Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks be Electric?
If I could have left a comment on the article making that exact point I would have... along with the fact that if this guy is that stupid (let alone stupid enough to allow such a ignorant comment to go onto the 'world wide web' for all to see) he a/ isn't fit to hold his current position and b/ isn't worth listening to. So I deleted the email and moved on! MW On 19 Mar 2015, at 16:56, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On 19 Mar 2015 at 14:37, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: As the interviewee said, they don't travel that many miles in a day but they do idle the engine a lot. Here's exactly what he said : ... you have to ask how many miles postal workers travel in a day. Not many, though they travel a long time and they keep the engine idling. They probably travel more in a day than they would be able to if this was an electric car. So, not many [miles], but more in a day than they would be able to if this was an electric car. That's what he said. This is what I hear: I don't have a clue how many miles a postal route covers, but I've already decided that it's more than an EV can handle. Oh, no thanks, I don't need any facts; I've already made up my mind. How sad - for the USPS, and for all of us. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks be Electric?
On 20 Mar 2015 at 8:53, tomw via EV wrote: The USPS has a long history of testing electric vehicles, starting in the late 1800's: https://about.usps.com/who-we-are/postal-history/electric-vehicles.pdf Looks like it was mainly the suppliers who were responsible for them not being implemented. So THEY say. With all due respect, I'm more inclined to buy Lee Hart's account. It fits in with what I've read in other places, particularly about maintenance people deliberately sabotaging EVs. For example, though I can't recall any more whether it was USPS mechanics or others, I remember reading about maintenance staff watering flooded lead batteries by spraying them with a garden hose. Even if it wasn't at the USPS, it's the kind of treatment that EV-hating mechanics have long visited on EVs when they were added to ICEV fleets. I used to think that education would fix this. Having seen how calcified many of these minds are, though, I no longer believe that that's going to be very effective. IMO, the only way to fix anti-EV sentiment in the USPS or anywhere else is for an EV-positive leader to take over the job, probably at the highest level, and JUST DO IT. He or she should give the naysayers - managers, drivers, maintenance crew, whatever - one chance to start doing their jobs right, whether they agree with EVs or not. If they don't, sack 'em and hire people who will. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks be Electric?
John, Please note that you are commenting on UPS (the brown delivery trucks) while the discussion was on USPS (the white box vans with blue eagle) which is a company delivering only in USA as far as I know, since it stands for US Postal Service, not the United Parcel Service that you referred to. Just trying to avoid confusion... Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Hoegberg via EV Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 1:46 PM To: ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks be Electric? To: ev@lists.evdl.org Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 20:06:48 + Subject: Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks be Electric? From: ev@lists.evdl.org Actually, the Nissan e-NV200 could be an option. Here, in Seattle, the USPS mostly uses minivans for delivery. (They have their stepvans for package delivery making separate routes.) I don't know if it has enough range for a full day or not. But, with a 20 minute quick charge during lunch, I'm sure it would. Range would be a big problem here, (I assume the driver has a routes of about 400km a day, and no charge time would be possible) but maybe as an inner city delivery company only then it would probably work. What would it take to get USPS to start replacing their 12mpg(*) -A miracle ? :-) UPS is one of the most stupid delivery company on earth, drivers are not alowed to have a phone so they can ask for directions.. AND not allowed to have GPS!!??! Well..Good luck with that in Sweden, our country is not made of square blocks. :-P it is common that they drive the daily 350 km with an insane bad aero truck just to find out that they cant find the way to the customer, the last 2km or so.. They sometimes print out the Googlemaps-route instead, for the poor stressed out driver to use,, I got packages with 5 different zoom levels taped to the boxes.. wow. The thing also have one of the lowest ratings I have ever seen on any company minivans with EVs? What would USPS driver acceptance be for a vehicle that is already well accepted by others? The driver is not the problem, they are in general good.. But it is an US-based company, and ruled by some very stubborn top dogs dictators without common sense. and without Ears? :-) I dont know if google translate will do a good job on the reviews, but it should be a good laugh to read and a hint about how to NOT run a delivery company! http://gulasidorna.eniro.se/f/ups-united-parcel-service-sweden-ab:3513033 http://translate.google.se/#sv/en/ / John ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks be Electric?
Lee wrote - I wonder what would happen if Tesla took a page from Apple, and offered free trial EVs to the Post Office? Like Apple offering free computers to schools, free got them hooked. Then they went on to spend billions of dollars to buy more. Apple got all their money back, and a lot more! ;-) Excellent idea Lee - I can see it now. Postperson enters Tesla Showroom and says 'I drive a Tesla Mail Carrier for work, now I want the Model S for play.' Rush www.TucsonEV.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks be Electric?
Rush Dougherty via EV wrote: Lee wrote - I wonder what would happen if Tesla took a page from Apple, and offered free trial EVs to the Post Office? Like Apple offering free computers to schools, free got them hooked. Then they went on to spend billions of dollars to buy more. Apple got all their money back, and a lot more!;-) Excellent idea Lee - I can see it now. Postperson enters Tesla Showroom and says 'I drive a Tesla Mail Carrier for work, now I want the Model S for play.' They might not hook the mail carriers themselves. They're not likely to be rich enough to afford one. But I *can* see using the model S ust to get the mail carriers to be enthusiastic supporters of EVs. After all, they get to drive a sports car instead of a truck! Then Tesla can sell customized EV mail trucks to the Post Office for some inflated price, to get back all the money they spent on the free samples. -- We cannot waste time. We can only waste ourselves. -- George Matthew Adams -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks be Electric?
Actually, the Nissan e-NV200 could be an option. Here, in Seattle, the USPS mostly uses minivans for delivery. (They have their stepvans for package delivery making separate routes.) I don't know if it has enough range for a full day or not. But, with a 20 minute quick charge during lunch, I'm sure it would. What would it take to get USPS to start replacing their 12mpg(*) minivans with EVs? What would USPS driver acceptance be for a vehicle that is already well accepted by others? (*) My ICE minivan purportedly gets 25mph. But in the city, with stop and go, it's about 12mpg. Peri -- Original Message -- From: Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 19-Mar-15 2:04:00 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks be Electric? Rush Dougherty via EV wrote: Lee wrote - I wonder what would happen if Tesla took a page from Apple, and offered free trial EVs to the Post Office? Like Apple offering free computers to schools, free got them hooked. Then they went on to spend billions of dollars to buy more. Apple got all their money back, and a lot more!;-) Excellent idea Lee - I can see it now. Postperson enters Tesla Showroom and says 'I drive a Tesla Mail Carrier for work, now I want the Model S for play.' They might not hook the mail carriers themselves. They're not likely to be rich enough to afford one. But I *can* see using the model S ust to get the mail carriers to be enthusiastic supporters of EVs. After all, they get to drive a sports car instead of a truck! Then Tesla can sell customized EV mail trucks to the Post Office for some inflated price, to get back all the money they spent on the free samples. -- We cannot waste time. We can only waste ourselves. -- George Matthew Adams -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks be Electric?
Interesting story. I'm surprised that the story didn't mention hybrids. That seems like it would be ideal for postal delivery trucks. The energy from the frequent stops would be recaptured and could be used for acceleration. That is well developed technology for SUVs. Mike On March 19, 2015 2:17:13 AM MDT, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2015/03/greener-delivery/ Greener delivery? March 16, 2015 | By Alvin Powell [image / Jon Chase/Harvard Staff Photographer http://media.news.harvard.edu/gazette/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/031315_mail_truck_022_605.jpg (old usps ice) With the U.S. Postal Service poised to replace its mail trucks, which get 9 mpg, with more fuel-efficient models, the options can get complicated. For the biggest impact, improving the efficiency of truck engines, particularly small trucks, is the answer, contends Henry Lee, an authority on electric cars and the Jassim M. Jaidah Family Director of the Environment and Natural Resources Program at the Belfer Center ] Wider opportunities seen as Postal Service looks to improve on 9 miles per gallon The boxy mail truck familiar on American roads for more than two decades soon may be a thing of the past. The Postal Service is beginning the process of replacing some 180,000 of the trucks, a significant portion of its total fleet. The request for proposals sent to automakers in January carried several design considerations, including enhanced fuel efficiency, lower emissions, and enough space to allow workers to stand up in the back as they grab letters and boxes for delivery. The Gazette asked Henry Lee, an authority on electric cars and the Jassim M. Jaidah Family Director of the Environment and Natural Resources Program at the Belfer Center, about the opportunity for the Postal Service to improve its environmental footprint — and perhaps spark broader automotive changes — through a more fuel-efficient replacement for the current model, which gets roughly 9 miles per gallon. GAZETTE: How important should fuel efficiency be to the Postal Service’s consideration of a new vehicle? LEE: That’s a tough question to answer. From the perspective of someone concerned about the environment, they should be quite concerned. But if I was [head] of the Postal Service, I might say, “If society cares about this issue, they’ll put a price on carbon and that will change my thinking about what I’m going to buy. But if they won’t do it, why should the people who buy mail services and a company that’s multiple billions of dollars in the red pay more for something that government hasn’t told us it cares about?” GAZETTE: Would that higher initial cost be offset by lower operating cost? You take something that gets nine miles a gallon and get something that gets 25? LEE: I haven’t done the numbers, but you have to ask how many miles postal workers travel in a day. Not many, though they travel a long time and they keep the engine idling. They probably travel more in a day than they would be able to if this was an electric car. They’d probably run out of electricity. I haven’t done the analysis, but what if you went to natural gas? Or hydrogen? Certainly natural gas would be an option. GAZETTE: Not electricity, though, because of the number of hours they’re on the road? LEE: Well, you have to have a lot of batteries to move something that heavy. So if you need 30 to 34 batteries — lithium batteries — the cost of the vehicle would be $20,000 more, times 180,000, which is a pretty big number. The good news for electric vehicles is that they would all go back to the same garage in the evening, and you could put charging facilities in the garage quite easily. So charging won’t be a problem, which it might be if you or I bought the car. But you’d have to figure that it needs more batteries than a normal car. You really don’t want the vehicle to have to come back at noon to be recharged. So you’re going to need more batteries in each vehicle so you have longer range. A Tesla has a phenomenal number of batteries. But it can go for 240 miles. GAZETTE: Do you have a sense of what an ideal mail vehicle would look like? LEE: No. It’s an interesting problem. If I had two weeks free, I bet I could come up with some ideas. I can tell you what won’t work, but I can’t tell you what the answer is. I can certainly beat 9 miles per gallon, though. The question is: Do I want to beat it by a factor of two or a factor of three? GAZETTE: If the media coverage is correct and the Postal Service is going to replace 180,000 vehicles, is that big enough to make an impact on the tailpipe pollution that the country emits? LEE: Yes and no. The no is because you have these vehicles dispersed across the entire country, so that’s not going to make a big dent [in local air quality]. Where it can make a dent is if you are now manufacturing engines that are a lot more efficient for midsize and small-size trucks — small trucks and
Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks be Electric?
A hybrid basically, just takes care if idling does it not? The motive power is all ICE unless it is PiH. I don't mean to sniff at that, but just saying. I am in a mostly rural area, but rather dense, and I cannot imagine my carrier exceed the range of a Leaf for example. Here an EV might work nicely. When delivering in a more densely urban area the carrying capacity is likely to be an issue. Seems like USPS could have been pressing Multistop (or who ever it is) to make a more efficient, less polluting vehicle for some time now. Or they should start. I doubt this delivery of mail is too tough a nut to crack like this fellow Lee says it is. A $20,000 pack gets paid for in fuel costs with little trouble. All of them won't need that much storage. An EV could be potentially less trouble to own and operate. Certainly more pleasant for the operator. Mike On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 9:09 AM, Mike Nickerson via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Interesting story. I'm surprised that the story didn't mention hybrids. That seems like it would be ideal for postal delivery trucks. The energy from the frequent stops would be recaptured and could be used for acceleration. That is well developed technology for SUVs. Mike On March 19, 2015 2:17:13 AM MDT, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2015/03/greener-delivery/ Greener delivery? March 16, 2015 | By Alvin Powell [image / Jon Chase/Harvard Staff Photographer http://media.news.harvard.edu/gazette/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/031315_mail_truck_022_605.jpg (old usps ice) With the U.S. Postal Service poised to replace its mail trucks, which get 9 mpg, with more fuel-efficient models, the options can get complicated. For the biggest impact, improving the efficiency of truck engines, particularly small trucks, is the answer, contends Henry Lee, an authority on electric cars and the Jassim M. Jaidah Family Director of the Environment and Natural Resources Program at the Belfer Center ] Wider opportunities seen as Postal Service looks to improve on 9 miles per gallon The boxy mail truck familiar on American roads for more than two decades soon may be a thing of the past. The Postal Service is beginning the process of replacing some 180,000 of the trucks, a significant portion of its total fleet. The request for proposals sent to automakers in January carried several design considerations, including enhanced fuel efficiency, lower emissions, and enough space to allow workers to stand up in the back as they grab letters and boxes for delivery. The Gazette asked Henry Lee, an authority on electric cars and the Jassim M. Jaidah Family Director of the Environment and Natural Resources Program at the Belfer Center, about the opportunity for the Postal Service to improve its environmental footprint — and perhaps spark broader automotive changes — through a more fuel-efficient replacement for the current model, which gets roughly 9 miles per gallon. GAZETTE: How important should fuel efficiency be to the Postal Service’s consideration of a new vehicle? LEE: That’s a tough question to answer. From the perspective of someone concerned about the environment, they should be quite concerned. But if I was [head] of the Postal Service, I might say, “If society cares about this issue, they’ll put a price on carbon and that will change my thinking about what I’m going to buy. But if they won’t do it, why should the people who buy mail services and a company that’s multiple billions of dollars in the red pay more for something that government hasn’t told us it cares about?” GAZETTE: Would that higher initial cost be offset by lower operating cost? You take something that gets nine miles a gallon and get something that gets 25? LEE: I haven’t done the numbers, but you have to ask how many miles postal workers travel in a day. Not many, though they travel a long time and they keep the engine idling. They probably travel more in a day than they would be able to if this was an electric car. They’d probably run out of electricity. I haven’t done the analysis, but what if you went to natural gas? Or hydrogen? Certainly natural gas would be an option. GAZETTE: Not electricity, though, because of the number of hours they’re on the road? LEE: Well, you have to have a lot of batteries to move something that heavy. So if you need 30 to 34 batteries — lithium batteries — the cost of the vehicle would be $20,000 more, times 180,000, which is a pretty big number. The good news for electric vehicles is that they would all go back to the same garage in the evening, and you could put charging facilities in the garage quite easily. So charging won’t be a problem, which it might be if you or I bought the car. But you’d have to figure that it needs more batteries than a normal car. You really don’t want the vehicle to have to come back
Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks be Electric?
On Mar 19, 2015, at 9:56 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: So, not many [miles], but more in a day than they would be able to if this was an electric car. I also got the distinct impression that he thinks that idling an electric vehicle eats into available range. His stuff about the number of batteries was at least as bizarre, if not more so. Seems to me that there's a great potential for a publicity stunt. Find somebody who owns a Leaf to follow a mail truck for a day on a particularly long route. Fill the car up with sandbags equal to the weight of the mail. I'll bet a cup of coffee / mug of beer / other suitable beverage that the Leaf does just fine, even including the commute to and from the Post Office. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150319/e3794020/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks be Electric?
On 19 Mar 2015 at 10:26, Ben Goren via EV wrote: I also got the distinct impression that he thinks that idling an electric vehicle eats into available range. To be fair, it does - if, as is likely, the driver uses aircon in the summer or heat in the winter. I don't think that the postal vehicles in my area have aircon, but my mail carrier keeps the window open (for deliveries) and blasts the heater all winter long. That would be rough on an EV's range. A fuel-fired heater would be a practical answer for winter. Aircon might be a tougher problem. Over the years, the USPS has carried out several EV trials with small fleets in limited areas. I don't think they considered any of them successful. However, I'm pretty sure that all of them used lead batteries. I wonder if one of those programs might be where this guy got his odd 30 to 34 batteries idea. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks be Electric?
EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: A fuel-fired heater would be a practical answer for winter. Aircon might be a tougher problem. Over the years, the USPS has carried out several EV trials with small fleets in limited areas. I don't think they considered any of them successful. However, I'm pretty sure that all of them used lead batteries. I wonder if one of those programs might be where this guy got his odd 30 to 34 batteries idea. My father was a mail carrier. The Post Office lives in its own odd little world. They aren't looking for NEW solutions to their problems; they want ways to keep using their OLD solutions. Yes, there have been many postal EV trials. They were always imposed from the *outside*. The Post Office fought against them. The union in particular (NALC) was vehemently opposed to change. Workers went so far as to sabotage the EV trials, to make *sure* they failed. I had one of these postal EVs myself (a 1980 Commuter Vehicles ComutaVan). My father drove it, and said it works fine, but I'd never use it. Too different. We like what we got. It seemed to me that the whole system was set up to invite failure. First, the trials were forced from outside (by Congress). The post office didn't want the vehicles, so they wrote idiosyncratic requirement that discouraged companies from bidding. They are terrible judges of technology, and picked the companies to make the vehicles based on lobbying, who is in which congressman's district, who are we already buying vehicles from, etc. The companies often saw it as a pork-barrel project (a way to get government money for doing a bad job). The Union shop class types that service their ICE vehicles were gear heads that hated the whole idea of EVs. I wonder what would happen if Tesla took a page from Apple, and offered free trial EVs to the Post Office? Like Apple offering free computers to schools, free got them hooked. Then they went on to spend billions of dollars to buy more. Apple got all their money back, and a lot more! ;-) -- We cannot waste time. We can only waste ourselves. -- George Matthew Adams -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks be Electric?
To: ev@lists.evdl.org Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 20:06:48 + Subject: Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks be Electric? From: ev@lists.evdl.org Actually, the Nissan e-NV200 could be an option. Here, in Seattle, the USPS mostly uses minivans for delivery. (They have their stepvans for package delivery making separate routes.) I don't know if it has enough range for a full day or not. But, with a 20 minute quick charge during lunch, I'm sure it would. Range would be a big problem here, (I assume the driver has a routes of about 400km a day, and no charge time would be possible) but maybe as an inner city delivery company only then it would probably work. What would it take to get USPS to start replacing their 12mpg(*) -A miracle ? :-) UPS is one of the most stupid delivery company on earth, drivers are not alowed to have a phone so they can ask for directions.. AND not allowed to have GPS!!??! Well..Good luck with that in Sweden, our country is not made of square blocks. :-P it is common that they drive the daily 350 km with an insane bad aero truck just to find out that they cant find the way to the customer, the last 2km or so.. They sometimes print out the Googlemaps-route instead, for the poor stressed out driver to use,, I got packages with 5 different zoom levels taped to the boxes.. wow. The thing also have one of the lowest ratings I have ever seen on any company minivans with EVs? What would USPS driver acceptance be for a vehicle that is already well accepted by others? The driver is not the problem, they are in general good.. But it is an US-based company, and ruled by some very stubborn top dogs dictators without common sense. and without Ears? :-) I dont know if google translate will do a good job on the reviews, but it should be a good laugh to read and a hint about how to NOT run a delivery company! http://gulasidorna.eniro.se/f/ups-united-parcel-service-sweden-ab:3513033 http://translate.google.se/#sv/en/ / John ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
