my 1997 Saturn
SW2, which I still drive, is my “longer trip” car. The Bug has been my
‘around town’ car, and has not been on the freeway much for several years.”

What was Whitten’s solution to what ailed his Bug? Converting its engine
from internal combustion to electric. Whitten admitted that “I’m not
terrifically fond of change, but the conversion is something I have been
thinking about since the idea began being publicized about 10 years ago, and
for the last five years I have been actively (off and on) researching it. A
recent health scare (I’m OK now) motivated me to actually do something about
it, so I gritted my teeth and paid the beaucoup bucks to Richard Van Wyhe of
EV4U Custom Conversions of Shasta Lake, California.

“He did a terrific job! In addition to the electric conversion, I got new
front disc brakes, a new clutch and the torsion bar raised a bit to deal
with the 300-plus additional pounds of batteries, all of which cost about
$25,000, which I figure is probably less than what I saved by not buying a
new car from 1967-1997. Rationalization? I don’t care. It’s really cool.
Richard also buffed it up, so that the 50-year-old paint shines (it’s spent
most of its nights in a garage).”

Whitten just got his VW returned with the electric conversion this July, and
he is still learning about it.

“It has a 90-mile range on a charge and will, according to Richard, go up to
90 mph. It can be charged from a 110-volt outlet in the garage. I’ve also
charged it from commercial 220-volt charging stations, which takes about
half as long as 110. It has a lot more pickup than it used to and still has
the four-speed transmission, but you can start and stop and drive around in
the 2D or 3D gear without having to use the clutch.

“When you’re stopped the motor is not turning, so you don’t have to touch
the clutch. It also charges the batteries when you let off the ‘gas’ pedal
and glide down a hill or press the brake pedal, which is called
‘regenerative braking.’ Also, rather than using reverse gear to back up,
there is a new switch under the dashboard that reverses the direction the
electric motor turns, so you flip the switch and press on the ‘gas’ pedal to
go backwards!

“Since the conversion, friends have described the Bug as ‘born again,’ but
I’m sticking to my ‘heart transplant’ analogy because although it has a new

[EVDL] EVLN: (spied)> 'the wonderful little' BMW iX3 (w/ less camo) (v)

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/08/31/bmw-ix3-ev-spy-photos/BMW iX3 EV spied
with little camo
Aug 31st 2018  John Beltz Snyder

[images  / CarPix
https://s.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/741/140/5/S7411405/slug/l/bmw-ix3-ev-spy-photos-1-1.jpg
Featured Gallery

https://s.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/741/141/1/S7411411/slug/l/bmw-ix3-ev-spy-photos-7-1.jpg
BMW ix3 spy photos

https://s.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/741/141/5/S7411415/slug/l/bmw-ix3-ev-spy-photos-11-1.jpg

https://img.vidible.tv/prod/2017-12/22/5a3c9e7a1e64223b3a55a2f6/5a3c9f6575a8042ca46cc411_o_U_v1.jpg


video  flash
BMW ix3 walk around
]

The march toward production continues

We liked what we saw when BMW showed off its electric iX3 crossover concept
at the Beijing Motor Show earlier this year. It's a segment that seems ready
to take off, and to have BMW in the mix — with the knowledge it gained from
cars like the wonderful little i3 — seems like a nice injection of
competition. It's encouraging to see the production version begin to take
shape in these spy shots.

It looks like the iX3 will retain a lot of the visual character of the
concept, which, apart from the wheels, looked fairly palatable for public
consumption. We see the same way the front edge of the hood dances around
the top of the double kidney grille. It looks like the front and rear
bumpers have been toned down a bit from the concept.

We do see a whole bunch of sensors integrated into the body. Looks like
there's the usual ultrasonics in the bumpers, as well as a radar unit up
front and some cameras that weren't on the concept. It'll be interesting to
see what sort of technology is baked into the iX3 when it arrives, probably
in 2020.

According to BMW, the concept's 70-kWh battery pack was good for about 249
miles using the WLTP cycle. Its electric motor provides 268 horsepower.
Using a 150-kW fast charger, the iX3 can recharge in just 30 minutes.
[© autoblog.com]


+
http://www.nan.ng/motoring/electric-cars-in-europe-pass-one-million-mark/
Electric cars in Europe pass one million mark
2018-08-27  The total number of electric cars in Europe has reached the
million mark, after sales increased by more than 40 percent in the first
half of the year, said a report ...
http://s18694.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Electric-car-comes-in-for-a-plug-in.-Europe-now-has-more-than-one-million-electric-cars-on-the-road-e1535356163712.jpg
...
http://www.thedrive.com/news/23213/report-europe-buys-its-millionth-electric-vehicle
Report: Europe Buys Its Millionth Electric Vehicle
August 28, 2018  Europe has reportedly purchased a total of one million
electric vehicles. According to European electric vehicle sales figures kept
by EV Volumes ...




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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[EVDL] Bird e-scooters.cn invasion on Kimmel

[brucedp5 via EV]

[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Invasion-of-the-e-scooters-dirt-cheap-marketing-cn-abusively-used-tp4690608p4691040.html
]

https://abc.go.com/shows/jimmy-kimmel-live/video/featured/VDKA5131490




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 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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