Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla

[robert winfield via EV]

Perhaps a simple solution is to figure how to carefully control 2,000,000,000 
(2 billion) 18650's and 2170's Li batteries with excellent microcontrollers for 
temp, charge/discharge, etc. by putting them into, so far, 250,000 individual 
vehicles that _all_ are monitored in _surreal_ time by the mothership in real 
world conditions, beta testing in real world, that seems to point to small 
individual monitored cells better, prismatic and pouch cells, not so 
good.Remember betamax vs VHS?VHS won because they overwhelmed competition.Also, 
Tesla, just in 2018, used over 84% of Li batteries thru September for 100% 
EV's(100,000 model 3's so far)

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 11:22 AM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:   
Rod Hower via EV wrote:
>>> You probably shouldn't use microcontrollers because they have
>>> millions of transistors with the potential of failure...

David Roden wrote:
>> I don't think it's quite the same. The microcontroller has lots
>> of semiconductors, but they're all formed at one go on one
>> substrate. OTOH, the lithium cells are individual units,
>> manufactured individually, with individually welded connections.  
>> 
>> I too was skeptical about the Tesla ant colony battery construction
>> -- which IIRC actually was used in earlier EVs with much less
>> publicity and far lower production numbers. I believe the T-Zero
>> Roadster was one of them.  

Paul Dove wrote
> It’s called sarcasm! 

(smiles) so true... but it's hard to recognize sarcasm when folks aren't 
familiar with the actual situation.

Putting lots of parts on the same chip means the reliability of each part is 
closely related to the rest. If one part is good, they're all good. If one 
transistor is weak, or one resistor has a resistance too low, they are ALL are 
weak or low resistance. And when one part fails, they all likely to fail.

Same for batteries. Yes, a big cell is really a lot of small cells inside. It 
may have multiple plates wired in parallel, or one big plate folded or rolled 
into a cylinder (any piece of which would have been a fine cell in its own 
right). All these little cells were manufactured at the same time, and are 
"identical twins". Then they all get put in one big case, which seals the whole 
lot of them. This means they will all be kept together, at the same 
temperature, and experience the same charging and discharging regimen.

Contrast that with individual cells. When they started mass-producing cheap 
18650 lithium cells for laptops, many people independently came up with the 
idea of using thousands of them to build an EV pack. The initial attempts were 
failures, because there were too many differences between cells. Lots of 
failures and fires. Alan Cocconi is the first person I heard of that succeeded 
with them in his tZero. It required carefully matched cells, and a BMS to 
individually monitor them. The tZero inspired the Tesla Roadster, and led to 
their subsequent EVs.

It only works if you get every single detail right. That's expensive. You can 
afford it for luxury cars where there is enough money to do it right. But I 
have serious doubts that it can be scaled to mass-produce cheap EVs. They'll 
get beat by the first company to figure out the best way to use far smaller 
numbers of much bigger cells.

Complex solutions always come first. Simple solutions take longer to perfect; 
but usually win out in the end.


--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla

[robert winfield via EV]

I would also suggest the simpler solutions are winning out.Look at PV and micro 
and nanogrids and DER's (distributed Energy) and nascent VPP'sVery robust 
failure modes.Many point source power generatorsWhy transmit electrons miles 
when 50 ft or less will do.If 1-2 18650's or 2170's fail or "get weird" no big 
deal.If 1-2 pouch or prismatic's get funky, big deal
But I have serious doubts that it can be scaled to mass-produce cheap EVs. 
They'll get beat by the first company to figure out the best way to use far 
smaller numb

Complex solutions always come first. Simple solutions take longer to perfect; 
but usually win out i

  
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Re: [EVDL] 12 v desulfator charger

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

It is Soniel.  They are available at 15 dollars each for a 3 amp charger. Ebay. 
 Lawrence Rhodes

  From: Lee Hart 
 To: "primobass...@sbcglobal.net" ; Electric 
Vehicle Discussion List  
 Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:13 AM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] 12 v desulfator charger
   
>From: Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
>There used to be a Canadian charger company that had a desulfator function. 
>Sol something. Can't remember the name. Can someone remember or recommend 
>an inexpensive charger/ desulfator.  I am going to use Genesis 12v 13 ep. 4 in 
>series.  I want to use four small chargers.  

"Desulfator" is usually marketing doubletalk. All it means is that the charger 
can apply a higher-than-usual voltage at lower-than-usual current to a very 
dead battery. The doubletalk will make a big deal about their secret 
proprietary pulsed charging algorithms. But, most plain old dumb car battery 
charger consists of nothing but a transformer and rectifier; they inevitably 
deliver over 16v of pulsed charging current into a completely dead battery.

If you don't let your batteries run too dead, you'll never need to "desulfate" 
them anyway. If you *do* run them that dead, nothing is going to recover more 
than a fraction of their original capacity anyway. It's cheaper to buy a new 
battery than pay for some expensive "desulfator". These things are sold mainly 
for car batteries, where even 1% of their original amphour capacity is still 
enough to start the car (3 seconds at 300 amps is only 0.25 amphour).

I have a couple of EV lawnmowers. The chargers that came with them were junk 
(battery killers). I use individual 12v chargers (Ault brand), built for 
electric wheelchairs. The 3 batteries in one are all still good, and the 2 in 
the Robomower are now over 10 years old.

--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com

   
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Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf key: $300! Yikes

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SBB-Key-V33-02-Maker-Programmer-IMMOBILISER-ECU-Auto-Remote-Car-OBD2-OBDII-Tool/253896631771?epid=2110164921=item3b1d6b25db:g:UHMAAOSwUVBbquwr:rk:3:pf:0
   It appears you can buy another brand for 3 to 5 thousand dollars or this 
one.  I have no Idea if it will work.  But I might give it a try.  I saw the 
expensive one work in less than 5 minutes.  Lawrence Rhodes

  From: Cor van de Water 
 To: Lawrence Rhodes ; Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List  
 Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:54 AM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf key: $300! Yikes
   
I got only one key with one of my Leafs, so i bought a used key fob off 
Craigslist and a cheap uncut key off Ebay and had it cut by a local 
keysmith.Several weeks later i was going in for service at my local dealer, 
brought the 2nd key and asked them to register the key as part of the service, 
since they have a minimum $160 fee for the service, which i needed to pay 
anyway.They registered the key and apologized that they had left a DTC in the 
memory of the car. No lights were on, on the dash but the 2013 key fob 
apparently sent a message to the car that it did not understand, because the 
2011 Leaf does not have a remote charging door opener.The other 3 keys worked 
as expected, so i did not care about the one redundant button, that is why i 
bought that fob.I have not found a way to register a Leaf key myself, like you 
can do with Toyota.Cor.
On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 3:04 AM Lawrence Rhodes via EV  wrote:

Couldn't I just get any Nissan fob? Is anyone in the Bay area capable of 
programing fobs for less than hundred bucks? My son lost our key. Lawrence 
Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf key: $300! Yikes

[Rod Hower via EV]

I have a 2014 Volt, which I've drove the past 2200 miles electric only.  The 
charge door on my Volt is just push it and it pops open.  Almost all new cars 
have the $300 key, they even try to sell you insurance when you buy a new car 
for the key, along with a bunch of other BS they try to sell when you buy new!  
The last car I bought new was a 1994 Saturn.  My 3 kids have had new cars 
thanks in part to grandpa, so I've had to deal with these dealerships for 
those, what a pain in the ass!
 

On Saturday, October 13, 2018 7:14 PM, Tom Keenan via EV 
 wrote:
 

 I have a 2013 Leaf.  It has a charging door open button inside at the left of 
the steering wheel.  I normally use the ‘inside’ button when I get home and the 
EV is parked for the day.  
Occasionally, I forget to unlock the door before I get out, or if I happen to 
not plug it in until later in the evening. The remote button is useful (saves 
opening the car, pressing the inside button, locking the car again) but really 
is only a small convenience.  Especially if you get the plug from the EVSE rack 
only to find you’ve forgotten to unlock the charge port door. 
I like having the remote charging door unlock on the fob, even if I only use it 
once every few weeks. 

Tom Keenan

> On Oct 13, 2018, at 2:12 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 14 Oct 2018 at 7:57, Tom Parker via EV wrote:
>> 
>> My 2016 Leaf has remote charge port opening -- the key fob has a 3rd 
>> button, if you hold it down for about 2 seconds, the door opens.
> 
> Darned if I can see the point of this.  How hard could it be to open the 
> charging port door with your left hand, when you're standing there with the 
> charging connector in your right hand?  (Or vice versa.)  
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like I'd be more trouble to get 
> the keys out and find the right button.  And then you have to hold it down 
> for a while.  Nuisance.
> 
> OTOH, inside release fuel filler doors make sense.  They help prevent fuel 
> theft.  But with an EV, who's gonna steal your electrons?  Or is that a 
> thing now somehow?  Or EV charging port vandalism?  If so, does a remote 
> release really help?
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf key: $300! Yikes

[Tom Keenan via EV]

I have a 2013 Leaf.  It has a charging door open button inside at the left of 
the steering wheel.  I normally use the ‘inside’ button when I get home and the 
EV is parked for the day.  
Occasionally, I forget to unlock the door before I get out, or if I happen to 
not plug it in until later in the evening. The remote button is useful (saves 
opening the car, pressing the inside button, locking the car again) but really 
is only a small convenience.  Especially if you get the plug from the EVSE rack 
only to find you’ve forgotten to unlock the charge port door. 
I like having the remote charging door unlock on the fob, even if I only use it 
once every few weeks. 

Tom Keenan

> On Oct 13, 2018, at 2:12 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 14 Oct 2018 at 7:57, Tom Parker via EV wrote:
>> 
>> My 2016 Leaf has remote charge port opening -- the key fob has a 3rd 
>> button, if you hold it down for about 2 seconds, the door opens.
> 
> Darned if I can see the point of this.  How hard could it be to open the 
> charging port door with your left hand, when you're standing there with the 
> charging connector in your right hand?  (Or vice versa.)  
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like I'd be more trouble to get 
> the keys out and find the right button.  And then you have to hold it down 
> for a while.  Nuisance.
> 
> OTOH, inside release fuel filler doors make sense.  They help prevent fuel 
> theft.  But with an EV, who's gonna steal your electrons?  Or is that a 
> thing now somehow?  Or EV charging port vandalism?  If so, does a remote 
> release really help?
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf key: $300! Yikes

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 14 Oct 2018 at 7:57, Tom Parker via EV wrote:

> My 2016 Leaf has remote charge port opening -- the key fob has a 3rd 
> button, if you hold it down for about 2 seconds, the door opens.

Darned if I can see the point of this.  How hard could it be to open the 
charging port door with your left hand, when you're standing there with the 
charging connector in your right hand?  (Or vice versa.)  

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like I'd be more trouble to get 
the keys out and find the right button.  And then you have to hold it down 
for a while.  Nuisance.

OTOH, inside release fuel filler doors make sense.  They help prevent fuel 
theft.  But with an EV, who's gonna steal your electrons?  Or is that a 
thing now somehow?  Or EV charging port vandalism?  If so, does a remote 
release really help?

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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[EVDL] Teslaquila: Musk'$ puro de agave C2H5OH> (no-squiffy riders)

[brucedp5 via EV]

% I had another item I was researching to put together after I had watched
the Joe-Rogan Musk-interview video (below @bottom). Then this newswire item
came out.
In the interview Musk states he has several ideas, after running some by his
people, a few get offered as a money making opportunity (see links @bottom).
i.e: Boring hats, flamethrower, etc. these were limited offerings (with
statements keeping them legal).
IMO, but this Teslaquila product might be a long term $maker.
I only hope what was stated in the video interview of Tesla's auto-pilot
soon to be upgraded to full auton won't lead to C2H5OH quaffed-riders trying
to sue Tesla.
%

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/international-business/elon-musk-led-tesla-actually-files-trademark-application-for-teslaquila/articleshow/66194854.cms
Elon Musk-led Tesla actually files trademark application for 'Teslaquila'
2018-10-13  

[image  
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpUqgaUVAAA82oe?format=jpg
Teslaquila label/bottle (Visual-approximation/prototype)


share
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1050792830732394496
]

The electric-car maker submitted a trademark application on October 8 for
Teslaquila, describing the planned product as a distilled agave liquor

Tesla chief executive Elon Musk tweeted on Friday that the brand would be
'coming soon'

NEW DELHI: What started as an April Fools’ Day joke that left a poor taste
in Tesla Inc investors’ mouths may soon become a reality.

The electric-car maker submitted a trademark application on October 8 for ,
describing the planned product as a distilled agave liquor. It was filed as
“based on intent to use,” which means Tesla doesn’t have the product ready
just yet. The company needs to actually be making a product to obtain the
trademark.

Tesla chief executive officer  tweeted on Friday that the brand would be
coming soon. Musk also posted a mock-up of roughly what the tequila bottle
will look like.
[© timesofindia.indiatimes.com]
...
https://www.google.com/search?q=puro+de+agave
...
http://www.casasauza.com/everything-about-tequila/chemical-composition-tequila
...
https://www.google.com/search?q=ethanol+formula


https://www.google.com/search?q=Teslaquila
(several newswires found on this topic: )

Fancy a bottle of Teslaquila? Elon Musk files patent for Tesla-themed ...
International Business Times, India Edition-44 minutes ago
An April Fool's Day prank may soon see the light of day as billionaire
entrepreneur Elon Musk has confirmed that a Tesla-branded tequila, called
"Teslaquila", ...
   Autoblog (blog)
A tale of Tesla, taxes and tequila
Autoblog (blog)-3 hours ago
... the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office for a brand name that would cover
"Distilled agave liquor; Distilled blue agave liquor?" It's called
Teslaquila, and while it ...
   News18
Elon Musk's April Fool Joke to Become Reality, Tesla-branded Tequila ...
News18-4 hours ago
Teslaquila first featured in an April Fool's joke in which Musk, the CEO of
Tesla, said on Twitter that he had been found "passed out against a Tesla
Model 3, ...
   CNBCTV18
Tesla-branded tequila 'Teslaquila' coming soon, says Elon Musk
CNBCTV18-5 hours ago
An April Fool's Day prank may soon see the light of day as billionaire
entrepreneur Elon Musk has confirmed that a Tesla-branded tequila, called
"Teslaquila", ...
Elon Musk confirms a Tesla-branded tequila, called "Teslaquila", is ...
NewsNow.IN-5 hours ago
Elon Musk confirms a Tesla-branded tequila, called "Teslaquila", is "coming
soon".»» Category:tech~Source: firstpost1 min. ago ...
   The Stopru
Tesla will begin producing tequila
The Stopru-6 hours ago
On Monday, the electric car manufacturer Tesla has filed a patent and
trademark office application for registration of the brand Teslaquila to
produce tequila.
   ETAuto.com
Elon Musk files trademark for a Tesla-branded tequila, Teslaquila
ETAuto.com-6 hours ago
Teslaquila first featured in an April Fool's joke in which Musk, the CEO of
Tesla, said on Twitter that he had been found "passed out against a Tesla
Model 3, ...
   The Siver Times
Tesla goes with the cars on the tequila
The Siver Times-8 hours ago
Musk showed how will look the product. Manufacturer of electric Tesla has
applied for registration of the brand of tequila Teslaquila. About this
report the data of ...
   USA TODAY
'Teslaquila': Elon Musk may soon be selling Tesla-themed booze
Newsline-8 hours ago
A trademark application filed by Tesla on Monday seeks to protect the name
“Teslaquila” and identifies the product as “distilled agave liquor;
Distilled blue agave ...
   SME Times
Tesla-branded tequila 'Teslaquila' coming soon: Elon Musk
SME Times-8 hours ago
An April Fool's Day prank may soon see the light of day as billionaire
entrepreneur Elon Musk has confirmed that a Tesla-branded tequila, called
"Teslaquila", ...
   eTeknix
Elon Musk Announces Plans For Teslaquila Tequila Brand
eTeknix-9 hours ago
With Elon Musk filing the patent last Monday, he now owns the branding to
'Teslaquila'. To 

Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf key: $300! Yikes

[Chris Tromley via EV]

I bought my i-MiEV used and it only came with one original key.  That
wasn't going to be enough, so I took the OEM key to a locksmith and he was
able to clone it.  I don't remember, but I think it only cost like $50 -
$100.  ILCO makes the blanks and read/write equipment, and it seems to be
pretty commonly available.  Check with your locksmith to make sure.  The
clone has no buttons on it, but it talks to the ignition switch just fine.
I like it that way, since I'm apparently one of the 3 people left who
actually carries my keys in my pocket t all times. That's a problem with
the full-zoot keys/fobs, because getting jumbled in a pocket with stooping,
standing, leaning against stuff, etc. gets their buttons pushed and drains
the batteries.  Turns out unlocking the door manually (gasp!) isn't really
the inconvenience some think it is.

Chris

On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 5:47 AM Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
wrote:

> Couldn't I just get any Nissan fob? Is anyone in the Bay area capable of
> programing fobs for less than hundred bucks? My son lost our key. Lawrence
> Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf key: $300! Yikes

[Tom Parker via EV]

On 14/10/18 07:46, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:


I meant on the key fob. For the 2011 and 2012 there is only a dash handle
to open the door latch.
The 2013+ has an electric latch opener, so theoretically it can be opened
remotely, but the functions on the wireless interface are severely limited.
Cor.


My 2016 Leaf has remote charge port opening -- the key fob has a 3rd 
button, if you hold it down for about 2 seconds, the door opens.


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Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf key: $300! Yikes

[Cor van de Water via EV]

I meant on the key fob. For the 2011 and 2012 there is only a dash handle
to open the door latch.
The 2013+ has an electric latch opener, so theoretically it can be opened
remotely, but the functions on the wireless interface are severely limited.
Cor.

On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 10:39 AM Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
wrote:

> We have remote charge port opening function?  Lawrence Rhodes
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>   On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 9:54 AM, Cor van de Water<
> cor.vandewa...@gmail.com> wrote:   I got only one key with one of my
> Leafs, so i bought a used key fob off Craigslist and a cheap uncut key off
> Ebay and had it cut by a local keysmith.Several weeks later i was going in
> for service at my local dealer, brought the 2nd key and asked them to
> register the key as part of the service, since they have a minimum $160 fee
> for the service, which i needed to pay anyway.They registered the key and
> apologized that they had left a DTC in the memory of the car. No lights
> were on, on the dash but the 2013 key fob apparently sent a message to the
> car that it did not understand, because the 2011 Leaf does not have a
> remote charging door opener.The other 3 keys worked as expected, so i did
> not care about the one redundant button, that is why i bought that fob.I
> have not found a way to register a Leaf key myself, like you can do with
> Toyota.Cor.
> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 3:04 AM Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
> wrote:
>
> Couldn't I just get any Nissan fob? Is anyone in the Bay area capable of
> programing fobs for less than hundred bucks? My son lost our key. Lawrence
> Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf key: $300! Yikes

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

We have remote charge port opening function?  Lawrence Rhodes

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 9:54 AM, Cor van de Water 
wrote:   I got only one key with one of my Leafs, so i bought a used key fob 
off Craigslist and a cheap uncut key off Ebay and had it cut by a local 
keysmith.Several weeks later i was going in for service at my local dealer, 
brought the 2nd key and asked them to register the key as part of the service, 
since they have a minimum $160 fee for the service, which i needed to pay 
anyway.They registered the key and apologized that they had left a DTC in the 
memory of the car. No lights were on, on the dash but the 2013 key fob 
apparently sent a message to the car that it did not understand, because the 
2011 Leaf does not have a remote charging door opener.The other 3 keys worked 
as expected, so i did not care about the one redundant button, that is why i 
bought that fob.I have not found a way to register a Leaf key myself, like you 
can do with Toyota.Cor.
On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 3:04 AM Lawrence Rhodes via EV  wrote:

Couldn't I just get any Nissan fob? Is anyone in the Bay area capable of 
programing fobs for less than hundred bucks? My son lost our key. Lawrence 
Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf key: $300! Yikes

[Cor van de Water via EV]

I got only one key with one of my Leafs, so i bought a used key fob off
Craigslist and a cheap uncut key off Ebay and had it cut by a local
keysmith.
Several weeks later i was going in for service at my local dealer, brought
the 2nd key and asked them to register the key as part of the service,
since they have a minimum $160 fee for the service, which i needed to pay
anyway.
They registered the key and apologized that they had left a DTC in the
memory of the car. No lights were on, on the dash but the 2013 key fob
apparently sent a message to the car that it did not understand, because
the 2011 Leaf does not have a remote charging door opener.
The other 3 keys worked as expected, so i did not care about the one
redundant button, that is why i bought that fob.
I have not found a way to register a Leaf key myself, like you can do with
Toyota.
Cor.

On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 3:04 AM Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
wrote:

> Couldn't I just get any Nissan fob? Is anyone in the Bay area capable of
> programing fobs for less than hundred bucks? My son lost our key. Lawrence
> Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf key: $300! Yikes

[Thos True via EV]

This isn't just a Leaf or Prius issue. This is the standard for any
programmable key/ key fob. Several people over the past few years,  myself
included, have misplace their key/ fob on a newer vehicle only to find that
the fob costs $100 plus, and the programming is about $200, if you are
lucky. In many cases, the item is dealer only, requiring a tow to get it to
their facility (even more $$$!). Gone are the days of a simple cut key
(even for some newer homes it seems).
Gotta love progress!
-Tom True

On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 6:43 AM Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:

> your lucky.  Its $1200 for a prius fob if you have no key left.
> Otherwise it is $250 for the key plus $50 programming I think.
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 5:46 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  >
> wrote:
>
> > Couldn't I just get any Nissan fob? Is anyone in the Bay area capable of
> > programing fobs for less than hundred bucks? My son lost our key.
> Lawrence
> > Rhodes
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> >
> >
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>

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Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf key: $300! Yikes

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 13 Oct 2018 at 9:46, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

> Couldn't I just get any Nissan fob? Is anyone in the Bay area capable of
> programing fobs for less than hundred bucks? My son lost our key.

It appears that you can get the fobs online for around $50, but programming 
them requires the Nissan diagnostic tool.  

You can do the same net search I did ("nissan leaf key programming") and 
you'll learn that some locksmiths have the required gadget.  They may be 
cheaper than the dealer, but they won't work for free.  Looks like you'll be 
lucky if you can get it done for $100 all up.

When I was a teenager back in the early 1970s, I could start and drive 
either of my family's cars, a 1961 Dodge Lancer and a 1965 Dart, with 2 clip 
leads. I guess automotive security has changed since then.  

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] 12 v desulfator charger

[Lee Hart via EV]

>From: Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
>There used to be a Canadian charger company that had a desulfator function. 
>Sol something. Can't remember the name. Can someone remember or recommend 
>an inexpensive charger/ desulfator.  I am going to use Genesis 12v 13 ep. 4 in 
>series.  I want to use four small chargers.  

"Desulfator" is usually marketing doubletalk. All it means is that the charger 
can apply a higher-than-usual voltage at lower-than-usual current to a very 
dead battery. The doubletalk will make a big deal about their secret 
proprietary pulsed charging algorithms. But, most plain old dumb car battery 
charger consists of nothing but a transformer and rectifier; they inevitably 
deliver over 16v of pulsed charging current into a completely dead battery.

If you don't let your batteries run too dead, you'll never need to "desulfate" 
them anyway. If you *do* run them that dead, nothing is going to recover more 
than a fraction of their original capacity anyway. It's cheaper to buy a new 
battery than pay for some expensive "desulfator". These things are sold mainly 
for car batteries, where even 1% of their original amphour capacity is still 
enough to start the car (3 seconds at 300 amps is only 0.25 amphour).

I have a couple of EV lawnmowers. The chargers that came with them were junk 
(battery killers). I use individual 12v chargers (Ault brand), built for 
electric wheelchairs. The 3 batteries in one are all still good, and the 2 in 
the Robomower are now over 10 years old.

--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
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Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf key: $300! Yikes

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

your lucky.  Its $1200 for a prius fob if you have no key left.
Otherwise it is $250 for the key plus $50 programming I think.


On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 5:46 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
wrote:

> Couldn't I just get any Nissan fob? Is anyone in the Bay area capable of
> programing fobs for less than hundred bucks? My son lost our key. Lawrence
> Rhodes
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[EVDL] Nissan Leaf key: $300! Yikes

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

Couldn't I just get any Nissan fob? Is anyone in the Bay area capable of 
programing fobs for less than hundred bucks? My son lost our key. Lawrence 
Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] 12 v desulfator charger

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 13 Oct 2018 at 5:51, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

> Can someone remember or recommend
> an inexpensive charger/ desulfator.

That's exactly what a charger does -- it desulfates.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
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email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


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[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20181013

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Cadillac-EV-concept-will-it-be-another-1-2-baked-pih-tp4691399.html
EVLN: Cadillac EV concept> (will it be another 1/2-baked pih?)
Electric Cadillac Due In 2021
7 Oct 2018  The Free Press also understands that an electric vehicle is
coming in 2021 or 2022 at the latest. Even though not much is know ...
https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/electric-cadillac-due-in-2021_2.jpg


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Tesla-3p-beats-Dodge-Demon-v-tp4691400.html
EVLN: Tesla-3p beats Dodge Demon (v)
Tesla Model 3 Performance outruns Dodge Challenger SRT Demon ...
October 7, 2018  The Model 3 Performance's driver, Hunter Kupka, noted in an
email to Teslarati that it was his first time ... that his electric car was
only ...
https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/m3p-vs-dodge-srt-demon-1000x600.jpg


+
http://www.thedrive.com/tech/24182/jaguar-is-outfitting-its-electric-cars-with-spaceship-like-noises
Jaguar Is Outfitting Its Electric Cars With Spaceship-Like Noises
October 11, 2018  Regulations all over the globe are calling for electric
cars to emit noise as they creep along the road at low speeds in order to
protect those with visual ...
http://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/foundry/image/?q=70=1440=https%3A%2F%2Ftimedotcom.files.wordpress.com%2F2018%2F10%2F20181011-jaguar-i-pace.jpg%3Fquality%3D85


https://electrek.co/2018/10/10/tesla-gigafactory-3-land-china/
Tesla is bidding on a $145 million piece of land for much-needed Gigafactory
3 in China
Oct. 10th 2018  “In addition, Tesla continues to lack access to cash
incentives available to locally produced electric vehicles in China that are
typically around 15% of MSRP or ...
https://i1.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/01/screen-shot-2018-01-11-at-2-52-49-pm.jpg?resize=1500%2C0=82=all=1




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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[EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-3p beats Dodge Demon (v)

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-performance-vs-dodge-challenger-srt-demon-drag-race/
Tesla Model 3 Performance outruns Dodge Challenger SRT Demon in drag race
October 7, 2018  Simon Alvarez

[image  
https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/m3p-vs-dodge-srt-demon-1000x600.jpg

https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/M3P-vs-dodge-demon.jpg
Credti: 7zerex/YouTube


video
https://youtu.be/hS9yrwQFgL0
Model 3 Performance battle the Dodge Demon
]

The Dodge Challenger SRT Demon is a muscle car created specifically for the
drag strip. When Dodge was promoting the vehicle, the company’s execs were
quick to point out that the monster muscle car was quicker than a Tesla
Model S P100D. During testing, the Dodge Demon hit 60 mph in 2.1 seconds
(including rollout), while the electric car reached 60 mph in 2.28 seconds.

In more ways than one, the Dodge Challenger SRT Demon is a car that pushes
the boundaries of the internal combustion engine. Stepping on the
accelerator allows the vehicle to hit 30 mph in just one second, and with
the right setup, the car can finish the quarter mile in 9.65 seconds.
Equipped with a 6.2-liter Supercharged V8 engine that produces 808 hp, the
RWD, 8-speed Demon is one of the most formidable rivals of Tesla’s quickest
electric beast.

The Tesla Model 3 Performance is a quick vehicle, but it is a car that is
designed to be competitive on the track. It’s still formidable on the drag
strip, but in terms of straight-line acceleration and 0-60 mph times, it
still falls behind the Model S P100D or the Model X P100D with its 0-60 time
of 3.5 seconds. With this in mind, the Dodge Demon, which is designed to
compete and beat the Model S P100D, should have no problems outrunning the
Model 3 Performance in a drag race.

A recent set of races between the two vehicles has revealed that beating the
Model 3 Performance might not be too easy for the Dodge Demon.

One day you’re celebrating the first day at a new job. The next thing you
know, toasts are being raised at your retirement party.

A Tesla Model 3 Performance recently made an appearance at a
RaceLegal.com-organized 1/8-mile drag racing meet at the SDCCU Stadium in
San Diego, CA. The Model 3 Performance’s driver, Hunter Kupka, noted in an
email to Teslarati that it was his first time on the drag strip, and that
his electric car was only four-days-old when he went to the event. The Model
3 only had 70% of charge, and it had an extra 100 pounds of cargo in the
trunk. The stock tires of the vehicle were also inflated with 43-44 PSI, a
setting that is more optimized for range than maximum performance.

The Tesla Model 3 Performance and the Dodge Challenger SRT Demon engaged in
battle three times, and in each round, the electric sedan managed to
actually beat the monster muscle car to the 1/8-mile mark. In the first
race, the Model 3 Performance crossed the 1/8-mile marker in 7.7 seconds
while the Demon finished the race in 7.89 seconds. The second race was
better for the electric car, as it crossed the finish line in 7.69 seconds
while the Dodge completed the race in 7.7 seconds. In the third race, the
reaction time of the Demon’s driver resulted in another win for the Model 3
Performance, which finished the race in 7.73 seconds.

The results of the Model 3 Performance and the Dodge Demon’s 1/8-mile drag
races. (Credit: Hunter Kupka)

It should be noted that had the race gone longer, the Dodge Demon would have
most definitely caught up to the Model 3 Performance. In each of the races,
the fossil fuel-powered muscle car crossed the finish line traveling 9-10
mph faster than the electric sedan. That said, it remains undeniable that
the Model 3 Performance displayed an amazing amount of consistency during
the races, regardless of its state of charge or the PSI of its wheels.
[© teslarati.com]


https://sg.news.yahoo.com/electric-audi-rs3-drag-races-163001734.html
Electric Audi RS3 drag races Huracan Performante, 911 GT2 RS
Electric powertrains have a considerable potential to change how performance
cars operate. Instant torque makes acceleration a breeze, and it puts other
supercars on notice. The pinnacle of EV racing ...


+
https://electrek.co/2018/10/10/tesla-gigafactory-3-land-china/
Tesla is bidding on a $145 million piece of land for much-needed Gigafactory
3 in China
Oct. 10th 2018  “In addition, Tesla continues to lack access to cash
incentives available to locally produced electric vehicles in China that are
typically around 15% of MSRP or ...
https://i1.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/01/screen-shot-2018-01-11-at-2-52-49-pm.jpg?resize=1500%2C0=82=all=1




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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[EVDL] EVLN: Cadillac EV concept> (will it be another 1/2-baked pih?)

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/electric-cadillac-due-in-2021-129194.html
Electric Cadillac Due In 2021
7 Oct 2018  Mircea Panait

[images  
https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/electric-cadillac-due-in-2021_2.jpg

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/electric-cadillac-due-in-2021-129194.html#agal_0
Cadillac Escala concept
]

Cadillac is extremely busy right now. In addition to two all-new sedans that
replace the ATS and CTS, the CT6 V-Sport takes the sporting heritage of the
automaker to the next level thanks to the Blackwing V8. The XT6 crossover is
scheduled to premiere at the 2019 Detroit Auto Show, and the Escalade will
transition to the body-on-frame vehicle platform of the 2019 GMC Sierra for
the 2020 model year. The question is, what happens next?

According to the Free Press, there’s a subcompact crossover in the pipeline
for 2020. Expected to be called XT2 or XT3, the newcomer will serve as the
smaller brother of the XT4. For the time being, the XT4 is the cheapest
Cadillac on sale in the United States, starting at $34,795.

The Free Press also understands that an electric vehicle is coming in 2021
or 2022 at the latest. Even though not much is known about this car, it
makes sense for Cadillac to equip the indirect successor of the ELR with
Super Cruise and all the latest technologies from other General Motors
divisions.

Manufactured from 2013 to 2016 at the Hamtramck Assembly Plant, the ELR
didn’t sell well for a handful of reasons. In addition to being too
expensive for a re-skinned Chevrolet Volt [pih], the ELR [pih] wasn’t all
that luxurious. Neither was it too efficient. Over the course of four years,
Cadillac managed to sell less than 3,000 examples of the breed.

The CT6 Plug-In is the only electrified Cadillac on sale today, retailing at
$75,095. Manufactured in China by Shanghai GM, the eco-friendly sedan
promises 62 MPGe on the combined cycle and 335 horsepower. On electricity
alone, the CT6 Plug-In [pih] is much obliged to offer up to 31 miles
[e-range].

Speaking to investors at an event in November 2017, General Motors announced
that the next-generation platform for electric vehicles will be capable of
more than 300 miles of range. Vice-president of global product development,
Mark Reuss, also confirmed two electric crossovers within 18 months, both
sharing their underpinnings with the Chevrolet Bolt.

The rest of the electric vehicle lineup will use the platform that replaces
the BEV II of the Bolt [EV]. Up to this point, General Motors has confirmed
a five-passenger sport utility vehicle, a “luxury low-roof vehicle,” and an
“efficient low-roof car.” Derivates will include a “luxury compact CUV,
large seven-passenger SUV,” and even a luxury-oriented SUV with seating for
seven.
[© autoevolution.com]


https://www.carscoops.com/2018/10/cadillacs-first-electric-vehicle-reportedly-coming-2020-2021/
Cadillac’s First Electric Vehicle Reportedly Coming In 2020 Or 2021
October 6, 2018  General Motors teased a mysterious electric coupe last
October and then followed up one month later by announcing plans for a ...
https://images.carscoops.com/2018/01/04b7e673-cadillac-ct5-1-768x469.jpg


+
http://www.thedrive.com/tech/24182/jaguar-is-outfitting-its-electric-cars-with-spaceship-like-noises
Jaguar Is Outfitting Its Electric Cars With Spaceship-Like Noises
October 11, 2018  Regulations all over the globe are calling for electric
cars to emit noise as they creep along the road at low speeds in order to
protect those with visual ...
http://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/foundry/image/?q=70=1440=https%3A%2F%2Ftimedotcom.files.wordpress.com%2F2018%2F10%2F20181011-jaguar-i-pace.jpg%3Fquality%3D85




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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